and the massive popular uprising in deep red trump country. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. it would be one thing if jared kushner used his position of the white house to benefit his family real estate business. that would be bad. i mean, that's your standard run-of-the-mill style corruption. again, really bad. a big deal scandal if true, but also, the kind of thing you've heard about before. maybe in state or local government. okay, but it would be another thing entirely if jared kushner actually shaped american foreign policy to punish countries for turning down deals with his business at the expense of u.s. interest. and that is exactly what special counsel robert mueller is trying to figure out according to a new exclusive from nbc news. mueller's team asked about

efforts from the properties focusing on his discussions during the transition with individuals from qatar and turkey as well as russia, china, and the united arab emirates. kushner's company has struggled to refinance its flagship property at 666, i'm not making that up, 666 fifth avenue in manhattan in $1.4 billion in a year from now. looking to foreign sources to try and pay it off. we know from the intercept that kushner before going to the white house had tried and failed to get a bailout from the former prime minister of qatar. examining those talks according to nbc news and taking specific interest in a meeting at trump tower between the then president elect son-in-law and the former qatari prime minister during the transition in 2016. that failed deal was not the end of the kushner family's efforts to secure that qatari money. today, the intercept broke the

news that kushner companies went on to seek funds directly from the qatari government last april. jared's father, charles, meeting with the country's finance minister here in new york to convince him to invest in fifth avenue building. the deal fell through, get this, and then just a few weeks later after the deal was rejected and declines to invest in the qatari business, this happens. >> we turn out of the diplomatic crisis erupting in the middle east. five nations with qatar and qatar is a key u.s. ally in the fight against isis and president trump appeared to side with its accusers. >> catch that? last june, saudi arabia and the uae organized a blockade of qatar. the secretaies of state and defense set to work trying to fuse this situation but then the president of the united states appeared to not get the memo publicly siding against qatar.

>> has been a funder of terrorism at a very high level. for qatar, we want you back among the unity of responsible nations. we ask qatar and other nations in the region to do more and do it faster. >> the time suggested jared kushner may have been behind the very remarks. at least that was how secretary of state rex tillerson, remember, tillerson trying to put out the fire. different u.s. allies going apparently to kind of cold war with each other but rex put two and two together, close associate and concluded this absolutely vacuous kid was running a foreign policy in quarters. four sources tell nbc news the qatari government officials visiting the u.s. in late

january and early february considered turning over to mueller what they believe is evidence of efforts by the persian gulf neighbors in coordination with jared kushner to hurt their country. carol lee is part of the team that broke that story and brian grim with intercept one of two bylines in that publication and i'll start with you. what do we know about what mueller is asking about? >> what he's asking about is whether questions along the lines of figuring out if there was any link between kushner's discussions foreigners during the white house policy. involves as you nicely laid out, qatar and other countries. the second thing is that mueller's office reached out to foreign nationals which is expands the universe of witnesses that we kind of thought he might be talking to in specifically he's reached out to the fbi in ankara and in turkey to see if he could

connect him with foreign nationals. that's significant. >> yeah. >> and the fact that the qatari government officials have decided for now not to go and talk to mueller is interesting specifically because they wrestled with this for days while they were here on this visit and as our sources were telling us, they felt like things were going well. they had discussions with secretary of state and the secretary of defense and others and they didn't want to do anything that might jeopardize that. >> that part of the story blew my mind. you see the problem with the conflict, right? it flows in many directions and ryan, what was so important about your piece and coordination in sort of put together the nbc news piece is carol's describing right, this conflict. there's these parallel things that jared kushner is doing. we know his family is looking for various sources of foreign money to inject into a cash starved property. we also know jared kushner is running a lot of foreign policy.

