tv MSNBC Live With David Gura MSNBC January 28, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PST
watching everyone. my colleague david gur a has you for sunday afternoon. see you in february. i'm david gura, at nbc headquarters in new york. state of the union. learning more about the focus of president trump's address to the nation on tuesday. pressure mounting for the commander in chief to deliver a unifying message. as ever, a big question is, will he stay on script? >> i'm very highly educated. i know words. i have the best words. >> plus, trump versus the department of justice again, after the year of complaining about leakers, reports the president himself wanted to release a classified document republicans believe will undercut the russia investigation. also, the music industry and me too, will the grammys amplify the me too movement tonight? begin this hour with president trump's first state of the union address. he's scheduled to deliver that speech to congress a little more than 48 hours from now. in just nine days before
congress and the white house must reach a deal to keep the government open. here we go again. nbc's jeff bennett is live at the white house. tell us what the white house is saying about the themes we'll hear on tuesday night? >> well, a senior administration official tells us the president will set aside divisive rhetoric to deliver a conciliatory message. it will not be like his inaugural speech in which the president painted a bleak picture of american carnage. white house officials say the president will emphasize a unifying tone in the speech under the theme of building a safe, strong and proud america. the speech, we're told, will hit on the following topics. the economy, infrastructure. immigration. trade, and national security. on the issue of the economy, expect the president to take credit for a healthier u.s. economy, and tie its growth to the republican tax cut plan which he, as you know, signed into law late last year.
i'm also told we should expect him to talk a lot an immigration. the president laid out his immigration framework this past week, calls for granting a pathway to citizenship for 2 million immigrants, in ex-chain or $25 million for his border wall, $25 billion. the visa lottery would dramatically remake the country's immigration system. this framework, by the way, contains all of the elements the white house says it wants to see in a bill offering permanent protection to people in the expiring da ca program. now, prous legislative affairs director mark short was on a talk show today, he criticized democrats refusing to embrace the president's immigration approach. take a look. >> i think that the president made enormous appeal and showed enormous leadership in putting forward a plan to resolve the daca situation, an issue that has plagued our country for decades. and yet the outcry from democrats, when he went further than many people thought he
would in providing not just permanent residents, but also a pathway to citizenship for roughly 1.8 million of people living in the country, but so far democrats are continuing the cry they don't want to solve the problem. >> as for the state of the union address, president trump will have an audience in the tens of millions. it's a major opportunity for him to extend his appeal beyond his base to reach the majority of americans, david, who are responsible for his historically low job approvalratings. >> jeff bennett at the white house for us this afternoon. as we ntioned, the president's first state of the address will be on tuesday. not the first address to congress, however. that came about 11 months ago and it was widely regarded as one of the best speeches of his presidency. time even declared donald trump finally sounded like a president. to say that that victory was short lived would be an understatement. because "the washington post" broke this story just a day later, jeff sessions met with russia envoy twice in the
previous year, encounters he later did not disclose. sessions recused himself from the russia investigation one day later. so in this lightning fast news cycle the president essentially gave a highly lauded speech on tuesday, which was all but forgotten by thursday. with me now, former republican congressman david jolly, and founder and managing director of the white house writers group, clark judge, and president for the center of community change action. doorian, let me start with you. the quinnipiac poll, 36%. jeff bennett mentioned the president is going to sound a more unifying note. how difficult will that be for this president? >> it's very difficult. state of the union speeches are part of the power presidents have to persuade.
