tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 1, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PST
arguing for them to be dismissed. >> those guys are loud. i'm alex >> a very loud "morning joe" starting right now. ♪ ♪ follow me follow me ♪ >> it's wednesday, february 1st. >> look at this! >> we are back to basics on "morning joe" on the set. we have the coauthors of "game change" political analyst mark halpern and john heilemann. >> wee! >> heilemann is checking out his glasses. >> my tie is not straight. >> who is that in those glasses? >> i really don't want to know. >> on capitol hill, can you imagine if we about -- did that? kasie hunt is also with us on
capitol hill. it was like "the bachelor." i liked it in terms of a rollout. >> very interesting. we have been talking about the chaos. but very interesting that the second he walked up to the microphone, you could tell he was in his element. i have theories that president is are great at something and some not terrific at other things. trump is good one-on-one. last night, he is up there. you can tell he is very relaxed. >> this is what he does. >> he hit it out of park politically, especially with conservatives this morning. my god. >> i loved doing this, you could tell. it looked like he could have been a reagan or a bush in terms of the staging of it. in terms of the guy he chose. he chose a guy with impeccable legal credentials and he celebrate him for that. so for all of the unorthodoxed thing donald trump has already done as president, this could
not have been a more standard republican pick, saying this guy is like scalia, but you look at his resume and his demeanor and the way he was rolled out and it could not have been more standard and more powerful for the politics of the republican party, whether he gets confirmed or not is another issue. >> also more powerful for middle america as far as looking at their president. now, a lot of stuff going on over the weekend. a lot of people walking past their tv sets seeing protests. but last night, willie, 8:00, when he announced this all along, i could tell you, mys house, i called my daughter down, kate who is 13. i said come on down, let's watch this because whoever he picks is going to be at the supreme court when you're 40 years old. let's watch this. and i expect the numbers will be pretty huge. and, again, the second he walked up to that microphone you're like, oh, wow. he looks comfortable. looks like he has been there for a very long time. >> yeah. as disastrous and amateurish as
the rollout of the executive order was this was good and professional. i mean, this was well done. and for republicans and conservatives who have gotten a little queasy the last two weeks, boy, did this bring them together last night. you couldn't find a conservative either in that room which became sort of a spin room afterwards. senators across the board. two leading conservatives and the media leading intellectuals all across the board and thrilled and energized by this pick. >> mika, even networks that have been openly hostile toward him, talking about how this was extremely successful rollout. >> well, i think it was in a sweet spot. it was really -- this is what he does. he likes to create drama. he likes to do the big reveal. he likes to have people waiting until the very last second. and on every level, including the fact that it was really organized and well produced, and had sort of a wonderful flare to it that was, you know, extremely
high-end so to speak, this was donald trump doing what he knows how to do, which is an event. i remember when we went to new hampshire in the primary and he wanted us to see back stage how his events went. i was like this is all incredible compared to -- >> he said this is a tv producer. this is somebody who understands how to put this stuff together which, again, completely opposite of what we have been talking about on this show the past several days. >> staging. >> yeah. the staging, like we had, was horrific earlier. on the steven miller stuff. >> because things like government got in the way. >> in this case, though, i was talking to the white house yesterday. not really pleasant phone calls, but picked up in my reporting that the president and others said we are going to do this at a very organized, meticulous way. and what happened over the weekend is not going to happen
again. >> we will see about that. >> yeah, we will see about that. >> look. this should have been -- again, not to take anything away from it. he put on a list in the campaign of people he would consider. it was a very mainstream conservative list in order to reassure republicans who weren't sure about his ideological credentials he stuck with that. he had a list and had a long time to think about this. it shodn't be that hard given it's in your control. in the white house you're able to do it. it was executed flawlessly and totally agree with that. the key element here he picked someone who any of the other 16 republicans who ran for president would have been on their short list too. this guy, for all of the abnormal elements of donald j. trump as president, this was a normal pick within the republican -- >> as you know, more than any other issue, for most of the people voting in the republican primary, i'm one of them, it's about the supreme court. >> sure. >> there is a recognition.
>> so there are the never-trumpers, few less never-trumpers this morning. and some even going into middle territory. because, again, for people that don't realize this, i mean, it's this way for liberals as well, but for conservatives, willie, this is what matters most to them. >> i was talking to somebody last night a conservative who said almost exactly that. they said people ask me how could you vote for donald trump? i said why did i hold my nose and vote for donald trump? for this moment tonight. for what happened right there. for me it was all about the supreme court. if hillary clinton had been president this would have been a completely different court given this will be a swing vote. >> the thing is you have now kennedy, who, after seeing this pick, may decide to retire over the next four years. you also have a couple of democrats who are older. i don't know. they may decide to get off the
court. there is, though, also the opportunity, clarence thomas mae decide to get off the court. there is a chance that the president may select two to three more supreme court justices over the next three years. which would fundamentally change the nature of the court. >> now let's take a look at this. judge neil gorsuch of boulder, colorado, is donald trump' chce for supreme court. on the tenth circuit of appeals was nominated by george h.w. bush and approved by a voice vote in 2006. his highest profile ruling is for groups claim that obamacare deliberated their religious ruling. he is considered a jong write wi -- strong writer. political commentators across the spectrum noted that the rollout was choreographed and a political success.
and president trump cast the nomination as keeping a campaign promise. >> months ago, as a candidate, i publicly presented a list of brilliant and accomplished people to the america elect t. e they said the single most important issue for them when they voted for me for president. i am a man of my word. i will do as i say. something that the american people have been asking for from washington for a very, very long time. >> our legal order, it is for congress and not the courts to write new laws. it is a rule of judges to apply, not alter, the work of the people's representatives. a judge who likes every outcome he reaches is very likely a bad
judge. stretching for results he prefers rather than those the law demands. >> conservatives applauded the pick but he also has the support of former solicit general says judge gorsuch is one of the most thoughtful and brilliant judges to have served our nation over the last century. i strongly support his nomination to distort. >> -- supreme court. >> we have opposition from him. >> we are hearing chuck schumer say you need 60 votes. you look at what is out there. you've got democrats. how many democrats that are going to be running in 2018 from states that won easily for trump? >> exact number they need to break a filibuster. >> yeah. something like heidi will not
decide will -- >> i think that is the question. >> we will see how she answers that. there is going to be a battle. talk more about this guy. he actually. he clerked for byron white and also kennedy. two moderate republicans, kennedy especially, causing consternation for the republican ranks for breaking against them on abortion rights. >> his mother was a senior official in the reagan administration and his pedigree presidency is first-rate. this is not a breitbart pick. >> not at all. by the way, pryor would have been a breitbart pick and that would have been total war fare. >> that's right. >> the way this weekend looked, i thought they were going for him because i thought they wanted to be in a state of war at all times. this was at complete option direction. >> look. i think there is two big things
to say about it. one we have said this is an establishment pick that unites the republican party on capitol hill and around the country and fulfillment of a trump promise. his name on the list and he's in the mold of scalia but not nelve nearly as conservative. i believe now this is an open question whether the democrats can hold together the pressure from the democratic base on any democrat is going to be huge and up to mitchell mcconnell how to haneled th handle that. >> tom perez who is running for dnc chair released a scathing statement calling for democrats to block the nomination. quote. we need to afford donald trump. here we go. the same level of cooperation mitch mcconnell afforded
president obama and starts with making sure that judge gorsuch never sits on the supreme court. that sentiment echoed by jeff merkley who calls the stet stol seat stolen and being filled by an illegitimate and extremely nominee. >> quote, skeptical he can be a strong independent justice. he also set up a procedural fight saying the senate must insist upon 60 votes for any supreme court nominee. a bar that was met by each of president obama's nominees. that would mean senate republicans need eight democratic votes to overcome a filibuster unless they vote the nuclear option of a mere majority. senate judiciary chairman chuck
grassley saying gorsuch is respected sproacross the spectr including a mainstream judge. some were in the audience last night at the white house where lindsey graham could not rule out the prospect of going nuclear. >> it would be sad to me if we have to go that route with a man like this. but he is going to get confirmed. you know, i've took a lot of crap voting for obama's judges. i thought they were qualified. i've tried to be fair to everybody as the best i know how to be. i didn't think garland should have been picked in the last year of obama's term. after we had started the primary process. this president won. he deserves the right to pick qualified people. and this is one of the most qualified people i've ever met. >> kasie hunt, how ugly is the fight going to be on capitol hill? >> i think it's going to be a tough spot for democrats, quite frankly. there is always bad blood with what happened to merrick garland but leaders were prepared to say
you know what? we want to fight another day. this is not an inflammatory pick. this is not outside of the establishment mainstream. but chuck schumer had protesters outside of his house last night in brooklyn urging him to try to block this. i think that shows you the pressure that they are suddenly under from their base and it's not really necessarily related directly to this issue. it's about the executive order over the weekend. i cannot tell you how much that turned up the temperature on capitol hill. last week, before that order came out, they were talking still about, okay, well, we are not going to oppose everything because it has donald trump's name on it. it is a much different environment up there and it's going to make chuck schumer's life pretty hard, i think. >> so john heilemann, mika mentioned the voice vote that got gorsuch on the federal
appeals court in 2006 chuck schumer and party leahy and ron widen and hillary clinton and barack obama and john kerry and voting for judge gorsuch. >> president obama was a classmate of judge gorsuch. >> really? >> another one of the establishment dominating our court and politics in a lot of ways. >> can i say how many alabama graduates arinupreme court? >> a lot. >> because we dominate. >> you'll be the first. >> i will. >> after harvard law school, the university of alabama law school is number two. >> there are people from harvard law school and yale law school. >> that is great! >> you do have harvard. >> and connecticut and massachusetts. >> the fact is unanimous
approval to the court of appeals it makes it harder for democrats to have a filibuster. it is the case now in one of the many ways in which our politics are different now in the realm of an era of trump is that this -- everything is going to be a war for a while. the truth is republicans did bring it on themselves. to some extent. not donald trump but the republican party by not having giving merrick garland a vote. there are just as powerful as republicans care about supreme court and democrats care about it equally. such sense of scarredness on the part of democrats who feel as though the seat was stolen from barack obama and there are many -- yes, garland was as much -- incredibly mainstream and as moderate a justice as obama could have ever picked. people are -- even if trump hadn't become the president, another republican, democrats would have wanted to exact some retribution on republicans for
this pick. >> there is that on the republicans that would make the democrats have their backs up a little bit. joe, do you think the temperatures would be this high if this were a week ago and the executive order had not happened and the protests had not happened? >> i understand what kasie is saying and i understand the temperature is high, all right? you know what? it's kind of like, willie, with alabama when they play auburn or harvard plays yale. they say you can although all of the record books out. in this case, it doesn't matter what happened before. i understand what kasie is saying and it's red hot on capitol hill but whenever you brina supremeourthoice to the hill, everythg that preceded it gets wiped away. that is the ball game for both bases. and contacts really is everything. i will tell you this. if i were a republican senator
and from a conservative state like the liberal senators from a liberty cal state, and if a democratic senate had stopped a republican from selecting a supreme court justice for the last years, and i could do it, i would go to the senate floor and i would say hell will freeze. hell will freeze over before i do anything that is going to allow this to move forward. yes, you're going to be able to pass him. but you're going to do it -- you're going to have to tear up the rules of this senate and i'm going to be fighting every step of the way. that's how progressives feel and chuck schumer's life is a lot more difficult. actually, the interesting thing is in a strange way, what has happened the past three or four days makes chuck schumer's life n more difficult and not donald trump's on this issue because the left has been so energized.
