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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  December 4, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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two losses on the season. i don't care about any of it. my calendar is for cactus bowl in arizona, ucla and my beloved kansas city wildcats. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. good evening. >> wish you luck on all the games. about to do this filing from bob mueller. news never stops. >> take it away. breaking news, bob mueller filing papers we just got in newsroom, approach signed by bob mueller is a request to cancel paul manafort's bail deal. reason, prosecutors allege as recently as thursday of last week, before the flynn came out. say paul manafort was working directly with a russian in
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russia with ties to russian intelligence service. just got that. manafort was trying to secretly ghost write op-ed to defend his past work in ukraine. reading this filing from mueller, says that paul manafort was working with long time russian colleague currently based in russia and assessed to have ties to a russian intelligence service. this is a breaking story. going to speak to senator sheldon whitehouse about this and other items. but former ethics chief richard painter. i just got this as i know you did. your view of what bob mueller is saying in this document, which is signed by him. not all documents are. and whether you see this as grounds to adjust paul manafort's bail agreement. >> i secertainly do see it as grounds, put him back in jail or
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house arrest. when judge says don't hang out with russian intelligence officials during your time out on bail, you obey the judge. we're a country with rule of law here. these people don't seem to understand that this business of collaborating with russian agents is serious. it's a serious threat to our democracy this happened last year. mueller team takes it seriously. courts will. attorney general joked about it and now paul manafort seems to think his bail conditions aren't serious. i think it's back to the slammer for him. maybe at some point these people will figure out we're not going to tolerate people collaborating with russian agents to destabilize our country or cover up past crimes or anything else. >> i have to tell you, i know folks get tired of this,
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breaking news, so much news these days but i'm flabbergasted at allegation here in court paper that paul manafort would as recently as late last week still be carrying on contact with official with alleged ties to russian intel about campaigns, for paul manafort's self-interest seems odd. going to read more of this and get analysis. judges often tell parties not to try their cases in the press. this new filing from mueller refers to what the judge had previously said. at first appearance before this court with manafort present, the judge admonished the parties not to try the case in the press and said quote this is a criminal trial, not a public relations campaign. and mueller goes on to say manafort through his lawyer made statements to the press after initial appearance and court
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gave the parties opportunity to object to that order which it says he didn't do. even if not with russian part of what mueller is arguing is manafort could be in violation of doing out of court arguing of the case that the judge has said should only happen in korcourt. >> i think that's what judge would prefer and best thing to do. there are first amendment rights that criminal defendants have if they want to strenuously object to the charge in public arena, it's tough to tell them not to do that. but no first amendment right to collaborate with russian agents and if court tells you not to hang around with the russians, court means business and should go back to the slammer if he doesn't get that. first amendment right to say what he wants but not hang out with russian agents who have
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been conducting illegal activities in the united states and he's right in the middle of it. >> and footnote on the second page, bob mueller saying he doesn't want to release the underlying material that manafort was allegedly working on with the russian but willing to submit under seal to the court. i'd love to have you back richard. but reset for folks, get back to this breaking news. there is wider problems hitting trump white house on this case. first full work day sense the former white house aide pled guilty in this probe and been in self-defense mode, some of the damage self-inflicted. white house now claiming that tweet on trump's twitter account, i had to fire general flynn because he lied to vp and
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fbi. saying it's not made by the president. if he did know that flynn lied to fbi as tweet admits, trump could be in more trouble. if you hamper investigation into a crime you have exposure for obstruction. >> did his own tweet strengthen a potential obstruction of justice case against him? >> there is a credible case of obstruction of justice. >> that's obstruction of justice. >> faced with that pressure. saying this rookie mistake of a tweet was made by an experienced criminal lawyer. john dowd says he wrote the tweet. could be a huge break. donald trump's tweets a part of his style and controversy but the white house suggesting this lawyer is the ghost writer behind the tweets. maybe the ted sorenson to trump's jfk or robert hunter to
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trump's jerry garcia. is that what is going on all this time? spoiler. no. white house defense, i'm obligated to say what they say, then look at it. this one tweet that got trump in trouble and is legally counterproductive is the one time he tweeted for the president. it was only one. my last and i'm out of the business. suggests that if trump gets in trouble for another tweet down the road won't be ghost writing. dowd says he sent to staffer to post online. as reporters ask, is there e-mail to show dowd drafted the tweet? then he said he dictated it to his staffer. >> does that happen a lot, other people tweet for the president? >> yes -- well yes. in terms of lawyers. lawyers are the ones that
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understand how to put those tweets together. i was with the president on saturday, all day frankly. and i know that what mr. dowd says is correct. that he says is that he put it together and sent it to our director of social media. >> there you have it. bob mueller can find out if this is what happened, subpoena digital and phone records to see who was in touch when a tweet that appeared to admit someone knew about a crime, when it went out. one more thing then the senator. may all feel very 2017 and another parsing, piffling political media debate over authorship of a tweet. who cares you might ask. but it's more than that. message matters more than the medium. message in this famously orphaned tweet is admission, tell, statement so damning that even this president, who prides
