tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 27, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
future. >> maria and fiona. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. that wraps it up for this hour. here at msnbc. stay with us for updates and breaking news. "all-in" with chris hayes is up next. make it a great saturday. tonight on "all-in." >> fake news, folks. >> the plot to fire mueller. >> typical new york times fake stories. >> tonight new concerns the threat to the special counsel hasn't passed and yet one republican is backing off his plan to protect robert mueller and what all this means for the russia investigation. >> i haven't given it any thought. >> then -- >> yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for a conflict. does he not have a right to raise those questions. >> can trump tv sustain the president through his latest crisis. >> the president said it is fake news. what do you think about that and do you even care?
>> and the finance chief for the republican party faces new allegations of sexual misconduct. >> steve is always calling and got advice. >> when "all-in" starts right now. >> his advise i like to listen to. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the president just landed back in washington from his trip to davos. and he returns to yet more questions about his actions toward special counsel robert mueller's investigation. the president was attending the world economic forum where he got to rub elbows with the so-called globalist elite. the only thing on reporters minds was the blockbuster report about the new york times that the president ordered mule tore -- mueller to be fired last june backing off only after his white house counsel threatened to quit. this morning the president gave them a classic trump-yan nondenial. >> fake news, folks. fake news. >> typical new york times fake stories. >> back in august, amid on going
rumors he would make a move and he denied the idea had even occurred to him. >> i haven't given it any thought. i've been reading about it from you people you say oh, i'm going to dismiss him. i'm not dismissing anyone. and i want them to get out on the task and i want the senate and the house to come out with your findings. >> but tonight it has been confirmed by political and fox news and even trump tv and neither the white house or anyone else in the story has issued a denial. according to the times, this is a concern among his legal team and close aides. in other words they are still worried he might do it and this adds to what was already an extraordinary pattern of behavior by the president who is the subject of an ongoing investigation into whether he or his campaign conspired to cr
crimm crim -- criminally impede or end that very investigation. a year ago you remember he asked then fbi director james comey for his loyalty. in a private meeting. according to comey's sworn testimony and then subsequently asked him to drop the investigation of michael flynn. when comey did not comply he got his justice department to co-- come up with a bogus reason to fire him and blaming it on the e-mail probe and then the president turned around and admitted he fired comey because of the russia investigation. >> regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey. knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story, it is an excuse. >> before firing comey the president asked his top intelligence officials to
intervene on the russia probe on his behalf and pressured senior republicans to end the inquiry and pressured jeff sessions and when he recused himself, the president would fire him and berating him publicly. he asked james comey's successor acting director andrew mccabe who he voted for in the 2016 election and after mccabe was replaced, the president pressured wray through sessions only because someone threatened to quit, in this case the fbi director. the president did not succeed. the president told the reporters, all of that action and the entire behavior was simply in his mind, quote, fighting back. >> do you think robert mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation in. >> we're going to find out. >> are you concerned about -- >> because here is what we'll say and everybody says, no
collusion. there is no collusion. now they are saying, oh, well did he fight back. fight back. you fight back. you fight back. oh, it is obstruction. so here is the thing. i hope so. >> today the top democrat in the senate intelligence committee senator mark warner expressed concerns about the president's view of the american legal system. >> what bothers me so much is i don't know if the president understands our system. understands that everybody has got to adhere to the law and when you've got a prosecutor looking into a matter, you have to let that prosecutor finish his work. this president has continued to say there is no there-there. well he is acting in absolutely opposite way of someone who had nothing to hide. >> senator richard blumenthal a democrat from connecticut and a member of the senate judiciary committee. and i'll start with the
comments. do you believe he is acting like someone who has something to hide. >> he is acting as though he has something to hide and acting like someone who has utter contempt for the rule of law. he has a right to fight back if he means the right to present arguments and evidence and a legal defense. he has no right to fire james comey or bob mueller. he's already fired comey, he said because the russia thing is nothing. but in fact, if he fires mueller, because he similarly wants to stop an investigation, or intimidate witnesses or withhold documents, that's obstruction of justice. and the excellent summary that you've just given makes for a credible case of obstruction of justice against the president of the united states. >> so if that is true, then what? i guess the question is what more -- given what we already know, what more do you need to know? >> the first point we need to
