tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC May 24, 2017 6:00am-7:01am PDT
who are socially and economically ostracized and disadvantaged. >> all right. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being here. the book is "warnings, finding cassandras to stop catastrophes. richard clarke, we appreciate it. hope you'll come back. >> any time. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now, stephanie. >> hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, holy meeting. president trump has his first face-to-face with pope francis. talking health care and immigration, trump now wheels up for a nato meeting in brussels where the stakes will be even higher. and we're back to the russia connection. president trump lawyers up. the senate issues two new subpoenas to mike flynn, and the former cia director gives the most damning account yet of russia interference. >> i encountered and am aware of contacts and interactions
between russian officials and the trump campaign. plus, highest alert. new arrests this morning as we learn the suspected manchester bomber was known to officials and had ties to al qaeda. >> an attack remains highly likely, but a further attack may be imminent. >> we begin this morning with president trump headed to brussels after spending much of the morning in vatican city. he met with pope francis who urged peace and help for immigrants. the president promising to remember the pope's words. we have the best team in the business here to break it all down and i want to take you first to my friends, hans nichols who has traveled to brussels ahead of the president. hans, walk us through the dynamic here. there's a big difference between the trip so far and what awaits president trump in belgium. tell us about that, nato, he's been hot, he's been cold. now he's in front of them all.
>> reporter: what nato leaders want to hear, stephanie, i've spoken to a nato official, is a reiteration of what secretary mattis and secretary tillerson and mike pence has said, that donald trump does not think nato is obsolete. but there's really a spectrum here in europe. speaking to this official talking about how in the eastern part of nato, those 28 countries closer to russia, they want to hear it more forcefully from trump. when you get further west, some of them are content with what we've heard from pence, what we've heard from mattis and that is that this administration is committed to nato. underlying all this is a question about defense spending. we heard it earlier in february, this call for all nato countries to spend more than 2% of their gdp on defense. backdrop is also afghanistan. will the trump administration being asking for additional troops from nato partners in afghanistan. it should be noted that the war in afghanistan, stephanie, is the only time article 5 has been triggered. that's the common defense article. and then one other conversation
that's going to be taking place here is should the attacks by isis if they are traced back to the caliphate and raqqah, should that trigger article 5. should there be more nato involvement in syria, in iraq to stamp out isis. so all these are the backdrop. we have a leader summit tomorrow night. a lot of these guys may take an opportunity, some of them, to be critical of donald trump. it's really their first chance to see him in person. stephanie. >> thanks, hans. i want to bring in my panel. ned ryan is ceo of american majority and a former speechwriter for george w. bush. z et zerlina max well and richard stengel, undersecretary of state for public affairs under president obama and currently is an msnbc analyst. rick, i'm going to go to you first. let's walk through, the president just sat down with the pope. the pope brought up health care, he brought up immigration,
education. these are issues that the president could radically change. was the pope sort of putting out a plea for status quo? >> i think the pope was being ministerial and trying to minister to donald trump. the pope is the polar opposite of donald trump on all of these issues. he is for rectifying the imbalance between rich and poor, for giving more money for helping the poor and disadvantaged. donald trump's budget targets all the people that the pope defends. so in a sense the pope is representing the poor and donald trump is representing the rich and that's how the pope looks at it. >> no, i would disagree with that. i think it is -- it is quite the image of seeing this unabashed american capitalist sitting with an argentinian collectivist. you look at where donald trump is coming from and his world view, you look at where the pope is coming from and their world view, you know, it's just a fascinating picture to see that. >> then given -- >> i would disagree -- >> given that i two world views, how do you so disagree with
