tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC July 14, 2018 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
the white house says it's still on. democrats will probably escalate this calls this weekend. we'll see if there's any republicans who join them, of course, john mccain earlier coming out with a statement saying the president should call it off if he's not ready to confront vladimir putin we'll see. if there are any surprise additions of thele toings calling for that. i'm going to say thank you to the roundtable. that is "hardball" for now. chris matthews will be back monday. bob mueller indicting russians for hacking for the first time, the biggest development in this probe since paul manafort's indictment. this is friday, july 13th, and the special counsel troeb that 2kr probe that donald trump has spent his entire presidency degrading. well, i can report for you tonight that today that probe has produced the most far-reaching and detailed indictment of russian election
meddling in american history. there are implications here for the u.s. relationship with russia, the security of the upcoming midterms and most importantly, implications for potential further charges, right here in the united states. now, tonight, on the beat, we have special coverage on all of this, including reaction from a former top aide to hillary clinton and a former roger stone association. but first, i bring you the facts tonight. today's indictment, not aimed at, say, a lawyer who did work for trump associates like some past indictments, it's not aimed at unknown political operatives like george papadopoulos and certainly not aimed at any one individual's allegedly nonpolitical crimes which is how some of trump's defenders tried to distance themselves from paul manafort. the who is quite clear and disturbing. mueller aiming at top russian military intelligence officers. the what is a conspiracy to interfere in the 2016 election. the charges are conspiracy to commit an offense against the u.s., identity theft and money
laundering, among others. so, that means that right now, we know more about bob mueller's strategy for pressing this case going forward than ever before. the political world talks a lot about collusion, as we've reported, though, the key word tonight is conspiracy. mueller stating the object of this conspiracy was to hack u.s. campaign officials, steal documents and then stage releases of the stolen documents to interfere with the 2016 election. how did they do it? i'm going to read to you know key allegations from this indictment. russian agents hacking over 300 e-mail accounts, stealing e-mails and other documents and that includes 2.5 gigabytes of data. it does not say they simply stole and released this material, but they released it in stages with specific strategies to impact the election. that's how this information was stolen and weaponized. and we have to also consider how everyone is looking at whether this would happen again. >> we need to work together to
hold the perpetrators accountable and we need to keep moving forward to preserve our values, protect against future interference and defend america. >> that means te fe s defending in the midterms. if watergate was a domestic burglary to win an election that brought down a presidency, today mueller is alleging a domestic burglary in cyberspaced launched by a nuclear-powered country. this is worse than watergate? that's a question you probably heard before. bob mueller is beginning to answer that tonight, and he's pointing out this operation was certainly bigger than weather gate, certainly lasted longer. now, whether it involves top american political officials remains an open question. so, consider all that and then add this. tonight is the first time the united states has charged russians for stealing information on american voters. that's a whole other piece of
this indictment, alleging they, the russians, were hacking a website of a state board of elections and stealing information not about 100 or 1,000 voters but half a million of them. names, addresses, parts of their social security number, dates of birth, i.d. numbers. what state did that happen in? what happened to that information? this indictment doesn't tell us that tonight, but half a million voters is a lot. it could have an impact on a state like, say, michigan, ch was decided by just 10,704 votes. indictment also raises new questions about this moment in the 2016 campaign. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> well, bob mueller puts that in this indictment and this may be one of the most disturbing things, because i can report to you for the first time tonight that it was the same day, july 27th, 2016, that trump said that
and the russians began, quote, for the first time hacking e-mails affiliated with the clinton campaign. we have a range of guests in our special coverage. so, we begin with bill crystal, editor at large of the weekly standard. john flannery, and here in new york. john, what speaks to you in this indictment? >> the thing that speaks to me is what i expect we'll see in the next indictment, the kind of one, two, three of the mueller investigation, which is pinning the tail on the donkey, being the orange man in the west wing. we have two critical dates. there are others here, but you may notice that on june 8th, these russians set up a special website, a facebook page and a twitter account all of which was to disperse all the e-mails they'd stolen from the dnc and the dccc. as of that date. the next day, they have a meeting in trump tower.