your story says basically gets the two as close together as you could possibly imagine. ask the qataris for money and then the full force of the u.s. government is slammed down on qatar. how involved was kushner in that? >> extremely involved in the policy. without kushner, we might not have the blockade. and just so people know, this blockade is ongoing. i think they lost chad the other day but saudi arabia and the uae is still blockading the country. food can't go in through certain channels and this cold war, very nearly became a hot war. there are reports that the emirates considered invading with this and it's not just all silliness. the yemen crisis and the humanitarian disaster is tied into this because of the way the politics play out there. saudi cares more about the yemen

war and the uae cares more about qatar and so there's sort of a quid pro quo going there with saudi going after qatar and then uae goes after yemen. facilitating this entire thing is helping to explode an epidemic in yemen while we're at it. >> jared kushner is at the center of this. two pieces of information. kushner goes to saudi in 2017 in october. days before the head of the saudi government essentially purges a whole bunch of saudi oligarchs. reporting jared and mohammed salman had a kind of a slumber party. swapping stories, planning strategy. this is kushner at the center of the policies in the middle east that is very dangerous and high stakes that happens after one of

the parties to this rejects an offer to put money into his business. >> and there are federal laws implicated here. you cannot advise on a policy if the policy, you know, knowingly is going to benefit you. he still owns this, a huge stake in his family company whose entire fortune is kind of tied to whether or not this 666 property collapses because these real estate companies are cross collateralized and steve bannon kind of gloated about this in michael wolf's book if that property goes down, he says everything else goes down with it. the entire family fortune is riding on this and he's setting foreign policy in the middle east while his family's company is trying to extract money to save him. there's absolutely federal laws implicated there. >> am i wrong that kushner has not come before mueller yet? >> he spoke to him, what we know.

>> that's right. >> what we know is he did speak to mueller's team briefly right before the flynn deal was announced. he went to have conversations, but that's, as far as we know, that's it. >> i would imagine, i don't know what your white house reporting says, there must be some nervousness about jared kushner. >> yes, yes, there is. people, not just people in the white house and working with kushner but people who are working with him saying he seems to be rattled this week. >> carol lee and ryan, phenomenal reporting today. really remarkable, these two stories in the way they complement each other in terms of getting the clear picture. thank you both. for more on the stakes, harry litman and under president obama now an msnbc analyst. harry, i'll start with you. are there any federal laws implicated here?

>> a whole range of them. what ryan was talking about is our ethics laws that apply to executive branch officials. let's say at a minimum, this stinks to high heaven. it's crazy that we can even ask the questions that ryan and carol's reporting provokes. is he using his office to settle scores or exploit financial gain? is he being played for a patsy? is he subject to blackmail? it just means it's not in the interest of united states for jared kushner to have this kind of roving commission he's had but there are a series of criminal laws as well that this could implicate. one is just good old fashioned bribery, but it's going to be a little bit hard to prove that after the mcdonald case but there's one more i wanted to mention. i don't want to hog the air waves but your point that he hasn't been interviewed i think

is a huge one because there's no way to do the obstruction case without. he's everywhere in the obstruction case. >> right. >> and the fact he hasn't been interviewed, to me, you have to interview him before you start to negotiate with trump and the fact that he hasn't suggests to me that his lawyer has told mueller's team that he won't talk to them. he'll instead plead the fifth amendment. otherwise, we would have heard about that. >> nothing like the kind of. >> that's in november. >> nothing long-term like we've seen in other players in this. i'll give a best case scenario and get your response. the best case scenario is, look, the u.s. is a strong partnership with saudi arabia and thinks mohammed ben salman is the best thing in the world and qataris

are cracking down on terrorism and part of this rising shia and this is a perfectly correct thing to get involved in and on the side of the united emirates and the saudis. what do you say to that? >> i think the thing we're forgetting in this conversation is that qatar is hoim to air base that hosts more than 10,000 service members and qatar being a crucial member of our counter-isil coalition and a country that helped us free hostages from other al qaeda affiliates and when you think about qatar in relation to saudi arabia and it's a mix of counter-terrorism partners. saudi arabia does not have clean hands when it comes to counterterrorism. it's hard to parse the two. the best case scenario here is this was run-of-the-mill corruption. this was just something that was purely unethical or illegal but was it more than that?