rick? >> i disagree, for example, on the budget. this is going to be an interesting topic later in the show, but everybody is losing their minds over the fact, for example, medicaid. we spent $2.7 trillion on medicaid in the last ten years. the budget is calling for $4.7 trillion to be spent in the next ten years. so there's interesting debates taking place. >> he's cutting medicaid budget. medicaid needed to be expanded under obamacare to bring in all those people that didn't have health care. >> all right. we're going to cover this later. i want to stay on the trip that they're on. zerlina, the president going to brussels next. >> yes. >> how important is this, given -- if you say to me people are losing their minds over this nato, he's been aggressively against nato over and over throughout the campaign. >> i think that what we're finding is that as president donald trump sometimes has to adjust his position on issues that he was staunchly against, nato, for example, during the campaign. and usually nato events are choreographed and all of the staff has adequately prepared the world leaders to be involved
in a complex meeting. i'm really worried about how this is going to go because donald trump doesn't do well with a lot of preparation. he flies off the cuff a lot of times. in these highly choreographed diplomatic settings, that can be very dangerous. i do think with the attack in manchester this week, these issues are so, so dangerous and serious. i think that we need somebody who's going to go in there and at least follow the directives of his staff and experts. >> i disagree. i think he was very well scripted in saudi arabia, i thought it came off extremely well. >> to who? to muslims. >> to a lot of people. the thing i think he's going to nato and say listen, only 5 of the 28 of you are meeting your 2% of gdp for national defense. time to step up to the plate. >> well, he didn't understand -- he was like the rent man. he thought people weren't paying enough into nato. what it is is 2% of gdp. nato people didn't understand that. this thing that the correspondent mentioned about article 5 triggering it, that is
the most dangerous thing and we'll see how that plays out in the meeting. >> i want to go to the latest from the white house regarding the search for jim comey's replacement as the new head of the fbi. peter alexander is there with some brand new reporting. peter, what have you learned? >> reporter: hey, stephanie, a report this morning suggesting that joe lieberman, the former senator, is no longer being considered for fbi director. the white house push back on that. agreeing that they are broadening their search but saying that joe lieberman remains a part of that process right now as they try to determine who will replace james comey at the fbi. this comes as we learn that the president himself is lawyering up. he is now expected to retain a man by the name of marc kasowitz, his long-time manhattan attorney, as a private counsel that would help be involved in his needs as it relates to all things russia, the investigation now being overseen by that special prosecutor and the congressional investigations as well. as it relates to lieberman, worth noting that lieberman for the past four years as worked at marc kasowitz' law firm in new
york city. stephanie. >> the other big news over the last 24 hours was testimony from former cia director john brennan about russia. what can you tell us about that, peter? >> reporter: so the bottom line, this is what john brennan, who was then cia director, basically the reason why he raised red flags during the course of the campaign season, as he was trying to zero in on those russian propagandaists, those hackers that he believed were brazenly trying to interfere in the election. he said that he saw what he describes as contacts and interactions between russian operatives and trump campaign aides. he couldn't specify, at least not in a public setting, who those individuals were and he would not say that what he saw amounted to collusion. of course he left the cia in january. but here's how he described it in part during that hearing on capitol hill. >> i know what the russians try to do. they try to suborn individuals and try to get individuals, including u.s. person, to act on
their behalf either witting llyr unwittingly. >> reporter: so he would go on to describe how russian operatives recruit and ultimately try to manipulate other individuals from countries like the united states, oftentimes in a way that those individuals don't even recognize that they are being compromised like this until it's a little bit too late. the white house pushing back, suggesting that brennan's testimony demonstrates what they have been saying all along, that there is and has never been any evidence of collusion between trump and russia. back to you. >> all right. i want my panel to weigh in here, ned, ryan, zerlina. i want to share some of the change between trey gowdy and director brennan. >> did evidence consist between collusion between the trump campaign and russian state actors at the time you learned of 2016 efforts? >> i don't know whether or not such collusion, and that's your
