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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  May 24, 2017 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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@alivelshi, snapchat @velshi. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. today as president trump turns from the tightly scripted part of his first overseas trip to the unpredictable realm of diplomacy, the man he told to stay strong, former national security adviser, mike flynn, is facing mouche ining mounting le at home. members of the house intelligence committee are talking about subpoenas for mike flynn and his companies as part of the investigation into flynn and possible ties between donald trump's campaign and russia. this follows calls yesterday from the senate intel committee for the same material. we go straight to our reporters covering the latest developments. nbc's peter alexander is at the white house, "new york times" reporter glenn thrush joins us from his newsroom. kasie hunt made it by the hair of her chinny chin chin. kasie, i want to start with you,
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you grabbed ranking member adam schiff today and had an amazing conversation with him. set that up for us. >> reporter: you're giving me away, nicolle. no, so, yes, i talked to adam schiff earlier today. some of this is basically the house side following what the senate side has done on a lot of this. essentially first, of course, both sides issuing subpoenas around documents, finding out, okay, he's going to plead the fifth on those documents. coming back around saying, all right, we're going to subpoena you, yourself, michael flynn, and subpoena your businesses that in theory could rproduce some of the same records they asked for in essentially arguing your biusinesses can't plead th fifth, we'd like to see that information. there's one key difference between what the house and senate seem to be doing, respective intelligence committees, on the question of immunity. senator burr, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee basically said, look, that's not on the table. we're not offering mike flynn immunity. when i talked to adam schiff, we had a little bit of a different
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response. take a look. >> the larger question, of course, is the question of immunity and here i think we have to try to get information by every means possible without having to entertain that. if ultimately we do need to look at that, then we're going to want to talk to bob mueller, find out what prosecutorial equities would be involved. those are going to be important that we not interfere with what the justice department may or may not want to do. >> reporter: so you do still have immunity on the table just to clarify? the senate side committee has basically said there's no way we're going to offer michael film flynn immunity? >> count me as deep skeptical, i don't think we're anywhere near being able to entertain that idea. >> reporter: schiff went on to say they want some idea of what michael flynn might bring to the table in event he was given immunity. that would be a potentially pretty interesting twist. of course, the wildcard here is bob mueller. that's something that is now potentially affected by both or either of these investigations
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and both sides want to tread very carefully and not affect the outcome of that special counsel investigation, nicolle. >> thanks, kasie. glenn thrush, we started in the trees because kasie brought us right to the center of the story, but i want you to take us back to the forest. how central is mike flynn to the broader investigation into ties between trump's orbit and russia? >> well, he's critical insofar as his testimony will determine whether or not there are deeper connections to the trump team, or if flynn was just this crazy outlier. you know, one of the things that has been persistent in our reporting on the white house is president trump still pines for michael flynn. my clegg and my colleague, maggie haberman and i reported the president isn't that kracrazy about gener mcmaster and told people in his orbit he still likes michael flynn. we're going to learn one of two things about this, nicolle.
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first off, the investigation may yield a deeper connection with the campaign, whether or not that leads to the president is not known, that's number one, but secondly, let's say flynn wasn't really associated with the campaign in terms of his interactions with the russians, then we get to the question of the president's judgment of not only inviting him into the administration, keeping him when other people wanted him gone and pining for him afterwards. so, at the very best, the best-case scenario is the story will lead to a question about the president's judgment. the other potentiality here is that he's granted immunity and talks and, again, this is hypothetic hypothetical, talks with greater detail about his connections to the campaign. >> glenn, since you went to the pining, i've talked about him the same way. a great piece about maggie about how trump can't quit maggie haberman. he can't quit mike flynn, either. i don't think it's loyalty. i think it's a connection he doesn't have to anybody else. it's like he just cannot cut
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that tie and he's gone so far as to fire his fbi director and to plead with with him to drop the case, drop the investigation, because he's a good guy. what do you think it is that flynn and trump share? >> well, nicolle, the first thing i have to say is if you're talking about good relationships that are going for people, i would tell trump immediately, stick with maggie. i mean, i think -- >> flynn's a little toxic? >> yeah. i think the maggie relationship -- >> maggie is part of talk therapy. i agree. >> a lot better. look, you know, flynn was one of the few defend erers the presid had when the entire military establishment and foreign policy establishment signed letters saying that he shouldn't be president. he is a guy who i think shares a lot of the president and steve bannon's world view about the rise of globalism and militarism. he was a harsh critic of hillary clinton's. i think the two men, trump and flynn, have a lot in common.