worst case, what we look at is a policy move that was dictated not by our national interests but jared kushner's personal interests and the implications of that being national security was jeopardized. at a few days, we were at rhetorical war with a key ally that hosts thousands of u.s. troops. fortunately, secretary tillerson and mattis able to inject themselves in a strange brew of jared kushner and donald trump and steve bannon. had it not been for that, the service members could have been in grave jeopardy. >> not only that, harry. but ned, an expanded aperture. this is one example where it's a sort of chronological tightness. please bail us out because we're in control. no? okay, we're now at war you. but you've got turkish money. the russians. we met with the head of the transition. there's other places with a

foreign policy while also seeking foreign dollars raises a lot of questions. >> you're exactly right here. there's a temporal circumstantial case here. we're able to see that in may, donald trump went over to saudi arabia the month before this deal with the qataris apparently fell apart and in june, donald trump sent these tweets condemning qatar. it's consequential process here. but donald trump along with his son-in-law, jared kushner, both called into question the u.s. adherence to the one china policy. and then jared kushner, a week after the election, met with the head of one of the largest chinese banks and discussed a $400 million loan for his company and all of the sudden once again the trump administration is backing the one china policy. there are other instances of that where the case is a little

bit more circumstantial and we don't have this coincidence of sequencing but i think it's all there if you read through the lines. >> is there precedent for this? someone like jared kushner running around with the exposure he has? >> wow. we have had situations like this. offhand, i think of john connelly during the nixon administration but basically, this is the most tangled web i've ever encountered. i think what ned says is right. this is the very best scenario and just that we're asking these questions, it's nuts. it is nuts that he's conducting this roving foreign policy for the united states when there's so many points of vulnerability. it's just beyond the pale. >> harry litman and ned price, thank you for your time tonight. white house domestic abuse scandal takes another turn. another story that's provably false. we'll tell you what john kelly is trying to sell this time in two minutes.

turning an impromptu off the record conversation with reporters of the white house today, chief of staff john kelly went on the record with yet another version of what he knew and when about former white house staff secretary and accused spouse abuser rob porter. quote, the first i heard of a serious accusation against him was on the sixth of february. the accusation was late in the afternoon, and it was simply one of his two former wives that claimed she had some level of emotional abuse. he didn't learn the physical abuse until the second story broke but the daily said that's false. quote, february 6, 4:40 p.m. daily mail approaches the white house with detailed allegations of emotional and physical abuse against rob porter, made in an interview by jennifer. second wife. what is your case that john kelly is not being truthful when he says that he was not told about physical abuse? >> so the daily mail was very clear in its original account to the white house that it was in

fact physical abuse, that the wife was alleging against rob porter, so it seems that there might be some sort of a disconnect between the press office and perhaps what john kelly was told, if he's saying he didn't know that there was physical abuse and it was just emotional abuse. there seems to be a disconnect between the white house press office and john kelly overall. if i could flash forward to the next day on wednesday, john kelly saying he told rob porter it was time to go on tuesday evening but on wednesday at the white house press briefing, after 1:30 p.m., sarah sanders gets up at the podium, reads rob porter's resignation and says he's not even leaving anytime soon. there will be a transition

period of some sort. so those two things don't really jive, especially because the white house also right before the press briefing brought in several other reporters and allowed porter to essentially tell his side of the story. >> that's right. and not only that, jon kelly puts out a statement testifying to rob porter's great character after you broke your story in which jennifer said she was dragged naked out of a shower and when there's a picture of a bruised eye, a black and blue eye of the first wife, the white house said john kelly stands by his original statement, correct? >> that's correct. he did not change his statement at all until that evening, roughly 9:30 p.m. on wednesday that the white house even updated john kelly's statement about rob porter and even then, he said, this isn't the man that i knew him to be whatsoever. it's not as if any where and there. i told him, he has to go. he was fired. they were maintaining he resigned and left on his own terms. >> i want to bring in white