term, such collusion existed. i don't know. >> i know that they needed to turn up the air conditioning in that room. rick, what is your thoughts here? a lot of smoke. >> absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. >> one more time? >> they teach you that in law school. the fact that they don't yet have evidence of collusion doesn't mean that it didn't happen. this is an investigation, they're in the middle of it. all the republicans, mr. gowdy is trying to pin him down and say is there evidence of collusion. well, we'll see. we don't know. but one of the things that brennan did, and i worked with him at the white house, is he was very careful about parsing his words to say this is a continuing investigation. we will see. and they will look into the obstruction of evidence that may have happened to protect against a crime which did not necessarily even happen. >> last time you were here, ned, you said this was a fairy tale. >> it is a fairy tale. there was no evidence, there is no evidence, there will never be evidence. >> you don't know that. hold on -- no, no. >> here's the thing that i'm saying. >> excuse me. you're not going to be able to
sit here and say there will never be evidence because you don't know that. >> it didn't exist, there is no evidence. >> we don't know that. >> here's what i'm saying, though. between the cia -- between all the intelligence committees, fbi, house intelligence, senate intelligence, there has been no evidence. and the thing that was annoying to me yesterday, i think trey gowdy did an excellent job. i think republicans have a real weakness in their ability to drive a narrative and that was my frustration yesterday. i would love to have seen trey gowdy and others ask brennan why were you not concerned about, for example, secretary of state clinton approving the sale of 20% of our uranium resources to putin, whose goal is to control the uranium global supply chain. >> if the republicans are doing a poor job with their narrative -- >> right. >> -- couldn't one say pleading the fifth makes it really hard to tell your story? >> you're not going to see me defending flynn. he was a bad hire, he should never have been hired. i do not want to see them
wasting -- >> do you know who hired him? the president. >> exactly. i disagree with that hire. i never agreed with it to begin with. >> did they ask you to agree with it? >> no, they have asked me on tv and i will not defend it and i don't think trump should waste any more political capital defending mike flynn. he should move on. >> then why do you think he does? >> i don't know. i have no idea. he needs to move on. >> i think that that's why we should -- >> but you know there's going to be no evidence -- >> i guarantee you there's not going to be evidence because it's a fairy tale. the thing i will say about mike flynn, i know this frustrates me. >> it doesn't frustrate me. to be honest, i find it irresponsible. to simple low be able to say mike flynn was just a bad hire. the president continues to never say anything bad against vladimir putin. how can those two facts exist. >> oh, my gosh, hillary clinton -- >> and hold on, hillary clinton did not win the election. donald trump did. >> of course, thank god she didn't. >> we're going to put that over
here. donald trump won. how can you possibly say, mike flynn was just a bad hire. trump's never said anything about putin. bad about putin, but i know there's no evidence. how do you add those up? >> hillary clinton's whole -- >> i'm not talking about hillary clinton. >> what i'm saying is flynn was a bad hire, no need to waste political capital defending him. hillary clinton and her relationship with putin -- >> we're going to move on. >> hillary clinton had nothing to do with -- she is at her office in midtown working on onward together. why are we talking about hillary clinton? let's focus on the issue that happened yesterday. >> you want to talk about collusion with russia, look at the clintons. $145 million -- $145 million -- >> let's stay on topic. >> any time a defender of donald trump mentions hillary clinton, he has lost the argument already because that isn't the argument. i mean my god -- >> what i'm saying is the evidence of any collusion in
2016 and before between russia and any entity, w actually have proof that there were deals struck, money flowing into the clinton foundation. the uranium deal and now we're spinning up all these tales that i don't think there is any proof for and there will never be proof for. >> i hope you bet all the money in your bank account that that's true. >> i probably will. >> okay. >> wow. authorities in manchester will hold a news conference any minute now with the latest on that investigation. we're keeping an eye on it and let you know what they say. first, much more on that ongoing russia investigation, including new subpoenas on the way mike flynn behaved. and the question is, is he going to comply this time? before we go, a light moment from the president's trip to the vatican came when the holy father questioned the first lady about the president's eating habits. >> what do you get him to eat? >> pizza.
an just unlimited data. we want unlimited entertainment. so we can stream unlimited action. watch unlimited robots. watch unlimited romance. if you are into that. but we also want more like... unlimited hbo. can i stop dying now mark? no can't do mi amigo. it's unlimited. besides you are really good at it james. don't settle for any unlimited data plan. only the at&t unlimited plus plan comes with hbo included at no extra charge. ito become dangerous.d for an everyday item new tide pods child guard pack. helps keep your laundry pacs safe and your child safer. align, press and unzip.
will you be ready when the moment turns romantic? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis.
