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tv   The 11th Hour With Brian Williams  MSNBC  August 19, 2017 1:00am-2:00am PDT

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fallout -- continues from the charlottesville, the resolving door swings again as the president is now without the core group he came to office with. all of it as "the 11th hour" on a friday night gets underway now. >> and live on a friday evening, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. day 211 of the trump administration and the white house is now without the man routinely parodies on snl as the grim reaper. steve bannon is out. he said he resigned and other sources say he was hout and they say it was a agreement. general john kelly, the white house chief of staff, left the white house and as quickly as you could say alt right, he whats was right back at breitbart and full of action word quotes for the reporters who talked to him. he was greeted at his old shop with the headline, populist hero steven k. bannon returns to
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breitbart. and trump was annoyed that he landed a time magazine cover which called him the great manipulator and told the wall street, i'm see saying that he is a guy that works for me. he is a good guy. and it was told the president didn't like the photo on the cover or the fact that bannon's name was above his. then the new chief of staff arrived, john kelly, the discipline and button down former four star marine general despite bannon's years in the navy, the two didn't mesh. politico said kelly didn't understand what bannon did and why he had a pr portfolio and why he seemed to cause so much trouble with colleagues and so widely disliked and with then rumors swirling about his position, listen how the
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president responded when asked about them. >> i like mr. brannon. he is a friend of mine. but he came on very late. you know that. i went through 17 senators, governors and i won all of the primaries. mr. bannon came on very much later than. and i like him, he's a good man. he is not a racist. i can tell you that. he's a good person. he actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. but we'll see what happens with mr. bannon. >> we all know how that ended up to mr. brannon and in the business of politics where they do eat their young, there is already intense speculation over whether two other kind of bannon-its, sebastian gorka and steven miller will be long for the west wing under general kelly. immediately after today's bannon news, followed quickly by breitbart announcing the former boss was returning, bannon, who does not suffer from low
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self-esteem told a reporter, i feel jacked up, now i'm free. i've got my hands back on my weapons. smup said it is bannon the barbarian and i'm going to crush the opposition. no doubt i built a fing machine and we're about to rev the machine up and rev it up we will do. he added this ominous claim. the trump presidency that we fought for and won is over. we still have a huge movement. and we will make something of this trump presidency but that presidency is over. it will be something else. and there will be all kinds of fights and there will be good days and bad days but that presidency is over. who said friday night lights, much to discuss on a friday night and let's bring in tonight's leadoff panel. kristen welker, who spent the day reporting from new jersey where the president had been staying during his working vacation. he's already in camp david for the weekend. jonathan la mere. white house reporter for the
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associated press. philip rucker, for the washington post and jonathan swan, national political reporter. he reported early this morning long before bannon was gone that officials indeed expected him to be gone. jonathan swan, i have to tell you, two nights ago you were here with us when bannon had given those two odd print interviews. oddly empowered. and you were the first to make a point that looking at his kwoelts -- quotes, he sounded like a president to you. you noted that the president didn't like that. it is unbecoming on other people that are not present and walk us through today and the anatomy of this story for you. >> well this was done long before today. donald trump, we reported it on saturday. last saturday, that donald trump is telling people that steve bannon was a leaker. he told multiple people that. i was told a few days later, he even told steve bannon that in front of at least one other person.
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and donald trump was fed up with steve bannon. he was saying things like who does this guy think he is. and he thought that steve bannon was a self-indulgent and had created this myth that he had built the election victory and that he was the architect and he very much recented -- recented the book, that people close to trump believes it was a biography of steve bannon. and all of these things came together with a senior staff in the west wing that was entirely united against steve bannon. you described earlier steven miller as a bannon-ite. no way, it was steven miller at the end of bannonites. his loyalties were no longer with steve bannon. steve bannon had two people in the white house that remained loyal to him by the end and nob of them at the top ranks. so all of those things came together and people then, when john kelly came in, told steve bannon -- told john kelly that
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steve bannon was encouraging the outside campaign against general h.r. mcmaster, kelly was stunned by that and horrified by that. steve bannon told people he wasn't involved in that but nobody in the west wing believed that. but all of these things came together. he was fired. you hear the resignation. that was a face-saving conversation but he was told his time was up. >> and let's not forget, i remember that bannon said there is no military option in north korea. >> that interview was -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> to be clear, though. i was still stick by my reporting on that story. that was the one interview that he really did not intend that to be on the record. that was purely bannon excited about a china ally and it was truly a blunder. that interview. >> it was on the phone with a veteran journalist with a progressive leaning website.
