tv MSNBC Live MSNBC May 22, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
news" tonight on the president's first trip to jerusalem live. first, ali velshi picks it up live. >> we're following a jam packed day. president trump is in israel now. he has prayed at the western wall. there he is meeting with president netanyahu and his wife. president trump put his hand on the wall, remain there'd a few moments. this is a very significant moment. he is the first sitting president ever to have done that. president obama had done it in the past but it was before he was president of the united states. this of course follows president trump's trip to saudi arabia. and many people are saying that the success that he has had here has been tremendous. but whether it leads to his mission of achieving peace between israel and palestine is yet to be seen. ivanka trump, first lady melania
trump, it was deeply meaning tofl visit the holiest site of her faithful here's some of what we heard from president trump. >> i have come to this sacred and ancient land to reaffirm the unbreakable bond between the united states and the state of israel. >> you mark the defeating of isis as one of your top missions. >> the united states and israel can declare with one voice that iran must never be allowed to possess a nuclear weapon. never, ever. this includes a renewed effort at peace between the israelis and the palestinians, and i thank the prime minister for his commitment to pursuing the peace process. he is working very hard at it. it is not easy.
i have heard it is one of the toughest deals of all. but i have a feeling that we're going to get there eventually. >> he's heard it is one of the toughest deals of all. meanwhile the dark cloud of the russia investigation. today we learned that michael flynn is planning to invoke his fifth amendment right in response to a subpoena from the senate intelligence community. we should note it is expected to say he is invoking his rights not to incriminate himself and that is not an admission of guilt. earlier we heard from president trump about the meeting we had russian officials the day of a he fired james comey. the president said, he never mentioned the word israel as the source of the classified intelligence about isis during meeting. we heard from netanyahu about the status of intel sharing between the u.s. and israel. >> just so you understand, i
never mentioned the word or the name israel. 97 mentioned it. so you had to know story. never mentioned the word israel. >> important to note that h.r. mcmaster said the president didn't even know the source of the information. there hasn't been any reporting that he mentioned israel. it was information, the intelligence that was glean that had he mentioned to the russians. i want to bring in kelly o'donnell who is following latest. a very busy day for the president in jerusalem. give us the highlights. >> reporter: well, right now there is a celebratory display in the air, fireworks. so if you hear crackling and banging behind me, it feels like the fourth of july here in jerusalem with an extended display of fireworks. today for president trump, this is a wait for him to try to continue showing himself on a global stage. something that is brand new to
his presidency with high snakes high ambitions about what he might be able to accomplish with partners in the middle east. from sunni countries like saudi arabia from which he just came. here in israel with his long time friend benjamin netanyahu, and tomorrow with mahmoud abbas who will be meeting with president trump, trying to find a way for them to sort of restart conversations trying to bring about peace. the trump administration has been on the outer rim of all of this. trying to find ways to sort of challenge how things are done, to build on relationship and friendship and putting aside the most thorny matters, in order to get people at the table and to again relating. they've set out ambitious goals. that means there is high potential for failure on this. at the same time, the president is finding some sort and some unity between stops one and two because he's been talking about
randle in particularly harsh tones. something both saudi arabia and israel were happy to hear. here's the president. >> very grateful to the united states, because iran negotiated a fantastic deal with the previous administration. we also gave them an ability to continue with all the things they've been doing. >> reporter: so the president who had said he would tear up that deal has not yet done so. but he is certainly stoking some of the concern that's israel has about iran and taking the side of israel. also in the sunni part of the world, meeting with leaders from the arab conference, the muslim conference of leaders. also striking that same note again shia dominant iran. and one context of benjamin
netanyahu's context was an implicit criticism of president obama who had tried to forge that relationship with iran to stifle their ability to have nuclear weapons. so there are many layers to what is nap. there's history in this trip, certainly consequential foreign matters and religious overtones as the president is trying to be a part of three great world religions with these stops in the home of judaism, and going to rome to meet the pope. it has been eventful. the president has largely stuck on script with the exception of. one moment where he was talking about never having spoken to israel with respect to intelligence matters. >> all right. you've set up our discussion very well. thank you for that. i want to bring in nbc news bill neely. he is the former israeli consul general based in new york.