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himself on never apologizing, even this president had to run from his own words, if they were his words. with me now senator sheldon whitehouse on the judiciary committee. comment first on the tweet. who wrote it, does it matter? >> i think it may matter. certainly will matter if dowd was not telling the truth. if this was a story cooked up to try to give president trump a little cover from what might be seen as an admission. if that's the case, it's very damaging for dowd and for the white house legal operation because now they seem to be in the midst of telling lies themselves in order to cover things up. that's not a good place for a lawyer to be. >> uh-huh. senator, does it strike you as weird that the one time this guy ever wrote a tweet is this time that the tweet was so
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controversial? >> seems improbable. and what i understand, went back afterwards and confirmed tweet was accurate, that was president's understanding. all over both sides of this in addition to the oddness of it. >> and odd is what journalists and careful former prosecutors like yourself can do before the evidence comes in. >> but as you said, bob mueller has all the tools to figure it out. >> which again makes it odd to disemball about if one wore dissembling. broke so late in the day, what does it say to you that bob mueller is going to these lengths to potentially pull manafort's bail deal and say as we've been reporting tonight that manafort was ghost writing
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material, defendant's political work in ukraine as recently as thursday with person in russia with ties to intelligence services? >> going to be interesting conversations between manafort and his lawyer, either went off on a tear without telling his lawyer and did this slap in the face to both the court and the prosecution, which -- it's not good to slap the court and prosecution in the face when you're under indictment. this is a really dumb move by manafort. if he did it without lawyer's advice, going to be a tough conversation with the lawyer. if he did with lawyer's advice going to be a tough conversation between the lawyer and the court. this has not been a good day for paul manafort. and the prosecution has done exactly the responsible thing here. you just don't mess around with a court order. you don't mess around with what you have represented to the court you will do.
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to both go back and violate the contact with the press understanding and go back to be in touch with russians again, for lord's sake, it's almost funny except it's so bizarre. >> not funny ha-ha, but funny odd. so much going on, easy to get distracted on the next thing. yet friday, december 1st, seemed like significant development to have former national security adviser pleading guilty and cooperating with the mueller probe. what is important going forward on the issues? >> i'm not close to the investigation obviously, i have to be careful about what i say. two things that come to mind, flynn was around during the trump campaign's efforts to remove the tough ukraine language from the republican
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party platform. and that could be a real quid pro quo. and create all sorts of potential liabilities when that gets drilled into if it turns out it goes back to russia. flynn going about that could open that can of worms up quite a lot. flynn also has potentially the ability to provide some evidence about the president's state of mind when he's been involved in some activities that could be construed as obstruction of justice. for instance, the president could be construed as having obstructed justice when he tweeted all those things about comey being a liar. what you need to connect obstruction of justice to that conduct is some evidence it was president's intent to influence the grand jurors and cause the grand jurors before whom mueller or others are presenting the
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case they should disbelieve comey when he comes before them as a witness. very simple piece of evidence from flynn could take some of the public statements that trump has made and turn them into compelling evidence of obstruction of justice. >> and you're explaining the background context of that as key part of the legal analysis any prosecutor would do. >> intent is the key. if you can fill in intent, you can make what might seem to be fairly minor public statements turn into something that will support a count in an indictment. >> got it. senator whitehouse, always learn from you, thanks for being here. >> great to be here. >> "wall street journal" and "daily beast." i start with you shelby. scooby doo moments where you shake your head. >> amazing thing about all of this, might be impossible to
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connect all the dots had the president not been tweeting and talking to the press the past year. created this massive paper trail and every time i talk to legal experts, that's the thing that blows everyone's mind. puts it all out there in the public on the record. and say with doubt as well. don't know who tweeted that obviously, something mueller will look into but may have waived attorney/client privilege in talking to the press. creates another can of worms. creates problems that beeline to brand new strands of inquiry. so much to talk about. but president is out trying to spin this and narrative continues to shift, also noteworthy. he's saying no collusion but he and his lawyers also saying that the president can't obstruct justice. heard this crazy thing today. narrative is shifting and doesn't look good for the president. >> betsy, all sorts of dreams,
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reporters, street dreams and prosecutor dreams. joyce vance, lot of viewers may recognize as former obama prosecutor. twitter is every prosecutor's dream. is that what you're seeing? what are your sources saying? >> for the record, i reached manafort spokesman for comment on the mueller documents, officially no comment. given they're under a gag order. spent a significant amount of time chatting with the member of the president's legal team, i can tell you their defense of the tweet, i'm reporter, not arguing or cosigning but they're explaining that what we can expect to hear from the legal team is following. sally yeats told don mcgaun, senior white house counsel that in the same was a vice president pence. but also going to say until the
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mueller charges came down nobody from federal law enforcement space told the president himself that flynn actually had a legal problem under 1001, the federal law that bars someone from legally lying to federal agents. sounds like splitting a hair. but that's the thing the lawyers are saying that here's why the way he handled the incident may not open him up to issues. and argue as they have already that since the president is head of federal law enforcement can't be held guilty for obstructing justice because he's the head. that's the argument they're going to make. >> we'll get there. shelby, you're on tweet storm. john dowd, big-time 76-year-old twitter user. fair game. >> don't hate the player, hate the game.
