Skip to main content

tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  October 12, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

4:00 pm
specific exchange, not a vague stream of benefits. both sides filing their responses. in monday if menendez wins on this point, he could narrow the case about bribery to a question about false statements. that would be good news for menendez and the democrats in the senate. but it's bad news for limiting gift to politicians something that most voters support but that the supreme court is making easier and easier. that's our show. "hardball" starts now. west wing rage. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president trump is angry, frustrated and lashing out. his chief of staff said today the president is frustrated by the media and by the congress and according to the washington post the president was lived
4:01 pm
back in july when his advisers suggested that he recertify the iran nuclear deal. one person familiar with that meeting told the post he threw a fit, really furious. today president trump lashed out about puerto rico tweeting electric was a disaster before the hurricanes. we cannot keep fema, the first responders in puerto rico forever. he's talking about going after television networks now who report stories that he doesn't luke. he tweeted today the fake news is going all out. such hatred. he continued his culture crew said against nfl players to take a knee during the national anthem. let's watch. >> so i watched colin kaepernick and i thought it was terrible. and then it got bigger and bigger started mushrooming. you cannot disrespect our country, our flag, our anthem. you cannot do that. >> also in that interview he attacked what he called grand standing republicans as well as the democrats in congress.
4:02 pm
>> the one thing with the democrats, they stay together like glue. they're lousy politicians and their policies are terrible but they do stick together. >> well he started a war of tweets with senator bob corker of course, the chairman of the foreign relations committee labelling him little bob corker. there's a pattern of the wild behavior after the secretary of state called him a mosh ron, trump said they should compare iq tests. and vanity fair reported yesterday that the president recently told an ally i hate everyone in the white house. there are a few exceptions but i hate them. there have been multiple reports this week about the president's deteriorating mood. the washington post spoke to one trump confident who compared the president to a whistling teapot and according to that person, quote, i think we're in pressure corker territory. vanity fair spoke to several people around the president who described him as unstable and unraveling. and the l.a. times said he was engaged or has engaged in shouting matches with his chief
4:03 pm
of staff john kelly. today there was a surprise guest at the white house briefing, general john kelly who rejected the reports today that he was going anywhere. let's watch him. >> although i read it all of the time, pretty consistently, i'm not quitting today. i don't believe -- and i just talked to the president. i don't think i'm being fired today. and i am not so frustrated in this job that i'm thinking of leaving. i would tell you, this is the hardest job i've ever had. this is in my view the most important i've ever had. >> i'm joined right now by gabe sherman, ruth marcus and former republican national committee chair michael stale. gabe, give us a sense of how this whole mushrooming of rage seems to be getting together, coming together. >> yeah. well, chris, you know, this is a president who is completely
4:04 pm
isolated, cut off from his friends, the donor and if new york confidents that he's used to speaking with going back decades with his time at trump tower. and the consequence of that is he is lashing out. advisers, i think you're seeing the leaks represent this. people are troubled by his mental decline and unstable behavior and we've seen tremendous leaks, especially to nbc news about the a idea that he wanted to increase the nuclear stoke piles tenfold and then the leaks i received this week from his inner circle that talked about his mental decline. so i think this is really an inflection point and what bob corker said publicly brought into the forewhat republicans in washington have been talking about privately. and i think really freed up some sources to start talking about what is going on inside this white house. >> well, ruth, it's october now and some of the reporting from us comes from july when the
4:05 pm
pressure cooker mentality was already at work. is this modulating. it is growing in pressure? is the guy getting loopy or what or is it occasionally he does things that show a really bad temper. >> we've had presidents with temper before. >> eisenhower had a bad one. >> bill clinton could turn red and yell at you at a moment's notice if you were a white house staffer. but he also got things accomplished and knew the policy and everything else. i think that this is episodic on trump's part. he goes up and down. but there is a ramping up because look, his first year is coming to a close. what does he have to show for it? a supreme court justice that senator mcconnell, now one of his arch enemies helped pave the way for and that's about it. as the pressure is on, the pressure cooker starts to heat up. >> let's look at the worlds the president lives in.