conservatives would say radicalized, that it's going to be impossible for democrats even in red states to support this guy without exacting -- having retribution against them. >> well, look. for the younger viewers. supreme court politics is different now the last couple of decade and you mentioned the blocking of garland. harry reid changing the rules for confirmation for other offices and loring the threshold to 50. >> other federal judges down to 50. >> the pressure on those democrats to break the filibust filibuster. because of what happened the last weekend, extraordinary pressure not just on chuck schumer but the red state democratic senators to hold the line andupport a filibuster. it's interesting to see how the president and his allies can pressure those same people and as chuck todd mentioned last night. you can't underestimate this. when this nominee does his one-on-one meetings with democratic senators i think he is going to be very persuasive. >> what you also can't understand is it has to do with
his moderate temperament. >> yes. >> john roberts, dazzled everybody on the hill. i also thought it was very interesting when he was going through his. you could just see -- i mean, barack obama said he wanted to support him but david axelrod said you can't support him because he will be used against you. >> to add to the point about the fact the whole circumstance what happened over the weekend has made chuck schumer's life more difficult, i think the end game here is this is all going to make mitch mcconnell's life more difficult. my guess he won't get to 60 votes and that mcconnell is now going to be faced with a choice of whether to change the rules and i don't think republicans want to change the rules but i think they will maybe have to change the rules for get this done. >> he doesn't want to. but he'll do it in a second if that is the difference between -- like the democrats figure out a way to pass obamacare with 50 votes.
it's that big for republicans. >> reporter: i do think it is that big but i think mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer actually do want to fix the senate. i think they actually do want to change how things have been, so calcified and so divided. i think there was a little bit of faith there before, you know, this executive order, before kind of the democratic base lit up. i think the two of them had the sense, chuck schumer might be willing to say, okay, we are going with the president here and mitch mcconnell would not be forced into a situation. he is an institutionalist at heart and not forced to change the rules. i think you're right, now, though. the focus on those. there are ten trump state democrats, eight, what we traditionally call red state democrats, who are going to be the focus of this fight. it's going to be a combination of mitch mcconnell convincing them and chuck schumer letting them and realizing i understand your political calculus here and i'm willing to pay the price for
my base for it. >> let's talk about, willie, another way that this is actually difficult -- i can't believe we are saying it -- but just politically true. difficult for chuck schumer. heidi heitkamp says donald trump won my state by 30 points so i have to go with him. i have all of these people on the left that are going to challenge me in a primary if i support him. which means -- >> and not give me money. >> and not give me money. which means for chuck schumer, he loses another state. you're going to lose another senator. these eight senators from red, red states, i think at the end of the -- they can play this out and progressive groups on the left, which have every right to pressure heidi heitkamp and others. you play this out. chuck schumer at the end of the day has to give them all a pass because -- you're saying no? >> i don't believe that. i think that hangs in the balance. because the energy in the party -- >> but, mark, what is the
alternative is in the alternative, if you play to its logical conclusion, the alternative is heidi heitkamp is not supported and then they lose that state to the republicans. are they going to lose eight more states to the republicans? >> i think the step has to occur for you to be right can the president and his allies in these states put such pressure that the public demands confirmation? i don't think they are there yet automatically because heidi heitkamp might have to get to a primary and has to raise money. >> let's take joe manchin. >> who is on today. >> right. >> i think -- >> still, just like in heidi heitkamp's state, donald trump won west virginia but, what, 40, 45 points? he doesn't need a whole lot of persuadi here. right? because -- it doesn't matter what liberal interest groups do. same thing with heidi heitkamp and other democrats from trump states where he won by 10, 20, 30 points. >> heidi heitkamp will go into re-election having opposed donald trump on so many things,
right? this is an important issue to a lot of conservatives but the voters who will decide whether she wins or loses she is going to go into re-election having opposed him to a ton of stuff. the white house needs to make this an issue she can't afford to vote against the nominee and i don't know -- i think they can get there with a lot of them. but i don't know that they can get there with all of them because the countervailing pressure so hard. in part -- >> where will the countervailing pressure come from? >> the primary. a threat that democratic donors will not give her any money. she will need a lot of money. >> my point is it's all from out of state. i can tell you when you're in state and the area code comes up to your telephone and people from your own state saying you better support this choice. that trump calls from washington, d.c. special interest groups. >> totally agree. first of all, donors matter a lot from outside of the state. the other thing is every one of these states have a big, liberal
base. believe me she is going to hear from liberals in her face and 2,000 people marched in anchorage, alaska, women had -- >> i'm talking about chuck schumer's state of mind. played john to its logical conclusion. you then have a liberal running in the dakotas. >> right. >> and you dozen -- lose the seat. >> i think schumer has to probably let the democrats have free vote. i just don't know that for the reasons mark is saying, i don't know that they are going to end up for their own calculation when they are hearing from -- from liberals in their sta and looking at how they are able to raise money and facing the prospect of being primaried. schumer says you have to do what you have to do for your politics, heidi. she has to say i have to be against him because the liberals in my state and donor base is so
inflamed i have to take the anti-trump posture. she may come to that conclusion. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the question we have now is when is a travel ban not a travel ban? what we are going to do is have sean spicer debate sean spicer. we will get the answer. our guests this morning will include new york city mayor bill de blasio and senators joe manchin and dick durbin. we will be right back. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company.
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three hours later -- >> president trump postponed plans to revan vamp the federal government's cybersecurity systems. the white house announced the delay on the order yesterday. sources tell "morning joe" that the president and his communications team urged to slow down so the executive order could be fully vetted following the botched rollout of the extreme vetting executive order. >> stop there for a second. very interesting.
the growing pains of every white house, we have talked about bill clinton. it took him two years to stop the chaos of everybody coming in and talking to him. i remember reading, you know, remember conventional wisdom in "newsweek" up and down? i remember in '94 them talking about amateur hour. when did gergin come in? >> urgh! >> suddenly, all of the people crowding around the president nonstop and making a chaotic stop, it sounds like from -- again, the nerous one calls, some of them very heated yesterday, we had them with the white house, that, yesterday morning, at least the message for the rollout last night. >> right. >> and for this executive order, the president, himself, said let's slow down. >> he doesn't like bad reviews. he was getting bad reviews
for -- some on the substance but also on the theatrics. >> for people who don't remember and a lot of young people watching the show, kids all over the world will, willie. 87 million in armed forces radio as we have said for eight years. when you had general colin powell coming out and all of the other generals attacking you, people forget how bad -- >> and democrats. >> and democrats and how chaotic bill clinton's first year was. >> the president is frustrated when he can't get his nominees confirmed. it's hard to get things done. there is the element to the clinton administration this attitude we are doing things differently and we don't care if washington is harping how we are doing it because we are doing things differently. an element of that is positive but the basic tackling of press
releases and surrogates and good coverage. and we have seen with the supreme court rollout them clearly learning the lesson you can do what you want to do but it helps if you're getting good reviews for it. >> the substance could be right but if you don't roll it out right, it makes it a lot more chaotic. >> he wants to work at a fast pace. >> on slowing down the executive order yesterday and also on the announcement last night, suggests that there is that understanding. >> well, yeah. look. >> again, for a day. >> yes. the reality is -- >> see what tomorrow is. >> the reality is even -- you could say from a fair and neutral way that the white house staff that donald trump has put in is the least experienced white house staff any of our lifetimes, right? >> yes. >> people said beforehand this could be a problem just in terms of executing whatever his objectives are. the problem with the thing that happened over the weekend with the travel ban was that it's an
inflammatory piece of policy. when you have that that is one thing but when you have both -- >> i have to debate how inflammatory it would have been if rolled out correctly. general kelly initially came out and said these are the seven countries that barack obama's administration and bipartisan congress said were the seven most dangerous -- >> campaign promise we made? >> because this -- >> it would have been tough. >> actually -- >> it would have been tough. >> actually, and also if you had people say, yes, he talked about a muslim ban last december on "morning joe" for the first time. this isn't even a muslim ban. what sean spicer got to the end is what they should have said at the beginning this is not a ban. we are doing what barack obama did with iraq for six months and we are doing it for three months from the seven countries that barack obama chose. it's inflammatory if you think donald trump, what donald trump campaigned for a year on was
inflammatory. >> as many people do. >> as many people do. but, again, who would have been able to criticize the roleout if kelly had done all of that -- >> the problem they explained the content and intent of it as responses to criticism. >> after, right. >> rather than going in as a framework to help explain it. i think for the real big problem, too, besides the substance but the rollout was not consulting generals mattis, you know, kelly. going down the line and having stories come out over two days that say these guys were not happy, this is your mulligan and if it happens again i roy waywa. >> we will have immigration lawyers and officials at these airports to make sure no mistakes and aren't these stories of translators and young children. >> which is more than -- >> if you had not had people with green cards swept up in the thing from the beginning. if the thing had been substanley different and explained well they -- >> here is an example, mika, on the green card.