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>> says look, experienced criminal defense attorney like dowd would know that it's proper to say that flynn pleaded guilty, not pled guilty. it's remarkable, can't say we know this to be false but we just know it to look absurd. >> and no lawyer would ever want their client tweeting about open investigation, much less in these hostile ways. doesn't square. great point about pleaded. something we've heard. but also a major violation on dowd's part, ethics violation, if he's lying about the situation. >> which is why so many things -- had to scramble at top of the show because of all the news. would like you both to come back. coming up, breaking news on the roy moore controversial, "washington post" says woman coming forward with new evidence of contacts with moore at 17 years old. >> i'm very sad he's decided to
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say he doesn't know me. i now know for sure he's a liar. also deep dives into the claims from trump's lawyer you can't be guilty of obstruction if you're the president. legal breakdown next. inside bob mueller's headquarters, reporting on how he questions witnesses and why he keeps asking about jared kushner. "the beat" on msnbc. our bond is fraying. how do we get back to "us"? the y fills the gaps. and bridges our divides. donate to your local y today. because where there's a y, there's an us.
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mr. donahue. >> aye. >> mr. brooks. >> aye. >> mr. casten mire. >> aye. >> the house judiciary committee has just approved its first article of impeachment against president nixon. >> a lot of breaking news, begin look the athat vote, impeachment process against richard nixon captivating the nation.
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first and only time led president to leave office early. nixon resigned before trial. first article is thrust back in the news because of conduct and statements by trump's own lawyers. it undercuts a new controversial argument from trump lawyer john dowd that it's legally quote impossible for a president to obstruct justice. in fact that article i against nixon included obstruction. repeat that historical fact which has now become news. democratic congress then held that presidents can commit obstruction and can be impeachable. another congress run by republicans that held presidents can commit obstruction and alleged it that time against bill clinton. imagine the heads spinning as trump's lawyer, already in the
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spotlight for tweetgate thing claimed that quote, the president cannot obstruct justice because he's the chief law enforcement officer of the united states. not a defense saying trump didn't obstruct justice, would be a blank check saying he can obstruct is anytime he wants because the president can't commit that crime. that argument has a terrible track record, most famously advanced by only president forced from office whose impeachment articles included obstruction. >> what in a sense you're saying is there are certain situations and houston planner, that part of it one of them, where the president can decide it's in the best interests of the nation or something and do something illegal? >> when the president does it, that means it is not illegal. >> hmm. nixon's view. not shared by congress that began the process to remove him
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nor our constitution which explicitly discusses high crimes by president on the premise that presidents can commit high crimes. some of the constitution is complicated, not that part. none of this i'm saying tonight is evidence that donald trump did commit obstruction, that is what mueller is investigating, hasn't reached a conclusion or provided public evidence to be tested in adversarial process. everyone gets process and process matters. but what i am reporting and history is evidenced, that a president can commit obstruction just like can commit other crimes and be held accountable. no court has held otherwise. main place you hear it is from paid lawyers and defenders on tv. >> constitution authorizes president to tell the director of the fbi to to investigate,
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prosecute and not prosecute. >> can't have obstruction of justice when the president exercises constitutional authority. >> you can't charge a president with obstruction of justice br executing constitutional power by firing comey. >> can be hard to separate this. and many people who love donald trump want to believe he's only president who doesn't have to follow the law. but you can find plenty of republicans on record saying that not only president can commit obstruction but when it happens, it's grounds for removal from office. >> president committed serious crimes. obstruction of justice from the president is high crimes and misdemeanors. >> systematic obstruction of justice and effort to avoid the truth we've ever seen. >> he's obstructed justice and deserves to be removed from office. >> joined by law professor and
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richard painter. burt. obstruction, a thing a president can do? >> of course. there are hard issues in the constitution, this is not one. no person is above the law, including the president. i think the president's defenders are making logical mistake. saying because he's in charge of a process he can't subvert it. but of course you can be in charge of something and make sure it doesn't work properly. that's exactly what obstruction of justice charge would be if it were proved. it's a high bar to prove it. >> high bar. richard painter. >> it's quite clear that the president it obstruct justice, just like anybody else. the president is not above the law. we've heard this from this president several times. he said he cannot -- the president cannot have financial conflicts of interest, that's wrong too.