while we disagree with general flynn's lawyer's interpretation of taking the fifth, it is even more clear that a business does not have a right to take the fifth if it's a corporation. >> that's senator mark warner, vice chair of the senate intelligence committee announcing plans to subpoena two of mike flynn's companies to get documents that the former national security advisor has
declined to provide for the committee's russia probe. joining me now, former fbi special agent clint watts. i wish that was my title. and former prosecutor and civil litigator, john kelly. john, before we talk about mike flynn, i want to talk about president trump retaining attorney marc kasowitz who he's known 10, 15 years. the fact that he's retained outside counsel, does that tell you anything? >> no. it's a smart move. you want someone that's kept the pulse leading up to events, rather than to search to find someone iffy needs counsel down the road, get him now, get him onboard listening and monitoring things. it's no indication of any guilt or fear of anything. i think this is getting mixed up with the references to a war room being set up in the white house. i think it's not so much a war room but rapid response. the white house wants to be organized and be able to respond to these russian collusion allegations and have one uniform voice and sort of get rid of all
the extraneous noise going on there. >> there's a lot of law firms out there. does it say anything to you that it's the same law firm that joe lieberman was a part of and the fact that joe lieberman, a potential candidate to head up the fbi, does that seem strange to you? >> yeah. in general i think it's a bad idea to have politicians become the fbi director. we don't want anybody that's ever taken money for votes to ultimately become the leader of what's supposed to be a very independent investigative body. it's better to have someone usually that's a former prosecutor, former fbi agent or investigator of some sort lead that kind of an organization. i think you're always going to run into those conflicts any time you're bringing someone over from a political position. >> from a legal perspective, the senate intelligence committee subpoenaing two of mike flynn's companies, because they want to get documents that mike flynn himself wouldn't provide. can they get them in spite of the fact that he's pleading the fifth? >> oh, absolutely. the fifth amendment affords no protection to business documents or records, especially those
that were generated before the subpoena was issued. the fifth amendment protects individuals from being compelled to testify going forward. so, for example, even if flynn had confessed to crimes to someone else in the past or signed statements or something, those are still admissible, those are still subpoena-able but business records will be produced and the committees will get them. >> why would he plead the fifth? >> i think it's ultimately going to come down to his lobbying. it may not be so much about the russian connection but with turkey and the fact that he took significant lobbying fees from it. this is also, i think, a classic challenge for those coming out of the military. you've got to remember general flynn was in for 30 years or so, then moving into the business sector and not really understanding the connections between those. he definitely should have understood that you don't take money from a foreign government, but i don't think he understands all the documentation and how that differs from his past career. >> would you agree? >> yeah. i think what's ultimately going to play out, stephanie, is flynn
is going to be subpoenaed by congressional committees. he's going to indicate he's taking the fifth, which he's done. these committees are going to carve out immunity deals for him and call him in. he's going to appear there, still take the fifth amendment, and then mueller and justice will have to make a decision, like north and iran contra back in '86 whether to prosecute him for obstruction of justice. so i mean it's a few moves away, but i think it's what's going to happen ultimately. it might not be for six months or so, but i think you have a showdown coming down with flynn and doj. >> if it's a few moves away, how long is this thing going to take? >> i think it will be a year. ultimately before a lot of this even comes out. a special counsel, you know, going through this procedure now with former director mueller is going to take quite some time. he's going to build up, he's going to staff. they're going to do evidence generation. most counter intelligence investigations are in multiple
years in a traditional fbi sense. this doesn't happen quickly. so the public is going to get frustrated because it's going to move very slow and a lot of it is behind closed doors. >> if you were advising mike flynn right now, what would you tell him to do? >> stay quiet. >> you think pleading the fifth was the right move? >> oh, absolutely. he's going to be boxed in even when he's called before the committee and offered an immunity deal. you've still got to claim the fifth. they can claim there's independent evidence they can prosecute him on so it's a no-win situation. >> but if he didn't do anything. >> right. >> why not just tell your story? >> well, it appears even on the face of it there was some deceit at least in filling out financial disclosure forms, so if nothing else, there's a whiff of it there, so he's better off just taking the fifth and being quiet. >> do you agree? >> the irony in all of this is every statement that the trump campaign made last year, they are now guilty of.
incompetence. this is a classic sign of an incompetent new administration trying to maybe hide a scandal that wasn't even a scandal ultimately. you also heard him say lock her up. if you ploed tyou plead the fif obviously guilty. they have put their foot in their mouth inside of a year on every single thing they have said. >> that's a whole thing and you said those things on tape. all right, thank you, gentlemen. thank you so much. i appreciate your time this morning. up next, the investigation into the disastrous tragic manchester bombing. any minute now authorities will give a live update after saying the bomber may not have worked alone. and you are looking at live pictures where police are executing a raid at this moment. new details straight ahead. plus, the director of the office of management and budget, mick mulvaney, will testify before the house budget committee. president trump's proposed budget receiving harsh reviews, especially from the late-night hosts. >> this budget cuts things like the food stamp program, snap,
♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ before fibromyalgia, i was a doer. i was active. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. she also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. woman: for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior.
or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica. rumor confirmed. they're playing. -what? -we gotta go. -where? -san francisco. -when? -friday. we gotta go. [ tires screech ] any airline. any hotel. any time. go where you want, when you want with no blackout dates. [ muffled music coming from club. "blue monday" by new order. cheers. ] [ music and cheers get louder ] the travel rewards credit card from bank of america. it's travel, better connected. some build walls to keep people out. but these are walls that welcome you in.