>> yeah. >> thing, especially, where you can see the confusion where general kelly's staff said this excludes green cards and then steven miller, overnight, changed that to say green cards were going to be taken away. then general kelly came back the next day and dhs said, no, green cards are not going to be taken away. so, again, i think all of that, just as we were talking about before, like a lot of incoming administrations, the clinton administration, all of that put that under lessons learned and we will see if what happened yesterday is projected forward. >> he also wouldn't have the press secretary debate is himself on it. the trump administration worked hard to rebrand it. saying it's not a travel ban. it comes after weeks of campaigning and public comments by administration officials and the president, himself, referring to it as a ban. >> first of all, it's not a travel ban. >> we are going to have a very, very strict ban. >> it can't be a ban. >> it's a 90-day ban.
it's not a travel ban. the ban deals with seven countries. there is by nature not a ban. >> this is a ban on travel. >> that's not a ban. >> president trump said yesterday it's the ban we are announced one week notice the bad rush for our country during that week. he says it's a ban. >> at the end of the day it can't -- hold on hold on! >> more people would have flooded into the country in a short amount of time to take advantage before the ban went into effect. i'm not confused. i think the words that are being used to describe it are derived from what the media is calling this. >> that, willie -- >> that's a problem. >> -- is why you have a communication plan beforehand whicis actually what iear is why yesterday's executive ord was scrubbed because they wanted to have the communication plan down first before they put it out. you do that in proper order, that doesn't happen. that is great for the white house to see. great for any senator's office to see and any congressman's office to see. get the communication down
first, and then release it. >> in researching it, joe, you may realize you don't want to do it. you may realize that actually some other things need to happen first before you do something like that. you might put it off. and think it out better and executive it in a completely different way. >> actually -- >> so people aren't left at airports and protests don't erupt over the country and perhaps safe zones or something else that is an alternative before you have a ban. that you call a ban. >> which is what i'm saying is it's a good thing that they looked at this, and then, willie, slowed down and didn't do the executive order on cybersecurity. >> that piece of tape is extraordinary. they need to be reminded we record our shows and keep copies of our newspapers. things you will say will be held against you in a court of law. >> keep in mind if your boss, the president of the united states, is using certain language you have to stay lined up with the boss. if the boss is calling it's a ban, it's a ban. >> one final thing, too.
which, mark, yesterday, i read off texts and messages that i got from -- i reached out to 12, 13, 14 people. and, again, to sum it up, they were not happy with what trump was doing. they were delirious. i have yet to talk to somebody who voted for donald trump not in government that isn't thrilled with how the last ten, 11, 12 days go, despite the fact we have all been shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. >> can't he succeed if he gets bad coverage in the mainstream media? on some issues, yes. but on most issues, no. his supporters love when he is attacked in the mainstream by -- if he wants to get democratic votes on health care and democratic votes on infrastructure, democratic votes on tax reform he need to
emphasize the two things, jobs and safety. this rollout of the executive order if the coverage had not been about chaos and errors and mistreating people but been about safety, it could have been considered a success. >> i think there is huge fundamental problem with it. president obama made promises and one he couldn't fill, gitmo, because he couldn't do it. when you get in there and you see everything, you actually look at it methodically you make decisions that change. >> actually, it's a lot easier running for president than being president. >> coming up, "the new york times" columnist frank bruni joins us for the must-read opinion pages and plus, reverend al sharpton, whose national network is weighing in on two of president trump as nominees. >> al, are you supporting him? >> "morning joe" is coming right back.
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that's how you do it, right? >> exactly. still ahead this morning, senator joe manchin is asking his fellow democrats to put politics aside when it comes to president trump's supreme court pick. the west virginia democrat joins us in our 7:00 hour. we will be right back with reverend al sharpton and frank bruni.
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oh, look at that. >> that is gorgeous. >> gorgeous sunrise over washington, d.c.! joining us now is "the new york times" columnist frank bruni and host of msnbc's politics nation. president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> so, al, what two nominees are you going to be supporting for donald trump? is that what you're hear to talk about? >> be nice. >> the sessions back to alabama where i was night before last and going back to michigan. >> those are the two nominees you're focused on the most? >> absolutely. when the look at voting rights and the fact that senator sessions has said the voting rights act was an intrusion and his record on voting rights, his record on other issues of concern to civil rights, when you look at devos who absolutely has been a won that has been critical of public education. how can you put them over these agencies? >> that is curious.
i understand your concerns about sessions. but devos has been a champion of actually giving disadvantaged children the same opportunities and choice in education, has she not, of the wealthiest? >> no. >> it's about charter schools and vouchers and the sort of things that go on in harlem. >> she has been support in giving a select few of the disadvantaged. you cannot have child in schools and vouchers for everyone. to put her over public schools, when you're talking about -- of disadvantaged kids a voucher. a -- >> i'm sure -- >> what are you going to do with the others that didn't get a voucher? >> i don't want to make is a debate will education choice. look in new york city and harl, the people that are fighting to keep it a sliver are the liberals. >> no. >> who tighten the acceptance
into these schools so much that they have to have a lottery. >> but you're putting her over the public school systems of everyone. now you have someone who devoted pulling th -- advocated pulling them all out. now you're out and i have to be in charge of everybody. >> do not ignore that is one of the disastrous confirmation hearings i've ever seen in my lifetime and i think it raises fundamental questions, regardless of hess philosophy, whether she is qualified to run this demt. this is not the most important federal department and most education policy implementation happens on the local level. but she came across as a rank amateur in this confirmation hearings and i think big concerns about that. >> if that is your argument, a that is a legitimate argument. >> it's my argument. >> if it's ideology regarding public education in schools, that was my point. but i think really even people inside the trump administration will admit off the record that devos had a disastrous hearing.
>> yeah. they have said that off the record to various media outlets. i think most people agree that the public school system needs some kind of disruption. >> no doubt about it. >> the question is do you agree that we have to disrupt and she is not the right person to do it? what about her worries you specifically? >> i agree we have to disrupt. i toured, at the request. president obama, the country with newt gingrich. no question we need change. but you can't have her clearly who has raised really serious questions of qualifications and who has advocated a policy that does not deal with the broad needs of all of the public school children. that es what i'm sayin she is not the right person. disrt, yes. but not disrupt with anyone that you want to put in there and has not shown the ability to educate and the compassion and the desire to educate the full body of public school children in the country. >> you also have to look at the scale of the disruption.
joe, you mentioned harlem and you're talking about the success academies. >> yeah. >> they are phenomenal. that is not true of every charter school. >> right. >> there are charters that are publicly run and charters privately run. if you listen to her she would have everybody in a charter school or private school using a vouch ir. that sort of scale is not borne out by the evidence in terms of results opinion and when she was asked point blank again and again by tim kaine whether the charter and private schools should be held equally accountable to public schools she would not answer the question and finally said no. that is kind of a scary answer. >> that is why there is a lot of concern that we have on where the supreme court goes because a lot of these issues are going to be legally challenged. >> if he picks eva moskowitz, would you agree with her? >> i don't think she would do better. >> you don't think she would do
better? she would -- >> she was approached. >> oh, no. >> i'm just saying, how she would fare at the hearings. >> you need someone over public education as a fundamentally in public education for everyone. one. secondly, that can show that, yes, i will disrupt the system, but i will disrupt it to give everyone equal education. not saying we are going to take out the talented and the gifted, and the rest of them -- >> would you consider supporting a nominee not endorsed by the teachers unions? >> oh, yeah. absolutely. >> okay. >> the teachers union was not in love with me touring with newt gingrich. they weren't in love with arnie duncan and president obama. i'm not afraid to go up against the teachers union. what i am afraid of saying the 95% of my community, the rest of you just forget about it and you won't get a good education, you'll get a voucher. i would have been at 95% if i
went to public school. >> i end with a must read. the travel ban which clearly turned up the base but also the opposition, possibly unnecessarily, had it been thought out. here is a point from "the wall street journal" which is a good one. obama's refuge legacy. mr. obama couldn't wait until he finished his post-installer vacation before he had a spokesman issue a statement monday afternoon reporting that the former president is heartened by the level of engagement taking place in communities around the country against president trump's refuge order. syrian refuges became a global crisis, in large part, because mr. obama did almost nothing for five years as president to stop the civil war, much less help refuges. we oppose mr. trump's refuge order but it takes a special kind of gall for mr. obama and his advisers like susan rice to lecture anyone about "american values" and refuges from chaos in the middle east. >> this is, frank.
>> ouch. >> there is fair points in there. >> real fair points. this is our rwanda. i think it's good to attack this policy as attack barack obama for having a ban in syria for four years. >> many of us wanted him to come in. >> we all did. >> i think there was -- >> doesn't make -- >> but nobody -- now, frank, we are get a second wave of people from the tech community shockley stun stunned and deeply saddened and kept their voices quiet when babies were washing up on the shores. >> you can criticize what the obama administration did or didn't do in syria and also say what trump is doing overreaching is wrong andiotes rights but you can do bothf the things at the same time. >> what i'm saying, is, yes. you can't have it both ways. you can't remain silent while
young syrian children are washing up on beaches and you had suddenly be shocked and deeply saddened. >> you and i always talk bible and i know we have to go. >> amen, brother. >> i want you to be clear. jesus was a refuge. i got criticized for saying this on the show sunday. >> who criticized you for saying that? >> who cares. >> who cares? nobody has ever criticized you, al! >> i'm on point by if i get criticism. if i'm not criticized, then i didn't make a point. >> yeah. >> jesus second chapter -- >> hold on. alex, don't tell us to go to break because we are about to go to church here so stop. go ahead, preacher. preach! >> matthew second chapter 13th and 14th verse talks about after the baby jesus was born, the angel came to joseph in a dream and told him to flee because
seek to destroy the child because he has found out who he was. and joseph and mary took the baby and fled to egypt. that is a refuge. the definition of a refuge is to flee -- no, they went to bethlehem. they went to egypt. >> love it. >> our morning bible study! >> i'm with you. >> and against being destroyed. that is a refuge. so when you and i talk bible, let's remember, we worship a refuge. >> there you go. >> and, also, also, i think anybody suggesting that we should close our door to refuges should look at the story, mika, of the good samaritan. >> there you go. thank you. >> the good samaritan, obviously, was helped by someone who was supposed to hate samaritans. they were the enemies. >> we have to go. >> no, we have more bible versus. now, children, if you're watching, your bible verse reference for today, matthew 25. matthew 25.
how jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. i was hungry. >> and you didn't feed them. >> you didn't clothe. you wanted education and you handed me a voucher! >> i was thirsty and you gave me a cup of water. frank is about to pass out here. >> i should note it is a bible study. >> that is every day here. >> our next guest is joe de blas blasio. just ask listerine® users. the very people we studied in the study of bold. people who are statistically more likely to stand up to a bully. do a yoga handstand. and be in a magician's act. listerine® kills 99% of bad breath germs so you can feel 100% in life. bring out the bold™. also try listerine® pocketpaks for fresh breath on the go.