4:06 pm
he has to deal with congress, no confidence and love for congress. they're a joke, especially the republicans. he has to deal with the media. he hates the media. hates his white house staff. is there any world in which he's confide comfortable. that he's not hating anybody? >> he likes playing golf. >> those worlds are foreign to him. the reality is the world that trump created over the last 35-plus years where we's the center -- >> where you don't have to pay your bills and you can fire people. >> you can do whatever you want. >> who wouldn't like that world. >> there's no back talk. you create that world. >> and the media that's scared to death of you. the business media has to operate on the willingness of the subject to give you an interview. >> new york business media is not the washington press corps, not the "the new york times," not those folks who have been covering a white house for 15, 20 years. and they don't, they don't just
4:07 pm
sort of kowtow to this notion that the president is unhappy with you. okay. so. could you answer the question, please? and that's not something he's used to. >> apparently not. general kelly was asked about the president's frustrations. here's what he said. let's watch. >> it is astounding to me how much is misreported. i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are operating off of contacts, leaks whatever you call them, but i would just offer to you the advice, i would say, you know, maybe develop some better sources. the congress has been frustrating to him. our government is designed to be slow. and it is. his sense, i think as a man who is outside of the washington arena, a businessman, much more of a man of action, his great -- i would say his great
4:08 pm
frustration is the process that he now finds himself. >> gabe, let's cut through the pr here. the only reason we're hearing from the chief of staff is because of the rumors that he's going to quit. so he has the come out and play defense. we've had -- you've had the president come out the other day like fray do in the god father say i'm smart. these are defensive public relations moves. we wouldn't know anything if they weren't scared open felt like they needed to defend themselves. >> on the way to the studio i talked to a person who was close to the president who said of course he sent john kelly out there to shoot down the rumors that the president was lived over the vanity fair piece. so what i think we're seeing this week, and it's thursday and we'll see it through friday, is an effort of damage control to try to change the narrative. but the facts are the facts. and we see his twitter feed and he's lashing out at puerto rico in the middle of a humanitarian
4:09 pm
crisis. this is not a president that is projecting somebody who is confidently and providing confident and steady leadership. >> we had no drama obama. a president who is known for his sinatra like cool. could drive us crazy because he could be aloof. but very calm. he would have beer summits. this president, i do belief likes it. i believe he likes it shaken up. i think he thinks as long as it's 52 card pick up and all of the cards are in the air and nobody knows what anybody else is doing, he's got an advantage. there's commotion, headlines of collusion and grief and anger and friction, he likes it. he doesn't like calm. because calm is something he could establish in an hour. he could simply stop tweeting, stop attacking the groups and live with them. he doesn't want to live with people, it seems to me.
4:10 pm
he likes it. >> he kind of likes it. >> he tweets at 6:30 in the morning to get it going. >> he like to shake things up and keep people off kilter. but he doesn't actually strike me as somebody who is having a lot of fun right now. >> fair enough. >> despite the 73 he shot in golf the other day. >> did he really? is that a bill clinton 73? come on. who's keeping score. president trump has been particularly agitated with the media these past few days after nbc's report that he wanted to increase the nuclear arsenal by tenfold. here's some of what the president has said. let's watch him. >> it's frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write and people should look into it. they're dishonest people. very dishonest people. it's fake media. so much fake news and we have to agree -- do you agree with that, fake news? >> interlocutory there, sean
4:11 pm
hannity. it's like one of these infomercials. how is it going. any way, ben sass, a republican from nebraska responded, mr. president, words spoken by the president of the united states matter. are you recanting of the oath you took on january 250th to preserve, protect and defend the first amendment? michael, there's a true conservative from nebraska, not a wild and crazy guy by any chance saying this president better start paying attention to his oath. >> and there are more voices in the house and senate and around the country that need to come up to that standard. it's one thing to say when you're on your way out the door. it's something very different when you know you're going to be there next year and the year after that. ben sass and others are finding that space to carve out. here's the reality for the gop. this president has redefined the party in such a way that it is probably running into that
4:12 pm
severe where sphere where it's going to be unelectable in a lot of states where it's critical to holding both cham hberchambers. if any value or principle they're espoused or hold on to matters. this president is agnostic to all of that. the fact that bannon is out there saying we will take you out tells you that the president has moth monitors on that and this is a direction of the party that's going to be dangerous. >> it sounds like the president is media shopping. he's got steve ducey in the morning, sean at night. fair enough. he doesn't really use rush limbaugh. so he basically says there's two people. remember the rabbi in the nixon days, nixon had one last friend. it was rabbi. he's got sean. and it seems to work. ruth and gabe, it gets enough information out through tweeting and those two people to reach in the morning, he tweets and he