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i think they're really simpatico. it's an interesting instance for a president who doesn't show a lot of loyalty to people, he's showing that to michael flynn. >> they have something else in common, they've both lawyered up as you've been reporting all day. >> that's exactly right. you were talking loyalty with glenn. the man decided he's going to obtao obtain a man by the name of mark kazowitz. mark and the president go back for 15 years, this is his longtime manhattan attorney. donald trump used kazowitz in his past divorces, used him more recently when threatening a l libel suit against "the new york times," women accusing then-candidate trump of inappropriately touching them. it's the basis of that which makes the president feel comfortable with kazowitz.
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what's notable about kazowitz, his firm is the firm of joe lieberman, the president, himself, said was one of the finalists for the fbi director, has worked for for each of the last four years. new reporting today the white house may have moved on past joe lieberman, i'm told by sources here that are familiar with the decisionmaking process that he's not completely ruled out but they have broadened the search to try to look at others as well. the fact that he is bringing on kazowitz and officials at the white house say they may have others join the team does sort of demonstrate the seriousness with which this president and his staff view the situation certainly after the appointment of that special prosecutor, robert mueller. >> and my own sources told me last week that there were -- there was an effort inside and outside the white house to convince the president that he needed to take this step. are you surprised by who he selected? "bloomberg" describes kazowitz as someone who's not a criminal defense lawyer, not attended to the ways of washington and not
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from a white shoe law firm, but a bare knuckle litigator, fiercely loyal defender of president trump, maneuvering through the high-profile legal brawls such as the sexual harassment scandal of former fox news host bill o'reilly. doesn't sound like bob mueller or special counsel appointed to investigate ties to russia would be accustom to dealing with and that seems like the president's biggest legal problem. >> reporter: yeah, the president for kazowitz's firm describes him as especially being white collar defense, but i think you named it there as they describe what his strengths are, his strengths are that fierce loyalty and that fierce position as a defender of the president. the end of the day, we can talk about it all we like. it bears repeating this is a president who feels comfortable with family and old friends first. mark kazowitz certainly checks that back. >> peter, thank you, kasie, thank you, glenn, thank you forbeing with us. i'm going to bring if my panel. here with us, ohio governor john kasich, of course, ran against president trump in the republican primary. he just released a great new book "two paths: america divided or united."
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also on the panel today msnbc political analyst elise jordan, former adviser to senator rand paul. joel benenson, also an msnbc political analyst and the senior adviser to the hillary clinton campaign. and msnbc's stephanie ruhle whose new business show "velshi & ruhle" just premiered. once again, we pulled you out of another studio and stuck you in that chair. you're fresh off a hot turn on "the view" today. they're a tough crowd. i heard you were a big hit. >> it was really great. i know more pop culture -- >> than i do. i got fired because i couldn't name two kardashians -- >> it was all fun. i sat in between whoopi and joy. it was fantastic. >> they love you. >> i had a great time. >> from yesterday, this is trey gowdy questioning former cia director brennan anlt the investigation into russia. >> did you see evidence of collusion, coordination,
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conspiracy, between donald trump and russian state actors? >> i saw information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such cooperation or conclusion was taking place. >> that doesn't help us a lot. what was the nature of the information? >> as i said, mr. goudy, i think this committee now has access to the type of alluding to here. it's classified and i'm happy to talk about it in a classified session. >> that would have been directly between the candidate and russian state actors? >> that's not what i said. i'm not going to talk about any individuals. >> so what i see is a republican party taking up a very part dis and adversarial posture against the intel chiefs. i wonder if bob mueller finds there were connections, contacts between trump's orbit and the russians if the gop would have been on the wrong side of history. >> well, i think, i said it over and over again, i was on a panel
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with bernie sanders and the bottom line is republicans shouldn't hide and democrats shouldn't exploit. we ought to get to the bottom line and you have all these committees now that are running around. they all want to have a hearing no now. i understand the way that works. i think the intelligence committee in the snoenate has bn nr steady. the house. adam schiff, when i talked to him one times if you're above politics, you'll become a star. you have bob mueller. let's get to the bottom of it and figure out what's going on so we can move on. so many other things we have to do. total transparency. the great thing about mueller is i think, you know, in a short time, he's gained credibility with the american people and at the end when everything is said and done, we want people to say, okay, they've investigated it, here's what they found. hopefully they found nothing because we don't want to have a wounded president, we'll move on to the other issues. that's kind of the way i see it. >> joel, today the house followed the senate's lead in issuing subpoenas, saying they're going to issue subpoenas
