tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 6, 2017 2:00am-3:01am PDT
i'm nicole wallace in for brian williams. have a great weekend. have a great weekend. in sickness and in health, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the white house took a victory lap after yesterday's health care bill cleared the house. this morning, president trump tweeted, big win in the house. very exciting. but when everything comes together with the inclusion of phase 2, we will have truly great health care. anyway, a spokesman for the white house told reporters never underestimate this president when he's committed to something, it's going to get done. well, yesterday republicans voted by a razor-thin margin to
approve a health care bill that would gut many components of the affordable care act and cover fewer people according to the congressional budget office, which looked at an earlier version. 24 million more people will be uninsured over a decade now. republicans apparently needed a little inspiration yesterday before the vote. according to the associated press, catch this. like boxers before a big fight, republicans pumped themselves up with a pounding music of the 1980s anthem "eye of the tiger." that's of course from -- well, it is of course from "rocky 3." and "taking care of business." after the vote they were in a mood to celebrate. according to the hill, quote, shortly after the narrow 217-213 vote, the gop conference celebrated with beer and cigars and went to the white house rose garden for victory speeches. well, the vice president -- white house staffers, vice president, cheered, grinned, smirked, and high-fived one another down at the white house yesterday. the celebration of course is
premature. the next stop is the u.s. senate, and some republican senators over there indicate they will start from scratch on health care rather than tweak the house bill. so what about the oval office celebration? ruth mark is a columnist for "the washington post." jeremy peters is a reporter for the new york times. clarence page. ruth, i was thinking when i watched those four smiles yesterday at the white house, this is what it's like in pyongyang, in north korea, where you have to have the same expression for kim jong-un or else you get executed. fixed grins and smirks all around. >> well, maybe like in north korea, they were simply relieved to manage to be there and not be hauled off in some way. >> what about the pressure on them? i'll tell you one thing, when you see a vote that's 217, that meant they didn't waste any votes. they couldn't pressure any more people. they didn't want to cost any more votes than they did because they wanted to save as least 20 guys. >> you saw members from swing
districts from colorado, florida, pennsylvania, new york to vote against this for that exact reason. for one of the first times in american history, we are taking something away from people instead of giving it to them through legislation. and every 2018 -- >> it's like being taken off an airplane once you're on it, right? >> exactly. these democrats are going to remind voters of that over and over and over again. >> i was thinking that the music will be -- there will be music in these 30-second ads that are coming next year starting in the spring. i get the feeling -- clarence, you know this business as well as i do. the democrats have been waiting for this. >> i was thinking of the song "who's sorry now," but there's a lot of different songs bouncing around. >> connie francis, right? our generation. >> they were singing the hey, hey, good-bye song, some of the democrats were yesterday, which the white sox used to use before they got back to the world series in the '80s. but anyway, this has been a strange situation because you're absolutely right. taking away something from the people, comparison to the airline flight is a good one. i hadn't thought of that.
that's something that's just not done. now they're on the verge of doing it, and they're breaking out the beer, maybe champagne after fez 2, i don't know if they can get through it. still, i don't now how they're going to reconcile this whole package. >> they have to do this phase two because of this reconciliation thing which is probably a skeleton effort. they have to go through the senate. the senate has made it pretty clear they're not as right wing as the freedom caucus in the house at all. >> the senate has in some ways the same situation the republicans had in the house. there are some people who have said they only want repeal. and there are some people who want way more replacement than the house bill contains. and the senate of course has way less wiggle room than house republicans do. 52 republican senators. do the math.
you can't lose very many. so on the verge might be giving it a little bit more credit for where it is. that's a very narrow and steep curve. >> well you can only lose two members. two members out of 52 because you've got to get 50 to pass this with the vice president's vote. >> i'm not sure how much the white house has really thought about that and gamed it out. i was really struck in my conversations with white house officials that the house vote was about getting the process started more than anything else. it wasn't about they could get through the senate and what they can get done in conference. i mean they just were so desperate to look like a functioning body, that the white house is functioning instead of looking like it's dysfunctional. that was the real goal here. an yes, they've achieved that for now. but how long does it last? i mean this is a white house that has shown a real knack for stepping on its own message.
