tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC August 4, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PDT
the justice department cracking down on the leaking of classified information. claiming it's endangering our national security and threatening harsh punishments. but is it a move to apiece the president? making the case. robert mueller now using multiple grand juries to help gather information in the special counsel's investigation. is that a sign the russia probe is ratcheting up? and republican reinforcement. not one, but two pieces of bipartisan legislation to prevent president trump from firing the special counsel. are they sending a clear warning to the president who continues to call the russia probe a hoax? let's start with vacation for president trump. although none of the leak -- none for the leakers, his administration today say they are now doggedly pursuing, tripling the number of ongoing investigations into like investigations leakers and threatening anyone who gets caught. so as he heads for 17 hours of r & r later today, his attorney general, the guy he sometimes
treats like a punching bag, dutifully attacking his boss's number one enemy, those leakers. in fact, jeff sessions made sure to note near the top of the speech that he and the president are on the same page. >> first let me say that i strongly agree with the president, and condemn in the strongest terms the staggering number of leaks undermining the ability of our government to protect this country. >> of course, you cannot mention the words "leaks" and "national security" without mention what is often being leaked, namely damaging information about the ongoing russia information. we're going to cover that in depth in a few moments. first let's go to our reporters and analysts on the white house war on leaks. we start with nbc's allhallie jackson. tell us about this -- i guess you would call it an aggressive
stance, at least verbally, in the wake of thursday's "washington post" scoop, the transcripts with the two world leaders in january. >> reporter: also by the numbers. one of the things we heard from the attorney general, the doj going after triple the number of leak and leaked complaints than previously, indicative of this real crackdown they have been pushing against this type of thing. remember, as you well know, chris jansing, the obama administration tried to crack down on leaks, as well, and that was notable over the last eight years during his administration. and the trump administration, you are seeing this very aggressively. there's a couple of components to this. number one, you talk about the war on leaks. it's kind of a two-pronged war. one is the war on the leakers themselves. and that is why the doj is announcing it is creating a new counter intelligence unit, essentially, to go after that part of it. the other, frankly, is how the leaks get out, which is via the media, via the press, and jeff sessions is escalating the rhetoric there, as well, saying
they are reviewing the subpoena policy for department of justice. a very controversial move that the obama administration tried back in 2013, was problematic, obviously, for a lot of members of the media, and a little bit of a walk-back a couple years later. now a review of that policy. so a two-pronged war against leakers and the media. and the political playout, as well, chris. you've got this attorney general who has one-sidedly clashed, i guess, donald trump has hit jeff sessions. jeff sessions hasn't hit back, given that donald trump is his boss, and somebody that he backed during the campaign. but you had the president over the last couple of weeks being very explicit publicly, that he wanted his doj to crack down on this. message received. you have the doj doing exactly that, sessions aiming his remarks, it seemed at an audience of one. remember, this was reporters in the room, there was a chance -- there was the thinking that the reporters would have a chance to ask questions about this new policy, to ask questions of the attorney general. that was not the case.
jeff sessions delivered that message, walked out, and it was a message that was aimed at this building behind me, chris. he had to say -- go ahead. >> we were on the same wave length. i was going to say, let's listen to a little more of what jeff sessions had to say, my friend. >> criminals who would illegally use their access to our most sensitive information to endanger our national security are, in fact, being investigated and will be prosecuted. this nation must end this culture of leaks. we will investigate and seek to bring criminals to justice. we will not allow rogue, anonymous sources with security clearances to sell out our country. >> reporter: and, chris, those strong words there from jeff sessions. >> hallie jackson, thank you for that. i want to bring in my panel now. our analyst, kayla mason, former federal prosecutor, michael allen previously served as staff director for the house intelligence committee and in a