4:13 pm
dus steve ducey in the morning, the fox and friends and then sean at night for a bigger audience. combining that with his tweeting he's reaching business 30-some percent. he's doing what he wants to do. feeding his army with the words of his message. >> he's communicating with them and i also think it's therapeutic for him. as is the twitter. it helps him let off steam. he's in a safe place in a safe space with fox and friends. and it makes him feel better. one of the things that was striking as i was listening to general kelly is the number of times he used the word frusation. he's not so frustrated that he's leaving. >> he seems pretty cool. >> but the president's frustrations were evident from his behavior but they're also evident from his chief of staff. >> thank you. coming up, the russia investigation. president trump's lawyers may
4:14 pm
offer him up for an interview under oath apparently with special counsel mueller as an attempt to speed up the investigation but it comes to big time risk to a president who has a shaky relationship with the truth. he could purger himself. and it comes as john mccain is asking why the trump administration hasn't acted against russia. and we're going to get to the footsie that the president is playing with the russians. plus, former white house chief of staff leon panetta is coming here to talk about iran and the chaos we're watching inside the trump white house. from his executive order sabotaging the affordable care act, expected announcement to decertify the ie rain deal, president trump continue to do the only things he knows how to do, destroy the legacy brick and mortar of his predecessor brick and mortar. finally, let me finish what happened in the first of this month in las vegas and how nothing has happened since to deal with the gun issue.
4:15 pm
this is "hardball" where the action is. and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $4.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. when food is good and clean and real, it's ok to crave. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be.
4:16 pm
welcome back to hardball. it's our been barely a week since the deadly massacre in las vegas and it's clear that congress isn't going to do anything about it. even though a bipartisan group of representatives introduced a bill to ban bump stocks, the device that the las vegas shooter used to fire his gun at the speed of an automatic weapon, speaker ryan said this should be a regulatory fiction, not a legislative one. let's watch him. >> we're trying to assess why the atf let this go through in the first place. the regulatory fix is the smart ers quickest fix and i would like to know how it happened in the first place. >> this is after the national rifle administration said that they should immediately review whether these devices comply with the law. the fda approved the first bump stock seven years ago and said
4:17 pm
that they don't have the authority to restrict their unlawful use or transfer because the bump stock itself is not a firearm. i'm joined now by connecticut governor malloy. this is so predictable. the house of representatives is not going to do thnothing about the device that allowed that guy to kill 58 people last week. >> the speaker doesn't want to have a vote. he's fearful that if there was a vote people would go on record saying that we should outlaw these devices and he's afraid that would be used against some of his members by wilder and perhaps more crazier gun folks. and so he doesn't want to have his members in that situation. but his solution is not a legal one. clearly atf made a ruling based on the fact that the instrument itself was not illegal and nor did it permanently change the firearm, which was the standard that was applied. so he know what is the outcome
4:18 pm
would be. >> yeah. >> he knows if it comes to congress people will be embarrassed by the vote and he can't go back and have an honest conversation with the nra and simply say hey, nra, you're wrong on this, why don't you join us, why don't we appear to be reasonable, let's get something done to get the monkey off of back and make america safer. but he's too fearful to do it because he know what is the nra will say. if you do that, we will thank your money away. >> do you get a sense they're just passing the buck around here. saying let's go to atf, they'll do it. we know they won't do it so we'll ask them to do it. that will give us a couple of days. when the atf says we're not going to do it, the heat will be off. isn't that what they're up to, waiting for the heat to get off? >> they are, chris. you and i have talked about guns now for five years, ever since we had our own incident almost five years ago at sandy hook school. what i said to you then and i'll
4:19 pm
say it again, this is going to happen in your neighborhood. this is happening time and time again. we don't go days without mass shootings in america. this one is a particularly terrible one because not only were 58 people killed but 500 injured. but you don't think mad men are going to be inspired by this? you don't think mad men are going to say how do we be do better than that? we should stop the sale of these instruments. we should spleed wiplead with p turn them. in. connecticut we've had four years of the most rapid decline of violent crime. that's what you get when you pass smart laws on a bipartisan bas basis. come on nra, republicans in congress and the senate, let's get this done, make america safer. >> well said. thank you, governor. up next, new reporting that trump's lawyers may offer mr. mueller, bob mueller, a meeting with the president. trump's legal team serious?