presidents don't get much in terms of increase in public approval. they actually don't get much in terms of convincing the other party around their legislative priorities. so you have to consider that, plus this president is particularly polarizing. when people look and hear the speech, they will look at it through the prism of their partisan identities. this week, next time, you probably will not be talking about the state of the union. it will not make much difference, especially if he goes off script, or releases a tweet later in the evening in which everyone will forget what he said about the actual speech. >> david jolly, the white house has said they want to unify the country, and reach out to more than just one-third of the country that is the president's base, comprises the president's base. how difficult will that be for president trump to do? >> it's very difficult because he has no credibility, unfortunately. look, his words last year, attempted to be unifying. but again we saw how he governed for the year. look, in many ways this is the tragedy of donald trump, you
know, since 2010 the emergence of the tea party and the republican party, a lot of republicans were looking for somebody that could bring the party back to more of a governing philosophy, a deal-making philosophy. donald trump could have been that person, someone without ideological conviction. instead we've heard invective of insults and bullying. a unifying speech, as words on paper might seem significant for the state of the union. unfortunately it won't be believable. take daca for instance, finally a republican really speaking to daca. president trump is using it as verage. the american people know that. >> clarkjudge, how much as this, the state of the union changed, its role changed since you were writing for the president reagan. the speed of the use cycle, certainly. when you look at the themes, the five things the president intends to talk about, the economy, infrastructure, immigration, trade and national security, in the past, as i understand it, the state of the
union was a kick starter to conversations about the budget. we got a sense from the white house what the priorities are going to be. looking back this last year, prioritization, the agenda has been squishy. >> i disagree with that. the state of the union has always been laying out the president's agenda for the year ahead. the list you saw there did that. in the past it hasn't been just about the budget. it's been about the whole spectrum of the program. it's also -- sets major themes for the year. last year, it was an outstanding speech. you'll remember, he had congress that, in many parts was very hostile, hostile the way this year is, and he had them on their feet within the first two sentences. so i think this is -- i would say that last year then, because of the nature of the program, and the -- also the temper of
the opposition was a year of confrontation. this year we've seen, already, with his daca, by opening up the cabinet meeting to cameras where the daca was being discussed, and debated, and negotiated, he was trying to -- and i think will in the end succeed in making this year the year of conciliation. he needs the democrats this year, the democrats need him more. if they really truly want to have a -- an agreement on daca, and don't just, as they have in many past years, want an issue instead. they need him, he needs them, i'd like for them to pull for a deal. >> jordan, on that point, you look at all of the democrats who have now said they're not going to be attending the speech, we have now more than a half dozen of them saying because of the words he was purportedly using in the oval office, because of his stance on daca and other immigration programs, they're not going to attend the speech
this year. clark, making a point there should be biisanship this year, or olive branch reached out to democrats. how likely is that to ppen, how different this year when you look at the contours of the previous to? >> it will be fundamentally different this year with the state of the union. so many democrats will not attend, and many will attend and bring d.r.e.a.m.ers with them as their guest to make the point they're not subject -- that d.r.e.a.m.ers are not hostage to these negotiations around immigration. then you have a range of people's state of the union parties and other kind of protests, streaming things that will be happening at the same time. it will be a very polarized state of the union. it's unclear that as many americans have watched before will tune in. like i said, by the next morning with one tweet no one will pay attention to what he lays out in the hour of the state of the union speech. >> ed perlmutter of colorado will be with us in a few moments.
thanks to all of you for joining me here in new york. >> thank you. ahead of a change of heart after vowing to crack down on leaks. the commander in chief wants to release a memo. >> the leaks are absolutely real. the news is fake because so much of the news is fake. i've gone to all of the folks, the judge of the various agencies, and we're -- i've actually called the justice department to look into the leaks. those are criminal leaks. they're put out by people either in agencies. i think you'll see it's stopping because now we have our people. you know, again, we don't have our people in because we can't get them approved by the senate. why give it every feature you could want, along with a few you didn't know you needed? it's simple. you can build a car, or you can build a cadillac. come in now for this exceptional offer on the cadillac ct6. get this low-mileage lease
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welcome back, i'm david gura. president trump is once again undermining his own justice department. "the washington post" reports the president is pushing his republican allies to release a classified memo written by staffers for house intelligence committee chairman devon nunez. the justice department is warning it would be extraordinarily reckless. the fbi relied on politically motivated to request a secret surveillance warrant. the development comes the same week the president said he was looking forward to speaking to special counsel robert mueller. >> do you think robert mueller will be fair to you in this larger investigation? >> we're going to find out. there's no collusion. now they're saying, oh, well, did he fight back?