thank you for being here. trump has much to the delight of the sunni arab leaders and benjamin netanyahu effectively conflatd islamic terrorism in iran in a way that is a common enemy against whom the u.s., israel and the arabs can unite. it might be effective but a gross oversimplification of what's going on in the middle east and it gives sunni arab gulf states a pass in the role that they've played in the growth of terrorism. >> yes. i think his comments will have delighted benjamin netanyahu and made those remarks on iran. i'm surprised by the vociferousness of the roorks ir, on the remarks of iran. it started in saudi arabia. ironically, saudi arabia, a country with no history of elections, president trump
criticized iran the day after iran held a presidential election in which you know, tens of millions of people, including women, voted. i was struck. i was inside arabia yesterday and i was instruction that the united states president was in the city talking about terrorist combination in the city of riyadh where osama bin laden was born. he was in the country from where 11 of the 19 9/11hijackers came. donald trump a new yorker. so there are ironies there. saudi arabia with a questionable human rights record, involved in a dirty war with yemen. and yet he is ticking off iran so much and also lumping as the united states does, hamas into the iranian backed groups at a time when he is trying to entice palestinians, possibly including hamas supporters, into some kind
of peace talks with israel. as you said at the beginning, it is convenient at the moment. it is a common enemy for saudi arabia and israel and it suits the first three days of this trip very well endeed. >> stand by. good to see you. i spoke with your successor, and we were discussing this whole issue of iran versus sunni extremism as it relates to israel. israel has a problem. it has annapolhamas. it is not one big warm hug for israel. >> i think it is a big mistakes for israeli prime ministers and american presidents to try to settle the account between shias and sunnis. it is a long fight and it won't work. if you connect the dots, hamas,
and the islamic jihad, and al qaeda and isis are all sunni. yet at the same time, iran with which israel used to have 30 years ago, 40 years ago, an aalliance of sorts. iran is shiite. so we're in a vortex right here. but to choose sides as prime minister netanyahu is trying, and i think this is a major flaw in his understanding of the region to. draw an israel stwanands with t modern coalition with the shiites. >> "new york times" michael schmidt is joining us as well. >> to have you here. president trump just said in a clip, that the word israel was never mentioned.
your reporting is different. in your reporting, did president trump mention to the russians that it was intelligence gleaned from israel? or just intelligence that they could figure out? >> as he said, he never used the word israel. so it is a bit of a straw man. what was an issue was intelligence from the israel business the russians could figure it out came from them. this was stuff that related to an isis plot. the israelis had given us this information under certain terms. and there was only so much we could do with this information. the white house would say the president didn't know where it came from and he didn't really know what he was doing with it. >> let me and you about that. is there much of a kerfuffle about this in israel as there is here? >> yes. in fact there were two former heads of mossad who said we
should rethink this. i don't think that will happen. because for that matter, the mi 6, are going to share information despite or in spite of what a respective leaders say. however, it was a big deal. i don't know that is the source was israeli or partially israeli. >> you make an interesting point. >> under president obama, the intelligence relationship with israel was not weakened one bit. >> what do you mean? >> it reached historical high points. >> the two men didn't seem to have a good relationship with each other. benjamin netanyahu did not like that barack obama was making overtures to iran. >> to be fair to president
obama, mr. netanyahu had aired his differences in vitriolic way way before the iran deal was even negotiated. i think that president obama and to attest to that, you had the prime minister and the foreign president and prime minister who said israel never had a better friend, substantively speaking than barack obama. but israelis have a sense of wanting to be loved. and they felt they weren't loved enough by barack obama. >> a fair statement. >> a measure of racism in there. but we don't have time dissect that. but with donald trump, within 120 days of his tenure as president, it shifted violently like a pend lum. i think they're both wrong but nonetheless, he is revaluated,
he is being reevaluated as the greatest friend we ever had. i'm not sure he is. >> good to talk to you. the former israeli consul general. thank you to all of you. while he continues his foreign trim as president, trump's first budget plan will be sent to congress. an expansion of that skinny budget. ♪ fun in art class. come close, come close. i like that. [ music stops suddenly ] ah. when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. awww. try this. for minor arthritis pain, only aleve can stop pain for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. thank you. ♪ come on everybody. you can't quit, neither should your pain reliever. stay all day strong with 12 hour aleve.
