together. this is phoenix arizona, tens of thousands of schoolteachers marked in phoenix, they marched to the state capital building to protest the fact that arizona spends way below the national average on the schools. nbc shot this time lapsed footage to give a sense of the scale of the two mile long march. in tuson they gathered along a stretch of road, the best way was to catch that was in a car. colorado teachers have done it too. this follows walk outs in west virginia, kentucky. in only nine weeks now this has happened in five different states. you do the math. and if you can, thank a teacher. that does it for us tonight now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell" good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. i know this is going to sound

familiar but once again i have michael avenatti sitting beside me tonight. he made an appearance in judge woods' courtroom in the matter of the evidence gathered in the michael cohen case. he's going to explain what happened to us in the courtroom today and, of course, how the president's performance on fox & friends affected his case on stormy daniels. >> i read the reports of michael avenatti in court today, he's very articulate as he was in your tv show. but i was as stunned as i think he was how the president blew up his own case. it was like a manic moment of self-destruction. >> you're in on my secret, rachel, that my workday does not begin at 8:00 a.m., but today it did, because i happened -- i just happened upon this magical

television that was happening at 8:00 a.m. and was cutting between msnbc and fox news. because michael avenatti was reacting to it live while donald trump was saying it on another network and it was an amazing half hour. >> i know you are neither an early riser or drinker but part of me imagines you in a bathrobe with a glass of red wine watching that happening. it was built for you. it's amazing. >> i'm hoping no other day starts for me that way. i'm hoping that was the last of those. >> thank you. >> thank you, rachel. today one of the president's most trusted add visors told him, we're running out of time. with new york city prosecutors tightening in on michael cohen and robert mueller tightening in on paul manafort as paul manafort approaches a trial in a

few months and with rudy giuliani making no progress with robert mueller on monday in his first discussion with the special prosecutor as one of donald trump's defense lawyers and with the trump white house reaching crazier levels of chaos than anyone imagined under the reince priebus run, this time last year, the president's trusted adviser has had to tell him something today that he has never told him before. >> mr. president, we're running out of time -- >> senior adviser to the president who delivers his advise every morning from his seat on fox & friends, advise the president almost always follows had to tell the president he was running out of time. because he could see that his performance as an unhinged caller to fox & friends at the 25th minute was the performance

of a man out of control. steve ducy and the president's two other advisers on fox & friends looked very worried this morning. they want donald trump to succeed. they want donald trump to continue being president. and look how worried they look for donald trump this morning. that is basically the way they looked for almost every second of the 31 minutes that donald trump was haranguing them and their audience this morning. rupert murdoch, the creator and current boss of fox news wants the trump presidency to continue. so at minute 25 of the ranting of donald trump this morning, rupert murdoch had had more than enough. rupert murdoch who was one of the guests at the first trump white house state dinner this week with the president of france told the fox news control room to shut it down and a director in the fox news control

room told them to shut this down as fast as they could because it had become a harmful appearance to donald trump, the president, and to donald trump the suspect in the robert mueller investigation, and donald trump also known as david dennison in the stormy daniels case. there's no other way the president of the united states calling in to a cable news show would have been told we're running out of time. no commercial is that important that you would cut off the president of the united states. no producer or director of a cable news show would have the authority to cut off the president of the united states. that was a call that had to be made at the top. rupert murdoch knew the president was going to be calling in to fox & friends this morning so rupert murdoch, who's an earlier riser than i am, was surely watching. and rupert murdoch watched the creature that he created. the man who never would have squeaked out a win in the

electoral college without the full support of fox news, the president who had rupert murdoch at his first state dinner. rupert murdoch was watching that president sink deeper and deeper into a public display of madness and get himself deeper and deeper into legal trouble, which our first guest tonight, michael avenatti, was already analyzing on morning joe on this network while the president was still talking on fox news. but donald trump couldn't be stopped by rupert murdoch or steve ducy as quickly as they hoped. he kept talking for a full three minutes after steve ducy warned him, we're running out of time. and the president's friends on fox & friends stared into the camera where they knew donald trump could see them, but they couldn't see them, and they looked straight at the man filled with fear for him and what he might say next. they looked like worried

