while supplies last. they probably will. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with much more mtp daily. "the beat," with ari melber starts now. >> i think there's a grammy in the works there. >> certainly for the crack team that put that montage together. >> very impressive. thanks. i'm in for ari melber this evening. we begin with donald trump's fixer, michael cohen, speaking out in his first major interview since the fbi raid and interview on his home and office back in april. as the feds get access to over a million documents seized in that raid, cohen today appearing to break with donald trump. >> remember, he famously said he would take a bullet for president trump. that's what appears to be changing right now. he's very much now his own man. >> cohen didn't appear on camera and wouldn't say directly if he'd flip on president trump but

he did say, my wife, my daughter and my son have my first loyalty, and always will. i put family and country first. country first, seemingly a warning to president trump, on issue after issue, cohen drew a line between his views and the president. he didn't agree with demonizing orvillefing the fbi. he doesn't like the term "witch hunt" and even criticizing the famous trump tower meeting, calling it a mistake and simply poor judgment. he traded barbs with stormy daniels' lawyer. when cohen was asked if trump told him to make that payment to stormy daniels, cohen would only say this. i want to answer. one day i will answer, but for now i can't comment further on advice of my counsel. with me now, former federal prosecutor, john flannery, sasha

and national security reporter, ken delaney. great to have all of you with us. john, let me begin with you. help us decipher this interview with michael cohen. decipher the substance and manner in which it was done. >> my view is it's less than meets the eye. people seem to be so excited he would say anything at all they're reading all sorts of things into it. what i got out of it, he still thinks he's innocent. this is a man talking about his family. we know what a worthless person he's been. he pays off women during the campaign. he makes a loan based on false pretenses, funnels the money through his firm. does pay for play when trump wins with at&t and others. he has a meeting with a ukrainian to have a plan to save russia from the sanctions and

hands it to flynn, who is cooperating with the government. now, we're supposed to believe he cares at all about family. when he says country, which he never showed interest before, it strikes me what he's doing is sending a signal to trump. he doesn't have to go on tv to say he will cooperate. the lawyer he's talking about is the chief of the division that can pick up the phone. i don't think he's talking about his own guilt or pointing to anyone else. everybody is thinking this but i don't think it's there. >> what do you say is behind it? a publicity stunt he is trying to defend his reputation, as he said in that interview or trying to send a signal to the white house, hey, i am somewhat available to cooperate with the government, if i so choose. >> do you believe he's the mob-style guy we heard about for ages or shouting and everything else, or is this puppy dog fellow that now loves his country and all this, will do

this. i thought it was a grooming thing. i thought this guy was talking only to one person and that guy occupies the west wing and apparently has nothing else to do but watch the people that testify against him. >> what do you make when i piece together the timeline of events, feds getting access to a lot of new documents. perhaps, in addition to all the developments behind the scene, with the mueller probe. >> i spoke to a friend of michael cohen in the last hour, he said cohen has been under incredible pressure for some time now. it's starting to get to his family. this whole ordeal is starting to cost him a lot of money and starting to worry if he's at risk of going to prison. there are two schools of thought why he did this. one, he is appealing for a pardon for donald trump. pardon me now or i will flip and tell dark secrets about you.

there's an argument about this, he hired an attorney with close ties to the district who can negotiate a deal. he clearly seems abandoned by donald trump and seems ready to make a deal. he made comments in this interview not consistent with the way trump sees the world or critical of trump. bottom line, feds have 1.3 million documents in their possession they got from michael cohen and some clearly pertain to donald trump. >> tasha, let me get from you the timing and substance. are we reading too much and michael cohen has given this image and family and country come first and not this loyalty to the president what he was always known for when his name was starting to be bounced around in the mueller investigation? >> i think one of the most interesting things about the fact that george stephanopoulos got this first sit-down