know is that this investigation will be permitted to conclude with completeness and integrity. that is why we need the bipartisan legislation that i and others have introduced that will stop the president from firing robert mueller, and protect thein teg -- integrity of the investigation. and that is second. and number one, we need to have the evidence subpoenaed and produced to the special counsel and the judiciary committee, including donald trump and jared kushner in their account of the june meetings that occurred. but most important, the president has to be sent the message that there will be a fire storm, that republicans and democrats will join together in the kind of reaction that followed the saturday night massacre during watergate when there was a joint sense of outrage, the best way to send that message is through the
special counsel protection legislation that i and others have introduced. >> you have republican co-sponsors on that. who are they? if you can tell me? >> they are senators graham and tillis on the republican side. senators coons and senator whitehouse on this side and as a result of the remarkable report last night. and i think by the way this continued excellence in reporting is another sign that the heroes of this era are the free press and the independent judiciary. but significantly, senator grassley indicated he was open to considering this legislation as well. >> here is the thing. it seems that some republicans have moved in the opposite direction. thom tillis is a co-sponsor a piece in the daily beast saying he said this is isn't urgent even after news trump tired to fire multer and he is backing
off and it won't pass. but i can't help but notice we've been talking about this legislation on this program for several months now with no seeming urgency from mitch mcconnell to bring it up for a vote. >> that is very true, chris. you're right. and i'm disappointed -- in my republican colleagues who have failed to sense the urgency of this legislation. and who have been silent over the last 24 hours after this extraordinary, chilling, stunning, deeply scary report about the president acting -- not just thinking about acting to fire the special counsel. i am hoping that senator grassley's statement that he is opening to considering this legislation and that -- and there should be to firing will prompt others to follow his lead. >> senator richard blumenthal thank you for your time. >> thank you. for more on the fallout. i'm joined by richard painter. ethics lawyer and retired
federal judge nancy kurtner. let me begin with you, nancy. it seems to me that this is going to end up in some court somewhere, somehow. there is no way the process just developed without some federal courts having to weigh in on where the boundaries are here. is that your sense as well, as someone who once was a federal judge? >> well it will -- if -- the problem is here we're talking about obstruction of justice vis-a-vis a president, you're talking about an impeachment proceeding and that is where the line between politics and law get muddy. there won't be an obstruction of justice charge against the president by way of indictment. so essentially the house of representatives and the senate could define what obstruction of justice is. and actually not necessarily even bound by the legal definition of it. so what will be in court will be subpoena scope of the investigation but the core accusations are political.
>> richard, this is something that was in the new york timestory that i thought was interesting, i will read it. the fact of the leaking is almost the most significant -- this is politico. the fact of the leaking is almost the most significant that we've reached an in flexion point where people at the center of things feel the need to redeem themselves at the expense of the president. someone who worked in the white house, what do you make of that? >> i don't know who was leaking. a lot of people are leaking in white house because president trump throws his own people under the bus with regularity and people don't last long at this white house. but this concern that president trump is going to try to fire robert mueller is a real one, people in the white house are well aware of it. and this is a reiteration of the exact same story that we've known about all along. i can say that if president trump chooses to fire robert mueller, there is a very high chance that he will be removed from office.
a republican -- the republicans will not tolerate much more of this. they have to go into the 2018 elections and suffer the consequences of trump's conduct and their own failure to rein it in and there is only so much they will put up with. and president trump himself could end up being prosecuted and going to jail. this is serious. when you fire a special counsel in order to impede a investigation, he's already fired james comey, he has the power to hire and fire. just like the mayor of a town, they have the power to hire and fire the chief of police but if they stop the mayor for speeding and the mayor says you are fired, the city counsel is going to be meeting by the end of the week and thinking about what to do with the mayor. and that's the difference. it is the difference between the power to do something and the legal right and this -- in this country he can't do that and that point will be made very clear one way or another.