clinical psychiatrists staring at an out of control patient through a one-way mirror. donald trump sounded today like a man running out of time. he sounded like a man who wants to stop time. and he sounded like a man desperately trying to get his story straight before he has to tell it under oath to special prosecutor robert mueller. or to michael avenatti in a deposition about stormy daniels. and today, those two words, stormy daniels, proved just how frazzled the president of the united states is. just how far michael avenatti has pushed him. because today was the very first time that the president of the united states said the words stormy daniels. and when he did, all the lawyers closing in on donald trump pounced on what he said. >> how much of -- mr. president,

how much of your legal work was handled by michael cohen? >> as a percentage of my overall legal work, a tiny little fraction. but michael would represent me and represent me on some things. he represents me, like with this crazy stormy daniels deal. he represented me. and, you know, from what i see, he did absolutely nothing wrong. there were no campaign funds going in -- >> then why is he pleading the fifth? >> because he has other things. he has businesses. from what i understand they're looking at his businesses. and i hope he's in great shape. >> michael avenatti will give you his reaction to that in a minute. but while michael avenatti was on morning joe and the president was on fox news, enough was delivered so that michael avenatti immediately pointed out that the president was contradicting himself saying on fox news that michael cohen represented him in this crazy

stormy daniels deal, but on air force one he said this. >> mr. president, did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen make it? >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael's my attorney, and you'll have to ask michael. >> michael avenatti wasn't the only lawyer who bounced. in a letter delivered to federal judge wood today just about the hearing of the evidence of michael cohen, federal prosecutors quoted donald trump on fox & friends this morning as supporting the prosecutor's claim that there is very little material in what they seized from michael cohen that is protected by michael cohen's attorney/client privilege with donald trump. the letter says, quote, president trump reportedly said on cable television this morning that cohen performances a tiny, tiny little fraction of his

overall legal work. in the hearing today in the cohen case with the agreement of both sides the judge appointed a special master, a referee, who will help decide what evidence, if any, is protected by attorney/client privilege. the master is barbara jones who was chosen for her judgeship -- she has been in a private practice the last five years. and prior to her career as a judge, she was an assistant u.s. attorney and worked under republicans and democrats. michael avenatti rose to speak for a few minutes in the middle of the hearing today saying quote we just effectively your honor want a seat at the table. by which he meant he wanted to

protect any possible attorney/client privilege issues that might arise for his client, stormy daniels, if she is men mentioned in some of michael cohen's seized communications. when michael avenatti sat down, he received the befst review th judge offered for any of the lawyers appearing before her today. judge wood said i have difficulty understanding any flaw in mr. avenatti's position. that is a position shared by many of the people who have watched you on the program and shared by me. we'll pick up the discussion of what happened in the courtroom today, where the case goes from here and where the cohen investigation goes from here. we'll be right back. where's m? she's in this car. what the heck? whoa. yo, whose car is this? this is the all-new chevy traverse.

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michael would represent me and represent me on some things. he represents me like with this crazy stormy daniels deal he represented me. >> joining the discussion now michael avenatti the attorney for stormy daniels and jill wine-banks an msnbc contributor. michael in the courtroom today were you surprised to see the prosecutors pounce on that fox & friends appearance as quickly as you did with their inserting in their pleading today that the the president said michael cohen does a tiny amount of legal work

and therefore there's very little attorney/client privilege here. >> i wasn't surprised, lawrence. this is a two-way gift for both them and us. it came out of nowhere. if we scripted this, lawrence, we could not have scripted it better. if the president is watching, please call in to fox & friends tomorrow and every day next week, please. whatever you do. and please speak about our case and stormy daniels, please mr. president, thank you. >> this was the very first day the words stormy daniels passed the lips of the president of the united states while president. >> correct. they passed his lips many times prior to this, but you're correct. since he's become president, lawrence -- look, i can't emphasize enough you could not script this out any better for us. the president and michael cohen, every trap we lay they step in it. he is -- the president is undisciplined. he shoots off the cuff, he says