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kristen welker in the flesh. >> it is good to see you. >> and i'm reminded camp david with a day trip for an afghanistan meeting. president is back in bedminster tonight. so talk about bannon's baliwick, and it was an interesting title, people agreed he had no business on the national security counsel and was eased off of that early on. but how big of a gulf does he leave. is the other way of asking. >> in one sense, brian, that was the president's touch tone to his base. he was the person who was there reminding the president of all of the reasons that he got elected and all of those prom he issize -- promises on the campaign trail whether over trade or -- when he announced he was pulling out of the paris climate agreement and that was opposed by jared kushner and ivanka trump and the question is how much matter. and look at what we saw this week.
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the fact that he came out and made this very controversial comments about charlottesville, if you believe the timing of this, then steve bannon was already out when the president made those comments. when after the attack in madrid, you had the president come out and revive that debunked myth. that is all donald trump. that is not steve bannon. you can't point the finger at him for those actions. again, if you believe the time line that he was already out. so i think that the gulf that he leaves is a big question mark. what will we see from the president's base in will some of the support start to erode, but i don't think you will see a big shift in this president. donald trump is donald trump. >> and you areminding readers, stroib role dur the campaign. >> he came in at a low. he and kellyanne conway came in late august and trump was trailing in the polls.
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and he encouraged trump to fight, fight and fight. and even harder than he did before and he shaped -- it is much more honed it as a populist nationalist view. and injected what some suggested were conspiracy before bankers an the elites. >> some of it vaguey ant semitic. >> and he really honed the president's attacks on hillary clinton. that at the time trump was still sort of rewaging the primary and the attacking of the republican establishment. bannon got him to focus on his democrat opponent and pretty effective at changing the narrative and i will never forget a week or so after the access hollywood tape dropped and women came forward and suggested that donald trump what had done -- he had done to them, before the second presidential debate with hillary clinton. they had a surprise press
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conference from all of the women in a accused bill clinton of sexual abusing them. and i was part of the crew that day. there is footage of me and other reporters with our mouths open and hard to believe. >> philip ruckir, you get in many ways the hardest question. this verbiage from bannon about the fight and his weapons and about the presidency being over. this is a guy referred to the west wing democrats very der izively and tell me what that means and who has the most to lose and worry about with him on the outside, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. >> well, i believe that general john kelly removed bannon, and fired him in order to instill order and discipline in this white house. i don't know how long that is going to last. because bannon is signaling that he will wage war with his former colleagues from the outside. and we know that for months now he's been feuding with jared kushner, the president's
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son-in-law and senior adviser with gary cohn and with hr mcmaster and another general and the national security adviser and i think he will continue to do this from the outside, his alliesing with telling me an my colleagues and other panelists here that bannon is going to go to war over this agenda and fight to try to keep trump honest with his campaign promises and to encourage his facialist impulses from the outside and we should remember that bannon will still have a connection to trump. remember cory lewandowski, the campaign manager, he was fired from the campaign but he continues to talk to the president to advise him and formally he has his cell phone number. i expect bannon will continue to have some link into trump himself personally. >> mr. swan, i know you don't work for the culture section at the newspaper, but this attack from the outside and bannon mentioned cnn, singling out a network and corporate and political types and he is going
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after the president's sitting son if law and senior adviser, won't that make for such an increased toxic environment just generally as we go about the next few months? >> well, yes. on the outside it will. there won't be as much toxicity inside of the west wing. but absolutely. steve bannon gave this quote, i can't remember which publication. i'm going to war for donald trump against the media the corporates and capitol hill. he left out the people in the white house. he's going to war against. i expect breitbart will go even more thermo nuclear against mcmaster, gary cohn and dina powell and jared and ivanka were a third rail and breitbart didn't touch them even though privately they would call them the west wing democrats, they didn't touch them but they