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today i i'm keeping another promise to the american people. by nominating judge neil gorsuch to be a nominee of the united states supreme court. and i would like to ask judge gorsuch and his wonderful wife louise to please step forward. please, louise, judge? here they come. here they come. so was that a surprise? was it? >> he loves a surprise. he loves to leave everyone waiting. welcome back to "morning joe." wednesday, february 1st. still bus the coauthors of "game
change." political analysts mark halpern and john heilemann. >> i love how he said it was a surprise. it wasn't a surprise at all. >> i think that was sarcasm. >> you think so? >> yeah. which is an interesting question. why did they telegraph it so much? >> producing. >> was it not -- >> it seems like given they moved the announcement up and everything they were trying to do to get back on track from the weekend, that that was part of the plan of, like, get everything out and get people talking about it, that it's an earlier announcement and an announcement you're all going to consider a mainstream, you know, conservative mainstream announcement and calm people down. >> willie, have a lot of rules, as you know, politically. you know? nobody should ever go 90 miles an hour and another rule i've always had. never sneak up on the press. always let them know. always telegraph. they certainly did this yesterday. they didn't sneak up on the press like they did a couple of days before. >> and for all of the sort of the giddiness in the press yesterday that this was going to be like the finale of "the
apprentice." like we didn't know who it was going to be. >> humiliate them in public. >> that was a very conventional ceremony in the east room of the white house and much more than they have done so far out of the trump administration. >> it had a reveal quality to it. >> it did have the reveal but everybody knew who it was going to be so there was no reas a rule. >> probably to receive positive reaction in the conservative wing of the country. donald trump has been at war with republicans on some issue. he certainly is at war with democrats. no president can succeed about wthat support from their own party. i think this pick gives him a lot of goodwill with the conservative wing, the establishment conservative wing of the party for a good long while. and maybe they want it out there to make sure that this pick would be received the way it universal has been. >> and opposite of the first week where everything was coming at you fast. he said, look, here it comes. we are going to show you the
pitch. >> pitching. >> it's always crazy. people are always thinking, i want to surprise the press with my vice presidential pick. never, ever, ever a good idea. tell them i am going to select and let them know and let them vet it for a couple of days. >> something like that. >> and this is exactly -- >> the other reason you float names out there is to see if anything surfaces that is a problem. this guy made an extraordinary first impression on america last night in prime time with wall-to-wall coverage. but if you float the name out there and see is there something problematic? i think that they pay a price for floating it out there because this has got a lot of attention. it's the quality of the person he picked. again, people on the left won't like his conservative orientation but this is what donald trump said he would do, nominate someone like this. >> you can't be surprised. judge neil gorsuch of
boulder, colorado. he is donald trump's choice for supreme court. he sits on the 10th circuit of appeals and nominated by george w. bush and a units voice vote in 2006. he has decided with groups that blamed obamacare violated their religious liberty, including the hobby lobby case. he is similar to scalia and his opinions and clerkship have drawn widespread praise. >> not only are we looking at the writings of the nominee and i studied them closely, but he is said to be among the finest and most brilliant, oftentimes, the writings of any judge for a long, long time. and his academic credentials, something very important to me and that education has always been a priority, are as good as i have ever seen. >> i began my legal career working for byron white, the
last coloradoan to serve on supreme court. and the only justice to lead the nfl in rushing. >> so let's bring in legal affairs correspondent for npr, nina tokenberg and jeffrey rosen will join us as well on board. >> nina, great to have both of you guys here. let's start, though, who this judge worked for. obviously, byron white and justice kennedy. have been seen as center right justices. can we read anything -- >> yeah, you can read something into this. you can read something into this which is that these sort of back channel story so this is this is a way conservative activists hope that they can telegraph to anthony kennedy, who is 80 years old, and who judge gorsuch clerked for. this is a way to say to him,
it's all right for you to leave and give us a second appointment to the court. this is a chess move, in addition to everything else. so it has lots and lots of layers to this appointment. >> what can you tell us about the judge, himself, that donald trump selected? >> well, it's very interesting. i mean, from a psychological perspective and a personality perspective, he is son of anne gorsuch burford who is a bomb throwing take no prisoners head of the epa during the reagan administration. he is known on his court as being unfailingly polite, a good listener, a great colleague. anything but a bomb thrower. his bombs are cerebral bombs and they are very effective. >> mark halpern? >> jeffr rosen, the democrats stopped robert bourque painting
him outside of the mainstream. in his writings and his comments, anything about this nominee that suggests democrats will succeed in saying like bourque, he is, quote, outside the mainstream. >> think certainly will probably try to do that. >> no in the mainstream he is a principle conservative in the mold of scalia. what is interesting he may be more libertarian than scalia and a willingness to check the excesses of the president and congress. gorsuch, more than scalia, has questioned the constitutional underpinnings of the regulatory state from demonstrative progresses. now they want the supreme court to check the excesses of president trump and a republican congress, it's possible the more jeffersonian gorsuch might decide more with progressives than the hamiltonian scalia. >> if one area to center in on gorsuch is it hobby lobby and little sisters of the poor?
>> i think it will probably be the clash between religious freedoms and the rights of the reproductive rights of women. and i would guess that that is probably where they are going to focus, although assuming that judge gorsuch is confirmed, he will take scalia's place and there still are five votes to uphold roe versus wade and a right to have an abortion, the wo woman's right to choose. but if there is another appointment and that is really what conservatives want is the next appointment, then there are potentially the votes to reverse roe. >> jeff rosen, let me ask you if it's one of the -- seems to be tactically smart things of this that gorsuch was confirmed by the court of appeals with a
units vot unanimous vote. what would be the argument as a democrat you would have to make i voted for him last time but this time i'm not going to and here is why? >> right. >> you know, both republicans and democrats have been in this situation before and they have tend to argue the supreme court is different than the lower court. a lifetime seat and more important. you can get away with that shift in votes. the real tactical question is going to be filibuster or not. right item right. >> do you decide during this first appointment in the end will not be blocked to fill p t filibuster which the nuclear option blow it up and wait until the next seat which nina said is the important one replacement of justice kennedy and i think that is the tough choice for democrats. >> jeffrey rosen and nina totenburg thank you for being on our show. democrats started drawing their battle lines after the announcement. one released a scathing statement calling for democrats to block the nomination.
quote, we need to afford donald trump the same level of cooperation that mitch mcconnell afforded with president obama. that starts with making sure that judge gorsuch never sits on distort. that sentiment echoed by jeff merkley who calls the seat stolen and filled by an illegitimate nominee. these says gorsuch favors corporations over workers. chuck schumer knocked gorsuch approach to workers rights and calling him hostile to women's right and quote, skeptical he can be a strong independent justice. he set up a procedural fight saying the senate must insist upon 60 votes for any supreme court nominee. a bar that was met by each of president obama's nominees. that would mean sene reblicans need eight democratic votes to overcome a filibuster unless they invoke
the nuclear option of a mere majority. senate judiciary committee chuck grassley pushed against a filibuster saying gorsuch is respected across the ideological spectrum as a main street judge. some were in the audience last night where lindsey graham could not rule out the prospect of going nuclear. >> it would be sad to me if we have to go that route with a man like this. but he is going to get confirmed. you know, i've took a lot of crap voting for obama's judges. i thought they were qualified. i've tried to be fair to everybody as the best i know how to be. i didn't think garland should have been picked in the last year of obama's term, after we had started the primary process. this president won. he deserves the right to pick qualified people. and this is one of the most qualified people i've ever met. >> willie, these are the ten senators, the ten democratic senators that are from states that donald trump won, and those
are the ten that we are going to be focused on. you can look at them and see. i think the most interesting ones probably claire mccal kill -- mccaskill is going to be interesting because she was in a state overwhelmingly for donald trump and same for jon tester. >> and joe manchin will be here and we will talk to him about that. the context of this is so fascinating on both sides. on the one hand everything the democrats say and posture about that i nominee is colored by what happened with merrick garland a year ago. they are fighting a battle not just about this nominee, but about the process that prevented them from getting the nominee they wanted under president obama. on the other side, republicans will say, well, if we have to go nuclear we may not want to, but don't forget november of 2013 when harry reid removed the filibuster but for the cabin level and appointees and lower
level judges. >> put up the senators again. bill nelson is a no. debbie is a no and brown is a no and casey most likely a no and baldwin most likely a no and mccaskill most likely a no. they will not get to 60. they are going down or mcconnell has to go nuclear. >> but there are other senators not on that list from blue states who are principally opposed to filibustering a supreme court nominee, specifically dick durbin who said that. >> just looking at that list, they are not getting to 60. >> join ing us now is andy carr. good to have you on board this morning. >> good to be with you. thanks for having me on. >> talk about the fights, the supreme court fights are like. we are talking about how tough things are now. it's -- since robert bourque got
treated the way he got treated i think 1987, it's been a battle ever since. >> well, first of all, i think this is an excellent choice that the president made. outstanding choice. any objective view would say this person is qualified to be in supreme court. that doesn't mean there won't be a lot of politics and there will be a ton of politics. i really think the president will have to work very hard to get to the 60 votes but it's the work of the grassroots as well. so america has to stand up and say, give this person a chance. i actually think that we have a situation where partisan politics will probably dominate the early debate but as time goes on, as we get ready for this, we will come to recognize this is a nominee that actually could do a very good job on supreme court. he represents a jen racial change for the court. i think that he is a very wise person. he is very meured.