and it was published as a meeting that was going to give information to the trump campaign to go forward against hillary clinton. then we have, later in june, we have another request for information, because they were afraid that the bernie sanders people would go with hillary after the nomination battle in july. and so, about a month later, they had collected information and they did exactly that, they released it. and days after they released that information, the quote that you just put on the screen is the one that trump stated, which is, more. give us more and they did that evening. >> so, you're suggesting -- you're suggesting that this indictment tonight adds detail to the theory of the case that donald trump was not joking, was not being reckless, was not making a rhetorical point, but was actually publicly actively trying to conspire with a foreign power, is that what you are -- >> absolutely. he was arrogantly and
transparentally taking an overt act in this conspiracy with russia to get elected in exchange for whatever his deal was with putin that they'll probably confirm in a couple of days when they ask each other what to do behind closed doors. this has been a conspiracy, it's a collusion, and explains why trump gave the false statement about the meeting was on june 9th. it was about adoptions of russian children. >> and you're bearing down on something that bill kristol and i have discussed before, which is that donald trump is sophisticated about his defense here and, bill, john is quoting from page 13 of this indictment, which says on june 8th, these russians launched d.c. leaks and used it to release stolen e-mails and he has pointed to the fact it was the next day, you had the trump tower meeting and that donald trump, we now know, has been exposed for interfering in a defense to the trump tower meeting, which he did not attend. and there's never been, bill, a very good besign signign explay the president involved himself
in denying he only had second-hand information about, if he's innocent, bill. >> yeah, i think john could be right. the more modest version, at least, of this, mueller goes out of his way to put a couple of dates in this indictment, which he doesn't need. the july 27th date is put in. that doesn't add anything. it's not required that he show that, that he knows that, but he wants us maybe to go do some research and discover that trump said what he said on july 27th, which you played and mentioned. but think about, i think, for me, what's striking about that, why does -- you guys are prosecutors, i'm not, but why does he do that? i think he's signaling to people out there, we know everything. we have -- think of what he has to know, to be able to say that, he has to have access to communications, presuming among these russians and between these russians and people elsewhere, people running wikileaks and so forth, and also presumably communications between these russians and others perhaps in the united states. and i think if you're on the fence about whether to flip, if you're on the fence about
whether you think, gee, maybe i can get away with this, you look at this indictment, you think, you know what? maybe i better place a call here to the special prosecutor's office in the southern district in new york or someone in the justice department and say, you know, maybe i will come clean. for michael cohen, for paul mana fort, though he's already indicted, be you still in play as someone that could flip. for many others, this is a signal that mueller knows an awful lot and assuming there is some collusion with americans, which i think is pretty hard to doubt at this point, i think this is his way of signaling those americans, you know, let's play ball here. >> and the first -- >> let me go to evelyn and then back to you, john. >> sure. >> well, what strikes me, ari, is that there's no 400-pound guy in new jersey, there are 12 faces with names. and mueller actually lays out the organization, he says, these are the two guys in charge, here are the people that did x, y and z. most of them were actually taking information out and a
couple of them were then sending the information into the, you know, the twitter sphere and the other part of it, of course, the other indictments that we've already seen from him, those are the social media folks, the iri, the, what was it, the international research agency in st. petersburg, they took that data that was stolen. the picture is coming together very accurately. and the other thing, i think, i would absolutely agree with the point that it's demonstrating how good our intelligence is, because, you know, i've gotten in trouble coming on tv saying, i know, i know. what i meant was in my gut, in my gut, because i know we have good intelligence on russia, that what administration officials were saying was well informed. >> right. >> and this is proof. >> and john, i want to put up on the screen more of the important peenlss of this that mueller is pointing out on the american side. a person in regular contact with senior members of the campaign of donald trump. the russians had a request for stolen documents for a candidate for the u.s. congress, wow, and that russians were contacting