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for mike flynn and his businesses. where do you think -- are the democrats taking this to where the governor says it needs to go, revealing facts, or do you think they're walking up against the line of being too political? >> no, i think they're going after facts. look, certainly, i'm a great believer people have constitutional rights. if mike flynn wants to invoke his fifth amendment, he's within his rights. he's been at the epicenter of this for months now. talked about trump and his relationship with flynn before. we know trump remains very loyal to people. you said he's not actually people he likes -- >> all thee of them. ivanka, mike flynn. who's the third in zblals told by his mentor, cohn, to never apologize or -- >> even if he admitted a crime? >> i don't think he's going to throw mike flynn under the bus. it would be admitting a mistake and admitting i think something governor kay ssich made a point about. we need to get to the bottom of this. if russia is meddling in our
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elections -- >> they are. we know they meddled, right? is that an unknown -- >> no, i believe it's known. trey gowdy apparently has suspicions about it. >> straight out of the gate after president trump won the election, he could have said let's do a full-scale election -- excuse me, let's do a full-scale investigation into what russia did. he didn't. lawmakers are asking deutsche bank, the one known global lender to the trump organization, to see those loan documents. meaning has deutsche bank reassigned those loans, maybe to banks in cypress, maybe to banks in rush sla? if that's the case, it's like, hey, president trump, don't be so cute here, just give the information. wouldn't it be devastating if all of this -- if this trust has been lost and maybe the cover-up will end up being worse than the act. >> you're a student of political history. that happens from time to time, right? >> no politician i know says, here, let me give you all the stuff and come investigate me or whatever. >> but not about him. why -- >> look, here's what i'm saying. mueller is going to get to the
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bottom line. he's going to have the power that he needs and the resources he needs to figure this out. i think the senate intelligence committee with warner and burr are doing a good job. i mean, and i think at the end we're kind of going to know where things are and i don't think things are going to be -- i hope they're not going to be swept under the rug because if we don't get a conclusion that people say -- people like you -- can say, fair, done, complete, here's what we found, then we're going to continue to be divided andi andi and, look, nothing will get done. the health care bill. who knows what's going to happen there, what's going to that on tax, who knows what's going to happen to the economy. the last thing we need is more distrust inside of our country. >> elise, do you think anything is going to get done? >> that's the question i have for you. i personally don't. i think we're completely paralyzed right now. i think the news cycle surrounding this russia probe has completely sucked up all the oxygen. how do you come out and pitch comprehensive tax reform and get anyone to pay attention when there's such crazy news swirling about constantly? >> you spent time -- what --
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>> do you think -- we have both houses, we have a republican president. do you think we'll have major legislation this year? >> you cannot write major legislation with one party. it doesn't work. obama tried it. obamacare is, you know, under fire every day. if the republicans do it and they do it alone, it isn't going to last and if you go back to the last time we had tax reform, because this is one of the hardest things to do, there was a really -- >> why is it so hard? because you're picking winners and losers. >> picking winners and losers and you have to do it together. the last time we had tax reform, i think was before you were born. it was in 1986. >> i'm being flattered. i don't think that's the case. >> it was a torturous path. you had -- >> president reagan -- when he thanks all parties involved, it was -- i mean, it took a year and a half to get this done. think about the sheet, the one pager with 200 words on it that
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the president and steve mnuchin and gary cohn put forward last month. give me a break. that's not comprehensive tax reform. hardcore ardent trump supporters who stuck with him because they wanted jobs and health care reform, they will turn when those get delivered -- do not get delivered -- >> i got to ask you, will trump supporters ever turn? i kept waiting for them to turn it you. they didn't. >> if they don't get jobs and things are not brightening, then they're going to say, i didn't get anything. and, look, this is a problem because if people feel that nobody tells them the truth, they're left behind, nobody cares about them, it's really, really bad for the psychology of the country. so, we got to hope that some of this is going to happen, but i'm concerned. look, i did the budget deal in '97, you know, if i didn't have a cooperative white house with bill clinton, we never would have gotten it done. when we did it, when we did it in those days, the economy grew like crazy. people had hope. >> you had 3% growth in the '
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'90s. that's not going to come back any time soon. >> that's why we need to get this done. we need to find out everything as quickly as we can. >> on russia. >> yeah, everything they're looking at. >> russia, flynn. >> get it all done and move on. you know it's also going to take the republican leaders to work with the democrats and say, let's all get together, let's try -- kumbaya a little bit. >> all right. >> i think you've got another problem, though. i think you've got control of all houses and the white house. you've got a nonideological president in the white house, really not a traditional conservative. you've got the freedom caucus sks you've got the tuesday caucus. you've got rifts all through the republican party and in fairness to the democrats, the republicans didn't cooperate a lot under obama's years until they had to. >> we're not going to -- we do have to take a pause. we're going to take a break. our panel is staying. we're hoped to be joined by a member of the house intel committee coming up to talk about flynn. also the reporter who took the deepest dive yet into jared
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kushner's role as a real estate mogul. we'll talk to him about one of the most popular stories on "the new york times'" website this week. loose lips sink ships. what do you think they do to nuclear submarines? how the pentagon is responding to president trump's penchant for oversharing, when we come back. can you love wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®.