>> i think of a guy getting on first in a baseball game. how many times are they stranded? how many times are they left on base is normal. anyway, last night president trump delivered a surprising compliment to his -- this is really ironic -- his australian counterpart on australia's health care system. take a look at what the president actually said and then how senator bernie sanders, who is a socialist, responded. >> right now obamacare is failing. we have a failing health care -- i shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from australia because you have better health care than we do. >> they have universal health. >> oh, okay. wait a minute. wait a minute, chris. all right. the president has just said it. that's great. let's take a look at the australian health care system. thank you, mr. president. let us move to a medicare for all system that does what every other major country on earth does, guarantee health care to all people at a fraction of the cost per capita that we spend. thank you, mr. president. we'll quote you on the floor of the senate. >> australia has universal health care as many people know. it's had socialist governments of course in and out, but it's paid for by the government, just like bernie sanders would like to see in this country. actually president trump's spokesperson today said he was simply being -- the president was simply being complimentary to the prime minister. later this afternoon, president
trump reiterated his point, tweeting, of course the australians have better health care than we do. everybody does. obamacare is dead, but our health care system will soon be great. you know, i get the feeling, clarence and everybody, that eventually after all the rigamarole of obamacare and all the problems with it and the fact that republicans don't want to fix it and democrats won't have a chance to fix it and they're a little bit afraid to fix it anyway, we're going to end up with something like medicare. >> a single payer, yeah. i've been saying that for years. >> and have no idea where the money is coming because now, the first paper you throw as a kid, you are paying into social security until you're 60-something or 70-something, all that so you can get health coverage in your 70s and 80s as long as you live, right? that's the medicare system. so when bernie says medicare for all, that's not honest. it doe't mean anythingecause you get it from the time you're born. who's paying? >> it's when it gets paid out. that's what makes it medicare
for all because -- [ overlapping voices ] >> anyway, i'll go with him on that one. >> politically speaking here, whether or not republicans are able to do something at all in the congress is going to be a huge burden going into 2018 because take this georgia race, for example. republican voters down there were deeply demoralized over the fact that the congress had failed its first attempt to repeal obamacare because it showed that they just -- not only did they not honor their promise, but they couldn't govern. they couldn't get anything done. they were dysfunctional. so if there isn't some -- and i'm not even saying it has to be on health care. but if it's not on some big issue like tax reform or infrastructure or whatever is in president trump's hopper, if they don't get something done, if they don't have something to show to the voters in 2018, forget it. >> so winning is good? >> winning is good, but i wouldn't necessarily call this an outright win for trump. yet. >> is this better for ossoff in georgia? >> no. i think republicans think that too.
republicans looking at that race were really worried if they blew this vote in the house that that would elect ossoff. >> can you explain how losing is better? i don't get this. >> it's the tension that's at the heart of the republican dilemma, right? on the one hand if they didn't manage to get this vote and get it through the house, they would look like the absolute do-nothing even with control of everything congress. and if they do get it -- >> no. i'm saying the opposite. if republicans had blown this vote, if it had collapsed again, that that would have helped ossoff. it would have hurt the republicans. >> if they do do something, imagine what ossoff is going to do when the congressional budget office comes out with its score. last time around, it said it would remove protection from 24 million people. they're going to be reduced to saying, well, cbo can't score this. there's too many moving parts. pay no attention to that cbo score. >> but cbo has a good reputation. there's been too many times that both parties have looked to it.