u.s. reporters with an offer to provide these stolen e-mails. to bill's point, shall we say, a logical, journalistic analyst, who has also worked in a white house, bill kristol, and your view as a prosecutor, both of you have know, and evelyn knows, he doesn't need to mention those things for these charges. what is he doing there with those american references? >> well, i think what he's been doing is, he's been doing what the irish like to do, a one, two, three, three-act play. the first act was how the machinery was set up in the first place with all these bogus ways to contact people and to spew information out. and that, i thought, was an indictment to shake the tree, that would help identify people that may have helped in the second phase. and the second phase is a precursor to the final chapter, or the final act in this play. and it's going to be to identify the people in the campaign, in the trump campaign, right up to, i think, the obstruction
activities of mr. trump, and that's going to be when the curtain falls down and i think that there's enough notice given to the target of the investigation, mr. trump and his associates, that that's why we're getting such a persistent strong push-back. now, so, the congressman is important, because it shows, we have another country -- >> candidate. >> well, we have another country -- >> i'm just say, it was a congressional candidate. >> candidate, yes. and the way it's described in the indictment, he knows that these documents are stolen -- >> right. >> so, that now -- whether or not the facts, the evidence supports that, that's a very strong accusation, and this person is involved in a crime himself, in which he knows the documents were intercepted in violation of american law, federal law. >> right, and it seems to show, john, that he is -- he is certainly implying, bob mueller, that he's willing to pursue that, aka, indict candidates who traffic in stolen material. now, john and evelyn are staying with me. bill, i want to get your view on
one more thing before you go. take a listen to how this statement from donald trump days ago sounds, given that the doj confirmed today that at the time he was making this statement, he already knew that these russian agents were going to be charged for this very serious crime. take a look. >> we will, of course, ask your favorite question, about meddling, i will be asking that question again. he may, i mean, he may. what am i going to do? he may deny it. it's one of those things. all i can do is, say did you, and don't do it again. he may deny. >> bill, how does that look now? >> and this morning, think he said it was a rigged witch hunt, the whole investigation, right? so, he's briefed that 12 russians, senior officials and their government, and their intelligence service, are going to be indicted with all this evidence behind them and then he still calls it a witch hunt. he's doubling down. he's not going to go gently into the good night here, and he's going to look at pardons and he's going to look at doing things at the justice
department, i think, to derail this investigation if he feels really under threat. >> bill kristol, appreciate you joining our special coverage tonight. i'm going to return to the other panelists. i want to bring in another voice. mueller's charges come a day after the house republicans were hammering a former investigator on this probe. my next guest, florida congre congresswoman val deckings, questioned the entire motivation yesterday. >> i never thought as a law enforcement officer i'd ever have to defend the department of justice from my republican colleagues on the other side of aisle. >> florida congresswoman val demmings is here, along with missouri congressman tom coleman. he wrote earlier this year, it is the no longer a fantasy to ask if trump committed treason. congresswoman demings, put into context this indictment with what the republicans were doing yesterday. >> ari, thank you for having me
on the show. >> sure. >> yesterday was painful. it just showed me the extend that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would go to to protect the president as opposed to pursuing the truth. that's what we all want. but today -- today was really, i think, a sad day in american history. 12 military operatives from russia acting in their official capacity charged. and i just think it sends a clear message that vladimir putin is very much aware of what was going on, the interference in our election, the effort to undermine our democracy, to sew discord and we also know that the president, every time he speaks of putin, it's almost from a position of weakness and not a position of strength. i just want to see the end of this case and see where it takes us. do you think yesterday's attacks on a former member of this team
in light of today's charges and that donald trump was warned about them earlier, smack of something inappropriate or potential style of mcckacarthyi against a legitimate investigation? >> as a former law enforcement officer, i used to say, where there's smoke, there's fire. but i just believe, looking at the anger yesterday, the desperation yesterday, to basically undermine agent strzok, even though clearly his texts were inappropriate, he admitted that from the very beginning, but the efforts to totally undermine and discredit him. but what i think shocked me more, ari, was the effort to undermine the reputation, the long-standing good reputation of the entire federal bureau of investigation. i believe that shows the desperation of the white house and the desperation of my republican colleagues, at least
