Skip to main content

tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  August 5, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

4:00 pm
people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ tonight -- >> are there any russians here tonight? >> the counter offensive begins. >> they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story. >> tonight, new details on the mueller investigation. as the white house attacks leakers and the president and his allies undercut the special prosecutor. >> i think mr. mueller is hurting his reputation. >> maxine waters. joining me for latest. >> we would certainly object. >> what we know about
4:01 pm
investigators following trump's money and about those transcripts. >> what is this thing with boats? why do you discriminate against boats. >> what we're learning from president trump and his private talks with world leaders. >> who will pay for the wall? >>" all in" begins right now. >> good evening from new york i'm with robert mueller now issuing grand jury speebs, tonight the president and his alleys are mountaining a multifaceted counter attack, suggesting it doesn't matter what mueller finds because his investigation is a fundamentally ill legitimate attempt by the points to overturn the will of the people. >> they can't beat us at the voting booths. so they're trying to cheat you out of the future and the future that you want. they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want. with a fake story that is demeaning to all of us.
4:02 pm
>> that they are out to destroy the president in part through leaks in the media. >> all of this is the deep state. the deep state real. it is a massive bureaucracy and they see donald trump as their mortal enemy. >> amid the daily drip of damaging news, the president has been pressing his attorney general, jeff sessions, the same jeff sessions the president has accused of recusing himself to go after the leakers. and today he did just. that saying they had tripled the number of investigations involving illegal disclosures. >> we will investigate and seek to bring criminals to justice. we will not allow rogue, anonymous sources with security clearances to sell out our country. >> notably, he is also talking about going after hillary clinton. he hasn't gone there yet.
4:03 pm
a group republicans last week called for a second special counsel to investigate james comey and loretta lynch and calling for a separate grand jury to investigate clinton as well. last night he said he's not the one with the real russia problem. >> what the prosecutors should be looking at hillary clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mails. and they should be looking at the paid russian speeches. and the owned russian companies. or let them look at the uranium she sold that is now in the hands of very angry russians. >> that last part is not true. she didn't sell any uranium. also under attack is mueller, a republican who enjoys a sterling reputation among republicans and who is appointed to be fbi director by george w. bush.
4:04 pm
despite that, they are casting the investigation as hopelessly compromised. >> mueller has put together a democratic hit squad that has donated tens of thousands to let's see, democrats, including hillary clinton and barack obama. >> the wikileaks julian assange is calling him a dirty cop. and trent franks said he must resign over conflicts of interest. last night one fox news guest even argued against the concept of grand juries which are enshrined in the constitution. >> there's only one other country in the world that employs a grand jury, it is liberia. there's a reason why. everybody now realize that's grand juries are an undemocratic farce. >> the heart of the argument is this. the president of the target the investigation, an attack be just on the president but the people who put him into office who should rise up.
