tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 13, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PDT
defending my nation did my personal decisions impact any personal action i took. >> i strongly believe today's hearing is just another victory notch putinal belt and another mile snoen our enemy's campaign to tear america apart. >> ask you to read your own words. march 4, 2016. >> you want me to read this? >> yes, please. >> omg, he's an idiot. >> august 8, 2016. preface saying this for context, ms. page said, not ever going to become president. right? right? >> no, no he's not. we'll stop it. if you want to represent what you said accurately i'm happy to answer that question, but i don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. >> i don't give a damn what you appreciate, mr. strzok. >> i've talked to fbi agent it's around the country. you've embarrassed them, you've embarrassed yourself and i can't help but wonder when i see you looking there with a little smirk how many times did you
look so innocent into your wife's eye and lie to her about lisa page. >> mr. chairman, that's outrageous, this suggestion i somewhere in the dark chambers of the fbi would disregard and do this couldn't happen. the proposition that is going on, might occur anywhere in the fbi, deeply corrodes what the fbi is in america society, the effectiveness of their mission and it is deeply destructive. >> strzok struck back and wept on li -- went on like that over nine hours. a spectacle on capitol hill as two republican-led parties did not get that they want grilling fbi agent peter strzok over megs sent during the president's campaign. he defended himself and the fbi against accusations of some sort
of deep state conspiracy within the justice department. it was absolutely incredible. we're going to dig into that straight ahead with nbc news national political reporter heidi prisbella and donny deutsch is here. also columnist and associate eder for the "washington post," david ignatius who will weigh in on developments surrounding north korea as well, and read from his new piece entitled "better relations with russia are worthy, a worthy goal, but at what price?" plus, former justice department spokesman matt miller and former chief of staff at the cia jeremy bash who will both also react to jared kushner's problems gaining security clearance to view in of the nation's secrets. and washington anchor for bbc is here, katty kay ahead of the
meeting of president trump with theresa may ahead of president trump's highly criticized comments to a british newspaper. there's the balloon. it's donald trump in a diaper and his little hands are holding a phone. that -- is his british welcome to the uk from the people who feel strongly about this president. he says he's very popular. he is. baby trump is very popular in britain. joe has the morning off but will be back monday for the big trump/putin summit. live here, fact-checking the news conference that happens today on "morning joe" out of london if it happens on time. we begin with fbi agent peter strzok, the target of president trump's tweets and conspiracies about the russia probe, which is intended to protect our national security. testifying on capitol hill yesterday, he gave over nine
hours of testimony, grilled again and again and again about the text messages that got him removed from special counsel robert mueller's investigation, and written up in an inspector general's report. from the very outset, committee republicans threatened him with contempt for not providing more details about the investigation of trump's campaign suspected ties to russia. >> between july 31st and august 8, how many interviews did you conduct related to the alleged collusion between russia and the trump campaign? >> congressman, as you know, counsel for the fbi based on the special counsel's equities instructed me not to answer questions about the ongoing investigation -- >> i'm asking for a number -- >> of attempts -- >> agent strzok. >> i will not based on instruction of the fbi to me,
based 0en that i will not answer that question, because it goes to matters which are related to the ongoing investigations being undertaken by the special counsel -- >> mr. strzok, you have not state add valid legal basis for not responding to a question directed to you by a member of the united states house of representatives. i am specifically directing you to answer the question in response to our subpoena nos with standing your objection. >> point of order, mr. chairman. >> mr. strzok, please be advised that you can either comply with the committee's directive to answer the question or refuse to do so. the latter of which will place you at risk of a contempt citation and potential criminal liability. do you understand that? >> point of order, mr. chairman. >> the question is directed to the witness. >> i have a point of order before he answers the question. >> the point of order is not well taken -- >> you don't know what the point of order it. you can't say it's not well
taken. >> the witness will answer the question. >> mr. chairman, i raise my point of order and insist on it. >> what is the point of order? >> the united states attorneys manual instructs not to talk about ongoing investigation comment on nature or progress pursuant to fbi policy necessary so as not to allow us to subvert and ongoing criminal investigation. he is right. >> was it the discovery of your text, mr. strzok, it was the existence of your bias that got you kicked off. >> it is not my understanding he kicked me off due to any bias, based on appearance. i don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. >> i don't give a damn what you appreciate, agent strzok. i don't appreciate having an fbi agent with an unprecedented level of animus working on two government investigations during 2016. >> i think it's important when you look at those texts that you
understand the context in which they were made and the things going on across america. in terms of the text that we will stop it. you need to answer that that was written late at night off the cuff and it was in response to a series of events that included then candidate trump, insulting the immigrant family of a fallen war hero and my prezumps basump based and has horrible demonstration would not elect somebody demonstrating that behavior to be president of the united states. uneequivocally no suggestion that me, the fbi, would take any action whatsoever to improperly impact the electoral process, for any candidate. so i take great offense and i take great disagreement to your assertion of what that was or wasn't. as to the 100 million-1, clearly a statement made in jest using
hyperbole and i recognize that millions of american was likely to vote for president trump. i acknowledge that as their right, that's what makes our democracy the vibrant process it is. to suggest we can parse down the words of shorthand in contextual conversations like a contract for a car is simply not consistent with my or most people's use of text messaging. i can assure you, mr. chairman, at no time in any of these texts did those personal beliefs ever enter into the realm of any action i took, furthermore, this isn't just me sitting here telling you you don't have to take my word for it. at every step, at every investigative decision there are multiple layers of people above me, the assistant director, executive assistant director, deputy director and director, supervisors, unit chiefs case agents and analysts all involved in all of these decisions. they would not tolerate any impopper behavior in me any more
than i would tolerate it in them. that is who we are. that i would somehow toss aside these safeguards is astounding to me. it simply couldn't happen and the proposition that that is going on, that it might occur anywhere in the fbi deeply corrodes what the fbi is in american society, the effectiveness of their mission and it is deeply destructive. >> matt miller, jeremy bash. we had this patriot articulating beautifully what was driving him throughout this process, and the mistakes he made throughout the way, and then the republicans at times, it was a circus. had you a dentist struggling to find words saying he was reading his body language. little matt gates trying to play an attorney doing some sort of legal rundown and stumbling through that. jeremy, start with you and then matt follow up. what struck you about strzok's
testimony? >> yeah. i think he did a good job, mika, at times actually explaining the mission and professionalism of the federal bureau of investigation. something sort of lost in all of this partisan din. reasonable minds can differ whether his text messages democraten staited an impermissible bias. the facts, bob mueller removed him from the investigation more than a year ago and has not been involved in the investigation for a very long time and nothing that happened yesterday erases the fact the mueller investigation resulted in five criminal contradictivictions, p sitting in jail or facing jail at this hour because of their part in the russian investigation. nothing erations the fact bob mueller is conducting a principled, professional investigation. >> matt? >> i think the behavior of the
members of that committee was an absolute disgrace yesterday. this is from a couple committees not known for being packed with statesmen. that last clip you showed from peter strzok is a moment that will go down in history. you know, almost like the moment when joseph welts said have you no shame to members of the mccarthy committee. someone whose name was dragged through the mud explained to the committee and the american people just what was happening and just what the effect was on trust in the fbi and the fbi's ability to do its mission. i agree with jeremy. legitimate testimony about agent strzok's texts and what he said in the texts but the problem with what the members are congress were doing, never able to connect his beliefs about donald trump with his actions, with what he did as an fbi agent. and there is a logical fallacy at the heart of this entire conspiracy theory. as he pointed out in his testimony. he was one of the few people in america that knew in the fall of 2016 that donald trump's campaign was under investigation for collusion with the russian
government. he could have with one phone call to any reporter in america probably end donald trump's campaign and ensure he wasn't elected president and he didn't do that. hard to believe he was part of a big conspiracy to keep president trump from becoming president when he had the opportunity. >> i can't believe body language was brought up as something to be important. i can't read body language but i can read faces and hear when someone is struggling for words because they feel they're striking out. the republicans seemed like they were striking out, heidi, again and again, not gheetting what ty wanted and it went on nine hours. what did they think they were going to get? >> i'm a reporter and look for facts. at the end of this i tried to think of what new did i learn other than what i knew at the very beginning. that peter strzok sent mean texts about trump and did it on his professional device instead of his personal device.
we learned nothing new other than that, and make no mistake. the republicans said over and over again they were only questioning strzok. it wasn't a reflection on the fbi, were ut it wbut it was bece fbi inspector general found the texts in peter strzok's personal feelings had no impact on the inarrest invaei investigation. end of the day, hard to know what he learned. >> a long, long day. >> strzok sat through hours of testimony republican house members tried and failed to trigger reaction. take a look. >> in front of you, one sheet of paper that was presented to you a few minutes ago. and i'm going to just go, go to a date and ask you to read your own words. on october 20th, 2016 -- >> i can't pull away what the -- i defer to the chairman whether or not you -- >> use one letter if you don't mind. >> what the f happened to our countr country, lis.
>> read it again. >> was is uninintelligible. >> just need you to read it again, please. >> sure. happy to indulge you. >> i'm a dentist so i read body language very, very well amend i watched you comment on accesses with mr. gowdy. you got very angry in regards to the gold star father. that shows me that it's innately a part of you in a bias. >> sir, i disagree. i don't know if you're saying it's an experience like being at the dentist but i would tell you, sir, what you see in my response is a genuine passion for the united states of america. >> what this man has done -- >> the gentleman from texas will suspend for a moment. >> -- there is the disgrace and it won't be recaptured anytime soon, because of the damage you've done to the justice system, and i've talked to fbi agents around the country. you've embarrassed them. you've embarrassed yourself, and i can't help but wonder when i
see you looking there with a little smirk how many times did you look so innocent into your we've the eye and lie to her about lisa -- >> mr. chairman, this is outrageous. >> -- a witness is always an issue. >> mr. chairman, please -- >> have you no -- >> this is intolerable harassment of the witness. >> you need your medication. >> i think he does, honestly. because who's embarrassing who at this point? you know, some shows really chop things up and get a little sound bite here and there. we let things breathe, and the republicans are just -- at this point it has been very difficult to watch, because you see them really grasping here to insult this man, to shake him down. to find something more beyond the texts, and to overly focus on him and his texts to the point where they don't hear him saying that he cares about this
country, that he cares about what's happening to this country as it pertains to russia. he cares about our national security. that's what he was trying to say and people are reading body language. alex, your dad's a dentist. >> he is. >> bring up alex. so is that -- is that what he does? >> my dad's a dentist, pediatric dentist. >> good as body language? >> in no way does being a dentist make you an expert at body language. it just doesn't. >> mika, i walked about four hours yesterday. i don't have much of a life. >> oh, i watched. >> i was screaming at the democrats. every time they game to a democrat, we're having a meetinging here, yet we can't get a committee meeting on anything after kids are killed by guns in schools. we can't get a committee meeting when kids are being ripped from their parents on -- we can get a committee hearing over these texts. shame, shaiman these pa thaethe
republicans also disparaged hillary clinton and bernie sanders. by the way, every judge, every fbi agent, every police officer, every congressman, every -- has a bias. it doesn't mean they bring it to their job, and this man -- everybody votes. every single person in public office has -- >> called america -- >> doesn't mean they can't do their job and this is a man dedicated -- these little dweebs sitting there, discourse, the way they present them. trey gowdy, i don't care what you have to say -- >> trey gowdy of the 2.5 year benghazi investigation saying i'm concerned about investigations being partisan. trey gowdy, seriously, seriously, talking out of both sides of his mouth. if anybody is being partisan and taking sides and running to his corner it's that little guy right there one of these guys referred to, bob mueller, can't pronounce the guy's name. i cannot wait until mr. mueller's report comes out.