on the judiciary and oversight committee, to cover for him. >> well, a former republican colleague from the house, congressman coleman here, has spoken out earlier. i want to read for you, congressman what the president's lawyer is saying about this, the other side of the table. quote, the indictments are good news, russians are nailed. no americans involved. time for mueller to end the pursuit of the president and say president trump completely innocent. number one, your response to that, at number two, how does your -- your past decision to raise the question of treason look in light of today's indictment to you? >> thank you, ari, for having me on the show. rudy giuliani is, i don't know if he's a performance artist or a lawyer or a friend of the president, but he doesn't make sense. the fact of the matter is, i would not go out if i were he and declare my innocence because i wasn't charged in this indictment. there's going to be more indictments. as john said earlier, he is
setting the table for the next shoe to drop. there's two analogies put together. but the point of it is, we have for the first time that confirmation that what happened in this instance was state-sponsored cyber attacks. >> right. >> and that is different from what we heard before with the other 13 people that have been indicted, the actors there. these people ware officials of the government, used to call them kgb agents. >> and that government is led by vladimir putin, who is president is about to meet with. in your view, is the president's preparations and public comments for that meeting make him look more or less guilty? >> well, i don't think he's prepared. i have dealt with the former communist party and the kgb when i was a member of congress. and they know what they're doing. they're tough. they're in your face. he'll fold like an accordion if they do that with him. the problem is that donald trump has not condemned these hackings and these cyber attacks on our
democracy. he -- it's always about him. how does it effect him? the image of him, his victory, the size of the victory. it's never about the country. it's never about our democracy. it's about him. and i think he needs to condemn what went on, cancel the meeting and if he doesn't cancel the meet egg, ari, i think he is giving us reason to believe that he's not just falling into the hands of putin, he may already be in the hands of putin. >> and i'm running late on time, i'm fascinated to hear this, especially from a former republican congressperson like yourself. congresswoman demings, do you agree that he should leave the meeting? >> i was totally shocked that the president's press secretary said he had no intention to cancel the meeting. he should definitely cancel. not prepared before today's announcement and certainly not prepared after. >> to the congresswoman and the former congressman, thank you both. our special coverage continues live right now, as promised. former roger stone aide, sam
nunberg, and back with me for context, evelyn farkas. people in politics say, oh, we knew there was hacking. but the man you used to work for, donald trump, and many people around him, long and still doubt about who did it, how it happened, whether it mattered. do you think today's indictment, which donald trump was briefed on, should change his mind about undermining both the fact that the russians did this and attacking the probe? >> well, first of all, i think this should change the mind of any republican voter that doesn't want to vote this midterm, because donald trump impeached by a democrat congress, if you look at this indictment. the fact they would release this indictment before his meeting with putin, too. >> you think this -- you think this is a predicate for impeachment, why? >> well, mueller's clearly setting up the narrative, the narrative, the next indictments coming will be, i assume, roger and maybe others, i mean, it's been reported by cnbc, i was never asked about this, that somebody was asked about a meeting roger had with now his name escaped me while i'm on
live tv, the one that worked for manafort, right under him. >> rick gates. >> that he had a meeting with him, so, who knows what they talked about with the e-mails. >> and rick gates has pled guilty. >> and he's cooperating. >> and he's cooperating. >> you say today, you think it's more likely that roger stone will be indicted? >> i think roger, as i said, after i left the grand jury, roger was -- it would be nice to say that he was a subject. he was clearly a target. my question -- >> that was clear to you in the way that you were being questioned? >> yeah, i've said that to you before. >> you said at the time, though, you felt like it was like they were trying to set up a perjury trap, which has dealt with statements roger made. this doesn't look like perjury, sam. this looks like laying out the predicate for the fact that roger stone was talking to the russian military agents who were claimi ining to be -- they had romaine can cover story and
roger backed that up, too. >> i think -- well, in terms of cooperating with the russians, i had this argument with him, i've talked about this publicly, i said to him, i don't know why you are associating yourself with these people so publicly. our intelligence community said that the russians did it and he says to me that he didn't believe the russians hacked. so, i would say -- >> do you think roger is that stupid? >> i think roger is conspiratorial, yes. i think roger, alex jones and that whole -- >> that defense that you're sharing, and i appreciate -- >> this is all i know. >> i understand, you're explaining what you've learned. and it makes you interesting.fi. you are explaining your understanding. that suggests that roger stone is stupid or a novice. we have dealt with him. he strikes me as neither of those things. >> roger is someone who does not trust the government sometimes, and has seen disinformation put out. i disagree with him. it was clear to me that putin did this. putin is not my friend. i think putin is not an ally.