>> chris -- >> go ahead. >> i was saying that when you talk about what is going to be in court and what will not be in court. the people around trump, the circle around trump who may be aiding his obstruction of justice, those people are vulnerable to criminal charges. and so that may well have been going through mcgahn's mind when he didn't want to be complicit in this. those people are vulnerable. >> and that happened in watergate, people were charged around the president prior to him being brought up. what do you think about the idea of the facts we have of adding up to a plausible claim of obstruction on the face? >> you know, i step back from this and i think about what i would do if i were the judge on the case and so one measure of obstruction of justice is, is there a pattern of conduct. there is a pattern of conduct with respect to comey and now close to mueller. there is a pattern of interference with the investigation, what he said to comey, what he said to coats, the national security adviser.
what he said to sessions is a pattern of conduct. there is a pattern of inconsistent versions of what is going on, inconsistent and that also con notes something he shouldn't do so that is a pattern of conduct. it is interesting, mueller is quite right -- he wants to get to the bottom of this and not bringing charges until all of the ducks are in a row. it is an enormous thing to make this accusation against a president. and i think he wants to do it and he wants there to be -- dsh if there is anything with respect to the russia investigation, he wants those charges and if there is anything with respect to money laundering he wants that and the best play here, the best charge here would be to put obstruction of justice alongside other accusations. >> well that -- that is something a lot of people are talking about. what would happen if that was done in the absence of findings of criminal infraction on the underlying questions. my question to you, richard, is the defenders of the president will say something like the
following -- the president is frustrated and angry at what he views as fundamentally an unjustunjust inquiry and he is fighting back in his words. what do you say to that. >> this president is unable to control his frustration and anger. and that is a psychological problem. it is a very dangerous one when he is in control of nuclear weapons. because there is a lot to be frustrated about in the presidency. whether it is this investigation, or crises around the world, or political opponents criticizing you and yes, we have a free press in the united states of america. and the free press is not always going to be complimentary of the president of the united states. so his frustration and his anger is leading him to do irrational things here, to tread certainly on very close to the edge if not over the edge with respect to criminal obstruction of justice. we say in twoets, this is not
the behavior of a stable man. >> thank you both. up next, watch in realtime the lengths trump tv went through to try to spin the report that the president ordered the firing of robert mueller. reporting they themselves confirmed can the network save the president in two minutes. 'm . he thinks i'm going to see my sister! ♪ ♪ sometimes the confidence to be spontaneous starts with financial stability. once i heard it i was shocked. i just thought, i have to go get it! ♪ ♪ it's our tree! ♪ ♪ see how a personalized financial strategy and access to j.p. morgan investment expertise can help you. chase. make more of what's yours. to j.p. morgan investment expertise can help you. i'm never gonna be able i'll take a sick day tomorrow. on our daughter's birthday? moms don't take sick days... moms take nyquil severe. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine.
it has been a remarkable 24 hours over a trump tv. last night new york times broke the news that in june president trump ordered his white house counsel don mcgahn to fire special counsel robert mueller but then backed down after mcgahn refused and threatened to quit. because the story broke shortly before his show, the president's chief propaganda had to scramble to figure out how to cover it which led to a reversal in less than an hour. sean hannity dismissed the story and then they confirmed part ofs it, he said the story may be true. it doesn't matter and we'll deal it later and before abruptly
from a car crash from the day before. >> at this hour the new york times is trying to distract you. they have a story that trump wanted mueller fired sometime lastup and our -- last june and our sources are not confirming that and the president's attorney dismissed the story and said, no, no comment we're not going there. and how many times has "the new york times" and others gotten it wrong? >> so we have sources tonight confirming to ed henry, that yeah, maybe he wanted to fire special counsel for conflict. does he not have the right to raise those questions. we'll deal with this tomorrow night. this is footage from arizona. >> that was last night. then this morning the host of the president's other favorite cable news show pointed to the president calling the story fake news and then told viewers they shouldn't care about it. >> there is a big story that apparently the president of the united states last june wanted
to fire robert mueller. >> the president said it is fake news. that happened last june. it is something we have to tell you about because it is a headline in the new york times. what do you think about that? do you have even care. something you care about is immigration he said it is fake news to let's move on to talk about something you all care about and that is the wall and that is keeping america safe. >> let's get to that wall. a couple of hours after that, trump tv went ahead and just proceeded to walk back its own reporting. >> i'm told the president never told mcgahn to fire mueller and mcgahn never threatened to quit over it. so there is -- obviously some competing stories here. >> joining me now former breitbart news spokesperson and democrat crit bardola. what do you make of that when you watch that? >> first of all, i almost forgot
