tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC September 27, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PDT
everybody. we want to mention that mika is going to be on "new york live" at 11:30 this morning. host jacque reid and sarah gore will be talking about know your value. >> that's a good show. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. we'll see you tomorrow. >> thanks, joe. hey, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning we have got a lot to cover, starting with tired of winning. president trump couldn't get his base behind senator luther strange, and alabama republicans chose roy moore, a former judge who thinks homosexuality should be illegal. >> i'm not going into issues tonight. i'm going to celebrate this victory. >> yeah, that wasn't a joke. and health care fails yet again, so where is the president turning next? tax reform, with promises his own plan might not actually keep. >> we will cut taxes tremendously for the middle class. not just a little bit, but
tremendously. >> we're going to walk through those numbers. and it is getting worse. nearly half of all residents in puerto rico are without access to drinking water, medical supplies. they're running out. and throughout this show, we're going to show you ways that you can help today. >> we need diesel, we need gas, we need running water, and we need our hospitals not to become death traps. >> don't forget, puerto rico, there's 3.5 million u.s. citizens. we begin today with the president under some serious pressure. he could not get luther strange elected, he could not he help republicans push health care shot and today he's going to give tax reform a shot. we have a great team starting with kristen welker live at the white house. kristen, let's start with roy moore. not the result the white house was hoping for. president trump himself went to alabama, was backing luther strange, and then last night he
seemed to be deleting those tweets he had previously put t out. >> reporter: as you said, this was a rough political day for president trump. his health care bill went down in flames and then the candidate that he backed, luther strange, the establishment candidate, by the way, failed to deliver a victory, lost to roy moore, who was, of course, supported by steve bannon. that's president trump's former top advisor. this is a race, steph, that pitted the president against his base. he seemed to even acknowledge that he was facing steep odds when he went to campaign for luther strange on friday, which is an interesting political tactic. take a listen to what he had to say. it raised a lot of eyebrows. >> if luther doesn't win, they're not going to say we picked up 25 points in a very short period of time. they're going to say donald trump, the president of the united states, was unable to pull his candidate across the
line. it is a terrible, terrible moment for trump. >> reporter: so, steph, we'll have to see if that's what everyone has to say today. but look, this does raise questions about president trump's ability to influence his own party on the one hand. so i think that's one headline here. on the other hand, remember a lot of roy moore's supporters also backed donald trump. steve bannon actually used that as one of his talking points when he was stumping for roy moore. he said, look, this is going to be the best candidate to try to get president trump's agenda through congress, and that's a point that roy moore really stressed in his acceptance speech. take a listen. >> we can support the president. don't let anybody in the press think that because he supported my opponent that i do not support him and support his agenda. >> reporter: roy moore and the president trying to show a united front today, steph.
president trump deleting some of his tweets supporting, as you said, luther strange on tuesday, but he is tweeting about roy moore this morning. here's what he had to say. spoke to roy moore of alabama last night for the first time. sounds like a really great guy who ran a fantastic race. he will help to #maga. that stands for make america great again. but the other fact is this race really exposes what is becoming a civil war of sorts within the republican party, insurgent candidates increasingly becoming emboldened and empowered. roy moore is a very controversial candidate. he could be politically difficult for president trump as this heads into the general election race. this is someone who's referred to islam as a fake religion, who's maligned homosexuals as well as people of color. so the politics get very tricky for the president, steph, moving forward. >> tricky is a very nice way to put it. i want to bring my panel in.