within these walls, california's educators create safe places for every student to learn and grow. where teachers open minds to history... unleash creativity... and show our kids the future. some build walls to divide us. but the california teachers association knows these are walls that bring us together. because quality public schools build a better california for all of us.
welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. you're watching msnbc. it is time now for your morning primer, everything you need to know to get your day started. just hours ago, president trump met with pope francis at the vatican where they exchanged gifts and privately discussed health care, education and assistance to immigrants. the president now heads to brussels for his first official nato meeting. the congressional budget office will release its highly anticipated analysis of the american health care act this afternoon. three weeks after house republicans rushed to pass the repeal bill through the senate. donald trump reportedly praised philippine president duterte for doing a, quote, unbelievable job on the drug problem. during a phone call last month, transcripts of the call were released by the philippine government and obtained by "the washington post." this one is for my sons. the nfl is loosening rules on touchdown celebrations. players will now be allowed to
use the football as a prop, fall to the ground and make snow angels. the league still prohibits twerking and other offensive gestures. but everybody loves a touchdown dance. and i was up late watching this, the cleveland cavaliers are one win away from advancing to the nba finals after overcoming a double-digit deficit last night to beat the boston celtics and to take a 3-1 lead in the eastern conference finals. and breaking news right now, police are outside a building in manchester, uk, where a raid is under way in connection with monday's bombing attack at the ariana grande concert. officials are about to hold a news conference and police say they have identified all of the 22 victims. the youngest 8 years old. prime minister theresa may has raised the terror threat level from severe to critical. its highest rating, saying another attack may be imminent. and a new photo has surfaced of the suspected suicide bomber. nbc's keir simmons is in
manchester and joins me now. keir, tell me about these new raids that are under way this morning. >> reporter: well, the latest raids, what you can see behind me here is the suspect's house where his brother was arrested. now this morning the police here gaining entry, forced entry to another property in central manchester. of course the crucial clues they're looking for are links to others. already four are under arrest. they want to know how far this network spreads, because the question is whether there is somebody out there who is capable of carrying out another attack, stephanie. that's what they don't know. we are beginning to get a picture of the kind of international links, if you like, reporting that the suspect headed to syria at one point. also links to libya, his parents were of libyan descent, so some real questions to be answered, and the race against time, stephanie. >> do we know yet if the attack from the other night was the
suspected bomber acting alone or these people who you're looking at -- who they are looking at now, could they have been involved in that attack? >> reporter: so i'm not quite sure what you're acting there. >> did he act alone? >> reporter: did he act alone? okay. that's the question everybody is trying to answer and that's the crucial question. now, one of the answers to that would be where was the bomb made. was there -- where were the explosives put together. there is a suggestion from u.s. officials that some of the bomb was made with parts that couldn't have easily been obtained here in the uk. so there are -- there is one crucial line of investigation which will be, okay, where is the bomb-making factory. a bomb-making factory does not have to be particularly substantial, it can just be the corner of a room or a backyard. but they do need to find it and it does appear at this stage as if they don't know, and that will be worrying them.
>> all right, keir, stay safe. thank you. up next, the trump budget. the good, the bad and the massive accounting error. we're going to break all of it down. first, moments ago, trading began at the new york stock exchange. as you can see, the market is up. feeling up -- well, it feels like maybe it's a push. not much happening. unch, unchanged. that's how we're starting the day. ready or not, here i come. ♪ anyone can dream. making it a reality is the hard part. northrop grumman command and control systems always let you see the complete picture. and we're looking for a few dreamers to join us. wiback like it could used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with
intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena we're not professional athletes. but that doesn't mean we're giving up. i'm in this for me. for me. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. lowering a1c by up to 1.2 points. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing,
stop taking and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, serious urinary tract infections, low blood sugar, and kidney problems. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have signs of ketoacidosis, which is serious and may lead to death. i'm in this for my family. i'm in this for me. ask your doctor about farxiga and learn how you can get it for free. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
it'sand your doctor at yoto maintain your health.a because in 5 days, 10 hours and 2 minutes you are going to be 67. and on that day you will walk into a room where 15 people will be waiting... 12 behind the sofa, 2 behind the table and 1 and a half behind a curtain. family: surprise! but only one of them will make a life long dream come true. great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. at humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come. welcome back.