ed henry and he confirmed that he heard the stories were true and reported. he has his own network and other reporters undermining him. that is how far -- the right hand doesn't know what the far right hand is doing over there. >> an it is just getting overridden by the political imperative which is what it looks like from the outside. i don't have any special knowledge. >> there used to be a semblance of line between the news and commentary but -- >> i think that was always a little -- quite permiable. >> and they've gone from the fair and balance moniker so far to right. they make breitbart look sane. they were a conspiracy theory crowd and would run anything and didn't care about any validity or standard and now fox news has replaced that. the reason there is no voiz -- no void of steve bannon because fox news took that over a long time ago. >> and it is sort of fascinating to watch them deal with this. there is ann entire universe created over there and not just
in breitbart and other allied media that has this impermy ability to the outside of the world and operating in the universe, how does that operate on the people that work in republican politics. >> well i think one of the big things that changed, before there was some semblance of the fact being told on fox news. that there was a legitimate discussion whether b whether it is public policy or immigration or republicans care about and talk about and think about all day. now it is so far removed from -- and i know so many republicans tell me they don't even watch fox news because they want to know what is going on and they can't watch that to be informed or they'll go on national tv repeating something that fox news reported and sound like idiots. >> which something similar to happened to ron johnson with the notorious secret society text which he had to sort of walk back. i want to -- to show you a little bit more of the way in
which fox's approached mule tore begin with because part of what is strange is watching them deny they have been calling for them to fire mueller all along. take a look at hanity back in june. >> mueller needs to be removed. >> according to comey, the relationship might violate two federal laws. >> this is beyond ridiculous and another reason why the special counsel mueller needs to be shut down. >> the acting attorney general who appointed mueller should fire him because he has a glaring conflict of interest. >> special counsel mueller investigation mission creep i've been telling you about. it is now turned into an out of control what is a political witch hunt. it needs to be stopped. he should recuse himself. he's incapable of pulling out a fair and impartial investigation. >> you have to wonder whether the president got the idea or got the idea from doing that. >> you could measure the president's tweets with what is on fox news programming. there is a complete relationship and a direct symbiosis there.
and the crazy thing here is sean said this should happen. it happened. trump gave the order. he said this should happen. and then he goes on tv to say, well it doesn't matter. it was your idea in the first place. you are the one saying it should happen. >> what i find interesting here is i'm surprised that the tactic they've gone with is to deny it happening when they could say he had ever right or he thought about doing it and didn't do it but they are fight on the facts. >> i'm shocked sean didn't say i said this year last year and i'm glad he took my advice. >> and coming up in the next 24 hours maybe this will be on the news cycle. thank you for being with me. and one of the president trump's billionaire benefactors faces multiple allegations of sexual misconduct. the details are coming up.
another member of congress announced retirement due to allegations of sexual misconduct. in this case meehan republican of pennsylvania following a settlement of a sexual harassment settlement using funds. he denied harassing the aide describing her as a soul mate. he is the eighth member of congress to resign or announce they will not run for re-election in the wake of ac e acuse -- accusations of misconduct. and new york times reporting in 2008 hillary clinton retained her campaign spiritual adviser after he was accused of sexual harassment. her campaign manager at the time recommended she fire the visser, burn strider, but she did not.
instead he was docked several weeks of pay and ordered to undergo counseling and the young woman was moved to a new job. and then there is more on this front today because arguably the most powerful republican party donor in the country, steve wynn is being accused of sexual misconduct over several decades in a story that has 150 sources according to the "wall street journal." steve wynn, the casino magnate and current finance chair of the republican finance committee had this to say about candidate trump weeks about the election. >> it seems to me on the subject of the presidential sexual contact behavior that being over sex is a qualification for a president to pass through generations. this discussion of the sex lives of our politicians is a distraction. >> that is next. grab a seat. woman: okay. moderator: nice to meet you. have you ever had car trouble in a place like this? (roaring of truck) yes and it was like the worst experience of my life. seven lanes of traffic and i was in the second lane.