house post reporter jennifer ruben. what's going on here? >> you got me. i think john kelly is a lot of trouble and engaged in this death match with jared kushner and ivanka. clearly the president is very upset, so upset he probably started a trade war because he's so upset with john kelly. everyone is just covering their rear ends here and inconceivable, not only he didn't know as francesca said until the 6th but for an entire year, he had no press clearance. john kelly came in the summer. apparently, he was told in the fall somebody was told in the fall he wasn't going to be getting his clearance. so it was john kelly not told about that or not known the details? none of this hangs together. and i think it's really reflective of the fact that john kelly is on thin ice, he felt compelled to go back to the well, five or six scandals already and try to clean that

up. >> so here's jennifer responding for jessica. i want to get your response to this. didn't feel rob should resign until he was accused of physical abuse. i'd file add protective order and called the police on several occasions and i detailed pulled naked from the shower. there's a substantive point where what john kelly understands as fireable or disqualifying for the white house, right? >> he's saying he was only aware that it was emotional abuse at first and some sort of a messy divorce but i cannot stress enough that the daily mail told the white house press office that it was domestic violence and it was physical abuse and went through the allegations from rob porter's ex-wife. so certainly, the press office was aware of exactly what would be running in the daily mail. >> he said today, jennifer, i have nothing, absolutely nothing, this is john kelly, absolutely nothing to even consider resigning over. we didn't cover ourselves in glory in terms of how we handled that on wednesday morning. it was confusing.

>> it must be confusing for the chief of staff. i think that's the problem. he says lots of things not going as he would have liked them. same thing with clearances in general. too many people had them. whose job was that? that was his job. there's a disturbing pattern in this administration that people in charge tend to be spectators in their own administration. he is in charge of that white house. if he didn't know, why didn't he know? i think, frankly i'm stunned they're going back to this. could be arguing about many other things, and other things transpired but this must have stuck with him and the president. >> great reporting to break that story initially. thank you both. coming up, exclusive reporting from nbc news. unplanned trade war because he was furious about the news cycle. the unglued president in two minutes.

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one of the many questions we still had after the president's tariff announcement yesterday was what exactly prompted such a sudden decision? well, tonight, thanks to an nbc news exclusive report, we might have an answer. according to two officials, trump's decision to launch a potential trade war was born out of anger at other issues. gary cohen, top secretary and steve mnuchin tried to talk him out of it but became unglued and spurred on by wilbur ross, just put that up there while i'm reading. he was angry and gunning for a

fight and he chose a trade war. stephanie ruhle, one of the reporters who broke that news with nick. what's your reporting about the mood inside the white house that pushed the president towards the decision? >> bad day for trump. hope hicks leaving. upset about john kelly and wasn't happy with jeff sessions that day. president trump was not in a good state and also remember, he's without rob porter who did serve as sort of a filter. so wilbur ross makes his way in and president trump has had these views on trade as has wilbur ross for quite some time. but it's really just been wilbur ross and his side kick peter navarro. not john kelly or the defense department, the state department, the treasury department. no one knows about this. wil bur ross scheduled with ceos of steel companies and nobody knows who they are.

nobody's been vetted. the white house said, well, these were people who have most been here before. yet no one knew their name. there was no legislative plan to tell congress. there was no diplomatic plan to tell other countries, other allies and the white house council's office was doing a review of possible tariffs on steel that's not going to be done for another two weeks. this came out of absolutely nowhere. >> so there's a sort of substance and a process question. put it to the side. we debated this in a fascinating debate with leo and the steel workers and stephanie, but process-wise, like, this is really far a field of how something like this would normally work, right? >> well, absolutely. i mean, you would consider a policy change like this very judiciously and engage all sorts of stake holders in the government and outside of the government. it would take time.