4:20 pm
are they? would they go through with something like this allowing the president to tef under oath? i don't think so. but they're bluffing, i think. this is "hardball" where the action is. discover card. hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi.
4:21 pm
ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. throughout history, the one meal when we come together, break bread, share our day and connect as a family. [ bloop, clicking ] and connect, as a family. just, uh one second voice guy. [ bloop ] huh? hey? i paused it. bam, family time. so how is everyone? find your awesome with xfinity xfi and change the way you wifi.
4:22 pm
welcome back to hardball. while president trump continue to politicize the investigation into russian meddling, there are new signs out there that the president is still going easy on russia. senator john mccain slammed the administration for not implementing sanctions on russian sha by the october 1 deadline. the delay calls into question the trump administration's commitment to the sanctions bill which was signed into law more than two months ago. it comes as the president said again last night the topic of russia is a democratic excuse for losing the election. >> russia was an excuse used by the democrats when they lost the election. they said they lost the election, they sat in a room and they said, wow, we look bad.
4:23 pm
so look, here's the story. and i think it's so -- this was an excuse by the democrats and people got carried away. >> meanwhile politico is reporting that trump's lawyers are considering a different approach toward special counsel mueller. according to a senior white house official, if mueller doesn't request an interview by thanksgiving, trump's lawyers might force the issue by volunteering trump's time. however, politico notes that trump lawyer john dodd denied that reporting after the story was published. let's find out what's going on right here. i'm joined by a former watergate assistant prosecutor and the author of that report in politico. darren, what do we know? are they prafring the idea of a sitdown under oath with the president of the united states? >> they know they're going to have to testify if bob mueller calls. the supreme court precedent says if the president is called to testify he will. >> like bill clinton did. like a lot of other presidents have before as well. >> what other presidents have
4:24 pm
had to president. >> every other president since water gat except barack obama has had to answer questions by a federal prosecutor. obama, no drama during that time. but george w. bush answered questions, ronald reagan and gerald ford. >> let's talk about what would be the strategy in letting the president sit down with people who know a lot but not everything. >> sure. it's risky for president trump and risky for bob mueller too. it's going to have to happen. i think bob mueller would prefer to wait until his investigation is done. near the end of this information, whether it leads to indictments or just a report to congress or you know complete exoneration. i think he would prefer to wait. trump's people would like to move it along faster. >> could the president be asked under ooet to sit there in front of the special counsel and say to him, in fact one warn him ahead of time, i'm going to ask you for what we call tick tock
4:25 pm
in the media. i want to know where you were when you were a candidate. i want all of your connections with the russians. every time you met with a russian. anybody from russia, anybody speaking for anybody russia. tell me all about those exchanges. can you do that? >> you certainly can do that. and i think the point though is really relevant that it's not so much what he knows, it's how he's acting and what people might think of him. it's much better for mueller to wait until he's actually questioned every other witness because you're only going to get the president once and you want to be able to ask the right questions and phrase them so that you get the right answers. and if he asks them before he knows everything, he may not ask the right question and it could be given the president's loose relationship to the truth, it may be that he won't get the exact right answer that he's hoping to get and that it will be a little bit off and you won't be able to charge him with
4:26 pm
perjury because under the constitution, if it is deliberately misleading but literally true, it's not perjury. >> well aren't witnesses called back all of the time? why wouldn't they say we've got new evidence and need to talk to the president again? >> witnesses are called back multiple times. i think with the president and particularly this president, you might have a problem. but you're right, because the supreme court has made it very clear, as has past practice, that a prosecutor of this sort, special prosecutor can call the president and the president will have to testify. and it's also a bad strategy. president clinton avoided trying to testify. he really fought it. and it looked worse for him than it would have if he would have cooperated. so there is some public perception that might be influenced. right now the president is playing to a very limited audience. he's playing to his own base. and all of the things that he
4:27 pm
says about fake news and everything else are intended to persuade his base, not the people who really want to get out all of the facts. >> i wonder whether the facts have much influence on his base at this point. you write about the risk of the president if he does give the interview, quote, one angry or untrue statement could have def devastating consequences for the president. >> think of bill clinton's testimony in the gararand jury. i'm not saying impeachment proseefrdings are close but this is a record they're building, they will be use. the special prosecutor's report, whatever information he gets will go toward the report that will be ultimately produced. >> i forgot to ask this. jill, if it's established that the president did favors, whether he was helping change the republican platform
4:28 pm
regarding russia and ukraine or he has been slow in the last couple of months in implementing the sanctions against russia, is that all a part potentially of corruption, that he's doing things for help he got in the campaign? >> it certainly can look that way and it certainly provides a motive. there is something going on. we have to lack ook at what is president's motive ffr how he's behave toward russia whether it's the platform or not implementing the sanctions that have been voted by congress right now. all of that makes him look guilty and provides a possible motive if he look at what did the russians do to help him. and if he's not admitting that it's the russians, it seems to me it's a lot of hot air when he keeps saying that it isn't the russians, it might be someone else and this is an excuse for the democrats losing. the investigation of the russian collusion and the following obstruction of justice is absolutely a legitimately criminal investigation.
