that's a wrap for me this hour. i'm alex witt. turning it over to my recently returning from vacation colleague, david gura. from msnbc headquarters in new york -- breaking news. dozens reportedly killed in a suspected chemical weapons attack in syria. president trump calls out russia's president, vladimir putin, by name saying russia was at least partially to blame for that attack. power outage. a new report on white house chief of staff john kelly's swi dwindling authority in the west wing. talk the president discounts as garbage. the president's economic team defends the tariffs his separation has posed against china. we begin with the suspected chemical attack in syria and president trump's spouresponse

it. it took late yesterday outside the capital city of damascus. the attack killed dozens of civilians, including children. some of the images from the aftermath are so disturbing we can't show that to you on television. this morning, president trump called out russian president vladimir putin by name accusing him of being complicity in that attack tweeting, quote, many dead, including women and children in mindless chemical attack in syria. area of atrocity is in lockdown and encircled by syrian army making it completely inaccessible to outside world. he continues, president putin, russia and iran are responsible for backing animal assad. big price to pay. open area immediately for medical help and verification. another humanitarian disaster for no reason whatsoever. he concludes -- sick. jeff bennett covers the white house for nbc and jeff, this has been a strong response here from the president to this attack. what are white house officials saying? >> well, it certainly is a strong rhetorical response.

president trump leveling what is his most direct criticism yet at russian president vladimir putin. president trump saying that putin bears responsibility for this apparent deadly chemical weapons attack in syria. the president is also pinning plame for this situation on former president barack obama's syria policies. remember in the summer of 2013, obama said that syria had crossed a red line then by using chemicals weapons against its own civilians but failed to follow up with air strikes. the state department, david, is also weighing in on this with this statement -- "these reports, if confirmed, are horrifying and demand an immediate response by the international community. the united states continues to use all efforts available to hold those who use chemical weapons, in syria and otherwise, accountable." now white house homeland security advisor tom bossert said the president's national security team had been reviewing photos and information

throughout the night and into this morning as they weigh weather or how to respond. take a look. >> this is one of those issues on which every nation, all peoples, have all agreed and have agreed since world war ii is an unacceptable practice. >> is it possible there will be another missile attack? >> i wouldn't take anything off the table. >> reporter: i can tell you, based on guidance from the white house that we do not expect an on-camera statement or any sort of movement from the president tonight, although i'm told president trump is meeting tomorrow with senior military leadership, david. >> how does this complicate the president's policy position? just a few days ago he was talking about getting all u.s. troops out of syria as quickly as possible. i imagine this could cause him to re-evaluate perhaps the statement that he made a few days back. >> yeah, for sure. remember he said he ideally wanted to start bringing home troops within a six-month period but relented saying that the troops would stay until the mission is done. that's based on the almost

unanimous view among military officials that withdrawing u.s. troops from syria now would be a mistake. so as we wait to see how the trump administration may respond, remember, it was syria's use of chemical weapons against civilians that prompted president trump last year to strike that surprise military strike against assad's military. the president at the time framed it as a moral choice, but there are those who point out that this latest atrocity shows that air strikes in isolation do not work. that's why you have people like senator lindsey graham who say the president needs to show resolve on this issue and have some sort of strategic coherence. graham says this is a defining moment for the president. >> jeff, thank you very much. jeff bennett at the white house for us. for mnow, i'm joined by a former double agent and author of "how to catch a russian spy." and kevin barron, executive editor the defense one which focuses on news and analysis of

u.s. defense. koec kevin, this morning the president's tweet -- big price to pay. how do you begin to think when you think about what the president has said in recent days? >> i think you need to immediately speculate about air strikes, will there be a response at assad using this connection cal atta chemical attack as a legal justification. syria pals has been all over the map in the last two weeks. a real mess. a lot of people need reminding i think that the u.s. has been actively striking in syria every day, every week, for several years now. but the difference is the counterisis campaign that is outside of assad's territory versus everything on the inside. there has been no decision on how to get to a peace right l f should say the white house. the trump administration is floundering. the u.s. military knows its limitation. it is that counterisis campaign.