4:05 pm
if and when the indictments start rolling in. >> if they end up with an indictment against a family member just to, you know, to get at donald trump when they couldn't get at him, there will be a real uprising in this country. >> joining me now, maxine waters. good to have you here. >> delighted to be here with you. >> ken starr said something. he said you don't want prosecutors going on a fishing expedition and then a lot of democrats laughed at that. he went to a land deal called whitewater and then on monica lewinsky. isn't it true what he is saying in some respects, that it could get out the hand if a prosecutor starts looking and ends up looking at something they didn't go after? >> we all know that he is looking at the possibility of collusion and obstruction of justice. when you're doing those kinds of investigations, it is going to
4:06 pm
take you into some other areas and those areas could be very problematic. they could be criminal. and so if that happens, then he has a responsibility to follow up on it. it is not a fishing expedition. >> wasn't that the argument they people made in defense of ken starr. you started on one thing and now we're here from monica lewinsky because you couldn't get them on whitewater and on vince foster. if they end up with something and say past business practices. >> the fact is, if given all this information that something is wrong, that the president of the united states is out of bounds, he's committed certain crimes, they can make the decision to impeach. the final analysis is with us to determine whether or not the information we're receiving, whether it is
4:07 pm
dealing with obstruction of justice. or we find there is money laundering or crimes because of the business arrangements. we have a responsibility to make a determination about whether or not he should be impeached. >> what do you think about the idea that mueller is conflicted some that people he's hired are giving money to democrats. do you think he's compromised? >> no. he has a sterling reputation. not only does he have a sterling reputation, of democrats and republicans believe if anyone would do this investigation, it's him. not only is he smart and has he done good work in the past -- >> so you trust him. >> i do. we think he is staffing up the right way to. with the expertise to help bring about the truth to all that's being looked at. >> are you confident that reputation will hold? one of the things we've seen, the president is able to convince a sizable chunk of the
4:08 pm
country and people in the party to zig if the other side says zag. do you think if it comes to a showdown with mueller, that reputation hold as mong republicans? >> mueller is going to win. >> you seem very confident. >> i do. but don't forget, i've made some predictions in the % past and i've talked about some relationships in the past. and i have talked about my suspicions in the past. and i want to tell you drip by drip, people are finding out that there's more to this than maybe some people thought. and of course, there's a lot of smoke. and even now people are believing there's some fire. so i think that not only is mueller the correct one. no. he is not conflicted. they'll put their team together the right-wingers, and they'll roll out every day with a new accusation but it won't hold. >> some republicans on the other
4:09 pm
special panel for hillary clinton, what would it mean constitutionally if conscience or the department of justice were to take that step at the president's command? >> well, it won't happen to begin with. they've investigated hillary clinton and they've investigated hillary clinton. they've investigated hillary clinton and she has shown that she can stand there, sit there, and give them the information, answer all the questions, debunk all their theories, and she's won. so enough is enough. and they can't go there. >> alan dershowitz, he's emerged as a defender of the president. he had something to say about the citing of the grand jury in washington, d.c. today. he is talking about where the grand jury is located. take a listen. >> the second one is important because of where it is. it gives the prosecutor the
4:10 pm
power to indict in the district of columbia which is a district that's heavily democratic and a jury pool very unfavorable to the trump administration. so it gives the prosecutor a tremendous tactical advantage. >> he went to talk about the ethnic and racial district as stacked against donald trump. do you think it is unfair. >> i think absolutely unfair. he is saying, all those black people are there and they don't like trump. so he won't get a fair trial. so they should take it out of that jurisdiction. it shouldn't be there to begin with. i don't like that. i'm surprised that alan dershowitz is talking like that. we will push back against that. because that is racist. >> colleen waters, thank you for being here. >> delighted. thank you. joining me now, from the daily beast, you had sources in
4:11 pm
the white house. what is the mood there and what are they thinking of as it becomes clearer and clearer. there is a very real thing happening with serious subpoena power. >> absolutely. but more than concerned about what will happen with regard to mueller and his legal team is what senior aides are worried about, what the president of the united states might do in the coming days and weeks as he reads more coverage regarding, and watches more on cable news, regarding what's going on. how furious he gets about it. this could have to do with his various flirtations with does he order the sacking of robert mueller as he has sort of flirted with in a "new york times" article, or does he set off a barrage of angry tweets about this that
4:12 pm
could easily be legally or politically complicated. >> so you made a great point. i want to get your response to, which is that we think of it as the president's defenders are rushing to his defense but it worked the other way around which is the president of the united states watches cable and fox news and he could sit there and watch them attack mueller and that is a thing that plants the idea in his head he should fire mueller which is a very real possibility, it would seem. >> i do think that is a real possibility. look, trump has proven himself to be something of a specialists in delivering self-inflicted blows and i think he watched cable television on, it's never more than a little bit removed from his hourly or five-minute consciousness. and he sees vocal defenders on cable news. and also people attack his enemies. that goes straight on the twitter feed.