did he fight back? you fight back. john, you fight back. oh, it's obstruction. here's the thing. i hope so. >> here with the reporter who broke the story. rosalynn, let me start with you. what did you find out? we've seen the hashtag, heard the conversations over the past few weeks, those agitating for the release of this particular memo, and ewith understawe unde justice department doesn't want it to happen. >> the letter you refer to from the department of justice came out on wednesday, from an assistant attorney general. he said the release of the memo without review by doj would be, quote, extraordinarily reckless. we understand the president reacted poorly to that. and instructed john kelly, his chief of staff, to call jeff sessions, and make his wishes known. and the wishes of the president are that this memo come out. he believes, based on what he has seen on tv, and what he has
heard from members of congress, that the memo will be helpful to him, that it will help people -- convince people the bias he says exists in the mueller probe is really there. he wants it out. >> rosalynn, very quickly here, i'm curious about the import of this, this is not fundamentally the decision of the justice department. it's something that lies in the court of congress. how much does this matter? explain that to us. >> it's interesting because it's sort of the latest example of what we have seen really going back for months. and something we understand is now an important focus of the mueller probe. which is that president trump believes that the justice department should answer to him. we understand that he sometimes refers to doj officials as my guys. he calls the justice department the trump justice department. so you have seen this ongoing pattern of the president attempting in various ways to intervene with the actions of the justice department. what we understand mueller is looking at is whether this pattern represents obstruction of justice.
>> a point made in this piece is you see a president trying to wield control over something he has no control of. i want to get your reaction to what you've read in the post this week. >> you know, i think trump's lack of understanding what obstruction of justice really means, just simply based on that statement that he made about fighting back, how now that's perceived as obstructing justice. his fighting back could give rise to an obstruction of justice, because we look at the pattern that he has engaged in, think about his firing of james comey, but not before asking for his loyalty and to back off of michael flynn. then you have him demanding that sessions not recuse himself from overseeing this russian investigation, despite those clear ethical conflicts. and then reports this week coming out that trump might have wanted to fire mueller. these actions, while they're not maybe criminal isolated, but together amount to an intent, a corrupt intent, that element
that's so hard to prove with obstruction of justice. but trump continuously makes that very easy with the actions that he takes. so, you know, his fighting back is going to kick him in the butt in the end because he is clearly treading a very dangerous line. >> i'm glad you bring up that other reporting. i want to play a clip here of susan collins. she was on cnn's state of the union this morning, talking about the second report you described. let's take a listen. >> i think the president would be best served by never discussing the investigation, ever, whether in tweets, except in private conversations with his attorney. and this is hard for us. but i think we've all got to be patient and allow the independent counsel to conclude his investigation and bring his findings forth before speculating on whether or not there are sufficient grounds for any kind of wrongdoing. we just don't know. >> and we've heard that most
recently about the deputy attorney general about rod rosenstein, and there's criticism being levied at robert mueller's investigation. how worried are you about the investigation running its course? >> it's incredibly worrying. the insatiable need for partisan points at the expense of the american people, safety and confidence they have in our legal system is at jeopardy at this very moment because the president of the united states, and his allies, are continuously trying to undermine an investigation that just wants to get to the bottom of things. so if trump really wants to fight back, what he needs to do is just let the investigation play out and have you be exonerated of whatever it is that you think you aren't guilty of. but his attempts to constantly try to put the brakes on an investigation, when they just simply want to let the american people know what it is that's going on, especially with trump saying he is about transparency. if you want to be transparent with the american people, and
restore their confidence in our checks and balances in our legal system, let it all play out. but that's not what he's doing. and it's dangerous for the american people, dangerous for what i do every day in the courtroom. because the person that holds the most important office is constantly questioning the most respected law enforcement agency that we have in this country. so it's extraemly bad. >> thank you, rosalynn, thanks to you as well. wonderful piece in the post today. the president brings back the blame game in his latest twitter storm. >> i don't know if you've seen the news, according to a poll, my approval rating is at an all-time high. that's right, donny q. trump, and suddenly i'm sweet by comparison. a lot of people are saying i wish george w. bush was our president right now. i want to address my fellow americans tonight and remind you