the military didn't pay attention to trump twoeeks ago when he said we're going to get out of there very soon. they held their own nice and level and waited for a more smooth policy statement to come out. then this latest atrocity comes out. it is not the first this year or the first of the war but it is the one that's gotten enough attention from this president on a sunday via twitter. and like everything else we've seen with the president and the syrian war, let's wait to see what the policy will be, what the reaction will be and maybe as soon as tomorrow at pentagon. >> navid, it seems in recent weeks the president's looked at this conflict in a political context. richard engel focused on the disconnect between commanders in the field and washington proper. how does this attack change that conversation in washington, do you think? >> i hope that it changes in a way that kevin really highlighted. this shouldn't just be limbed to the anti-isis campaign but rather the nexus of what we're seeing here is russia. when you start talking about

russia and talk about targets as a strategic base to have a presence, the common denominator when it comes to destabilizing forces around the world, whether crimea, ukraine, syria or interfering in our 2016 elections is russia. until we call out russia and prioritize the threat of russia towards the u.s. and the world at large,hiss going to inue to happen. let'be vyill breathes the air that he breaes simply becse putin gives him sanctuary. i don't think put h any issue or interest in assad other than they want to keep that strategic base. so by putting pressure -- air strikes are going to happen, but by putting pressure on putin, perhaps you will see what should happen which is honestly a regime change. it is putin who keeps assad in power. until we lean on the russians, nothing in syria will change. simple as that. >> almost a year to the date the president spoke out after that chemical attack. listen to what the president said then.

>> it costrossed a lot of linesr me. when you kill innocent children, innocent babies -- babies, little babies -- with a chemical gas that is so lethal that people were shocked to hear what gas it was that crosses many, many lines. beyond the red line. many, many lines. >> kevin, he's talking about many, many lines. i want to ask you what happened next. i think back on that last attack, the response that you heard from the foreign ministry of iran, for instance, saying that that wasn't verifiable in their estimation. same thing happened with russia back then. we're seeing that now, russia and iran both casting doubt on what happened outside of damascus. i want to quote a little bit from the foreign secretary of the uk, boris johnson, saying latest reports must urgently be investigated and the international community must respond. should it be confirmed the regime has used chemical weapons again it would be yet another appalling examples of the assad regime's brutality and disregard

for its people and legal obligations not to use chemical weapons. how intractable is this situation when you look at the u.s. working with russia and other countries if you have loud skeptics like vladimir putin's regime? >> i think syria is such a mess of contradictions and of fake red lines that we've heard going back several years. i think it's one thing that if trump and the rest of the world woke up this week because of this atrocity. but this is just the latest one. if it was little babies getting killed, like he said -- i have a twitter feed that you should look at because i get these pictures almost every day but i get them across all of syria, including kurdistan held syria, where the turks are the problem, not so much the russians. turkey are the ones fighting against the same people as russia and syria is on the same side against the united states and against the united states coalition and syrian kurdish -- and arab sdf fighters there. so it is incredibly complex. but there are no red lines.

there are no absolutes here. if the united states wanted to lead in this situation they could lead in lots of ways. with greater military strikes, larger sanctions. if they wanted to do less, they could pull out. the problem is the president and this white house has not decided. the united states, especially special operators, are stuck on the ground. they've taken most of the territory. they have a lot more isis fighting to go but they don't know what's coming next. they don't know if they're going to be there six months or a year. there will be more air strikes or a peace process that ends in geneva because according to the u.s. military, that's the end mission. they're committed there until they get to a peace process in geneva and right now there is no u.s. leadership to make that happen from this white house. >> naveed, i talked about the geography a moment ago. this attack confined to a suburb outside damascus which is government-controlled. where does this conflict stand, as you see it? >> kevin again is also right have the kurds and turks who are

at war -- turks do not want to see an independent kurdistan and the kurds do. the kurds are our frenemy. we have russian-controlled -- assad is protected by the russian russian. and we have iran in there. all these geoexternal forces making a unified syria impossible because nobody wants to relink wish any territory. where the u.s. can weigh in is not air strikes. you can punish assad, do sanctions, which of course have an impact but the reality is assad will stay in power because the russians are protecting him. if we want to actually see at least the assad regime go away, then swree we have to lean on t russians. the reality is that today donald trump has not spoken one ill word about vladimir putin. things will not change until we change things will assad. >> getting congress to support any of that, also. >> thank you both.