4:13 pm
that was at the root of his attacks. attorney journal jeff sessions. and the real danger to the president right now is what he himself may do. i think the latest actions, the news of the impanelling of a grand jury show that bob mueller is deathly serious. what is not clear is how close this may come to the president himself. if he could impose some discipline on himself, he may not be touched by this at all. that's not clear yet. >> so is it your understanding there are folks in the white house trying to make sure he doesn't take steps like the ones you floated, so that he doesn't incur further legal jeopardy? >> yes. most importantly, first and foremost, they have been advising the president rather gently, but diligently, i should say, over the last few weeks and months, that ordering the firing of robert mueller would be a horrible course of action. in fact, there are bad words that i can't use on the air what
4:14 pm
they used to describe what would happen that would be politically catastrophic if he were to do so. but back to your earlier point about how angry the president gets when he sees this on loop, in the news, on tv, in terms of russia and trump-related news, mueller-related news, as politico and my publication, daily beast. the president will literally yell at his tv screen when he sees more and more russia-related news that he is displeased by. this is something that i don't think can be understated, how furious and aggrieved he can feel when this comes across his, whether it is his twitter feed or his cable news box. >> and alley anna, do you feel that the white house is taking a turn in how they approach this? the president forth rightly addressing it directly that it is illegitimate.
4:15 pm
i feel like i've seen that narrative take shape in a more aggressive fashion. do you feel the same way? >> you know, the rally in west virginia was really interesting this week. in a certain way, i think trump has been hammering home on the same point whether it is-related to the russia investigation or not, that the system rigged. and he is coming back to it on this russia investigation. where he is telling his supporters that they're out to find something. has the fake story and they're going to find something. they're trying to ill legitimize his victory. to steal it from him the president and his supporters. what struck me is that, i think a core segment of his supporters, even if it were shown or demonstrated clearly that trump was guilty of this, i don't think it would make any difference. what trump has suggested over and over again, however bad he is, he is a preferable alternative on hillary clinton. and i think many of his supporters believe that.
4:16 pm
and are simply immune to whatever might come out here. that's why you hear the raucous cheers. many polls show, most people do believe russia interfered in the election. and most people believe trump colluded in some hazy way. and a lot of the people simply don't care. they find him preferable to thealityive. >> and people may sort of change their views about the fakes rather than change their views about donald trump. thank you both for your time tonight. >> next, robert mueller vast legal team is crossing the president's self-imposed red line. the expanding investigation in how the president might respond after the two-minute break. for you. woah. flo and jamie here to see hqx. flo and jamie request entry. slovakia. triceratops. tapioca. racquetball.
4:17 pm
staccato. me llamo jamie. pumpernickel. pudding. employee: hey, guys! home quote explorer. it's home insurance made easy. password was "hey guys." it's home insurance made easy. and i've never seen a better time to refinance your home, than this summer. why? because right now we're seeing our average customer save $20,000. but with the fed already talking about raising rates, this window will not last for long. lendingtree is the only place to compare up to 5 real refinance offers against your current mortgage - for free. are you sure you have the best rate? take 3 minutes and find out right now. because at lendingtree, when banks compete, you win.
