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shortly before my colleague, eam 'em. >> david gurra, thank you. i'm aim is n ayman mohyeldin. they're in and out both in singapore for the summit just 24 hours away. more to impress or threaten kim jong-un? he'll know within minutes, a former white house adviser who helped seal the deals for both iran and cuba is here to explain
house diplomacy really works. lots to cover. here we go. donald trump is not going to capitula capitulate, so there's really only two options -- peace or war. >> they have already gotten a concession by the president. >> they are trying to fit a nuclear warhead on an interconnell ballistic missile. when they do it gives them the possibility to hit the united states. >> we have not been included in any of the preparation for this negotiation. so that's where we begin this hour. it's 4:00 a.m. monday morning in singapore. the summit between president trump and sim jeong eun just 24
hours away. both leaders arriving earlier today. kim was the first to arrive, deplaning from a chinese commercial airplane, while president trump touched down hours later at a military base nearby. the unprecedented meeting will take place at the capella hotel. security is extra tight around the area, as you can imagine. before leaving the g7 summit in canada, president trump put the burden of success or failure squarely on north korea. >> it's a one-time shot. i think it's going to work out very well. i think very quickly i'll know whether or not something good is going to happen. if i think it won't, i won't waste my time. i don't want to waste his time. kim met with the singaporen if prime minister. with the help of a trance lator.
>> translator: thed . joining mess here on set, gorgen chang, author of "nuclear showdown." and bobby ghosh. good to have both of you on set. a lot of people are saying we're at the end of a long road that has been taken plague over the past several months, it is either peace and denuclearization, or from this point on, if the talks fail, were destined on a path to war. is that summing up the stakes? >> it could be. there's a number of different paths. the u.s. for a very long time have lived with their nuclear weapons program.
people don't want to live with north korea's, because they do not believe we can deter them. we talk as if the north koreans do nonwant to give up the weapon, we have to go to war, but there are a lot of intermediate paths, there are tools we can use to get the north koreans to give up their weapons. for instance, u.s. and u.n. sanctions have account international revenue to the regime by half. we can do better than that. there's a the lot of things short of of the use the force. >> what's at take? if at the end up it, but tuesday afternoon these leaders are walking away without an agreement? >> i think that we go back to the maximum pressure campaign. prompt just a couple days ago said look, i don't want to talk about maximum pressure. we know from "wall street journal" reporting that the u.s. treasury department did not put sanctions on 36 or so russian and chinese and other entities, because we wanted to cede a good
atmosphere for the talks. bobby, there's a loot of criticism going around, that the summit is not necessarily substantive, we've had very little time to prepare for it. this is according to reuters that kim jong-un is reportedly departing 2:00 p.m. tuesday afternoon. that means he will literally be there to participate for maybe half a day's worth of meetings. is that serious enough for what is at stake that's trying to be accomplished here? >> it doesn't ounce like it, but we have to make allowances that he's doing some grandstanding himself. just like president trump has said if i don't feel like i'm getting a deal -- this could be kim jong-un's way -- if he feels like he's going to get it around -- >> he came in on a commercial flight. >> he can catch the next one
out. i don't think that will be a problem. putting the word out that i'm going to leave at 2:00 could be a bit of grandstanding on his part as well. >> are you surprised he flew on a chinese commercial flight? >> no, north korea doesn't have planes that can rely believe get him to singapore. we knew there was going to be something. >> and the u.s. -- accommodations in singapore? that's a common tactic as well? >> well, we shouldn't. >> so there's a lot going on there, but you know the important point is president trump wants a summit. he ate not gotten a commitment to do what we think is necessary. this doesn't mean we can't recover, but after an
unsuccessful summit, we'll be working uphill. >> politically each of them is dealing with an audience back home. for president trump, having two successively failed summits would not look good. he's coming off a could at that time trophy of on summit in canada. can he afford two setbacks like that? it would be hard for his very capable spin doctors to spin something into gold. >> i want to play you -- this is talking at the government summit. >> i have a clear objective but i have to say, it's going to be something that will always be spur of the moment.
he as been trying to -- is that a sane or wise strategy going into these talks? do you think the new yorkans will have done their due part? >> they planned all of this starting from the new year's eve message through the olympics to this. so i think they have it on a road. that's not to say if you're using your gut you can't prevail, because we have much more leverage, but the point is we should have had a commitment from thenoicance to do the things that are necessary before we even have the summit. for kim jong-un, and bobby is absolutely right. there's a domestic audience for kim jong-un. he needs a good summit, and basically just shoufg up is good, because that's legitimate mization. we have handed that to them without anything in return. that's a big mistake on the part of the united states.