interview with cohen is that george stephanopoulos was the one who first reported last month cohen was thinking about flipping, he was likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors. we saw that and then a couple weeks we see this sit-down interview. curious, george stephanopoulos would be the one to get this. one of the things overlook, the biggest revelation in this article, as soon as cohen's new lawyer comes on full time, abc reported his joint defense agreement with the president is going to end. that is exactly what happened to michael flynn before he decided to cooperate with investigators. that could be a big sign cohen is thinking of perhaps cooperating here if the agency reporting is correct, in terms of the fact that it will be a very adversarial relationship between cohen and the president if they do end that joint defense agreement. i think everything ken said is fair. a lot of pressure being put on

cohen right now. he likely was sending some kind of signal to the president, as a last ditch effort to tell him, look, i'm not on your side 100 pers. i don't think this is a witch hunt, the image he's trying to portray to the public and fbi. he clearly doesn't align with the president on everything and clearly feels he's left out in the cold by the property and his allies. >> someone who disagrees, michael cohen is not speaking to the president, take a listen to michael talk about michael cohen in this interview and what he says is an appeal to listen to him. >> this is michael cohen trying to send a message to the president that he wants the president to pay his legal bills or he will flip. he's paying games with the american people. if he has information damaging to this president, i know for a fact he does, he should come

forward and state it and disclose it now. >> john, do you think cohen, in that instance, according to michael in this interview, was speaking to the president or trying to signal to the prosecutors he is willing to play ball here? >> i don't think this would work with the southern district i served and i don't think his lawyer needs to do that. >> why not? let me ask you real quick. >> we don't want people posturing for is and pressing us saying i'm a good person and you should allow me to cooperate, when there is no evidence he has anything to say. wanting to cooperate means falling on your own sword and saying you did something. comey pointed out something very interesting about this president, the mob feeling. no, they don't break legs but run this loyalty thing that way, i wonder if he's saying country, i will be faithful to you, the country, something i never cared about my whole life, and it was a symbol to trump. instead of saying, help me, i

will cooperate, i will do what every other mobster does, i will go through this whole thing and at the end, i hope you will take care of my family and if you can pardon me, do so. that's my suspicion. i can't believe this guy's character has changed and everybody is so jubilant it appears to the case, makes no sense to me. >> you can imagine a lot of people want to know if their president watched this, watched the reaction from the white house. >> hold on one second. i wanted to play the reaction from the white house. >> did the president watch the interview this morning and how does he feel about that his former attorney would put his wife and family and country first but not the president. >> i won't weigh into this issue and refer to outside counsel. >> a non-answer answer. what do you think of that response? >> he never said, not the president.

he never said that. that's what everybody concluded that he meant. he did not say not the president. i think they use twitter to broadcast when the statement will be made. i don't think he wants to get anything out of it and maybe hopes we will feel more tender toward him. a message to one person, to trump, it could be any of the other views expressed. you have to assume this guy's bad character going forward and not anything good about it. >> let me go over one thing you reported on extensively. why would michael cohen even address something like the trump tower meeting? he spoke about it in this interview saying it was a mistake or lack of poor judgment or poor judgment, i should say. why would he go into those waters? >> i think to set himself apart from the values what was portrayed at that meeting.

the staple way steve bannon did. he called it borderline treasonous. it is part of a pr push. he has a lawyer to do that but we shouldn't underestimate him to be in the middle of the spectacle to get his message out, that he's a reasonable person, the meetings where the russians offer dirt on hillary clinton. he's not on board on that. whether this was a message or request for the president to pardon him. he wanted to send certain messages to the president. >> when you look at articles of him threatening a journalist, his image over the last several weeks has been tarnished in addition to what we've heard the last several months. natasha, he said i will not be a

punching bag as part of anyone's defense strategy. i'm not a villain of this story and will not allow others to depict me that way. what do you make of his desire to try to shape the discourse around his image and perhaps send a message to those who want to use him as the culprit of any wrongdoings? >> it seems like publicly he's doing everything he can to distance himself from the president, whether a message to the president, hey, i'm willing to turn on you or flip on you if you don't pardon me or if he's doing a pr image trying to change his image like he tried to tell george stephanopoulos. remember, when he was the finance chair of the rnc, he cited the president's immigration policies and didn't agree with them. now, he's refusing to say he was