time now for money, power, politics. right now the director of the office of management and budget, mick mulvaney, is testifying before the house budget committee just one day after unveiling president trump's budget. fierce criticism is coming from both parties. the reason? the president's budget includes deep cuts to programs that provide assistance to children, the poor and the disabled, not to mention a simple accounting error that adds up to $2 trillion. a $2 trillion oversight. i want to bring in the president of the committee for a responsible federal budget along with my panel, ned ryan, zerlina m maxwell and rick stengel. yesterday steve mnuchin said to our colleague, john harwood, there needs to be some revisement or tweaking, but larry summers has said this is double counting. >> yeah, so it's very confusing what's gone in the budget in the first place because of the things that aren't there. there are no details about the tax plan, which is really one of the big centerpieces of the
overall budget in this budget submission. so what we do know is that the administration is relying on very, very high growth numbers to help get to their overall fiscal goal of balancing the budget. they're assuming 3% growth. they then show that there is a dividend, a savings that comes from those higher growth numbers that's going to be $2 trillion. again, that's based on high growth numbers. and they use it to help get the budget to balance. but what they have been saying for months now is that they're going to use those growth effects to help make their tax plan not explode the debt. so suddenly you've got the $2 trillion used to help get to balance and the $2 trillion being used to help offset the cost of the tax plan. again, it's very hard to tell what the thinking is behind there. is it just a huge oversight, kind of a mistake on purpose, or is there a broader plan. yesterday they started suggesting that they will pay for their entire tax plan so that it were revenue neutral. that would be good news, but it's certainly the first we've heard of it. >> how dangerous is such an aggressive gdp projection?
republican alan simpson of simpson and bowles said this is some wizard of oz nonsense talk that's never going to happen. >> yeah, i mean it's a fair point. our growth, we want to grow the economy. that's clearly a goal, one of the few bipartisan goals that should be out there. but we have real constraints because we are an aging society. the baby boomers are moving into retirement. we are not going to grow at 3% on a sustained basis. there's really no credible plan that would get us there. so in the end, the 3% is being used in many ways to paper over the fact that this budget that wants to balance, and i give them credit for trying to reach balance and do something about our big national debt, but the policies don't add up, don't get us to balance so that 3% growth rate is being used to plug that hole. in the end, the danger comes from when it doesn't materialize, it means the numbers are way off and we continue growing our already near record levels of debt. >> then in terms of spirit, ned, even though we don't know lots of details, the way this budget
looks we're seeing huge allotment accounted for infrastructure, defense, parental leave, and massive cuts to things like food stamps. why does that make sense? >> so there's a couple things to look at and i would say we've got, what, $46 million i think right now on food stamps. half of them have been on for ten years. there's something wrong with our food stamp program. >> then the program needs to be revised. to say we're not going to offer food stamps anymore -- >> i think what you've seeing is we are going to make an attempt to revise it. let's not forget, chuck schumer and nancy pelosi voted for cutting of $8 billion to the snap program in 2014, so even democrats realize there is a problem and we have to reform it. i think with this whole budget thing, i think that's a very valid point. we need to see more on this tax plan. i love the reform that's being discussed, three brackets, knocking the corporate rate to 15%, repatriating the foreign revenue. these are some things where republicans on the hill are going to have to get very serious about some of this stuff. you know, i think one of the things that i would like to have seen happen, again, i think
trump is doing an excellent job overseas. i would like to have seen them roll out the budget with him presenting. so i think in some ways i would have liked to have seen him present to push hard on this. >> rick, there's a headline from "the new york times" about trump's budget saying at least 1 million people will die in subsaharan africa and elsewhere with the proposed budget cuts as it relates to programs. a nationalist view would be saying why do we need to give any money to subsaharan africa. walk through us how damaging these cuts can be. >> yesterday i was at the care international conference in washington and admiral mike mullen was speaking, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. he said there are not enough bullets in the world for me to pay to make up for the cuts in the development aid budget at the state department and in the military budget. the problem is, is that the military knows is that soft power, development aid, water aid, food aid is what keeps stability around the world.