>> me, too. >> and 20 indictments now. >> looking forward to it. >> wonder if it's up to 40 and 60, and if we can come back and any of these congressmen can say, oh, i guess the reason those happened is because mr. strzok sent a text to a friend of his. that's the reason for the indictments. they should be ashamed of themselves and i do believe if anybody watches this they will understand -- >> fascinating. >> why there will be a blue wave. people are fed up with these pathetic snibbling little cowards. >> i sat behind hillary clinton for benghazi in this hearing. this felt like a rebate of benghazi, actually a lot of the same players except it was the fbi sitting in that seat. when peter strzok was finally given his moment to speak freely he said, this exercise comes at a cost, at a cost of eventually eroding the underpinnings of law and order in this country when you are teaching a whole new generation to dus distrust the
top law agency. >> an opportunity to rehabilitation his reputation almost almost a year of -- >> devastating. >> -- a year of smears. and secretarily, there's a reason republicans are called the stupid party. my old colleague used to say there are certain ideas that vanish in the presence of thought. the idea there was a bias at the fbi towards hillary clinton is simply refuted by the fact that the fbi was the one agency of government which played a decisive role in getting donald trump elected, and furthermore, you know, our friend on this show dan senor tweeted about a year ago that as late as march or february -- february or march of 2016, a certain indiana governor was -- was saying to him that donald trump must not be allowed to become the nominee
of the republican party. so if vice president pence is allowed to have that bias up until march of 2016, why is agent strzok not allowed to have it up until the summer of that year? there were -- i can name dozens of prominent republicans including people who then are now serving in this administration who thought exactly as agent strzok did throughout the 2016 election. maybe they should step down from office and -- instead of -- >> all right. so i want to bring it to david ignatius to really wrap up what he thinks happened yesterday and what he thinks the outcome of this was. i will read a tweet. steve schmidt was live tweeting, former republican. oh, my gosh. he says this -- that was an oversight you know it. harassment, conspiracy theories,
wack job, demagoguery wrapped in a blanket. this country needs statesmen and women, you know well. think about stepping it up. i can honestly say after watching trey gowdy first time in my 47 years i can honestly say, thank god i'm bald. okay. so we all start to lose our mind watching this, because it just seemed like, if you were trying to create an produce a show where you could set up a villain, i was not just confused who the villain was, it was very clear who the hero was by the end of the nine hours of pounding this guy. david? >> well, it was a snapshot of political life in 2018, and it was really a depressing one. we are a long way from mr. smith goes to washington and jimmy stewart and, you know, we don't live in that world anymore. i thought peter strzok did himself some good. those e-mails, naked, read, are
pretty damning, and he explained them in a coherent way. i thought peter strzok did the fbi some good. he just sounded like an fbi guy. spoke with such passion about what the bureau is and does. and i thought the republicans on the committee just turned this into a show trial and did more to discredit the gop effort to undermine mueller's investigation than any event that we've seen. that's really the, my takeaway from yesterday, this is, this long show trial-like grilling leaves the republican argument, that this is all political and outrageous a lot weaker than it was. so that's -- we'll see where they go from here, but i think most people looking in to that would have just shaken their heads and said, i don't know. that doesn't sound right, what trey gowdy is saying. doesn't sound right to me. still ahead on "morning joe" -- actually i want to grab
katty kay. we'll talk to you about what happened in london, but do you have reflections from watching these hearings? >> you've had two incidents you wonder what is going through the minlts of vladimir putin watching what's going on here in the united states and at the nato summit and in europe. in both cases, intentional or not, the country that benefits from the disintegration of that intelligence committee and as mr. strzok said himself yesterday is moscow. and watching what was going on and the exposure of those divisions in the committee and the partisanship of those members on the committee, you can't help but think -- i don't know if this is intentional or not, but america at the moment is handing moscow's own goals, whether the president trump in nato or the members in that chamber yesterday. >> and trying to get him to speak specifically about investigations that impact our national security. by the way, he was on two major investigations. one on hillary clinton, which he made very clear he was as
aggressive and the other, of course, candidate trump. so -- if you watched, you felt like you were watching an american hero being brought down, which is, is that what we do? i didn't know that. up next, the latest pictures out of the uk where president trump and prime minister theresa may are set to hold a joint news conference just a short time from now. it comes just hours after the president cut the legs out from under his counterpart in an interview with the british press. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (vo) we came here for the friends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe
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i told her how 0 to do it. she decided to go a different way. >> you would be prepared to got the other way. >> it's unfortunate. i did give theresa, who i like, i did give her my views on what she should do and how she should negotiate. and she didn't follow those, because i would actually say she probably went the opposite way. i think the deal that she's striking is not what the people voted on. it's a much different deal than the people voted on. it was not the deal that was in the referendum. i know they have a lot of resignations. so a lot of people don't like it. no, but it will definitely affect trade with the united states, unfortunately in a negative way. >> if they do a deal like that, it will most likely, because we'll be dealing with the -- european union instead of dealing with uk. so it will probably kill the deal -- if they do that, their
trade deal with the u.s. will probably not be made. >> no. if they do that, i would say that that would probably end a major trade relationship with the united states. >> those are portions of president trump's interview with "the sun" criticizing prime minister theresa may's brexit strategy among other things. the two leaders are set to answer questions side-by-side in just a little while. we will be going to that live. a lot happened here symbolically, katty kay, including who the president chose to go visit first. >> yes. i mean, the fact he had this very glamorous dinner last night was laid on for him in -- outside london, and this was the offering that theresa may gave him. you can see the pictures. magical. the lighting was beautiful. everyone looked incredible and
it was half way through this meeting with theresa may and 150 that we got news of this interview. this was worse than just going to dinner and insulting your host while there. theresa may's government, her leadership hangs in the balance this week in the uk over this brexit plan and donald trump has just take an bulldozer and driven straight through that plan and potentially straight through the prime minister's leadership. at the moment they're having a meeting at her country residence. he was just asked whether he regretted that interview in "the sun" newspaper and he just looked away apparently rather awkwardly. we understand they're going to give a press conference and he will try to reframe some of those remarks but make no mistake. he could not have said something more damaging to theresa may, the british prime minister at a more sensitive moment. >> oh, my god. david ignatius, your thoughts? >> like katty, this is just a
remarkably undiplomatic diplomacy. one of the british papers, "the daily mirror" headlined, the ego has landed, when he got to britain, and to see all of this entirely in terms of his own negotiating skill. that was a part of the interview i found most amazing. well, i wouldn't have done that way. i tried to tell her but she didn't listen to me. almost as if he was going to punish her for not following his tutelage and eager to show he knows how to negotiate. other people don't. it illustrates what an isolated position the united states has these days. >> yep. >> estranged from the european union, traditionally key allies, estranged from great britain, traditionally our closest ally. the president arrives with a dagger. he stabbed theresa may not in the back, in the front on
arrival, and it's just extraordinary. whether her government can survive, as katty suggested, is the real question. >> their joint news conference will be fascinating. we look forward to that during the show today. but heidi, he had a lot to -- >> the country and the wider continent. >> what happened to europe is a shame. allowing immigration to take place in europe is a shame. i think it changed the fabric of europe and unless you act very quickly, it's never going to be what it was and i don't mean that in a positive way. so i think allowing millions and millions of people to come in to europe is very, very sad. i think you're losing your culture. >> sometimes we try and analyze why he's doing what he's doing and sometimes i think it comes
down to something simple that i've dealt with ceos like this. >> uh-huh. >> before you show up, whatever was there was broken. in order to feed yourself, you come off of nato. just, because it's inarguable why we have nato. it's common sense even for a first year political science student, but that the level of -- he doesn't exist in his mind unless it was this way. now it's this way because i'm here. it was that way -- regardless of the sdprudestruction and modus rendous if you watch his approach to everything. he can only feel alive if he destroys and then somehow is the center of things, regardless of what is going on. i think that just simply is what drives him behind a policy issue, a human tick, an inability to understand what's in front of him other than how can i supersede what is going on and what came before me. >> abraham lincoln in one of his great speeches said the problem
with democracy after a generation of builders you get a democracy of destroyers, ego, tearing things up rather than stitching them together or building them up, referring to the confederacy. in a sense, something about that psychology with donald trump as well and an ideology at place. this is a guy who hates all forms of immigration. what he was saying with respect to european immigration is not so different than what he is saying with respect to american immigration, but there's another point, which is, this is a guy who has taken as his mantra america first. that is the mantra of the isolationist before world war ii. what we're quickly discovering is that america first also means america alone and quickly means america hated, and i don't think it has dawned on this president or ever will dawn on this president how -- how short the road is between america first and america hated.
we have never been so despised and i can think back to george w. bush administration, reagan administration, even back to the vietnam war. we have never been so despised by the people who ought to be our allies as we are today. saddest thing to say as an american and someone who loves this country is, it's very hard to offer my european friends, my european wife, any excuses for the behavior of this government towards the very people who have stood with us through thick and thin for over 100 years. >> you can just take, like, the past ten hours of news and encapsulate why you said exactly what you've said. the scorched earth at the nato summit literally going out the door with the president's comments in a news conference being undermined directly and called untrue because they were by the president of france. saying that did not happen, mr. president. as we had to fact check his news conference in realtime, because
so many things he said even about his own election win were wrong. that happened at the end of the nato summit which did not seem to go too well for our allies. rudeness and insults as he heads to britain, as he lands hoondan he goes to talk to. what is britain's prime minister supposed to do at this point as he insults her, undermines her and gets ready to do a press conference with her which we will take live on "morning joe," all the while this is happening republicans on capitol hill abusing, harassing, haranging and desperately pulling at the air for some sort of answer that might, perhaps, back up their point that this guy is not a patriot, that this fbi agent was not doing his job, that smoomeh the fbi agent was in some way
leaning from one side to the other, wasn't doing his duties and you saw the fbi agent eck intoing for himself. anybody who watched that, listened to him, because he was the only one who could really finish a sentence in a coherent way and all you could hear was a man who loves america, who made mistakes, who is now being ab e abused by a bunch of stuttering, bumbling republicans on capitol hill because they have their base watching, and they know they need to throw red meat out to their base using this guy as their victim to get there. that's what america looks like today. let's bring in the co-founder of axios, mike allen. mike, you have more on the president's trip. what you got? >> yeah, mika. calling this the trump tornado. the worst guest. the pound is falling this morning and as you just suggested. her government could fall over this, and mika, the irony of this is that the brexit -- brexit planned this trip as a layout. set up great pictures we're
seeing here. kept him outside of london. kept him away from the baby blimp, baby trump blimp with its diapers and trying to make this little respite ahead of his summit with putin. instead we see the president who is just saying what's on his mind, thinking about "his" base, not considering the consequences for her, and the rupert murdoch paper, largest paper in britain, saying this pores nitghtroglyce on this subject here. at brexit, no way to do more damage with what he said. >> mike allen, thank you. and still ahead, jared kushner granted a permanent security clearance back in may but apparently doesn't have access still to the nation's most sensitive intelligence. a good thing, radio it?