he's a good, solid listener and he, obviously, is very, very intelligent. >> you talk about partisan politics, obviously, research is democrats have hard feelings about president obama's choice. but also what about the travel ban? and all of the different other issues that have led up to this just time in terms of the time frame? do you think that plays a role in how tough this could get and how he heated this debate could become? >> i think the debate is about what the constitution says today. it doesn't say they have to play a role the last few weeks obviously. people have in their mind the supreme court is a big deal. yes, what does supreme court do? they are separate, but equal, article 3 in the institution and play a huge role. donald trump promised to do this during the campaign. one of the reasons he got so much support was ed that he was
going to pick a supreme court justice that would be different than what was picked in the past. and he's done that. i think he has nominated someone who is very credible. the list of 20 names that donald trump put together in the summer was actually a better list than i thought he would come up with and i was impressed with it. i think donald trump took this seriously and as president trump, he did a very good job of having someone vet and help and make a choice, and then he rolled it out on. the stage is set. yes, i think the debate over what has happened on immigration, the debate over the election and the electoral college causes people to pay more attention to supreme court. a good thing. now we have an opportunity what it will be like to put someone on the court under a donald trump stamp of approval, and it's going to be an interesting debate. but donald trump passed a very significant test for me when he proved that he was making a presidential decision and he did it in a presidential way. >> andy card, thank you very
much. still ahead on "morning joe," democrats hoping to filibuster neil gorsuch can count out at least one of their colleagues. senator joe manchin of west virginia, we will ask you what he wants to hear from the president's supreme court nominee. joining us on set next, new york city mayor bill de lass yo. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. dollar co. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. os yo. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. yo. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. yo. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. o. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. . you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. aryear going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
wow. that was -- that just happened. >> watch this. >> joining us on set. joining us on set new york city mayor bill de blasio. >> mr. mayor, hello. >> good to have you on board this morning. >> the ultimate teaser. what just happened? talking among ourselves. >> something just happened. >> so how are you? how is the city? how are the law enforcement officers handling all of the protests that have not only come over the past weekend, but are
likely to stay with us? we just showed scenes in brooklyn, outside of chuck schumer's place. this looks like it's going to be the rule and not the exception. >> it's going to a time where there is a lot of strong feelings for good reason because an election a 3 million vote difference and the people who got 3 million votes is not in the white house. 400,000 people came out for the women's march after the day of the inauguration in new york city and was supposed to be one of the small local marches. it was 400,000 people and nypd did an amazing job. nypd, i've said this publicly. in fact, a rally at battery park across from the statue of liberty the other day after the executive order on refuges. i called out to a crowd of 10,000 people and said let's thank the nypd to protect the right to protest' making this possible in a democracy and there was a huge ovation from the crowd. >> that's great. >> because they had done a very professional impressive job. we are going to see a lot of it. we are ready for it. the city can handle it. no city in america better at
making sure that the protests go peacefully for everyone involved and no one better than new york city on that. >> yeah. >> do you believe, mr. mayor, that the executive order is, in fact, the muslim ban, it's not spli explicitly that. do you believe it's a ban of muslims entering the country? >> i think it's the first step toward a ban and toward a registry. i don't think it out of paranoia. if you take everything that donald trump said on the campaign trail and treat it like he meant it. i know there is that famous, you know, serious versus a literal question. if someone says outloud to the roar of the crowd they might mean it and a lot of history suggests we should have taken people more literally and wouldn't be surprised later on. he talked about a ban, he talked about a registry. this is an obvious first step. i think it had caused revulsion all over the country and i think a lot of people saw this and
said, wait a minute, we are putting older folks in detention and folks who are ill, children, permanent residents in were detention and i think bothered people the most. how do you put a permanent resident in the united states in detention with no charge? that is fundamentally against our values. >> the white house says this about the security. do you see the security questions involved in this immigration order? do you respect that part of it? >> i represent new york city. we are the number one terror target in america. we experienced terrorism. not theoretical for us. we are a city of immigrants and believe in respect for all faiths and religions. including our muslim brothers and sisters who are part of new york city and including 900 police officers in new york city who happen to be muslim. we can't see something where people are divided along religious lines and feel good about it. i think we do have a security issue. then as you said theohere are
individuals could a background check for a specific reason, probable cause in confirmance with constitutional values is one thing but this is not close. this is people from those countries and clear language if you're muslim you'll be treated differently, quote/unquote, than religious minorities. >> do you believe the muslim ban is a goal for donald trump? >> i can't take him too lightly but we should be ready to recognize. if someone can mouth those words, then maybe they could actually do it and we would be fools to think otherwise. this was certainly the first step. >> i think that is one of the biggest problems here with how this was rolled out. no matter what it turns out to be, as it gets refined along the way. we certainly heard jen kelly talking about that and we will hear from the major cabinet level head at some point at different levels on these issues in the future but i think the damage that it did, is it really
made people who already had their back up or trying to have an open mind, forget it i'm feeling a muslim ban coming on. we are not for that. >> it's not a muslim ban. >> i know that but it reaffirms that we are real. >> the great thing is reaffirms fears that we are real because it came out of his mouth on this show, i think, for the first time back in december of 2015. the great thing we have benchmarks. this is supposed to be a temporary three-month ban or whatever you want to call it from the seven countries. and, obviously, general kelly is going to have pressure on him to figure out how to vet in such a way that lifts that ban or whatever the white house wants to call it in three months. >> if it is applied to individuals for a specific reason, if they lift it on schedule, there are going to be indicators whether they are going in a more extreme direction or not but i want to talk about what you talk about, joe, people in america are feeling about this. i think a lot of people who look at people being detained without
a charge and it doesn't matter in this instance with they have a permanent resident or something else. the notion of remaining from a core constitutional value and anyone who values privacy and individual liberties should have their back up at this particular time because it's a slippery slope. you're right a equal at that timive measure. the hornet's nest they opened up for a lot of people who believe in constitutional values this was a very dangerous signal. >> you had no warning. that is incredible. >> no warning and no attempt to coordinate. the airports officials were not prepared or briefed. the federal employees were not prepared or briefed. it was chaos. >> courts generally have said presidents are in charge of immigration policy. what right does an individual city like new york to say we are a sanctuary city and have our own policy toward immigrants? >> first of all, i think the word sanctuary city has often
been misinterrupted. it's first and foremost for public safety. for half of folks undocumented and 00,000 permanent residents and our if one sees a crime or victim of a crime, they have to feel comfortable going to a police officer. if they feel that is meaning deportation they will not talk to the police. it is about public safety and the same will be true for schools, hospitals if you give your information to a public official and that is handed over to immigration immediately people won't do it. i've said this to donald trump and i've said this to jeff sessions. a list of 170 offenses of serious and violent crimes. if you commit these we will work with i.c.e. right away. if you steal a loaf of bread or a amount of marijuana from moo
my point of view i will not see somebody deported. that is not good for anyone and leaves a bunch of kids here for no one. if you commit a serious or violent crime we in new york city will fully cooperate are i.c.e. >> my mother says you should run for president. >> wow. >> your mother -- >> she just randomly blurted that out this weekend. >> tell your mother i said she did a good job with you. tell her i said she did a good job with you. >> bill de blasio. >> you're strong and you're patient! strong and patient. >> so patient. >> yeah. patient with guests, especially. up next -- >> proud of you! >>. senator joe manchin says it would be wrong for his party to block the president's supreme court pick without giving him a chance. the west virginia democrat has an open mind about this and he joins us live from capitol hill next.
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something -- >> no. >> a group of people? >> democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia joins us. >> why do you live in brooklyn? >> i don't. >> what part? >> joe, joe! by the way. by the way, so nice to see you on sunday. >> great to see you the other night. we went on his house boat. i'm serious. i thought it was going to be like one of those things you go down the mississippi river in. it was more like malcolm forbes' yacht. >> my goodness, no! it's an old steel troller. we are going to do a show from there, joe. >> we will be a bipartisan show. >> so i do want to say this because a lot of people watch the show and they are hear how divided washington is. we were talking about an awful lot of things but i asked you whether you had senators there and you said, yes, you do all the time but. >> four and four. >> but under one condition. what is that? >> bipartisan. if we have four democrats, we
must fight like the dickens to get four republicans. if we have ten, we want ten of each. >> wow. >> we are going to do that and continue that. it makes a difference, really makes a difference. everybody apologize himself and we have a good time and we get to know each other and what this place should be about. >> we have got to do this spring the show. >> we will do it. we will do it. >> from there and we will play that crazy music. that was good. >> nathan and also lee greenwood. >> tell them the favorite song? >> it's a son of a gun, isn't it? >> i liked it. >> go ahead. >> i love house boat diplomacy will save the country. great. >> whatever it takes. almost heaven. almost heaven is the name of the boat. >> senator, what are your feelings about the nominee put forward to supreme court last night by donald trump? >> well, let me put it in
perspective, okay? and here is where i come from. what the republicans did with merrick garland was absolutely unbelievable to me. it was a disaster. i was embarrassed by how mitchell mcconnell led the republicans not to each be decent and considerate enough to each talk to the gentleman, let alone vote for him. they had new votes to vote him down, i'm sure, but they should have at least gone through the process. if you want a third working branch of government, which is our judicial branch, then you must have a nine-member court. we need to work to get there. if this is the right person or not, i don't know but we should go through the process. i'm anxious to sit and talk to him. i understand he has impeccable credentials and well thought of in a class basically with barack obama at harvard and he got overwhelmingly unanimous consent when he came through this process before. let's find out. i don't know if i talk to him. i'm anxious to do that. >> do you think, jor, as outrag
for democrats to go nuclear on this nominee and push a simple majority to push him through? >> i've been opposed to the nuclear option. i thought harry reid was dead wrong when he did it. i voted against that. my dear beloved senator, prior to my coming here, was robert c. byrd and he would be rolling over in his grave knowing what we have done and what we continue to do and how we really act out. so with that being said, i think it should be a bipartisan vote. i think it should be 60 votes for our supreme court. i think at the highest court of the land it should be what we are coming together as americans and not to continue to divide us. with that being said, let's give the man a chance. talk to him. my goodness. don't shut it down before we even get started. two wrongs don't make a right. >> mark halpern? >> senator, are you impervious to pressure from national groups who will join a filibuster?
>> let me make sure, mark, we define filibuster. as you know, we call it a cloacher vote if we don't get unanimous consent. nobody is getting that about anything any more so basically everything goes through a filibuster or a cloacher vote. john kerry said he voted for it before he was against it and that was used against him. that is what he meant. so if you vote to get on his nomination, then it only takes 51 votes by our rule. >> i understand but you're coming under pressure from national liberal groups to join an attempt to block him by demanding 60 votes. are you impervious to that pressure? >> i am because if my shrolgs i get defeated, i get to go home and get to go back to beautiful west virginia. i'm fine with that. i can live with that! that's not what i was sent here to do. the thing that bothers me more they keep saying joe is up in a
real tough state. i've been in a tough state for a while and in 2012 mitt romney won my state by 35 points. i won it by almost 25 points. that is a 60-point swing. west virginia they will look at the individual and make a decision. i appreciate that. i really applaud my wonderful constituents back home. but with that being said, i didn't come here to say, oh, my goodness, if i do this i might not get re-elected. i didn't come here to be here for life. this is not a lifetime job. it's basically i came here to do the best can i and i'm going to make a decision. if i can go home and, mark, explain it at home and defend it, i can vote for it. if i can't explain it, there an old saying you can't shine you know what and you can't shine this stuff up and make it look any better or smell any better. >> that was you can't shine, of course, an auburn war eagle helmet. go ahead. >> i love auburn. come on. come on. >> senator, switching topics. >> to the travel ban you have
been on the record a long typically in favor of extreme vetting for people who are trying to -- >> absolutely. >> and others coming to the country. i understand it, you think that president trump's travel ban is a bad idea. can you explain why, please? >> i can. if you go back in history. go back to 2011. 2011 when barack obama said in iraq we are putting six months freeze on everything. those were mostly visas. the visas were basically because of, i think, rand paul was on and told you what happened in bowling fren green. we found out through the visa exchange that people got here and they were members of al qaeda and should never have happened. we knew we had to do something to shore that up. he added six months and they added as i'm understanding six more countries to that. the reason we had six-month freeze on those countries because they were harboring and basically supporting terrorist activities and terrorists. so with that being said, they said, okay, there is where we
are. let's go fast forward to today. barack obama, at that time, did not go with green cards. he did not, you know, repeal them or prevent people with a green card that had already gone through on the vetting process. only thing i have said if you remember the inauguration day, we came back in and i was all in favor. let's put our security team in place. let's let the president have his security team as quickly as we could. we voted for general kelly and general mattis and should have voted for pompeo that day but he held over until monday but it got done quickly. once it was done we had the three security teams in place. i'm understanding they weren't consulted at all or had any insight than we did when we heard through the media. when you have 25 or 30-year-old staffers and nothing wrong with staffers but i can assure you their name was no on the door. if i had a staffer that had signed a waiver, i would say get your paycheck from somebody else. that being said i think they have overreached and i hope they
learned from and that pulled back and start governing in basically a way that you're structuring your cabinet around you. and use the professionals. you know, we passed kelly, general kelly and general mattis unanimously almost. overwhelmingly. democrats and republicans, we have confidence in faith. mr. president, use them. use them. >> they are right there and they happen to have some context. that perhaps some of the members of the white house council -- >> or the staff. some of the younger staff don't -- haven't been through these battles before, exactly. but it certainly was comforting yesterday. i'm sure for a lot of people on the hill, senator, to actually see general kelly out there and describing what was going on, and you got the sense he was actually in charge. >> well, general kelly is a soldier's soldier. i've met him many times. he has appeared before the armed service committee which i was on for six years.