anyway, the republican bill that just passed the other day, yesterday, will increase the number of uninsured americans, reduce the number of lower income people with coverage, slash medicaid spending, and increase costs for some people with pre-existing conditions. i'd say it's going to increase costs. those are all things donald trump promised repeatedly not to happen. let's watch him say that. >> you're saying obamacare -- >> it's got to go. repeal and replace with something terrific. >> and the terrific is? >> the terrific will be plans that can be done by private companies. >> everybody has got to be covered. i am going to take care of everybody. i don't care if it costs me votes or not. everybody is going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. >> we're going to come up with health care plans that will be so good and so much less expensive both for the country and the people and so much better. >> what do we do with the folks who fall through the cracks? >> we're going to take care of that through the medicaid system. we're going to take care of those people. we have no choice. we're not going to let people die on the streets. >> she wants to knock the hell
out of your medicare and medicaid, and i'm going to save them, okay? this is a little reversal for the democrat-republican, but i'm going to save them. >> i want to keep pre-existing condition. i think we need it. i think it's the modern age and i think we have to have it. >> well, the question is -- i'm not sure. you know, when tim russert used to be here, a great guy, he used to have a very simple thing. he would go over to people on "meet the press," and say, let's take a look at what you said three years ago. and then a total 180. we live in a world today where -- whatever he says last month or yesterday, two minutes ago, doesn't seem to matter to his people. >> to his people, yeah. >> they don't seem to be keeping score in the normal -- like george will said the other day in his column, does he know what knowing means? >> right. >> it doesn't even matter to his people. it's weird. >> don't you believe that face? no matter what, when he says we're going to cut it, and we're going to give you more at the same time with a straight face, and his followers say, oh, that's wonderful. he's getting stuff done. >> they also think that we're
exaggerating his failed promises and his contradictions. they think that the media is to blame here. so when we report stories about the dysfunction in his oval office or the fact that he's reversed himself on a campaign promise, oh, that's just media spin. >> when is it going to cut? when is it going to bite, when people are going to say this is not what iot for >> some of it is predictions and those predictions are going to take a while to come true and to transition to say different system. but some of them is self-evidently not what he promised to do and the primary one of those is medicaid. $880 billion over the next decade cut out of medicaid.
i just saw it on your screen, he promised not to touch it. how do you explain that one? >> well, that's poor people. >> well, that's a good point. >> do they care? do the trump voters care about poor people? >> well, you know, the medicaid expansion -- >> and the ones who -- >> maybe not as much. >> and the ones who voted for him because they were hard hit financially during the great recession, expecting their lives to get better, you asked when does this catch up with him? it catches up with him when they don't feel anything in their pocketbooks? >> i'm not sure when that is. when does trump matter on health care or anything else? >> when he's backed into a corner, he'll blame obama. mark my words. >> will christmas time be a time of year when people say, this guy is not what he said he was going to somebody when will that matter? >> when he doesn't build the wall. >> really? >> when he doesn't build the wall. as conservatives time after time after time, that was the central promise of his campaign for so many of them. if he doesn't build that wall. >> they're fundamentalists. >> ask your friend ann coulter. this is what she thinks. >> thank you. coming up, as health care dominates the headlines, the investigation continues into trump's connections to russia. the senate intelligence committee wants former trump adviser carter page to turn over a list of his russian contacts, and any communications he's had with them. we'll have the latest on that next.
plus jack schlossberg, the grandson of president john f. kennedy on why another president, barack obama, will receive the jfk profile and courage award this sunday. and as president trump continues to tear down the obama legacy, which democrat is going to emerge the to lead the party out of the trump wilderness? the independent bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, obama himself, or will someone in the new generation rise up? finally tonight let me finish with trump watch for this friday night. this is "hardball," where the action is. nobody does underwater stunts, sylvia. except me, of course. this is my stop. adios! ♪ if you're a stuntman, you cheat death. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. número uno!
join me sunday night at 8:00 eastern for live coverage of president obama as he receives the profile in courage award. we'll have the big event at the jfk library including speeches from both the former president and the former first lady, michelle obama. that's coming up sunday at 8:00 on msnbc. we'll be right back.