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earlier we played democratic congresswoman bonny watson coleman of new jersey asking republican louis go ered gohmert if he was off his medication. it was great. and democrats pointed out hypocrisy on strzok's personal opinion of mr. trump, if anybody should the pissed at the fbi because you all helped this unfit man become president of the united states by not revealing to the people that he was under investigation in his campaign it should be me. they should be applauding you, kissing you and giving you all awards, because but for you we would have had a legitimate president elected. >> the following e-mail, character matters, real donald
trump is obviously not going to win but can still make an honorable move, step aside and let someone else. did you write that e-mail? >> i don't believe i did. >> no republican senator ben sassy wrote that. another unforgivable sin. he should be here apparently. my wife julia and i have a 15-year-old daughter. do you think i can look her in the eye and tell her i endorse donald trump when he acts like this and his apology? that was no apology. that was an apology for getting caught. i can't tell the good people of my state i endorse a person who acts like this. was that mr. mr. strzok? >> no, sir. >> republicanin my committee. i can't vote for president trump and not hillary clinton. that's yours? >> no. >> republican comstalk from our home state of virginia. >> and senator rubio, donald
trump should not be our president. did you organize that. >> no. >> called donald trump a moron, scott pruitt, empty vessel when it comes to the constitution. steve bannon like an 11-year-old child. general h.r. mevery -- mc34567m mcmaster a dope with the intelligence of a kindergartner. he's an a hole but he's our a hole and an e-mail describes trump as an idiot surrounded by clowns. were all of these negative characterizations of donald trump part of a deep state gop conspiracy engineered by you and your friends? >> no. >> pretty much -- >> matt miller, jeremy bash, our experts on national security. i feel this was more of a hearing that gave us a sense how people feel about donald trump, and if donald trump was watching but too busy being extremely
rude to theresa may and leaving some scorched earth at the nato summit, but had he been watching he would have been very, very angry, because there were a lot of really harsh things that were said by really important people about president donald trump. what was proven yesterday exactly? start with matt and then follow-up with jeremy. >> you know, i think one of the things that was proven, if you look at peter strzok's text messages. if you look at text messages of many of the members of that committee, the republican members of that committee, leave aside the real mega heads, louie gohmert and some of the true believers, would you have seen them saying much the same thing. not just in 2016 but now. i think the point that peter strzok was trying to make is, like some of the republican members of congress, like some of the people that serve in donald trump's administration, you can think the president is a dangerous moron and still behave ethically and still behave responsibly in your job. that was the thing the republicans were never able to connect his personal beliefs about donald trump with how he
behaved as an fbi agent. >> jeremy? >> clearly, there were things peter strzok was learning as part of the investigation causing him to have such alarm early on about donald trump. i think in light of the fact that those text messages were written that mueller did the right thing removing him from the investigation. the point isn't whether or not this individual has a bias for or against donald trump. the point is that he's not part of the investigation. the mueller investigation has been professionally led, the intelligence community has found there's a consensus view not only did russia meddle but did it to help donald trump and republican-led intelligence committee found the same. nothing that happened yesterday, mika, actually changes the broader issue. that the investigations are continuing and are of very serious nature. >> they are. still ahead, president trump shared a letter from kim jong-un touting great progress but apparently sent before the north korean leader chose to visit a potato farm over a meety with
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senior white house adviser jared kushner lacks security clearance of the government's most sensitive secrets according to people familiar with his access. the white house granted his son-in-law only top secret status in late may, a level that doesn't allow him to see some of the country's most guarded intelligence. kushner isn't approved to view sensitive information which blocked him at times from seeing some parts of the president's daily brief. the reasons for the constraints on his intelligence access are currently unclear, including if it is related to the on-going mueller investigation. joining us now, one of "the washington post" reporters on the story on jared kushner and msnbc contributor, carol lenik.
why would he have limited access? what concerns, what connection to the mueller investigation could there be? >> i'll ask carol, she has this great reporting in the post, does this distinction between top secret clearance and sensitive come part meanted clearance, does that prevent him from playing a broader role in the middle east peace process. in my experience, you niece s-- need sci to be involved in this peace making. >> great question, jeremy. we posed it to several security clearance lawyers. they basically said this is a huge impediment to him doing his job. most junior intelligence staffers have access to sensitive information, which is the crown jewels of the intelligence community secrets,
sources and methods of how you learn things. and he doesn't have it. so that might be difficult especially they said in trying to craft a peace plan. this is a thorny region of the world where our intelligence is critical to understanding palestine, israel, saudi arabia, all their interests. he isn't allowed to see that material, we are told, and the intelligence agency is holding up his ability to see it. >> matt miller jumped in, i thought he was going to solve peace in the middle east. >> doesn't seem likely. carol, what were you able to find out about how the decision was made, who made the decision to grant him a security clearance, i am especially curious what position department of justice might have taken given that they typically recommend against security clearances for people under investigation, what it means for his status in the mueller probe, and i asked the question because of the white house's poor record
in this regard when you look back at the rob porter case, they allowed someone that didn't have clearance long after the fbi warned them about damaging information. >> matt, that's also a good question. we heard so much clamoring. what we do know is important to mention and what we don't know is important to mention. what we do know is that the white house authored this clearance that he received with great fanfare in may. the white house granted him top secret clearance. we heard, i don't know if this is accurate, we heard people complaining they feel there was pressure for the white house to give him a cleernarance. he had his clearance downgraded in february, he was operating with interim clearance without any completion of his background investigation for a year. so he had really blanket access without a final decision about whether he was someone who could be trusted with these kinds of
secrets. back to what we don't know, what we don't know is why the cia and intelligence agency has not agreed to give him access to the higher level of material. what's often referred to as better than top secret. and you can't tell whether that is because of the mueller investigation, if he is still under a cloud which many say he was not. now that question arises again. we don't know if it is just taking the intelligence community a little more time to review his very complex set of financial ties and his extensive foreign contacts, some of which he did not reveal over several months of amending forms about foreign contacts. >> thank you so much for your reporting. jeremy bash, matt miller, thank you both as well for being on on this very busy morning. we have much more ahead on the fiery nine hours of testimony on capitol hill as
embattled fbi agent peter strzok went back and forth with house republicans as they desperately try to defame him. we're joined by democrat eric swawell, and mark meadows also joining us. and "the washington post" eugene robinson here with his piece on the trump administration and kidnapped children. someone should go to jail. that's the question we have been wanting to ask. where are the children? and how will they be reunited with families. you promised there would be. they're still not. there may be some incompetence here holding lives in the balance. morning joe will be right back. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪
and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. this condition has not been reported with entyvio. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's treatment isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach. joe." it is friday. can you believe this week? think about everything that happened this week, it is mind numbing. friday, july 13th.
we have nbc news national political reporter with us, editor for "the washington post," david ignatius, bret stevens, clint watts, and barbara mcquaid, professor of history at tulane, walter isaacson, and columnist, associate of "the washington post," eugene robinson. joe has the morning off. we'll get to the strzok hearing in a moment. it was something else. first, a little color from the president's trip overseas which seemed endless when it came to the unbelievably embarrassing situations. bbc spoke with a sun reporter that interviewed the president. he said sarah huckabee sanders tried to end the interview with the sun, but trump swatted her away and kept on talking, well beyond the ten minutes allotted
for the interview. the reporter walked away with the impression that the president is unchallenged in his own organization, saying i felt it was being in the court of an imperial chinese emperor from the 15th century. patty kay, that's the view from across the pond. >> that imperial chinese emperor landed like a bombshell. will theresa may survive this brexit deal, we don't know. donald trump hasn't helped her in the course of that process. this has been a sensitive week for the prime minister, domestically, politically at home, and the president made it exponentially harder for her to keep her government together over brexit plans. i don't know whether donald trump during that sun interview was thinking i want to get rid of theresa may and have boris johnson who i know and like and have this empathetic relationship with, i want him to be the prime minister.
he did say he liked boris johnson, he would make a great prime minister, also not the kind of thing you usually say when you're about to visit the actual prime minister. uproar in the uk over the president's remarks. you've seen the demonstrations and angry trump baby floating above parliament square. two leaders themselves are trying to make nice in that litt, both asked about the sun interview and both of them looking awkward about it. >> that's going to continue as we look forward to the news conference later. now to peter strzok, in the president's tweets about the russia probe. testifying on capitol hill, he gave over nine hours of testimony about text messages that got him removed from
special counsel robert mueller's investigation, written up in an inspector general report which he cited several times. from the outset, republicans threatened him with content for not providing more details about trump campaign suspected ties to russia. >> between july 31st and august 8, how many interviews did you conduct related to the alleged collusion between russia and the trump campaign? >> congressman, as you know counsel for the fbi based on the special counsel's equities has instructed me not to answer questions about the on-going investigation. >> i'm asking for a number. >> of russian attempts. >> thank you, agent strzok. >> i will not based on direction of the fbi to me, based on that, i will not answer that question because it goes to matters which
are related to the on-going investigations undertaken by the special counsel. >> you have not stated a valid legal basis for not responding to a question directed to you by a member of the united states house of representatives. i am specifically directing you to answer the question in response to our subpoena, notwithstanding your objection. >> point of order, mr. chairman. >> mr. strzok, please be advised you can either comply with the committee's directive to answer the question or refuse to do so, the latter of which will place you at risk of contempt citation and potential criminal liability. do you understand that? >> point of order, mr. chairman. >> the question is directed to the witness. >> i have a point of order before he answers the question. >> the point of order is not well taken. >> you don't know what it is, you can't say it is not well taken. >> the point of order. the witness will answer the question. >> mr. chairman, i raise my point of order and insist on it.