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started to hit them in the last few weeks an it will only be turned out. and i expect they will engage very quickly in a campaign to remove paul ryan from the speakership. they will go full on against paul ryan. and i expect that there will be a big investment in breitbart, an extra investment there the mercers. this is all just dialed up and up. >> and philip, back to you, the world is upside down. a., how will the president take those attacks on his remaining people and b., guess who you need to get legislation threw -- through, the speaker of the house. >> it is a big point that you raised about the agenda which frankly is in shambles at this point and the departure of steve bannon has an impact on the hill. close to a congressman named mark meadows house of the freedom caucus and that is the group of anti-establishment and hard-line republicans who very much need to be aa part of any
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coalition to pass tax reform or to pass infrastructure or anything that trump wants to get accomplished and without bannon in the white house, those lawmakers don't have a natural ally to advocate for them and to smooth -- to smooth out the negotiations. >> jonl la mere "the new york times," you may know her, maggie haberman writes about the bannon firing. some close to bannon are fuming, wow, what is wrng with me. seeing him as the distraction to switch topics for the day. just reporting as to just say, don't shoot the messenger. as shiny objects go, this would be a big one on a friday. >> that is. people have been talking about steve bannon for a long time. democrats have made him enemy number one and in many case morz than the president for a long time. this is a -- this is a loss that will resonate. this is a significant blow to the imagery of this white house
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going forward. having said that, charlottesville is not going anywhere. there are more protests planned this weekend by white supremacist groups in cities across this country. the president's words, we're seeing more and more of his counsel disbanded, business councils leave and as the ceo and chief, that is a devastating blow for him. we still have major foreign policy decisions on horizon. but this is something here, charlottesville, that is going to stick with this president for a long time. and we will see if more and more republicans, who we started to see yesterday with bob corker being the hardest hitting suggesting didn't have the temperament for the job and will more member of his party defect. >> and for the sake of two strike a blow for press freedom and saying the white house is not allowing the media near the
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bedminster. they are in a separate town, 20 minutes drive time if trax is good. so if we see kristen welker, it has nothing to do with the man you are covering any hoo, and military action, and potential military action forn venezuela and now charlottesville. >> and there was a big discussion about the strategy moving forward in afghanistan today. this is the working vacation. we thought it would be slower. we were of course wrong. to the point that jonathan is making though about charlottesville, even though our reporting shows that that is not the reason that bannon was ousted, you did have a lot of republicans saying that it is time for him to go. that he represents this alt right factor of the white house and it was time to get that out. so the question becomes will the president be able to mend some of those fences because as phil was talking about his legislative agenda is falled.
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one senior telling me if they can't get tax reform done it is devastating for republicans and one more point i will make. this speaks to the fact that general john kelly is making it clear, there is a new sheriff in town. how much influence will he be able to continue to have in the wake of this bannon ouster, this is his decision, he recommended this to the president. the president accepted the recommendation, but this was very much driven by john kelly. >> let me say to our viewers from you are watching from a vacation home in august. join us in silent thanks for our top-flite initial panel tonight on a friday night in august. kristen welker, jonathan la mere. philip rutger and john swan, our great thanks to you for giving us part of your friday night in august. coming up after the first break. remember when nothing ever happened in washington on friday in august. we don't either. our nightly chronicle of the new normal, the late night endeavor we like to call "the 11th hour"
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will be right back after this.