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add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to in four months, we had to go from being an opposition party to a governing party. the health care, i wouldn't want
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to repeat the health care experience, but i'm glad we went through it. i thought it was very cathartic. i'm glad we went through it because what it did is it got our members to acknowledge that. >> i got a ringer on my panel today who can speak to the perils of governing or not governing, ohio governor john kasich. before i let him in, we're figog to be joined by jonathan swan from axios. he writes "republican leaders are coming to the bleak conclusion that the summer will end and begin the fall, end the summer and begin the fall with no major policy accomplishments. privately, they realize it's political malpractice to blow at least the first nine months of an all-republican rule but also they realize there's little they can do to avoid the dismal failure." governor, what excuse is in getting nothing done in, you know, jonathan's reporting, fall, winter, spring and summer? >> governing is hard, and, you know -- >> you govern. you govern in a tough battleground state. >> yeah, i did, but i did it by
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trying to, you know, bring people together and i didn't have a lot of promises that i didn't think i could keep. so when they say we're going to just get rid of obamacare, right, they find out it's not very easieasy. >> what role did you play? i think you went into the white house when sort of the republican repeal 1.0 was being discussed. what role did you play with the president? what'd you tell him to do? >> i said we needed to have some power to be able to negotiate with pharma. i said medicaid expansion hel d helped -- >> did you tell him it was bad to repeal obamacare? >> i gave him a list of things i thought should be done. he agreed with them. >> did he seem to understand all them? what's this grasp on health care policy? >> there was no argument from him. >> good answer. >> when i talked about the need to have leverage on pharma to get prices down, he called gary cohn in and said, hey, i agree with him. that's not in the bill. >> he might say, hey, i agree
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with him, now, gary, you go off and get that done. does that -- >> what's young with that, steph? >> because the president continues to make promises that are not necessarily in line with what conservatives believe and they're really hard to do. >> what's wrong with that, joel? >> well, forgetting what steph said whether there's anything wrong with that, dispatching someone who has the clout to help can be. what i'm taking issue with is paul ryan saying they had four months to figure out how to govern. they've had control of congress since 2010. they've had the senate and the house. what have they been doing for six years? how did they get to a point where we wanted to repeal and replace obamacare and they didn't have a bill? shame on them. this is a complete failure of leadership on the part of the republican leaders whoever been in power for seven years. they didn't wake up one day and suddenly have control of congress. >> elise, there's a reason we pick all of our presidential nominees from the statehouses, not the congress. what were they doing for six years? >> i think they were too busy
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chanting and not spending enough time thinking about how hard it was going to be to reform a major government program. turning it back. margaret thatcher tried in the uk. you never have any luck giving something out and then taking it back. certainly that's what we're seeing now. it's amazing, obamacare is actually popular again because the republicans -- >> the first time. >> exactly. for the very first time because republicans have handled this so incompete incompetently. >> we're pounding on republicans, okay? i happen to be a republican. listen, the prn president obaobn got a lot of things wrong and did not know how to work with republicans on the hill. there was great missed opportunity there. just ask david axelrod -- >> i talk to boehner six times a week. >> john boehner says the same thing you're siaying, a great missed opportunity was the failure of the president to stand with him and do a grand bargain. >> not just that, it was the whole atmosphere. they didn't have the ability to talk to congress. we've seen -- what's happened is both parties are have move emov.