you would have a plan to roll it out. there would be an engagement period, even before you did that with the public likely but this is the thing. it makes me wonder, i mean, not wonder so much, just be concerned that if the president is willing to take action like this and knock 500 points off the dow in one fell swoop, when he's worried about other things or angry at other things, what else is he willing to do when the net sort of tightens, the mueller net tightens around him? i think we'll see more. >> that's what i was saying. it's preferable to an actual trade war for now. >> if this is what blows off the steam, better to aluminum. >> behind the white house lawn or whatever. there's a process of constraining the president at all times from things he wants to do and to be honest on this one, we knew he wanted to do that and his own staff running around trying to slow roll him

for a year. who should be surprised that he finally said, guys, i'm the president. i want this. >> he was surprised when the market dropped and when steve mnuchin and the rest of them up and what is the market doing like this and it was actually general kelly who, you don't hear sort of defending the new york bankers often who said to the president, these guys told you over and over, this was going to happen, sir. >> you know, there's also this question about like the policy making process when you think about foreign policy and war, right? so this really has me worried. i have to genuinely say. the president of the united states has incredible military power. >> year over year, the au we passed after that allows us to wage global war anywhere in the world at any time for any reason. here's something that caught my eye last week. the pentagon secretly planning for north korea last week. table top exercise. okay. held over several days in

hawaii. a number of pitfalls in well entrenched military. the pentagon's limited ability to evacuate injured in the peninsula. also the 2,000 casualies to expect in the first day of fighting. is this something you worry about? >> yes, and let me say this. let me temper this a little bit. i do hope not because trump is so reasonable but reasonable national security people around him he gave an order to do something that didn't need to be done, they would stop it or so horrible. >> wait a second though. wait a second. i want to stop you there. it's the united states. he's the president of the united states. he gives an order. >> let me finish. what i'm worried about is on the margins because there are all of these decisions you make as president about national security and using the military where you could exercise restraint or you could do it and those are the hard decisions. those are the hard decisions that presidents make.

there are a lot of them all the time. what happens on the margins? so something where we could take action but we don't have to. there may be other options but justifiable kind of to do it and you could explain it. that's what i'm worried about. >> chris hayes, also, history has shown, kind of all talk, right? i mean, even this. now he's pushed this off a week, so what are you going to see happen in the white house? they're going to scramble and try to get him to swallow this and not do it. bullies talk a big game. and point and push you in the chest with their finger but how many of them actually take a swing? have you seen president trump actually take a swing that often? on twitter, great, come get me. >> yes, he called it down the block tough. yeah, right. but and that's totally true. he can't even fire people. the guy who ran the show, can't fire people in person but there is a question of like, these two things happening.

the people falling away, keith shilers, bodyguard not there anymore. still getting paid. hope hicks, not there anymore. jared kushner is in a lot of trouble it looks like, et cetera. and the mueller probe and whether the unpredictability ratchets up. >> he's the first president where ever who does things because he's mad or does things policy-wise despite his own staff or he's in a bad mood and we know from the reporting in the white house, from the post and "the new york times" and from nbc, he does it a lot and losing the emotional support people around him that he's had in the white house who keep him from having these jags. so who knows what's going to happen? >> this is why i start to find this jared kushner and javanka, if you will, they are his security blanket. in the end, they're not going anywhere, but if they were to

leave the white house and no longer has that security blanket and all of this other stuff is happening, then i think we have plenty to worry about. >> trump's swaps beloved burgers for salads and soups in new diet. yes, makes you cranky but bone chilling to imagine what that can produce. thank you for joining us. still ahead, why the nra boycott having more of an effect. and thing one and thing two starts next.

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thing one tonight. the trump administration and interior secretary ryan zinke did something never literally been done before. reduced lands that had previously been designated national monuments by prior presidents. one called bear's ear's national monument in utah which they reduced by staggering 85%. before that when ryan zinke rode around on a horse at bear's ears last summer, the review process about preservation, not oil drilling. >> it should be preserved. >> you know what? yes, of course, the legacy and what i've seen should be preserved. the issue is whether the monument is the right vehicle or

not the right vehicle. what vehicle of public land is appropriate to preserve? the culture identity to make sure that tribes have a voice and make sure you protect the traditions of hunting and fishing and public access and we also have a pretty good idea of oil and gas potential, not much. so bears ears isn't really about oil and gas at all. >> at all. not about oil and gas at all. wouldn't it be absolutely galling if the opposite were true?

