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tv   The 11th Hour With Brian Williams  MSNBC  December 14, 2016 8:00pm-8:31pm PST

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the extraordinarily hardworking women and men of malawi teach us that lesson every day. we can all do more than we think we can. in malawi, a tired toddler who can walk never has the option of riding in a stroller. but their mothers will still sometimes carry them, or one of their big brothers or sisters will carry them. but most of the time the tired child who feels like he can't keep walking just has to keep walking. and with every step, that tired child learns the malawi lesson. we can all do more than we think we can. msnbc's live coverage continues into "the 11th hour" with brian williams. that's next. breaking news tonight, u.s. officials telling msnbc news that vladimir putin was first involved in the hacking of the
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u.s. election. lt u will the u.s. respond and how? we'll also get reaction tonight from the president-elect's transition team. "the 11th hour" begins now. and good evening to you from our headquarters once again here in new york. quoting u.s. intelligence officials, nbc news is reporting exclusively tonight that russian president vladimir putin was personally involved in his nation's covert campaign to interfere in the american presidential election. two senior officials say there is a, quote, high level of confidence that putin dictated how hacked information from democrats was leaked and deployed. this intel comes directly from diplomatic sources and spies working for american allies. quoting directly from the report, what began as a vendetta against hillary clinton morphed
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into a correction to show american politics and to split off key american allies by creating an image that other countries couldn't depend on the u.s. to be a credible global leader anymore, according to one official. moments ago we got reaction to this exclusive report from former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. on the air tonight with our own joy reed, he laid out what he thinks the obama white house should do now and why this matters to donald trump. >> one, declassify as much information as possible. that is in the president's power. the more facts we know before january 20th, the better. and two, he should endorse the idea that some members of congress have put out now for a bipartisan, independent commission, a 911-like commission to investigate this. by the way, i think president-elect trump himself has an interest in getting to the bottom of this, because if we don't, moving forward, every time he does some policy with
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respect to russia, critics are going to be saying that's because they stole the election for him. >> now, also tonight, the former independent presidential candidate, former cia operations officer evan mcmullen, issued a call to action, saying members of congress have to respond. >> this is what russia does to undermine democracies in europe. now they're doing it in the united states. it's the russian back trolls, it's the hacks, it's the support for the white supremacist movement. it's find ing a candidate in a country, in a democratic country like ours, who is sympathetic to the russian or putin way of his authoritarianism and white nationalism and all of this and promoting them through these other means. it's their playbook. we as americans need to stand up and demand that our elected leaders in congress, and we must do the same, hold our system accountable, our elected representatives accountable and
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oppose donald trump's planned alignment with russia. >> with us again this evening is our terrorism analyst, malcolm nance, a 35-year veteran of the trade including navy intelligence, special operations and homeland security. importantly, he is also the author of a very timely new book, the plot to hack america, how putin cyberspies and wikileaks tried to steal the 2016 election. malcolm, thanks for joining us again. i know you're on the road in raleigh, north carolina tonight. do you believe this? is it credible? and what should people know who are just now hearing about this putin vendetta against hillary clinton? >> it's absolutely credible, brian. there is a very long history between hillary clinton and vladimir putin. there was a very well-known exchange that took place a few years ago where vladimir putin actually insulted her and said that, you know, when she had made a comment about him being
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an authoritarian, he made a comment publicly that said, this is a reason why women shouldn't speak in public. and she came back and said, i know how to handle vladimir putin. i've been around elementary school children. and putin took great umbrage against this, among other statements that happened. vladimir putin absolutely, absolutely, is the only person in russia who could allow an intelligence operation of this magnitude to influence the u.s. elections. it had to be done at his direction. he is a former kgb officer. he was the director of the kgb when it transitioned to the fsb, the new name for the kgb. and he views the fsb and kgb officers as the new no bibility russia. they are the pinnacle of russian society. he uses them on a daily basis. we use cyber warfare from time