number of national security roles in george w. bush's administration, and dana milbank, opinion writer for the "washington post." i'm glad to have all of you here. they paint a scary picture, talking about the national security, they talk about that this is damaging the american people. is it as scary as it sounds? >> i think so. we cannot operate a national security system in which we give our playbook over to the enemy. we spend $80 billion getting this information. it's the lifeblood of national security decision-making. the president and his cabinet need it in order to find out what putin is going to do next or what the chinese may do vis-a-vis north korea. so we have to protect these very frarjs very hard to get intelligence accesses. and the way they come out for political purposes is damaging to the country. i get that a lot of people have got concerns about donald trump. i really do. but i don't think people should
arrogate on to themselves this responsibility when it really hurts the country. >> kayla, we have heard before, there was going to be crackdown on leakers, and there have been concerns that have been expressed about, you know, the damage it can do to the country. having said that, i wonder why we didn't get, for example, some real-life examples. i wonder why they didn't take questions. what was your sense after what you heard? >> well, if the doj is suggesting, or the attorney general is suggesting that he is going to use the department's law enforcement investigatory and prosecutorial capabilities to sort of instill discipline in the unruly gossiping white house staff, i think that would be inappropriate and problematic and probably would exceed the reach of the laws that are available for prosecuting -- disclosures of classified information. >> so what qualifies as unruly and gossipy, as opposed to
something that really is a threat? >> right. well, the distinction in law is going to be between the disclosure of information that is classified, that's national security information. versus other types of information that are leaked to the media. and, in fact, in the latter category -- and, i mean, the most obvious example is all of the stuff that anthony scaramucci is so upset about. who the president is having dinner with. who yelled at who. did the president wear his bath robe at night. how much tv does he watch. that sort of leaking is not only not criminal, it's protected by federal whistleblower protection law. so i think i would want clarification, you know, if we were asking questions at the attorney general's press conference, of what exactly these new leak investigations are targeting. because there certainly have been troubling and potential criminal leaks of classified information, absolutely. and those have always been a doj
priority. if his suggestion is now there is also going to be a focus on this sort of palace intrigue type of gossip leaks, of which we have seen so many over the past two months, that, i think, would be new and, you know, potentially troubling, as a use of criminal justice resources. >> yeah, i think it's important to point out, not all leaks, i guess we should say, are the same, right? and they don't all have the same impact, so we can't paint them with a broad brush. this news conference comes ten days after president trump had this to say in the rose garden. >> i want the attorney general to be much tougher on the leaks from intelligence agencies, which are leaking like rarely have they ever leaked before. >> and some of these leaks, dana, are embarrassing to him. having said that, nobody said what is also true. good things sometimes come out of leaks. we have learned things about our government, we have learned things about our country that we needed to know as american citizens that only came, and
there was a passing mention of whistleblower laws. they did just at least mention that today. but how much of this is a national security problem? is there anything really new here, and how much of this is saying to the boss, we got this? >> look, president trump would like there to be no leaks that are damaging to him. but if you're going to go start criminalizing salacious leaks to come out of the white house, they would have to put bars up on all of the windows and keep everybody inside, because most of the leaks are coming right out of that building. but you do have to categorize on the one hand, there is wikileaks, where somebody literally steals information from our government, gives it to a hostile foreign power, or what not. and it's out there for everybody to see, revealing sources and methods. i think we can all agree, or most of us can agree, that that's not acceptable, and that is compromising the government. now, when somebody leaks something to the "new york times" or the "washington post," very often in the case of our newspapers, they'll say, is there something dpromsicompromi
national security here, and often they will hold a piece or omit information. so there are definitely gradations and characters here. >> because there seems to be a clear message here to the media. >> he's trying to intimidate leakers and the recipients. the more noise they make about it, the more leaks that are coming out. >> you know, one of the most recent leaks, obviously, this leak of the transcripts of the phone calls that the president made. i want to read some of the democratic reactions. senator mark warner of virginia, saying that he thinks it was disgraceful that it came out. and even david axelrod, chief strategist for president obama, said the transcripts of president trump's calls with mexico and austria were embarrassing, yet the leaking of them feels like a terrible precedent. and the former nsc spokesman for obama said, i would have lost my mind -- would have lost my mind if obama's conversations with foreign leaders leaked. he wouldn't have sounded so dumb, he added.