heidi przybyla, kate kelly who covers wall street for "the new york times" and jason johnson, politics editor at theroot.com and an msnbc political contributor. as always, we're here to help at msnbc, so if you don't know roy moore well, in addition to some of that information kristen just shared, i want to share that roy moore has said that 9/11, september 11th, was god punishing perverseness. that's right, that's what roy moore thinks. so jason, let's start with you. let's say this guy wins in december. not what does this say about roy moore, what does this say about what's happening to the united states of america? >> stephanie, this is what i wrote. i said this vote was between the ku klux and the klan. this in about ideology, roy moore is a birther. in addition to what he said about homosexuals, he was in favor of checking the papers of latino people. this is a horrible indicator of what this country can actually
elect. we don't want more people who support donald trump. people who support this sort of white nationalist, america is only for certain kinds of people, he was okay with what he said about charlottesville, that is a dangerous precedent and republicans should be concerned. >> and the president once again said roy moore is a great guy. i want to share what steve bannon said. >> you're going to see in state after state after state people that follow the model of judge moore, that do not need to raise money from the elites, from the crony capitalists, from the fat cats in washington, d.c., new york city, silicon valley. >> okay. that's pretty rich, because if you think about steve bannon, former goldman sachs employee who backs him, the mercers, the richest of the rich new york hedge funders. so please, steve bannon, like i'm not going to listen to that for one millisecond. kate, can you talk for a moment about did president trump really back luther strange? because if you think about steve ban non and trump and the base,
could trump not turn this quickly and say, you know what, roy moore was by guy after all. >> the trick with donald trump is he has taken many sides of many issues over the years. >> he loves many sides. many sides, that's his thing. >> right. so this is vintage. i think deleting the tweets is a little bit silly because obviously we all have a record of them. but that's exactly what he's going to do. i notice roy moore said don't think just because this president didn't support me that i don't support him. so all the players on this stage are sort of politically pliable when it comes to loyalties, at least. and probably not when it comes to ideology to the misfortune of the sort of fair-minded people. >> oh, man, mitch mcconnell, that means donald trump is going to dump on you again. heidi, not only did moore win, but yesterday health care went down. and bob corker announced he was retiring. let's talk about who this is worse for, trump or mcconnell. we know the answer is mcconnell.
>> hands down. >> what's bob corker's plan here? is bob corker going to primary trump in a few years or does bob corker just not want to run against whoever the alt-right candidate is going to be. >> if you dig down into the statement that corker issued, he said at the ending of it i'm d this because i believe the next 15 months of my service could be the most important of my entire career. what does that mean? it could mean he's the head of the foreign relations committee, issues like north korea, china, but it could also mean issues related to russia and how this whole investigation goes down and his criticism of trump. i bring you back to just recently a few weeks ago, stephanie, where he said that he didn't think the president was essentially -- >> stable. >> prepared and able for the presidency to serve. so we don't know what he means by that but i was intrigued that he included that in his statement. he's obviously someone who has been willing to speak his mind in the past. just on a personal note, us reporters here in the senate who run around, he's actually
someone who's been very accessible to us and i think will be potentially even more so going forward. it will be interesting to watch. >> retirement looked good on charlie dent the other day. he was sitting back, relaxed and happy to talk about the importance of foreign aid to places in africa, and we know that's a tough argument to be made with this administration. we've got to shift gears, though. do you know why? because it's tax reform day and you write about it. the strategy behind selling it. walk us through this. do you see a contrast between this and how other proposals have been unveiled? because trump has talked about tax reform, tax reform, but never given any details. all he ever says is it's going to be bad for me, it's going to be good for you when he gives speeches but we've never seen any details. just this week i spoke to people inside the white house who said trump hasn't picked up a pen and hasn't done anything himself on tax reform. >> well, they do have a shell of a plan as opposed to with obamacare where he completely outsourced it to the hill. the second thing that they have
are some of these outside grassroots groups that have been organizing around this literally for months going around the country, holding town halls. and as opposed to health care where they were essentially taking something away, they're talking about potentially giving something back here in the form of tax relief. that said, steph, this is going to be a huge haul because they want to sell this as for the middle class. so this is where the details really matter, because what they're talking about in terms of the plan that they're going to unveil today is we know giving a corporate tax cut and then on the other hand slashing those individual rates. well, by definition when you do that for the top earners, they're going to get a bigger takeout. and then how are you going to handle issues, for example, like the estate tax. they want to do away with that. that's long been painted by democrats as a giveaway for the rich. basically it is for people only applying to states worth more than $5 million. so at the same time, there are ways, steph, that i think they
could structure this to get some democrats onboard. i just spoke with one of those vulnerable red state democrats and they said if they structure this the right way, we think there's a deal. we've told the president, for instance, there are certain things that must go. for example, that carried interest rate, for example, some of these things that they could claw back from people that are just seen as basically hands-down benefits for the wealthy. >> the carried interest. i wonder how steve schwartzman will feel about that who was the head of president trump's ceo dounl council and he is the co-founder of blackstone. president trump talks about helping small businesses and what a benefit it would be for those who have an llc. and president trump has over 500 llcs so it would be a huge win for trump and his family. kate, can we really assess this deal? like anything, if you look at the broad strokes and general idea, lots of people can get behind it but we don't know any details. >> we don't know any details. we got a one-pager back in the spring that was roundly mocked.