>> what is the point of order? >> the united states attorney's manual instructs department personnel not to respond to questions about existence of an on-going investigation or comment on its nature or progress, pursuant to fbi policy which is necessary so as not to allow us to subvert an on-going criminal investigation. he is right. >> it wasn't the discovery of your texts, mr. strzok, it was the existence of your bias that got you kicked off. >> it is not my understanding he kicked me off because of any bias, it was done based on appearance. you want to represent what you said accurately, i am happy to answer the question. i don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. >> i don't give a damn what you appreciate, agent strzok, i don't appreciate an fbi agent with unprecedented level of and must working on two major investigations during 2016. >> i think it is important when you look at those texts that you understand the context in which they're made and things that were going on across america.
in terms of texts that we will stop it, you need to understand that was written late at night off the cuff in response to a series of events that included then candidate trump insulting the immigrant family of a fallen war hero and my presumption based on that horrible, disgusting behavior that the american population would not elect somebody demonstrating that behavior to be president of the united states. it was in no way unequivocally any suggestion that me, the fbi, would take any action whatsoever to improperly impact the electoral process for any candidate. so i take great offense and i take great disagreement to your a assertion of what it was or wasn't. that was clearly a statement made ingest and using hyperbole, i recognized millions were likely to vote for candidate trump. i acknowledge that is their
right, that's what makes our democracy a vibrant process that it is. to suggest somehow that we can parse down words of shorthand text conversations like they're some contract for a car is simply not consistent with my or most people's use of text messaging. i can assure you, mr. chairman, at no time in any of these texts did the personal beliefs ever enter the realm of any action i took. furthermore, this isn't just me sitting here telling you, you don't have to take my word for it. at every step, at every investigative decision there are multiple players of people above me, assistant director, director, and multiple layers of people below me. all of whom were involved in all of these decisions. they would not tolerate improper behavior in me any more than i would tolerate it in them. that is who we are as the fbi. the suggestion that i in some
dark chamber in the fbi would somehow cast aside all of these procedures, all of these safeguards and somehow be able to do this is astounding to me. it simply couldn't happen. the proposition that that is going on, that it might occur in the fbi, deeply corrodes the fbi, the effectiveness of their mission and it is deeply destructive. >> clint watts, barbara mcquaid, respond to that exchange. how did he do? what's your gut reaction to the whole thing. clint, start with you. >> the republicans on the committee, turns out you bring in a guy made a mistake but one of the smarter agents in the fbi, he is going to kick their butt in a one on one session. the congressman didn't understand the procedures. you had him thinking the chairman thought he subpoenaed the fbi agent. he hadn't done that. you can see reaction from lawyers in the room. at the same point, we have to
ask what service was it to the u.s. constitution and to our constituents with this hearing, whether it is the fbi or congress who looks silly after that entire hearing. we have seen degradation of two institutions at the hands of an investigation about russia. this entire theater going on helps one person above others, vladimir putin, and does nothing to serve the american people. after i think we get to the end of this, i hope we let the mueller investigation proceed and this congressional theater pass. >> do you think it is worth everyone, barbara, looking at what happened, that does represent where congress is. you could see they may as well have red meat in front of them, hand it to constituents. but the concern i had is that strzok seemed so prepared. first of all, explain exactly
what his job title is. >> i believe deputy assistant director of counter intelligence. and he had run it back with the big russia sting in 2010 which was one of the most complex investigations in the united states against russia. this is a brilliant guy that knows his investigation. >> in charge of or involved with two major investigations, one with hillary clinton, and this one. you had bumbling freshman congressman matt gates, looking at notes, trying to figure out how to catch him in something when there was nothing. a dentist reading body language. barbara, help me understand what the republicans accomplished here. did they get what they wanted? >> i don't think so. i agree with clint. i think peter strzok acquitted himself well. he wanted this opportunity to tell america he was not biased, this was just a personal opinion and demonstrate the
professionalism that he uses and that the fbi uses. i also agree this was political theater. and i think they weren't so bumbling. i think the congressman knew what he could and couldn't answer. there are regulations that are worked out in advance about what a witness may testify to, and they knew he wouldn't be able to talk about a pending investigation, yet they wanted the opportunity to take him on. >> heidi, i'll let you jump in. let's listen to a bit more, testimony from capitol hill. >> in front of you, you have one sheet of paper that was presented to you a few minutes ago and i'm going to just go to a date and ask you to read your own words. on october 20th, 2016. >> i can't pull away, i defer to the chairman. >> you can use one letter. >> why the f, what the f happened to our country. >> read it again that way. >> sir, did you not -- >> i want to hear it one more
time. >> you need me to repeat it? >> please. >> happy to indulge you. >> i'm a dentist. i read body language very, very well. i watched you comment in actions with mr. gowdy. you got very angry in regards to the gold star father. that shows me that it is innately a part of you in a bias. >> sir, i disagree. i don't know if you're saying this experience is like being at the dentist, if that's what you're suggesting, i would tell you, sir, what you see in my response is a genuine passion for the united states of america. >> what this man has done -- >> the gentleman from texas will suspend. >> it is a disgrace. and it won't be recaptured anytime soon because of damage you've done to the justice system. i talked to fbi agents around the country. you've embarrassed them, you've embarrassed yourself, and i
can't help but wonder when i see you looking there with a little smirk how many times did you look so innocent into your wife's eye and lie to her -- >> mr. chairman, this is outrageous. >> please. >> this is harassment of the witness. >> you need your medication. >> there are a couple of things pointed out there that seemed to me to fly in the face of right and wrong. the rudeness and the incredible comments on the part of the president about a gold star father, that's not bias. i think most people who understand the limits of common decency, heidi, would feel something when they heard that said. that's not about bias, that's knowing the difference between right and wrong and feeling a
sense of humanity about another person. >> to barbara's point on theater, there were so many moments you felt he was being wronged, starting from the get go when he was asked, told to answer a question that they knew darn well he could not answer because he had his lawyers standing right behind him, threatening him with contempt. walter, what did you make of this? >> you have to look at the picture, tie it into trump's trip now because as strzok said this plays into the hands of vladimir putin. this is another notch in his belt. what putin wants is total disarray of nato, breakup of the european union, to have meddled in our election, and donald trump has the ability not only to be poisoned in his weird relationship with this murderous tyrant, vladimir putin, but be
like a virus that has now infected large segments of the republican party that seem to be willing to not care about russian meddling in the election. playing right into trump and oddly enough be supporting an adversary like trump and turn against things like european union and nato. i'm stunned the reporter party allowed itself to be infected, and you saw the outbreak of the infection in that unbelievable behavior at the hearing. >> let me pick up on what walter said. clint, imagine you're on the other team. you're a russian fsb agent and want to run an influence operation in the united states. take us through a few of the steps you would consider. >> first thing you do is you see
accounts in social media, players, operatives, political parties, ngos, groups like that into the u.s. audience space, align with them based on interest, financial being a big one, information being another one, common issues, like america first. if america puts america first and the world second, russia can get on the world stage. the angle is a behavior change in target audience. we saw it happen last week. saw senators go to russia and repeat lines that russia would want them to say. sanctions aren't working. maybe you shouldn't pursue these, or everybody does influence and meddling, senator shelby, repeated a line you will hear come out of the kremlin. that's the behavior change they want. the thing we don't realize is that it is boiling, it is slow and it is to nudge the target audience, republican party to
take on your agenda. we saw it again yesterday. you saw republicans in congress attacking another u.s. institution to defend president trump who is under investigation from a russia collusion and obstruction case. have your adversary fight with itself so they can't fight with you and withdraw on the world stage, walter is right. at every point with the exception of one removal of sanctions, russia advanced its goals and foreign policy. >> i want donny's take later on on exactly what happened yesterday from a branding, messaging perspective. seems to me the story about strzok and page in text messages is easier to make look more nefarious or to manipulate towards one direction or another. but seeing peter strzok testifying yesterday, i think it actually is one of those
situations where they made a victim of him. you're sitting there in the audience or as an american citizen watching what's happening in washington, number one, you're feeling bad for this guy. number two, you're seeing a patriot trying to do his job, trying to make the best of a really difficult situation. patty kay. >> i was wondering how this plays around trump's base, whether what they saw yesterday is the same thing, whether they get the same take away we get from watching strzok. in this topsy turvy world, it is sometimes hard to predict how it plays out. gene, what do you think, when you watch that performance and members of the republican committee's performance, do you think this increases what the opinion polls are starting to show us, that people start to think the whole thing is politically motivated on russia or do you think they look at this, think strzok was given a bad deal by congressmen trying
to score political points? >> i doubt that there was a whole lot of great sympathy for peter strzok among the trump base. i think people who are fervent supporters of president trump probably remember the texts and keep them in their minds and are not inclined to embrace peter strzok as a loyal, determined, dedicated fbi agent. however, they didn't really lay a glove on him in terms of demonstrating what they wanted to demonstrate, some systemic bias against donald trump that he somehow set in motion, that is the poison tree from this whole investigation is the fruit. they didn't demonstrate that.
i believe there was a hold yesterday showing the majority of respondents saying let the mueller investigation take its time and come to its conclusion rather than the other choice which was wrap it up. i think that view probably changed and i think the base wants to see the investigation finish. >> if it was surreal to watch this hearing, imagine sitting at the center of it. congressman eric swalwell was there. >> mr. strzok, in a moment we will continue with the hearing, but based on your refusal to answer the question at the conclusion of the day, we will be recessing the hearing, you will be subject to recall to allow the committee to consider proceeding with a contempt citation. >> point of order, mr. chairman. will the committee consider contempt for mr. bannon who refused to answer mr. gowdy's questions when he was under subpoena? >> that's not a proper point of order in this hearing. >> parliamentary inquiry.
>> time is controlled. >> parliamentary inquiry. >> that's not in order. >> yeah. there were so many times the california democrat joins us now, eric, where it felt like republicans were asking him questions but then when he started giving answers he didn't like, they would cut him off to try to stop those answers from being on the record because it wasn't going exactly the way they wanted to. what is your take as to what happened yesterday? >> good morning, mika. the republicans didn't show up yesterday to hear the answers, they wanted to use the questions to undermine bob mueller's investigation. i asked for mr. bannon to be subpoenaed because he was under subpoena when he testified before the house intelligence committee. a number of members, including mr. gowdy, asked about his involvement with russians during the campaign and the administration, he refused to
answer, was never brought in for contempt proceedings as threatened with mr. strzok. i wanted to be sure the public saw the deep, deep inconsistency which i think illustrates this is all an effort to protect the president and nothing more than that when our ballot box and our democracy needs more protecting than ever. >> david? >> i wanted to ask you what you would say to a member of the public watching this whose conclusion was this is all politics. i don't know about peter strzok, but this is a circus. there is that feeling in the country. lot of people fear that's going to undermine mueller's investigation, or get swallowed up in this political environment. how do you think that can be prevented? >> it was the wrong hearing, wrong priorities. children are still separated at the border. this is the committee that has jurisdiction to do something about it, they did nothing for those children yesterday. david, i would also say for
future kids who read about history in the classroom, i hope they saw yesterday that my democratic colleagues showed up and fought for rule of law as we see it under attack every single day. we're not going to allow republicans to break the safe of the fbi evidence locker, to turn it over to a subject in the investigation, the president of the united states, that we stood firmly against it. i don't think the republicans accomplished what they sought to accomplish yesterday, but also taking one step back here when you put it in a greater perspective, president trump attacked james comey and peter strzok repeatedly throughout the investigation, but those two have put their right hands up and gone under oath to talk about their involvement in the russia investigation. that distinguishes them from him. let's see if he's willing to do the same and talk with bob mueller. >> congressman, it is heidi, how you doing. >> hey, heidi. >> we learned about the context of the texts that were sent. for instance, the republicans came back again and again to
this text, we will stop it. he was allowed to give context on that, said look, this came after a series of events, including trump denigrating the parents of a fallen war hero. what did you make of his opportunity there to put some of the texts in context? >> i don't like that he was talking that way because we want fbi agents to be sort of above the politics and not have the perception of impropriety. there was no evidence that there were other agents working on this case independent of mr. strzok. he was not the sole decision maker to close the clinton investigation, not the sole decision maker to open the trump investigation. when i was a prosecutor and you had questionable conduct by a police officer, you would seek to rehabilitate their testimony by showing all of the evidence around them that existed. he was a pebble in a mountain of evidence that was concerning about donald trump and his contacts with russia.
>> congressman eric swalwell, thank you so much. i want to do a little rapid fire like chris matthews. tell me something i don't know. here it is. rapid fire. walter, gene, barbara, clint. who won the day yesterday? walter. >> putin, putin, and putin. and it will be worse when donald trump embraces putin and kicked all our allies on the way to a summit that's ill prepared to embrace putin. man, that guy is a big victor in what happened yesterday. >> gene robinson. who won the day? >> putin won, democracy and theresa may lost, but that's a different story. >> barbara? >> peter strzok and congress. congress made the mistake of cross-examining asking one question too many, allowing him to say we will stop it, who won, the american voters.