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to time, but they use it like they butter their bread. obviously with him feeling he could influence the u.s. election, feeling that donald trump was sympathetic to him, granted now we're starting to see the evidence roll in that i extrapolated in my book. i mean, it was very clear that he would have to form a massive, maybe two, three hundred people, together to do this type of operation. >> and so malcolm, there are those two ways of looking at this, that this was an anti-hillary electronic effort, or that plus an affirmative pro-trump effort. we do have a representative from the trump transition team, mr. scarimuchi, who after our first break is standing by to talk to us. what would you ask him tonight, and what correlarily would you want him to know about this trade? >> first off, it's very clear that the russians have not only been doing an anti-hillary operation, it was very
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pro-trump. the information -- by the time july 25th rolled around, the first day of the democratic committee, it became very clear that this was a scripted intelligence operation to where the information warfare teams of russia were watching the american electoral process very clearly and releasing data in si sync with the intended result. if i had to ask the trump administration anything, it would be this. why are they not allowing or believing the overall evidence that the u.s. intelligence community has that shows clearly that russia hacked this election, and only one side, the democratic party side, which means the benefit result would have been for the other side? why do they resist this? and when did they suddenly adopt russia's foreign policy? i would really like to know, you know, just when that transition occurred, because it is certainly against all u.s. defense policy for the last 70
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years, and now suddenly, we are mimicking russia's policy. these two things go hand in hand and that requires investigation. >> we asked you this last night. i'm going to go there again. why the sudden -- at very best, giving the benefit of the doubt to putin of russia and to putin and russia? >> the question is again? i'm sorry, brian. >> why this sudden benefit of the doubt to these former adversaries? >> i agree with you 100% there. why? when did we suddenly decide that an alliance with vladimir putin, a man who murders his own citizens, who is suspended in doing acts of terrorism that launched him into the presidency, blowing up apartment complexes in russia, who created -- who had a massive war that killed 100,000 people in chechnya, who slaughters
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civilians wantonly in syria. when did our values come in alliance with russia? when did we decide that nato, the most successful defense alliance in the world, had to be put on the table to placate russia? these policies of bedrock united states conservative policy. and, you know, this, of course, suddenly turned on its head, and there were people, many of whom are brave, honest patriots, who suddenly now espouse putin's party line. why did that occur? what did it occur? and what were the influences that made it occur? >> we will keep having you on, malcolm in answ malcolm nance. thank you for interrupting your business trip to have us on. we are joined now by a credible democrat who is second in line. among the democrats in the house select committee on intelligence. in other words, he's among the members of congress who share in the nation's secrets, especially
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where an intelligence breach is concerned. congressman, what do you think is going on here, and what do you think should be done about it? >> well, good evening, brian. look, there are things of profound concern going on that i would agree with malcolm should have all of us behind an independent investigatory commission here, something along the lines of 9/11. what is clear, and what everybody should be acknowledging, is that there was hacking of the election of organizations like the dnc, people surrounding the election. i think we will learn, as information comes out, that there were actually other entities and people that were subject to this hacking. it is a little less clear, and here i might be a little more cautious than malcolm was. it's a little less clear in our intelligence community about what the motives were. it's not surprising, quite frank lg, th frankly, that putin was involved, if that turns out to
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be true. hacki ining a superelection is kind of thing that gets on the top of the ladder. some of the opponents said, but it didn't influence the election, and that may be true. but nonetheless, we have very, very serious -- we have a very, very serious issue here that we need to out and get all the facts as a first step in making it very clear to the russians that we will get to the bottom of this and we will not tolerate it. >> what can be done at your level in the senate, in the house, congress as a whole, because it does seem that enough members of both parties are upset by this. >> yeah, and i applaud the courage of senators mccain and graham and, you know, the republican leader mitch mcconnell got on board. it's too bad that the trump organization, the president-elect, has not yet sort of acknowledged that this hacking occurred. that's of concern. but members of congress need to set aside whatever party