>> it was like a book report. >> right. we'll get a slightly more detailed blueprint today, we think. already we can see a gravitational pull away from the promises that president trump has made. he said very recently he's sticking to this 15% corporate tax plan. but pragmatically speaking, none of his advisers working on that think this is realistic. steve mnuchin personally believes in the 15% tax rate for corporations. i know that could be true. but he, gary cohn and others are thinking 20% to 25% would be a win and they're going to try to pull the president along with it. i think it's interesting they were hoping that originally i think that team was going to come up with a more detailed blueprint in august. then they said let's turn it over to the relevant congressional committees. then we read that the big six making these decisions has a lot of dispute within itself and can't come up with consensus numbers, big surprise there in our political climate. and so now once again we're probably going to see some ideals today. >> you've got your fiscal hawks who already have concerns.
one of the things i was reading in the weeds is this idea of getting rid of deductions in certain states that are big blue states. all of this, like you mentioned, it's just cliff notes at this point. when this presidency actually gets into the details, that's when we're going to see if he can negotiate with congress and so far we haven't seen that. >> the problem with cliff notes, you might pass the test but you pass it with like a c minus. heidi, just yesterday i did an event with an economic advisor to the president during the campaign, steven moore, who has stayed on this idea that the president has of a 6% gdp productions -- projection. i'd like to point out -- >> for when? >> if gary cohn still worked at goldman sachs and a single person who is an economist in the company walked into his office and said i project 6% gdp, they would be laughed out of the building. >> well, that's always fun to make promises and to set goals. behind the scenes, i did hear that the president the other
night at a dinner on monday, he's not talking about 6%, but he is talking about something in the area of 4%. here's why i think this is going to be a little bit difficult, because the way -- >> did anyone ask him right after that what gdp stands for? >> mnuchin has paid lip service to 4% within recent months, senator? >> he has also said that donald trump has near perfect genes. i just want to fact check. >> the way that trump is going to sell this is that he believes, and it plays into his personal grievance complex to a certain extent, that other countries are basically messing with us and have the advantage and that that really applies to the corporate tax rate. at the same time, they want to sell this as a middle class tax cut and yet it seems that the president is most fixated on this corporate tax cut and that that is the way to kind of get our gdp back up to something like 4% or 5%. >> in recent weeks there's been talk and we even saw echos of
this in the coverage overnight of preserving the top individual tax rate at 39.6%, maybe leaving it as is because they just don't feel like that's where they have political wiggle room. >> lowering taxes doesn't guarantee new hiring and that's the real issue. >> corporations have had more cash on the balance sheet in the last five years than you can shake a stick at. what do they do? share buybacks. there's not a guarantee that suddenly fedex is going to build plants and buy planes. >> no. >> we're taking a break. thank you all. up next, republicans prepare to unveil their much-awaited tax reform plan in just a few hours. we have new details trickling out, but can any democrats get onboard? maybe, we know people want tax relief. the co-chairs of the problem solvers caucus are joining us. later, americans in puerto rico say they are not getting the help they need as the situation grows more dire by the hour. we'll take you live to san juan. pay attention, throughout the hour we'll show you ways that you can help now.
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despite problems passing health care legislation, sources tell nbc news that president trump is, quote, optimistic about a timeline that has the house passing a bill next month and the senate doing the same by december, but this time around will the president be able to get some bipartisan support? i am joined by two favorites of mine, congressman tom reed, republican from new york and congressman josh gottheimer from new jersey. congressman reed, you met yesterday with the president and talked tax reform. what can you tell us about that meeting and what specific details did president trump share about the plan? >> well, you know, the best thing about the meeting was we invited the democratic members of the ways and means committee there -- >> that's not what i asked you, tom. >> i appreciate that, stephanie. the opportunity to be there in the white house with democratic and republican members was excellent. so what we shamed is the framework that you're going to hear about today. we're delving into the details
and we're going to build this from the middle out. >> besides that it was so great and you were honored to be at the white house and see democrats there, what are the details in the plan, sir? >> what you're going to look at is you're going to look at cleaning up the tax code for most -- 95% of americans, be able to do it on a postage card going forward. the bottom line is it needs to be done. as the president said, we're not targeting the wealthy, we're not targeting the 1%, we're targeting middle class and job creation. to me those principles should be shared across the aisles. >> so they're going to do away with carried interest? that's great. >> as we get into the details, i'm sure you'll see many reforms that target those types of individuals, but at the same time, we're going to give relief to hard-working taxpayers across the country. >> josh, do you believe that? >> well, i'm like you, i want to see the details. we've been talking a lot for months now about the need for tax reform, which i obviously believe in. i want to get the rates down. but the question is what does it look like and how are we going to pay for it.