>> americans lost across the board. that's the big conclusion in all this. i don't know how the united states benefits from anything that happened yesterday. >> david, let you end this with was it putin who won and what about in the united states? what about in that hearing room yesterday, who won the day? >> i saw only losers. i don't think even vladimir putin had a good day. this is a sad spectacle. snapshot of america in 2018 and not effective. >> eugene robinson, we'll be reading your column entitled trump administration on kidnapped children. someone should go to jail. where are they, by the way. thank you both. still ahead. thousands of protesters are gathering in london as president trump holds talks with theresa may. looking similar to the size of his inaugural crowd, with a baby
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xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. let me be clear unequivocally and under oath, not once in my 26 years of defending our nation did my personal opinions impact any official action i took. the suggestion that i in some dark chamber somewhere in the fbi would somehow cast aside all of these procedures, all of these safeguards and somehow be able to do this is astounding to me. it simply couldn't happen. the proposition that that is going on, that it might occur anywhere in the fbi, deeply corrodes what the fbi is in american society, the effectiveness of their mission and it is destructive. >> that's peter strzok's defense to a barrage of questions on
capitol hill. strzok's personal character and professional conduct was repeatedly called into question. joining us now, the attorney for mr. strzok. thanks for being on the show this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> is it okay to assume there were some behind the scenes negotiations about the parameters of the hearing or was he just thrown out there? >> well, i don't know if you call them negotiations. i sent a letter to the committee chair and to the fbi monday asking them to confer so we could understand what pete would and would not be allowed to answer. eventually i think the conversations happened, and the congressman knew exactly what questions pete would be able to answer and what questions the fbi would not allow him to answer and immediately went to the questions they knew for sure he would not be allowed to answer. then when he followed instructions of his employer, threatened him with contempt. >> i guess given the
conversations that happened before the hearing, do you think the republicans acted in good faith? >> of course not. i think the hearing revealed a couple of things, revealed pete for who he is, which is a deeply patriotic thoughtful person who is coming to terms with the fact that he wrote things being used to hurt an institution that he loves and a country that he loves. i think it revealed the republicans are not interested in finding out the truth. you could see that from questions that they asked that they knew he wouldn't be able to answer from their refusal to release the transcript of his 11 hour hearing two weeks ago and from the way, the extraordinary lengths they went to shut him up yesterday. i guess there's a rule or custom after five minutes, the witness is allowed to answer. they would end their questions with declarative statements and try to get the chairman to cut pete off so he couldn't get his
say out. that wasn't a question, that was a statement. why have a witness there. >> i'm confused. i saw matt gates trying to look like he is some attorney in a movie, like with the questions, thank you, sir. did you do, and then he wouldn't let -- i mean, were the questions really a performance or from your perspective, you're looking at these guys, did they seem prepared to get the answers they were getting? it seemed that maybe sometimes halfway through his answers, they didn't like the outcome. >> i don't think they did. i think they liked their ability in the past several months along with president trump with his tweets that pete's a traitor and sick loser, paint him as the boogie man as the center of some anti-trump cabal in the fbi. when they bring him before the american people and you realize it is not true, they furiously
try to gag him. >> all right. >> in terms of procedure, yesterday was a very confusing hearing and interesting to watch you behind peter strzok trying to talk to him and coach him through as his legal adviser. could you explain your role vis-a-vis fbi lawyers and what ground you cover versus what the fbi who also has a stake with their own lawyers in terms of this, can you flush that out in terms of how it plays out in the hearing? >> sure. the republicans after his closed interview went out and falsely said that pete on the advice of counsel refused to answer questions. that's not true. pete was instructed by the office of general counsel of the fbi that he could not answer certain questions. i'm pete's personal lawyer. i never told him not to answer a single question. the fbi has a policy which is long-standing which everybody knows that you're not supposed to talk about on-going
investigations. the russia collusion investigation is on-going. that's why they have special counsel. republicans know that. then there are conspiracy theories, fanned by the president and sean hannity and they ask these questions that they know the special counsel, fbi can't answer because the investigation is on-going, an act like it is a proven fact. >> thank you very much. i wonder if sean hannity will go on the air tonight and say republicans did a great job and won. in terms of overall, donny, this is right up your alley, watching that, do you feel that the republicans come out as winners in this conversation that you would call it on capitol hill? >> here's the sad truth. if you're a republican watching, yes. >> really? >> i just -- we're at the point
now, whether you start with trump's 40% base, this is the sad place, we're all -- i don't think anybody i get in debates about, we all get into heated debates about, i don't think if i ran into them, said you looked pathetic out there yesterday, i don't think one person would say we were looking silly. and that's where we are. >> the first time the american people got a chance to see, hear, get to know peter strzok who has been this villain. >> yes. but once again, a logical thinking person, just being a realist here, in your mind think about people that you kind of get into quagmires with about this. i do not think unfortunately sadly that they would look at it any other way than foolish pathetic -- >> i disagree. >> i think we're so entrenched now. it would be interesting to take a poll and see if there's one
move one way or the other of perception. >> one of the biggest tell tales, if you assume some independent minded voters watch fox news, that fox news made the judgment they needed to cut away because it was getting too hot and heavy. >> did they cut away from that? hide it a little better. cover the news. >> heidi is right. speaking as a former republican, if you're going to be cynical, you shouldn't be stupid. that was the basic mistake those congressman -- you shouldn't be malicious either. there are a great many people who aren't simply sean hannity, dumb idea logs that would say peter strzok guy, who i heard terrible things about. here's a guy that's passionate, eloquent, cool under fire, and
having his name dragged through the mud by a bunch of clowns. he is standing his ground against a collection of bullies. i think those are marginal voters, people on the edges, on the margins that decide elections. if they watched that testimony, they would have said i'm thinking about this agent in a whole new way. >> i'm stuck on fox. fox broke away from news that was happening. >> later in the day. >> i don't get it. >> can we reiterate, gowdy's hair. is this a new republican thing to have goofy hair? >> it's okay. good-bye. still ahead on the foreign trip, president trump lashed out at nato, undercut the british prime minister, and criticized the mayor of london. what will happen when he meets the queen? nothing could go wrong. we'll be right back.
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you have a mayor who's done a terrible job in london, done a terrible job. take a look at the terrorism taking place, look at what's going on in london, i think he's done a terrible job. i think he's not been hospitable to a government that's a very important government, now, he might not like the current president, but again, it's for me, i represent the united states. >> joining us live from london, former adviser to theresa may tom swarbik. and bill neely. we'll start with you, bill. at the heart of today's protests, what's the atmosphere like? >> good morning, mika. the atmosphere is noisy but good humored. the protests are about a half mile from here. they're expecting up to a quarter million people but we don't know how many will turn
up. really, the protests in british politics are all about that interview and this, britain's most widely read newspaper, may has wrecked brexit. not donald trump's exact words but that's the spirit. the u.s. trade deal is off. this is causing a great deal of anger here because donald trump did a number of things. he also suggested an alternative prime minister, boris johnson, the former foreign secretary who just walked away from theresa may's government. donald trump said he would make a great prime minister. this is the equivalent of the invited guest coming in, remember this interview was published as he was having dinner in his honor with theresa may, this is the invited guest coming in, kicking over the table, insulting the host. politically theresa may is on her knees.
three ministers walked away from her government. donald trump has just walked over, given her a kick. actually, if this isn't interfering with domestic politics of a close ally, i don't know what is. in the last half an hour, donald trump has been speaking about his relationship with theresa may and with the uk. he says it is very, very strong. he was asked if he regrets those comments about brexit, about theresa may, and he simply shook his head and rolled his eyes. officially, the british government is saying no, it is not rude at all. we've got a terrific relationship. it is the equivalent of the brits saying keep calm and carry on. but within the next hour there will be a news conference, theresa may and donald trump side by side. it will be very interesting to see what that piece of political theater brings. mika? >> bill, thank you very much. yeah, we have a terrific relationship, patty kay, like in the south when they say bless
your heart. yeah. they don't mean it. your thoughts. >> i'm struggling to believe the comments coming out of both sides this morning. everything is better than it's been before in the face of the sun interview. i am getting e-mails saying this is the moment we have re-enactment of love actually, the press conference and prime minister goes in and says this is a dprgreat country and you ct treatise like this. any chance theresa may will show resistance to donald trump along those lines? >> good morning. i don't think we get a love actually moment at the press conference, but it is an incredibly difficult situation for the prime minister to navigate. i don't think this could have gotten off to a worse start if he had shoved her down the steps
of the palace last night. this is the worst possible start. the brexit negotiations are in an incredibly sensitive moment for the prime minister. to have the president of the united states lob a grenade and leave them to pick up the pieces is unwelcome. i saw what the white house said about a good relationship between the prime minister and president. i believe that. everything i have seen, they have a strong relationship. he has love for united kingdom. i believe him when he says he likes this nation, appreciates the history, appreciates the military role we played together as allies, but it is a funny way of saying it, given the interview in the sun this morning. >> david? >> i wanted to ask whether there's any possibility of blow back because of british resentment of trump, trump's interference, intervention in
british politics. doesn't appear he is a widely liked person in britain. is there a way this ends up reshaping the debate because of british anger at trump? >> i think that's a very good t? >> i think that's a very good point. i was taking calls from very, very angry brits who said it's all very well for the president to get involved. it is literally his business when it comes to a trade deal. it's the way he's gone about it that has anchored a lot of people. i think there's plenty of people who look at the situation theresa may is having to deal with. bearing in mind today is the second anniversary of her becoming prime minister. so happy anniversary. the politics domestically are very difficult. you've seen the protesters taking place in london right now, there is a lot of acre from british people towards the way in which the president behaves generally and specifically on
this trip with the comments he's made. >> they're making themselves clear. former adviser to theresa may, tom swarbrick, thank you so much. still to come this morning, the chairman of the house freedom congress, congressman mark meadows is standing by. he'll weigh in on the spectacle of a hearing we just saw on capitol hill all day yesterday, nine hours, including one of his colleagues bringing up the witness' wife. that's ahead on "morning joe."
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standing with free nations for great causes for liberal values and democratic countries against au autocrats, conspiracy theorists and big the yots. what we're seeing in terms of what's happening in europe and in terms of what we saw in that committee is the slow corrosion/dissolution/ eradication of the things that created the american century. standing for free values for rashlty and for decency against their enemies. we have a president who is more clearly on the side of the enemies than he is on the sides of the friends and that's worth thinking about a hundred years after world war i. >> caddie, you're staying with us so i want to talk to you about what america looks like from around the world. what exactly is the example or the impact that president trump
has made on the world stage? we'll get to that. brett, thank you. still ahead, does being a dentist make you an expert at body language? we have that moment and much more from house republicans pointed attacks on embattled fbi agent peter strzock yesterday. plus, president trump and prime minister theresa may are expected to hold a joint news conference in just a little bit. we'll have the latest on the president's uk trip. we'll carry that news conference live, for sure. (♪) i'm a four-year-old ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff. still won't eat my broccoli, though. and if you don't have the right overage, you could be paying for that pricey love band yourself. so get an allstate agent, and be better protected from mayhem. like me. can a ring bearer get a snack around here? it's a high-tech revolution in sleep.
