for women. a hero, really, and the world's youngest nobel laureate. malala burst into tears at the prime minister's office, saying, i can't believe it is actually happening. this photo comes to us courtesy of pakistani state ministry and getty images. what an image it is. thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live with me. now, more news with my colleague, chris jansing. >> you have to pause and realize in this moment, when we have seen the power of young people, how she set the standard for fighting for something to make things better. extraordinary. one of my personal heros. thank you, steve. >> yup. good morning. i'm chris jansing. stephanie ruhle and ali velshi are off. it's thursday, march 29th. let's get started. >> the veteran affairs secretary shown the door, and he is tapping his own doctor to fill

the post. >> ronny jackson. who months after giving the president a clean bill of health. >> he had a healthier diet the last years, he could have lived to be 200 years old. >> he has no experience managing a sprawling government agency. >> like asking someone who hasn't ever climbed a mountain to begin with mt. everest. >> presidential pardons in the russia probe. john dowd discussed offering pardons for trump's former top advisers, michael flynn and paul manafort, as mueller closed in on them last year. >> one basic question. was john dowd on -- out on his own freelansing? was he simply running his mouth talking to other lawyers, or was this at the behest of the president? >> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this. he's got his statement on the record saying that there's no discussion and there is no consideration of those at this time for the white house.

>> the lawyer for porn star stormy daniels has been seeking for a judge to declare that his client is not bound by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement about her interactions with president trump, since donald trump didn't sign the document. the attorney representing the president attorney's michael cohen, but not on this matter, said the president had no idea about the agreement or others that cohen arranged. >> michael cohen signed the deal. donald trump didn't. you are claiming that michael cohen, the president's fixer, ray donovan character, never, ever told donald trump about it. >> never told him. >> michael cohen dispensed $130,000 of his own money and never sought reimbursement from donald trump? >> 100%. >> come on. no one believes that. >> it is rare to see one tech titan go after another in public. >> this morning, apple's ceo tim cook taking aim after facebook ceo mark zuckerberg, whin an interrue inte

interview. >> mark zuckerberg, what would you do? >> i wouldn't be in this situation. >> let's start with president trump's white house doctor, now a cabinet nominee. in what's been a rapid lineup of firings and hirings. va secretary david shulkin is out. he, himself, president trump, made the announcement on twitter. shulkin is not going quietly, with a "new york times" op-ed this morning on why he believes he was fired. quote, the advocates within the administration for privatizing v.a. health services saw me as an obstacle to privatization who had to be removed. i have been falsely accused by people who wanted me out of the way. he finishes with this provocative statement. as i prepare to leave government, i am struck by a recurring thought. it should not be this hard to serve your government. your country. this morning on npr, shulkin defended himself against criticism for bringing his wife on an official taxpayer funded trip to europe, and repealed he

couldn't speak about it until now. >> this was being characterized as a european vacation. it was far from that. this was official business on nights and weekends. i went out. never used government money for that. the single expenditure spent was on a coach airfare for me wife, who was officially invited. everything was pre-approved by the ethics committee. when the inspector general didn't like the way my staff handled the approve, i wrote a check back to the government. this was completely mischaracterized. there was nothing improper about this trip. i was not allowed to put up an official statement or to even respond to this. >> not allowed to respond to this. as for shulkin's replacement, dr. ronny jackson, he's a naval officer who served in iraq and was president obama's doctor, as well. in fact, he served over three administrations. he has no experience managing bureaucracies. you'll remember him though as the doctor who gave president trump a glowing bill of health

during this memorable briefing back in january. >> age 71 years and 7 months at the time of the exam. height, 75 inches. weight, 239 pounds. he would benefit from a diet that is lower in fat and carbohydrates and from a routine exercise regimen. he has a history of high cholesterol. the president is very healthy and be remain so for the duration of his presidency. >> can you explain how a guy who eats mcdonald's, all the diet cokes, never exercises, is in as good of shape as he said he's in? >> called genetics. i don't know. some people have great genes. you know, i told the president, if he had a healthier diet the last 20 years, he might live to be 200 years old. i don't know. he has incredibly good genes. it's how god made him. >> other questions as part of your exam, about the president's mental fitness, he called himself a stable genius.