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>> welcome back. another shake up in the west wing and another of the president's top advisers to leave his side. the core around this president has dwindled to what you might call friends and family now. and ageneral. for example, i want to show you this. this is the gathering around the resolute desk in the oval office on january 28th. president was on phone with putin. all of the people in the photo are gone. except for the president and vice president. they've all joined the list of the vaporized. two great columnists are with us to talk about it. clarence page, chicago tribune is back with us tonight and endeara loxman on boston globe, chair of journalism ethics at the pointer institute. and good evening to you both.
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and clarence, what does the organization chart look like at this place these days and is chaos just going to be the norm? >> i'm path -- imagining a bowl of spaghetti as far as the organizational chart goes. we've become accustomed to the stories of chaos coming out of the white house and i can't imagine anything different now but i'm happy to see john kelly asserting himself if that is what is happening and it looks like it has. he looked quite forlorn the other day on the side lines while president trump went on and on with his argument that both sides were at fault for the violence in charlottesville. this is a sort of thing that kelly and the trump white house really don't need right now. but president trump sort of enjoys it and so did steve bannon. and that is the sort of thing that i don't see much of a change coming ahead with that.
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the discussion you just had was very illuminating in regard to bannon wanting to wage war against his rivals, foes, adversaries over in congress and in the white house and in the media. but that is what he's been doing all along and you see the results. not getting much done and so i don't see much of a change from that in the coming months. >> and endura, josh green who wrote the book about bannon that rocketed to number one on amazon and has enjoyed a good run prior to the departure of mr. bannon, wrote about bannon on bloomberg today before i ask you a question, i want to read you. holiday banons path from trusted attack dog to toxic liability, the cost of bannon's failure to adapt from campaigns to governing became evident on friday. ignoring by john kelly to cease the warfare through the trump
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presidenty and bannon give a interview to a liberal policy journal in which he vowed to out the state and defense department who he claimed were wetting themselves over some of his plans. and how can you govern this way and was this ever going to end any other way? >> well, look, brian, i want to say that i think that trump is always going to be trump. and for people to think that john kelly is going in there and somehow cleaning house, i just -- i think it is the wrong frame through which could be looking at this. i think you can't clean house for somebody who doesn't want their house cleaned. this is the way donald trump likes things to be. he likes chaos. this is the way he works. and frankly speaking, i don't think we should think there is any less of a bond between him and steve bannon because steve bannon is on the outs. as one of your previous
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panelists pointed out, there are many people who he had to cut ties with very reluctantly who he still continues to keep in touch with. cory lewandowski is one of them, his one time campaign manager and he kept in touch with michael flynn for ages after he had to cut him off as national security adviser. roger stone and there are plenty of people who cut loose and who continued to be part of his inner circle and steve bannon in an interview with my old colleague joshua green said, just to be clear, i'm leaving the white house to go to war for trump against capitol hill, the media, the globalists, so i think he's still very much on donald trump's side, and is going to be fighting that war kind of completely unleashed and unplugged on the outside now. >> clarence, because you've been around washington for a while, i feel like making the point will b how covering presidents has changed. we haven't seen him since the ill-fated press appearance in the trump tower lobby, but with the kind of holy trinity in his life of his cell phone, a cable
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tv box and a wi-fi password. he makes sure he stays in the news. >> yeah, he does. and he seems to do a better job of making news than following the news. it is rather remarkable to have a president who seemed to prefer getting briefings from cable news, particularly fox news, rather that his presidential daily briefings from what we hear. an this is also -- he has was more isolated from the press than previous presidents. and even to -- to turning down the gridiron dinner the first president since grover cleveland to skip that dinner and skipped the white house course poendents dinner and very loyal to his friends. and liken deera said, she hangs on to lewandowski and it doesn't help him get his bills through congress. >> and i hate to end on a negative note but the question
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in our first segment, breitbart, mr. bannon et al., do have the ability to launch a toxic, very public war on some individuals with stories true or not that will get a big, long ride and that is not going to be pleasant for americans to live through on top of everything else. >> i think it could get really ugly. he is now back in the hot seat as you say, jacked up at breitbart and he could use the power of that media against his enemies who are back in the white house. but keep an eye on fox news and what happened with rupert murdoch. i was interested the e-mail that went out yesterday about how appalled he was by the president's racist comments and his $1 million donation to the adl and the same week that the
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murd dock's paper published government documents from australia showing trump was not able to get his casino in australia in the 80s because of concern over mob ties. so embarrassing stuff in murdock land and i wonder whether we might see fox news maybe subtly turning against him in some way. so it is interesting to see what happens to right wing media in general. >> thank you to our friends clarence and endeera. coming up after the break. there were a few democrats who called for steve bannon to be fired peadly after his hiring was announced and you within of then was the junior democratic senator from the great state of hawaii. show joins us live from there when we continue.