the one who paid stormy daniels, the porn star, on behalf of trump of his own volition. in the past, he said he did it and now on advice of counsel, i don't want to talk about it. the trump tower criticism was also a shift. this has been a steady move by him to distance himself from trump lately. >> i know there trying to keep michael avilanni from talking in public. avenatti. he tries to pull it out of his bag of tricks while at the same time pulling it on others. can they silence avenatti? >> they can get a gag order on the case but he is not talking

about the case, merely saying things about cohen and things he doesn't like in a very energetic way. i don't think they can keep him from doing that. >> seems like he's gotten under the skin of them at times. great to have all three of your perspectives. coming up, trump's new statement whether he will confront vp. the supreme court fight. why the white house seems so reluctant to talk about roe versus wade and the trump administration and so many kids separated from their parents and michael cohen may already be parting ways with president trump. i'm in here for ari melber. you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. . that's going to change.

from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. back pain can't win. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve back & muscle. all day strong. all day long. you're smart,eat you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar.

crisp leaves of lettuce.

freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be.

i interviewed and met with four potential justices of our great supreme court. i'll be meeting with two or three more. >> that was donald trump saying he talked with potential supreme court nominees today. as this fight gets under way fast, trump saying he will announce the picks a week from today. already key republican senators, susan collins, a moderate, says she supports roe versus wade, drawing a line in the sand on that single issue. >> a candidate for this important position who would

overturn roe v. wade would not be acceptable to me because that would indicate an activist agenda i don't want to see a judge have. >> democrats trying to enlist collins as a potential defector who can help them block trump's pick. trump saying this about an abortion litmus test. >> are you going to ask your nominees beforehand how they might vote on roe versus wade? >> that's a big one. probably not. they're all saying, don't do that, you shouldn't do that. i'm putting servant people on. >> that's -- putting conservative people on. that's what he's saying now. on the campaign he was clear what he wanted. >> do you want to see the court overturn roe v. wade? >> if we put another two or three justices on, that will happen but will happen automatically, in my opinion, because i am putting pro-life justices on the court.

>> joining me now, former congresswoman donna edwards and mcintosh. congresswoman, if i may begin with you, do you have any doubt of the issues they will stand on roe versus wade in that interview knowing some of his nominees are being vetted by organizations like the federal society? >> we know most of his nominees are being vetted by the federalist society. they already know the answer to that question. that's the reason president trump doesn't have to answer the question. let's be really clear here. i want to make sure susan collins needs to know that line in the sand has to be clear, which is why i believe there has to be an inside and outside strategy so we can make sure to shore up susan collins and potential other senator murkowski on this question. no doubt about it.

those nominees have already been vetted for where they are in roe v. wade. no doubt about it, they will overturn roe v. wade. we can't accept that. >> what would be the inside-outsider strategy you talk about somebody to shore up somebody like susan collins. the women of maine need to speak up and people of maine speak up to susan collins. she values very deeply what the people of her state care about as well as around the country. i think one of the ways to do that is to do what was done frankly with the affordable care act. we didn't just sit around and wait for senate procedure, we took to the streets and made our voices heard and visited offices. all of that outside strategy needs to take place. on the inside, monkey up the works. democrats need to be a little more aggressive here. i've heard them say things like, we will figure out what the

procedure is. we don't have a lot of tools. i don't buy that at all. there are tools available to democrats. they can jam up the works in the senate and should do this until they have clarity on a consensus nominee that will not overturn more than 40 years of precedent. >> i see you shaking your head in agreement there. i'm assuming you would agree? >> and i would feel better about the likelihood of that happening if she was sitting in the senate right now. i think democrats need to hold very very strong and so do the republicans who have shown movement on this issue. they held up merrick garland. we have the rule you cannot confirm a supreme court justice this close to an election. they made the rule and should own it and we should wait until november. and we have a president under