vice president mike pence expected to arrive on capitol hill in the next hour to meet with about a half dozen republican lawmakers about the budget and other issues. the president's first budget proposal will be released tomorrow. axios and the "washington post" report the budget will be slashed by $1.7 trillion in ten years. about $800 billion will come out of medicaid. we have a clue on that from the health care bill that has been passed by the house, not the senate. and cuts programs to food stamps, that's snap, children's health insurance programs and disability insurance. there are guns budgets and butter budgets. this is a guns budget. the house is billing it as a taxpayer first budget. with these deep cuts, it may work in congress. not likely to work as well in the senate. >> the talking points of getting republicans aspears to nothing
less than replacing dependency with the dignity of work. an interesting phrase that has theological overtones historically. it also calls for able bodied americans. it cuts medicaid, the health care program for the poorest americans to the tune of some $800 billion. and much of that was incorporated because it passed the house and still being worked in the senate. the republican health care bill that has proven so controversial. so a lot of this is still being processed. they are political documents. they don't have any basis in reality that ends up being passed. remember, congress doesn't usually get around to passing the resolution. because congress is so divided. all the suggestions from the democrats. there are many republicans, particularly in the senate, who
don't want to see medicaid slashed. so this is a political document, a notional document. it is far from being completed. >> and it is worth commenting. budgets in the last five or six years have been almost impossible to get from point a to z. most of the time they don't get there and they don't look like the first one. >> right. and the they know you have to remember, the budget is a political document. it provides a framework that is a sign post from where the administration wants to go. it is up to congress to fill in the blanks. usual little because the votes are so volatile and they don't want to leave them vulnerable to those kinds of votes. they don't get into passing the budget. the appropriations committees seem to want to do their work which they can't do either. and we get the bills cram wood
is, crammed into tend of the session. >> joining me, congressman meeks, thank you for being with us. on capitol hill the focus has been largely on the president's russia issues. but at town halls, health care is still the bigger concern. listen with me. >> i'm here because his health care is expensive. and we need on stand up for health care that matters. medicaid matters. >> so again, what would happen if medicaid were cut for your family? >> we would be completely bankrupt. we would lose everything. would it just be devastating to our family. >> congressman, $800 billion to medicaid over ten years. how is this going over with your constituents? >> not going well with my constituents at well. nor should it be going well with trump constituents.
clearly it is just the opposite. this would be devastating to people from the north, the south, the east, and the west. the coastal cities, anybody who is middle class or poor. it is a statement but it shows a statement of where donald trump really stands. it doesn't stand with middle class and poor individuals. >> this is interesting. it is a conservative talking point here. the idea of putting in work requirements for certain parts of medicaid, for able bodied resr recipien recipients. it is a personal matter, a principle matter, not just economic. >> you see the principle, the reverse robben hood. when you look at the tax breaks he is giving, it is all to his cronies, to the top 1%. everything you're looking at is at the expense of those who need it most. yes. you're right. it is the principle of taking
away from the poor to give to the rich. >> congressman, the "chicago tribune" is reporting that snap, the nutrition program, many people know it as food stamps. the swelled following the financial crisis as the obama administration eased policies to make it easier for people to qualify for benefits. we hit a high in 2013. but we were at about, we were in the mid $20 million number of people getting snap before the recession. we're now in the $40 million. should there be reform to something that was an emergency we're not in emergency times? >> we're still recovering. we've done, and come a long way tunneled eight years of barack obama from a completely devastated, the worst, of course, will sense the great depression. there's a lot to do. if you look at the income disparity in our country, it is