4:18 pm
there's supposed to be, to to russia interference with the election and whether they were working with the trump campaign. that was the general mandate
4:19 pm
here. so to look at a real estate deal from ten years ago, which is what some of the reports came out, i think from bloomberg or business insider or both, it would be way outside of the scope of the mandate and we would certainly object to that. >> ever since trump agreed that robert mueller's investigation would cross a red line if they looked at his finances, they have said that there's a limited purview in the investigation. but deposit attorney general rod rosenstein appointmenting mueller gave him to pursuit and i quote, any links or coordination between the russian individual and the campaign of donald trump and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation and any other matters within the scope of the law. there have in fact been headlines for two weeks that mueller's investigation is looking into the president's financial ties. and just as republicans appear ready to stop president trump from firing or directing anyone to fire special counsel mueller, there are now republicans willing to dismiss any possibility of the president
4:20 pm
drawing a red line. >> that i believe the special counsel has a very broad mandate. and he should follow the leads wherever they may be. the president can't set red lines for bob mueller. >> well said. >> joining me now, pulitzer prize winner, author of the making of donald trump. someone who spent a lot of time reporting on donald trump. and his finances in particular. my question is, do you think he has reason to fear mueller on that score? >> oh, i think he has tremendous reason to fear mueller on that score. remember that donald's principal bank is deutsch bank which has been fined over $600 million for laundering money for russian ogig arcs and there's a letter saying that he authorized a tax fraud. and donald owned 18% of the profits, ended up in an
4:21 pm
icelandic bank. under the thumb of a russian olig arc. he has a lot to worry about. >> let me ask you, this is someone in public life for many years and he's been the subject of a lot of attention. and he has run into problems with civil suits, he's been fined. but he never has had any criminal convictions. never been indicted over financial regularities. and there's something to be said for living in the spotlight that long and not bringing down the law upon you. right? >> well, yes. i once had the mob's number to a hit man in the western u.s. in my home and telling me about the people he killed chflt the fbi and local cops backed up his story. and harry was very proud of the fact that he had never been arrested for his crimes. many people who cheat and he swindle and steal as donald has done have never been arrested. that's not a measure of anything. >> what do you think about the idea of trip wires as they go along?
4:22 pm
it seems to me that it is going to be the case, they're going to start to look at the finances and start pulling on threads. and they're very complex finances, whether their all above board or not. that seems to be very established. they're very complex. right? >> yes. but the things that they'll be able to are transfers of money. the organization that does this, it is mostly the irs who does this. they are very good at finding financial needles in the haystack floating around and one they uncover a few keys and get people to cooperate, if there were illicit flows of money and money laundering and what amounted to payoffs, they will find those things and remember they are going to start with people on the outer edge, interview them in front of a grand jury, then perhaps then some with prosecution, and leverage them as they move toward the center.
4:23 pm
and donald is very worried that finally he has an investigation he can't compromise or run out the clock on, as he has done with numerous previous investigations of himself. >> that strikes me as important. you've reported other times he's had investigations looming over him and the steps he's taken to essentially make sure that they didn't get to him. and it does appear, do you feel like we're watching history repeat itself? >> here, i don't think he's going to be able to do what he's done in the past. either run out the clock, compromise the investigation, and go rat out other people. in this case he has a team of incredible people going after him. those 16 lawyers that have gone to work for bob mueller, they didn't leave their million-dollar jobs for a lark. they were persuaded by mueller. this is important historic work and you need to be on the team. >> david k. johnson, thanks for your time.
4:24 pm
thank you. coming up, an incredible look into how president trump operates when he thinks nobody is listening. more fallout from the transcripts and what the president's pleas tell us about how he views his own voters.
4:25 pm
so much of what we know has come from lesion in the press. why consider -- consider the case of michael flynn was forced out in february for failing to come clean about his conversations with the russia ambassador during the transition. in the early days of the will administration, after learning flynn had been lying about the conversations, then the acting attorney general alerted the white house counsel multiple times, going through proper channels to warn the administration.
4:26 pm
one of the top national officials might be vulnerable to russian blackmail and nothing happened. flynn remained on the job. it was not until weeks later after anonymous officials leaked to the "washington post" that flynn had in fact talked about sanctions, something flynn had denied the vice president had not told the truth about, the president finally asked his national security adviser to resign. for the president and defenders, the leaks are the real problem and attorney general jeff sessions is at least partly to blame. >> last week he attacked sessions, accusing him for taking a weak position in the hillary clinton climbs and intel leaks. so attorney the attorney general responded announcing a crackdown on leaks which could include severe repercussions for journalists. >> since january, the number has more than tripled the number of active leak investigations. the fbi has increased resources goh doo voted to
4:27 pm
leak sources and created a new counter intelligence unit the manage these cases. one of the things we are doing is reviewing policies affecting media subpoenas. we respect the important role that the press plays and we'll give them respectful but it is not unlimited. >> this comes a day after one of the most astounding and controversial leaks of the trump presidency so far. the transcripts of the president's calls with foreign leaders. coming up, next.