investigation for possibly colluding with a foreign adversary to take the white house and means he shouldn't get to pack the court for a generation. somebody there by untoward means shouldn't be able to make this generation of important policy. if we overturn roe v. wade, american women will die. that's not hyperbolic. we know what happens when it stops being legal. women will seek them and no longer get them safely. >> let me play devil's advocate, if they go to someone like susan collins to stick up against them, what if they show up and go against joe, in west virginia? >> they don't want that. 7 in ten want roe v. wade right where it is. you don't get those numbers with

just democrats in favor of it. to somehow say, yes, we're done with a right to an abortion, we don't want it anymore will not be borne out. >> congressman, let me play something from senator cantwell with strong wards warning democrats. >> i think my colleagues on both sides of the aisle know that this vote could be one of the key votes of their entire career. they know that no matter what spin comes out of the white house, if they vote for somebody who will change precedent, it could be a career ending move. >> do you agree with that, this could be a career ending move with anyone who goes with a pick that changes precedent? >> i absolutely go with that, especially for democrats. keep in mind, even in red states with blue senators, those states depend on voters like me to go out and vote for them and that will simply not happen.

this is a mobilizing moment. the president already said he wants to appoint somebody who could be on the court for 40 years, not even a generation, a couple generations. this is a career defining vote. i think we need to make it clear from the outside that that is what we believe as well. >> let me play you this sound bite from susan collins. she already came out and said she doesn't want an activist judge to overturn precedent. >> don't you think he will probably overturn roe versus wade, given the chance? >> i actually don't. i had a very long discussion with justice gorsuch in my office. he pointed out to me he is the co-author of a whole book on precedent. >> interestingly enough, that very same justice, justice gorsuch, he was part of the decision that broke with precedent on a vote on unions in place almost 40 years.

how is there a fail-safe mechanism those like susan collins can vet and a judge who will say one thing and do something else. >> absolutely. her optimism is unfounded. he was vetted by the federalist society that is a hard line conservative group that will not approve any nominee who wants to overturn roe v. wade. he is clearly capable of being an activist judge. i have no hope we won't overt re if this president appoints another man. why is the administration

staying silent on separating children from their families. and tom delay joins me. first ahead of trump's meeting with putin, asked about election meddling and responded with more comments about hillary clinton's e-mails, believe it or not? why? that when we're back in 60 seconds. your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one? i did mom. wanna try it? yes. it intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. manolo? look at my soft hair. i should be in the shot now too. try head and shoulders two in one. after a scratch so small rocket you could fix it with a pen. how about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead?

for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ donald trump's velvet glove treatment of vladimir putin has been mystery from the very start and now deepening for some of us. first, trump dodging a direct question whether he will discuss election meddling in his upcoming meeting with putin. >> are you going mention the meddling? >> i would like to see some answers as to why we didn't take the server, why the fbi didn't take the server from the dnc. >> didn't you believe it? >> why didn't the fbi take it? look what they did to other people? why didn't they take it? how can they say, get out of here and threw him out of the

office? no collusion. how about deleting 30,000 e-mails. we don't have to talk about the uranium, they delete 33,000 e-mails. >> interesting, trump ignoring the question about meddling instead offering a word salad of attacks on hillary clinton and the fbi, why they didn't take the server. not sure he should be asking putin that. trump's national security advisor, john bolton saying he takes putin's word they didn't interfere. >> what president putin said, through a translator, of course, he said there was no 2016 meddling by the state but different in my view there was no meddling at all. >> accepting the annexation from

c crimera. and he said, we will see. >> we will have to agree to disagree. >> that's not the position of the president? >> not the position of the united states. we'll see. the president makes the policy. i don't make the policy. > guess we have to wait. we'll see. with me now is former intelligence officer, malcolm, author of "the plot to destroy democracy." great to have you with us. trump dodging the question whether he will talk election meddling with putin. why do you think he would not bring that ul despip despite th that he would bring it up at mid-terms. >> this question has been asked since the very beginning. what is donald trump so concerned about? does he really think agreeing

with the intelligence committee of the united states would delegitimize his presidency, or is there something he is hiding, which he doesn't want u.s. law enforcement and intelligence to investigate, doesn't want hthem to share and doesn't want it in public. what's really interesting, he goes on -- not even a tangent, he steps into a perception bubble of his own creation, which surprisingly sounds very much like vladimir putin's perception bubble of the world. >> it seems like an observer, almost a defensive reflex. if you say that, he says fbi and dnc, almost like a pre-programmed saying that. he said they must be proud. watch this. >> if russia is in fact looking to sew discord or chaos, they've got to be saying, this is the greatest thing we've ever done.