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people are more willing to be for a party than a country. that's not what makes us great down there andmakes us great -- >> let me bring jonathan swan into the conversation. we talked about his great reporting. we've shown paul ryan at his event this morning. let me bring you into this conversation about paul ryan's sort of state of mind. he looked a little defeated. your reporting certainly suggests republicans are acknowledging they will get nothing done. >> there's a lot of concern, we quoted in our story someone who's very close to paul ryan and he was very pessimistic as are a lot of people about the prospects for getting health care done this year, and, of course, that also puts in jeopardy tax reform. this person referred to the event that hthey held in the white house after they passed it through the house as the bon jovi rally. they were halfway there. he said this is really amateur hour in terms of celebrating
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something that has only passed through the house and is, in fact, running into very, very strong headwinds in the senate. so strong that mitch mcconnell is now saying he doesn't see a path to 50 votes. >> joel, let me ask you to respond. mitch mcconnell acknowledging he doesn't see a path to 50 votes as well as whatever you want to respond to. >> i think everybody knew as soon as the house, you know, had that victory celebration, by the way, obamacare is still the law of the land, i think we all know, that it was going to be a challenge in the senate. it was going to be a challenge in the senate for some of the reasons that the governor pointed out. there are things in there that are going to be odious for a lot of states that are represented by senators who care about the whole state. there are going to be states like ohio, like kentucky, that are rae leally going to be hurt what they tried to do in the health care bill. my point about the tenure under the president, president obama, was, you know, senator mitch mckoj wm mcconnell said on day one our number-one mission is to make this president a first-term president. you never heard that in any of your years in congress from any
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leader in congress that that was a mission. i said repeatedly that throughout the previous president, even bush presidency, democrats voted for the patriot act. democrats voted for bush tax cuts. democrats voted for medicare part "d." no child left behind. there was a lot of bipartisanship in that period with a republican president and that congress. you go back to obama's years, we had to pass an infrastructure bill, which everybody had always agreed on, without republican votes. we had to pass every piece of major legislation without republican votes. so, i agree with you on your macro point about both parties have to put cooperation, compromise is not a dirty word. >> yeah. >> the term, rino, republican in name only, is a term that was created on the right that i think has made it harder for every republican to compromise. and i think we got to get back -- >> you know what, i though -- >> i'm going to give you the last word. >> i don't agree with that and i'll tell you why. so the leader says something, so what. you're the president. you're in the white house. you start calling people down there. you say, i need to have --
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>> personal diplomacy. >> absolutely. >> fair point. >> not enough of it has been done. i'm not here just to -- >> sure. >> none of it is working nor now. we need some significant things done. obamacare needs repaired. it will not last the way it kur currently is particularly with the insurance exchange. we have to have a health care bill that fixes snurnl es insurs sure people have it and get to the bottom line of why we have -- prepyre peopare people digital economy. is our education system giving kids the skills they need to compete and win? the difference between the rich and poor. how do we stop the divide? these are all things we have to work on and give people hope again. all we're doing is fighting. isn't going to happen. >> amen. >> we will fix it. >> amen to that. >> how about bottom up instead of -- >> why didn't this guy get the republican nomination? that's what i want to know. >> let me ask you a question,
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gofsh governor, the rate he fires people, he's hiring people. would you serve in his cabinet? >> i'm governor. i have the second best job in america. >> what's the first? >> governor. second best -- >> are you going to run again? >> i'm hoping to get a permanent job as one of the permanent hosts of the -- >> you got a seat at this table any time you want it. >> i should lobby for that. >> listen, you're hired. before you leave the building, someone will track you down with papers. governor kasich, thank you for joining us. don't forget to check out the governor's new book, "two paths: america divided or united." we all vote for united. still ahead, a new report is shedding light on the man who has the president's ear more than anyone else, his son-in-law jared kushner, with exclusive reporting on his real estate empire. the author of that report joins the panel next. got it. rumor confirmed. they're playing. -what? -we gotta go. -where? -san francisco. -when? -friday. we gotta go.