by the way, the president should confront putin about this publicly in his press conference about this. >> you think donald trump should do that. do you think he will do that? >> i would hope so. i don't know. >> evelyn? >> well, you know where i stand. if the president meets with putin, which i think is a horrible idea, i thought it was a horrible idea before this, but it's still a horrible idea, it's even worse now, unless he comes back with 26 russians in handcuffs, you know, because we need them extradited now. >> as a matter of diplomacy, does it look weak and soft to give putin this meeting after this -- >> you are leading the witness, yes. i mean -- >> i would -- i wouldn't. would i -- sam, would i lead a witness? >> no. >> yes, you are leading the it withness. right now, the russians, this kremlin, this russian government only understands firmness. if the president goes and meets with putin, i mean, unless he takes his shoe off like nikita khrushchev, the former head of the soviet government and pounds it on the table publicly, he's
not going to afeppear firm to putin, the russian people, the russian military. and the russians will only stop their meddling, because remember, they are still meddle, they will only stop it today if our president is firm. >> evelyn farkas with a courthoukrus chef we will bury you reference. >> that shows why the special counsel does effect this president conducting foreign policy. releasing this indictment today was selective. i love this indictment from the point of view of, we're holding the russians accountable. i hope these people never enter the united states, but this is -- >> but there's nothing -- >> let me push you on that. there's nothing new -- there's nothing new about the doj going after spies when they operate here. preet bharara, under obama, indicted russians and other people, it goes through, the president was briefed in advance. you're not alleging anything
wrong -- >> i don't think the president could have delayed this. what if the president or his white house said -- >> why would you want to delay this? why wouldn't you want to be tough when the facts show interference in our elections? >> i think if he would say, look, i have to meet with this guy, why don't we do it the next friday? i think it puts -- >> let me play for you the other thing, organization one is named here, it appears to be wikileaks and alleges they did more than release information, that they seemed to be actively involved in trying to help your former candidate, the trump campaign, with the timing. and then you have the fact that donald trump was very publicly boisterous about wikileaks during the campaign. take a look. >> this just came out. this just came out. wikileaks, i love wikileaks. you see so much from these, wikileaks. wikileaks unveils horrible, horrible things about hillary clinton. boy, that wikileaks has done a job on her, hasn't it? >> do you think during the campaign, donald trump or his
top leadership team had an actual understanding of what's alleged in here today, regarding wick key leaks and the russians? >> i can't answer that, because i did not communicate with them. i would say that everybody on the republican, conservative media side, i saw this and i thought it was hypocritical, wanted to believe assange when he said it wasn't the russians. >> the benign interpretation of that is a lot of people shade a lot of things for their team. there is a benign interpretation. the question, though, with what we're learning about the coordination, whether donald trump sounded so loving because he knew something. hang with me. evelyn, thank you for your expertise. i want to turn to another piece of this in our special coverage, which is how today's indictment car rries national security implications. mueller indicted the veracity of putin's famous denials. >> you and the russian government never tried to influence the outcome of the u.s. presidential election and
there will be no evidence found? >> translator: watch my lips, i said no. >> no. well, today mueller says yes, tracing this hacking of our election all the way back to two buildings in moscow housing putin's own intelligence officers. mueller alleging a theory of the case that russians did all sorts of things to hurt the clinton campaign, including installing malicious computer code, spoofing, deleting files and stealing social security numbers in america. the russian intelligence officers always cast a wide net. you can see here they went after many others in the democratic party beyond clinton. over 300 people. and mueller alleging these russian officers recruited and deployed intermediaries to hide putin's footprints. the idea is to trick you as an american voter into thinking that damaging information coming out about clinton maybe came from more neutral sources. and that getting a leg up during the campaign as candidate trump wholeheartedly embraced the leaks.