whatever comes to mind, and that may work in a political campaign, but it is an unmisgaited disaster as it relates to being a litigant in a case like this. >> you have two answers about the president's involvement. you have an air force one answer that he says i knew nothing about it. you have michael cohen saying in the past, the president knew nothing about it. i took care of it without the president knowing. now you have the president today saying, he represented me, past tense, with this crazy stormy daniels deal he represented me. that sounds like he was aware that michael cohen was representing him in those discussions that created that agreement in the first place. which one do you like better? which one helps your case better? which one do you want to be true? that the president knew nothing about it therefore there is no agreement were or the president

says michael cohen did represent him in this case? >> the beautiful part is this is a buffet, it's not an a la carte menu, so we don't have to pick one, we pick both. not only did he say he represented me, but then he actually doubled down and said he represents, current tense, me. he tightened it up for us, which i truly appreciated by the way because that helps us even further in the case. so we're going to see how this plays out, lawrence. the beautiful part of this, from my perspective is, as you know we have a pending motion to take the deposition of the president. what he did today adds considerable fuel to that fire for that deposition. why do i say that? the reason i say that is because now we have inconsistent statements. we have michael cohen and what he said some time ago, coupled with the statements by david schwartz, the guy that he trotted out for a couple weeks who now can only be found on

milk cartons to explain michael cohen's position -- >> i forgot about him. he's disappeared. he used to drift through cable news shows yelling at you sometimes. >> correct. we've called around to local hospitals he's not present there, i'm glad to hear that, but he has disappeared. separate and apart from that we have the air force one comments on april 5 or 6 and now we have these comments. you cannot reconcile these three sets of comments all of which gives further credence to our motion, we need to take his deposition, put him under oath, find out what he knew about the agreement, what he paid, didn't pay, we need to know this. we're entitled to 7 hours, i think two is sufficient. in fact, if he's like this morning we can do it in two minutes. >> if the president is claiming this is a burden on his time,

does it help your case with the judge when the president spends half an hour on fox & friends talking about whatever goes through his mind, including by the way, your case? >> it certainly doesn't help. i saw that interview. and he was unraveling throughout it. it was an incredible interview. and michael is quite correct that this will help in terms of getting a deposition. because he has said inconsistent things now. and there should be some obligation to answer to that. it's really incredible to wonder what does the president actually believe? does he believe the things he says, and i recently had a conversation with a psychiatrist who was trying to explain to me the difference between someone who just plain out lies and someone who is delusional and actually believes what they are saying. his conclusion was that trump must believe what he's saying because he says things that are so harmful to his self-interest

that he couldn't possibly lie that way if he was being sensible. so he must be delusional. >> he can also be both. jill, i want to get your reaction as a former federal prosecutor to the appointment of the special master today in the evidentiary case involving michael cohen. >> i think it gives everybody what they need. it will eliminate any objections to it being an unfair process. i happen to be lucky enough to know judge jones. i worked with her in the pentagon committee looking at sexual assault in the military and got to know her very well there. she followed me in the organized crime section. so i share some background with her in terms of that prosecution. she is an excellent choice. they could not have done any better. she will do a very excellent job. >> michael, we learned a lot about what's actually -- how the evidence is being physically conveyed. michael avenatti has got a big

collection of blackberries, iphones, ipads, electronic devices -- michael cohen has this collection of electronic devices that are now in the custody of the fbi that they're studying. >> by my count it's 16 iphones, blackberries. 16. that's a big number. i don't know how much old phones you have laying around your home, i don't have anywhere close to 16. including blackberries. so my belief is that michael cohen may have seven, 10, 12, 15 years worth of cell phones that have now been imaged by the fbi. what nameans is, unless he forensically reraised them, and i doubt he did, that that means is every data point of those cell phones is now in the