but it's still absurd. >> right. >> are these the kinds of things that are potentially damaging? how do you separate what's truly damaging, going back to not all leaks being created equal? >> let me agree with kayla. everything that the mooch said last week to "the new yorker" is not a leak of classified information. >> and, in fact, none of it was classified. >> none of it was even close to classified. >> or correct. >> or -- well, there's that. now you're getting into the details here. >> there's nothing the attorney general can do about that. that's an internal white house staff issue that the new chief of staff will have to deal with. but at the same time, look, the president and other foreign leaders have an expectation of privacy, so to speak, when they have a conversation. they need to be able to discuss matters of state without others in the bureaucracy leaking the transcripts. sometimes it contains classified information. it's certainly a window into the intentions of the leaders who
were speaking. and so this is a dangerous practice and really should not be tolerated. >> kayla, how are they going to do this now? how are they going to follow up? are they going to do things differently than before? what's your sense of how they handle this? >> well, it certainly sounded from the reference to an impending review of doj policies on subpoenaing journalists that what attorney general sessions is contemplating is a more aggressive use of subpoena power to try to compel testimony from journalists about their sources. that is a very interesting development, as well. because as your viewers may know, in most states, there is some sort of shield law or case law preventing the government from compelling journalists to reveal sources. there is no such law at the federal level. there is no such case law from the supreme court. so the current state of federal
law and federal constitutional law is that the government can do this. and we remember in the scooter libby investigation, judith miller from the "new york times" actually spent about three months in jail for refusing to give up sources. so if that's something that the doj wants to really aggressively try and pursue, i mean, they can. i think the costs would be in public opinion, and certainly political costs in congress. one result might be that congress will finally pass a federal journalists' shield law, which has been proposed many times over the past few years and has never quite made it into law. but if the government starts cracking down and really trying to go after journalists, we might see that. >> yeah. and we could also see a standoff in that case, dana. look. everybody knows the members of this administration have been leaking. they have been leaking about each other like crazy. the latest target seems to be the national security adviser, hr mcmaster. the daily caller has some unfriendly quotes in there from two former nsc aides, and no
coincidentally, mcmaster cleaning house at the ncs. the "new york times" maggi haberman tweeted last night, sustained attack has been in effect against mcmaster for the last two days. he has said rice did nothing wrong, plus fired a key bannan ally. i guess the question becomes when you're looking at the difference between leaks against each other, leaks aimed not necessarily as a national security threat, but i guess they are a destabilizing force within the white house. is it enough, what we just heard? is it going to have a chilling effect, will we have to wait and see if they start prosecuting people very publicly? >> certainly what's coming out of the white house won't change. that's just a creation that the president himself made by having all of these rival power centers. you set that environment up. of course, people are going to leak and spread rumors about each other. they're hoping the presidencies it on television or reads it in the paper so they can score points that way. so that's going to continue regardless. and people who are critical of national security leaks, and a line does have to be drawn, you
have to recognize, we wouldn't have a special prosecutor today. robert mueller wouldn't be on the job if not for leaks to -- proper leaks, i would say, to journalists. >> michael, we're just about out of time. in fact, we are out of time. but can this be effective? >> i think this is -- profoundly destabilizing. it's not criminal. but to have former members of the white house staff leaking against their former boss is unacceptable behavior. and it was probably part of the reason they got fired. >> michael allen, thank you so much. dana milbank, always good to see you. dana mason, stick with me. much more to talk about with the grand juries and the russia probe. what it means for the meddling in the election. and congressman adam schiff leading the house intelligence committee investigation weighed in on late night with seth myers last night. >> the fact that he has reportedly gone to a grand jury means he now needs the power of compulsion to get documents to compel witnesses to testify.
that is a necessary step to move forward, to a potential prosecution. doesn't mean that he will prosecute. but this is part of the investigation, very much moving forward. ♪ you're gonna have dizziness, nausea, and sweaty eyelids. ♪ ♪ and in certain cases chronic flatulence. ♪ no ♪ sooooo gassy girl. so gassy. if you're boyz ii men, you make anything sound good. it's what you do. if you want to save 15% percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. next! ♪ next!