can you discuss his mental fitness. >> no concerns about his cognitive ability or neurological function. i was not going to do a cognitive exam. the reason we did the cognitive assessment is plain and simple, because the president asked me to do it. the president did exceedingly well on it. that was not driven at all by any clinical concerns i have. it was driven by the president's wishes. he did well on it. >> if confirmed, ronny jackson would be the fourth v.a. secretary since 2014, when the department was rocked by the scandal that shocked the nation. a v.a. hospital in phoenix was accused of waiting veterans wait 115 addays to see the doctor, leading to 40 deaths of patients there. there was, quote, unacceptable wait times and questionable scheduling practices to hide the delays. with no experience in management and responsibility at the white

house for a handful of people, jackson would be taking on something completely different. the nation's second largest bureaucracy after only the defense department, with a budget of $186 billion a year. a workforce of 377,000 people in the u.s. alone. there's an additional 4,000 v.a. employees working outside the country. jackson will have to deal with major issues surrounding veterans themselves. more than 20 million vets across the country. only about 9 million are enrolled in a health care program. the department says about 20 veterans die every day by suicide. and the v.a. is fighting its own opioid crisis. federal data showing veterans are twice as likely to die from accidental overdoses as non-veterans. with all this on his plate, there's a serious recruiting problem, as well. there are an estimated 1,400 unfilled doctor positions in the v.a. there's a need for more nurses and a need for more mental health care professionals. joining me to talk about all

this, melissa bryant, an army veteran who is the chief policy officer for the group, iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. and nbc military analyst general mccaffrey, retired four-star general and former national security council member. melissa, the "military times" reports last year, congress passed nine veterans themed legislation, including overhaul of how veterans benefit appeals cases are handled. shulkin wrote in his op-ed today that he's proud of what he's accomplished at the v. ravma. you know shulkin. do you think his firing was called for? >> unfortunately, the writing has been on the wall. forces have been undermining him at the v.a. it is a massive bureaucracy. all of the problems that you covered in the top of the segment exist for the nominee, the president's nominee, to handle, but -- >> is dr. jackson the person to take it on? >> you know, that remains to be

seen. i mean, he obviously has an exemplary military career, but it remains to be seen, whether he can handle the massive bureaucracy of the v.a. >> yeah. i mean, it's a daunting task for anybody, general. jackon son is a navy rear admir served presidents bush, obama and trump. led a medical unit in iraq. he knows what it is like to be out there. is he qualified to run the second largest department in the u.s. government. >> it is a highly unusual nomination. you look at this doctor's background, he's been the honor graduate of everything he did in his entire life. he's been involved in navy special ops. he's been deployed in combat. he spent 12 years in the white house, and he's got the confidence of the president. those are all the good news. the bad news is, the biggest unit he managed was 40 some odd medical people in the white house. that v.a. system which, by the

way, if you're in the v.a. system, like my brother-in-law, 101st combat air force veteran, they love it. it is great medical care. but the giant, bloated, needs to be modernized. you have to outsource and let veterans, particularly in rural areas, go see the civilian health care providers. he's got his work cut out for him. i hope they get him a good chief of staff and competent people. don't politicize the agency. >> let's talk about that. sort of what you eluded to. that's, i think, going to be what we're going to hear a lot about. this is a position that congress is going to look at. at the heart of the questioning, i think, will be that fight over whether to privatize the department. the president has said there should be at least some more privatization. let me play for you what richard blumenthal had to say about this this morning on msnbc. >> it's a little bit like asking someone who has never climbed a mountain to begin with mt.

everest. the v.a. is the mt. everest of public managing, both in significance, dealing with the nation's heros. there is no excuse for failing to meet the highest standards. also, in terms of difficulty, because it is a sprawling bureaucracy. >> melissa, where does your organization stand on privatization? >> we are 100% opposed to privatization. our members are definitely split in the performance of the v.a. as a general statement, most of the members of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, when they get to the v.a., they're very satisfied with the care they receive, but there are access barriers to care. it really is a challenge in getting the veterans the care they need. 20 suicides by day is obviously a sobering statistic we deal with day in and day out. we want to see that improved upon. so, seeing, you know, whether admiral jackson is up to the challenge of this, again, it remains to be seen.