still greater than ever and it is still growing. so annul of individuals, although they are working again, they are working two and three jobs so there's a lot of work to be done to make up on the income side. so you have to watch numbers on both sides of the ledger so we can make sure that we're moving our country together. economically we're still recovering. and what the president is proposing now, i think, will bring that recovery to a halt. >> i want to switch over to the flynn investigation several developments today. michael flynn is expected to notify the intelligence panel. he won't hand over documents. he is envoeking his fit amendment right. we remind everybody, invoking the fifth is not an admission of guilt. >> my reaction is, isn't that
iron snik you're right in your statement but in the case of mr. flynn who has stated in his mind, anybody that executed or offered the fifth amendment must be guilty of something. that's his words. not anyone else's. he didn't go by the letter of the law then. so it must mean there's something he is guilty about because now he is evoking the fifth amendment right. based upon what he utilize ad few months ago during the campaign. so it is ironic that it is mr. flynn now invoking the fifth had amendment as we get deep entire the russia investigation. >> i want to ask you about james comey. he is expected to speak with jason chaffetz today on the phone about comey likely or possibly testifying the week before, after memorial day. chaffetz' question, the memos
even exist. let's listen. okay. we don't have that. what is your sense about jason chaffetz wondering about james comey's truthfulness? >> well, listen, to me, just make sense. it doesn't add up. i agree with the ranking member, elijah cummings. it is important for anyone in the committees, hopefully an independent commission that will look at this to get any and all dpomts m documents that he has kept. er the best way to find out whether he has them or not is to get him to subpoena them and have him produce them and have them that a public forum very soon so we can get to the bottom
of the truth and the facts of what has taken place during this investigation. >> good to talk to you. thank you. for the first time in american history, a sitting president visits the wailing wall. we'll dig deep into his visit and the importance of the western wall. liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™.
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i was deeply moved by my visit today to the western wall. words failed to capture the experience. it will leave an impression on me forever. >> history made in jerusalem today when president trump became the first sitting president to visit the western wall. you can see the president place his hands on the wall and then he laid a prayer note inside. there you go. you see that. first lady melania trump as well
as ivanka trump visiting on the women's side. the significance is untold. one of the goal is to achieve peace in the middle east, the goal of many presidents, and many view this as a first step. why is the western wall so important? let me show you where it is. first of all, where president trump was was right here. it is the exposed part of the western wall. this is all built up. this is the western wall of the old temple mount. the most religiously significant spot in jewsudaism. however, this is the dome of the rock, the most important place in the muslim religion. the muslim faith occupies the top of the temple mount. it is now end closed in rock. and the western wall is the only exposed rock. so it is really important. jews who go there, it is the closest they feel to the old
temples. worth noting, before the president got to the western wall, the church of the holy sepulchre, the place where jesus was supposedly crucified. let me show you by the way, this is, we make a big point out of fact donald trump was the first sitting president to go to the wall. you can see barack obama was there in july just before he became president. president george w. bush went there when he was not president. president cleanse, same thing, was not president, hillary clinton visit there'd and president h.w. bush visited but nonof them did so when they were president. obviously hillary clinton wasn't president. so that's why the relevant advance of all of this. we'll tell you why the president, the art of the deal, wants to be the one to bring an
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we have before us a rare opportunity to bring security and stability and peace to this region, and to its people. >> how close are we to achieving peace in the middle east? at least between vale and the palestinians? president trump thinks he can achieve what many think is the unachievable. what is the president's plan? let me start with the significance of all of this. let me start with my guests, both these gentlemen have titles that are really long and have done a lot of things. but they know this topic well. let me start with the first problem on the ground. i want to start with israel and the west bank. you can see below israel is egypt. to the right, to the east is jordan. the west bank, syria to the northeast and lebanon on top. look at the west bank.