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we have in the audience a special person who's worked very hard, who married very well. it's my daughter, ivanka. where is she? i sort of stole her husband. he is so great. if you can't produce peace in the middle east, nobody can. okay? all my life, i've been hearing that's the toughest deal in the world to make. and i've seen it. but i have a feeling that jared is going to do a great job. >> that was donald trump praising his son-in-law, jared kushner, the night before he was sworn in as president. i feel like i've aged 100 years since then. kushner a white house senior adviser is playing a key role in many of his father-in-law's initiatives including heading the white house office of american innovation. before heading to the white house, he ran his family's rell estate company. a new article published in "the new york times" magazine gives
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us an inside look at how that company deals with people who live or used to live in some of its apartment complexes. joining the pam nnel, alex mcgis who wrote the piece for "the new york times" magazine and msnbc contributor jason, politics editor for the thank you for joiningous motley crew today. the piece is stunning for me. i've never worked in real estate. give us some of the top lines but also answer for me whether this is standard in the industry, or whether these practices were more vicious than what is standard for the real estate industry. >> so what i found is we hear about jared kushner and his real estate holdings. we think of him as a big fancy real estate guy in a big tower on 5th avenue. in fact, he has a huge collection on downscale apartment complexes in marylands, around the country, the biggest kis right in baltimore. 15 complexes. 8,000 units. what we found is that there's just incredible pursuit of the
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tenants and former tenants of these complexes where they go after them for any missing rent, any broken lease, even when it's not justified. >> you write a wrenching story about a single mom i think of three who worked as a home health care attendant and ended up owing them a few thousand dollars and they pursued her and pursued her and ultimately garnished her wages. >> absolutely. that case, it was kbhecompletel unjustified. >> why? >> she'd gotten written permission to move out of her unit. a neighbor acting crazy next door skrecreaming at her kids. >> waking up the neighbor's ni. >> moved out. two layears later the kushner company which bought the complex wech went after her for $5,000. >> why do they spend more? it has to cost them more in legal fees to pursue people who are working class or economically down scale. what is the driving principle of it? is it outside the mainstream of
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the real estate industry? >> not if you got lawyers on staff. few you have a huge legal team already on staff, if this is done as a template, all you have to do as a form letter is repeatedly send it out and go after these people. for an individual, that's when they have to go out and get themselves representation. if you're a company, you say how could president trump have been involved, himself, in 4,000 lawsuits? when you got lawyers you're paying no matter what, you can have all the lawsuits you want. >> here's one of the other things. in the -- baltimore is actually the first city in america to have rent courts like they. >> introduced them 70 years ago to prevent this nonsense. you don't have to have a lawyer. you can send a real estate agent to represent your company. regular people don't know that. single moms don't know that who are working two, three different jobs. it is a huge burden on regular people. costs nothing to folks like jared kushner. >> do you see this becoming a political vulnerability for the president? or is it too far removed? is there enough -- >> i think as good as the story is, i think it's an interesting story, i think it is a little too far removed and it's also not going to rise to the level
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of everything else that we're dealing with in washington. he's going to come back from an overseas trip. nato meetings the next two days which i think -- >> anything could happen. let's face it. >> i think with the environment now. right? it's going to be a very interesting set of meetings with our allies. he's going to come back. we're going to be thrust back into more russia stuff. a budget plan that's going to be disastrous for a lot of republicans. and the states and districts they represent. so while the story certainly does pique curiosity and interest of why somebody would do this, i don't think it's going to have long legs politically. >> speaks to the eethos. can you imagine the bush family conducting their business like this? ivanka trump ran her brand, had a woman who joined her who was pregnant, the woman said what's your maternity leave policy? ivanka said, i don't have one, i came back to work the day after i had my baby. does that story mean she shouldn't be senior adviser to the president? when you start to add all of these up, you say do these people truly understand the
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basic difference between right and wrong? >> stephanie -- >> can i put you on the spot? >> great point. >> can i put you on the spot and ask you based on the reporting, first answer, how involved jared is in the running of the company, what did it tell you about how he runs the company and whether he knows the answer t to stephanie's question, the difference between right and wrong? >> he prides himself on being a real estate guy. he was very proud of making purchases when they made them in 2011, 2012. he spoke at length on them, why he bought he is complexes. >> called them a great asset. >> great asset and, you know, great revenue stream. and this -- he was the ceo of this company until, you know, just a few months ago when he stepped back to take on his new job. and this company was behaving differently than other companies in this business. they were going after people that they bought these complexes and going after people who the previous owners had not gone