okay? there's no collusion with me, no russia with me, no nothing. honestly, it's a disgrace. >> how does discrediting russian meddling here help president trump? >> it helps him greatly because what he's doing again, he's speaking -- he's only speaking to 40% of his population. he only rules -- he only does policy for 40% of the population. there is that nefarious suspicion that we have here. why, as you've said, why does he reflexively go to this? why does he reflexively go to himself and not to the defense of the united states? he speaks the party line that comes from the kremlin. as i'm sure you're going to talk about john bolton. he started with an enormous

amount of money and then miss universe and sat down with the 12 richest men in russia and they gave him his world view. he has never strayed from that world view and not the world view or policy of any president in the united states until he came on the scene. >> some may not know why crimea is so significant. saying they're not definitively against another territory by force is so problematic. >> it's absolutely mind-boggling. since the end of world war ii, a war we fought, lost almost half a million men and we set about creating these alliances, and treaties allowed us to work on the basis and belief, invading

another country's territory and seizing their land by crossing their borders and redefining those borders was against international law. every president has upheld this. donald trump seems to be saying to russia, again from that perception given to him by the russians, where he said, you know, most of the people in crimea speak russian and too bad for the world order. donald trump is giving him permission. by him at this conference, i hope at this summit he doesn't say, go ahead, keep crimea. that will set off the world. china could invade taiwan within a week and use the exact same argument. >> our allies will be very nervous as well to see the president shift his position on this. >> very nervous. >> definitely. thank you. a man who once said he would take a bullet for donald trump hinting today he might flip.

michael cohen's legal strategy. later, massive rallies over immigration and new demands over democrats, to reunite families. we'll be here live. going pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist.

right here. right now. humira.

why is michael cohen breaking his silence now? what is he signaling with this new interview. abc in an interview saying sharing information and documents will come to an end. the growing divide between the man who last year said he would quote take a bullet for the president" as he said he would look to his new lawyer for his defense strategy, saying once i understand what charges might be filed against me, if any at all, i will refer to my new counsel for guidance. is cohen a threat to trump? abc asked him how he felt about potentially becoming a target if he flipped. >> i said, there's a good chance

president trump and his team are going to come after you and come after you hard. >> they had said he would not flip. the president said he would not flip. >> this is where he stiffened his spine and straightened up in his seat. >> cohen saying, i will not be a punching bag as part of anyone's defense strategy. cohen hints he may be cooperating with prosecutors. why is he speaking out now and what is his defense strategy? >> brian white, a criminal defense attorney who represented former house speaker in his strategy. i was asking our earlier guests, what's michael cohen's legal strategy in agreeing to do this interview and saying what he said. >> i think the conventional wisdom is he's angling for a pardon. that may be true. my take is a little bit different. i think he's auditioning on

another level for people in the southern district of new york special counsel's office and fbi. your michael cohen. what has your lot in life been? your practice floated, office and home and hotel room raided, you're getting crushed by michael avenatti on every cable network including coqvc and ver little you can do. i think he's trying to pound the dents out of his public persona by crafting a revised image. michael cohen 2.0, if you will, praising the fbi and saying this investigation through the fbi is not a witch hunt and saying to the people he will meet on his side in the knock-out round, i'm a good guy and will do the right thing for the right reason at the right time. i am not the fixer and f-bomb