committee is putting its foot on the gas in its investigation into the russian influence into the 2016 election. the committee is looking at whether any trump associate worked with the russian intelligence operation to plant fake news stories to hurt hillary clinton and benefit donald trump. well, the committee was asked or has asked former trump adviser carter page to provide a lit of his contacts with russian officials and turn over any e-mails or other communications with russians according to a letter he provided to nbc news signed by republican chairman richard burr and mark warner of the senate intelligence committee. "the new york times" is reporting similar letters were sent to former trump advisers roger stone, michael flynn, and paul manafort. that's my list anyway. page told "the new york times," quote, although i will help in any way i can, please note any records i may have saved as a private citizen will be minuscule in comparison to the
full database of information which has already been collected under last year's completely unjustified fisa warrant. well, ken dilanian is a national security adviser, reporter for nbc news, and ken vogel is chief investigative reporter for politico. gentlemen, first of all -- ken, where is this start something it seems to me we had word a couple of days ago that that committee on the senate side was flagging. that warner and burr weren't doing the job. now this looks pretty aggressive. what's going on with the speed change? >> that's exactly right, chris. i think we can read into this that there was some pressure put on these guys and they've accelerated their investigation. they spent weeks basically sifting through fbi and cia intelligence documents, and now they're into the information-gathering phase on their own. now, the interesting thing about this is presumably these are all records that the fbi already has. but the fbi is not necessarily going to share the fruits of a criminal investigation with this
senate investigation. so the senate is now trying to get it on their own. this is a precursor to a subpoena. if these men don't comply, presumably the committee can issue a subpoena and demand these documents, chris. >> who has the best information from wiretapping internationally? if the trump people were talking to russian officials, especially russian intel people, spies, why wouldn't the cia have that stuff? >> well, the nsa would have it, and the cia would have some of it. that's the reason these senate intel lawmakers are going to ft. meade and looking at all that. but this is the way they can independently gather their own information just to make sure they're covering all their bases, chris. >> what do you think about them undermining the investigation itself? how is that going to work? >> the russians, you mean? the russians are definitely attempting to discredit the investigation, to sow chaos. they're still at it because they have not been deterred in any
way whatsoever. there's just been a leak in the french presidential election. they're hacking that election as well. you know, policymakers here are really at their wits end about how do you deter this behavior. how do you stop it, chris? >> you first, then ken. who does the kremlin want to win in france? >> le pen. le pen is obviously the nationalist. she's closer to trump, and macron is more of a globalist if you will in the terminology of the trump folks. but on the russia efforts to discredit the investigation, my intelligence sources, chris and ken, say that that's fear that that's already happening. and they have long feared there was actually information that russians planted in this dossier by this former british spy that was false, that was intended to discredit the whole thing and to use that to discredit the fbi investigation because of course we know the fbi has looked at and even used this dossier as a little bit of a basis for their investigation. that is something that they worry about intensely going forward, not just looking at what's already been done.
>> why would the ex-mi 6 guy, who is so credible in the world, allow that to happen? >> well, he wouldn't know it would be happening. that's the theory at least here. >> wouldn't he be wary of spies from the former kgb types to be trying to do that? i don't know. do you buy that? do you actually buy that the mi 6 dossier is corrupted by the russians? >> i think -- i've also been told that by intelligence sources, that there is a strong chance that the russians were running disinformation at christopher steele, and he may have, you know, factored that in. i mean he just said recently in a court filing that this is information that needed to be vetted and verified. don't forget he wasn't actually physically in russia. he's paying a group of collectors, people that he trusts, to talk to their sources in russia and gather this information. so certainly there's a chance that some of it's false.
in fact, some of it has already been debunked by the fbi. >> well, the bedroom stuff i wonder. that wld be certainly juicy stuff, ken vogel, to sort of poison the whole report. >> that's exactly right, chris, although that might not necessarily be definitively debunkable whereas some of the other things perhaps could be definitively debunked. -- has said he was not in prague, let alone at the time the dossier puts him in prague. stuff like that would fit with the pattern that the russians have used in the past to try to discredit, you know, anything, but in particular an investigation like this. and it wouldn't necessarily be a russian spy who would give steele's source that but rather the russian intelligence service would find a way to plant that information somewhere, where it would eventually get to steele's source. >> what about this story i've been reading about today that the russians are planting fake news? it's getting bigger now. ken, you first. both of you. give me some examples of fake news that found its way into the bloodstream in the last
ewelcome back election here, if you will? >> so clint watts, who is now an analyst for nbc news, has been writing about this for a long time. he tells a story of a fake story about a terrorist attack in incirlik air base in turkey. it was actually just a protest of a few hundred people. but some fake news started emanating from twitter and from russian state-backed media. and a week later, paul manafort went on cnn and talked about this terrorist attack that happened at this turkish air base and why isn't the media covering it. it was totally bogus and it was an example of fake news infecting the bloodstream of the presidential race. >> both of you kens, quick answer. yes or no? are the russians still able to screw with our election process? >> absolutely. we've done -- there's almost nothing that we've done to stop it thus far other than shore up the election system a bit. >> so look out, 2018. same with you, ken vogel? >> i mean they can influence our politics. whether they can actually tip an election or not, i think -- i, again, haven't seen any evidence of that. >> thanks so much for the latest.