maybe there's some sort of background discussions, but from all that we can tell, we're giving them a big win. >> kim has shaken hands with the president of south korea, dwight met xi jinping, now shakes hands with the prime minister of singapore and tomorrow the president. >> he also got an invite poirnl to meet with putin in russia. >> this is the hermit kingdom. let me ask you about the dynamic inside the white house. john bolton, mike pompeo, very different approaches, john bolton being somewhat of a controversial man with some of
these comments. take a listen. >> we're looking at the libya model of 2003-2004, and looking at what north korea has committed to previously. >> that statement created a lot of controversy, because it seems to have ainge evidence north korea, and the -- so mike pompeo, is trying to strike a more diplomatic zone. does the division inside the white house necessarily reflect a weakness in the american position in? >> the most positive spin you can put on that is washington trying to signal good cop and bad cop at the same time york the north koreans are so naive they'll buy into that. they have a pretty decent bead on the president there, the way they have played this whole thing makes it clear. there was some angry retorts to
bolton, but you think they recognize they're not going to make the call. it'sn di of one. think know they have to get the deal from donald trump. everything else is noise. >> what does success look like? very quickly. >> a firm pledge to give up nooks, all ballistic missiles, dismanting the infrastructure, get inspections, intrusive inspections, and also an accounting for the japanese abductees. >> he's made that -- >> he need that at home. i'm going to ask you to stick around. trump world order. the is now at odds with world leaders. how his own on again/off again diplomacy could impact hi relationship with some of our closest allies.
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he did a great disservice to the whole g7. that's larry kudlow speaking there, supporting, today there is fallout and anger with some accusing -- with trump accusing justin extrudo. he also mocked the later very dishonest and week. >> it would be with absolute certainty and firmness that we move forward on july 1st, applying equivalent tariffs to the ones that the americans have unjustly applied to us. canadians are polite, we're reasonable, but we also will not be pushed around. >> joining my panel now, cyr
lina maxwell. and former director of progressive media for the hillary clinton campaign. and noel nick, an author of "branding america." i want you to listen to peter navarro. and then tries to stab him in the back. that's what bad faith justin trudeau did the stunt press conference. that's what weak dishonest justin trudeau did. to my friends in canada. that's one of the worst political miscalculations of a canadian leader.
it seems like we just went over it quickly. but the fact that it's gone to this level so quickly, is there any point right now? any way those two sides can have a functioning relationship? >> i do think there's space for a functioning relationship just because of the history of the relationship between canada and the united states, but a lot of this aligns with donald trump's personality. i hate to see it, but we're living in the worst reality show, with it's almost "the apprentice diplomacy edition." the president doesn't pay attention to details, but that doesn't mean it's the right policy decision, and it's going to hurt regular americans when they go out and purchase goods. in addition to that, i think
it's having concerns, something that sounds like it was written by the kremlin, to stand? front of the white house before leaving -- should come back into the g7 after the reason they were kicked out, which was unlawful, and at of the other nations who are allies,od adver saturdays say, no, they haven't done anything to rectify thai their 'nextation to be allowed bag the united states has a lot at stake. i this i donald trump is trying to show strength, and he has advisers coming out to articulate a position, sort of strong arming our allies. that isn't necessarily the best position. >> what's the strategy here. what is temp's strategy in declaring this kind of trade war now with canada, and in
particular with the name-calling from his administration. what is the strategy? >> this is his pattern, this is how he negotiates. look back when he ran for espect. this is part of his quote/unquote strategy, but how investors from the market opens up, how are investors going to react. i don't think it's going to be good, whatever you think of justing trudeau, whether he stabbed you in the back, the problem is you have justin trudeau saying retaliatory measures are being taken place. i think that will scare some investors, and we'll find out what the market is going to do. in the market reacts negatively,
that's going to be bad, because consumer spending and consumer confidence is up. you have to look at later in the week, i think on thursday, you have the u.s. fed reserve is looking at doing their second rate hike. so, you knowe are dancing around on on the economy. if we have the trade wars that are about to skyrocket, that is going to not be good for consumer confident, especially when we may have another deal with trade wars going on with other countries. >> let me ask you this, bobby. the narrative of trump saying the navy it -- that's his base, his bread and butter
and canadian dairy program resembles nothing so much as u.s. sugar program. the president is picking a fight here with canada that's insignificant? or is there really a trade gap. >> i think he has a perception of that. the president has demonstrated over and over again that his's economically illiterate. he doesn't ujds basic economics. you can go back to the speeches he made, and all the data, the snatches that he puts out, but he's -- the white house this administration does not seem to have the ability to learn from its own past mistakes, but he's
clinging on to a rock-solid belief. >> america has taken for a ride, he believes, and therefore he feels, and his base obviously agree with his him that he has to hit back hard emplgts no matter who it is? >> no matter who it is. and the argument is if your friends take advantage of you, it's even more eye greejous. that seems to be the animating motivation behind this. >> let me ask you about this. how does this image of -- you see that angela merkel, theresa may, emanuel macron talking to president trump, how does that image play into what we're -- what sort of message does that send? >> there's two messages.