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after in court. >> go ahead. >> i have to admit, look, i sort of agree and disa a gree. i have to drive through baltimore every other day when i go to class, i see the devastation of this city. it's the same way east cleveland looks, same way parts of st. louis looks. this is an american nightmare. this is a devastation that trump talked about yet his own son is involved in it. hey, like father like son because trump had the same problems in the '80s. i don't think this is going to be a huge issue now. we got russia, other things going on. down the road, these things trickle down. regular people remember -- or don't work at all because the pipes don't work. these things eventually resonate with regular people when they say, wait a minute, these guys are taking advantage of us, i don't see this new great america i was promised. >> jared prides himself on being a big-time rell estate guy. big time real estate guys do not participate in the eb- 5 visa program. that's a rule. >> congratulations on your
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reporting, second most popular story on "the new york times'" website. thanks so much for being was. when we come back, we have breaking news from capitol hill on the other side of this break. i count on my dell small business advisor
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the congressional budget office released its report on the health care bill passed by the house earlier this month. let's get to nbc's kasie hunt who we just can't quit on capitol hill. >> reporter: hi, nicolle. we do have breaking news with the cbo report as expected late this afternoon. so the initial top line, we've been talking about whether or not the house may have made some errors in this bill and would need to have another dramatic floor vote. that is not the case based on this cbo score. this estimate says that it will save about $119 billion over the course of 10 years. they needed the number to be more than $2 billion. they cleared the threshold easily. this will allow them to send the bill to the senate and proceed to next steps. there are numbers in here that are a little different from what we knew before, the original version of this bill had been
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scored. of course, they voted ow ed on new tweaked version without having this information. they say here 23 million americans would lose insurance under this bill compared to current law. previously, they had said 24 million people would lose insurance. one thing i do think is worth pointing out, they do make a distinction, the cbo, between people who would live in states where these essential health benefits and other key pars of obamacare would remain in place, and states where they potentially would waive all of those requirements. you remember that was the major change that republicans made to help get the freedom caucus, those conserve ti members onboard. they said, okay, states, you can opt out of these key things if you show you can cover people in another way. the other thing the cbo says here is that they're very doubtful that states can actually cover people in another way. that they believe, according to this report, that those with pre-existing conditions would be ultimately unable to purchase
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health insurance at premiums that are about what they face under current law. essentially that if you have a pre-existing condition and live in a state that waives these requirements, it's likely your premium would skyrocket. now, the other piece of news that republicans were looking for was an overall decrease in premiums and the cbo does estimate those premiums were people in states that don't waive these requirements, and they continue under kind of the obamacare-style system, that those premiums would decline by about 4% over the course of 10 years. by 2026. but the challenges that we would return a little bit according to the cbo so the way things were before. if you're younger and healthier, you're paying much less. if you're older and sicker, you're paying a lot more. those are some of the key ten ntenets in the law that would allow insurance companies to adjust premiums on a wider range than they can right now. on the whole, again, this awe lows republicans to move forward. this allows the senate to start writing this bill.
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but at the end of the day, these metrics not necessarily dramatically different from the ones we saw before. >> all right. kasie hunt doing double duty for us. thank you, kasie. steph, is this a relief for republicans? the wheels of legislation grind on? or is this a political loser? >> depends what republican you are. if you're one in the senate, you're going, damn, now it's my turn. the fact they don't have to go back to the drawing board is some quha what of a positive. remember where we're coming from and how difficult this is. this isn't a disastrous situation by any means but has a long way to go. >> does the political ad write itself -- it used to be we pushed grannies off the hill, elise and i are used to defending ourselves from those attacks. this is still 23 million people losing health care. that's serious if wow got a sick kid. >> here's another number in there that no one is highlighting yet is by 2026, we'll have 50 million people under the age of 6 65 uninsuredn america.
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that's nine years away. that's going to sound like tomorrow to a lot of people when that number gets injected that 50 million americans will be without insurance. i think stephanie's right, i think the senate thinks their migraine headache just got a lot worse and they actually now have to do something. now on the flip side of that, you know, paul ryan can actually exert some leadership and get moderates and conservatives to act like responsible legislators, you might be able to make some headway and some progress here and make this work. >> yeah, the senate doesn't want to deal with this. no one wants to deal with. they can't do tax reform until they get it fixed. here's the thing -- >> because they don't have the money. >> because they don't have the money. 23 million, 24 million, that is a death knell for the midterm elections. everyone knew the republicans were going to make it cheaper. that's what they always promised. there was no doubt they would get this under budget. the idea is if you cannot increase coverage, if you're going to throw people off their health insurance, no matter how you try and spin it, they're going to vote you out next year unless they decide they're not going to kick this in until
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after the midterms. >> elise, how do you defend a republican in an election in the midterms from what jason -- >> this is actually better than i expected from the cbo, they have substantial savings of $119 billion. it wasn't looking that way in previous estimates of the prior plan. you get one of two on this. you got republicans who see this money that's the health care, how it's hemorrhaging, then you've got republicans who are concerned about letting 23 million people out of their coverage so you get one or the other. it's at least one with this. whereas previously, they got neither. >> all right. all right. just hitting pause here. we're going to keep this going. joining us from capitol hill, congresswoman jackie spear from the house intelligence committee. we're going to join you into double duty as we do everybody who stumbles into our 4:00 hour. first, any reaction on the cbo numbers about the republican health care bill? >> well, the stunning number is 23 million americans will lose their health insurance and the pre-existing condition issue is still very real because in the