>> supporters of privatization, general, say -- and you eluded to this, you talked about people who live in rural areas, people who want to have choice -- they say the current system hasn't worked. you've got to try something different. at least privatization will give veterans more options, better access to care. but is that the only answer here? >> no. i mean, you also go to -- we have real integrity problems in the v.a., as well. the former chief staff of the army had a problem because they weren't telling him what was going on. at the end of the day, the v.a. is a national treasure. no question. you don't want to do away with it. i do believe, like the military retirees from active duty, we have an option of either going to a military active-duty hospital or to a civilian clinic. i would prefer to go to walter reed rather than anywhere in the country. having said that, you know, we do have access to domestic health care system. i think our veterans need the

same thing. there's just too many of them. we've got to right size the organization. congress is a real impediment to sensible management. they fight over keeping their three hospitals in the same city. there's got to be some rational approach. by the way, poor rear admiral jackson, looks like a spectacular naval officer. it is not just the health care system. that's veterans' benefit. the nation is incredibly generous to the veterans. he is supposed to be running 131 cemeteries for gosh sakes. he's got a real challenge coming up. we admire his youth and energy and his willingness to take it on. >> general mccaffery, melissa, thank you so both of you. this is an important conversation, and it is not over yet. up next, digging into the trump/russia investigation. intrigue for possible presidential pardons for michael

flynn and rick gates. who reportedly floated the idea inside the white house? what president trump can actually do within the law. there's much more ahead today. 11:45 a.m., president trump is set to leave the white house for cleveland, ohio, where he'll speak on infrastructure at a center for apprenticeships and training in richfield, ohio. that's 2:00 p.m. 3:20, he leaves for palm beach. he'll spend easter weekend there. you're watching "velshi & ruhle," live on msnbc. than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. ♪

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we are back with questions about possible pardons for president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn and former campaign chairman paul manafort. the "new york times" and "washington post" reporting president trump's former top personal attorney, john dowd, floated the idea of pardoning flynn and manafort last july. as special counsel, mueller was building a case against flynn and manafort. flynn accepted a plea deal and is cooperating with mueller. manafort pled not guilty. dowd told the "new york times," quote, there was no discussions, period. as far as i know, no discussions. he resigned last week. ty cobb said in a statement, i have only been asked about pardons by the press and have routinely responded on the record that no pardons are under discussion or under consideration at the white house. here's press secretary sarah

ha sanders. >> can you say no one here discussed pardons in this case? >> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this, and he has a statement on the record saying there is no discussion and there's no consideration of those at this time at the white house. >> joining me live now is attorney charles. if this is true, could it constitute obstruction of justice? >> it could. here's why. you have john dowd who, at the time, was the president for donald trump -- >> lawyer. >> lawyer, i'm sorry. lawyer for donald trump. asking about pardons on behalf of flynn and manafort, who he did not represent. the question is, who asked him to do this? was he doing this on his own accord or on behalf of donald tru trump? now, flynn and manafort are two people who could provide, potentially, incriminating evidence against donald trump. the idea that you would dangle the notion of a pardon to two people who could provide information that is really important to this investigation,

about whether or not they could bepart pardoned, would compromi the information they would tell the special counsel. this is to determine whether donald trump or anyone in his campaign had anything to do with russian interference in the 2016 election. it definitely smells like obstruction of justice. >> there is an argument that we have heard from the white house, and the president suggested, i believe, as well, that he is the president. he can pardon whoever he wants, whenever he wants. >> there are some limits. there are some limits to the pardon power. one, he can only pardon someone who has been convicted of a felony, a federal crime, not a state crime. also, he can't pardon himself. i think that's one of the biggest things that, you know, he has tried to insinuate, that he has complete power. you should always be careful in a democracy when the president uses the word "complete power." it is very scary.