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president's send clear messages about their intentions by who they appoint to senior positions. what steve bannon believes is not a mystery. he has demeaned women, advocated for white supremacists and promoted ant semitism. >> and that is mazy hor onno last september calling for steve bannon to be fired days after being offered the white house job and he joins us live from honolulu and senator in addition to thank you for joining us, leadoff question, what do you think this changes anything.
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>> first of all, aloha, the president rearranged deck chairs on the trump titanic all he wants but the problem is him and his inability to focus and his that attacks on anyone to disagrees with him and i am not holding out hope he will change. >> and have you been amazed as a member of the u.s. senate to see mcconnell, flake, john mccain, graham, republican senators, the president's own party attacked by him? >> i think that the president basically attacks anyone that he thinks is tack attacks him or criticized him. i'm happy that there are some republicans who stepping up to criticize the president and his basically fitness and his moral
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authority to be the president of the united states. >> senator, i have to ask you about north korea. because it is -- it is closer than it is for us and it is more personal i'm guessing four your constituents on hawaii and as i a member of armed services how did you watch all of that verbal war go back and forth, feels like a year ago, it was last week. >> i don't think it helped -- at all that president trump went to the level of kim jong-un and the kind of the verbal exchanges. it didn't help. but what it shows is how important pursuing a diplomatic resolution to this conflict is and i stayed in very close touch with our pacific command. in fact i got a briefing along with some of my colleagues from the senate yesterday from admiral harris about north korea. and so while the people of
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hawaii are concerned, we are not panicking. >> and senator john mccain and you have both been going through round one of chemo. something that links you across the aisle and the senate in addition to being friends and colleagues. i have to ask, how is your health? >> i'm recovering, but i am well. believe me, there are so many battles to fight that it just -- it just keeps me going. there are new assaults on body of politics every single day from this administration so it enearthized me. not to mention that i hear from so many people saying we have to keep fighting and i will. >> well, senator, early evening on an august friday night. and in paradise. thank you so much for finding time to join us. >> thank you. >> and as you always say to us aloha. >> aloha. >> senator mazy horrono joining us live from honno lieuu. after another break, more members of the president's own party speaking out against his response in charlottesville.
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more on that when we're back.