dropper everybody thinks i am. >> i know everybody thinks he will be cooperating with the prosecutors. he says, i respect the prosecutors and the process. i would not do or say anything that might be perceived as interfering with their professional review of the evidence and facts. does that mean he is possibly taking steps to flipping on trump and custodying a deal here? >> yes. and cutting a deal here? >> i agree with my colleague. in sports lexicon, exploring free agency right now, trying to figure out what benefits might be available to him if he were to flip, but also preserving his options because he hasn't -- he isn't now cooperating, he is signaling to the president he's on the verge of doing that, if the president wants to do something to take care of him. they have split on potential

liability and who will cover his legal fees. he hasn't committed. one of the difficult things for him to figure out is, let's say president trump could pardon him. the question is, is that going to protect him from state charges? no, if there are going to be state charges you have the southern district of new york cooperating with the state of new york, president trump can't protect him. there's a reason why the president hasn't fired mueller or manafort, because there are restraints on him and michael cohen has to figure out what will president trump do for me. >> if he is auditioning on trying the examples you have on the free agency and auditioning, is the court of public opinion here significant? i know cohen himself said he is not a villain of this story and

will not allow others to depict him in that way but is he playing to a public audience that his practice has collapsed? >> absolutely. i will quote don draper, who said, if you don't like what people are saying, change the conversation. that's what michael cohen did with george stephanopoulos. he is in a position he is going to seek a deal at some point. i know what people are saying, my goodness, he hasn't even been charged yet. you put a state trooper on somebody for 500 miles, somebody will get a ticket. it will be sooner rather than later. he wants to convince the people in the sdny and special counsel's office he is the kind of guy you want as a free agent on your ball club. it's a genius move on his part to hire guy patrillo, in sports

analogy, somebody to get him the best deal. >> i have a feeling the free agency of lebron james influenced both of you guys tonight. thank you very much. next, the trump administration saying it will stop revealing how many children return custody. i will talk to an immigration lawyer, trying to reunite families. (man 1) my guess would be, about... (man 2) i'd say about two hundred. (man 1) yeah... (burke) gives houseplant a whole new meaning. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. does your bed do that? it's the last chance for final closeout savings on the queen c2 mattress. now only $599, save $300. ends sunday. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this. surfs up. earn a $50 gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

tonight, the trump administration says it will not release numbers how many migrant children are in custody after being separated from their parents. in fact, the facts about this crisis are now a state secret. as of last tuesday, 2,047 kids in custody. we have no idea what it is tonight. democratic senators are demanding an update on this by friday. a judge has ordered all kids to be reunited with their parents by july 26. this video shows what these

reunions are like. a mother seeing her 7-year-old daughter after nearly two months apart. we spoke with the family just after that moment. >> every time i was in contact with her she cried. saying she missed me. she didn't want to be there. she just wanted to see her dad. and me. that was the most painful thing. >> this weekend, hundreds of thousands of people attended more than 700 rallies to protest trump's zero tolerance policy. >> you are putting them in cages, you're putting them in jails, and you think we're going to stand by and allow you to do that? i don't think so! >> even some 17 years later, i still remember how it felt when i first cried out for my parents

and they couldn't answer. >> we never, every single one of us, i will not stand for what's happening at our border. it is a gross violation of repon these family separations, and immigration attorney lucero ortiz. if i may begin with you, why doesn't the trump administration you think want the public to know how many migrant kids are in custody this evening? >> yes, one of the things that we've seen, there is no central coordination between all of the different agencies that are involved in the separation of families and must be at the table if these families are going going to be reunited in a timely fashion. for instance, as you all know, dhs agencies, cbp and i.c.e. are involved in the detention and prosecution of the families. then dhs transfers custody of the children over to hhs and