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more than 7 wonders. for a limited time, enjoy two free perks like complimentary wifi and drinks, plus savings for everyone in your stateroom, when you book now. during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event. and another great friend of mine, somebody respected by everybody, a great friend of phil, too, mr. and mrs. steve wynn. stand up, steve. stand up. steve is always calling and got advice. right steve. donald, i think you ought to this and that. his advice i like to listen to, i'll be honest with you. >> steve wynn is a billionaire casino mogul as well as the current finance chairman of the republican national committee. he's the vice chair of president trump's inaugural committee and co-host of the president's big mar-a-lar mar-a-largo fundraiser and now
accused of sexual misconduct in a comprehensive report by the "wall street journal" that contacted 150 current and former employees, dozens of people they interviewed who worked as his casinos told about behavior that would amount to a decades long pattern of sexual misconduct by him. and some described him appreciate oari -- pressuring employees to perform sex acts and he paid out a $7 million settlement who accused him back in 2005. wynn denied the acusations saying the idea that i assaulted any woman is preposterous and he has no immediate plans to relinquish his role as finance chairman. a reminder that the republican uproar over contributions to democrats over harvey weinstein included this admonition from rnc chairman. if the dnc tands up for women like they say they do, then returning weinstein's dirty
money should be a no brainer. he was a co-host with steve wynn last weekend. the rnc has not responded to the request for comment. john wallston is the editor of the nevada independent. did you see this coming, john? >> i wobts say that i saw it coming. but there have been rumors about the casino industry for a long, long time. and and i -- i think the "wall street journal" were looking into sexual harassment in the casino industry. one of my columnist has written about steve wynn and there were allegations and a lawsuit that the "wall street journal" mentioned with dennis domeez a former employee when he said something along the lines i won't be his pimp or words to that effect. those rumors have been around. but as you mentioned, chris, this is an incredibly well reported, well researched story. 150 people, the $7.5 million that you mentioned really stands
out. so this is -- they obviously took their time with this. >> talk about his relationship with donald trump. because trump doesn't have a ton of folks that -- he's got a huge social circle, a lot of acquaintances but in the world of donald trump, he and wynn were relatively close. >> well you know it is really interesting, chris, because way back 20, 30 years ago, they hated each other. they were competitors in atlantic city and there were lawsuits. they just did not like each other. i remember one of the first columns i ever wrote as a journalist started with steve wynn is becoming the donald trump of the west. and it was not meant at as a compliment and he didn't take it that way and then over the years they became friendly. i talked to steve wynn when the donald trump for president rumors this time were just starting. he seemed to not believe it was for real. but then when it was, he certainly took advantage of it. because unlike donald trump,
steve wynn is truly a brilliant guy and i'm sure he did have a lot of advice for trump and he embraced the whole thing because who wouldn't. you have access to the president of the united states. same reason that sheldon addleson another billionaire who lives not far from here, chris, embraced donald trump. >> he has had a political trajectory when he in the past sort of divided his donations and gave to democrats and republicans. post obama he became a very republican conservative figure. he's given money to marco rubio and to rob partman, pat toomey, flake. >> lisa murkowski and more than $2 million to republican campaigns and interest groups since 2001, including $1.3 million to rnc. bundled for senator john mccain's presidential campaign. as well, he's a big deal in the donor world of republican politics. >> he's become bigger and bigger. a switch flipped with steve wynn
shortly after obama was elected. and i remember several conversations with him in which they became increasingly vitriolic about the president. who i believe actually -- i think he voted for him. i think his wife at the time, elaine wynn, talked him into voting for obama. but he had buyers remorse almost immediately and said he was creating the worst business climate in the history of the world and thought the affordable care act was the worst bill ever passed. but it has gottenin -- increasingly more intense and becoming more republican. sheldon addleson who i mentioned has been a major republican donor and they also did not like each other but bonded over obama and i think sheldon addleson helped get steve wynn into the major republican donor column. but if i may, chris, the poicnt about him being the republican national committee finance chair now and all of those pictures with donald trump and the things he said about donald trump, it is not like the republican national committee like wynn
resorts have a board of directors where they could vote steve wynn out of that job. only one person can tell steve wynn not to be the republican finance chair any more. it is not the chairman of the rnc, it is the guy at 1600 pennsylvania. >> and we still -- radio silence in the rnc so far. that is the stock price pursuant to that story in the "wall street journal" which paints a picture of a pretty awful pattern and some truly vile acts there. you should read that story. wynn has issued his own denial. john ralston, thank you very much. still to come, a republican co-sponsor of a bill to protect robert mueller from donald trump is now changing his tune. that story ahead. and plus the president has the best memory. primarily when it comes to telling you he has the best mem ory. tonight's thing one and thing two is next.