4:28 pm
4:29 pm
4:30 pm
we are stopping drugs from
4:31 pm
pouring into our country and poisoning our youth. we are cracking down strongly on sanctuary cities, and in order to stop the drugs, gangs, and traffickers, we are building a wall on the southern border. >> watching donald trump perform before a crowd in a campaign style in west virginia, you can't help but wonder what he is like behind closed doors as he carries out his presidential duties. is the public donald trump, the bomb baster persona, the same guy who shows up to to international summits and situation room briefings? we now have at least a partial answer to that question because have leaked transcripts of phone calls with the leader of mexico and australia shortly after his inauguration. they reveal the same donald trump we've come to know. braggadocious, and uncomprehending about even the basic points of policy. the president showed another side.
4:32 pm
displaying a striking cynic i about the promises he made to his voters and he that he was on the con. on border wall, he pressed the mexico president to get the story straight. quote, the fact is we are both in a little bit of a political bind because i have to have mexico pay for the wall. i have to. they're going to say who will pay for the wall? and we should both say we will boring it out. we'll work it out in the formula. the wall was the president's most central campaign pledge but listen to how he described it. believe it or not, this is the least important thing that we're talking about but politically, this might be the most important thing we talk about. i'm joining by contributing editor of the rolling stone. what did you make of that? >> it is hilarious. it shows donald trump in his unvarnished natural state. he is exactly the same person except with an extra layer of craven cynical self-interest. it was a fascinating read. >> he also has this, they're sending judges to chicago, new york, i won new hampshire
4:33 pm
because new hampshire is a drug-infested den. it is coming from the southern border. i would never call -- you wouldn't in a normal conversation, just a normal gracious person talk about a place like that. >> one of the things that is a constant repeat, is he constantly talked about where he won and why and by how much. and to be fair, in new hampshire, he did constantly talk about the drug problem. in his mind, this is what it sounds like when he doesn't have a crowd in front of him. america is a dump. that's why i won. >> and in the turnbull conversation, basically the u.s. has agreed to take a certain number of refugees and trump hates it because it is bad for his brand. and trump trying to explain the policy, he just doesn't get it. in a basic way, he doesn't understand what he's being told. >> turnbull is trying to help
4:34 pm
him out. he is saying, look, we can both come out looking good in this. you don't have to take anybody. all you have to do is say you're in the process. >> and then vet them. he said you could vet them. >> you could have none come in. and trump is like, it doesn't penetrate to the absolute inner center of his brain. it doesn't get that far. all he knows is it will look bad in the press. >> that his brand is the guy who turns away refugees. >> right. i'll look like a dope. if we have to do that. >> you wrote a piece saying there's no way to survive the trump white house. i wonder if you think, if there's a relationship between degree to which this is an individual really doesn't care about policy, he doesn't have any governing principle other than the brand of the candidate and the amount of insane back-biting and fighting we see in the white house. >> absolutely. it is like the academia, but in the case of trump, there is no organizing principle.