allen, that's a map indicating israeli settlement ts within the west bank. it is what you call a fact on the ground. there are israelis in the west bank, lots of them. so this isn't a matter of, here's a country, you have your side, we have our side, let's make a deal. how does that get worked out? >> well, 2000, 2001, israel offered to return the entire gaza and 97% of the west bank and the palestinians rejected it. in 2008 the israelis again made an extremely generous offer. and the palestinians rejected it. before that, sharon abandon the gaza completely and what did they get in return? rockets and terrorist attacks. so the question isn't whether settlements are a barrier to peace. the settlements will be dealt with in a peace proposal. the question is whether the palestinian leadership and
people are prepared to recognize israel is the nation state of thor israel people. >> that is, what role can the palestinian authorities play in this? there are a lot of palestinians who say the palestinian authority is the security arm of the israeli government in the wempbs? can they even make a deal? >> well, it is a very good question. i think we're probably further away from a deal than we've ever been. not because of the leadership. they second the reality of israel, second it back in 1988. they've double it throughout the 1990s. they've sat in various peace conferences. and the real problem is that you have an israeli government which is filled with rejectionists from top to bottom. people who don't believe in a two-state solution. in the past year i've interviewed the israeli consul general in new york, others,
they said they refuse to believe in the state. so you have an occupying power which controls the west bank, which basically says we don't believe in the two-state solution that the rest of the international community believes in. that donald trump claims to want. so you can't get a solution if one party doesn't recognize the idea of having the other party as a state. >> but israel a democracy. israel isn't like saudi arabia. if the king doesn't want something, it doesn't happen. or like jordan. the israeli people want a two-state solution. i think many stinls do. >> you heard it as he did. in the last election, in the waning days of the election with netanyahu looked like he was in trouble, he said he didn't want the two-state solution and he warned the arabs would have an uprising and multiply in a way -- >> and he appointed in a bunch of ministers who don't believe in it.
>> and you might ask the question, why did donald trump when he was running, say he would remove the embassy. you don't take seriously what they say on the eve of elections. you take seriously when they're the prime minister, the president. the prime minister said no pre conditions. let's sit down. we'll negotiate it. in ramallah, we'll negotiate it. in jerusalem. but not at the united nations. i think we're closer than we've been before. the sunni-shia dispute. the fear of the arc, iran, apartments of iraq, parts of syria, to hezbollah, is terrifying to many of the most stable arab regimes. and i think they see israel, a country that would never harm them. a country that would never attack them. but they see iran as a country that endangers them. so i think they want to create alliances between stable regimes to offset iran and i think they see president trump as somebody who will try to do this.
he is the same kind of an tag 9/11. so this is a good time to sit down and make a deal. >> well, let me agree with alan dershowi dershowitz. what matters are actions. you have an israeli government that since december when the united nations pass ad resolution, 14 votes to 0 asking israelis to hold back from settlements, saying they are the number one problem to achieving the two state solution, cynic then they've announced five and a half more housing units, they've announced building the new settlement. they retroactively legalized 4,000 settlement that's were on palestinian land. so this is an israeli government which is composed of minute sisters who say they don't believe in it and which takes action on the ground that makes it impossible. >> let's remember when the u.n. passed this obnoxious resolution, 14-0 and dead wrong.
how many years did it takes before christians stopped accusing jews of using the blood of christians. so just because it is 14-0 doesn't make it right. an obnoxious resolution. it said the western wall was occupied territory. israel hasn't built one single new settlement. and finally when they had to issue of the settlement, they built one and they had a complete settlement freeze for nine months and the palestinians didn't come to the table. >> up by 40%. 40%. >> face facts. the built up -- >> 400,000. >> make a deal and you'll see what happens. >> how do you make a deal? >> all the settlers left gaza as soon as the deal was made. >> there no deal.
there was no deal. it was a unilateral withdrawal. so you agree. >> because the palestinians wouldn't make a deal. >> when there is a negotiation to be had, i hope and i know that the two of you will be consulted because you're both very well armed with stuff that has made our viewers. thanks for the time that you've taken to join us. this is a big issue. we won't sort it out in five minutes with you it is useful to hear from them. >> coming up, michael flynn will plead the fifth and not hand over documents to the senate. we'll have details of that right after this quick break. gn to pl. ...positive role in what was going on in the world. there's a jacket that's reflective for visibility... ...a sleeping bag jacket, jackets that turn into tents.