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and now he or his lawyers are saying the president cannot commit obstruction of justice. just flat-out run. that's how dictatorship or monarchy works where the king is law and can't obstruct the law because the king is the law. last time that was applicable in this part of the world was 1776. we have a constitution for a reason. and president nixon tried that argument and out he went. and president trump, i have to say, is much further down the road of obstruction of justice and other illegal activities than president nixon ever went. it is a true embarrassment to the united states congress that the house judiciary and senate judiciary committees are not holding hearings. nowhere near where they ought to be. and arguments are ridiculous. >> lawyers are known to throw
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out a broader set of arguments than their client needs. but i wonder if you think it's a tell or sign that a few days out from guilty plea by former national security adviser of the united states, trump's lawyers not distancing themselves from him or saying this overzealous or other things but making this nixonian and baseless claim about the constitution. >> i think they're still viewing it as political issue. i don't think they see it as issue in which he's in jeopardy of being indicted. may see it down the road as more evidence comes out. but they're still playing this as conversation to the american people and they think they can sell this to enough people out there to say what is this a big deal about? of course he can't be guilty. then get on and start thinking about something else and won't pay attention. but it's very important to realize he can be guilty.
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this is a diversionary tactic. >> do you think it's a tell they may believe flynn may know or say things about the obstruction charge? >> of course. they're in a position where flynn may have flipped, not in fear but anger. he devoted himself to trump and trump cut him loose, wouldn't pay legal fees, promise him a part, protect his kid. flynn has flipped and i think the white house and president's lawyers are very nervous about what an angry man can say in a situation like that. >> wow. burt newburn and richard painter, interesting stuff. up next, bob mueller's interview rooms, witnesses speaking about why asked so many questions about jared kushner and mueller's quote sphinx-like presence in some of the grilg. and new evidence from moore
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here's a telling moment. first thing donald trump said this morning. >> hillary clinton lied many times to the fbi, nothing happened to her. flynn lied and they destroyed his life. i think it's a shame. >> note two attacks packed in there. clinton, found not to have lied to authorities, but also on the fbi. under trump's conspiracy theory fbi agents would be targeting flynn and not clinton, building on unusual tack this weekend that fbi's reputation in at that timers, facing rebuttal from sally yates, jim comey and organization representing fbi agents said that sitting president is being a liar. fbi agents dedicated to mission, suggesting otherwise, simply
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false. context is blatant, the president picking a fight on agents hot. breached white house faster rate. indictments or plea deals of top aides, last eight presidencies, none seen a top aide indicted for pleading to felony in first year. breaking a record. trump's white house has more felonies than obama's eight years. in that time no top aide indicted for felony. former assistant director for intel at fbi and former federal prosecutor and counsel to assistant attorney general. frank, don't want to start by asking bait question, donald trump is attacking the fbi, what is your response. i want you to put this in larger context for us how the white house and president's responses seem to suggest that perhaps the
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fbi really is on to something. >> i think that's the larger issue here. karl sandburg said when the facts are against you, argue the law, when the law is against you, argue the facts. when the facts and law are against you, pound the table and yell loudly. president trump is now yelling loudly at the fbi. but it's america's fbi, america's department of justice. heard a lot about russia's desire to cause us to question our system of law and agencies, we don't need russia to do it when president of the united states is doing it himself. >> james, i want to be fair, white house paranoia in politico, prompting anxiety, people could be wearing wires to secretly record communications and want to be clear on the news not citing it because there's indication that people are wearing wires, lot of reasons as
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you know that bob mueller is probably not doing that willy nilly but what is state of mind in the white house people are talking about that? >> reflects the progress the special counsel has made, paul manafort and his assistant, gates. secured two guilty pleas, george papadopoulos and michael flynn. all with cooperation clauses. fact not lost on those inside and outside of the administration who may be approached by the special counsel. >> and james, as former prosecutor, when is the last time you were working on money laundering, foreign agents registration act, russian/ukraine case and indicted individual was caught making outreach to someone linked to russian intel? >> never had that opportunity
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but will say as former prosecutor, that presents well an opportunity for the special counsel to put that evidence and information before the judge at early stage in the proceedings. and i can imagine if anything will give the prosecution team a leg up in that matter. >> frank, isn't it incredibly negative for paul manafort? what do you think is the story here? >> i just read bob mueller's filing with the court today to get manafort back under house arrest. what struck me, phrase that manafort is dealing with a long-time associate who is affiliated with the russian intelligence service. not a new thing. back to realizing that manafort was in bed with russian intelligence service and has been for some time. it's really troubling. >> yeah. you're referencing this point again on page two. don't mean to be deep in the docs but you said it frank,