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to that call as well. and so when we show up to a fire and pg&e shows up with us it makes a tremendous team during a moment of crisis. i rely on them, the firefighters in this department rely on them, and so we have to practice safety everyday. utilizing pg&e's talent and expertise in that area trains our firefighters on the gas or electric aspect of a fire and when we have an emergency situation we are going to be much more skilled and prepared to mitigate that emergency for all concerned. the things we do every single day that puts ourselves in harm's way, and to have a partner that is so skilled at what they do is indispensable, and i couldn't ask for a better partner. i want to solve the daca problem. i will consider that a great achievement to solve the daca problem. it's been out there for a long time. these are good people, people
that should be able to stay in this country. >> there are countless stories of families being torn apart. the trump team is expected to unveil a new framework on immigration reform tomorrow, and bord serity. this morning the president, taking to twitter wh a pair of tweets, fusing on daca, placing the blame on the democrats. the subject of immigration is sure to be a key part of tuesday's state of the union address. the president's first. joining us now democratic congressman ed perlmutter, and his guest who is an undergraduate student at yale. her father was deported in december. congressman, let me start by asking you why you decided to bring viviana to the state of the union on tuesday. >> viviana is a great student from colorado. she was on any youth advisory council. she's now a senior at yale, father's been in this country
for well over 20 years, number of kids. he had been applying for legal status for a long, long time. when viviana turned 21, she said i'll help and she applied for her father. he'd been going through his brother. and everything looked great. they're in the final interview for him to get his green card. viviana is asked to leave the room. ten minutes later her father is in handcuffs, sent to detention and then ultimately deported. so this is fear mongering, divisive, and it's wrong. >> viviana, you wrote about that experience in the "new york times." one line "wlapd what happened to him is not an appropriate application of the law. it is cruelty." what message do you wish to send when you meet with lawmakers on
capitol hill? >> yeah. i hope to send the message the way he is making laws is a choice. he is choosing to be cruel and inhumane. as many resources as he's putting forth to deport these people who, in good faith, are trying to adjust their status, he could be providing a mechanism for them to adjust their status. he's choosing otherwise, instead. >> you've been studying race and immigration at yale. how has this experience colored your sense the way public policy works in this country? >> yeah, it's definitely been interesting. it's always been incredibly personal to me to study this topic. but this year, especially, became more personal. and now i know that constructing laws is very difficult. but they are choices, and they're rooted in values. and the values that are being put forth in crafting the current laws are -- i would say inhumane and unjust.
>> congressman perlmutter, i wanted to go back to a tweet i mentioned from the president morning. democrats are not interested in border security or refunding or building our military. they're only interested in obstruction. how do you react to the quality of rhetoric you've seen play out in washington the last couple weeks, leading up to the shutdown, during the shutdown? >> there's been a basis, a common ground for a lot of agreement on immigration, and other things. but then the president says one thing one day, and then he comes up with coarse language in a whole different position the next day. so you're supposed to have a unifying speech at the state of the union. yet he's starting off by doing the blame game. it's wrong. hopefully we get this thing back on track. >> viviana, this is a conversation centered on the law, centered on politics to a great extent. how frustrated have you been that stories have not gotten
attention to lawmake, as you've listened to the debate on capitol hill, human absence seems to be more often than not? >> inkrcredibly frustrating. the current daca deal only solves the situation for 20% of the people who were affected by these new laws that are being roguely enforced. so it's incredibly frustrating to see that even other people who may not be d.r.e.a.m.ers, who also merit to stay in the country, aren't being talked about, or discussed at all, or there's no option on the table for them currently. >> i just want to ask you, lastly, about how your dad is doing. as i said he was deported in december. give us an update on him, if you would. >> he's having a really difficult time adjusting. he hasn't been in his home country for over 20 years. he's trying the best that he can to market the many skills that he gained in the u.s. working in construction. but it's been very difficult.
he's been there for about a month, and still hasn't been successful in finding employment. >> viviana, i wish you the west, and congressman ed perlmutter, thank you for your time as well on this sunday afternoon. state of the union, black voters weigh in on the trump effect as the president prepares to deliver a message to the nation. average lasagna? not in this house. 'cause that's no average family. that's your family. which is why you didn't grab just any cheese. you picked up kraft mozzarella with a touch of philadelphia for lasanyeah! kraft. family greatly.