. i always enjoyed. there was no double talk or mincing words with general kelly. he gave you the unfiltered truth what he saw and believed. if you didn't like t i'm sorry. he could explain it in terms even i could understand. and when that was said, it was what it was. i appreciate him. why we got so many democrats that supported him. let me tell you. i'm hoping that my democrat colleagues understand how we were treated when we were in the majority and the minority would not let us move at all. we didn't like it. it wasn't good for america. we spoke about that. let's find pathways for it and i think chuck schumer is going to try to do that, i really do. he is being pushed hard. i understand that. he's a good man and make good decisions. i believe in chuck. >> let's hope. senator joe manchin, thank you. >> thank you, joe. >> good to see you on sunday as well. >> let's do it again. good to be with you all. >> show on the boat. >> the thing is chuck schumer is
going to be, if you talk not only to joe manchin but a lot of democrats, chuck schumer is going to be far more effective in bringing successful coalitions together to pass legislation that harry reid ever was. harry reid, i think even democrats say he was not constructive in that area. >> i think, again, it goes back to the question we have been kind of talking about all day which is that schumer, given the way in which the resistance to trump is mounting on the left, he's going to be an incredibly pressured environment for months to come because he does want to try to do what you're suggesting, but it's not clear he has a lot of space to move, given where the progressive wing of the party is and the amount of energy there is on that side to try to be in total war fare with trump on everything. >> mark, the first 12 days have put chuck schumer in a corner. i'm not saying that the senator from new york, the senate
minority leader doesn't agree with the people protesting outside of his house or everywhere else but the administration has to figure out a way to get him out of the corner. >> yes. >> calling him a cry baby probably is not -- >> mocking him. >> is not the best way to do it. but, you know, yesterday, obviously, when they are talking about, you know, their executive order that, you know, for lgbt and then they are going to -- it would be helpful if they did something on immigration, helpful if they did some other things that would show that they were putting an olive branch out there just to give chuck schumer a little more breathing room. >> space. >> to put these coalitions together. >> it would. but you can't underestimate the power and energy on the left now and the pressure on him to simply do what the base of the party wants, where you've got elizabeth warren and bernie sanders activating their organizations. schumer is more centrist.
>> he said yesterday he is asking remaining cabinet nominees in hearings, regardless of what the position is for, about their position on the anti-immigrant as he calls it, executive order. he is feeling that much heat that that is going to be a litmus test for him. anybody who gets -- >> i ask this question to anybody who understands donald trump's psyche. what is it that made him do something he did yesterday, which is not just challenge senator reid's authenticity when senator -- >> schumer. >> excuse me, schumer is weeping. he challenges it saying he is a li liar, a fraud, a fake, these are not real tears. he could be suggesting that nobody is moved to tears by being upset about what trump has done with the travel ban. it it seems to me if you're trying to work with chuck schumer why are you doing that? what is the thing that makes trump do that if he knows that
it's just going to be provocative and humiliate schumer? what is he trying to do there? i don't understand in. >> yeah. i agree. >> i don't know. >> in our next hour -- >> i don't know. i do know this. it makes it a little bit tougher to get out of the corner. chuck schumer if he has a good transportation bill -- chuck -- a lot of say you say that about me? screw you. chuck schumer is a tough, tough man. he is a tough, tough fighter. there is no doubt -- i completely agree with you. it's the last thing. like i said the morning after i won elections if i won by 20 or 30 points i would call the people up and talk about how stupid i was. and, of course, they would agree. and how lucky i was to beat them. of course, they would agree. but they were the first people i worked on. >> yeah. >> and it always -- not sometimes. it always pays you back. it always pays you back. >> this is a whole different dynamic you're used to.
the next hour we speak to the member of the senate judiciary committee dick durbin. the democratic whip. "morning joe" is back in a moment. with every early morning... every late night... and moment away... with every click...call...punch... and paycheck... you've earned your medicare. it was a deal that was made long ago, and aarp believes it should be honored. thankfully, president trump does too. "i am going to protect and save your social security and your medicare. you made a deal a long time ago."
vice president for the public policy studies, leonard leo. he advised donald trump in his supreme court nominee. you were there every step of the way. how close a call was it between gorsuch and hardiman. >> the president looked at them and looked at their records carefully. >> was this the choice you advised president trump to make? >> well, my job was to just give him a list of great people and tell them everything i could about each of them and it was his decision. >> was he on the list? >> neil gorsuch?
>> yeah. >> absolutely. >> if i am a factory worker in ohio or wisconsin, how will this man getting on the supreme court help my life? >> this is a judge that has a deep sense of fairness and par she al tea, and he will look at the law carefully, and that's the best safeguard for all americans in terms of their freedom and opportunity in this country. >> john heilman? >> i find it fascinated, that given gorsuch who is even a little more conservative than scalia, and lot of justices learn a lot in the process of serving as clerks, and so explain where he comes from in terms of his judicial philosophy? >> justices white and kennedy are very keen intellects, and
look at the law carefully. you may agree or disagree with some of the things they decided, but at the end of the day what i think judge gorsuch got from both of them, was trying to get it right and working hard to find the right answer and trying to be impartial and fair. you can disagree with some of their opinions, but at the end of the day that's what i think he got out of, particularly justice white. >> are you comfortable in looking at his opinions telling us whether you feel he is closer to john roberts, a chief justice, or is he closer to clarence thomas who has less problems completely turning over a series of cases that he feels are unconstitutional? >> i think frankly he is closest
to justice scalia. what he is doing in many opinions is saying the best way to protect freedom and accountability, is to look at the constitution, and to interpret the law as its written and originally intended. that's the legacy of justice scalia and at the core of what scalia's judicial life was all about and it is what allows power to rest of the people, and that's the core of judge gorsuch's work. >> thank you for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. and still the president has a cabinet to fill and democrats are throwing up as many roadblocks as they could muster. that and much more ahead on a very packed 8:00 a.m. hour of "morning joe." stay with us. g your quarter bac. fountains don't earn interest, david.
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the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i'm glad she'll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise we're back to basics here on "morning joe." >> we have political analysts, john heilman, and he's checking out his glasses. >> wait a minute. >> on capitol hill, can you imagine if we did that?
kasie hunt, good to have you onboard with us as well. >> i will tell you what -- >> it was like "the bachelor." >> it was interesting. very interesting that the second he walked up to the microphone, you could tell he was in his element. i always have theories that presidents are great at some things and not so great at some things, and george w. bush was horrific with the one-on-ones, and trump is good with one-on-ones, and he is relaxed and hit it out of the park politically. especially with conservatives this morning. >> it looked like he could be reagan or bush in terms of the staging of it, and in terms of the guy he chose. he chose a guy with impeccable legal credentials, and he
celebrated him for that, and for all the unorthodox things donald trump could have done as president, this could not have been a more standard republican pick, and this guy likes scalia, and you look at his resume and demeanor and it could not have been more standard and powerful for the politics of the republican party. >> and also more powerful for middle america, as far as looking at their president. now, of course, a lot of steps going on over the weekend, and a lot of people walking past their tv set saying protest this, but last night, willie, 8:00, when he announced this all along, i can tell you in my house, i called my daughter down, kate, who is 13, and i said come down and watch this because whoever he picks will be at the supreme court when you are 40 years old, and let's watch this. i expected numbers are going to be pretty huge. again, the second he walked up to the microphone, you are like, oh, wow, and he looks
comfortable. looks like he has been there for a long time. >> as disastrous and amateurish as the immigration ban was, and boy, he was together last night and you could not find a conservative in that room, which was a spin room afterwards, and senators across the board, and the media, thrilled and energized by this pick. >> and also networks that have been openly hostile toward him talking about how this was extremely successful rollout. >> i think it was in a sweet spot, and this is what he does, and he likes to create drama and do the big reveal and have people waiting until the last second, and on every level, including the fact that it was really organized and well
produced, and had sort of a wonderful flare to it that was extremely high end, so to speak, this was donald trump doing what he knows how to do, which is an event. i remember when we went to new hampshire and the primary, and he wanted us to see how backstage how his events -- >> she said this is somebody that understands how to put things together. and it's the complete opposite of what we have been talking about the show -- >> the staging. >> yeah, the staging was horrific earlier on the steven miller stuff, because -- >> because things like government got in the way. >> and on this case, though, i was talking to the white house yesterday, and not really pleasant phone calls, but picked up in my reporting that the president and others said we're going to do this in a very
organized and meticulous way, and what happened over the weekend is not going to happen again. >> we will see about that. >> yeah, we will see about that. >> not to take anything away from it, and he put on a list in the campaign of people he would consider skpbgs it was a mainstream conservative list, in order to reassure republicans who were not sure, and he had a long time to think about this and he has a list, and executing something like this should not be that hard given that it's totally in your control, and it was executed flawlessly, and i totally agree with that. and the key element is that he picked somebody that any of the other 16 republicans ran for president would have been on their short list, too. and for all the abnormal elements of donald trump, this is a normal pick. >> as you know, and for many
other people, it's about the supreme court. there are -- the never trumpers, few less never trumpers this morning, and some even go into the middle territory, again, for people that don't realize this, and for liberals and conservatives, willie, this is what matters most to them. >> i was talking to a conservative last night that said almost exactly that, and people said how could you vote for donald trump, and for me it was all about supreme court, and if hillary clinton was elected this would be a different pick. >> and kennedy may decide to retire over the next conuple of
years, and you have democrats who are older, and they may decide to get off the court. there's, though, also the opportunity, clarence thomas may decide to get off the court. there's a chance that the president may select two to three more supreme court justices over the next three years, which would fundamentally change the nature of the court. >> now, let's take a look at this. judge neil gorsuch of colorado is donald trump choice for supreme court. those nominated by george w. bush, and approved unanimously by a voice vote in 2006, and his highest profile ruling so far are siding with groups that claimed obamacare violated their religious liberty, including the hobby lobby case, and he's considered a strong writer in the philosophy in the mold of
antonin scalia, and the rollout was choreographed and a political success, and president trump casts the nomination as keeping a campaign promise. >> months ago as a candidate i publicly presented a list of brilliant and accomplished people to the american electorate, and pledged to make my choice from among that list. millions of voters said this was the single most important issue to them when they voted for me for president. i am a man of my word. i will do as i say. something that the american people have been asking for from washington for a very, very long time. >> in our legal order, it's for congress and not the courts to write new laws and it's a rule of judges to apply and not alter
the work of the people's representatives, and a judge that likes every outcome he reaches is very likely a bad judge. stretching for results he prefers than for those the law demands. >> conservatives applauded the pick, and he has the approval of one obama supporter. i strongly support his nomination to the supreme quart. >> wow, that's fairly strong. >> we have opposition as well, which i will get to that. >> that is quite a surprise. we are hearing chuck schumer say we need 60 votes, and you look at what is out there, and how many democrats are going to be running in 2018 are from states that went easily for trump. >> exact number they need to break a filibuster.