4:35 pm
people aren't fighting for any good reason. they're just fighting. and there's no, he is just sowing chaos and he's he basically bored. that's the governing principle. he changes his mind constantly. people fall in and out of favor at a rapid pace. and that is the only thing really going on in this white house. >> do you think he enjoys the drama? >> it is really interesting, priebus, when there was that whole back and forth between priebus and scaramucci, that he was sour on priebus because he didn't fight back. he was acting like a reality show producer. on the one hand, he's the president. he should want absolute quiet and a lack of distraction. and rancor coming out of white house. he wanted rancor coming out of white house which is so bizarre. >> we have reporting that it is not the transcripts that indicate similar themes. this is from the washington post on the debate over the afghanistan policy. a trump confidant
4:36 pm
saying i call the president the two-minute man. there is one that says chose christopher wray to be the fbi director because he basically got bored of the search. and the last person he talked to wanted it to be wray. >> we've had presidents before who have had short attention spans. they said rond reagan couldn't read anything and they had to make videos for him. but trump takes it to the extreme. >> tess the smartphone version of that. >> he is in the twitter era. a millisecond too long to pay attention. even in lay decisions like choosing the fbi director. >> how do you think it plays out? two schools of thought. people that are, opposing the president, are both happy but at the same time he is the individual who is the president of the united states. he has nuclear codes, et cetera. >> i think the problem is that the trump's personality is over
4:37 pm
mercurial and explosive, he won't ever be able to achieve true stability. this move with kelly -- in a moment of clarity he sees he has to impose discipline but inevitably he'll tire of kelly. there will be an upheaval and then we'll see an absolute repeat of all the craziness that happened. i think we'll see ever tighter. >> and just as a factual note, the president won the primary in new hampshire but not the general. matt, thank you very much. still ahead, president trump's director of strategic communication explains what the president meant when he called the white house a real dump. and an update from pharma bro. that is next. ♪
4:38 pm
tired of wrestling with seemingly impossible cleaning tasks? using wipes in the kitchen, and sprays in the bathroom can be ineffective. try mr. clean magic eraser. simply add water, and use in your kitchen for burnt on food, in your bathroom to remove soap scum,
4:39 pm
and on walls to remove scuffs and marks. it erases 4x more permanent marker per swipe. for an effective, multi-surface clean, use mr. clean magic eraser. brand power. helping you buy better. is everything ok?adt, i could hear crackling in the walls, and my mind went totally blank. all i remember saying was, "my boyfriend's beating me" and she took it from there. when a fire is going on, you're running around, you're not thinking clearly, so they called the fire department for us. and all of this occurred in four minutes or less. within five minutes. i am absolutely grateful we all made it out safely. it's kind of one of those things you can't even... you cant even thank somebody. people you don't know actually care about you.
4:40 pm
to protect what you love, call 1-800-adt-cares thing one tonight. martin shkreli was found guilty of fraud today. he was convicted of eight
4:41 pm
charges to two hedge funds he founded and is facing prison. he earned the title of most hated man in america two years ago when he bought a drug critical for hiv treatments and immediately raised the price by 500%. they basked in the public attention and publicly boosting about his profits and how many date solicitations he received. it was problematic for his legal team who struggled to find jurors who weren't already biased against him and at a press conference, his lawyer addressed his client's reputation. >> there is an image issue that martin and i will be discussing in the next several days. martin is a brilliant young man, but sometimes people skills don't translate well. so we will have some good discussions. >> that's an amazing moment. his lawyer planned to have the
4:42 pm
discussion in several days. within hours, he was beer and live streaming his analysis on the internet and playing xbox, and thing two in 60 seconds. choose from the is turbo, es 350 or nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months if you lease now. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. tha...oh, burnt-on gravy?ie. ...gotta rinse that. nope. no way. nada. really? dish issues? throw it all in. new cascade platinum powers through... even burnt-on gravy. nice. cascade.
4:43 pm
there's a good chance there's no jail sentence at all. if it is a year, that's four he months at club fed. i'll play basketball and tennis and x-box and be out on the streets very quickly. >> that was martin live streaming his prediction. shortly after being found guilty of fraud. he spoke with a reporter, he depicted his life as rather mod -- modest with a focus on philanthropy.
4:44 pm
>> this is the life i live. i don't buy fancy things. i donated $2 million. to the wu tang clan. >> you donated money to a wu tang clan. >> i got a mixed tape in return. it was a wonderful investment. people may see that as splurging. but i don't think -- there are many people that would patronize hip-hop to the except i have. new charmin ultra soft! it's softer than ever. new charmin ultra soft is softer than ever so it's harder to resist.