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end, you are going to be able to get health insurance but it's going to cost so much more and that's why so many people with pre-existing condition do not have health insurance before the affordable care act came into being. so it's still pre-existing cond don't have insurance. depending on when the republicans put it on the president's desk, could it hurt they will or not hurt them in mid terms. >> when you all get together behind closed doors, when no reporters can see you, is there any irony in how popular republicans made obamacare? just shrug your shoulders. >> especially since we voted 66 times, i believe, over the course of four years to repeal it. there were 66 efforts by the republicans to repeal it outright. and now they're finding it very difficult to repeal it. because they're hearing from their constituents. and i can't begin to tell what
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you my constituents say. i have some mothers who have followed me around from town hall to town hall saying you can't do this. my son has asthma. we would have lost our house if we didn't have the affordable care act when he was born. i mean, there are really traumatized people out there. i think we're hearing that across the country. >> i heard that in my reporting too. regarding the subpoena for mike flynn's business records, what are you looking for? >> we're looking for evidence that he lied. we're looking for evidence that he has not complied with the law. all of that will factor into, why? what was he trying to cover up? >> are you personally still open to granting him immunity? the senate intelligence community has taken that off the table but we've heard from congressman schiff that might be an open question.
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what are your personal views for mike flynn if he dishes? >> i think the real question is what will he offer us that will help us get to the bottom of this horrific circumstance? not only did we have the russians interfering with our loe mexico we have never seen, we have this poe financial the trump campaign personnel was engaged with the russians. so to the extent that he can help us shed light on that second component, that director james comey when he was director of the fbi was pursuing, that would really tell whether or not we would grant him immunity or not. >> what do you think mike flynn is hiding? do you think he is covering up for the president? we know he wasn't truthful in his back ground forms, we know he took money from russia without disclosing it. but what do you think sxengs who do you think he is protecting? >> well, that's the $800 million
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question, i guess. we do know that the president went out of his way to try to interfere with the investigation. he really wanted the investigation of mike flynn to come to a close. we know that mike flynn said he has a story to tell. you link those would together and i guess conspiracy theorist cosmetic suggest that there's something there. we don't know yet. and that's what we need to find out. >> thank you for being with us. we appreciate your time and we're grateful to have you. when we come back, we'll check in with the traveling white house.
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president trump is now in belgium for his first nato summit. i have a question for you, hans. today another transcript from another foreign leader called. this from philippine president duterte where donald trump said, reveal the location of nuclear submarines, something i'm told the pentagon isn't too thrilled about. how stressed out is the white house staff about this more unstructured part of his first overseas trip? >> reporter: they haven't said anything directly about the duterte call. this is a transcript that came out from the filipino side. this wasn't a leak from what steve bannon would call the deep state but these are secrets, the location of submarines. you'll remember with the uss vinson. the carrier to the east china
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sea. the saying around the pentagon at that point, this was when secretary mattis was doing a big trip, loose lips sink shipments. that's the view of the pentagon that you don't want to get this intel out there. clearly mr. trump felt that he could share with it a fellow president and that became public through their, shall we say, the philippines' lax understanding of how sensitive it was. >> how are allies preparing for their first series of meetings with our new president? >> they're really attentive to his body language and his commitment to challenges. we know he has challenges. with russia along the doorstep to the east and challenges with afghanistan. that is the only time article v has been triggered. so a lot of challenges with what nato has.
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what they want to hear from the president, does he believe in the alliance? we've heard it from mike pence. we've heard it from mattis. 28 members in total in nato including the u.s. the newer members really need to be assured. the germ ans, the french, less so. so of course they'll be breaking new ground and celebrating the new building. trump likes new buildings. there one came in over budget and a little more expensive. >> and they have reason to be nervous. i think the world will be watching how he responds to those questions. being careful not to overstretch on those. thank you or the our panel. thank you for joining us.
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"mtp daily" starts right now. >> nothing like the breaking news in the 4:00 to 5:00 hour. >> thank god. >> i don't know. we have plenty of news on a daily basis. >> i'll take what you don't want. can i go it back to 4:00. >> if it's wednesday, the new cbo score is out on the new repeal and replace plan and we've got the numbers. it's breaking lunking news. welcome to "mtp daily." russia is dominating politics but health care has been dominating battleground politics outside of washington. these two issues may be holding up everything for the white house and republicans in


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