4:29 pm
it is not an excuse or looking at anything to do with the election. it's looking to do with what president trump's behavior is right now. >> and he has said publicly that he could gun down somebody on 5th avenue and his peeps would stick with him. thank you. up next, white house chief of staff john kelly says he's not quitting and he's not getting fired. but can he get a hand on the chaos inside the trump administration? charming fellow but a ridiculously important job. i don't know if it's a doable job. leon panetta is coming here to talk about the job this guy is doing. this is "hardball" where the action is. it's not the magic-wand kind. it's the rfid-collar-and- internet of things-kind we created with chitale dairy. so every cow can let farmers know how she feels and what she needs to be healthier- (phone vibrates) all with a simple text. tah-dah.
4:30 pm
magic can't make digital transformation happen. but we can. that's the power of vmware, part of dell technologies. now that we have your attention... capri sun has four updated drinks. now with only the good stuff. do you know how to use those? nope. get those kids some new capri sun! ...has grown into an enterprise. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one.
4:31 pm
now, i'm earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. what's in your wallet? he's a nascar champion who's she's a world-class swimmer who's stared down the best in her sport. but for both of them, the most challenging opponent was... pe blood clots in my lung. it was really scary. a dvt in my leg. i had to learn all i could to help protect myself. my doctor and i choose xarelto® xarelto®... to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner... ...that's proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. here's how xarelto works. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least six blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective... ...targeting just one critical factor, interacting with less of your body's natural blood-clotting function. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor as this may increase risk of blood clots.
4:32 pm
while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you've had spinal anesthesia, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle-related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures and before starting xarelto® about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. you've got to learn all you can... help protect yourself from dvt and pe blood clots. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. there's more to know.