they can screw around with our campaigns, not the count. thank you, gentlemen. have a nice weekend. up next, this year marks the 100th anniversary of president kennedy's birth. when we come back, we're going to be joined by jack schlossberg on why the kennedy family has chosen president obama for a profile in courage award this weekend. this is "hardball," where the action is. what's it like to be in good hands? like finding new ways to be taken care of. home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh... but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. oh yes.... even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands.
top stories. washington post is reporting that former national security adviser michael flynn was warned by the trump administration team about his contact with the russian ambassador. the campaign leaders for the leading candidate in france's presidential election tomorrow says it's been targeted by a massive hacking operation. campaign officials say they mixed fake documents with real ones to create misinformation. now back to hardball. we choose to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills. because that challenge is one
that we're willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win. and the others too. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president kennedy at rice university back in 1962 when he laid out the bold vision of landing a man on the moon within the decade. this sunday, former president barack obama will be awarded the john f. kennedy profile in courage award up in boston. you can join me on msnbc for special coverage for those two hours. the profile in courage award, barack obama. live sunday night from the presidential library and museum up in boston starting at 8:00 on sunday. we'll be there for two hours through 10:00. i'm now joined by special guest president kennedy's only grandson and committee member who helped pick the winner this year, jack schlossberg. you're all out of school now. you're about to go to harvard law. my god, unbelievable. you got it all. yale undergrad, harvard law. you'll be ready to run for office soon. what do you think? >> thanks for having me, chris. yeah, major plot twist, i'm going to harvard.
>> what about going into politics? do you think you will? >> well, i'm 24 years old. focused right now on getting through this interview with you, playing "hardball." we'll see what happens. >> you've got a year to be eligible for the house and six years for the senate. >> i'm not looking at that right now, chris. i'm still trying to find my way. >> we were told you liked the speech we just showed and it doesn't get as much attention, but it has a roar to it, a thrilling commitment to taking on the tough chances. putting a man on the moon, which i'm still amazed we did. i've still got the newspapers, jack, of front pages where we put a man on the moon. why did that grab you, that speech at rice? >> that's my favorite of my grandfather's speeches because i think his whole personal at comes through. i never got to meet him but i got to know him through these speeches. in that speech he improvises. he's funny. he makes a couple jokes. he asked why do we choose to go to the moon? why does rice play texas? not because it's easy, because it's hard. you can see his sense of humor, his personality, and you could also see how ambitious he was
and how he believed that america could do anything if americans set their minds to it. and he set the goal of landing on the moon within a decade. of course we landed on the moon well before a decade was up. so that's why it's my favorite speech, and it inspires me to believe that great challenges are actually opportunities and that we can rise to the occasion if we decide to. >> you know, one of the dramatic moments in the 2008 election, as you remember, was when your family, your mom and your uncle, ted kennedy, and your cousin patrick all got up there at that stage at american university -- we're looking at the picture right now at au -- and really put the sort of good housekeeping seal of approval on barack obama. your mom had already written that op-ed piece for "the new york times" that sunday that everybody was embraced by. now we're watching this sort of very formal, historic embrace between your uncle ted and barack obama. why do you think your family
just said, here's the torch. carry on, to barack obama from the kennedy family? >> well, president obama inspired me in 2008 with his vision for america. he is a hopeful candidate who had a bold vision for this country and knew that we could succeed if our politics were just a little less cynical and a little more productive. and i think my uncle teddy and my mom recognized that vision in him, and they saw a leader who could get the job done and, of course, we're all so happy to have been proven right. president obama was a tremendous president whose list of accomplishments is long and distinguished. i don't think that -- i think if my uncle teddy were here today, he'd be proud to stand by that endorsement. >> in a statement announcing the award, youaid that president obama, embodied the definition of courage, grace under pressure, that's hemmingway, of course. and you noted his accomplishments on health care, climate change, and cuba. let's watch president obama in action on some of those issues. >> today after almost a century of trying, today after over a