>> president trump again dismissing the russia investigation, calling it a fake, and mocking investigators. let's bring in nbc news investigations reporter tom winter, robert ray, an independent council for the white water investigation during the clinton administration. and back with us, michael allen, managing director at beacon global strategies and a former special assistant to president georgia w. bush. good to have all of you. so tom, there's been a lot of reporting around this story. what has nbc news learned about robert mueller using multiple grand juries? >> so chris, this is what we know. we know that robert mueller is using a grand jury in washington, d.c., for part of this investigation. >> and we didn't know that before, correct? >> that is the one piece of new information today. what we did know before, and this was before robert mueller was even appointed, that grand juries in alexandra, virginia, which is the eastern district of virginia, and grand juries in other parts of the country were
hearing some evidence, more likely they were actually processing records requests and processing subpoenas for information tied to michael flynn and paul manafort. so that was going on before robert mueller was even involved. before he was named as a special prosecutor. but we know today is he's now also using a grand jury in washington, d.c. and to be clear, this is not a special grand jury. this is not one that he has specifically, you know, come forward and asked for and put into place. this is one that is sitting and yesterday they may have heard information about a drug case. tomorrow they may hear information tied to the russia investigation. but they're a grand jury that is sitting and is available for prosecutors all of the time. >> so why, then, robert, would there be a d.c. calling in people from the d.c. grand jury and not just use the people in virginia? what does this signal to you? >> it may not be any more
complicated than the fact that the sorts of things the special counsel is looking at could only be venued in the district of columbia. >> what does that mean? >> if an individual made false statements or allegedly made false statements to the fbi, and that individual was located in the district of columbia, somewhere in the vicinity of the white house when those statements were made, that case can only be prosecuted in the location where the statements were taken. so that would be in a particular example. if it was done in the district of columbia, it wouldn't help much to have a grand jury sitting in the eastern district of virginia to prosecute that case. that case would expected to be prosecuted in the district of columbia. >> so does it signal to you in any way who might be involved as a target of this investigation? >> no. because you don't know enough. you have to know a lot more information to try to figure all of that out. and any attempt to do so at this point seems to me to be not much better than speculation.
>> michael, one of the things i thought when it seemed that it might be a special grand jury, which, again, we have now -- nbc news has found out that it's not, is, well, that would say to me, they need somebody -- or a group of people specifically dedicate today it. this this is so complex, they have so many different issues they have to cover, they can't have it in a grand jury that may have all of these other cases going on at the same time. that does not appear to be the case. but what does it signal to you that now there is somebody in d.c.? >> in general, as everyone has said, this is a standard prosecutorial tool, that is on the path of every investigation. let me go from least likely to more likely. least likely, at this stage -- at the very beginning, is that robert mueller has probable cause on somebody to issue an indictment. i think it's too early for that. i think what it does show, though, is the investigation is proceeding a pace, and they're using the tools of the grand
jury, probably to issue subpoenas, as was reported, but also maybe to compel the production of documents. that's moving forward, and mueller is moving down the path. >> and we also have the former justice department official that's been reported, greg andre, joining robert mueller's team, specializes in white collar crime, once managed a fraud unit, headed a program for foreign bribery, on mueller's team. so what does that signal to you? does it signal they're following the money? >> it could be. but it also is just a reflection of the fact that if you're going to staff an investigation, you would want investigators and prosecutors who have white collar experience or public corruption experience in order to appropriately review the evidence in this case and this investigation. i'm not sure i would make much more of it than that. the more significant thing is
that staffing up an investigation with 16 lawyers at this point and particularly by hiring people outside of the justice department, it suggests that this investigation will go on for several months, and well into 2018. and the fact that a grand jury will ultimately come to hear live witness testimony, either through a special grand jury, or through the use of the ordinary processes and grand juries that are available to the government and the district of columbia also is consistent with the notion that we should expect the investigation to continue on, you know, well beyond 30, 60 or 90 days. but definitely into next year. >> everything that he says, michael, arguing against what we have heard repeatedly from the president, including last night that this russia investigation is a fake, this russia investigation is a hoax. if you were his lawyer, would you tell him to at least back off of that? >> i would. i think the most prudent thing is for him to be quiet and go about the business of american
people, as bill clinton liked to say so frequently during the ken starr investigation. instead, i think he's taking a page out of the clinton playbook and trying to delegitimize the investigation. but i don't think it's going to work this time. clinton was effective in saying it's just about sex, it's lying about sex. here russia messing with our election, i don't think he's going to have a lot of success delegitimizing bob mueller on this topic. so i would definitely try and stay about the business of the american people, rather than delegitimize the investigation. >> yeah, and try delegitimizing bob mueller on any topic, be one of the most respected people in this city. thanks to all of you. president trump blasts democrats and hillary clinton, alleging collusion between russia and his campaign are a total fabrication. are his die-hard supporters buying it? and unfinished business. it was an epic failure for republicans when it came to passing health care. so does it look like congress will get anything done?