of course, stephanie, you're from jersey, what is the impact on my constituents. things like the state level tax deduction, what they're going to do there. i don't want them raising taxes on people in my district, so this is where i think it's going to be very interesting after today. >> it looks like, congressman reed, republicans are going to try to fast track this so they won't need bipartisan support. do you think that's the right move? i know how much bipartisanship matters to you guys. >> i think we do need bipartisan support. 51 votes in the senate should be democrat and republican members coming together. with josh stepping forward and our problem solvers caucus stepping forward and leading, they're now in the room and having a conversation because they're good-faith members of the congress that allows us to get the deal done for the american people. >> does that mean you guys will try to reintroduce health care? >> health care, obviously i'll let the senate answer that -- >> i mean the problem solvers caucus. >> oh, our caucus, absolute low.
we just sent a letter out yesterday where we reaffirmed our principles that we put together in the proposal we got together as a caucus. i think that's the next step in this process. >> stephanie, to your point, now actually is the time. after we've seen the partisan approach on health care don't work, it's groundhog day, it blew up again, we put forth a bipartisan fix. i think now senator alexander and senator murray are working on a bipartisan fix over there. now is the time for us to get that legislation through. many of us here are supportive. we have to do the same thing on tax reform. now we're going to see the ideas today. the question is will we be at the table. we've met with the chairman of the ways and means. i know that he was eager to hear from us. so now the question is as the details come out, will they take our input, and i'm really hopeful that's what happens. >> that could be the silver lining here on health care. it doesn't have to be a loss if you actually get past the 50 votes if you go for 60 in a bipartisan way, you could actually have a long-term solution for the country. josh, i want to ask you about
puerto rico. what do you think can and should know done by congress? those are 3.5 million u.s. citizens who if things don't get cleaned up there, they can migrate here as soon as the airport opens. >> i think as we've seen on your station and just the pictures over and over again, and i've talked to people about their families being there and what they're facing, and it's devastating. and so we can't sit on the sidelines. i'm really hopeful that we do what we need to do in the coming days here to make sure they get the relief and help we need. i know in texas and florida, as somebody who lived through sandy in jersey, you know what people are going through and we can't just watch. >> we can't even imagine what they're going through in puerto rico. >> no. >> it's an island. and if you compare how long it's taken congress to act to help puerto rico, it's a lot longer than we saw for florida and texas. congressman reed, what's your take? what do we need to do now? >> we're going to get it done for the american people. i mean we have on the floor
today some tax relief measures that are going to allow people to access their retirement, do some things to make sure they don't get taxed as a result of accessing their resources in order to recover from the disasters. but i think in a bipartisan way. we came together recently. we'll continue to come together and take care of our fellow citizens in puerto rico and elsewhere. >> we're going to go because i know you have a retreat to go to, congressman reed. >> he hasn't invited me. i don't know why. >> he's becoming a republican, so he's going to be invited any day he wants. >> i just want to ask you quickly about a republican. congressman reed, what do you think about roy moore? i mean as a new yorker -- real quick, as a new yorker, remember, roy moore is the guy who said 9/11 was god's punishment for perverseness. >> well, my hope is he honors his commitment to the people of alabama to get things done for the people back home. >> you're not rattled by those views? >> well, you know, obviously the concern that he has expressed and the rhetoric that he's expressed -- i'll let him answer to that question. but he's got to govern just like