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welcome back to our broadcast, the ris of senators calling out the president for the handling of charlottesville grew by one today. john cornyn became the first member of his party leadership to condemn the president directly. and in an interview with the houston chronicle he said the president missed an opportunity to unite the country but some of the harshest criticism came from standard bearer mitt romney. as you may read in a blistering statement on facebook, he called on trump to apologize to the american people. he wrote in part, whether he intended to or not, what he communicated caused racists to rejoice and minorities to weep and the vast heart of america to mourn. his apoly strained to explain what we heard and what we heard
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is now the reality and unless it is addressed by the president as such, there may commence an unraveling of our national fabric. and it was senator bob corker's remarks that paved the way for others to come out now and express their distaste for the president's actions and specially republicans and members of the senate. he chose his words so carefully yesterday, talking to reporters back home in tennessee. >> i do think there need to be some radical changes. the president has not yet -- has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability, nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful. he has not demonstrated that he's -- he understands what has
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made this nation great and what it is today. and he's got to demonstrate the characteristics of a president who understands that. and without the things that i just mentioned happening, our nation is going to go through a great peril. >> that gets your attention. and earlier today in this very room on the air was nicole wallace, her fellow veteran of the john mccain campaign and life long republican steve schmidt picked up on those ominous words from the senator while calling the other republicans flat out cowards. >> good for the chairman of the foreign relations committee that he said it because they are cowards, nicole. you would see the yellow streak running down their backs and when you look at the behavior, the lack of rekt tude on the part of the commander-in-chief,
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of course the nation is in peril. we live in a profoundly dangerous times and when you see someone acting with the recklessness and the lack of preparedness, the possibility of their being great tragedy should not be -- should not be lost on anyone. >> that gets your attention as well. and joining us tonight, to talk about it, correspondent edward ike acand christina bellan tony at the l.a. times. welcome to you both. and isaac, will we start seeing a trickle you think, to listen to both of those men, steve schmidt bleeds republican red. he is mourning for this wing of his party. >> and it is more than that. it is not about politics here. you see words like unraveling of the fabric. a great peril. this is -- no man is an island but donald trump is getting close here. and why? because there could not be
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anything more simple on moral grounds one would think and certainly on political ground that saying nazis are bad and white supremacists are bad but the president hasn't been able to muster that and does not seem to be in any mood to change his public stance on this. we had four days in a row since the press conference where we've seen no public comment from the president and tomorrow he has no public schedule and we'll go a week after the nazi march in charlottesville without hearing a full throated condemnation and more than that if what the last couple of days have told us are to be predicted of the future. >> christina, there you are several time zones away and was the shock and awe and reverberation the same if realtime as we sat in our offices here in new york and watched the president as words from the lobby of trump tower? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, particularly with our audience in los angeles, these are people that have been
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apprehensive about president trump for the most part. california did not support him. although it is important to point out that he got only second -- the state where he got the most raw votes actually is california behind texas. because we have such a giant population here. but it was not something that was welcomed here and particularly this weekend they're expecting to have one of the so-called alt right rallies in laguna beach, california, this is a volatile situation and people are watching it very closely and we're covering what the republicans are doing right now very closely and in california you've seen former governor arnold schwarzenegger and many republicans in the legislature sing a much different tune than some of the national republicans and they have condemned him very specifically for what he is saying this past week. >> and boston is worried this weekend as well. so isaac, here we have bob corker. a thoughtful guy in the senate and known as a worker bee.
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in a ballroom, i believe it was in nashville, prior to a luncheon starting with local media reporters that he knew. and microphones whose logos he recognized, but pausing regularly and for a long time to measure his words. is that a turning point? will you know what a turning point looks like if not that? >> it does seem like it is a turning point. and look, we saw also pat toomey from pennsylvania tweeted earlier today -- >> we have that. >> he said it is great that steve bannon is gone. but you know what, right after the election when steve bannon was appointed there war local press in pennsylvania that asked toomey what he thought of it because he was reluctant to say he was vote for trump and he said he would not have a comment on steve bannon being apointed. so now you do see movement going on. it is not exactly a rush to condemnation and not a lot of profiles and courage and i don't think you would call any of
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these at this point. but if this continues what starts as a trickle could become much more than that and where that leaves the president. >> don't think any of us know. >> the amount of courage that it takes to say something on twitter is a -- >> as someone who tweets a lot, it is not courageous work. >> it is what they say when they come off of recess and go to washington, d.c. christina, you have so many congressional districts in that state. obviously the whole house is up in 2018. you are having a science experiment out there on people who take that deep breath and one are trump, run the other way, or try to get it right down the middle and [ inaudible ]. >> a good example is darrell issa, he had a very narrow re-election win in 2016. he called for hearings on white supremacy yesterday. that is not an accident.