they have to fight in places where there isn't development aid. and in fact the thing that republicans don't understand, i had a conversation with a republican yesterday who said we spend too much on foreign aid. i said how about if we spent 2% of the budget on foreign aid. he said that would be fantastic. i said that means you would be doubling the foreign aid budget. it's a tiny part of the budget and it has a larger halo effect that helps us in a million different ways. >> maya, do you want to way in? >> admiral mike mullen has said on occasion that the biggest threat to this country is our national debt situation, so i always like to bring in that this is actually a national security issue in so many ways. i think the point is absolutely right. i think one of the real problems with this budget is that the president has taken so many things off the table. he's talked about what he wants to do. he wants to increase defense, increase infrastructure, but at the same time he's not open to raising revenue. so i think revenue neutral tax reform makes a whole lot of sense. but really troubling is he's said he's not going to touch
social security and medicare, despite the fact that they face major financing challenges. that means there is a huge amount of pressure on a very small sliver of the budget. the areas where we have public investments and programs for kids and welfare programs. and, yes, many of these things there are savings to be found, there are overhauls, but you can't balance the budget from that small a piece of the budget. so we need to not take things off of the table when figuring out how to get to balance or bring our debt down. we need to look at this much more comprehensively because you cannot focus on these tiny slivers of the budget and come up with a real fix. >> not touching medicare and addressing solvency of social security is exactly what alan simpson's issues were with this budget proposal. we've got to take a break. thank you so much, maya. you guys are sticking around. next, much more on the russia investigation. a friend of jim comey speaking out and saying the former fbi director has a, quote, story to tell. how worried should the white house be over his impending testimony? but before we go, do you ever
have the need, the need for speed? well, you are in luck. he's back. tom cruise confirmed to an australian morning show that "top gun 2" is on its way more than 30 years after the original. what a morning f me. first it's bob dylan's birthday and now this. >> is it true? >> it's true. >> really? >> yeah, it's true. >> really? >> really? >> yes. >> tom -- >> when? >> it's true. will your business be ready when growth presents itself?
brtry new flonase sensimists. allergy relief find out how american express cards and services instead of allergy pills. it delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only block one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. whoa,i just had to push one button to join. it's like i'm in the office with you, even though i'm here. it's almost like the virtual reality of business communications. no, it's reality. intuitive one touch video conferencing is a reality. and now it's included at no additional cost with vonage business. call now and see why 3,000 companies a month are switching to vonage. business grade. people friendly.
president trump is expected to hire a private attorney for the probe into his campaign ties with russia. this comes as the senate intelligence committee is expected to schedule a public hearing with former fbi director james comey as early as next week. new this morning, a friend of james comey and senior fellow of the brookings institute, benjamin wits, had this to say about what we should expect. >> he was asked to testify in private and he said no, so now it's going to be public. >> right. and i think that's a reflection of the fact that this is a guy with a story to tell. i think if i were donald trump, that would scare me a lot. >> i want to bring back my panel, ned ryan, zerlina maxwell
and rick stengel. the president has hired a new york attorney, a guy he's known for fit15 years. we know that the president likes to have people he trusts, his posse around him. given the trail that we're seeing, the president should be worried, james comey has a story to tell. is the president trying to bring a knife to a gun fight here? james comey kind of knows what he's doing. >> absolutely. i think that all of that concern that donald trump had, it's become clear as more details come out of what led up to the firing of jim comey. because it wasn't out of the blue, we're learning through reporting now that there were a number of different attempts by the president to attempt to obstruct the investigation. i'm not saying he committed obstruction of justice in the criminal sense, but there were clear attempts to try to stop the investigation into michael flynn and to stop the investigation into the russia collusion and to perhaps influence fbi director comey's investigation. and so i think that the president, rightly so, is hiring an attorney and should be
concerned because as americans, we all really do have to get to the bottom of this. i think that if there is evidence and we don't know yet if there is collusion or not, because we're not at the end of the investigation, just to go back to that point that was brought up earlier, so how to prevent it again. that's the question we don't get to because we're all wrapped up in the collusion question. but for me as an american, i care that they hacked our democracy and i want to prevent them from doing that again. >> need we know at the end of this you don't believe there's collusion. >> right. >> but are you concerned at all with regard to james comey's testimony that the president did at least attempt to obstruct justice even if there's nothing at the end repeatedly saying let's make this go away, can you push this to the side? >> i'm not. it's not just me. i'm looking al allen dershowitz, and those with far greater legal minds than i do saying there's