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switching over to the gop. it was a perfect jumping-off point for president trump, whose speech in that state last night went after democrats, but the ongoing russia investigation was never far from his mind. >> the reason why democrats only talk about the totally made-up russia story is because they have no message, no agenda, and no vision. >> i want to bring in msnbc political analyst, joel benenson, senior adviser to the hillary clinton campaign. joel, no agenda, no vision. he's talking about your people. >> yeah, well, i think we do have an agenda and a vision. for example, the reason he was handed a major defeat in not being able to get any repeal of health care was because we stood up for the american people, and talked about who had been helped by a health care bill that was passed seven years ago. and found that republicans and
democrats across this country were up in arms over their attempt to rip it away from them. >> is there a -- >> i think it's clear there is one party -- sorry, go ahead, chris. >> it made people nervous. there's no doubt people were nervous about changes to health care. and that's not unusual whenever we have seen people try to cut back on things that have become part of sort of the fabric of american society, these entitlements. having said that, what's the clear message the democrats have out there? >> i think the clear message that democrats have out there is that we are and we always have been the party of working people. we're the party that is fighting for increases in wages through the minimum wage. through paid family leave policies that allow families where we now have more households with two parents, two people working than ever before. can take care of their families at home and be good employees. we are against tax policies that are unfair to working people, which is what donald trump and the republicans are proposing again. they want a massive give-away to
corporate america at a time when corporate profits are at record highs, and wages are barely budging. the american people need a raise. corporations don't need another massive tax cut. we saw what that did during the bush administration. >> jennifer, i think we just heard a little preview of what we're going to hear on the campaign trail from some of the people running for congress. having said that, the president's popularity is at 33% in that quinnipiac poll. it also found that majorities are embarrassed to have him as president. they say he's not honest, they say he's not level-headed. you campaign that with some of this messaging that we're starting to hear from the democrats, and should the republicans be nervous? >> absolutely. i think there's a very good chance that the house switches to democratic control. and i would say in kind of a bizarre way, the very good jobs numbers put a crimp in his agenda. what's the argument for big tax cuts for the rich? this i agree with joel. maybe the middle class needs a tax break, and maybe we could use some tax simplification, particularly in the corporate
code. but what's the justification for giving billionaires and millionaires who have done fairly well throughout this economy another tax cut? what's going to be the justification for that? and i think if they pursue that, they're going to play right into joel's and his friends' wheelhouse, and they're really going to hait on him. >> that will be fascinating to see when they come back. in the meantime, we had one bit of bipartisan agreement. north carolina republican senator thom tillis supporting that bill to protect the special counsel from being fired. also seeking bipartisan support. and here's what chris coons, a democrat, said this morning on "morning joe." >> thom tillis came across the floor of the senate and said i really want to legislate on this, and i want to do it today. it was a striking moment for me. we have all gotten used to the idea that there is a number of republican senators who are standing up to the president. >> joel, do you think that it's -- i'll let you say what you think it is, that the one thing that we seem to get out of
this congress, not health care, not infrastructure, not tax reform, not any clear thing about how we're going to deal with the debt ceiling, but we're going to stop our president from hurting himself? >> well, i don't know if that's the only thing. and i think the reason for this bipartisanship here is because you've got people on both sides of the aisle in congress, in the senate, in the house, who think that what happened with russia meddling in our election is a serious threat to our democracy. and what we get from the white house, and you see from the white house and the president, is, you know, constant whining, constant belly aching, trying to delegitimize this investigation, and the press that's covering it. i think they're right to be concerned on both sides of the aisle. and i think most of those folks are there because they respect the institutions of our democracy. i don't think we can say the same thing about president trump. he demeans them and diminishes them every day. >> jennifer, we are seeing that
they -- they're going to crack down, they say, not just on anybody who leaks, but the -- potentially the media when they get it. rod rosenstein, investigating classified leaks to news organizations. what do you make of that? >> well, i think the announcement came as a bone to the president. i think jeff sessions did this because he doesn't speak directly to the president any more. and he wanted to get a few brownie points. if you recall, the president was complaining about this at a press conference with the leader of lebanon about a week or so ago. >> so you saw this as more show than anything else. >> i did. but i think they are serious. and it troubles me greatly if they are going to go back and revisit the very carefully negotiated rules of the road that the obama administration developed in conjunction with both national security experts and the media. and they came to some agreements about the sorts of avenues they