we have to govern. we're going to be held accountable by the people we represent and now it's time to deliver for them. >> congressman reed, i'm going to hold you accountable to answer more questions next time you come over. >> you should. we need that middle and that's a bad answer. as a democrat, let me tell you that's not an answer. >> he always gets the easy question, what's your favorite color and i get tough questions. >> this is an easy one. josh, are you worried? this is how people in this country are voting. they're voting for a guy who thinks homosexuality should be illegal. are you worried that's what our country is doing? >> that is an understatement that i'm worried about that. we know that the country wants us to work together. electing people like that is not a step in the direction we need. we have to bring out the middle and get things done. last night is not a good step in that direction. so yes, i'm concerned. >> all right, thank you so much for joining me. you know i love having you both on, i appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, scores of puerto ricans waiting in line for days at the san juan airport, desperate to get out. the island's governor fears many
will never return, as millions of americans on u.s. territory beg for help. we're going to take you there live. first, another charity helping the victims of hurricane maria. catholic charities usa providing food, water and supplies. you can contribute by texting ccusadisaster to 71777. or calling 800-919-9338. if you didn't catch that, i'll tweet you that information right now. ♪ (cheering)
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my name is jamir dixon and i'm a locafor pg&e.rk fieldman most people in the community recognize the blue trucks as pg&e. my truck is something new... it's an 811 truck. when you call 811, i come out to your house and i mark out our gas lines and our electric lines to make sure that you don't hit them when you're digging. 811 is a free service. i'm passionate about it because every time i go on the street
i think about my own kids. they're the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california. welcome back. time now for your morning primer, everything you need to know to get your day started. we begin in saudi arabia, where on tuesday the king issued a decree allowing women to drive cars, ending a long-standing ban. women are still forbidden to wear clothes or makeup that show off their beauty and have to limit time spent with men who are not direct family. and the acting chief of the drug enforcement administration is retiring. chuck rosenberg gave no reason although multiple sources have said it is related to his feelings on president trump. president trump's border wall have begun construction in
southern california. eight walls between 18 and 30 feet will be built in the next 30 days. and james mattis arrived this morning for an unannounced visit to afghanistan. hours after his arrival, several small rockets exploded in and around kabul airport. the taliban and isis both claimed responsibility for the attack and said mattis' plane was in fact the target. fortunately, no one was injured. and robots, start your engines. ford will give its self-driving cars to lyft for help in road testing until they are ready, ford will work with lyft to integrate its software into human-driven cars. at this moment, more troops and military personnel are thankfully on their way to puerto rico to help the island recover from what residents are calling apocalyptic devastation caused by hurricane maria. this was the scene at travis air force base in california just a few minutes ago. the navy's hospital ship, the usns comfort will leave virginia for puerto rico over the weekend, but it will not arrive
until next week. nbc's tammy leitner has been in puerto rico since before maria hit the island last week. tammy, please tell us what the residents are facing now. >> reporter: stephanie, it's been a week since hurricane maria made landfall here, and we are still seeing dramatic rescues in communities that are totally isolated. in puerto rico an incredible rescue mission under way. this team of new york city firefighters and police officers searching for a family of six. [ speaking spanish ] gabriel had not heard from his family since hurricane maria chewed up the main bridge, trapping his loved ones and their entire community. his town, one of 11 on the island these rescue workers have still not been able to reach. >> this is going to take over an hour just to get up this hill. >> we've been walking for about 15 minutes. it's slow going because there's
trees down, power lines down. gabriel says the last time he saw his family was five days before the hurricane. gabriel's desperation visible. then finally after almost two weeks apart, an emotional reunion. everyone together once again. his family surviving the cat 5 with enough supplies to last a few more weeks. but gabriel's parents staying behind for now. >> i'm a little sad because we're going to be separated. we used to be together. >> reporter: the good-byes cut short, making it even harder to get off the mountain. across the river, relief.