loss and i don't mean that time at mara lauga who he failed to recognition old friends as michael wolff reported. i'm talking about how trump can't remember key details related to the investigation into russia collusion and obstruction of justice. for instance, does he remember what happened at the march 2016 meeting where george papadapoulos arranged a meeting between trump and putin. >> i don't remember much about that meeting. it was unimportant. didn't remember very much about it, and how about the meeting when the president asked james comey to drop the investigation into michael flynn. >> did you actually have a one-on-one with comey then? >> not much. not even that i remember. he was sitting and i don't even remember talking to him about any of this. >> and after firing comey, did trump pressure then acting fbi director andrew mccabe to tell him who he voted for in the election. >> did you ask mccabe who he
voted for? did you ask him that. >> i don't think so. >> you don't think you did. >> i don't think i did. >> you did not. >> i don't know what is the big deal with that. because i would ask you -- who did you vote for? i don't think it is a big deal. but i don't remember that -- i saw that this morning. i don't remember asking him that questi question. >> is it possible you do. >> i think it is also a very unimportant question. but i don't remember asking him that question. >> it was fine if i did it but i don't remember doing it. he doesn't remember. this is nothing new. trump selected amnesia in legal trouble is thing two in 60 seconds. in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru.
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all time. >> but when he gets in front of a lawyer as he might have to do with mueller and the team. his great memory fails. for example there were 35 times he said he didn't remember during a deposition at the trump university lawsuit in december of 2015 and the 24 times he said in a separate trump university lawsuit in 2012 and the time he couldn't remember exactly how he had boasted about his excellent memory. quoting from his december 25th, 25 deposition, do you believe you have one of the best memories in the world. trump, that i can't tell you. i can't tell for other people but i have a good mem yoir. lawyer, you stated that you have one of the best memories in the world. trump, i don't know. did i use that expression? >> i got a phone call directly from mr. trump himself, i could tell you that never happened before. he said he has, as i quote, the world's best memory and everybody knows that. >> i have have a good memory, i have a great memory. >> it is called up here and memory and called other things.
today we learned the u.s. economy grew in its first year under trump but not as much as the president might have you believe. the economy add theed -- added fewer jobs than and showing gdp growth shows the economy has been growing for years. in fact if you zoom in there, it is tough to pinpoint where exactly the trump economics kicked in. there is nothing unusual about president's taking credit for a growing economy. regardless of the president's real impact. it is what they all do. somewhat stranger is how corporations are playing along like for instance the ceo of the german siemens yesterday in davos. >> is siemens doing good? >> as a matter of fact, we're investing into the country and since you have the tax reform we decided to develop the next generation gas turbines in the united states.