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spending was somewhat more than his predecessor, sprucott pruit has received death threats because of his bold actions at t the epa saving the usa billions of dollars. scott is doing a great job. a group of lawmakers are calling for scott pruitt to resign, including three republicans, this as the "wall street journal report"ed that john kelly told trump pruitt has got to go. jason johnson, and lynn sweet with me as well. lynn, let me start with you. i've traveled to washington state and airbnb on capitol hill and i must confess, i've had trouble finding anything for $50 a night. >> what the president does is set the tone and ethics for his administration and the president said in a tweet he doesn't care about any of these allegations that are -- have arose out of

reporting. sound reporting. now the issue isn't so much i think whether or not $50 is the proper price or not. that can be established one way or the other. it is just the judgment that went into not -- into going into a deal with somebody who's in the lobbying business, period. because the appearance of impropriety is always at issue when you have someone. then there are the stories that he didn't leave when he said he would and the landlords got mad at him and changed the locks. so it wasn't just this one thing, the $50 a night. because you have to look at this whole picture there. there are multiple lapses. what i make of. is that president trump doesn't seem particularly to care. what we will watch for is not just if republicans in general say he should go. it's whether or not any of the leadership says that and whether or not there is a congressional inquiry as part of oversight of his agency. >> ken vogel, let me turn to you. your paper has done some fine reporting here on what scott

pruitt has done helming the epa, all that he's managed to roll back. i go back to the president's tweet about record clean air and water. on one side you've got this almost paranoid complex about security, private phone booth, et cetera, et cetera. on the other hand, he's made some strides here rolling back some pretty significant regulations. >> yeah. that's the inherent conflict that we are looking at here, david. he has been among the most aggressive of president trump's cabinet secretaries in pursuing this deregulatory agenda that is in many ways at the heart of what trump and certainly his most conservative supporters, those that are within the republican party and the conservative movement at large have wanted from a republican president. they're getting that from trump and they're really getting it from the epa and that's in an area where they really have a lot of interest. that is regulations related to the environment and clean water and clean air and the like. on the other hand, you have him running up this impressive track

record of, if not violations, certainly ways of how he has gone outside of what is expected and what the rules say a cabinet secretary has to do when it comes to approving spending to the point where we reported on thursday and friday that there were five people -- high-ranking officials within the epa, including trump political appointees, who had flagged these concerns to pruitt, and even to the white house, and those people were all either re-assigned, demoted, or put on administrative leave. the fact that these concerns got to the white house months ago and the white house did nothing is an indication of just what lynn talked about, that president trump is willing to trade the former that you talked about, pruitt's success in rolling back regulations, for any of these accusations arising out of his spending. >> you look at congress and the federal government in concert, now three republicans say scott pruitt should go. you had republicans there say

the first proposed tariffs they were following didn't seem to bother the white house at all. does it seem the white house is ignoring what many members of congress is saying? >> the messaging from this white house from the beginning has always been very complicated. rex tillerson would say one thing about trade and trump would tweet this or you'd hear something different from a mem of congress. there doesn't appear to be much policy coordination or philosophical coordination with what's going on and there doesn't seem to be any effort to change it. every time we're told john kelly's going to lock down on this or sarah huckabee sanders is going to be the final message. whether we talk about china, the environment, russia, we always get conflicting messages out of this white house. it makes it hard for civil servants to do their job if they

don't know the real message. >> let me ask you about the piece in the "washington post," about john kelg ly's position i general. the president tweeting about that "washington post" piece. "the washington post" is far more fiction than fact. story after story is made-up garbage, more like a poorly written novel than good reporting. i'm going to quibble that just reading one line from that piece. john kelly is the latest high-profile example of a west wing ikarus only to be singed and cast. >> the interest isn't that job kelly flew too close to the sun. that is not the issue. the issue is that donald trump in this unfolding, evolving management of the white house that he is engaged in, doesn't want a conventional chief of staff. so that is the issue. it is not really so much of john kelly is in or out.