grateful but facing an uncertain future. gabriel tells me if not for that team of first responders, he believes his family would have been trapped for many days. i can tell you we've been out with a lot of rescue teams and we've seen first responders from all over the united states, florida, nevada, indiana, all of them working with the puerto rican rescue teams. stephanie. >> i'm going to say that rescuer sounded like he had a new york accent. all right, well, i want to stay on this because the power outages in puerto rico, they're really creating life and death situations across the island. according to fema, 58 of the island's 69 hospitals had no power or fuel as of yesterday, and some of those hospitals may not get service restored for many months. with me now by phone is dr. armando oliver from the university of puerto rico school of medicine. please tell us the situation at your hospital this morning, doctor. >> hello, stephanie. i'm at the puerto rico medical
center. we're a complex of seven hospitals that normally have 35 operating rooms and we cover all major specialties in medicine. the situation right now is we only have two functioning operating rooms. there are issues with air conditioning. cannot open more operating rooms if air conditioning is not working. there are multiple issues and they keep showing up one after the other. i heard this morning from the radiology residents that due to power issues, their three ct scans are down and the mri is only functioning at half capacity. i also heard from many doctors and residents that they don't have access to gasoline for their cars, so the issue is even if they are able to come here, they won't have their cars to bring them to the hospital so that's another big issue that they have mentioned to me this
morning. >> i want to share what san juan's mayor said last night. she issued a desperate plea when she joined us on msnbc with rachel maddow. take a listen. >> we need diesel, we need gas, we need running water, we need some sort of way for people to find their way around, and we need our hospitals not to become death traps. so this is a big sos for anybody out there. >> it's an sos. she also went on to say that there are doctors who have come down there and they're trapped in red tape. they're waiting for their marching orders. they're stuck in a crossroads. is that the case? are people ready to work and they just don't have access? doctor? unfortunately, i think we lost our signal, which is not a surprise because as we've said, it is so difficult to stay connected to the island, but we know that the rescue efforts are continuing and we appreciate every doctor on the ground there and appreciate all of you out
there who are trying to show your support. up next, money, power and politics. president trump changing a key rule to help cover the cost of puerto rico's recovery effort. but he doesn't touch another rule dating back nearly a century that may be costing the island big. but first, i want to share another charity helping hurricane victims. global giving is providing food, medicine and long-term care. you can donate to that organization by going to globalgiving.org. kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. i wanted to know where i did my ancestrydna. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american.
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it's my favorite part of the show and one of my favorite guests are here, money, power, politics. one week after hurricane maria ripped through puerto rico, 3.5 million americans are living in darkness and half the population doesn't have drinking water. this as yesterday the trump administration denied a request to waive a law that some argue would help the country get gas, food and other supplies. that policy is known as the jones act, a law that mandates any shipping between -- to u.s. ports be done with a u.s. ship. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin is here, also the founder of deal book for "the new york times." this is a 1920s rockefeller act that protects u.s. rail business. i mean warren buffett at this point, who owns basically all those businesses, can say come on, now, we should do the right thing and help puerto rico. >> well, we should do the right thing to help puerto rico. you don't think he's ultimately going to say that? >> he hasn't said it yet and i know they need food, water and supplies today. >> i think that he's going to say that and i think -- i'm not
actually that worried about it. >> you're not? why do you think it hasn't happened yet? they have done it for texas, they have done it for florida. the delay in supporting puerto rico is astounding, because, remember, those are u.s. citizens. >> there's no question, we need to figure out a way to fix the problem. i'm not defending them. all i'm suggesting is i think that the rail guys and i think washington, i think they're taking their time. i feel like they will get there on this. >> do you think taking their time on a life-and-death situation is a good idea? >> no, i think it's a terrible idea! look, they're all focused on the issue which is taxes, taxes, taxes. i'm not going to seem like i'm -- >> somebody who doesn't want to waste his time is tom price, that's why he keeps flying private. >> yes. go for it. >> the story in politico where it says that tom price, head of health and human services, used government-funded private planes on trips checking for personal and private -- i mean this guy is now in the hundreds of thousands of dollars that he's
spent. if you were a ceo of a company -- >> you'd be fired. >> -- >> and got caught doing this, what would happen? >> you might be fired. again now i'm going to come off like i don't understand what's going on in the world. i think it's terrible that this is happening, if it's happening. i think we have to figure out if it's happening. i think unfortunately, unfortunately that so many of these politicians who have access to planes -- and by the way, ceos who have access to planes, you know, say they have a business trip and then marry it with, you know, lunch with their son. i'm not saying this is right. i think it's a terrible thing. i think we have to figure out how to fix it. but i understand what's going on here. you don't? >> i do -- i do. >> i'm not saying you shouldn't be appalled. >> except what i think is stunning is that president trump standing next to steve bannon on the campaign trail, you globalists, you rich people, you corporate america. what do you think a jet is? >> look, you know, we had the same inner you with steve mnuchin. >> so true. i know.