possession of the fbi. we know, according to what the president said on fox & friends, he described the relationship as spanning 20 years. presumably the fbi has all the conversations between michael cohen and the president spanning 20 years. that should send a chill down the spine of the president and michael cohen. it should also send a chill down the spine of anyone else that had any other dealings with michael cohen that were anything other than above board. because the fbi has it all. >> that's why i use that phrase from steve ducy today, we're running out of time. when i heard it, i felt like that is the story of where the president is now not just in the fox news interview but there's a proceeding going on now guided by a special master where they're digging into every one of michael cohen's phones that he's used the whole time he's

known donald trump. >> i'll say this, when i heard reports that michael cohen recorded his conversations with people, like so many instances in this case, i said that is not possible. i can't tell you how many times i've said that in this case and i've been proven wrong. the fact that he saved all these old cell phones, i think there's little question at this point these recordings exist. if these recordings exist, there's no finer piece of evidence of than a videotape. so if michael cohen took pleasure in recording his conversations with individuals where he threatened them, intimidated them, engaged in anything that can be described as illegal conduct, he's in many worse position than i thought and i always thought he was in a bad spot. >> jill, a question on how long you think it'll take the fbi to

go through the evidence. the prosecutor suggested one of them might take 90 days, the rest of them seemed like something they could do quickly. >> down loading it isn't the problem. it's interpreting them, that will take a bit longer. i think there's so much to be worried about here. i don't think it's the stormy daniels payment that is going to bring down cohen or the president, because i think, as michael is suggesting, that the evidence that has now been obtained will show business wrong doing for many, many years. and much of that will be very serious threat to the career and future of both michael cohen and the president. so i think there's a lot to be worried about well beyond the stormy daniels amount. >> jill wine-banks thank you for joining us and michael avenatti thank you for joining us. and congratulations on your very positive review from judge wood

in the courtroom. >> it's early, lawrence. >> you're doing well in round one. >> thank you. coming up donald trump showed this morning why he can never, ever, ever go under oath. or at least why his advisers are wisely telling him he must never go under oath. hining so why binge in here, when you can do it out there. with this clever little app called audible. you can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. everyone's doing it she's binging... they're binging... and... so is he. so put on your headphones, turn on audible and binge better.

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play [music plays]his". when everything's connected, it's simple. easy. awesome. here's why donald trump's lawyers do not want him to testify under oath ever about anything. >> good morning, i picked a very, very special day because it's melania's birthday. i said let's do it on melania's

birthday. happy birthday to melania. >> do you want to tell us what you got her? >> i better not get into that because maybe i'll get into trouble. maybe i didn't get her enough. i got her a beautiful card. i'm busy to be running out looking for presents. i got her a beautiful card and beautiful flowers. >> maybe i didn't get her so much. he can't sound like he's telling the truth answering what did he get his wife for her birth day. but he sounds like the cheapest rich guy. i'm sure melania likes her card and her collection of cards over the years. but what if the president has to fire everyone to end the special prosecutor's investigation then he might never have to testify under oath in the special prosecutor's investigation. and today he hinted at that possibility more than once.

>> you look at the corruption at the top of the fbi, it's a disgrace. and our justice department, which i try and stay away from but at some point i won't. our justice department should be looking at that kind of stuff not the nonsense of collusion with russia. >> could you hear him? was that loud enough for you? he just said at some point he will interfere with the justice department's investigation of him. but the united states senate took a step toward making that more difficult when they passed a bill to protect the special prosecutor by a bipartisan vote of 14-7. lindsey graham, who voted for the bill said this. >> i am glad we did this today for the special counsel. i stand with my colleagues on the other side, on this side, that president trump somehow tried to fire mr. rosenstein or get rid of mueller it would blow up in his face, it would create a crisis for this country, we don't need that, let's move forward in a professional way.