russians went a step further, i was just discussing this with sam nunberg, strategizing allegedly with americans, timing the leaks of stolen material to maximize the damage to clinton. john flannery is back with me and sam nunberg still riding along for any thoughts you have. john, walk us through what this means when you see the nature of the russian operation and the idea that there was american intel or american expertise along for the ride. >> i think it's a disgraceful sign of betraying our country. and anybody who would participate in that deserves exposure to the most serious criminal punishment. i'm fascinated by the continuing lie by putin that we ask trump to ask him, do you really believe what you're saying? and if they're both in the same conspiracy, as i suspect and believe and many do, then
they're both part of a public lie. both are going to say that, oh, i didn't do anything, says putin, and trump is going to say, well, that's what he says, so, that's the way it must be. i think that becomes impossible in this environment, and i think that the law and the truth are ultimately going to bring down at least this fellow that we have in the white house presently. and the question is, you know, when you think about it, is, you know, you talk about the russians, putin and being compared to courthouse chef, we will bury you, if we don't do something, trump will bury us. he's compromised the function of government. he's taken our allies and dissed them, perhaps because they cooperated in the intelligence that made it possible. we're withdrawing from economic alliances that have made our lifestyle what it is. and you have to ask yourself , s he doing this for putin or is this just bad and evil judgment for what's best for americans? the implications of this conspiracy are enormous and
dangerous and roger stone is obviously not the only one who is involved in this, and there's a whole host of characters and we had no contacts with russians and now we know there are 11 or 13 or whoever many specifically documented, so -- i think that we're in a place where we're really fighting to keep the republic. as benjamin franklin asked, do you have a republic if you can keep it? this man is not a republican. he's un-american and he is a criminal. and until we do something about it, this nation will be at risk. >> sam? >> well, i have a lot of criticisms of him personally, but to say he's a criminal and he's not an american, i think, he cares about this country, he has a different view of the country and to talk about the economy -- i'm not going to get into his accomplishments here, but that's one per speck five, which once again shows that donald trump's presidency is on the line in the midterms. and we're going to have to find out, with mueller playing a very
good game here. he has, look, the prosecutors and this gentleman has said it, they set up narratives. he has a narrative here to impeach the president, which the democrats, if they control the house, they will impeach him. i have no doubt the russians hacked. i think the president, once again, will be well served if he confronts putin the same way a macron did. >> well, the midterms aren't that far away. you seem to think that this new indictment goes further in the case that democrats and some republicans, depending on their view, might say, if this goes to the top, something has to be done to hold someone accountable. otherwise you have potentially an election conspiracy that changes the outcome of who is in control of the country. how could you not deal with that? >> well, one, rod rosenstein did
say, i believe, in the press conference, that this did not effect the election outcome. >> he did say that. >> number two, with that said, i can make the case that trump has been very hard on putin, not b publicly -- >> just secretly. >> secretly, which is a mistake by him politically. look at the sanctions. he inherited them during the transition and put more on putin. >> i hear john flannery grumbling. i'm sure he is. we get the whole range of views here. i'm so over on time, john, you have to go quickly. >> well, i think that we're so far past it with this president, he makes ro s errors in every direction. when has a president been treated like a baby, floating overhead in a nation that's our ally? >> well, i -- john, i would not call him a baby. i think it's well documented he doesn't appreciate that. >> child. >> what i'm going to do is go onto my next guest, who i specially booked for a different perspective on this, i'm very
grateful for you making time for us tonight. >> thup. >> as we turn the page, bob mueller's new indictment marched into the center of polarized politics. these documents raise suspicious about how much the russian operation shaped the race and you have the what if questions that are intense for both sides. aggrieved clinton fans losing by the narrowest margins and the questions rankle trump fans who find they were underestimated. now, i say that because today mueller's boss showed his awareness of that divide. he's urging nonpartisanship, which could be a warning to trump allies who did potentially benefit from russia's crimes. >> we confront foreign interference in american elections, it's important for us to avoid thinking politically as republicans or democrats. and instead to think patriotically as americans. our response must not depend on which side was victimized.