last year we had a trade deficit with canada. that was minuscule. we had a 582 two-way trade. what trump should have done is got after the eu where we had a trade deficit that was a as a result of predatory tactics, but i think we're seeing it's personal. there was no need to have a trade fight with canada where he should have taken on the eu where he did have the facts on his side. >> this is an interesting tweet from senator john mccain, cried sizing trump's trade decision. americans stand with you, even if our president does not. >> is this an news.
, that had has alienated some of our allies, although he's in the minority. you're not hearing a lot of voices coming out. >> for instance, we have mid terms rolling around right now. i think that right now we are seeing, you know, they talked about the blue wave, which right now, if you look at it president trump has been able to rally. i think the red wall is standing strong and there's a blue wave. so i think a lot of this, lie pat toomey has gone again. he came out and is upset. you know, all of at the politicians who have criticized
the president are retiring. so i think the people doing their constitutional duty of checks and balances. >> something tells me they don't want to pick a fight with the president if he's calling out prime minister trudeau. president trump says he's been preparing for this moment his entire life. are his expect aations -- with iran and cuba next, stay with us.
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obama white house. ben t. thank you for being here. a lot to talk about in this fascinating book. as you heard president trump talking about the summit. he obviously sells himself as a deal master. what is the reading of his policy, strategy going into tomorrow? how do you rate it? >> incomplete, because i don't think it's gone on. you mentioned iran and cuba. it takes a lot of time to plow the ground with a country you have no relations with, like cuba or north korea. i worry they're rushing to get the summit on the books. they haven't been clear about what they're trying to achieve. it's not just your instincts, it's also what you know about
treasury sanctions policy, what do you know about diplomatic context in asia, what do you know about the nuclear program? i don't see trump doing that preparation at all. >> what kind of advice would you be giving? >> first of all, i would think you would spend many months in preparatory meetings. you don't put the president in a spot like that unless you've many meetings. secondly, a lot of meetings with a big team. he knew what we need to do application with inspections. we had sanctions experts at the table. they're not bringing that to singapore. talk to folks, fox leek the lead
of iran and cuba. do you think there's a double standard of somewhat of a hypocrisy, that he was so -- when he bashed the obama administration for just the gesture of in the beginning talking to iranians or cuba? >> he said he would sit down and north korea, he said in diplomacy. is the entire republican party stayed on top of him for eight years for taking that position. they have moved 180 on a dime, at the same time we also see donald trump literally picking fights with our closest allies in the world on the way to the summit, which by the way, puts us in an isolated position. he's reaches outs while attacking justin trudeau. it's completely maddening that the republicans are providing
cover for this. >> let me pick up your point about the fact that the president is leaving the summit by both estimates as a failure in diplomacy. what are the implications of that when you're about to try - it's obviously a bilateral issue, if you need the support of alous, if going to try to force any deal. >> first of all, you want a united front, when you're going into a high stakes meeting like this. we're going in weaker if the world sees -- usually our best friends, and don't forget that. the second thing is china is going to try to pick apart these divisions. they're thinking we're going to go for the europeans and canadians and say, trade with us, we can replace the americas. in the context of the north koreans summit, that puts china in the driver's seat.
what you're to see is china try to pick apart south korea and japan. >> how do you explain what happened? canada with the president saying russia should be allowed to be part of the g7 or back to being part of the g8. how do you explain that? >> -- >> first of all, the g8, we kicked russia out when they annexed crimea. we worked two years with the europeans to put sanctions on russia. for some reason donald trump cannot find an opportunity to criticize vladimir putin, and in fact he does the oop sit. what tells me is we're potential
looking at the unraveling, where you have the united states standing shoulder to shoulder on behalf of a certainly kind of world order. instead you have donald trump reaching out to vladimir putin. the the amazing thing is it's the u.s. president, not vladimir putin, breaking apart of alliance. we're going to talk more about the historical references that you talked about, right after this break. president trump says that president obama is to blame for allowing russia to take crimea, believe it or not. we'll get ben's thoughts and what he says is behind the rise of trumpism, after the break. it was here.