>> joining our discussion, a former assistant director for national intelligence, frank faguli and eugene robertson, an msnbc political analyst. >> gene what did you get your wife for her birthday? i know that's a tough question. >> maybe i didn't get her so much. >> i didn't mean to grill you here. >> unbelievable. look. in terms of ever, ever talking to mueller under oath or -- you sit down in front of mueller, you're subject to perjury. either he never does it or he takes the fifth. there is no way that -- i mean, lawyers would have to throw themselves bodily between the president and that hearing room. they simply cannot permit this. from their point of view. it would be great, in terms of justice, i think. but i just cannot imagine

they're going to let that happen. >> let's listen to one more piece of the president saying he's not tampering with the justice department, but he just might change his mind. >> i'm very disappointed in my justice department. but because of the fact that it's going on, and i think you'll understand this, i have decided that i won't be involved. i may change my mind at some point because what's going on is a disgrace. >> frank, i may change my mind at some point, he says what's going on in the department you used to work in is a disgrace. >> look, a couple of things. one is when we hear the president said what's happening at the department of justice is a disgrace, what's happened is horrible, what we are hearing is the execution of justice is horrible in his eyes. the carrying out of justice is disgraceful because he defines justice differently. so the bill that's been proposed

or coming out of the ju dish yash committee is more than jufs protecting mueller. it's more about protecting our system of justice and sending a message to the president that this is something that cannot be tolerated and you don't have the option of doing this. this is not your grounds keeping crew at one of your golf properties that you can fire because you weren't happy with their performance. >> twice in the james comey memos that were released last week, two different memos that comey made of his conversations with the president, he reports that the president, quote, said he didn't stay overnight in russia. and in another he says the president said he hadn't stayed overnight in russia in the miss universe trips. that's all in how the covorting with prostitutes couldn't be true. then he heard thomas roberts

coming out publically, who was there the whole time president trump was there, reporting on how many nights president trump spent in moscow and other sources and logs of aircraft on how long he was there. now today on "fox & friends," the president has adopted now the story that he did, of course, spend the night in moscow and he's now trying to blame james comey for getting it wrong when all james comey was doing was writing down what the president said. let's listen to how the president said it today. >> i went to russia for a day or so, a day or two because i own the miss universe pageant. so i went to watch it. everybody knows, the logs are there, the planes are there. he said i didn't stay there a night. of course, i stayed there. i stayed a short period of time but, of course, i stayed. >> when you're under oath and

they ask you how long you were in moscow, an unacceptable answer is a day or two. those are different answers. it's a day or two days or something else. >> it's also totally unacceptable to say i didn't spend the night there and then to say, of course, i spent the night there. and it's somebody else's fault you have that impression. whose credibility, frankly, do you trust in this exchange, right? do you believe james comey or do you believe donald trump, that he told him something different? truth to donald trump is what he wants it to be. that's his idea of truth. it's whatever story suits him right now. that's not the justice system's idea of truth and that's not bob mueller's idea of truth. >> frank we can see in the way the president is working the story, he is adjusting his testimony to what becomes public. a week ago thomas roberts hadn't

said that, thomas roberts was there as a co-host of the beauty pageant, he interviewed trump on camera one day, saw him there the next day, saw him at the party after the show. and thomas hadn't talked about that until this week and we had the new reports this week of what the logs of aircraft shows about trump's travel and that information wasn't out a couple weeks ago, but now that it is, donald trump has the day or two version of staying in moscow. >> this is the sliding value of truth in the president's mind. i got to tell you, lawrence, one of the things -- the first thing that hit me this morning with the rantings on fox was not the content of what he was saying, because he shades the truth depending on the day but he was doing it at all. from my experience with the fbi, what the president is doing at

that time of the morning is receiving intelligence briefings, securing our nation. instead our president was ranting on cable news. >> and making his defense more insecure. frank, thank you very much for joining us. gene we're going to come back with you. coming up, i'm going to say something, i'm going to say something about fox news that i have never said before and might never say again, and i'm going to say that next. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,