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concerns there are, and i've been to any number of rooms where the democrats were pushing really, really hard on this and the republicans were kind of soft-pedaling. we need to set that aside. the election is going to be done. we will have a new president. but we must get to the bottom of what just occurred, and we need to think softly of retribution. the russians understand the language of force. i'm not sure they understand a lot more than that, and i do think the president should take some actions before he leaves office to make it clear there will be costs to be paid for activity like this. and we also need to have a conversation about making sure we have the security everywhere so this doesn't happen again. oh, and by the way, you know, for decades if we're not in agreement with people like the russians and the chinese and the iranians and the north koreans about basic baseline things, international norms that you don't attack each other's critical infrastructure, you don't mess with each other's elections, we will continue to see this happen. there is a lot for us to do, brian. >> what a quaint idea that there
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are still norms in the world. it doesn't feel like it these days. i have an, oh, and by the way for you, congressman, and that is that this happened, after all, on the watch and during the presidency of barack obama. so what is the current president's responsibility, do you think, from the other end of pennsylvania avenue? >> well, for the next four or five weeks, of course, he is president of the united states and commander in chief. and that means that whatever retribution is meted out to the russians, and i do think that's important, and i believe a lot of my colleagues think it's important. in fact, my colleagues have been upset with the white house it didn't come sooner. they have other things i've acknowledged, but punishment that is not swift doesn't have quite the effect as punishment that is. so the commander in chief really owes it to smack these guys on the nose. again, you know, the bhaehaviorf
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the russians is such that unless they pay a pretty significant cost, they're going to think they can get away with it and that's not a good outcome for us. >> i have heard it argued, however, be careful who you smack around because they have such a debreach and have proven their availability. do you ever any reservations about that? >> at the end of the day, i can say with great confidence, the russians are good, the chinese are good at cyberwarfare. we are better. so we want to be careful, and i think the white house was cautious not to let this escalate into something that got out of control, particularly right around an election. but if the russians think going tit for tat for us was going to result in a good outcome, they should rethink that. this is why, again, we can sit down with our adversaries. we have laws of war. we have rules we follow even when we don't like you, because things like critical infrastructure, hospitals, other things we say are off limits, that's the kind of conversation we should have with the russians, because, again, if for
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no other reason, we're better at this than they are. >> i was going to say except in aleppo, syria, apparently. thank you so much for joining us. and talking about this tonight, we'll have you back. coming up after a break, we will get reaction to tonight's news and what the congressman just said from the president-elect's transition team live here in our studio when we come back, when "the 11th hour" continues. the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.
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with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. my goal is to put on president trump's desk crippling sanctions based on the fact they interfered in our elections,
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they're trying to destroy democratic movements all over the world, they've been chief benefactor, and every country needs to understand if we don't stand together as a nation, you will be next. you don't have to be smart to understand what russia is up to. here's what i would tell mr. trump to do. tell everybody, including me, why we're wrong. be specific. >> that's where we'll start. we have with us a member of mr. trump's transition team. mr. scaramuchi previously raised money for a number of fellow republicans, romney and bush and walker. and i want to start by getting your reaction to this story, and what he just said, senator graham, as you know, is partner to senator mccain in the senate. they're both energized on this. tell me why we're wrong. >> i don't think anybody thinks
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you're wrong, i think our position right now is that we're waiting for a little bit more information. i don't think there is anybody on the 14th floor of trump tower or the 26th floor where the president-elect sits that thinks this is a sanction thing to do. in fact, we find it reprehensible. we reject the notion that people will cyberattack our institutions, our democratic institutions, the dnc or other places. we've totally rejected corporate cyberpiracy and so forth. one of the things that happened today, brian, at trump tower, we had a collection of the tech billionaires, if you will, founders and so forth, ceos, talking about this very issue. i think it will be no surprise to your viewers or yourself that we're also super aware that isis, and the instrumentation that isis is using of the internet to recruit people, to create crime, to communicate with each other about crime and terrorism. so we're super wary of that. what i'm noticing from the media, and it's no offense to