it sounds authoritarian. this is a democracy, and many checks exist on this president. although, we do see congress not necessarily doing what they're supposed to do in terms of checking him. we live in a democracy. we ought to be nervous when we hear the president of the united states saying he has complete power. >> yeah. again, the white house has denied this. the problem, obviously, for the white house is they denied things in the past that turned out really did happen. >> exactly. >> if this happened, if dowd was doing this on his own, not at the president's behest, how does that change the equation? >> i think it is unlikely that he was not doing it on the behest of the president. it is very unlikely for an attorney to start becoming -- >> freelance like that. >> yeah. to be rogue. it is also important to focus on what he said. he said there were no discussions. doesn't mean he didn't bring it up and they said, next topic, you know what i'm saying? he said, as far as i know. there are a lot of sort of statements he made that are

mitigating, that may point to the fact that, perhaps, this was addressed. >> always good to have you on the program. thank you. >> thank you. up next, a plot twist in the stormy daniels saga. an attorney representing president trump's personal lawyer said the president had no idea about the porn star's non-disclosure agreement or the payment. could that complicate things for the president? now for some science. as we speak, oh, come on, give me a clear picture because this is so cool. two nasa astronauts in the middle of a 6.5 hour space walk. this is the pair working on renovations to the international space station. live pictures coming to us. they're installing wireless equipment, replacing video cameras, fixing cooling equipment and, yeah, all in zero gravity. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. (vo) more "doing chores for mom"

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welcome back. i'm chris jansing. here are the top stories we're watching right now. president trump personally called comedian roseanne barr to congratulate her on her epic return to television. more than 18 million viewers watched the revival of her sitcom, "roseanne," on tuesday night. that's 10% more than the

original sitcom's finale 21 years ago. barr and her tv persona are both trump supporters, and the president call put her over the moon. >> they said, hold, please, for the president of the united states of america. you know, that's about the most exciting thing ever. we always like to be current and, you know, talk about the things that are happening in our country. we always have on our show. we want to do it more. >> a federal judge says he'll allow a lawsuit to proceed that claims president trump improperly profited from his washington, d.c. hotel. that suit was filed by washington, d.c. and the state of maryland and alleges the president took illegal foreign gifts, violating the constitution. president trump's lawyers asked to dismiss the suit. in arizona, a teacher strike could be imminent as thousands are expected to protest again today for better pay. they're asking for a 20% raise

and millions more to be spent on classroom needs. right now, arizona's first-year teachers make $34,000 a year. that is $4,000 less than the national average. overseas, south korea and north korea set a date for that historic, high-level talk. friday, april 27th. south korea's president, moon jae-in, and north kim jong un, meet on the southern side of the borderline. a meeting between kim jong-un and president trump hasn't yet been announced. david schwartz, a lawyer representing trump's personal attorney, michael cohen, said the president had no idea about the non-disclosure agreement and payment daniels signed in 2016. >> seems like a simple question. you are cohen's spokesperson in this. can you say the president was never in any way aware of the

$130,000 or the agreement itself? >> the president was not aware of the agreement. at least michael cohen never told him about the agreement. i can tell you that. you asked a whole bunch of questions. let me cover that. >> mm-hmm. >> you asked about 12 days before -- >> what about the money? >> he was not aware about any of it. >> okay. >> he was not aware. >> okay. >> wasn't told about it. michael cohen left the option open. that's why he left the option open. an option to go to him. he chose not to. >> other lawyers suggested he threw cohen under the bus. saying he made trump party to a legal agreement he knew nothing about. if he department knidn't know a means there was no contact between trump and daniels, and daniels can put any proof she has out there. more to come. i want to bring in white house correspondent for the pbs news hour. and ann, an attorney and legal analyst. moments after schwartz's interview, as we said, those lawyers said, i can't believe what i'm hearing.

does it surprise you? >> well, yes. ethically, a lawyer can't bind a client without talking to the client. why was he out on his own, getting the signatures from the other side, and then paying out money? it doesn't make any sense. he can be up in front of the new york bar for this, at a minimum. it doesn't make any sense. also, it puts this in a position where there can be true discovery, which the white house isn't going to want. i.e., a deposition of michael cohen, as requested, and a deposition of donald trump. >> yeah. in fact, schwartz was on with megyn kelly just a few hours ago, and here's what he had to say about the depositions. >> let's start with avenatti, the other lawyer for stormy. he's seeking to take the deposition of michael cohen and president trump. is that going to happen? >> absolutely not going to happen. not in this case anyway. the case itself is completely frivolous. >> that's what we keep hearing from the white house. how worried are they about where this is going and how, every