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i'm going to do something tonight i have never done before, might never do again. i'm going to recommend, strongly recommend, that you watch, in its entirety, all 31 -- watching anything on fox news but donald trump spent 31 minutes this morning building his wall. you can watch him build it. and it's not the wall that he talked about in the campaign. it is a wall of madness that he is building around himself. and the tenth minute of watching it is deeply disorienting. it's like nothing you've ever seen. but the 20th minute is more than twice as bad. and the 25th minute feels like an explosion point, which is why fox news tried to shut down the

interview repeatedly beginning at that 25th minute. and so find it on line, youtube, the fox news website, wherever it is. and treat yourself to something historians will watch 50 years from now. because it is one of the best views yet into the workings of what's left of the mind of the president of the united states. here is a sample. just beginning with donald trump's 10,000 discussion of his electoral college victory a year and a half after his electoral college victory. >> remember we won the election and we won it easily. a lot of people say it was close. by the way they like to talk about electoral college. it's an election based on the elector electoral college. it says if you're a runner you're praking for the 100 yard

dash as opposed to to the one mile. the electoral college is different. i would rather have the popular vote because it's easier to win the popular vote. i got 306 and she got, what, 223. there was no way to break 270. i heard that on cbs, nbc, abc, they're all fake news. i heard that for so long -- and cnn. i heard that for so long. there is no way. they're trying to suppress it. everyone goes home and says you know, i really like donald trump but i've watched on the news, and they don't know it's fake news, i've taught them it's fake news, i watched on the news he can't win. so let's go the movies and we'll -- >> you'll find out in the midterms if they go -- >> if you know what they're talking about on the darling and the movie, you're better than i am. i don't think the woman in the

middle there, who i've been told is ansley airhart, i don't think she has an idea what they're talking about. donald trump talked to "fox & friends" this morning about other cable news shows on other networks like this one, and he said this sentence, i don't watch them at all. that sentence was immediately followed, without a breath, with the sentence, i watched last night. you're going to see this in a moment. what you're going to see is utter madness in action at verbal high speed. i don't watch them at all, period. i watched them last night. i don't watch them at all is a pathological lie, which is exposed by donald trump's very next sentence. here is more of the most dangerous mind in the history of the american presidency. >> i don't watch them at all. >> that makes it easy. >> i tell you what, i watched

leaking, lying comey last night and i hated to do it. people are saying you're still looking good, mr. president, i would always watch now frankly i don't have times, for two reasons there's too much. but whether it was good or bad i would watch. i don't want nbc anymore they're as bad as cnn, i made them a fortune with the apprentice. i made them a fortune. you would think these guys would treat me good. i made them a fortune and they treat me horribly and falsely. i don't watch things i could put it out of my mind and i never thought it would be possible. it keeps you on the ball. you keep your sanity. >> sanity? he actually referred to the

elephant in the room. he referred to the biggest elephant in american, donald trump's sanity. the thing most in doubt about donald trump, his sanity. and you have to see this, because you might never see this again unless trump goes on fox news again and "fox & friends" hosts are trying to get the president of the united states to shut up and get off their show. >> our justice department should be looking at that kind of stuff, not the nonsense of collusion with russia. there is no collusion with me. >> all right. >> and russia. and everyone knows it. >> we could talk to you all day and we know you have a million things to do. good luck mr. president. >> good luck with your book. >> thank you. >> and happy birthday to melania. >> we'll see you next thursday, mr. president, call in again sometime. >> very nice that you call in.

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the people have to understand how dishonest the news is. and in all fairness to fox, you guys don't always treat me great. but you treat me fairly. you know, it's not like fox is perfect for me. they're not. they're tough. but at least it's fair.

when you look at some of the others, you look at like cnn, they'll have a council of seven people, and of the seven people, every one of them is against me. i'm saying, where do they even find these people? >> i'm not your doctor, mr. president, but i would recommend you watch less of them. >> i'm not your doctor, mr. president, but i would recommend you watch less of them. that is dr. brian kilmeade, who was playing, in effect, donald trump's psychiatrist in this particular part of the interview this morning. joining us now, daniel dale, washington correspondent for the toronto star, who live tweeted the entire fox news interview this morning. and eugene robinson is back with us. daniel, i was watching your tweets. i was watching the interview live. i was trying to not answer the phone, people calling me, saying watch this interview, which i was already watching. we could go on and on about it. give us some of your highlights. >> well, the tone was striking to me. you know, trump keeps exploding