4:45 pm
okay, this is getting a little weird enjoy the go with charmin rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief helps block 6 key inflammatory substances with a gentle mist. most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. flonase sensimist. ♪ anyone who calls it a hobby doesn't understand. we know that a person's passion is what drives them. [ clapping ] and that's why every memorial we create is a true reflection of the individual. only a dignity memorial professional can celebrate a life like no other. find out how at
4:46 pm
today president donald trump headed to his golf club in bedminster, new jersey, for what has been billed as a working vacation. while the white house gets much needed repairs. along with installing a high volume air-conditioning system, the work may include replacing carpet and addressing other issues. and days after sports illustrated him as saying while at his golf course, he was spending time away from washington because that white house is a real dump. the president called the story, quote, fake news and totally untrue but the reporter pushed back pointing out that trump's
4:47 pm
comment was made in front of eight or nine people and telling msnbc that white house strategic director essentially confirmed it. >> i talked to people in the original conversation is that they recalled it in vivid detail. i understand why the president felt compelled to skate away from his remarks. but he said it. now, you know, i was called and we had a spicy conversation. >> spicy? >> first it was a lie and then when i laid out the facts, she said he must have been joking. i didn't say in the story what his tone of voice was. i just reported what he said. >> and now he could spend the next days at the club where he called the white house a real dump.
4:48 pm
i'm leaving you, wesley. but why? you haven't noticed me in two years. i was in a coma. well, i still deserve appreciation. who was there for you when you had amnesia? you know i can't remember that. stop this madness. if it's appreciation you want you should both get snapshot from progressive. it rewards good drivers with big discounts on car insurance. i have news. i've used most of our cellular data. come on, susan lucci! ♪
4:49 pm
twith choices like the classicr. crab lover's dream and new favorites like dueling crab legs with dungeness and snow crab. it's happening right now right here at crabfest. red lobster. now this is seafood.
4:50 pm
rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief helps block 6 key inflammatory substances with a gentle mist. most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. flonase sensimist. ♪ 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day.
4:51 pm
putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. gillette - the best a man can get. so i just wanted to say, there are three buckets of stuff. >> right. >> is one of them climate? >> yes. one of them is climate and one is broadly how politics are different now than they were 15 years ago. >> sure. >> citizens united. i'm interested to hear your thoughts on that stuff. and then 2016 stuff. you can decline. >> we'll talk about climate. >> yeah. yeah. i've got to feed the beast, mr. vice president. >> that conversation about feeding the beast and the type of interview i was getting ready to do which made it into his new
4:52 pm
movie, we spoke about climate change back in 2015 and this week i got to talk to al gore again about the realities of climate change. >> the difference between solar electricity unsubsidized being more expensive than fossil fuel electricity and less expensive is not a trivial difference. and that's the difference of more than one degree and the difference between ice and water and in markets, the difference between the new alternatives being more expensive and cheaper than existing energy is the difference between markets that are frozen up and markets where there are liquid flows of investment. for the last seven years, chris, on a global basis, the investment in new generating
4:53 pm
capacity for renewables have outstripped the fossils in this energy, in this year. 75% of all of the electricity generation came from solar and wind and virtually none from coal. the balance was from gas. >> so that brings to me the central issue, which is politics. there's the technology going in different ways. >> yeah. >> but the mechanisms are all about politics and they are about dmoeb balanglobal politic domestic politics. there's a moment where you talk about the 2000 election and the u.s. was going to be a party to kyoto and the democrat wins more votes than the popular election does not become the president of the united states. the republican gets in, pulls out of an international climate treaty. we have literally recreated that 16 years later. at both points, i mean, that was a big moment. a fork in the road for the
4:54 pm
climate and for the country. why did it happen again, i guess is my question? >> well, i don't think very many people voted for trump on the basis of the climate issue. actually, a plurality of his voters wanted us to stay in paris. >> yeah. >> two-thirds of the american people. and the pattern we were talking about -- >> but what is key about that, right, is that the preference wasn't strong enough to override other stuff? >> that's right. another big change in the last decade, in addition to the technological developments making clean energy and sustainability far more affordable. the other big change is that the climate-related extreme weather events have become far more serious, far more destructive and common. >> and evident. >> and evident. yesterday in miami, two inches