would pursue, the reporters here are not the problem. the problem in the true national security area is people in their own administration. if they go back to that, and they're going to start subpoenaing reporters to reveal witnesses to reveal sources, there is going to be a blowup with this administration. and i think there's going to be a movement then on capitol hill. there should be, anyway, to move ahead with shield law legislation so that this doesn't happen. >> joel, i want to ask you about that, quickly, too. we're out of time. but you've been on both ends of leaks. some that have helped and others that have hurt you. when you talk about classified leaks and what clearly was the message here to the media today, what do you make of it? >> people who leak classified information are violating the law. that is not and shouldn't be ever construed as an excuse to go and pursue journalists who receive that information. that's what the first amendment protects, that's the constitution. as jennifer said, there have also been agreements along the way when incidents have happened to protect journalists from
that. they're doing their jobs. people who are inside the administration, inside the government, leaking classified information, are breaking the law. they're not doing their job. >> joel benenson, always good to see you. jennifer reuben, thank you so much. and president trump was steaming after lawmakers scattered for their summer recess with no big legislative achievements under their belt. is the president only making it more difficult, though, for lawmakers to get anything done? and trump on the road. touting his efforts to revitalize the coal industry. >> i love our coal miners, and they're coming back strong. >> we'll hear from one champion. of the coal resurgence. (vo) dogs have evolved,
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we call them our team. congress and the president going their separate ways for the august recess. before the exodus, our kasie hunt caught up with lawmakers to ask one simple question. >> reporter: do you think that president trump is honest? there have been questions about his phone calls with the boy scouts and with others. >> you know, i don't -- i know you all like talking about whether or not he actually received the phone call. i'm not going down that road. most people don't think he's honest, if you believe this poll. he's gotten an image problem he needs to deal with. >> reporter: do you think the president is an honest man? >> yes, i do. i think he has a good time sometimes. but i think basically on very important issues, he's very honest. >> reporter: do you think the president is an honest man? >> yes. >> reporter: is that a no? or a yes?
>> i'm not going to play the game. >> reporter: one question. please? >> not right now. >> reporter: i just want to know if you think the president is an honest man. it's my one question. >> i'll catch up. >> reporter: do you think the president is an honest man? >> i think it's hard to build the confidence that we need to with so many contradictions recorded. so you have to be a little bit more careful how they're saying things. >> reporter: joining us now, nbc news national political reporter, cara lee and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. i don't know that it's ever good when you ask someone do you think so-and-so is honest and they say, "um" before saying yes. having said that, the polls have been terrible, including the ones that were referenced there that show that most of the american people think that this president is not honest. but jeremy, he does seem, and if you watched it last night with his hardest heart of the base, which is in west virginia, and some of the relationships he has on the right, the president does seem to be holding on to one
part of his support. >> he's holding on. and there are a few reasons for that. i think one is, where else are they going to go? they -- run away from him. okay, that's one thing. but they need something to run to. and they don't have that right now. donald trump is it. and donald trump has been incredibly effective throughout the course of his campaign and now throughout the course of his presidency at finding villains. right now that villain is the russian investigation and bob mueller. during the campaign it was hillary clinton. it's still hillary clinton and her 33,000 e-mails, if you listen to trump's speech last night. but he's very good at deflecting and misdirecting. and, you know, that's of no minor consequence to his base. look at the cheers last night. "lock her up, lock her up." there's no sign they're breaking from him. >> yeah. and carol, you could have -- he could have given his speech, what, like, a month ago. he could have given exactly the same speech. a lot of the parts of the speech were things we have heard over and over again, whether it was during the campaign or with the russia investigation, and the
appearances he has made lately. but what has he accomplished? what's the strategy there, preaching to the converted? >> well, that's the big question. and that's the challenge going forward. the president has seen his support erode, but as you guys were talking about, he has maintained this base. but how long they're going to stick with him is really in question. particularly if he doesn't make good on a lot of the promises he's made. he's now had six months, and he has not accomplished health care, tax reform, infrastructure. and this is, you know, during a time when congress was not distracted with other sorts of crises, when they come back, and when the president comes back from his vacation, he's going to be facing a congress that is dealing with a -- having to raise the debt limit, which is highly controversial and difficult to get support for within the party. and will probably require some democratic support. and he's going to -- they're going to have to pass spending bills. these are must-dos, and they haven't had to deal with that