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he's facing a tough re-election battle. the democrats have to win the seats in california, the path starts here in california. which isn't usually the case. but i will point out, these republicans, this is exactly what they were afraid of during the campaign trail privately before the primary or during the long primary. they didn't want to be constantly put on the defensive and asked to respond to the latest thing donald trump tweeted or said. but they weren't publicly saying anything until those access hollywood tapes came out in the late fall and then they didn't actually do that much in and many of them were on a broad spectrum. well i will vote for him because he's the republican nominee and i'm not going to vote for hillary clinton or i'm going to vote for a libertarian or not going to vote for that particular office. and so here they are many months later and they're back in the same position that many of them feared privately they would be in and constantly responding to it and it is distracting it the agenda they would like to perceive.
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>> and great thanks you. isaac and christina, two fine people on both sides of your screen. thank you. and another break for us. we're back with more right after this.
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welcome back to our broadcast. the korea crisis of just last week was replaced in the news by the charlottesville crisis of this week, and yet, the russia investigation continues. there's a report on buzzfeed that donald trump has become a to cal point of robert mueller's investigation. attempting to figure out his intent when he attended a meeting in which he was promised dirt on hillary clinton as part of russia's support for trump's campaign. the question of intent could be crucial in determining if donald trump jr. violated the law.
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with us tonight to talk about this, our friend joan wine banks and msnbc contributor. why does intent matter, and how does it apply to don jr. here? >> intent is one of the elements of a crime. and so the prosecutor will have to prove. if we read just the e-mails all by themselves there's enough to show intent. the letter makes clear that it is russian government that wants to help him, they have information that will hurt hillary clinton, there are russian government documents, that a russian government lawyer is coming to deliver them. and thatmation it very clear that he intended to receive something from a foreign national, when he went ahead with it. he said that would be great
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especially later in the summer. he was plotting exactly when it should be released. and i think that shows one, that he knew it was a foreign national, and two, that he had the intents to receive such information and i think that's a clear-cut case, and that it is something that has to be fully investigated. the same is true for manafort and kushner. they saw the same information and went to the same meeting. >> now, everything you just mentioned about the meeting, remember, we learned on kind of a rolling disclosure, evolving description basis. it changed drastically from the first word of the meeting. so what i've been wanting to ask you is, is that considered suspect or antagonistic behavior if you're mueller >> it makes you look guilty.
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if you were having a conversation with someone and they said to you, i need to a meeting because i wanted to buy a piece of bread, and you saw that their grocery store list had a bottle of champagne, you wouldn't believe them, and it makes them look guilty. when they said it was about adoption when donald trump -- and apparently donald trump president is in part responsible for having that put out that it was supposed to be about adoptions. first of all, adoptions is a code word for sanctions which was improper for them to be discussing, so that would have been wrong too. but it's clear if you read the e-mails in the proper order, and when donald trump jr. released them, he did them in reverse order, and it's hard to follow. "the new york times" had it in
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the correct order. and the first e-mail makes it clear this was not about adoptions. it is about getting opposition research that will hurt hillary clinton and help president trump become president. >> our very favorite chicago-based lawyer, joan wine banks. we appreciate you always coming on the broadcast. another break for us. we're back with more right after this.
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whatever is behind his departure, the president certainly talked up his good friend carl on the campaign trail. >> carl endorsed me. watch our trade deal. it stwings china. >> i got carl. >> carl is supporting me. >> i have carl ready. killer. killer. >> i'll put him in charge of zion take china. >> trade with china. >> do me a favor, work it out. >> give each one a country. they'll make a great deal. >> i had the best negotiates in the world, carl icahn. the greatest negotiators read "the art of the deal." >> no exit pollers said carl was the reason behind their vote. it's clear his validation was important to donald trump. just something to keep in mind in case over the next few days you hear the president say about mr. icahn, he joined later in the campaign but he's good guy.
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look at the time. that's our broadcast on a zpritsds for this week, thank you for being here with us, goonts from nbc news headquarters here in new york. bannon banished. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm steve kornacki if for chris matthews. after serving for seven months as the president's top white house strategist, steve bannon is out tonight. the white house says bannon and chief of staff john kelly quote mutually agree today would be his final day. action axios says steve was made aware he was going to be asked


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