year of debate, today after all the votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the united states. >> today the world has officially crossed the threshold for the paris agreement to take effect. today the world meets the moment. >> today the united states of america is changing its relationship with the people of cuba. we will end an outdated approach that for decades has failed to advance our interests and, instead, we will begin to normalize relations between our two countries. >> boy, jack, i can't imagine -- i'm working on another book on your family, on bobby this time. i have to tell you i can't imagine a bigger change, a 180 change from the views of a lot of americans including the kennedy family back then to now about cuba. fidel castro was the enemy. he executed hundreds of people when he took office, betrayed democracy, betrayed his
commitment to democracy, brought in the communists, made an alliance with the soviet union against us. when kids like me kids at the time were all rooting for him and he betrayed us, and now we're back with his somewhat more pathetic brother raul there, it's fading but not quick enough. what do you think obama did to deal with that situation? do ah agree with what he did to open the door? >> on the cuba question, i think the president made the right choice. i think he recognized that if our country -- two countries were to be more connected and to learn from each other and to have freer exchange and trade, that ultimately it would be productive for both countries. i think we're seeing that's true. i think the cuban economy has improved since the embargo was lifted and relations have been normalized, and i think the outpouring of excitement that you see in america from so many
people eager to go to cuba and the economic opportunity that american businesses have shown in going to cuba, i think that clearly shows that policy was outdated and the president was right to change it. >> are you hopeful we'll see democracy in cuba again? >> i'm not a cuba expert. i'm not going to predict whether or not cuba is going to have a democratic government anytime soon. i personally am a fan of democracy. i hope they do. but we'll have to see. >> i'm not very hopeful. anyway, thank you, jack schlossberg. have a great weekend. this is a very important weekend for president obama. i'm glad you people, you especially, got up there to make this nomination. i think it's going to be a very positive night on sunday night up at columbia point, the kennedy museum. our coverage of -- by the way, i want to talk to you afterwards. our profile in courage award program comes up on sunday night at 8:00 eastern here. we'll be on from 8:00 to 10:00 sunday night. up next, as republicans dismantle much of the obama legacy, which democrat will emerge to lead the democratic party out of the trump wilderness? that's next with the roundtable. you're watching "hardball," where the action is.
what matters most is that now we've got to get out there and talk about what we're going to fight for, what democrats are going to fight for, that we're really going to be out there to fight for working people across this country. and i just think that's what we've got to keep hammering on. we've got to make it happen because people are counting on us. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was massachusetts senator elizabeth warren of course on "hardball" this week, stressing the need for resistance against president trump. but the democratic took a blow yesterday when house republicans passed trumpcare, though democrats now have something to fight for of course. slate's jeremy stall argued that the party is rudderless right now. he wrote the party was essentially allowed to play possum by democratic leaders like warren. cheering the defeat of the first effort rather than realizing a new opposition needed to be fought for. well, as democrats work on
presenting a united front ahead of the 2018 primaries, they've sent 2016 contender bernie sanders out with dnc chair tom perez to shore up enthusiasm for the party around the country, but it's a party sanders insists -- well, he's not even a part of. let's watch him. >> do you consider yourself a democrat? >> no. i'm an independent, and i think if the democratic party is going to succeed -- and i want to see it succeed -- it's going to have to open its doors to independents, who there are probably more independents in this country than either democrats or republicans. >> i'm joined by the "hardball" roundtable, ginger gibson, of reuters, daily beast michael tomasky, and gianno caldwell. you're going to be last. you're not in this situation, neither is bernie technically. first question. who would you put on television, prime-time, 9:00 east coast time against president trump to make the best case for the democratic rty right now. >> amy klobuchar okirsten gillibrand. they are both strong. they know the issues and they will provide a real juxtaposition. they're consistent liberals with a track record who can talk about what's actually happening