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manafort worked on the draft with a quote long-time russian colleague of manaforts who is currently in russia with ties to russian intelligence service. you can't make it up. when we get the response from manafort we'll report that as well. thank you both. ahead, witnesses who face robert mueller's investigations. and former top staffer to mueller and jim comey at fbi next. yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! i wish my insurance company had that... wait! hold it... hold it boys... there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother? hey, where's charlie? charlie?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance.
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here's a real question. do you ever wonder what it is like when bob mueller, a doj employee, might run into his own colleagues at trump's doj? the people he's investigating. do small talk with rosenstein who is overseeing the probe and also a witness because he huddled with trump for firing comey for reasons that ultimately contradicted what trump said on live tv which led to rosenstein appointing mueller? bob mueller assures only run-ins happen when he wants them to. in secure building outside justice. if you've heard the term about scif, sensitive compartmented information facility, that's what mueller has. what's it like in there?
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very few people get to know, but "washington post" did anonymous reporting with quotes from people, about two dozen in the mueller room, trump aides facing investigators, witnesses in windowless conference room with teams rotating in and spend up to eight hours with one witness. mueller himself will enter at times, a sphinx-like presence who sits quietly along the wall. peek into the process. interviews? "post" reports that how foreign government officials and their emissaries contacted trump officials, asking whether flynn recommended specific foreign policy meetings to aides including kushner and how kushner got on the calendar and discussions about flynn and kushner. known to be aggressive. may also look at mcfarland.
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reported on the day that president obama announced sanctions against russia e-mailed what she thought wouldn't be read saying sanctions could make it harder for trump to ease tensions with russia which has just thrown the usa election to him. not clear if mcfarland was literally saying the election was thrown or paraphrasing democratic argument. worked with jim comey at fbi and msnbc contributor, recently left trump administration where he had been acting dea head and betsy woodruff, all over the russian story reporting on the mueller team. what does this reporting tell you about bob mueller you know? >> smiled to myself when you
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talked about small talk and bob mueller. i interviewed with director mueller in '02, joined him in fbi, and rounding up, interview was about 30 seconds. not a lot of small talk with bob mueller. >> all business. >> all the time. >> betsy. >> beyond the "post"'s reporting, one member of the team has been to justice since the probe was put together. overseen a lot of the manafort portion i ran into at main justice. didn't give me hot scoops but we know there's been a tiny bit of back and forth between the scif in southwest d.c. and main justice itself. that said mueller is always described as sphynx-like, and in terms of demeanor, couldn't take issue with the "post" report. >> suggests a careful process with people specialized finding
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facts. can you put that in context of the questions about kushner. in fairness sometimes people are central because they were always there. secretary or assistant wrapped up in issues but not seen as driver of potential conspiracy. and other times people of special interest because they're reviewing whether that's a co-conspirator. what kodo you think jared kushner's team is thinking when they see in article that they keep asking other people about jared? >> it's not pleasant read for them. and i imagine each witness will be asked lots about kushner and everyone else they may have encountered. here's what's going to happen in investigation like this, talk to david, david is going to tell them about brandon and matt. just making up names here. and it's going to lead them to talk to others who talked to
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others who point to witnesses and documents and circle back to witnesses they've talked to before. this is an iterative process. if i were representing mr. kushner, i would tell him to prepare for the long haul. it's going to be efficient but not fast. >> and kushner has a law degree. do you think that figures into how they view him as sophisticated actor who knows or ought to know? >> he's clearly a sophisticated actor. he's new to this realm but clearly sophisticated fellow, articulate, well-educated, been around in other environments where folks watch closely what you do. he's got to know he's understand the gun. tell you this ari, experience not just with bob mueller but number of people on thiz team, exceedingly professional and thorough, not going to miss a
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thing. >> that's why all the questions adding up are tantalizing. don't know yet where they lead. betsy woodruff, thank you. chuck rosenberg, thanks for being here. coming up, new details i mentioned from woman who was young when she dated roy moore. had relationship when she was teenager ands h has new evidenc. next. flavor they love. only eggland's best. one egg with more vitamins d and e and 25% less saturated fat. only eggland's best. one egg that makes choosing the best easy. only eggland's best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs.