4:33 pm
hereby's what's happening. at least 29 people have died in wildfires burning in northern california and officials say the death toll is likely to surge. more than 8,000 firefighters are battling the infernos which are now the state's deadliest on record. an american woman, her canadian woman and three children are free tonight five years after being taken hostage in afghanistan. pakistan's military carried out the rescue of the family all bo. now back to "hardball." general kelly has done an incredible job. these are people, they know how to do it. but they have to be allowed to
4:34 pm
do it. >> welcome back to hardball. that was of course president trump in this case praising his chief of staff john kelly. just yesterday trump pushed back on reports of chaos inside the white house this morning writing on twitter, the fake news is going all out in order to demean and denigrate. the vanity fair piece adds that chief of staff john kelly is miserable in his job and remaining out of a sense of duty to keep trump from making a disastrous decision. kelly made a surprise appearance at the white house briefing today. let's watch. >> so unless things change, i'm not quitting, i'm not getting fired and i don't think i'll fire anyone tomorrow. this is hard, hard work, john, and my only frustration with all due respect to everyone in the room is when i come to work in the morning and read about things i allegedly said or things that mr. trump allegedly said or people who were going to
4:35 pm
be fired or whatever and it's just not true. that's my frustration. i mean no disrespect to y'all. >> well that was nice. for more i'm joined by leon panetta. secretary of defense for president obama. held every major position in the government short of president himself. thank you, mr. secretary. have you talked to mr. kelly, general kelly who you knew as general kelly, recently? >> i haven't talked to genre cently. but talked to him before he took that job and he asked me about the important steps that he would have to take. he has taken a lot of important steps in developing a chain of command and providing better discipline there in establishing some kind of order with regards to policy making. i think his biggest issue is he himself will admit, is the challenge of dealing with
4:36 pm
president trump who is just somebody who doesn't accept discipline very easily. >> what do you make of the facial expressions of general kelly during the press conferences and speeches by the president. he looks like he's in pain. sometimes he puts his hand over his face and leans down like he's in purgatory. he can't -- can he control the president who he works for? is that doable? >> well, i think he's got an impossible job to try to do that. but look, he's a marine first and foremost. the to understand john kelly, you to understand that as a marine he was very dedicated to the country, dedicated to the mission, wants to support whoever is commander in chief and try to do the best job that he can. so yeah, when he doesn't have a sense of control about what's happening, wakes up in the morning and gets a bunch of tweets from the president that nobody is prepared for were i'm
4:37 pm
sure that has to be aggravating for the poor guy. >> why do you think -- here's an area that you know mitch about, negotiations between the legislative and the executive. it seems to me that trump is playing -- he has a very limited hand right now. he has two 8s or something in his hand. he probably won't get anything done this year but if he does it's only because he changes his pattern of behavior. why don't way sit down over a weekend and instead of going and playing golf, just sit somewhere, i don't care whether it's mar-a-lago or the west wing, sit down with chuck schumer and sit down with nancy pelosi, the leader of the republican party, mitch mcconnell, and speaker ryan antry to work out some deal on reducing corporate taxes or brings taxes from abroad back home that people are hiding overseas. why doesn't he try to work out
4:38 pm
something? because it looks like he's going to get nothing. >> chris, you and i come from a tradition where the people we work for -- and when i was in the congress, there was a willingness of both republicans and democrats, tip o'neill, bob michael, willing to work together to try to find solution to the problems facing this country. the biggest challenge for president trump is that he does not seem to have the ability to understand what goes into the governing process. and the ability to sit down with both sides in a room, in a trusting relationship, exchange views and try to come up with an approach. and the fact is, every president, including this president, is going to be tested by what he is able to do or not do for the country. and right now this president has a lousy record when it comes to dealing with the legislation on
4:39 pm
capitol hill. >> what do you think of -- you know, i'm surrounded by progressives a lot of my days here, my family and people i know, they're all around me and i listen to them and i hear it on the air and i hear people calling me saying, go after the 25th amendment and say he's unfit for office or impeach the guy and i think than so pelosi have told people you don't have an impeachment offense. and people talking about the 25th amendment as if the president is unfit to serve every day. he's in a coma. that's what the 25th amendment is about, somebody in a coma. all they can do is use the techniques. what do you think about the president? do you think he should be impeached, removed from office for unfitness? >> no. look. i think to jump into that arena is going to hurt everybody involved. and the end result is not going
4:40 pm
to produce what somebody may be after. in this situation where you're dealing with a very unpredictable and erratic president, i think the most important thing you need to do is to allow our system of checks and balances to work in order to contain what the president can accomplish in terms of doing something that might really get the country in trouble. so you need a good staff, and he's got a good national security team to try to hopefully keep him in the right place. you need to have leadership in the congress, both republicans and democrats who are willing to pass legislation that will ensure that this country stays in the right direction, despite what the president may or may not want. you have the courts and in the end you have voters who have to exercise the right to vote. that's the way we keep our democracy on the right track. >> the buck stops with us. thank you so much. i love the way you said that.
4:41 pm
former secretary for congressman, leon panetta of california. up next, president trump signed an executive order to weaken obamacare. tomorrow he's expected to decertify the iran deal. he's fixated on destroying anything obama did in his legacy. we're going to get to that. you're watching "hardball." jimmy's gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors. yup, he's gone noseblind. he thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this...