not much there. >> that's not what alan dershowitz said though. >> i think some of the things that are getting confused here, russians have been trying to interfere with our elections for decades. >> that's what we're asking. >> no. but i'm saying for those listening, there's a real difference between interference and collusion. >> i'm not asking about that. the president attempting to obstruct justice. alan dershowitz didn't say he didn't do it. alan said we need to find out the extent of what he said. >> but right now there is no evidence from what we've seen in regards to any obstruction. i think the thing i'm excited about is comey is going to have an open hearing. i want to see him in the open. i want to have the conversation. but the thing about any impediment, any attempts, you had comey under oath may 3rd, you had acting director mccabe under oath. there have been no attempt to impede. >> that's not true. after comey testified, that's when we went to the directors of
national intelligence trying to get them to make a statement. comey testified and two weeks later he's going to the directors of national intelligence that testified yesterday and said donald trump asked us to say that there was no collusion publicly. >> so under oath or what he just said? there's a problem with that. >> i'm talking about the time line of what donald trump did mop what director comey did. he testified and said there was an investigation and then trump took action to obstruct the investigation. >> i want to share a little more of what we heard in that interview. take a look. >> so the direct -- he did not regard the people in the trump white house as honorable? >> that's correct. i have no doubt that he regarded the group of people around the president as dishonorable. >> that's kind of a big deal to say that the president or people around the president are considered dishonorable. given the amount of leaks from the administration, from the intelligence community, how does this get solved? i mean to say dishonorable is a
big deal. >> there are multiple investigations going on. there's the house investigation, the senate investigation, the special counsel. the thing that i don't think people understand about the collusion argument is you can abuse power and obstruct justice covering up a crime that didn't happen. maybe there wasn't collusion but that doesn't mean the president didn't abuse power in talking to the head of dni, the head of nsa saying please don't pursue this investigation. maybe there's nothing there. but that kind of behavior is potentially culpable behavior and it doesn't matter whether the initial crime happened or not. >> does it matter if the president realized it was culpable behavior? >> you see, the thing about impeachme impeachment. >> oh my gosh. >> the constitution is very big about it, high crimes and misdemeanors. it's what the senate and the house decide that it is. there's no particular law like
you cross the street against a red light. they have to figure out what it is. and that kind of behavior, whether it was witting or unwitting as brendan said, maybe it was unwitting, that doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime. >> should the president be forgiven if he didn't realize what he was doing was unethical or inappropriate because at the end of the day -- >> first of all we don't know what took place. you saw brennan saying yesterday he has not talked to anyone who has given him indication that there was action to impede or obstruct justice. now we're talking impeachment. >> hold on. rick didn't say -- hold on. need, rick didn't say let's impeach him. >> no, no, no. >> what rim said was it's very vague. >> no. but what i'm saying, the fact that we're even talking about impeachment to me is just, oh my gosh. >> there's historical precedence. >> this is crazy. >> do you want my list of oh my goshes it's a lot longer than
the word impeachment. >> i think what you're looking at again is the democrats are getting themselves, some of them, are getting so worked up that maybe we'll get a crack at him to impeach him. i don't see it happening. >> she's focused on the evidence and i think maxine waters has been consistent in talking about the oil and gas money that is actually a big part of this. >> we don't have to talk about maxine waters calling for impeachment. if you're highly offended by these oh my goshes then i'm sad that we only have an hour. in you want my list of oh my goshes, it started 18 months ago. coming up, much more on the budget this afternoon when bernie sanders joins andrea mitchell at noon. suffice it to say, he's not a fan. fan. stay with us. chop that thing down. the clarity you seek... lies within the creditwise app from capital one. creditwise helps you protect your credit. and it's completely free for everyone. it's free for everyone? do hawks use the stars to navigate?
i don't know. aw, i thought you did. i don't know either. either way it's free for everyone. cool. what's in your wallet? p3 planters nuts, jerky and whaseeds.at? i like a variety in my protein. totally, that's why i have this uh trail mix. wow minty. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. what's going on? oh hey!
♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ all umm...ed. you wouldn't want your painter to quit part way, i think you missed a spot.
that wraps us up for hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. you can find me on twitter. right now to chris jansing for more news. there is a lot happening this wednesday morning. president trump landing any minute now in beautifrussels. already today, an historic face-to-face encounter with pope francis. what the two men said to each other. new information on the manchester bombing investigation, police arresting more supports. the uk maxing out its terror threat level and fears another attack could be eminent. back here at home, congress
trying to move on big legislation. and more bipartisan balks at the president's budget. we're going to get to all of this. our team traveling with the president. i want to start with kelly o'donnell who has been with the president and he's now about to arrive in brussels. what's on the president's agenda today? >> good to >>. >> reporter: good to be with you. we're at the grounds of nato. we're in a makeshift spot for you. they're conducting a rehearsal for the big welcome ceremony and for security reasons they shooed up us off of the platform. the president is expected to land shortly. he and the first lady will have two events today before calling it a night. they've had a very evanful day with their time in rome and at the
IN COLLECTIONSMSNBC West Television Archive Television Archive News Search Service
Uploaded by TV Archive on