day, there is some other thing that keeps it in the news? >> i think you can surmise that because president trump is being tight lipped about this, he's been told this is something he needs to be cautious about. whether or not they're worried, whether or not this is actually going to turn into a violation of campaign finance laws, is something hard to come by, but the idea is, the president usually punches back. he usually has been on twitter rants. usually, he's not shy of calling someone a liar. stormy daniels' lawyer said, come to the podium and call her a liar. say it didn't happen. president trump is not doing that. the fact he's not doing it tells me as a reporter that watched him attack gold-star families, attack all sorts of people, union leaders, that this is something he is choosing to be tight lipped on for a reason. >> schwartz did provide an insight into exactly, ann, how this operates. he called michael cohen a fixer.

he actually, basically, said, look, this is what he does. he takes care of things. many of them, the president knows nothing about. is that what lawyers do? >> you know, not on a daily basis, i'll tell you that. hasn't been my practice for a lot of years. the fact is, he's basically going to have cohen, i think, fall on the sword and say, i did it on my own, so trump isn't implicated. the fact of the matter, we had a state court action, dealing with a narrow issue of whether or not the signature would mean there is a contract or not a contract, or nondisclosure a -- agreement that is binding. because the arbitration is at issue, trump's lawyers are saying, we want to enforce that. stormy daniels' lawyers are saying, we get full discovery because they already went to an arbitration without her and got a restraint against her speech.

bottom line is, you know, the trump white house, and michael cohen wants to stay out of here and out of litigation, but getting into litigation will be a thorny path. i get nothing in nature can be sliced, you know, so thin, it can't have two sides, which this does, but going down the path of litigation is something they want to alive. >> to her thing that is interesting to me about the silence by the president, and i think you're right about the fact that somebody, obviously, has cautioned the president and said, you know, this is not something you want to be just tweeting about or going off the cuff about, you know. all you have to do is look back to bill clinton and see what happened when he went into a deposition and, ultimately, he was impeached. having said that, what does history tell us about this? he was not a guy in private business who shied aidwy eied a legal fight. >> what it tells me is, usually, president trump is able to be restrained, but he usually then goes on some sort of rant, either on twitter or in front of

a big crowd. today, he is heading to ohio. he'll be around supporters, around people who are pumping him up, making him feel good. he feels really good on the road when he's in the crowds. that's when you see him start attacking things like the nfl kneeling, saying problematic things. in this case, he's going to be having to get off the air force one. he'll have reporters screaming at him about stormy daniels, asking questions. he'll get in front of a crowd screaming his name. as a reporter, you have to watch today's speech very carefully. the president is probably going to be tempted to want to talk about stormy daniels. >> oh, you know what, you are so right about this. i mean, anybody who has been at those before, and not just that, i mean, how many days has it been -- i should know this, but how long has it been since reporters have had a chance to actually talk to the president? he's not been out there. he's not been making public appearances, right? >> it's been -- >> this is an fuopportunity for him to get stuff off his kwhche >> several times since he's had

a press conference. every time there is a foreign leader next to him, he takes a couple questions. it's usually questions he's hand picked or someone said, okay, these two reporters can speak. he has yet to come for a long time in front of the podium, in the briefings, which i go to almost every day, and it is always sarah sanders. the president said, free for all, what do you want to know? part of it is because of stormy daniels. >> it will be interesting to watch what happens in richfield, ohio. thank you, both. this just in. rachael ray's pet food brand said on twitter they're pulling ads from laura ingram's fox news program. we have to show you the string of tweets that leads up to this. ingram tweeted yesterday, making fun of parkland high school shooting survivor david hogg, quote, david hogg rejected by four colleges to which he applied and whines about it. dinged by ucla with a 4.1 gpa.

totally predictable given acceptance rates. hogg tweeted a list of ingram top 12 advertisers, encouraging his followers to boycott the companies. nutrish replied to david on twitter, we are in the process of removing our ads from laura ingram's program. remember, this comes after the day where a young woman wrote a beautiful op-ed in the "new york times," saying, stop victim blaming. just putting that out there. the facebook data breach, meanti meantime, threatening another online titan. goog google. both companies continue to collect personal data every second of every day. what you can do to protect yourself. and an msnbc exclusive. apple ceo tim cook taking aim at facebook's mark zuckerberg. those harsh words next. we'll explain how this is affecting the markets. the indexes have been moving all week on news of tech giants. we'll explain how it has been