i don't know how anyone could not have their role change, more or less -- you could do more, you could do less. but trump doesn't want a stable situation where you empower one person to do what other traditional duties of the chief of staff. that's what we're seeing unfold here. so it isn't so much that i think kelly told him that pruitt should go. clearly, the president can make these personnel decisions and not go with his chief of staff decision. the fundamental question is that john kelly has not figured out a way to be a chief of staff with a president who wants to govern by morning tweet to set the agenda, announce personnel change without notifying the pentagon and having a procedure and process to talk about sending the military to the border. so it would be hard -- we are seeing a new model of a chief of staff and john kelly for this point in history is kind of caught in this new structure that trump wants to place him,

meaning one day he kind of wants a traditional chief of staff and one day he doesn't. >> jason johnson, last question to you. we had these town halls about gun violence yesterday. you and i have had occasion here over the last few weeks to talk about gun policy or heading into the mid-terms, you made a comment about the georgia governor's race. i know you want to clarify something you said a couple weeks ago. >> it is interesting. we were talking about whether or not the parkland kids' message about gun control is really going to resonate. i think it had. you look at georgia governor's race where stacy evans was attacked by one of her opponents was because she had a b-plus rating. i mistakenly said a-plus. the evans campaign was no, no! we have a "d." what's interesting is three years ago nobody would cared. the fact that you have red state democrats who are attacking each other over nra ratings is a reflection of the fact that gun control has now become a hot button issue. it is not just going to be associated with, paland kids. it is going to become a wedge

issue for democrats in red, blue and purple states in the fall. >> thank you all very much. immigrants whose journeys fired up the president to send thousands of troops to the border. we'll go live to mexico with the so-called caravan that sparked the controversy.

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we've got a leaking boat on our border and we're all quibble be with how much water is in the boat and how fast we're bailing it out. >> that was white house homeland security advisor tom bossert today defending president trump's move to deploy the national guard to the u.s.-mexico border. the pentagon announced defense secretary james mattis has approved sending up to 4,000 troops to the border in an effort to curb illegal immigration. the plan calls for an immediate deployment of up to 500 troops. so far texas is sending 250 members of the national guard, while arizona will supply 150. in pueblo, mexico, mayor yamarit do you make of the caravan making their way towards mexico? >> reporter: this is a ycritica

juncture in that caravan. in this church that you see behind me, 1 of 4 makeshift shelters in the heart of mexico. these migrants are deciding whether they will continue to mexico city and seek asylum in mexico or continue as it was originally planned in midweost their cases to the u.s. border. the red cross has also set up make-shift tents here. a lot of them need medical attention. we're told out of the 550 people left in this caravan, 200 according to organizers are children younger than 11 years old. so the caravan is to about one-third of its original size. they're dealing with health issues. they're dealing with resources issues. and as you can see from the people in this park behind me -- this is where we're sort of hanging out for the day as they decide what they will do tomorrow, most of them are families. most of them are children. and these are the folks and the faces that, as you said, president trump is using to justify sending over 4,000

troops to the u.s. border. >> you are talking to them, they are weighing what to do next. as they wait how much are they thinking o are hearing about what the president of the united states is saying? >> what president trump is saying and tweeting has spread throughout through word of mouth mostly because many of them are not monitoring social media, evidently. but their argument is very simple. they are here and dragging their small chrn and families in many cases for over 500 miles because they fear gang violence. political repercussion. and lack of economic opportunity in their home country. so they are undeterred by the president's words. they say they have one goal -- to get to the u.s. border and to reach the american dream. >> thank you for your time. with me now, ray suarez, visiting professor of american studies, author of "latino americans, the 500-year legacy