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. welcome back. we are back with ben rhodes, author of "the world as it is" a memoir of the obama white house. great to have you back with us, ben. let me play a sound bite. >> crimea was let go during the obama administration, and, you know, obama can say all he wants, but he allowed russia to take crimea. i may have had a much different attitude, so you would really have to ask that question of president obama, you know, why did he do that. >> we don't have prime minister prime minister, but we have the next best thing. in the words of president trump, did the obama administration allow russia to take crimea?
>> no. i make two points. was donald trump prepared to go to war to prevent that? that was the only thing that you possibly could have done to physically prevent russia from doing that. we kicked them out of the g8, put sanctions on them. unless you're suggesting we should have cowsed world war iii and gone -- secondly he blames barack obama and not vladimir putin for the annex ace. wednesday again, why is it he cannot say a critical word about vladimir putin he blames bob mueller for having a witch ant. >> you wrote about in terms of what russia was trying to do. walk us through what you learn about what russia did in crimea
as a test run for what they did here in the united states? >> what i realized is when there were the protests ukraine that overthrew the government, putin blamed us for those protests. i sam in many phone calls with vladimir putin, with alabama, where he would rant and rave about the fact that we had been responsible for it, behind it. we saw them develop this information war fare capability. they developed thousands of bots, with disinformation. much more braising in their lies. what i saw is they took that same capable and brought it into the united states in the 2016 election. >> let me ask about the election of world leaders. what did you learn about what world leaders were anticipating and where we are today? >> it's eerie to look at the
book today, because it togetherly foreshadows the g7 summit. angela merkel was shell-shocked. she literally had a tear in her eye when she said boim and he accepted angela is all alone, in terms of defending the liberal national order. justin trudeau looked shell-shocked, and he said you're going to have to speak up for democratic values. now you see him doing that. >> alienated on the world -- and xi jinping, he looked pretty comfortable. obama was warning his there seems to be trade wards, and xi said if an immature leader throwing the world in chaos, the world will know who to blame. he says, if trump does this, they're going to blame him, and we're going to try to pick off
your allies. any regrets, who are the biggest policy failures, and obviously the middle east comes to mind with the arab spring unfoldingd. when you look back, what are your regrets? what is are the mistakes? >> obviously you look at the 3450e69, again, a come i look at is egypt. that's where the arab spring looked hopeful. obama took a bold moving in breakingro mubarak, but i thought we never really followed through. we kind of went babb to form, the military ultimately overturned. we didn't even call it a coup. if you could have been a success story in egypt, you might have had more the a beachhead for democracy. right now you have a
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the push to get something done on immigration reform is heating up as republicans are looking for ways to satisfy factions within the republican party. framework for a compromise is being worked out in a series of closed-door meetings with the house leadership and members from the party's conservative and more moderate caucuses. conservatives wants to crag down on -- mott razz, they want to help the dreamers. the renewed ever comes as republicans trb to cub up with a fix amid increased outrage other the policy of separating families. last week democratic senator jeff merkley attempted to go into a brownsville, texas, facility where the children were being held. watch this.