>> none of these people should be doing this, none of this. this should stop. but the question is who's going to stop it at this point? who's going to stop it? >> who's going to stop it? guess what they are there to do, tax reform. the outline, the nine-page outline is now out. we don't know -- you and i haven't gotten a chance to tick through it just yet, but we have to say this is a real plan. for months we've been saying we had one page and now we have nine. >> we had the napkin before. now we have something that's closer to real in terms of actual language. look, this plan is the beginning. this is like -- in terms of negotiating if you really understand president trump, he likes to anchor the negotiation, so he's trying to -- originally on corporate taxes he wanted to anchor it at 15%. that's not where he's anchoring. he's anchoring at 20%. for the most part -- >> corporate tax rate, 20%, there you go. >> so he's already moved to 20%, which is where we knew they would have to move. boy the way, that's, again, the beginning of the conversation because you can't really make them -- the math add unless you get frankly closer to probably 24% or 25%, possibly even back
to where obama was, which was 28%. people never give president obama credit for trying to bring down the rate. he did want to bring it down to 28%, but for some reason we all seem to forget that. >> president obama also wanted to repatriate all that corporate money that had been sitting overseas and he didn't get approval to do so. >> 100%. a lot -- well, the only thing to say there is a number of these issues are actually quite similar. having said that, there are some pieces in here that are not similar at all. >> like what? >> well, this is a giveaway to the wealthy, right? >> one more time. >> a giveaway to the wealthy. >> how, why? >> it's right here. we're going from 39.6% down to 35% just at the top. >> why would we do that? help me through the rationale behind that. yesterday 51% of americans polled said this is going to be a tax cut for the rich. walk us through, why -- what argument is to be made to go from 39% to 35%? >> you know i don't agree with this, so it's hard for me to make the argument.
>> put yourself in steve mnuchin's loafers. >> i think there's a couple of arguments. one is he would probably say to say, look, if we can get money back into people's pockets, they're going to go and spend it and invest it -- >> except -- andrew, it's been proven. >> you're asking me to say something that i don't agree with. >> people in the highest tax bracket, if they have any more money in their pocket, they keep it in their pockets. people who are living close to the vest go out to dinner and buy a washing machine. >> you want me to channel what steve mnuchin would say. that's what he would say. >> okay. then fine. you walk me through this. doesn't it make significantly more sense, people who are living paycheck to paycheck, if they have more money in their pocket -- >> yes. >> -- they'll actually spending it. >> if a tax plan really was for the middle class in america and those who are hurting the most, that they would be the ones that would have significantly lower rates. in some cases, by the way, they do. but in some cases they don't.
if you really look at some of the itemizations and deductions that go away and you look at some of the child credits they're trying to put back, you can see what they're trying to do from the outside, but in reality it's a different story. it's going to ultimately cost us more. and the flip side of all of this, by the way, is not just may it cost people in the middle class more, certain brackets, but it's going to cost us all more because this doesn't pay for itself. >> let's just look. we know the president is america first, america first. we've got a whole section in here, stopping corporations from shipping jobs and capital overseas. >> yes. >> to prevent companies from shifting profits to tax havens, the framework includes rules to protect u.s. tax base by taxing at a reduced rate on a global basis -- >> territorial tax system. >> yes. >> yes. we've always wanted to have a territorial -- there's nothing wrong with having a territorial tax system. i would advocate that we have a territorial tax system too. the question is how do you actually pay for it? that's the question.
and we don't do that here. >> but isn't that all of it? without getting health care passed, where are you going to find the money? >> you're not. >> so you think this thing is going nowhere? >> nowhere. nowhere fast. you're asking me honestly. you're asking me is this going to go nowhere fast and i'm saying no. first of all, this is not a 2017 project, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your side of the world. i think there is a possibility that in 2018 there is some form of tax cuts. this is not a tax -- it says tax reform. it says tax reform at the top. this isn't tax reform, this is a -- ultimately when this is all said and done, it will be some form of effectively tax cuts, if and when we get there. the question, by the way, isn't about the math in here or the voodoo math, it's whether you believe whether any democrats break with the democratic party and actually decide to sign up -- >> they might. >> no, no. and then where the fault lines are within the republican party on this issue of a plan that effectively is going to cost us
all more when it comes to the debt and the deficit. that is the question. >> this one is different. there are a lot of people in the middle who found president trump morally reprehensible when he was on the campaign trail but they voted with their pocket books. we just had josh just had josh jersey and his district specifically said -- >> that's the question. do they play along or not? >> except the people who voted with their pocketbooks weren't the super rich people being helped. they were the people in the middle who needed a tax break but it doesn't seem to be in here. >> that's why i'm raising the question whether we will really have this. i don't know if anybody thinks that the plan written here is getting passed any time soon. >> like in defense of the plan, it's a starting point. no one ever thinks the first plan will work. >> that's how we begin the conversation. >> but do you believe this is a basis for a framework -- >> of conversation? absolutely. get details where you still need