that shaped a nation." i want your reaction to the scale and size of this making its way up to the u.s. and your reaction to the rhetoric out of washington, the president in particular? >> well, a continent-sized country of 327 million people seems to be afraid of a couple of hundred people, almost half of them children under 11 years old, trying to make their way to the border. if they're fleeing social commotion, if they're fleeing societal meltdown, we in this country haven't gotten rid of our refugees policies. if they made it to the united states, their claims would be assessed. the danger that they may face if they were returned home would be assessed, and they would either be allowed in or not. a majority of americans still want america to be open to refugees. the president, by exaggerating the threat, that's politics. that's part of what leaders in this position do.

he has a particular point of view toward these people. he doesn't want them to enter the united states. >> you mention exaggerating those issues. looking at the statistics, the number of apprehensions along the u.s.-mexico bordard in marc 2018, 37,000. in march 200017, there has beenn uptick. your reaction to the president now sending the u.s. national guard down to the border. >> well, 2 out of 3 illegally resident people in the united states, people who didn't come with the benefit of our immigration laws, came through visa overstay. they entered the country legally, and then they overpaid their permission to be here and they remained. a wall would not stop those people. the people who are here without benefit of papers, without documents, who didn't follow our

immigration laws have been here, on average, 10 1/2 years. so they aren't the people who are coming over the border. that number has dwindled to a fraction of what it wwas earlie this century. post 9/11 we've beefed up border around increased the number of border agents. but each individual border agent is now apprehending fewer and fewer illegal crossers as that number dwindles. >> ray, what are you going to be watching for over these next few months? my understanding from secretary mattis' statement is he's authorized 4,000 guard troops through september, just for a few months. greg abbott, governor of texas, says he'll send 250 down to the border there in texas. what are you going to be watching for as all this plays out? what do you think the next steps are for the federal government? >> the last two times the national guard was sent down to our southern border, during the obama years and during the george w. bush years, it was at

a time when there was greater anxiety as the president was trying to -- as the president is trying to gin up at the moment -- with what went down at the border. we know from reports, from the department of homeland security, the national guard was involved in very few apprehensions, very few interdictions. i want to see what the terms of their presence on the border are, the equipment that knellth be bringing down there and what kind of support the border patrol will be asking for. they've been handling the numbers that are trying to cross very well. what -- this isn't as much about policing. it isn't as much about patrolling the border as it is about politics. majorities of americans don't want the wall built, and majorities of americans from both parties -- republicans and democrats -- want to give the daca kids a path to legal

residence in the united states. when you throw in the word citizenship, obviously everything is up for grabs. but if they are looking for a way to remain in the country legally, majorities of americans from both parties, and independents, want them to be able to stay. the president is not in tune with the majority of americans on these issues, so is he's got to talk about this as if it is a big crisis. >> that's journalist ray suarez spending his semester in the pioneer valley, a visiting professor at amherst college. what investigators have learned from the deadly fire at the president's beloved new york high-rise and the safety chicks missing from apartments where those flames erupted. hey grandpa. hey, kid. really good to see you. you too. you tell grandma you were going fishing again? maybe. (vo) the best things in life keep going.

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welcome back. i'm david gura. no anounnouncement yet on what sparked a deadly fire at trump tower in new york yesterday. one person was killed and six others injured as flames engulfed the building's 50th floor. no members of the first family were in the building at the time of the blaze. the president tweeted, quote, fire at trump tower is out. very confined. well built building. firemen and women did a great job. thank you. joining us now from the scene, msnbc correspondent black mccoy. great to have you with us. what are investigators saying about what they know at this point about the cause of that fire in that apartment on the 50th floor? >> well, they still have not announced a cause for the fire despite being out here for