yet in a similar way. so in order to do those things and move his agenda is going to be really difficult. and if he can't, he really risks eroding the support that he has among that base. >> yeah, the other thing that struck me as i was listening to this last night, jeremy, and i don't know what i expected from a new chief of staff that suddenly the messaging would totally change. but i wonder if this is about -- he can say those kinds of things without getting into too much trouble. it makes him feel good. he believes it strongly. he gets the affirmation of the crowd. we have to let him have that, and we'll worry about some other more serious stuff and trying to change the behavior there. >> yeah, exactly. he's a creature of his own comforts. and one of those comforts is going to rallies where he's surrounded by thousands of adoring fans. >> and relitigating the election. >> and reminding people of his electoral victory. and, you know, it's -- the question -- >> which, by the way, was not -- i can't remember exact phrase -- the greatest victory ever, which we should point out, it wasn't
even close. >> but the question that carol raises about getting things done, promises kept. there's a reason trump travels the country with a banner behind him that says "promises made, promises kept." because he and his advisers know that once -- if it ever gets to the point where his base believes that donald trump is not draining the swamp and doing what he said he would do, like building that wall, for example, that there's going to start to be some bleeding there in the base. but look at his -- the percentage of voters who identify as conservatives who are supporting president trump still, think he's doing a good job still. that number has not moved since inauguration day. >> and the thing, carol, is that if he's going to get some of these things done, that he says he is still going to do, he's going to need congress. one way or another, he can continue to go after them, he can continue to insult them. but they are going to have to vote for these things. where do you see there being any kind of meeting of the minds when they get back? it was interesting just listening to jennifer reuben,
who was saying it's going to be hard for the president to make the argument, when you look at the jobs numbers today, which were good. but when you have that unemployment rate going down, to continue to argue for the rich getting the big tax breaks to create jobs when the economy is already creating jobs. >> yeah, it's really unclear where -- how he's going to thread the needle with congress. because what we have seen recently is big divides within the republican party. so that hurts his agenda. democrats are not going to help him on things like health care. particularly the way the repeal and then replace aspect of health care. and there are all these other things that -- we have seen that republicans are starting to challenge him a little bit on, because they don't trust the president on things like rths russia. they got together and passed the sanctions against russia, because they didn't believe that -- trust that the president wasn't going to roll back those sanctions. we have seen republican support for trying to stop the president from being able to fire the
special counsel. and so he's entering into this fall -- or he has a moment that's very different from the moment that he entered into after his inauguration, where republican resistance is a little bit stronger than it was then. and so it's not clear how he'll thread the needle to get his agenda finished. >> carol lee, jeremy peters, good to see both of you. and president trump is getting a lot of blow back for pulling out of the paris climate agreement a couple of months ago. but some folks were thrilled with the decision. we're going to hear from the ceo of a pennsylvania coal mine who says it's helping spark a renaissance in the mining industry. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette.
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experienced a coal mining come back of sorts. that is the carbon cutting agreement that they agreed on, and he talks about the coal industry all of the time. so the first new mine in three years, the costa mine and it is run by costa coal. and we had the talk with the ceo and he said the coal industry is making a tremendous difference. >>. >> does pulling out of the paris agreement help or hurt your industry. . >> beyond the perception,
tonight we will take a look at reality on asunment. far more than any other regulation. what is hurting the industry is the cheap price of natural gas. thermal coal is coal used to make power. most of that coal is going to go overseas and that is just one of the things you will learn tonight on trump versus the world. >> thank you, we appreciate it, we'll look for that tonight. catch the full report tonight on msnbc and we'll be right back. it is your business of the week. baseball may never be the same.
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that wraps up this episode of msnbc live. this hour on msnbc, crack down, yesterday the president's phone conversations with two foreign leaders made public. today the department of justice is putting washington on notice. >> i have this mess an for our friends in the department of justice. we are open for business and i have a warning for would be leakers, don't do it. >> if you improperly disclose classified information, we will find you. we will investigate you, we will
prosecute you to the full essex tent of the law -- extent of the law. robert mueller's investigation is growing in scope. the "new york times" subpoenas have been issued. our word of the day today is two words, grand jury. >> we know today he is using a grand jury in washington dc. >> the investigation is proceeding a pace and they're using the tools of the grand jury, probably to issue subpoenas as was reported, but also maybe to compel the production of documents.
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