>> yeah, and somebody in the heidi hide camp will not be able to decide with -- >> i think that's a open question. >> we'll see how she answers that. there's going to be a battle. talk a little bit more about this guy. he clerked for byron white. >> his mother was a senior official in the reagan administration, and his education pedigree is first rate, and this is not a breitbart pick. >> not at all. >> by the way, pryor would have been a pick, and the way the weekend looked, i thought they
were going for him because i thought they wanted to be in a state of war at all times and this is the complete different direction. >> this is an establishment pick that unites the republican party not just on capitol hill but around the country, and his name was on the list and he's in the mold of scalia, and his resume is one that i think will attract some democratic support, not just that one official. i believe it's going to be huge. it's going to be up to mitch mcconnell how to handle that. next, we will dig into the battle lines the democrats have lined. we will bring in senator dick durbin who was invited to attend
last night's rollout but passed on it. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. suck on and point decisively with the arm of your glasses. it is no longer eyewear, it is your wand of business wizardry. abracadabra. you've just gone from invisible to invincible. step two: before your meeting, choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly so you can prepare to win at business. book now at lq.com
as soon as trump announced the pick of gorsuch, democrats were drawing their battle lines. there was a scathing statement released calling for democrats to block the nomination, quote, we need to afford donald trump -- here we go, the same level of cooperation mitch mcconnell afforded president obama, and that starts with making sure that judge gorsuch never sits on the supreme court. and that is echoed by senator merkley. senators ron wyden, and brown and warren said the same thing right away.
chuck schumer set up a procedural fight saying this. that would mean senate republicans need eight democratic votes to overcome a filibuster until they invoke the nuclear option of a mere majority. grassley is a mainstream judge. some senate republicans including the leadership was in last night's audience at the white house where lindsay graham could not rule out the prospect of going nuclear. >> it would be sad to me if we have to go that route with a man like this. but he's going to get confirmed. you know, i have taken a lot of cap voting for obama's judges, and i thought they were qualified and i tried to be fair
the best i could be, and i didn't think garland should have been picked in obama's last term. this president won, and he deserved the right to pick qualified people, and this is one of the most qualified people i ever met. >> and cashow ugly is the fight going to be on the hill? >> there's always going to be bad blood because of what happened with merrick garland, but leaders are prepared to say we want to fight another day. this doesn't change the ballot supreme court and we are not replacing a liberal justice, and this is not an inflammatory pick, and this is not somebody who is outside of the judicial mainstream or the establishment mainstream, i should say, but chuck schumer had protesters outside of his house last night in brooklyn urging him to try and block this. that really, i think, shows you the pressure that they are
suddenly under from their base. it's not necessarily related to this issue, and it's about the executive order over the weekend. i cannot tell you how much that turned up the temperature on capitol hill. last week before that order came out, they were talking still about, okay, we are not going to oppose everything just because it has donald trump's name on it. it's a much different environment up there, and it's going to make chuck schumer's life hard, i think. >> and you mentioned the voice that got gorsuch on the federal appeals court in 2006, and among those that voted for him, chuck schumer, leahy, and senators, barack obama, hillary clinton, john kerry, and joe biden all voting for gorsuch.
>> a >> look, it's a really smart thing from the trump campaign. >> how many alabama graduates are on the supreme court? >> a lot. >> because we dominate. >> after harvard law school, university alabama law school is number two. >> there are people from harvard and yale -- >> great. >> you do have harvard -- >> connecticut and massachusetts. >> the pick is smart politically, and it's just the case now that in one of many ways in which our politics are different now in the realm in the era of trump, and the republicans did bring it on themselves, not trump, but the republican party by not giving
garland a vote. >> this is not a travel ban but a temporary pause that allows us to better review the refugee and visa vetting system. this is not a ban on muslims. >> but just one day earlier, the president tweeted this. it's a ban we're announced with one week notice, the bad would rush into the country within that week, and a lot of bad dudes out there. we'll figure out when a ban is not a ban, next. i'm all the techy stuff you got crammed into your brand-new car. i'm so sexy, you can't keep your hands off me. do it again. there you go... i can do whatever you want. except keep your eyes on the road.
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the trump administration yesterday worked hard to rebrand that executive order on extreme vetting as not a travel ban. it comes after weeks of campaigning and public comments by administration officials and the president himself, referring to it as a ban. >> first of all, it's not a travel ban. >> we are going to have a strict ban. >> it's a 90-day ban. >> the ban deals with seven countries. >> it's by nature not a ban. >> this is a ban on travel. >> it's not a ban. >> and trump said yesterday it's a ban -- he says it's a ban. >> at the end of the day -- hold on, hold on.
>> his words. >> more people would have flooded into the country to take advantage before the ban went into affect. >> the words being used to describe it -- >> that's a problem. >> that, willie, is why you have a communication plan beforehand. actually, that's why yesterday's executive order was scrubbed because they wanted to have the communication plan down first before they put it out, you do that in proper order, and that's great for the white house to see, and that's great for any senators' office to see and any congressman's office to see, and get the communication down first and then release it. >> in researching it, joe, you may realize you don't want to do it. you may realize some other things might have to happen first before doing that, and you could execute in a different way so people are not left at airports, and perhaps there are
safe zones or something else that is an alternative before you have a ban. what you call a ban. >> which is what i am saying is it's a good thing that they looked at this and then, willie, slowed down, and didn't do the executive order on cyber security until they had a communication plan. >> yeah, that piece of tape is extraordinary. they have to be reminded we record our shows, and the things you say will be held against you in a court of law. >> the other thing you have to keep in mind, if you are boss, the president of the united states is using certain language, you have to stay lined up with the boss, and if the boss is calling it a ban, it's a ban. the markets are sending a clear message to president trump. get back to business. we're back in a minute.
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finance committee boycotted two cabinet picks. ranking member ron wyden cited a article saying price got a discount prior to his testimony. lying about using robo sighings on foreclosures. >> we are just saying we are not going to this committee today because we want the committee to regroup and get the information and have these two nominees come back in front of the committee, and clarify what they lied about, and i would hope they would apologize for that, and then give us the information that we all need for our states. >> finance committee orrin hatch was not pleased insisting the news gets footage of the chairs on the empty panel.
>> it's unbelievable. they are going to vote no. they have made that very clear in their multiple press releases and press conferences, so i think they ought to stop posturing and acting like idiots. this is the most pathetic thing i have seen in my whole time in the united states senate, and i think my colleagues, once they really think it through, they may say yeah, that was stupid of us, because it really is stupid. amazingly stupid. >> quite a statement. >> the confirmation -- >> he's been there a long time. >> that's utah hyperbole. >> the confirmation vote for jeff sessions is also delayed yesterday. democrats on the senate
judiciary committee juiused a m by giving speeches. senators like dianne feinstein questioned session's ability to be objective is accusing him of being staunchly partisan. >> he's attended at least 45 campaign trump campaign events, and he wore the hat and he was a leading voice and during the campaign he spoke at large rallies, smiling, while crowds chanted lock her up. it's very difficult to reconcile for me the independence and objectivity necessary for the position of attorney general. >> our democratic colleagues have decided that resistance is their chosen response. yes, hillary clinton won the popular election, but that doesn't make hill of beans worth of difference.
i hope at some point our democratic colleagues will get past their anger and come to accept the verdict of the american people and work with us. >> joining us now from capitol hill, a member of the senate judiciary committee, dick durbin of illinois. good to have you on the show this morning, senator. >> thank you. >> a lot to talk about. why don't we start with the pick for the supreme court by president trump. your feeling, does he deserve a vote or not? >> wasn't that an interesting rollout at the white house, and we are asking me if we were going to be consistent, and we are insisting on the hearing and a vote with garland, and we will insist on the same thing, and he should have a hearing and meet the voting standard that supreme court nominees are held to of 60 votes, a standard that was met
by sotomayor. nine days into the presidency, the president trump's executive orders were challenged in federal court and there was a temporary restraining order issues, and that's a record and the courts are going to play a role in the presidency of donald trump, and we want to make sure they are made up of integrity. >> do i have it right that you voted aye in the -- >> i just don't remember, on voice votes you don't make a note of it, but he's moving from aaa ball to the big leagues here and he's going to be the deciding vote on the future of the court for a long time, it appears. >> the congressional record shows you did vote in favor, and so has something changed in your
view of gorsuch since 2006 when you voted for him? >> no, when somebody moves up to the supreme court level different and important questions are asked and people are much more careful. that's the way it ought to be. i have been through five or six of these nominees so far, and we held every one of them, whether it was obama, bush, whoever, to the same standard. >> i know you came out and said you were going to vote no on the nomination of attorney general sessions, and i am curious as to the extent as to which president trump's decision to fire the attorney general the other night plays into that, whether your decision on sessions is strictly on sessions or whether that decision by the president has played into your decision on the new potential attorney general? >> to put it into context, the so-called monday night massacre, i can remember the saturday night massacre during watergate -- >> are they the same here?