4:55 pm
in two hours. we're seeing these rain bombs on a regular basis because the water cycle is being disrupted by 90% of the global warming heat going into the oceans and evaporating moisture, which comes over the land and causes these extreme events. and the ice is melting and raising sea level and tropical diseases are moving northward and the droughts are deeper. people are feeling this now. and in politics and in social movements, the pattern we were talking about in technology also is sometimes evident there. i'll give you a quick example. you can talk about women suffrage in the anti-apartheid movement, nelson mandela said it's always impossible until it's done. if someone told me five years ago that in 2017 gay marriage would be legal in all 50 states,
4:56 pm
i would have said, i sure hope so but i think that's unrealistic and naive. it happened because the strawmen were pushed aside and people focused on the central choice between what is right and what is wrong. that's the point we're at with the climate movement. >> there's a theory about the resistance that we've had. climate is a cultural war issue. when people talk about it and the opposition to it, its opposition is why you've become this kind of for opponents of it because they are not really talking about potential to risks. they are talking about those liberals who aren't like you who want to tell you what to do who are associated with a whole bunch of cultural baggage that you shouldn't like. and i guess the question is that defines all of our politics but nowhere is it stronger or harder
4:57 pm
to defeat than in this place because you need to motivate people to do stuff that's very difficult to do. >> yeah. there's an old saying in tennessee where i grew up that if you see a turtle on top of a fence post, you can pretty sure it didn't get there by itself. when we see the united states as the only country in the world with these persistent levels of denial among a shrinking minority but still there, we can be pretty sure it didn't happen by itself. the large carbon polluters have spent between 1 and $2 billion taking the play book from the tobacco industry, which responded to the scientific consensus linking cigarettes to lung cancer and other diseases. they hired actors and dressed them up as doctors and put them up on camera. and before policies were finally changed. they've hired the same pr firms. >> yeah. >> and it's deeply unethical.
4:58 pm
and the good news is, people are beginning to see through that. >> so this culture war that you're talking about, if you put it in the larger context of what is helping to people's lives, we're seeing huge changes in the kblo global economy and american economy. wages have stagnant for middle income families for decades now and there's a lot of understandable unrest and elites were slow to recognize it because the increasing inequality kept the elite incomes going up. meanwhile, hype better globalization, fun jobs to low fund venues, intelligence to au automation hallowed out and so people began to question the reliability of experts who had charted this kbloglobalization and the policies that were supposed to improve their lives.
4:59 pm
>> you were one of them? >> yeah. absolutely. and i will own up to that. although, i think in the '90s we did a heck of a lot better job than what followed because we respected the social contract that even as we recognize the inevitable changes that are driven by technology and the job training and creation of new opportunities by working together through the instruments of self-government where the market's not going to take care of itself. s surrendering everything to the government and abandoning the options that you have with policies to remedy the excesses and heal the damage, that's what's really caused this tremendous unrest. a demagogue comes in and says we're going to return to the past and everything will be fine. that has an understandable appeal. it's not working because it was never based on reality.
5:00 pm
>> all right. vice president al gore, great to have you. the movie is called "an inconvenience truth." >> that does it for us. you can catch us every night right here at 8:00 on msnbc. we have a special program tonight. trump under siege, and we are live right now with some late-breaking news this evening from "the new york times." special counsel mueller's investigators have just made contact with the white house. they're demanding documents about michael flynn's ties to foreign powers. that i can tell you is a first. meanwhile, trump under siege from the grand jury, the internal leaks, and punching back today through a cabinet official that trump of course recently disdained, attorney general jeff sessions. calling for a crackdown on the leakers and on the press. i am ari melber, and this is a special hour of "the last word." >> donald trump is officially on vacation. >> as new signs robert mueller's russia investigation is growing in intensity and scope.