almost 24 hours now investigating. the fire broke out on the 50th floor about 5:30 yesterday afternoon. black smoke could be seen billowing from the building. inside a 67-year-old, todd brassner, died from his injuries. he was the resident in that apartment. fire officials say they were alerted to this fire because of an automated alarm system which means that mr. brassner was unable to call 911 himself for help. a lot of talk is swirling today about the lack of fire sprinklers on those floors. that has to do with new york building code. the code that required sprinklers to be put in big residential buildings like this wasn't passed until the late '90s. this building was completed in 1983. it's not required to have those sprinklers until major renovation takes place which as far as we know hadn't occurred on that 50th floor. >> blake mccoy outside trump tower in new york a few blocks away from me here at 30 rock. thank you. when and if president trump

knew about the alleged hush money payment between stormy daniels and attorney michael cohen is still a topic for discussion and late night ridicule on "saturday night live." >> you just denied knowing anything about the stormy daniels payout. but if that's true doesn't that make her nda nonbinding? >> ooh, that's a toughie. borat, you want to take that one? >> daniels' attorney michael avenatti tweeted a response, unlike the talented alec baldwin on "saturday night live" last night, in a deposition under oath mr. trump will not be able to simply pass the question about the nda to someone else. joining us now, danny savalos. president trump on a trip last week went back, talked to members of the press on the plane, said he knew nothing of the $130,000 payment, referred questions to michael cohen, his attorney. how significant is that? >> the fascinating thing about contract law is you'll see beau sides take the exact same

statement and apply their own principles and arrive at completely different conclusions. in this case, avenatti's position is -- and he's right -- that trump's word, "no," trump's denial of knowledge of the payment fits in with his theory of the case, which is there is no contract because trump was intended to be a party to that contract so that if he does not know about any payments, then he couldn't possibly be a party to a contract that he has no knowledge of performing in. that's what we call in contract law performance is paying the money. if he they ever performed, never knew about it, never paid the money, he can't be a party to the contract. now on the other side, the trump team would say this is consistent with their theory which is that trump is what we call a third party beneficiary. that's something that we all learn in contracts. you don't have to be a party of some contracts if you were intended to wbenefit from this. as long as e. kr6c. validly sig

the contract and daniels validly signed the contract, it can be -- can't be enforced by daniels on her own. >> seems like michael avenatti finally made in-roads to get the president to talk. you don't want him or her to be in a situation where he says something that could jeopardize the case. how much of a victory was that for michael avenatti just having the president weigh in on this matter after what was a rather astounding, many weeks, months of silence about this issue in particular. >> i think when avenatti said this was an undisciplined client, we've all had undisciplined clients. every attorney -- me included -- can tell you about clients that you beg to follow your instructions. just don't talk. don't discuss this with anyone. don't make any phone calls from the prison telephone. and they just go ahead and they use their own better judgment. which ironically that same

judgment is what got them into the pickle that required your representation in the first place. when he said an undisciplined client, i think lawyers everywhere sort of breathed a sigh of recognition and said, ah, yes, an undisciplined client. i know one of those myself as well. >> our msnbc legal animal cysal appreciate your time. with a we hope to learn when the founder of facebook takes the hot seat before congress this week. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

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welcome back. i'm david gura. all eyes will be on mark zuckerberg when he goes before congress on tuesday of this week to explain facebook's failure to protect user data. facebook this week announced several changes. start with political ads. they'll now be more clearly labeled. the hope is that will take care of russian trolls. starting tomorrow you'll see this particular link here on facebook. that is going to let you review the apps and websites that are collecting your data. plus, facebook is no longer going to be able to -- friends are not going to be able to look you up with your phone number or e-mail address. facebook admitted scammers were abusing that particular feature of the social network. and a point of concern for a the love people, privacy advocates in particular, the way facebook has held on to cull and text histories of people who have been using its messenger app, facebook will now delete those logs after one year. this week facebook executive