a magician. david copperfield, there's no math in here. >> i love david copperfield. i like david blayne more, though. does it surprise you, i don't see carried interests mentioned in here. would that have been a no-brainer? >> that's a toughie. on this issue you have the pastor issue. >> walk through what that is for the audience. >> if you have your own company, the question is what your tax rate is going to be and whether you will tax yourself at the individual rate which if you were getting paid at the high end, it's 35%. but a pastor at 25%. also if you're a partnership or private equity firm, the rate is now 25%. which, by the way, is more than what you were paying before because in some cases you were carrying interest at 15%. that's very -- >> we should point out, it is portrayed that it is for small
businesses and llcs. you have law firms, hedge fund managers, president trump has over 500 llcs. >> the problem with the pass through issue is if we are very smart, you will, stephanie ruhle will have stephanie ruhle llc and that's how you pay yourself. if you have a 35% rate, you will turn yourself into a 25% payer. >> but andrew, that remains the name of the game. until you create a completely flat tax, until there is no -- >> there are other ways to reach that. >> for the entire tax departments of corporations, the rich will always benefit. as long as you can finning ale it -- >> sadly, yes. but i'm not an advocate of the flat tax, are you? >> i'm not an advocate, but you can say, stephanie, you can back door it this way. >> that's the problem with the system, fix it. put it on a postcard. >> young andrew and i get to talk about it and not do the
heavy lifting. >> thank you, always fun. next, a seismic scandal in the sports world. we are going from llc to ncaa. allegations of bribery kickbacks at an ncaa school involving four assistant coaches. but first, please pay attention to this. another way to help the victims of hurricane maria in puerto rico. unicef usa is tend on the needs of children who lost everything. you can donate at unicef.org. than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more.
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welcome back. the fbi and sports division are collaborating in a massive bribery case. four coaches were focused on steering top high school players to specific colleges. the coaches took cash to steer athletes to specific managers as well. joining me now by phone is the man who revolutionized the influence of shoe contracts in college basketball recruiting four decades ago, the former executive sonny vicaro. sonny, were you surprised with yesterday's news? you know the players specifically. >> well, i was surprised at the depth of whatever they're doing here. this is a first time in my knowledge that you had four or five sports coaches involve in a particular case. you had a shoe company, you had
the college itself, you had the coaches itself. and by that i say, it all falls under the umbrella of the ncaa, which is an invisible form of mythology in the world you're talking about. so all this happened, you know, at once. we have seen isolated cases, stephanie, of these things happening before. so i was very shocked at how deep it is. and then you have the justice department that is investigating here. this is for real. >> this is a reminder that sports is all about big money. you actually hired the adidas executive involve in this back in the '90s. what is he like? >> he's a wonderful, he has a kid there and i went to his wedding. he was a great high school coach in new york city. and i think he's in the hall of fame. so i have a deep relation with
the family and jimmy. so i was shocked and hurt. and i don't know what -- i as a person could say nothing but good things about him. >> do you think more coaches and colleges will get involved in this as the investigation gets deeper and wider? >> my opinion with no fact to it, stephanie, would be there are a couple more things that are going to happen in this case. and getting familiar with the law and all that sort of stuff in a small way, but this isn't the whole ball of wax, so to speak. the justice department has other things going, i believe, but i don't know that for a fact. there are other names and schools involved, yes. >> this is deep and it's corrupt. sonny, thank you so much for joining me this morning. i really appreciate it. >> i appreciate it also. thank you very much. >> thank you. that wraps us up for this hour.
i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up right now, more news with stephanie jackson. >> stephanie, don't go far because we are talking about republicans in washington waking one a hangover for the establishment. looking around going, did last night really happen? and what does it mean for party leaders after alabama put the so-called outsider and not the president's pick closer to being inside the senate. president trump's trying to act like he never actually backed the other guy, doing a little twitter tweaking, but nothing is ever really deleted online. not even endorsements for luther strange, as the president moves on, not just from strange but from the health care crash and burn turning to taxes. with three months left to try to squeeze some success legislatively out of 2017. we have a first look at this republican tax framework. that's coming up in one minute. but we cannot and will not forget the crisis in puerto rico. more than a million people don't have water to drink. san juan's mayor says they are gasping for air, begging for
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