in washington. they are names that have been floated as candidates before. and i think they're the exact kind of people -- >> they're both running for president. >> they are an they could do the job. >> kirsten gillibrand, the senator from new york, and amy klobuchar of minnesota. >> yes. >> that's a pretty good answer. put them on tv against each other. >> for the best hour of tv, bernie. now, the asterisk, he's not a democrat. so if you want to limit it to democrats, maybe elizabeth warren. i'd like to see her and trump go toe to toe. >> who would win? you know how he's scored. they ask who won and they go to a vote. >> of course. i think warren would hit. but here's my dark horse candidate. al franken. >> i was about a half a second ahead of you because he knows tv, and he's funny. >> yes. >> and he could cut him up. >> he would. >> and he wouldn't be afraid of him. >> he wouldn't be afraid at all. >> you guys keep mentioning -- >> mr. republican, sir. what do you think would be the
strongest opponent against your president? >> going back to that bernie sanders point, simone sanders kept telling me he's a democratic socialist, and she of course was his press secretary during the campaign. i would say the silver bullet would be michelle obama. remember when she would go after trump, everybody cheered. trump never went after her on twitter, never really went out there on twitter. the points were always strong. republicans and democrats all agree that michelle obama was a very powerful tool for the democratic party. >> i think that may draw the biggest audience. >> absolutely. >> second question. project now. maybe you have the same answers. here we are in may of '17. may of 2020, when you're looking into the summer before the election, who's the best candidate as you look ahead? you've got to go with age issues here at some point. >> some of the names that everyone is floating but i'm going to offer a dark horse. a governor elected in the next year and a half, between now and 2018 mid terms. >> a newbie? >> right. you can come out with a lot of forces. democrats are going to have to be focusing on these races, winning back statehouses.
we saw it with republicans in '12. looking at young faces. >> i think that's smart. you mean somebody in their 40s? >> maybe their early 50s. maybe with a business career, maybe who is well known in a state. and is going to run -- >> hot off the bench. >> hot off the bench. >> i've heard that theory too. you don't want a guy with a lot of targets on their back. >> on paper, the best looking candidate to me right now is sherrod brown from ohio. >> you know who i was pushing last time for v.p. the whole time. it didn't do me any good. >> he's got genuine working class populist -- >> talks like a working guy. >> he wears those ohio suits. exactly the -- >> what is an ohio suit? i've heard of the full cleveland. it's a white belt with white shoes. >> whatever suit sherrod brown is wearing, that's an ohio suit, i guess. >> even though he went to yale. >> he gets those voters back. >> it's interesting to me. being the only millennial on
this panel, i must say that democrats, especially young millennials, still like bernie sanders. i know he's not a fresh, new name, but he definitely has the enthusiasm of the democratic voters. and even some of those folks that may stop liking trump, though trump voters, because as you know -- >> who would trump pay or pray for as his opponent in 2020 if he runs again? >> you know what -- >> i'm asking you from the republican side. wouldn't he want him? >> you know what is interesting to me? hillary clinton seems like she's trying to stay in the game, and i don't see why. she's trying to go further to the left with this new political action committee. >> she's with the resistance. >> right, the resistance, but it's a progressive. they're going to get the progressive groups. i think that's where he may think because she's easily beatable at this point. i think she'll continue to be. >> oh my god, stephenson ran three times. i think democrats shoot their wounded. i don't think they're big at keeping them back. republicans run bob dole again and again. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. be right back.
we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. first up, ginger, tell me something i don't know. >> democrats made a big concession in this budget fight when they passed a spending bill this week. they backed away from a requirement that defense and domestic funding cuts be equal, and that's something that's kept domestic programs funded. >> defense is higher this time. >> defense is higher. that could have long-term reverberating effects. >> why did they give on that? >> i think it was because they got other things that they wanted, and you can see it as a concession that makes sense. >> you noted in your first segment that if mcconnell loses three republicans on health care, it's done. the three to watch are heller of nevada, carlins of maine, and murkowski of alaska. >> two women and a state with a lot of working people who are union. >> who's up in '18.