4:42 pm
luckily for all your hard-to-wash fabrics... ...there's febreze fabric refresher. febreze doesn't just mask, it eliminates odors you've... ...gone noseblind to. and try febreze unstopables for fabric. with up to twice the fresh scent power, you'll want to try it... ...again and again and maybe just one more time. indulge in irresistible freshness. febreze unstopables. breathe happy. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... ...isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... ...with reduced redness,... ...thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has... requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased... ...risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have... ...a history of depression...
4:43 pm
...or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla... ...reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper... ...respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take... ...and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you.
4:44 pm
welcome back to hardball. after almost a year in office president trump is still without any significant legislative wins. frustrated by his losses, trump has turned his attention to destroying president obama's achievements. don't you notice? in june he withdrew from the paris climate accord. today sabotaging obamacare, tomorrow killing the iran deal. for more i'm joined by the round table tonight.
4:45 pm
you know, i want to start with you anita and i think there is a pattern here. scorched earth. he doesn't like obama in the history books. he wants to rip him out of it. >> i agree and i think that every president thinks that about the predecessor. >> really? >> yeah. >> eisenhower came in and -- >> president obama came in and wanted to get rid of everything george bush did. >> the iraq war. he kept the iraq war going. >> i think there's a lot of things that he wants to get rid of. it's both policy and personal y personality. i think obama gets under his skin a little bit. >> i remember the white house correspondent's dinner. i think we were all there watching the president skewer this guy, making fun of his business career. >> and his political
4:46 pm
aspirations. the ridiculous idea that he might be president one day. >> and this was before trump announced. >> i think trump doesn't forget a slight. i'm sure he remembers that conversation. he didn't even pretend to laugh. the thing you're supposed to do is to pretend you can takehumor. trump did not do that night. previous presidents come in and want to do things differently than the guy who was in before them. but president trump has not done other things. so his legacy so far is almost entirely a negative legacy. it's not as though he's passed the things that he talked about his signature issues during the campaign. >> usually presidents get something done during the first year, something. there's been no effort, no projection, no trajectory here. doesn't look like he's going to get health care, doesn't look like he's going to get a tax bill at this point and it doesn't look like he's got anything on immigration coming.
4:47 pm
what? >> part of the reason for that is trump made a decision early on in his presidency to begin with health care which was basically undoing something that obama did rather than try to start with something like infrastructure or tax cuts or immigration where he might be able to get some bipartisan support and be something more proactively. and i think susan and anita are exactly right. president trump, his instinct is always anything that has to do with obama is negative, the worst in history. and you hear that rhetorically when he talks about iran deal or paris accord. >> what is on his bucket list as president? he really wants to say i got this done? >> he wants health care, right? >> does he really care? >> well, i think his number one thing that he cares about is tax reform. so he really does want that. but his problem is he gives a speech last night or yesterday about it but then he'll spend a week doing something else and get off topic and talk about puerto rico and criticize bob
4:48 pm
corker and then he'll come back to it. it's not like he's putting all of his energy on it. but he has done a couple of things. things that we don't hear much about. he's gotten rid of a lot of regulation. his base loves that. he's faster than obama on appointing judicial judges. he's done stuff that are under the radar but you're right, not a big signature accomplishment >> what does he care about. all businessmen and women want lower taxes. >> i don't think he cares so much about any of these issues. i think he cares about an attitude of disruption. i think his bucket list is let's stir things up, let's change things. and it's less what follows or what policy follows. >> and he cares most of all about seen as a winner. he wants wins, victorievictorie wants legislation that he can sign like that executive order that he signed in the white house.
4:49 pm
he likes those events like that's a sense of accomplishment. he's proving the establishment wrong. >> watch him walking to the helicopter with his beautiful wife. watch how he struts. you've got it. he wants to be a guy who struts. >> and who is strong and who wins. next come scoops you might be talking about tomorrow. this is "hardball." we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. ltry align probiotic.n your digestive system? for a non-stop, sweet treat goodness, hold on to your tiara kind of day. get 24/7 digestive support, with align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand.