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>> and i didn't ask you to read your own words. march 4, 2016. >> you want me to read this? >> yes, please. >> omg, he's an idiot. >> august 18, 2016. and i'll preface this by saying for context, miss page said not ever going to become president, right? right? >> no, no, he's not. we'll stop it. if you want to represent what you said accurately, i'm happy to answer that question, but i don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. >> i don't give a damn what you appreciate, agent strzock. >> and i've talked to fbi agents around the country. you've embarrassed them. you've embarrassed yourself. and i can't help but wonder when i see you looking there with a smirk, how many times did you look so innocent into your wife's eye and lie to her about lisa page -- oh, mr. chairman, that's outrageous. >> the suggestion that i in some dark chamber somewhere in the fbi would somehow cast aside all of these procedures, all of these safeguards and somehow be able to do this is astound to go me. it's simply couldn't happen.
and the proposition that that is going on, that it might occur anywhere in the fbi deeply corrodes what the fbi is in american society, the effectiveness of their mission and it is deeply destructive. >> strzock struck back. and it went on like that for over nine hours. it was an absolute spectacle, a circus on capitol hill as two republican-led committees did not get what they want as they grilled fbi agent peter strzock over text messages that he sent during the presidential campaign. he defended himself. he also defended the integrity of the fbi against accusations of some sort of deep state conspiracy within the justice department. it was absolutely incredible. we're going to dig into that straight ahead. it's friday, july 13th. joe has the morning off. with us, we have nbc news national political reporter heidi prisbella. and as you see, donnie is here.
columnist for the "new york times," fred stevens. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. former justice department spokesman now nbc spokesman justice and security analyst, matt miller. b caddie kay. former chief of the staff at the cia and defense of defense, jeremy bash. testifying on capitol hill yesterday, he gave over nine hours of testimony, grilled, again and again and again about the text messages that got him removed from special counsel robert mueller's investigation. and written up in an inspector general's report. from the very outset, committee republicans threatened him with contempt for not providing more details about the investigation of trump's campaign suspected ties to russia. >> between july 31st and august 8th, how many interviews did you conduct related to the alleged
collusion between russia and the trump campaign? >> congressman, as you know, counsel for the fbi, based on the special counsel's equities, has instructed me not to answer questions about the ongoing investigation -- >> i'm asking for a number -- >> into russian attempts to -- >> agent strzock. >> i will not, based on direction of the fbi to me, based on that, i will not answer that question. because it goes to matters which are related to the ongoing investigations being undertaking by the special counsel's office. >> mr. strzock, you have not stated a valid legal basis for not respond to go a question directed to you by the member of the united states house of representatives. i am specifically directing you to answer the question in response to our subpoena, notwithstanding your objection. >> point of order, will mr. chairman. >> mr. strzock, please be
advised that you can either comply with the committee's instruction or failure to do to will face you criminal point of liability. do you understand that? >> point of order, mr. chairman. >> the question is directed to the witness. >> and i have a point of order before he answers the question. >> the point of order is not well taken -- >> you don't know what it is. you can't say it's not well taken. >> the witness will answer the question. >> mr. chairman, i raise my point of order and i insist on it. >> what is the point of order? >> the united states attorney's manual instructs department personnel not to respond to questions about the existence of an ongoing investigation or comment on its nature or progress. pursuant to fbi policy, which is necessary so as not to allow us to subvert an ongoing criminal investigation. he is right. >> was it wasn't the discovery of your texts, mr. strzock.
it was activitiance of your bias -- >> i'm stating to you, it was not my understanding that it was done based on any bias. it was done for its appear kwans. i don't appreciate what was originally said being changed. >> i don't give a damn what you appreciate, mr. strzock. i don't appreciate having an fbi agent with an animus working on two major investigations n during 2016. >> i think it's important when you look at those texts that you understand the context in which they were made and the things going on across america. in terms of the texts that we will stop it, you need to understand that that was written late at night off-the-cuff and it was in response to a series of events that included then candidate trump insulting the immigrant family of a fallen war hero. and my presumption based on that horrible, disgusting behavior that the american population would not elect somebody
demonstrating that behavior to be president of the united states. it was in no way unequivocally any suggestion that me, the fbi, would take any action whatsoever to improperly impact the electoral process for any candidate. so i take great offense and i take great disagreement to your assertion of what that was or wasn't. as to the hundred million to one, that was clearly a statement made in jest and using hyperbole. i of course recognized that millions of americans were likely to vote for candidate trump. i acknowledge that is absolutely their right. that is what makes our democracy the vibrant process that it is. but to suggest somehow we can parse the words of textual shorthand like they're a contract for a car is not consistent of my or most people's use of text messaging. i can assure you, mr. chairman, at no time in any of these texts did any of those personal beliefs ever enter into the realm of any action i took.
furthermore, this isn't just me sitting here telling you you don't have to take my word for it. at every step, at every investigative decision, there were multiple layers of people above me, the assistant director, executive assistant director, director of the fbi and multiple layers of people below. pe section chiefs, supervisors, unit chiefs, case analysts and analysts, all of whom were involved in all of these decisions. they would not tolerate any improper behavior in me any more than i would tolerate it in them. that is who er at the fbi. and the suggestion that i or some dark chamber at the fbi would somehow cast aside all of these procedures and somehow be able to do this is astounding to me. it simply couldn't happen. and the.proposition that that is going on, that it might occur anywhere in the fbi deeply corrodes what the fbi is in american society, the effectiveness of their mission and it is deeply destructive. >> matt miller, jeremy bash, so we had this patriot articulating
beautifully what was driving him throughout this process. and the mistakes he made throughout the way. and then the republicans at times, it was a circus. you had a dentist struggling to find words saying that he was reading his body language. you had little matt gates trying to play an attorney doing some sort of legal rundown and stumbling through that. jeremy, i'll start with you and matt, follow up. what struck you about strzock's testimony? >> i think he did a good time explaining the mission of the federal bureau of investigation. i think reasonable minds can differ as to whether his text messages demonstrated an impermissible bias. here are the facts. bob mueller removed him from the investigation more than a year ago. he is not involved in the investigation, has not been for a very long time. and nothing that happened yesterday actually erases the fact that the mueller investigation has resulted in five criminal convictions, 20
indictments, people sitting in jail or facing jail at this hour because of concerns over their close connection to the russian federation and them not representing the truth when asked about it by the fbi. and so nothing that happened yesterday in this kind of epic nonsense of a partisan circus erases the fact that bob mueller is conducting a principled, professional investigation. >> matt. >> you know, i think the behavior of the members of that committee was an absolute disgrace yesterday. this is from a couple of committees who are not known for being packed with statesmen. and i think that last clip that you showed from peter strzock is a moment that will go down in history. when someone who has seen his name dragged through the mud came up and explained to the committee and to the american people just what was happening and just what the effect was on trust in the fbi and the fbi's ability to do its mission. i agree with jeremy, there are
legitimate questions about agent strzock's texts and what he said in those texts. but the problem with what members of congress were doing, they were never able to connect his beliefs about donald trump with his actions, with what he did as an fbi agent. and there is a logical fallacy at the heart of this conspiracy theory. and that is, as he pointed out in his testimony, he was one of the few people that knew in the fall of 2016 that donald trump's campaign was under investigation for collusion with the russian government. he could have, one with one phone call to any reporter in america probably ended donald trump's campaign and ensured that he wasn't elected president and didn't do that. it's hard to make a case that he was part of a conspiracy to prevent donald trump from becoming president when he didn't take advantage of that tunt. still ahead, the eggo has landed. that's one paper's take in great britain as president trump lands in the uk and slams the host leader in the process. how will she respond?
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i actually told theresa may how to do it, but she didn't listen to me. what did she say? >> she didn't listen. i told her how to do it. that will be up to her to say. but i told her how to do it. she wanted to go a different route. >> so you would be prepared to walk away if they didn't give you the right terms? >> oh, absolutely. i think what's going on is very unfortunate. i did give teresa, who i like, my views on what she should do and how she should negotiate. and she didn't follow those views. i would actually say very probably went the opposite way. i think the deal that she's striking is not what the people voted on. it's a much different deal than the people voted on.
it was not the deal that was in the referendum. they have a lot of resignations. so a lot of people don't like it. but it will definitely affect trade with the united states. unfortunately in a negative way. if they do a deal like that, it will most likely -- because we'll be dealing with the european union instead of dealing with the uk. so it will probably kill the deal with -- if they do that, their trade deal with the u.s. will probably not be made. no, if they do that with, i would say that that would probably end a major trade relationship with the united states. >> those are portions of president trump's interview with "the sun" criticizing theresa may's brexit strategy, among other things. the two leaders were set to answer questions side by side in just a little while. we will do to that live.
a lot happened here symbolically, caddie kay, including who the president chose to go visit first. >> yes. i mean, the fact that he had this very glamorous dinner last night that was laid on for him outside london and this was the offering that theresa may gave him. you can see the pictures there. it was magical, the lighting was beautiful, everyone looked incredible. and it was halfway through this dinner with theresa may and 150 british business leaders that we got news of this interview. you can't imagine how the rest of that dinner turned out. this is worse than just going to dinner, however, and insulting your host while you're there. theresa may's government, her leadership hang leadership hangs in the balance this week and donald trump has just taken a bulldozer and driven straight through that plan. at the moment, they're having this meeting at her country residence. he was just asked whether he regretted that interview in "the
sun" newspaper. and he just looked away apparently rather awkwardly. we understand they're going to give a press conference and he will try to reframe some of those remarks. but make no mistake, he could not have said something more damaging to theresa may, the british prime minister, at a more sensitive moment. >> all right. david ignatius, your thoughts? >> well, like caddie, i think this is just remarkably undiplomatic diplomacy. one of the british papers, i think it was "the daily mirror" headlined the ego has landed when he got to britain. you see all this entirely in terms of his own negotiating skill. that was the part of the interview i found most amazing. i wouldn't have done it that way. i tried to tell her how to do it. it was almost as if he was going to punish her for not following her tutelage and eager that he knows how to negotiate and other
people don't. it illustrates what an isolated position the united states has these days. >> yeah. >> estranged from the european union, allies, estranged from great brit.an, traditionally our closest ally. the president arrives with a dagger. he stabbed theresa may not in the back, but on the front on arrival. it's extraordinary. whether her government can survive, as caddie suggested, is a real question. coming up on "morning joe," president trump had a lot to say about british prime minister theresa may in an interview with the british press. but when asked about it earlier this morning, kind of clammed up, didn't really go there. we'll see if that changes when he fields more questions from the press just ahead. we'll carry that live. "morning joe" is coming right back.