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julie calls it her "new" normal. because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance, the number-one-prescribed, fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. nbc news has learned two members have decided to cooperate. they have turned over documents to the committee, this is on top of the fact former national security adviser michael flynn is planning to invokes his fifth
amendment right in response to a subpoena from the senate intelligence committee. we should note his response is expected to say that he is invoking his constitutional jus michael flynn's lawyer, which i've handed over to alan dershowitz, my counsel for this segment, to take a look at. in which i think he has invoked his fifth -- they have said on his behalf, this is done. this is now a done deal. let me read this last -- it's not the last paragraph, it's many pages of a letter but says -- our client's position remains unchanged. producing documents that fall within the subpoena's broad scope would be a testimonial act insofar as it would confirm or deny the existence of such documents. >> he's absolutely right and flynn has a terrific lawyer. but the law is this. that if you give him what's call ued production immunity, that is, the court can never, or the government can never use the
fact that he produced in evidence, but they could use the actual document of evidence. >> right. >> in other words, you have no fifth amendment right to the content of a document because you've already written it, but you do have a fifth amendment right if they say produce the -- you don't have to produce it. so if they give you production immunity, you then have to produce it. >> michael german is with us now, a former fbi special agent and professor at the nyu school of law. tell me how this all refers -- relates to the fact that there is an investigation going on, clearly the fbi has one, james comey said this and the fact that he's gone doesn't stop that investigation. now we have a special counsel, former head of the fbi, who's going to pick up on that work and i don't know whether -- are they going to work in parallel, be two different investigations going on or is bob mueller going to use the information that comey's fbi has gathered so far? >> normally, what happens is the same fbi agents who have been working on this for the last year will continue working on it under the authority of robert mueller, special counsel.
in this case, there might be a lot of spinoff cases or unrelated or narrowly related cases that are going to be continued to work through the fbi's normal u.s. attorney rep. >> talk to me -- it's hard to sort of separate this, the nonlegal folks here, when we're talking about the fact that roger stone and paul manafort turned over documents to this committee, not subpoenaing the people, themselves, they're i a subpoenaing the documents. is the senate committee likely to get farther down this road than the fbi or bob mueller? >> they're going to have a tremendous clash because the congressional committees want information. they want it out in the public. the way to get information, have it out in the public, is to give the witnesses immunity if they plead the fifth. mueller doesn't want them to get immunity. that's what happened with oliver north and they lost their case with oliver north. we're going to have real conflicts between what the congressional investigating committees want in public, and what bob mueller wants in
secret. >> so that's a problem. and i don't know how many times in the fbi they experienced this, where there's a case that the fbi is prosecuting or investigating and on the side, there's a political sideshow that has some real head of steam. >> so i worked during the savings and loan failure. >> good example. all right. >> where that was a big part of the issue. it's a negotiation. it takes that members of congress working with the special counsel, the fbi, to ensure that they're on parallel paths and to be clear here, i think a lot of what we have to keep in mind is putting people in jail is not necessarily the best outcome here. you know, this is a real political issue that needs to get resolved as quickly as it can. >> and i think that's right, and the special counsel only has jurisdiction over criminal matters, and a lot of the most serious accusations -- >> are not actually necessarily criminal. >> are not criminal. for example, what he said to the russians. he can declassify.