we also have a pretty good idea of certainly the oil and gas potential. not much. so bear's ears isn't really about oil and gas at all. >> that was ryan zinke, secretary of the interior saying, and i quote him again, bear's ears isn't really about oil and gas at all. so of course, today, "the new york times" reports oil was central in the decision to shrink bear's ears monument e-mails show from the start of

the review process, agency directed staff to figure out how much coal, oil, and natural gas had been put essentially off limits. utah senator warren hatch's office e-mailed a map with oil and gas sites that beared ears. it was incorporated in almost exactly into the much larger reductions. last month, that land opened for new mining and drilling leases. >> i'm actually optimistic because will make a recommendation that i think will be best for our country and best for preservation.

what's going on is everyone in america is seeing how the working class citizens are being treated in west virginia. it's time for the places of those in important and focus it on the top. >> there's something absolutely wild happening right now in west virginia. that scene you just saw is from the capital building in charleston where teachers now on their seventh day of a wildcat

unauthorized strike are giving a warm welcome to a supporter who's come to visit. that supporter? the man you saw talking is democratic state senator named richard o'jetta, a tattooed tough talking army vet running for congress something of a celebrity in the movement and all of this happening in one of the most conservative states in the union. the heart of coal country where we held a town hall to talk to voters in the country and announced he was switching to the party with donald trump by his side and this, this is the place where 20,000 teachers from every single last one of the last 55 counties in the state are engaged in a week long grassroots strike over their salaries and crucially rising insurance premiums. those teachers who live in a state that spent years cutting taxes over and over for businesses and watching its revenue shrink and people whose pay ranks 48th in the entire nation, those teachers are still taking tear of their students

while their schools are closed. they have pooled their own money to host free lunches and hand out bags of food to make sure the 67% of west virginia kids who qualify for free or reduced price meals are still getting fed. we don't know how much longer the strike will go on. the governor announced a plan to raise salaries by 5% earlier this week but said, no, they're holding out. they're on strike to fix the state health insurance plan they said it's too expensive. we do know that this kind of thing we're seeing is very rare. strikes almost basically never happen anymore in america and strikes like this pulled up by workers who do not even have collective bargaining rights in their own state, nearly unheard of recently. it's really a testament to the turbulence of the political moment we live in that whole new vistas of mass action are certainly coming into view and i would venture that there is yet more over the horizon.

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we took it as a slap in the face by delta. the people here in georgia love our country, constitution and second amendment. we have to represent the people here in georgia and not corporate interest. >> when delta airlines announced it was ending a discount program, nra members threatened to retaliate. they killed a proposed break for jet fuel sells that would benefit delta, one of the state's most largest airlines. i want to bring in michelle goldberg who observed here a few days ago political and consumer unrest in this country with josh bower who argued in business insider, they are taking more left leaning stances and tara

who is an expert in marketing and communications and i want to return to the point. it's been so fascinating to watch this play out. in which political power in this country is tilted towards older, more conservative, particularly rural americans, consumer power in this country, the things that brands care about, the kinds of people are younger, more diverse and more urban and nothing is more clear what politicians are doing post parkland. >> i don't think the natural place to turn to for gun control is big corporations but -- >> i agree. yes, that's not the solution. >> people are making it a consumer issue because they are shutout of the process because nra has such a lock on the government despite the way people are forced to turn to whatever avenues of influence are open, which in this case are sort of consumer power, it's not ideal and then it creates a

situation where gun owners feel even more cultural embattled because they feel like even walmart and krogers are turning on them. >> the culture war is everywhere. >> right. i think it's interesting in part because you say the 13 tickets thing with delta, it reflects how symbolic this is. not like delta is getting out of a lucrative line of business compared to fedex resistant to making changes because fedex is in the business of shipping things related to guns. if they took a stand, that could have a significant cost. >> dick's sporting goods. >> walmart, they are taking significant steps. what fraction of the gun sales are between 18 and 20? >> dicks, someone publicized their estimates, millions of dollars in sales. it's not nothing. it's somewhere between 13 tickets being sold. >> itself protective, right? dick's said as soon as they saw the shooting they went through