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i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. by the way, i'm a dentist and i read body language very,
very well. i watched your comments with mr. goudy. you got very angry in regard to the gold star father. that shows me it's innately a part of you and a bias. >> i don't know if you're experiencing this is like being at the dentist, but i would tell you, sir, what you see in my response -- what you see in my response is a genuine passion for the united states of america. >> what this man has done -- >> the gentleman from texas will suspend for a moment. >> there is the disgrace. and it won't be recaptured anytime soon because of the damage you've done to the justice system. and i've talked to fbi agents around the country. you've embarrassed them. you've embarrassed yourself. and i can't help but wonder when i see you looking there with a little smirk how many times did you look so innocent into your wife's eye and lie to her about lisa -- >> mr. chairman, this is outrageous. >> the inability of a witness is
always an issue -- >> mr. chair, please, you're -- >> mr. chairman, this is intolerable harassment of the witness. >> you need your medication. >> he's just judging. it never works. >> so a couple of moments there from yesterday's contentious house hearing with fbi agent peter strzock. joining us now, a member of the house oversight and government reform committee, democratic congressman roger morphie of illinois and also with us republican congressman mark meadows. thank you very much for both of you. a nice moment here. >> graed great to be with you. now you guys are working stoeg on immigration. by the way, we are off delay is no cursing, heidi. we're awaiting the news conference in london, donald
trump and theresa may will be hold ago joint news conference. when that happens, we may interrupt this conversation and go to it live. but we will continue it. let's start by talking about what happened yesterday in this hearing. mark meadows, i think i want to ask you, first of all, after hearing prosecute peter strzock in his own words, do you think that peter strzok is a patriot who loves this country? >> really, it's not about whether he's a patriot or not. obviously he's served for a long time in the fbi. i think the question yesterday is do you think anybody that watched that can come away with two conclusions. one, it was not congress at its finest, but the other part of that is there are certain, with the text messages and the bias that it would demonstrate, you wouldn't want him on a jury trying to mete out where justice is in a nonpartisan unbias way. so when you look at that, we've
seen so many different documents, some of the questions he didn't answer yesterday, that would give us really a pause and say, you know, he should have recused himself, should have stepped back from that, mika. >> so, raja, i'll let you chime in here. a lot of the questions he was asked were questions that his lawyers and the team's preparing for the hearings explained to the republican congressman he could not answer them. because they were asking questions about a classified investigation. it would be releasing classified information. so while representative meadows makes a good point, he didn't answer some questions, he's setting it up to make it believe that he was refusing to answer questions when in reality wasn't he being asked questions he was literally legally incapable of answering and they knew that. >> that's correct. he was actually, in some cases, instructed by the fbi's general
counsel not to answer certain questions. and in one memorable moment from the start of the hearing, he basically asked whether he could confer with his fbi's general counsel and chairman goodlot said no. and that made no sense because he's still an fbi employee and he has the right to confer with the fbi's general counsel, especially with regard to questions about classified information and such. >> and mika, i want to make sure we're talking about the facts here, though. there was nothing about classified information on why he didn't answer that. if it had been, we would have gone into a chas phied setting. it was all unclassified. yet what we found was the fbi was instructing a very broad don't answer anything that has anything to do with perhaps the investigation leading up to the election. and that was overly broad and, in fact, you found during that hearing where they started to narrow that down. and so at times, i think it was
used more as an excuse than as a legitimate claim. >> but he should not be prevented from conferring with his counsel. >> no, i agree. he needs to have his counsel, mika. and i'm not suggesting at any time that you have counsel that you don't have that. but i'm saying that when you look at transparency, if you notice, when you watch the clip, i said we need to be fully transparent when it helps one side or the other. it's critical for the american people to judge for themselves. so i know, you had so many people cutting him off, mark meadows, and i know you weren't completely excited about everything that have happened in there. >> right. >> there were congressmen attacking him personally to the point where people were practically breaking out in fights. >> right. >> i thought that gomerik question was completely unacceptable. and then they were analyzing his body language. isn't that a sign that you're not getting anything that is useful to your perspective when
you start going after the person's wife and their body language? >> yeah. >> it seems to me that peter strzok, when he was allowed to speak, seemed like a patriot who loved america. made a few mistakes. >> yeah. i want to make sure i allow you to ask the question fully. you're right. when you start to look at certain snippets or sound bites, there's enough information, enough foundational information that would call into question some of the judgments that were made..for me, i believe tone and tenor is key. you look at those things, stick to the facts, try to make sure that what you do is actually -- have a real debate. and i can have that with my good friend raj here. and maybe i ought to not say that. he's a progressive, i hate him. that way he comes back. but we actually work well together and that's what we need to do. >> i think the right honorable gentleman from north carolina
has a point. the one thing i was going to say, mika, is i thought he came across as rather poised and confident. he made an impassioned statement at one point talking about, you know, acknowledging, you know, he should -- he had regret about the text messages, they were inappropriate, they were unprofessional, in my opinion, for a government business phone. but, on the other hand, he has been one of the top counterintelligence officials at the fbi for decades. and there was no evidence as concluded by the ig's report that any of those views expressed in those text messages translated into biassed actions. and that's always the real question here. >> well, but to be clear -- but to be clear -- >> therefore, i think he came across rather well. >> to be clear, that ig's report said that bias didn't affect the decision only because there was a whole lot of other people in the decision. it was very damning on peter
strzok. >> i actually thought he did really well when he was allowed to speak and when he tried to explain his position on everything. looked a lot worse on paper. and i think it was painful for the republicans, actually, who were trying to sort of pin him down on something. it just kind of was a cringe. but we're here for bipartisan reasons. heidi has the questions. speaking of working well together, how are we doing on immigration? are you both satisfied with the efforts being made by the trump administration to reunite the families at the border? >> i'm not satisfied, but that being said, i am glad that congressman meadows is working with elijah cummings, my ranking member on the oversight committee to try to figure out how do we reunite parents and children in that proper way. a quick background here, there are about a hundred children
between the ages of zero and five who have not been reunited with their children as of the start of this week, but half of them did get reunited. 24 of them are not reunited because, quite frankly, we don't know where their parents are. they were deported. we don't know how to get them back with their children. the problem here is that there are about 2,000 children above the age of 6 to the age of 17 or 18 and the reuniting process has not started with them. and if the same problems afflict that group that afflicted these first hundred between the ages of zero and five, then there's going to away significant number of people who aren't going to to be with their parents. that's a big problem. >> how about you, cobman meadows, how do you think we're doing given that now we have reports of parents being deported without their children? i'm assuming that was not intentional. >> well, some of those were actually -- i've talked to secretary nielson.
i talked to the attorney general on this particular item as rag mentioned. we've been working with elijah cummings to get additional information. for me, it should be a bipartisan thing. i can tell you some of the detailed information that i've gotten from the administration is really more troubling than the fact that you have, perhaps, a policy that has separated them. it's the fact that some of these people that have brought kids across don't want the kids back and that, to me, is offensive when i see that. so what we've got to do is make sure that we keep them together. i believe we're making good progress as raj has mentioned. what we've done is reunited everyone under five years of age at this point. we also have secretary nielson who has gone to other countries and said listen, if you're claiming asylum, let us help you figure out how to legitimately do that instead of coming here illegally and creating a situation that perhaps is
inspected. >> can i just make one small point, which is i didn't say that everyone beneath the age of 5 had been reunited. 24 out of the hundred have not been reunited because we can't find those parents. >> but those are over 5 years of age. >> no, under five. >> i'll be glad to send that to you, mika. listen, every day we're focused on this. we're focused on it in a bipartisan manner. we're going to get to that point where actually not only do we have good policy, but i think we have to fix it laevenively. >> i agree with mark 100% of this. we have to fix this legislatively. the biggest problem is that that executive order basically requires that military bases hold internment camps where people could be kept potentially indefinitely. that's wrong for two reasons. one, the military should not be involved with immigration. two, you can't have internment
camps. we've made that mistake in the past. we can't do that again. >> you both have strong opinions. you both don't completely agree. but i really appreciate your coming on the show and searching throughout the entire interview for ways in which you can agree and looking for those. and we would love to have you back. mark meadows and raj christian amortie. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> come back. we're minutes away from a joint news conference with president trump and prime minister may. the pair have held several hours worth of meetings this morning and it all comes with that explosive interview with "the sun" as a back drop. joining us now from london, nbc news white house correspondent jeff bennet. also in london in the heart of the protest, nbc news chief koern correspondent richard engle.
and here we say on set, jillian tet and caddie kay is still with us, as well. jeff, we'll start with you. any sense of how the prime minister might address the president's interview with "the sun"? >> good morning, mika. 10 downing street says we should expect the prime minister to make her views known on this during this press conference. we'll be watching for all of that. given the president's incendiary comments, i think it's worth pointing out that he foreshadowed that this might happen. before he even left for his european trip, he slammed may's brexit strategy. then he suggested his meeting with vladimir putin, the u.s.'s geopolitical en my might be easier than meeting with theresa may. while it's not uncommon for presidents to grant interviews to foreign press, it is highly unusual for a president to waste such an interview with the kind
of diplomatic grenades that president trump did, slamming her brexit strategy, suggesting her rival would make a great prime minister, the president saying immigration has changed the culture of europe. and taking the page out of the playbook of white nationalism. if there was any question as to why this trip had been delayed many times quarterba, we now no. >> thank you very much. let's go to richard engle standing amid the protesters. what are you hearing, richard? >> so we are in central london. it started out this morning with thousands of people. now i think you can say there are probably tens of thousands and more are continue to go come here. that is a shout we've been hearing all day long. not sure if you can make it out. it says say it loud, say it clear, donald trump is not welcome here. and there are many causes
represented. there are many different kinds of people here. old, young, ethnically diverse, but that is the unifying message that donald trump is not welcome here. also, they are increasingly accusing president trump of intervening in british politics. and they are pointing that at that awkward moment this story breaks in which president trump insults her suggests her rival would be better suited to be the prime minister of this country. they say it's rude. they say it's arrogant. they say that is why they are on the streets of london and will continue to be here until this visit is over. >> wow. richard engle, thank you very much. jillian tett, the president says he's beloved in england. >> this is an extraordinary moment. and i imagine a lot of viewers will have seen the movie where you have billy bob thorton who plays the u.s. president and comes over and bullies the
british liter who is hugh grant. people used to think that was a fantasy or a bit of hollywood. many people think we're seeing that. the question now is theresa may going to be a hugh grant and to stand up and give a speech that basically fights back or is she just going to try and be diplomatic and smooth the whole thing over? there is a lot at stake in the uk right now, not just about special relationship and the security issues, but above all else, about the issue of trade. >> let's go to caddie kay. caddie, i asked t you to think about some of the things you might have heard around the world. i know you travel a lot and you have a lot of international contacts. it's not just what's happening right now with theresa may, although it is fascinating what is happening there with the dynamics especially in the lead up to this press conference that we are awaiting. but president trump seems to have an idea that he's
widely popular, especially after the g7 summit. how is america viewed with president trump as president? >> you don't have to look very far to see the president's perception of how he's seen is not in line with reality. there was an opinion poll that came out in the uk in the last couple of weeks that showed that 67% of of brits think president trump is either a poor or terrible president. that is higher than any other president has suffered in terms of disapproval amongst the british public, higher than even george bush surrounding the invasion of the iraq war. so that just isn't true. now, whether he thinks that going to europe and publicly trashing theresa may ornateo or european allies somehow plays well with his base, it's possible that's the rationale that he's using, his base feels the world has given america a bad deal, that is why they want their president to stand up for the world. he keeps talking about an
america that won't apologize and somehow he's managing to think there is some political gain out of this. but the long-term damage that he's doing to these relationships is enormous. it's a consequence of talking about the prime minister in this way on the front pages of britain's biggest selling newspaper. clint, i think it's the trump baby balloon. i think -- >> he's very thin skinned. >> i think the trump baby balloon has little hands hold ago cell phone and he's wearing a diaper and it has his mouth open. and it's flying -- right now, i guess, is it down? what are they doing? this is this balloon that has been loi allowed to fly. and there was an issue about whether or not this will be allowed. i'm sure trump is very angry that the baby balloon of him with the tiny hands holding the cell phone was allowed to fly above protesters as in mockery
of the president of the united states. this is what england thinks the president of the united states looks like. symbolically. many might agree with that. who knows. theresa may could be emboldened by the fact that the leader of france, emmanuel macron, just moments after his press conference yesterday completely undermined the president and said to the public that the president has said something that is not true, that did not happen. he is wrong. and the french president just pushed back in realtime and said, no. theresa may may feel differently about just letting things wash over as leader after leader realizes this guy is not so easy to push -- he is pretty easy, actually, to refute. we found actually during his press conference, it was easy to go live and fact check him in
realtime. there's so many lies. why continue to let him go on.? >> he will continue to advance until you push back on him. i thought it was important that macron did that. otherwise, president trump is setting the agenda of falt falsehoods consistently. this is a pattern. if you look back, two weeks ago gop senators in russia, then you look forward, we have ministers leaving the cabinet. now we have nato problems. now trump st in the uk bashing may and who is there? oh, maybe steve bannon has a word in there. what happens next week? we have a russia visit. these things are all in a strategic alignment in a series of narratives that are matching up into essentially a new alliance which is to me president trump has positioned himself as an outlier pulling this out of these democratic alliances that we've had for decades and now positioning us more either on our own or more with authoritarians. >> how much does this actually
hurt theresa may? you see the protesters, the baby balloon. this is theresa may's supporters. >> theresa may has had a terrible month or year because the british conservative party is tearing itself apart. they put out a blue paper to try and deal with brexit this week that doesn't answer most of the important questions at all. this is more irritant. it's worth pointing out about the balloon, though, that before britain does have a long tradition of irreverent political humor. and something that looks incredibly insulting in america which has made trump very angry because he is thin-skinned, it's also part of that tradition of laughing more at politics and institutions within the uk context. >> and parliament, everyone let's themselves, let's others know what they think. >> it is a much more -- >> duke it out. >> exactly, duke it out. but i'd like to go back to the
issue of putin again. that is a big issue hanging over this entire visit. and the fact that trump is remaking or smashing up so much of the post war order. of course, britain is a place where there's a lot of speculation that putin and russia were involved medaling in the brexit referendum, the social media contains there. there's a lot of speculation there's a strategy going on right now to try and shake up the post war alliance to their benefit. that's one of the things that is deeply concerning the british government is certainly going to be one of the issues that the british government, theresa may, wants to talk to trump about. and it will be interesting to see what the president has to say ahead of his own meeting with president putin. >> and caddie kay, what is the gain for theresa may to cozy up to donald trump and do give him a pass and not call him out? >> yeah. it was interesting that we heard theresa may's former adviser say don't expect that love actually moment.