firing comey. he's in harncharge of the fbi, unitary executive, he could literally tell the fbi who to investigate, who not. we don't do that anymore. that's a matter of an internal justice department rule, not a reconstruction of a criminal statute. you can't create crime out of conduct that you disagree with. the criminalization of political differences is something that is very dangerous in democracy. >> so do you believe that in keeping these investigations separate, the house intel committee and the house judiciary committee, sorry, the senate intel committee and the senate judiciary committee can achieve investigation into the political side of things whether they think the government's running properly, versus this special counsel which can look into the criminality of it? >> as you said, it's going to take sophisticated negotiation and sometimes it breaks down. it break down in the oliver north case, broke down in some o of the other cases. sometimes it works well and yet there's a third possibility, still people pushing for a congressionally authorized independent commission like the
9/11 commission, would have is complete power, distinguished from bipartisan which is happen has in congress and the house. so this is still a work in progress. >> kasie hunt's on capitol hill for us. kasie, i don't know if you had a chance to look at this letter from michael flynn's attorneys, written to richard burr and mark warner, the heads of the senate intelligence committee. what do you make of it? >> reporter: yeah. well, you talked -- touched on this a little bit earlier, ali, but i think the key part of it is here where his attorney writes that producing documents that fall within the subpoena's broad scope, they say, would be a testimonial architect insofar as it would confirm or deny the existence of these documents. now, remember what the committee asked for was not for testimony from flynn, himself. but rather for information related to meetings and communications he may have had with russian officials and any communications we had with the trump campaign on this topic. so, it's an interesting way of framing this. essentially saying, look, if we
gave you information about these thi things, that could potentially incriminate our client, in this case the former national security adviser, michael flynn. of course, it does say what we m had expected based on sources close to flynn that they are going to invoke the fifth amendment here and not provide this information. they also emphasize that the supreme court has said that this, the fifth amendment is designed to protect innocent people and that this, of course, does not imply guilt. >> yeah. we should always underscore that. mike german, i mean, it's a fact. we have come to think, probably from a lot of tv and movies, that when you plead the fifth, you're hiding something. but in fact, the constitution protection of the fifth amendment is not for guilty people, it's just -- i guess it can be used for guilty people. >> it just means you have a good lawyer and that person is giving you good advice. >> but in our partisan world that we live in, when a democrat pleads the fifth, republicans say that's proof of guilt.
when the democrat pleads the fifth, you know, that's the way it works in america. nobody cares abl s about civil liberties. nobody cares about principle. everybody is a partisan. when i speak u on behalf of fusion constitutional rights people are saying you're taking clinton's side, taking trump's side. let the chips fall where they may. i'm going to defend constitutional rights and civil liberties. >> alan dershowitz. michael german, great to see you. kasie hunt, nice to see you. i haven't talked to kasie hunt on tv for a long time. >> reporter: it's been a while. let's have a live look at the numbers on wall street right now. the dow is trading. 96 points higher. that's the way it's been for the last few days. the day began with the news of a shakeup at the ford motor company. automaker announcing it was replacing its ceo mark fields who had been at the company for 28 years. he'd only been the boss for three years but during that time, the stock of the company fell about 40%. the company says fields is retiring after tl year 28 yearse
company, being replace plad witm hackett. earlier, i had a chance to speak with bill ford, he's the great-grandson of henry ford, chairman of the board, about what happened and what it means for ford's future. >> on friday the board met and then after that, i went to see mark and we had a long talk and he elected to retire and so we're going forward with jim hackett as our new ceo which i'm very, very happy with. and he will provide us really transformational leadership at a time of great change for our industry. >> and i guess the issue here is taking your great-grandfather's ford, which is known around the world as a manufacturing company and an auto company and sort of making it into a technology company? >> well, we have to do all -- we have to do -- it's not either/or. we have to do that. we will always make great cars and trucks, but how they are
used and who they're used by and how they're accessed by customers will change over time. >> what do you want to be known for if we were having this conversation in five years, you got to catch up on the electrified car side. is it really about self-driving or autonomous cars? >> well, it's all that. what i'd like the company to be seen as is a company that successfully made a transition into the -- into a very different era and it's not just around our vehicles. it's how we think about our customer. it's how we make our vehicles. i mean, if you think of artificial intelligence and 3-d printing and deep learning and data, that's all going to inform us to make us a better company. >> gerald ford jr., a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> that does it for me this afternoon. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern time and again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. always find me on twitter,
facebook and instagram @alivelshi. snapchat tth@velshi. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts now. with no room for error, all president trump had to do was stick to the script. instead he seemed to out israel as a source of sensitive information, information he shared with russia weeks ago. >> thank you, guys. thank you. >> hey, hey, hey. >> keep up. >> just so you understand. i never mentioned the word or the name israel. never mentioned it during that conversation. they were all saying i did. so you had the story long. never mentioned the
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