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weighing in on how the administration has handled the issue. morgan radford took a trip to middle america and spoke with voters about their concerns. >> this administration's relationship with race, how is it handled? >> terribly. >> what do you mean? >> donald trump constantly says racist stuff, you know, i was going to try to give him the benefit of the doubt. i said, well, he probably -- don't know no better. >> president trump says he is the least racist person. >> i personally think that trump is racist myself. >> he is racist, a tool. >> he won an election by it. he knew what he had to do to win an election. >> there you go. >> when you look at the demographics of this country, and you look at the amount of white americans in this country to the amount of black americans in the country, that's what you say to win an election. do we deal with race as an issue
as a country? yes, we do. we see that all around us. >> this is a man who started his political career by saying barack obama, show me your birth certificate, the modern day equivalent to saying to a former slave show me your freedom papers. >> joining me is morgan radford with he in new york. we've heard from the white house that the president wants to make this a unifying speech. in light of what you heard as you talked to voters, how high heard was that going to be? >> that's the question. what we did is traveled the country from coast-to-coast and going into the heart of america. this question, for this particular group of voters was, what's the state of your union? as black voters, ahead of the state of the union. and what was interesting was we talked about immigration, and climate change and the economy. and really got to understand the diversity of this voting block within the black community. but race was high on the list especially when it came to this president. partly because they said, look, we're in a particular and
peculiar cultural moment in this country, from the nfl protests, to charlottesville, even considering the me too campaign. we want to see a president who is more explicitly inclusive in his language. that's what they felt like the president isn't currently doing now. >> how did they react to what he says time and time again, that being i'm not a racist, the least racist person you'll ever interview. what do they make with how explicitly he deals with the subject? >> interesting, i asked that question and many of them said i think he is a relic of a generation past. and many said we don't think the president knows better. we don't think he's having intimate conversations about race that would inform his opinion on it. so they really felt like this is a man who may be trying, but isn't actually succeeding. he isn't quite reaching top shelf when it comes to the effectiveness of that messaging. >> morgan, thank you very much. appreciate it. this isn't the first time president trump has tried to
appeal to black voters. perhaps you remember this. >> look how much african-american communities have suffered under democratic control. to those i say the following. what do you have to lose by trying something new, like trump? what do you have to lose? >> i remember a moment back in michigan in 2016. let's turn to the panel. joining me is jason johnson, the politics editor at the root. laura bassset. laura, i want to start with you, i want to play a congressman gregory meeks. he explained why he will not be attending the state of the union this week. >> the best thing for me to do, i will be in the building, i will be in my office, listening very attentively. i will go back to the media and to my constituents thereafter to
give my response to what the president has to say. but for the sake of the institution, i cannot give this man who does not respect me the respect to be in that audience. >> laura, so he joins now the ranks of more than half a dozen congressmen who are not going to be in the chamber for that speech. the state i don't have the union has pageantry. is it different this year? >> absolutely. it will be interesting for black congressmen to have to sit in the audience and listen to trump talk to them after trump specifically said that people shouldn't be coming over from haiti, shouldn't be coming over from african countries. how many years ago did white people drag africans over here and force them into slavery. it's the most ignorant comment a
u.s. president has ever made. it's a pretty obvious move for them to not want to sit in the audience and listen to him talk. >> jason johnson, i want to get your talk on this conversation how to protest the state of the union. there's been a long conversation over the last year about norms. what's normal, institutions and things that are normal in washington, d.c. and how they might be having been eroded the last year. what do you make of folks opting not to go to this thing, which has become an institution, whether or not somebody from their party is in power? >> well, david, i've got to be honest with you. this isn't the first time that black members of congress have had to listen to a racist talk to them for 90 minutes. we're talking about the history of this country. there have been black congress people around for years, they had to lynn to regular, bush, clinton whose wife called black people super predators. donald trump is not the first president to say things, or more importantly to enact policies hostile to african-americans. so, look, if somebody doesn't want to go, they don't have to go. i generally think that you