4:50 pm
also in kids chewables. no, i'm scheduling time to go to the bank to get a mortgage. ugh, you're using a vacation day to go to the bank? i know, right? just go to lendingtree dot com. get up to five loan offers to compare side by side for free. wow, that's great. wait, how did you get in my kitchen? oh, i followed a raccoon in through your doggie door. [gasps] get a better mortgage on your schedule. not the bank's. lendingtree. when banks compete, you win. just think of 'em as a big cat. with rabies. i mentioned president trump's tweet this morning was
4:51 pm
about puerto rico. "we cannot keep fema, the military and the first responders who have been amazing under the most difficult circumstances in puerto rico forever." now san juan mayor carmen you'll yen cruz is responding to president trump. in a statement to msnbc she says, your tweets and comments just show desperation and underscore the inadequacy of your government's response to this humanitarian crisis. it is not that you do not get it, it is that you are incapable of empathy, and frankly simply cannot get the general done." she called on americans to let this president know we will not be left to die. strong words. you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
4:52 pm
4:53 pm
we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. susan, tell me something i don't know. >> left-wing candidates are lining up to chaldean feinstein with her decision to run for another term. kevin de leon, state senate president, tom stier, the billionaire environmentalist. she has a secret weapon, the jungle primary, which means she
4:54 pm
could come in second to a liberal, more liberal democrat in the california primary, she still makes the runoff and beat them we being able to attract more vote in the middle and on the right and that is exactly what a jungle primary is designed to do. >> let's hope so. >> so we all know president trump loves a good photo op. when he goes to asia next month the question inside the white house is whether he's going to go for the ultimate photo op, a visit to the demilitarized zone between south korea and north korea. there's a lot of talk he might do it and stare straight into north korea. >> what do you think of that? >> i think he would love to do it. >> is it good for safety? >> it's a dangerous place to be. >> someone might want to do something. >> he lives on the edge, donald trump. >> i'm going to tell you a tidbit someone told me, somebody close to the president -- >> a big enough tidbit for us? >> a fun fact. we think when the president's tweeting something that it's something he's seen on tv or in realtime, and this person told me. actually, it's whoever walks
4:55 pm
into the oval office, brings up something that might have happened three months ago, bob corker might have said something three months ago but someone brings it up again and there he goes on twitter again, it could be anything in the world. >> fickle man. when we return, what happened the first of this month in las vegas, remember that? 58 people killed. you're watching "hardball." (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c, but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. non-insulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill. (avo) and for people with type 2 diabetes treating cardiovascular disease, victoza® is now approved to lower the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. and while it isn't for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. (avo) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes
4:56 pm
or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. stop taking victoza® and get medical help right away if you get symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. so, stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. tell your doctor your medical history. gallbladder problems have happened in some people. tell your doctor right away if you get symptoms. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. ask your doctor about victoza®.
4:57 pm
are made with smarttrack®igners material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. see how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50% faster today at
4:58 pm
let me finish with what happened the first of this on month in las vegas, the 58 people gunned down by a man using a bump stock, a device that converts a semiautomatic rifle into a tommy gun capable of spitting out to 800 bullets a minute. i specced when tragedy struck and we awe what happened and how the gun lobby would win again and nothing would be done about
4:59 pm
this latest escalation in kill power, this device that would allow anyone no matter how undemeanted or how untrained to set up a tripod and execute people by the dozens. the speaker of the house declared he was not going to consider a ban on the bump stock, that he was going to leave to it federal regulators to do something about the device, federal regulate hoarse made clear seven years ago they went going to touch it. usually the rabbits in congress wait for till the heat is off. this time ten days before declaring full retreat. thank you, mr. speaker, for giving us early washing you weren't going to do a thing about las vegas, just like sandy hook, columbine, san bernardino, rose burg, why go on? jack kennedy as killed about 8 mail-order rifle. it makes little different how a killer gets his gun or what conditions he's in. all that matters is he hits his
5:00 pm
target and congress does nothing to stop the next killer getting his, whether it's a school room, a movie theater, a country music concert or one of their fellow politicians. guns don't scare politicians, only the gun lobby does. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> we will not rest until that job is done. >> three weeks into the dissals tear in puerto rico, why is the president now threatening to pull federal support? >> we will be there all the time to help puerto rico recover. plus -- >> where's john kelly? stand up, john. >> a "unraveling president" sends his chief of staff to go after the media. >> one of his frustrations is you. maybe develop in better sources. then -- >> mr. president, you need to sign it. >> understanding the effects of the president's executive order to undermine obamacare. and facebook meets the press.