office of o.r.r. apologies for the acronyms. but this is the reality of the agencies we're working with. it is an alphabet soup of agencies and organizations it that are involved and there is no central coordination. one of the things that we've been calling for is transparency and accountability. because we know that many of the families that came in were not registered as family units. and that concerns us a lot because we know that some of those children that have been separated from their parents are already in foster care. foster care that is governed by state law. and we anticipate that many of these parents will have to fight for their custodial triets regain their children. so from the beginning of the implementation of this policy it has been an ad hoc process with no coordination no, planning, and ultimately no will to really make sure that these families really have contact or reunify in a timely fashion. >> it's interesting because you were just -- as you were listing all those acronyms i can imagine how difficult it is -- i mean, you're a lawyer. obviously, you have expertise in all these organizations. as a journalist we follow this

story. but i can imagine how difficult it is for the families just to get a list of all the various departments and agencies that they have to follow up with. i know mariana, you've been trying to do precisely that with so many of these families. how difficult is it for them to get information about their kids and where they are? >> it is overwhelming. that family that got reunified, their first language isn't even spanish. this little girl barely spoke spanish because it was hard for me to communicate with her. their first language is an indigenous language out of guatemala. these are people who have no belongings. their paperwork has been taken from them. they're in a strange country. and they're seeking refuge. they are fleeing violence. so it's very hard for them to navigate the legal system and to get their kids back. even though we witnessed that moment at the airport which was so heartwarming, it was also devastating when you looked at that little girl's face. i don't think that the video even does it justice because she

was clearly traumatized after that two-month separation. and i've been speaking, as you said, to so many other families who are still waiting to get their kids back. we still go back to these chants that we heard over the weeblgd, where are the babies? where are the girls? these reunifications according to organizers and lawyers like lucero are few and far between. just to give you one more specific example, i've been talking to a mother, maria. she came here with that migrant caravan that you remember i was embedded with. so she sought asylum at a legal port of entry. she's making her way from san diego to washington, d.c. on a bus. her kids ages 7 and 2 are in a facility in new york. she's being told she needs dna testing to get them back. and she's being told that they might end up in the hands of the government. >> picking up on that point and the challenges mariana described there, lucero-i know you're in the trenches working on this day in and day out. do you think the trump administration will have an issue reuniting these families before the court-imposed july

26th deadline? is that realistic? >> unfortunately, we do not see that it is realistic for all of these families to be reunited. again, these individuals came to the united states exercising their international rights to seek asylum. they have certain due process rights. and many of those rights have not been respected. ultimately, what we're also seeing is that even those of us that are able to represent individuals in short-representation or long-term representation have a very difficult time communicating with our clients. the phone services in these detention centers and other types of resources that we need to make very legitimate claims and compelling cases is unavailable to us. therefore, very basic communication is not available to legal counsel. we really don't see that families will be reunified in a timely fashion. and again, it concerns us drastically. >> it's absolutely heartbreaking

when you hear all of the conditions that the families have to deal with and how cumbersome of a process this has become. mariana atencio, lucero ortiz, thank you very much for your perspectives. i'll be right back. or are you gonna step up and take it? now introducing, aleve back and muscle pain. only aleve targets tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. so you can leave it all on the court. coach: no, kids, don't you do that! uncle drew: i could do this all day. yes, way to finish man! aleve back and muscle. all day strong. all day long. see uncle drew in theatres june 29th. when you combine ancestry's with its historical records... you could learn you're from ireland donegal, ireland and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com i receive travel rewards. going new places. (oh!) going out for a bite. going anytime. rewarded!

learn more at theexplorercard.com

all right. so trump has driven a wedge through some families at the dinner table, and now it's going to a whole new level. to the voters. a father and son who disagree about trump are running for the same state house seat in rhode island, believe it or not. you see there david caroa sr. and his son, david caroa jr.

filing last week to run for that seat. the father as a republican, the son as an independent. they're going to join me tomorrow right here on "the beat" to debate the issue and answer the big question everybody wants to know. how will mom vote? we'll tell you tomorrow. that does it for me. you can catch me on social media and tomorrow at 5:00 a.m. on "morning joe's first look." "hardball" starts right now. holding court. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. an epic political battle now shaping up over the president's choice to replace retiring spleekt justice anthony kennedy. today we learned more about how president trump is narrowing his list of candidates. he told reporters he's already interviewed four potential