>> i've got three as wel three republican congressmen attempted to hold their vote to the very end. congressmen peters, roskam, and holcomb. peters, roskam -- all three republicans from illinois, i should say. they ended up voting for it so they didn't get beat up over the head by trump on twitter. >> are they going to beat up next november? >> i don't think they will, but i think republicans will get beat up if this version of the house goes over to the senate and nothing gets done eventually. >> you're exposed, you're right. that's the worst of both possible worlds. you took a tough vote and nothing got done. thank you. coming up, actor paul sorvino. a rare trump supporter in hollywood and an interesting discovery we made about the 45th president coming up. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. being presid
pan with just a little oil. it was a very good system. >> welcome back to "hardball." learning the right way to make a marinara sauce from pauly in "goodfellas." now with his own cookbook with his wife. a rare breed in hollywood, a trump supporter, joining me now. we'll get to the cookbook but i have to ask you about being a trump guy in the world of hollywood which everyone thinks is fairly left politically. >> i don't care about that. i'm an actor, singer, chef, all kinds of things. here's the book. it's a big book. that i'm good at. trump has been a friend of mine for 30 years. i've always known him as a really good guy.
i just think we ought to give him a chance. he's only been there a short while. >> what about the wall across mexico, do you think it matters? >> i think it's a good idea if it can get done. can it? we all -- look, the country's border -- just the way you lock your door at night to bed with the family, there's a reason for that. we don't want unwanted people. we want people we invite. i think he's right there. >> let me ask you about a funny thing of trump's personality, from "goodfellas," jimmy two-times. >> he got that name because he said everything twice like -- >> i'm going to get the papers, get the papers. >> going and get the papers, get the papers. president trump likes to emphasize his words by repeating them. let's watch president two time. >> a great disappointment. i was very disappointed. >> doesn't matter if it's next
week. next week doesn't matter. >> pavarotti, friend of mine. great friend of mine. >> paul, is that a good memory -- a good trick for people that don't pay attention, they hear it twice, they try to make it twice? >> no commented, no comment. >> i remember food in "goodfellas," clemens with the tommy gun in "god father" making tadd food. from is the the sopranos," the priest could talk about food. he would say, with the food, this weird sexual restraint. what is it about italians and food? go for it. >> american people eat to live. italian people live to eat. for us it's the way we express love, the heroism of the momma. our food is so good here and in italy. it's getting better here. look, american food is pizza, spaghetti and meat balls, hero sandwiches. we're very much mainstream
italian here in american, everywhere. >> you know, what i love about going to italy whenever i get a chance to go over there a few times, one fim you get to the restaurant, no matter how many kids they have waiting for you, they say, come in, we'll open another table. >> they big hearts, love their children their old people. we have something in common. >> that's right? >> we're both tenors. >> so am i. >> the book is called "pea notice, pasta, partieses" by paul sorvino. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball" where the action is.
new trump watch friday, may 5, 2017. john f. kennedy created the rose garden for seeing off young peace corps volunteers, for paying honor to the courageous. yesterday donald trump used kennedy's garden for a smirking round of mutual self-congratulations. let's facet, there was something sfoersed about those smiles. it was like those public events in north korea where everyone has the same reg mentalal expression on their face for, i assume, fear of execution. what are they smirking about? why are they making an effort to
seem so damned happy? perhaps they can hear the tv ads nailing them for the health insurance? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "the rachel mad dough" show starts right now. >> it's happening again. almost the exact same thing that happened in our presidential election last year starting first in july and then again in october. a mirror image of that exact attack that was carried out on our election to try to hurt hillary clinton and throw the election to donald trump, that attack that u.s. intelligence agencies now say definitively was carried out by the russian government, russian intelligent services and the russian military intelligence unit, that same exact attack is happening again tonight and this time it is happening in france on the eve of their incredibly consequential presidential election which happens this sunday.