sheryl sandberg was doing damage control, sitting down with my colleague, savannah guthrie. >> it is a huge breach. is it greed? was it incompetence? when you think big picture, what went wrong? >> what we weren't focused enough on was protecting. because that same data that you enable to use social experiences can also be misused. >> you have an opt-out button, please don't use nigh proceed file to advertising. >> we have different forms of opt-out. we don't have the opt-out at a highest level. that would be a paid product. >> joining us is cara swisher. great to spud with you. you have talked to mark zuckerberg before, seen him on stage what are you going to be watching for? >> he's not as comfortable in the public area as many people can be and it's a tough audience in congress. it will be interesting to see what he says, how much

responsibility he takes, how he talks about the changes they're making, and then what the various politicians attack him with. i think it will probably by i pretty touch for him. >> there's been so much reporting on how he'll comport himself. a lot of people alleging he's an awkward speaker. i on want your insight on how we got to this point. they are not out regularly talking bo people. why is that the case -- >> that's not true. they do talk. i've interviewed them. that's not the case. i think in this particular instance, they waited a loening time, and a lot of the new things are stuff they should have done. it's management issue, they were not managing the platform in the

right way, so i think they've been slow to come to these conclusions. now it looks like they've been forced to do so, and sure a lot of people are awkward. nobody wants to talk to congress, but he's an adult. he's a billionaire who created this astonishing platform, so we can't treat him like he's some flower that we have to be careful with. he's an adult person that runs a major company, and if he can't we have to watch why he can't do that the whistle-blower behind all of that was on "meet the press" this morning. >> so when you originally gave your first interview on this, you knew it was 87 million, but you legally could only say 50 million. >> "new york times" and convex the guardian" chose 50 million

because it was the most conservative estimate. when i met with the british authorities earlier in the year, one of the things i want is actually the number is substantially more than that from my recollection and also data was halvested in many more countries than the united states. when you're working with "new york times" and "the guardian" they will make sure that anything they publish is the most conservative to play it safe. >> do you believe the number 87 million is the high end, or do you think that's still possible the numb abouter is much higher? >> i think it could better higher, absolutely. >> cara, i want your sense of how much the number matters. you mentioned these are policy changes that could have happened many years ago. i think a lot of people will be wondering why facebook has taken so long to acknowledge the skate of the problem, gets their hands

around how big a pros that's. >> you know, very early on when mark said at an event they had no impact on the election -- i don't know if you remember that. that was right after the election, i remember talking to executives saying you cannot say that, you know these are like cockroaches, you're going to find one, you're going to find dozens. i don't know why they don't have a handle on it. but they built it so they should be able to run it. one of the things that's still problematic -- he keeps saying i don't want to sit at my desk and make these decisions. well, he built it, he needs to do that. he needs to tell people, and probably not say numbers until they know for sure, because then they just have to keep revising them. i don't think they're doing it

malevolently. how did this happen? they have to have some knowledge and not throw their hands up and act like they didn't build this thing. they did. >> i suspect he'll be asked about that a lot. i ref that jeffrey rosen piece about the apparatus they had to screen videos. how good are companies doing that? is there -- are think people who have the requisite skills to be able to do that? are companies now reckoning fully to provide that self-regulation that i think they would rather have in place. they've talked 20,000, this is a massive platform. it's fine to have rules and regulations, but if you don't police it, what's the difference kind of thing. there's going to be costs here and it's not going millions.

it's going to be very forthright, then you up -- i did an interview with tim cook. he said we could take advantage of people's information, much more so than they do, and they don't for lots of reasons. if you're going to do that, and going to would be people's information, you have to be responsible with that information. it's pretty basket, it seems to me. >> cara swisher, thank you very much. coming up in our next hour, president trump calling out vladimir putin. what his comments could mean for relations with russia. plus friends forever, the commander in chief claims a trade war will not damage his close ties with china's president. president trump has an answer for that as well. amazing.

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hello, everybody. a defining meantime. that is how one senate republican describes the situation facing president trump as he ponders a response to a suspected chemical weapons attack in syria, a tack he blamed in part on russia. a show of force. national guard troops head to mexico as a caravan of migrants makes its way to the same border.