should attend the state of the union, even if you are unhappy with what the president has to say, fine, you turn your back on him, don't stand up. but i understand the people who don't want to go. what i think about is this, and i know this is difficult for some people to imagine. at some point, unless our entire democracy shatters, donald trump will not be president. and the last thing we want to do is let his inappropriate behavior, and potential corruption erode the norms we have lived by. i do want to see a day again where people are willing to go to the state of the union, even for a president they don't expect. >> respond to the issue of norms. >> jason makes some good points. we are going to outlast donald trump, whether we're seeing the first cracks through what mueller's investigation, what that might lead to, whether it takes until november of this year when perhaps congress changes hands to perhaps we have to wait until 2020 when people come to their senses, and a real democratic candidate can stitch
together a winning electoral college victory. we made it through eight years of george bush somehow. we made it through eight year when ronald reagan somehow. ronald reagan, trust me, i lived through it, he was much more genial and even more intelligent than donald trump, which isn't saying a whole lot, but he was a disastrous president. we had to endure it. we will get through this. >> laura, i want to ask you about what the white house has laid out here, the themes he's likely to talk about, the role of the speech, the usefulness of it. he's going to talk about infrastructure. he talked about that a year ago. how does the white house view this. >> >> he views it like all his rallies, trying to get the approval of his base. which is getting increasingly small. but he knows exactly who he's talking to and knows the red meat he needs to throw at them to keep them applauding for them
in their houses. i think it's going to be a divisive speech, going to focus on immigration and the wall. and i don't think it's going to do a lot to set forth an agenda that means anything. >> bill cohen, last question to you. you focus on the economy a lot. this is something the president is touting. i look at his twitter feed this morning. jay z was on -- >> because of my policies, black unemployment has just been reported to be at the lowest rate ever recorded. there's a long tale to a lot of these things. what do you make of the way he talks about the economy and the effectiveness of this rhetoric? >> he's on dangerous ground frankly. if he wants to start taking credit for low unemployment th ife wants to take credit for high stock market, he will have to take credit when they reverse. it's inevitable, a ten year or nine year bull market, a nine
year or ten year decrease in the unemployment rate. these are long tails, as you said. let's see if mr. trump is still boasting about his performance in the stock market and unemployment when things turn the other way. >> jason, lastly to you, i saw you shaking the head as we saw the president taking on jay-z. >> give me a call when black unemployment is still not twice the national average of white americans. stop taking credit for stuff you haven't done. the president is notorious for this. i am sick and tired of politicians claiming that a life of relative economic mediocrity where we are still systematically locked out of dozens of professions. what have we got to lose? we've seen it with a white nationalist president with policies temporarily beneficial to this economy. but long term, because of several moves he's made, will not benefit the vast majority of african-americans or anybody
else in this country. >> thank you. still ahead, the stars will be out tonight for the music industry's biggest night, the grammys will be taking place at the garden. will the light shine on the me too movement that's dominated other awards ceremonies? ♪ one click gives you access to discounts on thousands of hotels, cars and things to do. like the fairmont mayakoba for 59% off. ♪ everything you need to go. ♪ expedia. ♪ if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed
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welcome back. the 2018 awards season is in full swing. this year the conversation around sexual harassment in hollywood's most powerful m have taken center stage across entertainment industry. but the music business has remained relatively quiet. tonight are the grammys. in the past musicians have made the grammys a political platform. in 2016, kendrick lamar referencing the black lives matter movement. a number of celebrities have agreed to wear white roses to show support. will the ceremony have its own me too movement? >> i mentioned the roses. what's that going to look like?