>> i'm a u.s. senator. >> okay and u.s. policy is involved right now with children. are you familiar with this policy? >> no, not exactly. deal with. hear a what i'm saying? i'll advise my sergeant that you're other. >> i've been asked to leave the property and i'll comply with that. >> that sparked outrage who in a letter to president trump called the actions inhumane and said, quote, this policy has traumatized children who are fleeing extreme violence. our government has a humanitarian duty to the chirp and families seeking asylum in the united states to end this policy immediately. joining me now julian aguilar, immigration and border security reporter for "the texas tribune" in el paso, texas. julian, let me begin with you, if i may, and thanks so much for your time this afternoon i know you've been on the front lines covering this story. what has stood out for you in your reporting? what have you revealed that you think this country needs to know
right now? >> well, i think what's obviously startling a lot of the american public is the fact that ese families are being separated and the president has blamed the opposition, and he's been sort of checked and called out for saying no, this is not a policy that the democrats are responsible for, but i think just the sheer numbers and the fact that, you know, the aclu filed a class action lawsuit to have a federal district judge issue an injunction to end this practice of separating families and the aclu said it's really unknown how many families have been separated. i think the numbers are inching towards 2000, but another thing to consider also is there have been several stories that is this was policy certainly not in these numbers since may, but this was policy that started six or seven months ago, and in el paso i talked to an attorney on thursday who represents a brazilian woman who was separated from her severely disabled grandson and this happened in august,ing so i think with respect to the
policy, it's been ongoing obviously and is getting a lot of attention now, and because you mentioned the solution for the dreamers, i mean, i don't think anybody is holding their breath. we saw earlier this year that the senate failed to act on four bills that were introduced. the state of texas has actually filed another lawsuit, a fresh lawsuit, against the trump administration to end daca and rescind it saying it's unconstitutional and the u.s. department of justice says it agrees with the state of texas and the program should be an lishd so i think the clock is ticking and whether or not anybody is going to through down a $100 bet that something will get done before the elections, that's another question in and of itself. >> very quickly, julian. take us inside the facility in terms of what we've been hearing about them. what has your reporting gleaned in terms of insight as to what the conditions are inside the facility? >> i think the senator's visit and sort of being turned away presents a lot of questions. i don't think it's any surprise
that people aren't being let in to see these facilities. i mean, there were a couple weeks ago when some photographs were tweeted out and, you know, the children sleeping on the floors, and that was actually under the obama administration, but it wasn't the family separation. it was unaccompanied minors so it's difficult to be able to confirm what people are saying with respect to what's going on without getting access, and the senator was denied access. i have to say the congressman was actually granted access into a facility here in el paso back in december. granted they didn't hold just children or separated families. it was a processing center, so it's -- but it doesn't surprise mow that six months later the policy seems to be you're not going to be allowed in, but i think the senator has since said in a subsequent interview that he was told, you know, he would be allowed access and, again, as a journalist i've never -- i've walk up to some of these facilities in the rio grand valley here in el paso an i've been turned away as a reporter trying to get in as well.
>> journalists and politicians. we certainly hope that they are able to see what the conditions are for themselves if there is that opportunity. let me ask you really quickly. republicans are meeting in private and trying to discuss this among themselves between the moderate and conservative wing. is there a way to reach some kind of compromise here without having democrats involved in the early stages of the pross and not just kind of come in and the end and say here's our deal, take it or leave it? >> as much as this gets publicized and the more the parent are separated from their children, the more it will weigh he have on republicans to get this thing done because not only is this a humanitarian issue, but i worry about the developmental problems and issues that these children are going to have while they are not physically abused, mentally, emotionally. this is not good long term for a child to be put through . >> for democrats, is this a lose-lose situation if there's a forced vote on this? what does that mean for democrats? >> it depends what the bill is on the floor, and i think that democrats definitely want to do something to protect dreamers, to ensure that they are not
living in fear of deportation and, you know, every single day that they wake up without a solution, but i would also say this. democrats know that the president hasn't negotiated in good faith on this issue, right there were multiple deals that were presented to the president, and he rejected them, and so we're in this position in part because of decisions that he has made, and i think the deliberate cruelty of this administration to separate babies literally from their parent's arms is going to outrage americans on all -- of all political stripes because i think that the image of a 3-year-old, a 4-year-old in a cage being separated from their parents and then what are we doing with these kids? we're putting them in foster care, but we haven't laid out a plan for how we're going to get these kids reunited with their parents even if they are deported. how will we find the parents once they are deported back to the country that they came from and how will we reunite the families once they are outside of the united states. >> let me ask you very quickly, julian. but from the ground are you seeing the political breakdown
that is happening in washington over immigration translate to actual breakdown of policy on the ground as well? are you seeing, you know, a lack of willingness to do anything on the ground? >> well, it depends on -- i mean, who you talk to. obviously the activists and the people who are for immigration reform and to want to end this policy they are being very, very active, but i think it ties into what the other guest just mentioned, that you know, it depends on how much political pressure is put into an overall bill. with eve seen three democrats that refused to sign on to the discharge position and two have since jumped on, but they still wouldn't hold that because they are concerned about border wall funding. >> certainly going to be a factor i think as the mid terms heat up a little bit. great to have all of you with us this afternoon. both president trump and kim jong-un have arrived in singapore ahead of this week's historic summit. a breakdown of what both sides could bring to the negotiating table. that's next. [phone ringing]
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i'm ayman mohyeldin at msnbc world headquarters. a lot to break down this hour. showdown in singapore. president trump and kim jong-un arrive for the historic summit, what trump calls a one-time shot. the sun about to come up and the summit almost 24 hours away. art of the deal. can the president who prides himself on his deal-making skills really talk kim into abandoning his nuclear program? new details on what might be on the table. and the growing