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let me state once again i do not know any of these women, did not date any of these women and did not engage in any sexual misconduct with anyone. >> that was roy moore's denial. but tonight new reporting from "the washington post." a woman coming forward with what she calls specific evidence of a relationship she says she had with moore when she was 17 and he was 34. >> happy graduation, debbie. i wanted to give you this card myself. i know you'll be a success in anything you do, roy.
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i've known roy moore for many years. i met him in 1981, and we dated for a brief time. and we kissed with my consent. and i'm very sad that he decided to say he doesn't know me. >> she also says that moore's denials have now changed her view of his public stance on this issue. >> i felt like this was the first thing that i've seen that i know personally for a fact to be a lie from his mouth. and he is spewing the lie from the pulpit of a church. he did not perpetrator sexual misconduct toward me nor have i ever claimed that. but i now know for sure that he is a liar. >> you'll note the nuance there. she is not alleging a lack of consent, rather that he, she says, is lying about her. and this news comes on the same day donald trump has gone farther than ever before since these allegations broke, now urging republicans to, quote, elect roy moore.
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back with me "the wall street journal's" shelby holiday. that is a distinction she is drawing that may not resonate with a lot of people. we've reported on this show a lot about the age of consent. >> right. >> which is different in different states. but what do you think about the point that she is making, that this is lies she says? >> this is going to be really hard for alabama voters to ignore, i think. not only does she have this note which echos a similar note written in a yearbook from another woman, moore denies knowing either of them. but she also writes in her year book notes about thank yous. he had given her $10 for high school graduation. she had on her commencement guest list that he attended. they exchanged holiday cards. roy moore wanted to meet her fiance. this is all according to "the washington post." they had a long relationship. this wasn't just a little fling. so her point, she wasn't even going to come forward. and in fact she has been threatened so much with such terrifying threats, she didn't
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want to come forward. but she heard the words, she knows they are lies and had to speak up. it's going to be hard for voters to ignore this because the question right now is he telling the truth or is he not. and this is just a big nail in the coffin of he is not telling the truth. it doesn't appear that he is telling the truth. >> how do you think people will view her statement, which is basically in a way talking positively about a history with him. >> yes. >> but negatively about the way she says he is lying now? >> yes. i think that's also very compelling. she respected him. and she wrote under his graduation note that she really respected him and looked up to him and he believed in her. they had a positive relationship. it's just about the lies she is now speaking out. 70% of alabama republicans don't believe these allegations. they think democrats are behind them. i've been talking to a political historian who studied voter psychology, rick shrinkman.
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and he says once you commit to a candidate, you'll listen to information that affirms your view and filter out information that doesn't. so it will be really interesting to see how this new evidence plays into their psyche. >> very interesting. and as you put it, something that doubles back on what people want to think and see in the world. shelby holiday, always appreciate your reporting and insights. >> thanks for having me. we're going fit in a quick break, and we will be right back. (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c, but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. non-insulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk.
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breaking news on the tax bill. you're looking at a live view of
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the house floor where republicans are currently one vote short of proceeding to a conference committee on that trump tax plan. major problems and arm twisting on the house floor. republican votes still outstanding so they could rescue it. rumors of the freedom caucus making trouble for paul ryan. we wanted to give you that update before the show ends. the beet ends. "hardball" is up next. trump versus the fbi. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. so it's now donald trump at war with the federal bureau of investigation. he is out there knocking the fbi for treating michael flynn unfairly. the president defended the man who on friday pleaded guilty to one count of lying to the fbi and who is now cooperating with robert mueller. let's watch.


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