how did that come about? >> well, it was really a grassroots last minute movement, about a dozen women, 14 women in the music industry in new york got together on monday, days before the ceremony, and realized the music industry is not doing anything as with the having people wear white roses to the ceremony. and i think, you know, they pulled their sources, their connections in the music business, to get artists to do it. now it's taken on a life of its own. there are going to be white roses handed out at the red carpet for a lot of people to wear. >> why did it happen this way, do you think, when you contrast that with the black dresses at the golden globes? clearly, a lot of forethought went into that, but why does it seem so different? >> i think if you look at the spirit of the music industry, it's been about rebelliousness and bucking authority, not conforming. sex, drugs, and rock n roll, so when you are in an industry that
seems to celebrate misbehavior, it's hard to galvanize a me too movement when the spirit of the industry is to buck the movement, buck tradition. i also think if you look at a numberf female artists in particular, the window for success is so narrow and a career can be so fleeting, unlike hollywood, in fact, when you can be an actress over 40 and have a career. there are not a lot of 40 year old or 45 year old pop stars, so if you want to be successful in this industry, you have a narrow window, you're usually extremely young and at those times in your life you don't necessarily want to be the face of a movement like this, because it could negatively impact your career, it could destroy your career. >> i want you to respond to that, and i look at the bad actors in the music industry, classical music, a number of conductors have been called out and removed, russell simmons has been at the center of controversy, you mentioned that, he denying the allegations made against him saying, "i look
forward to my day in court, where unlike the court of public opinion, i'll have the ability to make use of fair processes to make sure justice will be done and the full truth will be known." why haven't we seen more here in the music business? >> i think there's a lot of answers to that question. i think one reason is that it's not as centralized an industry as hollywood. you don't have a person like harvey weinstein who is sort of a household name, has at least awareness from the oscar campaign season, from the movie theater, from your indie art house you go to see. there's not a figure like that in the music industry and i think the people who do hold power are often, you know, in the studios, producers, definitely not household names. as difficult as it is to come forward with painful stories when the figure you're accusing is not somebody that's publicly known, it makes it scarier because you don't know if there's going to be public support. >> you had an interesting point in a piece you published a few days ago.
this industry, the music industry, is truly male dominated. of the top songs in the last five years, 12% had female song writers and 2% had women producers. when i saw you say that, i was stunned. we understand that it's a male dominated industry, but to know that it's that slanted makes it extremely difficult, again, for women and young women, which make up so much of pop culture to come forward. >> that was a study from a lot of research into this gender disparity. >> startling. let me ask you what you'll be watching for tonight. i think looking back at the golden globes, there were individuals we were looking to speak out. are there individuals that you're going to be looking to tonight? >> i'll be watching out for kesha. she was one of the first and only faces of the me too movement of the music industry, who accused her producer, dr. luke, of treating her poorly sexually, mental abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and was
one of the first and only faces that's come out in recent years. she will be performing tonight. her people have said she will be addressing this issue. i've heard that she's going to have quite a performance, so expect something really strong and powerful, but also i think it's important to realize that kesha did face a bit of a backlash from the industry for coming forward, and it did negatively impact her career. >> dr. luke denied the allegations and they wound up in a court battle. >> he countersued her. taylor swift gave her money for her defense fund and lady gaga, kelly clarkson came forward. it hasn't caught fire the way it has in other industries, but we remain hopeful. >> anybody you'll be looking to besides kesha? >> one thing that's notable is lorde, nominee for best album of the year, only female artist who's been nominated and she actually is not performing. she's the only best album nominee who is not performing.
i don't know if that's a statement of protest on the part of lorde, but it is, i think, notable. any time you have somebody as vocal and inspiring and creative as her on stage in any capacity, that's something to watch out for, so i hope we get a moment of her on stage in some way. in our next hour, reaction to reports president trump pushed to leak a classified document by republicans. first, giants of the tech industryei i on the daca debate. >> you look across the globe and have some of the most talented people who want to come to the united states, they want to come, they want to work in our industry, the other industries, as well, and that actually helps with building a great company. it would be a problem if we had all this great talent and they wanted to go to other companies and we were saying we are having a problem, we can't recruit those people. >> she joins recode co-founder kara swisher and ari melber to discuss how we deal with
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hello, everybody. state of the union, can the president persuade democrats and the nation to follow his lead on a number of goals he's setting for the new year, and will turning to a new generation of the kennedy family be the magic democrats hope can counter that message? daca debate. the president using twitter once
again to drag democrats into a fight to get his border wall. but the president's own base is lashing out at his idea of a so-called compromise. release the memo, that's the online buzz mr. trump and republicans are making over a report alleging fbi spying abuses. the likelihood we'll see that happen and why so many on capitol hill, including his own justice department, are against it. let's start this hour with president trump's first state of the union address. the theme on tuesday, building a safe, strong, and proud america. the president's speech could be marked either as a turning point for a presidency that's so far seen unfavorable approval numbers or a moment of great peril. as the president delivers his address, the shadow of mueller's russia probe will loom large. joining me now, jeff bennett. i want to focus on unity, something the president says he's seeking out in that speech on tuesday. how's he going to strike that tone? >> a