the blame for election interference belongs to the criminals who committed election interference. >> but one side was victimized. i'm joined by a top clinton official hacked during that campaign, a man who chaired the party that was hacked. today's indictment showing that while my guests there was fighting trump, there was a second front in that war. cyber attacks plotting to leak, quote, anything hillary-related at the exact time that could overshadow the nominating convention and take a look, it sort of worked. >> started and we already have our first major controversy. >> the e-mails, which reopened a rift in the democratic party as it tries to present a united front in philadelphia. >> even with no longer taking the convention stage, we could see disunity in the arena. >> everyone agrees was caused by those timed e-mail leaks. and within days, trump said this. >> russia, if you're listening,
i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> and look at the other side of your screen. the political world tonight processing this charge in the mueller indictment, that trump said that and russia began hacking clinton staff e-mails for the first time, the same day he made that request. i'm joined now by the top aide to hillary clinton who was hacked during this campaign. and former dnc chair and presidential candidate howard dean. your response, neera? >> you know, i think that i'm really gratified that the department of justice actually investigated and found that the specific russians who targeted americans, who stole from americans in order to influence the election, the fact that we have an impartial enough
department of justice, the mueller investigation, to actually find the truth, is vital for our democracy. i think it's frankly insane that the president of the united states is going to have a summit with putin and after he's -- after we have these facts in front of us. i would call on the president to not have this summit, to actually be a president for the -- for all of americans and act in the defense of our country, and the very least, say to putin that your acts against america are intolerable, because i do not trust that's possible from a president who was aided and, you know, we may still have evidence that he colluded directly for these results. i think the president needs to basically cancel the summit. >> governor dean, neera raises the foreign policy implications. it is so remarkable to learn
today that donald trump was briefed and knew that we were moving, as a country, further at indicting these russian military agents for this election interference for what is called in the law, quote, a conspiracy against the united states, farther than we've ever gone, and that with that knowledge, he went out and praised putin and said that would be his easiest meeting on this trip. your -- you're a person who didn't replace you immediately, but someone that's come after you to chair the dnc said this about it today. >> what he ought to do is hand him over these indictments, demand the immediate prompt extradition of all the defendants involved and that's what he should be doing. he is playing into the hands of putin right now. >> your view, governor? >> i think that's true. look, trump -- i have long said i think he's crazy, and i think he is. there's -- this has been a disastrous foreign trip and it's
not going to get better when he meets with vladimir putin, who has just had 12 of his people indict indicted. you know, this nonsense about this is all some plot or whatever it is, fake news or whatever trump calls it, 33 indictments including guilty pleas from an impartial grand jury. i mean, the american people, who are presumably populating this grand jury, think that there's something to this. and we have not yet gotten to the nub of the question, we now have established that it's incredibly likely that the russians did hack, now we've got to find out if they did it in collusion with the trump campaign and it looks like they may well have. >> neera, this was something that your candidate mentioned at debates and you tried to get traction for. how much stronger is the case now and do you think this is why you lost the election? >> hillary clinton lost the election by 70,000 votes across three states. the idea that wall to wall
wikileaks coverage, driven by donald trump and his 164 mentions of wikileaks in last month of the campaign, did not create 70,000 votes across those three states, none of us will know. the idea that you can -- anyone can say that it did not actually create the loss, we can't say that. and i think that is what we have to recognize, which is the russians did this for a purpose. it was to help elect donald trump. and then he was elected in a very close, competitive election. in which their work was used in the national media daily, with a constant drip, drip, drip. and that is why, i think, this information is important. i think it's really vital that we get to the bottom of whether there was direct engagement by donald trump himself. i will remind all our viewers of one simple fact, which is the wikileaks dumps started within
minutes of the access hollywood video going live. the idea that there's no connection just seems to me, we have to get to the bottom of that, because i think at the end of the day, whether donald trump knew about this before the election is a central question in front of us, and over the last year, we have learned stronger and stronger and stronger connections. >> well, the central legal and democratic question in america and bob mueller's moved further on it tonight. that's for sure. neera and howard, thank you. we're fitting in our first break as part of our special coverage. who is mueller looking at next? stay with me. and i'm still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to,
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the particulars that people may assume from the indictment today. and also raising questions about how the federal prosecutors might actually prove this case against the russians, since it's unlikely that the russians will ever show up. i asked him, a text, that is, i said, roger when did you learn that it was the russians? he said, today, that is still an al game and unproven at a trial. do you expect the russians to show up for trial? will there be an inspection of the dnc servers to prove the government's allegations? in other words, what he's saying is, if you come after me, i'm going to counter with demanding to see all of the dnc servers, which is, of course, republicans have wanted to do for a long time. and i will say this also. he knows, as does paul manafort, and the two of them have known each other and worked on and off together for about 35 years.