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anybody, just pointing it out, is that people seem to think we're not upset about it. we're very upset about it, but i think the president-elect is working on his cabinet and wants to get the total facts down before he responds. >> i understand that. why did the president-elect come out of the box this past weekend and make a statement that called into question the intelligence of the u.s. intelligence gathering agencies? >> well, i think he's been frustrated. you talk to him personally, i think he's been frustrated by some of the intelligence stuff that has happened in the past, the weapons of mass destruction, the underestimation of isis which caught president obama saying that isis was a j. v. team. and i think as he's calibrating his intelligence and his sourcing on the intelligence and people he's speaking to, he has a cynical eye towards this stuff. so my guess is that we're ramping up now. you're going to see much more
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exciting appointments to come. i know that our cia designee, along with general flynn who i sit right across from at trump tower, are working alongside the president in terms of briefing him more regularly, and i think you're going to hear information from him. i think the meeting today also was very eye opening about some of the things that we can do to stop cyberpiracy and cyberterrorism. i think one of the best things that came out for the american people today were there were a lot of people, brian, that were supporting hillary clinton, but they recognize it's time to unify for the country and everyone pull together. we can work on a lot of different things. technological spending, infrastructure spending, and we can bring the country together on a lot of these issues. so i'm listening to the show before i came on, and nobody is disagreeing that if vladimir putin was involved in this, the president-elect, rex tillerson, general flynn, you pick the person that we've designated in the administration, they're not
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going to be happy about it. >> so maybe mr. trump is a skeptic about the incoming intel. he must recognize there are 17 agencies. we don't have any other vendors. these guys supply these men and women, some of them their lives are at stake as we speak, supply the raw information that go into your administration. he realizes, he must, that he can say, show me the intel. bring them all in. >> yeah. and so the -- listen, first of all, the president-elect respects these guys. down at the army-navy game last weekend, congressman pompayo was there with him. he has an enormous respect for the naval and the central intelligence agency. i want to make that clear. we're four and a half, five weeks into the post election season, into the transition, and we've had a very orderly process to pick the cabinet and pick the staff. and i think it would be fair to give him a little bit of time to digest this information, brian,
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and then let him come out with a declaretive statement as it relates to it. i've known senator graham for a long time, senator mccain i have a great relationship with. i understand what they're saying. we're trying to figure out exactly how to measure their response. >> we have 50 seconds left. this is not to criticize vladimir putin. >> believe me, and i use the trump words "believe me." he will criticize vladimir putin if vladimir putin deserves to be criticized. give him a little bit of time. he's picking his cabinet. he wants to digest the information, and i understand the answer will be pleasing to the american public. >> thank you for coming by. a break for us when we come
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back. good news when it comes to the u.s. economy. this is the "the 11th hour." esurance does insurance a smarter way, which saves money. like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces red tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call.
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lest we forget the season, the tree outside of the stock exchange, and tonight there are continuing signs, as we mentioned, of a strengthening economy for just the second time in a decade, the fed announced an interest rate hike to the tune of a quarter point.
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after years of historic lows, economic experts are calling this hike a vote of confidence in the u.s. economy. the branch of the fed who makes these decisions anticipates more rate hikes to come, though it sometimes is like predicting the weather. they anticipate three in '17, two or three in 2018, three in 2019. we'll see. the last hike was almost a year ago to the day. the stock market reacted calmly to this news, the dow closing almost 119 points down. but if you've been following, you know the index is still close to a major milestone. it's close to reaching 20,000 for the first time in history. on the job market, the fed expects the job market to continue to grow stronger. unemployment, a reminder now, stands at 4.6%. to the news that dominated our broadcast tonight, don't forget this development. the accusation, the report that putin was personally involved in
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the use of this stolen data or messed-with data is an nbc news story. after all, there will be more on "morning joe," more on "today" and on this network all day tomorrow. for this for now, this is our broadcast. thank you for being with us. "hardball" with chris matthews begins now. trump's war. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we're just weeks away from donald trump being sworn in as our 45th president of the united states. as he enters the oval office for the first time, trump will immediately face a series of urgent international crises. and nothing is more pressing or more devastating than the conflict in syria. there are scenes there of utter devastation coming from


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