>> they are the same in this respect. in this case, an acting attorney general said the president is asking me to do something which in good conscience i cannot do, and that's exactly what happened in the saturday night massacre, and president nixon had to disclose and elliott richardson said we are not going to serve a president who will fire somebody who follows the law. >> we were talking, obviously, about something that weighed specifically on richard nixon. he was following out an executive order, and let's say if ted cruz were acting attorney general and he refused to follow barack obama, an executive order, that barack obama wouldn't fire him immediately, and i know you would probably fire somebody immediately as would i, if you are not going to follow the law or implement -- it's no problem with her having a problem with it.
but somebody that is actually going to follow the law. >> more than two decades of a professional prosecutor, and she's a person of integrity and she decided in good conscience she couldn't do it and i think she knew what was going to happen? >> i think she knew what was going to happen as well, and i am saying that didn't surprise you, did it, that a president would fire somebody that refused to follow their directives? >> no, of course not. let me just add, that was the shadow over the sessions hearing yesterday. the question that was raised by the "washington post" article, which we all saw yesterday was the involvement of jeff sessions at the highest levels on these executive orders through steve miller and others. so it appears that, you know, jeff as been, at least behind the scenes in many of the key decisions. would he be willing to stand up
to president trump if he thought he was wrong? i think that was a question asked over and over yesterday. >> it's a good question. >> the problem that we have here is the president making fun of chuck schumer and his tears the other day, and some of the actions make that less likely you would not be working with him on infrastructure, is that a correct premise? >> no, it is not. we are open to constructive suggestions consistent with my values, and as far as chuck schumer, he does wear his heart on his sleeve. >> we all cried at the end of "free willy." >> he's a cryer. >> yeah, i said that before. senator, you and other democrats were invited to the ceremony,
but chose not to go. >> i would have been the prop of a rolling out of the supreme court nominee, and it did sound a lot like a reality tv show as the president made his announcement and justice gorsuch and his wife came out of the wings and there was a standing applause. i think there's a much more serious thing and we ought to take it more seriously, and i didn't want to stand there and be hypocritical about it, and i don't know enough about this man that i will applaud him all the way to the finish line. >> we let it pass the first time, but since you said it twice, i have to ask, and what about last night made it looks like the reality tv show, and -- >> there was a little bit of that. >> we didn't have that. in fact, there were reports that you didn't even have both of them near the white house. what made it looks like a reality show to you?
>> did you hear the build up, joe? hardiman is in the wings? will it be justice hardiman? >> yeah. >> that was the media doing that trying to get the ratings with the countdown clock. >> let's get this straight. >> it was no accident, believe me. no accident. >> that would be president trump knowing how to pull the strings of the media, and i don't know if i would blame trump for that. >> he decides his own style points. >> sure does. >> he showed us last night, and i didn't want to be come phreusit in something that i take seriously. >> you have ever been on manchin's houseboat before? >> on what? >> joe manchin's houseboat? >> >> yeah, several times. >> pleasant, huh.
he likes to play this down-home guy, and -- >> oh, no, this is fancy. >> he bought it in a bankruptcy sale and got a good deal on it. we all have a lot of good times on a bipartisan basis. >> we want to have a show there. >> the thing we loved about it is, he said it's always bipartisan, if there are four democrats, there has to be four republicans, and that's good. >> when he played the rock 'n' roll oldies, everybody is singing along. >> we'll do that. >> thank you. a new poll out from the "washington post" shows a young desire for young women to step up in their political involvement, and democrats under 50 say they plan to become more politically active in 2017, and a feeling shared by 40% in the
democratic women. that compares to 27% of democratic men, and 25% of americans at large desire -- >> oh, here are republicans that. >> for more political -- if you would be patient, for more republicans, it's half that. interesting. 21% of the groups say they will do more politically in 2017. i think the marches were amazing. i do hope, though, people step up as leaders for the future. especially in the democratic party. >> the question is, again, how do you convert marches to votes? >> there's no doubt there's more energy, and a wider base of opposition to president trump at this stage than there was on the right to president obama in
2009, and republicans and the tee p tea party were able to score in a big way. the big question for democrats and progressives and generals, when they do it the same way or they find another way, but can they keep the energy up and make the focus winning that control of one of the branches of congress. >> how do they get to middle america to win again those thousand legislative seats. mark, yesterday, just a correction, i said west haven, a connecticut official told me it was west haven that went 20 plus for obama and it was east haven. >> that makes more sense. >> and then plus 20 for trump. the question is, how do you change those votes and the voters in iowa where you have counties that swung 40 points. how do you do that and do these marches touch those areas? i am not sure if they do yet. >> you need an energized base and you need to appeal to those
people, and the challenge to democrats are similar to the republicans face when barack obama first got elected, no obvious leaders and no energy and decimated at the ballot box. i don't think they have done much beyond the marches to turn things around. >> it's early. >> are they going to be opposed to everything trump wants to do, or do they see a path on occasion coming back and working with him. >> the way you do this, grassroots, not in new york and not in l.a. and not in washington, d.c., but in iowa, in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania, in ohio, and in the middle of america, which democrats had been absolutely just routed over the past six to eight years on state local levels. >> just to mark's point, the hard part is, you do it on the negative side of the ballot sheet, and you have no obvious leaders, and on the positive
side -- barack obama being president allowed the democrats to be focused on individual things, and right now the left, the progressive part of the democratic party is unified against trump. >> democrats and progressives have moved past the phase, you can see in the marches, and they never thought it was going to happen in a million years, and now they are on the next phase. >> there was a little time that allowed for shock given this election. this programming note for all of you this friday. and teaming up for a new showtime documentary "trumped." >> lots in there, and you two. >> are we in it?
>> you are in the film. >> it's on this friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. >> you guys are fetching. >> i will be tweeting out in the next coming days, but i will say andrea mitchell also has a role. brian sullivan joins the table. we want to tell you about a great new initiative here at nbc. over the next month, nbc blk will reveal a profile a day to some of the most impressive innovators from intrapreneurs and athletes to artists, and they are all 28 or younger. go to nbcblk28.com, and use the #nbcblk28.
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yeah, so sounds relaxing. alright, 9:53? i usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. wouldn't it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do? yeah. introducing essential portfolios. the automated investing solution that lets you focus on your life. what? no, no. in a moment we will take a look at business leaders speaking out against the president's executive order on immigration. we'll get to that. but first -- >> oh, this is great. do you think we have crash test dummies here? >> oh -- >> roll it! >> go. >> judge neil gorsuch is president trump's choice for the supreme court.
>> the second he walked up to the microphone, he was in his element. >> he could have been a reagan or bush in terms of who he chose. >> he was making a presidential decision and did it in a presidential way. there will always be bad blood. >> it will be impossible for democrats in red states to support this guy. >> he should have a hearing and meet the standard of 60 votes. >> if this is a person or not, i don't know, and let's give the man a chance and talk to him and two wrongs don't make a right. >> it was executed horribly. >> and what sean spicer said is what they should have said, which is this is not a muslim ban. >> he talked about a ban and talked about a registry.
>> you may realize other things need to happen first before you do something like that, and people are not left at airports and protests don't erupt over the country. >> i have yet to talk to somebody that voted for donald trump that is not thrilled. >> you remember -- >> let's bring in -- >> i never understood crash test dummies. >> test crash dummies. >> did you like that? >> no. >> brian, markets were down for a third straight day. is the trump pump over? >> some are calling it the trump bump calling it into trump dump. >> the markets have rallied nicely since the election, and
in the last three days, not the case. i think some of the optimism, i don't want to say is waning, but there's an added element of confusion in there a bit, and people are starting to realize he meant what he said, and where exactly are we going with this. i think people are looking for more safety, and hey, let's make money and sell stuff and buy golds and bonds. >> what is happening on the obamacare regulatory? how is that impacting stocks? >> the house is getting started -- you will finally have legislation to talk about, because the house is getting started taking the hatchet, and there's a bunch of stuff on the chopping block. you might like this. one of the things the house may address today or tomorrow is to eliminate the fcc regulation requiring energy companies to report payments to foreign leaders. >> uh-huh. >> i'm sorry. >> what? >> yeah. >> i just thought i would throw
that out there. so if you are an energy company, you have to report your payments to foreign governments and leaders. the house is putting that regulation on the chopping block. >> why is that? >> seems a little -- >> i don't get it? >> it's exactly what it says. >> are you suggesting something? please speak palainly -- >> you guys can figure it out. these regulations are very difficult, and if we see a roll back, my guess is somebody will invoke the name of exxon and tillerson and wonder what this will be meaning for american gas and oil companies venturing into as anthony bourdain might say, parts unknown. >> what do you mean? >> when you make a payment to a foreign government, whatever you
might be, and you have to note that in your filings, and killing this regulation would eliminate the need to report that in some of your filings. >> why would you do such a thing? >> it seems like you wouldn't want to do that. >> seems like a oil and gas company would want to do that, and i don't know if you want to do that. >> we, meaning us, collectively as a society? >> yes. >> i am deeply confused. >> i feel like that could be destructive, but continue, please. >> business leaders reaction to trump's travel ban. tim cook speaking out -- >> yeah, a lot of strong voices. what does it mean? >> technology is going to speak out the most because they need people the most. if you go to silicon valley, it's a giant pool of diversity, and you bring in the best and the brightest because to do what they do takes smart people from everywhere, and doesn't matter man, woman, where you are from, they need people, if you work
hard you can get a job in silicon valley. >> were where they from 2011 to 2015? >> i don't know. >> it's one of those questioned dubbed as rhetorical? >> what i am saying, we basically had a rwanda in the middle east where children were washing up on the beaches and i didn't hear any of these people saying anything, and the timing is curious. >> there is no down to speaking out, only an upside, and b, you need people. >> they are crossing donald trump, and they didn't want to cross barack obama, and -- >> no, that would be -- it is two different -- oh, gosh. i carefully venture into this. two different things. it's one thing to criticize foreign policy, but this is a question of our fundamental values. >> i think the reality is -- >> it's like shutting syrians out for four years while hundreds of thousands were
dying, yeah. >> and i think the reason cook is speaking out there's a direct impact on apple employees, and -- >> it's connected to the world. >> still, point taken. >> that does it for us. point taken. >> crash test dummies also. >> that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks it up. >> before they start singing, i will take it over. good morning, i am stephanie ruhle. this morning we are talking about a big reveal. >> the qualifications of judge gorsuch are beyond dispute. >> i will be a faithful servant to the constitution of laws for this great country. >> praised by conservatives, but democrats are digging in for a brutal fight. >> this is a seat that was stolen from the former president obama. >> and a last stand.