after he manages to behave himself for any period of time. we see this when he goes on foreign trips and then comes back. and i think we saw it with his, you know, two days of being on his best diplomatic behavior mostly with the president of france. he just cannot contain himself. he's like a kid whose mom tells him f you behave at the dentist, you can run around the house and tear things up. he got himself in legal trouble at least once, maybe twice. he messed himself up on michael cohen. he weighed in on a matter very likely of interest to special counsel robert mueller with the russia hotel thing. he lied a whole bunch as he always lies a whole bunch. and i think what was also notable to me is that it's often the easy interviews, the easy settings where he feels comfortable where he gets himself in trouble. it's not the hardball one, not that he does hardball interviews, subjects himself to that. but it's when he feels like he can just talk, whether it's a campaign rally or he feels like he's amongst friends on this

friendly network. just talking. it's not like he's getting tripped up by someone else. he trips himself up. >> that is a great point. it turns out the softball interview is not the safest place for him, that he actually gets too comfortable. i want to play something he said when doc ronny. that was of course his choice to be the secretary of veterans affairs, which we knew on this program days ago was never going to happen. that nomination was withdrawn finally this morning just before the president went on tv actually. let's listen to what the president said about that. >> doc ronny -- you know, we call him doc ronny. we call him admiral ronny. he's an admiral, highly respected, a real leader. he was the doctor to president bush, to president obama and the family. he's been my doctor, and he runs a fantastic operation. you know, they have many doctors, and they run a fantastic operation. and honestly i said it to him. he didn't come to me.

i said, you know, doc, you run a great operation. how do you think you'd do at the va? these are all false accusations that were made. these are false -- they're trying to destroy a man. by the way, i did say, welcome to washington. welcome to the swamp. >> gene, there's no evidence at all that any of these are false accusations. and, yes, he was the doctor to a couple of other presidents, neither of whom tried to make him a cabinet member. >> that's exactly right, lawrence. even if you assume that all the accusations are false, which we cannot assume, and i don't think we believe, it was a crazy thing to do. you need a secretary for veterans affairs, the second biggest department in the federal government, and you say, hey, let's put doc ronny in there. he's a good doctor. he's my doctor. i like him. i mean that's a crazy thing to do. you know, something you said earlier that historians will look at this interview in 50

years. as long as there are historians of the presidency and historians of the media and historians of madness, this interview will be scrutinized and replayed and examined for its -- it is just the craziest thing that's happened, oh, you know, since last tuesday, right? because that's the trump administration. one other thing trump did, by the way, during the interview was blow what seemed to be a kind of chill wind toward michael cohen in the sense that he really distanced himself from him. oh, michael cohen, he doesn't do much work for me. he has a business. i don't have anything to do with it. i hope he's okay, but, you know, very -- you know, good luck to you, whoever you are basically. >> and, daniel, he offered a theory of the case of why michael cohen might be in trouble, and he said that michael cohen does a lot of different kinds of businesses and the investigation is

probably about his business. >> right. well, that's trump saying the investigation is about something that's not me. that was trump fumbling. and there are, you know, to not dismiss it entirely, there are reports from credible outlets that there may be matters related to michael cohen's business, something to do with taxi medallions that may be under investigation. but the attempt by the president to distance himself from his longtime right-hand man, his political fixer, i think is laughable. >> well, yeah. of course they're investigating his businesses, but the president shouldn't be saying, this is what i think they're going to go after and find something. >> good point. >> lawrence, the president shouldn't be doing this at all. >> there you go. >> that's where we are. >> thanks for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. we're going to be right back.

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did you know that? [ applause ] yeah, kissed him on both cheeks. yeah. then out of habit, michael cohen showed up and handed macron $130,000. >> conan o'brien gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour" with bryian williams starts now. tonight president trump has spoken out in praise of "fox & friends" after his eventful and rambling half hour long television interview this morning, described by maggie haberman has another installment of this president versus the presidency. it included trump's admission michael cohen represents him in the stormy daniels case and trump's threat that someday he won't stay away from the justice department. and tonight there's also this. the leader of north korea became the first to cross into the south since the fighting stopped in the korean war when eisenhower was our president. "the 11th hour" on an eventful thursday night begins now.