>> that is a big thing. that is a very big. where will that be developed. >> charlotte. >> the ceo there said and i'm quoting him again there, since you have been successful with tax reform we decided to develop next generation gas turbines in the united states. this got us curious so we reached out to siemens to ask about the project. the company e-mailed a press release dated back in august. august would be before any republican tax plan existed announcing the turbine project, the same project the ceo now appears to credit the passage of tax reform. in that meeting, the ceo also neglected to mention the layoffs in iowa as per the usa today. but he is alone in bathing trump in the glory he seeks. the ceo of walmart added wage hikes to the tax plan but the company had wages twice. in fact one in 2015 when president obama was president and then in 2016 when president obama was president. and some economists on the
foreign relations put it, those raises tonight tig-- tied to politics. but that makes for crummy pr and much better to share credit for rising wages. gives them motivation. and kimberly clark announced a very different plan. on a conference call the company admitted the wind fall from the corporate tax cut will be used to fund their company's plan to layoff around 5,000 people. yes. you heard that right. credit where it is due at least they were honest. i just got my cashback match,
>> when there was talk last year that president trump was thinking of firing robert mueller, there were some republicans that spoke against it. >> i think it would be a mistake. >> the white house would dismiss bob mueller, newly appointed special counsel to look into this, what is your suggestion if that suggestion came up? >> any effort to go after mueller could be the beginning of the end of the trump presidency. >> to protect against that senator graham, establish can't be fired unless you have judicial review of the firing. looking to defer trump from
firing mueller. >> there seems to be a belief, it is backed up from what the senator said, concerned about this president's reaction, to robert mueller's investigation. >> i think that is right. that is why we put the effective date back to the date of the hire of the current special counsel. >> now that we learned that trump did try to fire mueller, he order said the firing of mueller, ittis is backing off. tillis is no longer working to advance his own legislation. conceding that bill doesn't have support to get through congress. and reporter for the daily beast. betsy, i will start with you. what is the rationale of the office, they no lock longer seem
to back their own vegz. >> two relationships they are not trying to move this legislation forward. tillis's statement said, they support the idea of ultimately making this legislation law. however, they don't think it is urgent, they are not in effort to move the ball forward. the two reasons they gave me for that first, they say, they trust that president trump isn't going to fire mueller. this was important, tillis's spokesperson said he didn't think there was enough support in congress to get legislation like this passed. i will leave it to viewers which one they think is more likely, that trump would fire mueller or it wouldn't get through congress. that is the reasoning they are putting it on ice. >> senator tillis was interesting, senator graham has a reputation for working on bipartisan legislation, ittis is more of a party line person.
that is in the senate. in the house, you have legislation to protect mueller is that right? >> a panel of three judges, so far, democrats are sponsoring it, no republicans couragely supporting it in the house. >> zero. more important than legislation is the public opinion. president lincoln had it right when he said public sentiment, without it nothing can succeed. if trump got him removed, people would take to the streets. >> the reason that mcgan threw himself in front of this according to the reporting has to do with that? you thinks that is the check that bound it so far? >> i think he saw what happened
in watergate, he wasn't going to be part of that john dean went to prison because he was involved in the cover up. he didn't want to be part of that put himself at legal jeopardy. now, deputy general rosenstein would have resigned, he wasn't going to fire mueller. and strump would have had a lot of people fired. >> you think it would have gone through a lot of people -- >> like the saturday night massacre 2.0 squared. >> one thing that jumped out from the mcgan story here, in sortd of ways of binding the situation, mcgan threatened to quit. christopher ray, threatening to quit over the pressure to fire andrew mccabe, do you think that is something that is a tool in the tool kit for those seeking
to stop the president from doing something like firing mueller? >> it is a good question. to be clear, senior level officials in the federal government always have some resignation letter on hand, in case they reach a situation that is so frustrating that they feel they need to break out that threat. it is not unique to this administrati administration. this is something we see folks in the executive branch, always keeping on hand as a way to push back against presidents they believe are over stepping their bounds. the number of public reports indicating that public level officials have used this tactic is clearly significant. another thing i think it is important to bear in mind, when we talk about push back against the president, one figure who floated under the radar is ty cobb, in terms of the time line. when trump reportedly threatened to fire mueller in june, shortly
after that ty cobb stepped on. in the time that he has been the president's top in-house lawyer, we have seen almost a complete 180 as far as house the white house talks about the mueller probe. he has been an under the radar figure, i believe, showing a lot of influence. >> do you trust that that lawyer can restrain his client, the president of the united states? >> i don't. >> there is a pattern of obstruction of justice. donald trump tried to get michael flynn's dropped, and get the attorney general to resign, and now, mueller fired, this is a pattern. >> do you have a sense, that this is coming to a head any time soon? do you have a sense in congress that that is the case? >> i have a sense that special
counsel investigation will come to a head when they interview president trump. he lied over 2000 times according to "washington post," you go into an interview with the fbi, where if you lie once, it is perjury. >> the rachael maddo show starting now, joy is n. >> thank you for joining us, rachael has the night off. early this month, a couple of days into the new year, an odd and dramatic thing happened in washington, d.c. the deputy attorney general of the united states, the supervisor of the special counsel in charge of the russian investigation, and fbi director, chris ray made an unannounced visit to capital hill. the deputy attorney general and the fbi direct
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