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facebook is making changes amid the fury over how it has been handling your personal data. the latest move shuts down a program that enables third-party providers from targeting certain users that the company says it will help improve user privacy. facebook is facing at least five

lawsuits in federal court. all of it coming because of allegations that cambridge analytica harvested the personal information of 50 million unsuspecting facebook users. a technology consultant's tweet storm recently went viral after he discovered just how much of his information google was storing without him realizing it. dylan says after requesting data, google stores your location every time you turn on the phone, if the setting is on. he post add picture showing every location he had been to in ireland for the past year. the timeline included the time he was there, how long it took him to get from one place to the other. dylan says google creates an ad profile based on your information, including gender, age, hobbies, income, even your weight. if that's not enough, google stores your bookmarks, e-mail, google drive, files, youtube

videos, photos taken on your phone, products you bought through google. a google spokesperson says, in order to make the privacy choices right for them, it is essential people can control their google data. over the years, we've developed tools, like my account, expressly for this purpose. we'd encourage everyone to review it regularly. joining me, ben, senior business reporter who wrote all about this for nbcnews.com. and anchor and correspondent, david, who covers the economy. what it seems google is saying, this is your responsibility, not ours. >> we've been doing this for years, and we've given you the link to check it out for years. my account.google.com. >> writing that down. my account.google. >> my account.google.com. go now. >> okay. >> yeah, the onus is on the consumer. we kind of think, all right, we give up a little for the data,

maybe the advertisers know -- >> to this extent? when you have somebody like this guy, who is probably smarter than the average person about what's going on in this business, is shocked by it. >> different to see it laid out one by one. this can horrify an i.t. consultant, regular america is waking up, too. >> how do we see all this information, david? >> my account.google.com. >> i was struck by how beautifully this is illustrated for you. i think it is the inherit passivity of this. all that google is collecting without us knowing, just because we want to be fast or easy. it's displayed beautifully on the screenshots we saw. also beautiful for advertisers, as well. i checked and my profile said i was older, lived elsewhere, but it is astonishing to see what they collected. they use it differently than facebook might, but a clot of information.

>> i don't even know how much i weigh. but tim cook went after facebook and mark zuckerberg in an exclusive interrview on msnbc. let's take a listen. >> we could make a ton of money if we monetized our consumer. if the consumer was our product. we could make a ton of money. we've elected not to do that. >> mark zuckerberg, what would you do? >> what would i do? i wouldn't be in this situation. >> well, i mean, that's how zuckerberg makes his money, right? i mean, this says to me, tim cook is saying, we need regulation. >> yeah. it's kind of a wild and woolly and unregulated world for the platforms. they've been collecting vast treasure-troves of our data, largely unbeknownst to the sleeping, great masses. it seems like some kind of regulation is coming. they've had a chance to fix this. facebook knew about the cambridge analytica violations for years, and they didn't do

anything until their hand was caught in the cookie jar. >> they won't say whether or not zuckerberg is going to go before congress or when. we're waiting to hear that. then you have amazon. >> yes. >> the president and these reports that he really wants something done about amazon. he has friends who are whispering in his ear and saying, this is killing shopping malls. this is killing a lot of businesses. we're seeing businesses like toys "r" us going out of business. he even tweeted about it today. i have stated my concerns with amazon long before the election. unlike others, they pay little or no taxes to state and local governments. use our postal system as their delivery boy, causing tremendous loss to the u.s. and they're putting many thousands of retailers out of business. is this true? >> many things wrong with that. the taxes in particular, amazon has been progressive at paying taxes as states demand they do. this goes back to 1967, a law that if you are a catalog company, you don't pay sales tax if you don't have a physical presence in the businestate you

doing business in. there has been a gulf between washington, d.c. and silicon valley. silicon valley, because of the geographics, we able to enjoy life without much influence from government. it is starting to change. in the context of cambridge analytica, you had wiley, the whistleblower, testifying before uk parliament this week. it went on for hours. there was a sense that lawmakers are trying to reckon with all the companies are doing. the same is happening more in d.c. >> one of the other stunning things he said in the testimony in the uk is, we're underestimating, actually, the number of people whose data was used in this way. thank you, guys. appreciate it, ben and david. we're going to see a lot more, i want to point out, of the interview with tim cook. "revolution: apple changing the world," hosted by chris hayes, next friday, april 6th, at 8:00 p.m. eastern, only on msnbc. w n. starting with advanced manufacturing