there was be no calling out of the american president for trashing the special relationship in this way. she is somebody who is ferociously diplomatic. she has spent the last two years trying to balance the two sides of a very difficult debate. it's in her nature not to come out forcefully on one side or the other. and i just think she will decide that in the end the course of diplomacy is better than the momentary satisfaction of taking on donald trump sternly. she's going to have to address those "sun" comments because they're going to be raised in the course of this press conference and she's going to have to push back against them. she's already made it clear she wants this trade relationship with the united states. >> i was going to tell you from knowing him, let's say they're, what, talking right now together? >> yeah. >> okay. i can promise you he's talking about the baby balloon. and i know when we went to lunch
at the white house, the week after he announced the muslim ban and we really wanted to try and urge him to, perhaps, try a different route here on this issue because it was so disheartening to me and joe. and he obsessed over the entire lunch about his crowd size and brought us into the west wing and on the wall of the west wing where he was supposed to have poignant moments with the president and the first lady and family and members of our military and veterans who have these great photos that they'll switch out every few weeks, every single picture was a different angle of the crowd size and he walked us through each one, spent like 40 minutes defending his crowd size. i can tell you, as much as theresa may may want to confront him about "the sun" interview,
he's talking about the balloon, the big round balloon with the tiny hands, the baby holding the cell phone which is supposed to be a baby trump tweeting all the time, that's what he cares about. jeff, do you want to jump in? >> i just wanted to jump into your amen corner on that one. to your point, donald trump knows that balloon exists, but this trip was core graphed that he will not have seen it. he's been helicoptering all around. in fact, this morning, theresa may and the president went to visit a military demonstration at stonehurst. the reason that was done is we know the president is enamored with these big military displays. that was one way of the brits trying to appeal to this president. i wanted to add that point on to
what you're saying. >> keep that picture up. >> i was just going to jump in and say i have also been in the oval office with president trump. one of the first things he told us when we went in to interview him didn't. and this question of power, this question of status, this question of winning, absolutely underscores what he's doing, and yes, the brits have a lot of nice historical pageantry they can pull out and show the president today. but there's the sense on the part of the president that, you know, america's won and america's going to make europe bend to his rules as the victor rather than anything else. >> how will this play next week? you were talking about president trump going in a unmonitored one on one conversation with putin, who is the master of setting conditions around ingratiating people and bringing them to his position. it is a person who is easily manipula manipulated. >> i'd like to keep our guest up on the top right and the balloon
can watch the press conference. it's a perfect shot of that video. right now, protesters. but donald trump won't see them because he's designed his trip so he doesn't see the balloon with the cell phone. the baby balloon with the cell phone. i think it's interested in watching so we'll have that up. we're told we're about a minute away from british prime minister theresa may and president trump's joint news conference. this comes after a nato summit unlike any other. where the president -- i don't know, it's like a path of destruction in his wake among our allies and even those that we're trying to work with in some way. >> if this was a hollywood movie frankly almost nobody would believe the script, not least with the balloon. i think many brits right now will be rather hoping that theresa may does discover her inner hugh grant and comes out fighting. if he doesn't, that's going to
create more political challenges for her at home. what's going to happen in the next sort of half hour in this press conference is perhaps going to be one of most intriguing pieces of transatlantic political theater we have seen in public for a very long time. with or without that balloon. one of the most intriguing pieces of transatlantic conversation that we might see, until of course, until the meeting with vladimir putin. of course we will not be seeing some of that meeting because the president has required that he meet with vladimir putin one on one and that there are only translators in the room, no note takers, no notes, no historic record. and in the lead-up to that meeting with putin, as you see the president and terraheresa m are approaching the podium. we will be taking this press conference live. in the lead-up to that meeting, the president at the nato summit put on a performance that only putin could love. here is the president and here is theresa may.
>> good afternoon. and i'm pleased to welcome the president of the united states to checkers today on his first official visit to the united kingdom. no two countries do more together than ours to keep their people safe and prosperous. and we want to deepen that cooperation even further. to meet the shared challenges we face now and in the years ahead. this morning, president trump and i visited sandhurst, where we saw a demonstration of joint working between british and american special forces. just one example of what is today the broadest, deepest and most advanced security cooperation of any two countries in the world. whether it is our pilots deterring the use of chemical weapons in syria or defeating daesh, our soldiers at the forefront of nato's presence in eastern europe, our navies in the pacific enforcing sanctions on north korea or our
unparalleled intelligence sharing partnership, thwarting attacks. our security cooperation is saving lives here in britain, in america and right across the world. that partnership is set to grow. with our armies intergrating to a level unmatched anywhere. and the uk set to spend $24 billion pounds on u.s. eequipment and support over the next decade. today we've discussed how we can deepen our work together to respond to maligned state activity, terrorism and serious crime. in particular on russia, i thanked president trump for his support in responding to the appalling use of a nerve agent in salisbury, after which he expelled 60 russian intelligence officers. i welcome his meeting with president putin in helsinki on monday. we agreed it is important to engage russia from a position of strength and unity and continue to deter and counter all efforts to undermine our democracies.
turning to our economic cooperation, with mutually investment between us, we want to go further. we agreed today as the uk leaves the european union, we will pursue an ambitious agreement. the agreement arrived last week provides the platform for an ambitious deal that works for both countries right a cross our economies. a deal that builds on the uk's independent trade policy. delivering a gold standard in cooperation. and as two of the world's most advanced economies, seizing the opportunity of new technology. all of this will further enhance our economic cooperation, creating new jobs and prosperity for our peoples for generations to come. the uk/u.s. relationship is also defined by the role we play on the world stage. doing this means making tough calls. and sometimes being prepared to say things that others might rather not here. from the outset, president trump has been clear about how he sees
the challenges we face. and on many we agree. for example, the need to deal with the long-standing nuclear threat of dprk, where the agreement in singapore has set in train the prospect of denuclearization to which the uk is proud to be contributing expertise. to address the destabilizing influence of iran in the middle east. where today we've discussed what more we can do. all the need for nato allies to increase their defense spending and capability on which we saw significant increases at yesterday's subtlmmit. this includes afghanistan where this week i announced a further uplift of 440 uk troops. ongoing commitment to a mission that began as nato's only use as article 5, acting in support of the u.s. finally, let me say this about the wider transatlantic relationship. it is all of our responsibility to ensure that transatlantic unity endures.
for it has been fundamental to the protection and projection of our interests and values for generations. with u.s. leadership at its foundation, its beating heart remains our democratic values and our commitment to justice. those values are something that we in the uk will always cherish as i know the u.s. will too. it is the strength of these values and the common interest they create that we see across the breadth of our societies in north america and europe. that's why i'm confident this alliance will continue to be the bedrock of our shared prosperity for years to come. mr. president. >> thank you very much. thank you. prime minister, thank you very much. and it is my true honor to join you at this remarkable setting. truly magnificent. as we celebrate the special relationship between our two countries on behalf of the american people, i want to thank you for your very gracious
hospitality. thank you very much. last night melania and i were delighted to join you and philip for dinner at the magnificent blenheim palace. it was a memorable evening we will not soon forget. it was really something very special. today, it's a true privilege to visit historic chequers. and to continue our conversation which has proceeded rapidly the last few days. gathering at this stunning retreat to strengthen a bond that is like no other. the relationship between our two nations is indispensable to the cause of liberty, justice and peace. the united kingdom and the united states are bound together by a common historic heritage, language and heroes. traditions of freedom, sovereignty and the true rule of
law were our shared gift to the world. they're now priceless inheritent to a civilization. we must never cease to be united in their defense and in their renewal. before our dinner last night, melania and i joined prime minister may, mr. may, and the duke and duchess of marlboro, for a tour of the winston churchill exhibit at bloenheim palace. it was right here from chequers that churchill. shed their blood alongside one another in defense of home and defense of freedom, and together we achieved a really special, magnificent victory, and it was total victory. prime minister may and i have
just come from a very productive nato summit. that was truly a productive summit. where my top priority was to get other members to pay their fair share and prime minister may was right with me. i want to thank you for the contribution to our common defense. the uk is one of the handful of nations, 5 out of 29. not good, but it's going to get better really fast. in addition to the united states meeting the 2% gdp minimum defense spending commitment, during the summit i made it clear all allies must meet their obligations. and to do so in a much more timely manner. in our meetings today, the prime minister and i discussed a range of shared