their own records to find if cruz bought a gun from them and he did but it wasn't the gun used in this massacre. there is an element we don't want to be the company that sells the next shooter his ar-15. >> i agree with that 100% because there is a reason they went through that exercise because imagine the pr risk if you are the company that sold that and there is increasing pressure, remember, before this started, there had been pressure on teachers' unions with the pension funds, pressure on groups that are typically left leaning groups that also invest. >> right, to use that money. >> and that started with other issues before this issue but now with this issue being elevated in the way it has been by the youth, now that targeting is happening and you seen black rock come out, black rock, the mega investment company say they are putting pressure now on gun retailers to make changes and that matters. >> what is fascinating is the

effect where republicans are like screw you delta, i'm not sure the jet tax was good policy, anyway. i suspect it probably wasn't. the jet tax cut for delta. it reinforces personal persecution. everyone hates gun owners and we're a raid across corporate america and the corporal echelon. >> it's amazing. i've seen several friends post how proud they are to fly delta in the wake of this and i think, you know, as we've seen a retreat of social institutions, people don't go to church as most, less likely to serve in the military, what draws us together is corporations and brands. >> depressing. >> on some level, people seem to get joy. people identify. lacroix water. >> that's different. that's a way of life.

>> some people say i'm a delta person. >> right. >> so when you identify that with a brand it starts to make sense to expect the brand to express your political value. >> and an interesting column saying there is something scenical at play here. he calls it the rise of capital. corporate activism is an intention with tax policy and stinginess in paychecks but the activism exists to justify the ways of ceos to cultural power brokers so those same brokers will leave them alone in realms that matter more. >> exactly. what realm matters the most are tax cuts and favorable policies, tax breaks, incentives, all of that matters most. they aren't going to make concussions on that? >> no. >> they will lobby and fight for that so when they can make these concessions, the notion that this is just not. it's not. will activists take it? yes.

>> yeah, i was skeptical about how much this is going to work in general although two hours ago on this network, i saw a panelist saying you don't mess with delta. if they want a tax break, give it to them. maybe the capital thing is working. >> there is this generational issue. there is a generational divide in political preference that opened up. it usually is not the case there is such a wide divide between young voters and older voters. >> and not just partisanship on guns. you have an older generation where it is the norm to have a gun in the house, and you have a younger generation where it's increasingly not. it's an increasingly foreign way of life and so it doesn't have any sort of symbolic value. >> yeah, i've seen some data, it's hard to find really reliable numbers on this but looks like frequent travelers are somewhat more democratic than the country as a whole and it makes sense that gap would

widen with the globalest versus nationalist perspective. people more eager to travel more might be becoming more in line with the globalist political coalition. >> and other people moving into cities. there is in the past older people moved down to the suburbs, that was your way of life and younger people moving into cities and guns and cities are not ideal. >> there is this fact that these kinds of people that the political system don't have much power in the political system, right? there are 30 u.s. senators representing states with a smaller population than queens. >> uh-huh. >> okay? >> right? so that's the balance in the united states federal government. the consumers of queens matter. there is a lot of them and they are young and diverse. >> there is a lot of people looking for any way they can to express political power. you're seeing that around special elections for state legislative seats drawing national attention. whether that's i can vote and

elect someone to my state legislature or i can pressure delta to drop -- yeah. >> michelle goldberg, josh, tara thanks for joining me tonight. that's great. that is "all in" see you monday. we, the jury, find the defendant guilty. >> you actually think they read the wrong verdict. >> you feel so alone and hopeless. >> it's like a shot in the chest. >> despair to hope. darkness to light. a fight for freedom. >> what happened to this teenager could happen to any one of our children. everyone should stand up and take notice. >> at 18, he was arrested for murder. adamant he was innocent. >> there was no physical evidence to tie him to the crime.