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the unarmed young man who was killed. all captured on police video. officers say they thought he was holding a gun -- it was his cell phone. the shooting, 20 bullets, sparked days of protests that show no sign of stopping. clark is among more than 200 who have been killed by police this year alone. when nbc's kristen welker asked press secretary sarah sanders about this spate of violence, things got a xwbit heated. >> these are local issues. and this seems to be an issue with the entire country is grappling with, these tensions between communities of color and police departments. does the president not need to show leadership on this issue? >> look, we certainly -- when the president has talked about a number of issues, we want to find ways to bring the country together. certainly not looking for any place of division. i think you've seen that in the policies that he's put forward. he wants to grow the economy. wants to do that for everybody.

he wants a better america for every american, and that's been a repeated thing out of this white house. but when it comes to the authority to -- on the rulings that have taken place in the last few days, those are things that have to be done at a local level and they're not federal decisions at this point in time. >> but there are a lot of african-american moms all across the country feel as though their sons are dying. >> joining me, dante berry. i just wondered your reaction when you heard sarah sanders say this is a local issue. >> everyone understands the value of what it means to be safe in this country. i feel very appalled and kind of displeased to hear the sentiment by the press secretary. because this should be an issue that the president of the united states should definitely care about. as we've seen protests take place over the last five years,

six years, around police violence and vigilante violence happening to both black communities and communities across the country. >> every movement, social movement, has ebbs and flows. certainly there have been various periods in the start of the black lives matter moves that grew out of police shootings. they did seem to be out of the headlines for quite a while. now they're back in. how do you make this moment count? how do you say to the -- stephon's family, this isn't going to be just his death, this is going to spark change. what do you do? >> first and foremost, i think when it comes to families of folks that have been impacted by police violence, this -- and you would hear folks like trayvon martin's parents and jordan davis' parents talk about how they're joining a community in which they hope to never have to

ever really experience. so first and foremost i definitely want to send my condolences and deep support to the family that's experiencing this. but at the same time, i think in this moment -- right -- again, we all understand the value about what it means to be safe in our communities. and i think as we move forward in this new political moment, we have to really start to talk about how communities have been devastated by poverty and economic injustices in our country. we have to talk about the constant disinvestment in black communities in particular in which folks, at the root of violence, is actually a feeling of displacement and a feeling of not having adequate resources in our communities to take care of our communities in these moments. so i think at the heart of this, we should definitely be expecting more outrage and more protests and more deliberative

organizing moving forward. >> dante berry, executive director of the million hoodies movement for justice, thanks for taking the time. we appreciate it. this is a picture that just came from the white house pool. the president is going to head to marine one, going to ohio to talk about infrastructure. but if we go in on that picture, you can see he's standing there with hope hicks. he pointed to her. he waved at the cameras before walking alone to marine one. hicks of course his communications director, one of his longest serving advisors who said at the end of february she was leaving. this is her last week at the white house. we'll be right back.

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now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. time now for our "monumental american," someone who may be deserving of more recognition. in honor of women's history month, today it is groundbreaking photo journalist margaret white. she was the first white house staff photographer shooting this image on the first cover in 1936. she covered world war ii, first photographer to work with the armed forces. she stunned the world with her photographs of concentration camp victims and survivors in 1945. one of her most famous images, this -- taken of gandhi in 1946. bourke-white died in 1971. thank you for watching this hour of "velshi & ruhle."

i'm chris jansing in for ali velshi and stephanie ruhle. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," doctor's orders. david shulkin is not going quietly. >> some people have just good genes. i told the president he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years he might live to be 200 years old. that's just the way god made him. pardon me? the president's personal lawyer apparently floating the idea of pardz for mike flynn and paul manafort while the special counsel was building a case against them. is that out of line? >> i think it is a safe bet that mueller and his team know a lot more than what's become publicly available here. and prime beef.