>> sure. >> they know that their chief protectors here, ironically enough, are donald trump and vladimir putin. there are no two people in the united states more interested, other than bob mueller, in what is said over in helsinki, finland, on sunday, than roger stone and paul manafort. >> briefly, howard, do you think mueller is trying to use tonight's indictment to scare other people into total cooperation? >> no question. no question. and roger can be as defiant as he wants. there are other people here, and the key question now is, now that the witch hunt has found its coven in moscow, who knew what when and who communicated with them knowingly? you don't have to know the identity of the person you're in a conspiracy with, if you're in a conspiracy, but you have to know about illegal will pabehav. by the way, everybody in washington knew that the russians were behind this. the notion that roger stone didn't have a clue is ridiculous. >> i appreciate that fact check. something we were exploring earlier with his former
associate, sam nunberg. a lot to get to. howard, appreciate you joining us with your reporting. up next, the reverend al sharpton's reaction to this mueller news, and more straight ahead. (vo) i was born during the winter of '77. i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru. just for a shot. but why go back there when you can stay homefice
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we've got more reaction on those mueller charges today, and since this is "the beat," we might get into some other developments. i'm joined by al sharpton, and rapper young paris, who is on jay-z's album, rock nation. this is quite a panel, if i can say so. >> thank you. >> rev, when you look at this week's news, what's on your mind? >> i look at what happened with the whole question of this mueller indictment, i think that when you see 12 russians indicted, they informed the president in advance and he still calls it a witch hunt and is going to meet with the president of russia -- i mean, other than if he's going to say,
i want you to extradite the 12 russians, what will he even be doing in the room? >> what's there to talk about? >> what's there to talk about. i think we're getting very close to him really showing his true nature. >> what'son your mind? >> for me, i was watching the fbi hearings yesterday and that was just crazy. the questions were all over the place, it was like, who's on third, what's on second, and then the guy was like, i've been instructed not to answer that question. and it was just crazy to me, and the lady joins in at the end and asks the one guy, have you taken your medication? you know, so, i was just watching that, like, what's going on? >> and republicans have finally found something they don't like about part of the fbi, for the first time. >> first time in history. and when you think about how they are discrediting the fbi, discrediting prosecutions and
investigations, when we've done it on the movement side, we were un-american, unpatriots and everything you can think of. now, you have republicans doing this, it's amazing to me, and i think that you're seeing the world look at this country, saying, what's going on? i was watching the president in england today and i was there three weeks ago when a lot of the progressives were getting ready for the march. it's almost like we are the laughing stock of the world because of our inconsistency as a country. and i think everybody is seeing that blatantly because of donald trump. >> well, and the thing i want to flag is looking at something we touched on earlier in the show, mueller saying that you have these russian military agents posing as a fake hacker so, trying to trick us here in america, and working with the u.s. congressional candidate for stolen documents, the conspirator sent the candidate for stolen documents relating to the candidate's opponent. this is scary stuff.
and anyone who looks at this should care about what's happening to our democracy. not which side might benefit in the short run, because if countries can do this, what kind of democracy do we have? >> they had a false site up saying they were black lives matter. they had false sites up quoting many of us that were dealing with the question of what happened in ferguson. this is fright pg aening and it all of us up. >> this is not your normal summer friday. young paris, i got to meet you, we do more than one topic on the show, the rev knows that, and when we talk about who has fallen back, i understand you have one that might give us a little lighter moment here on a big week. >> yeah, just a lighter bit. i just came off tour in africa and getting off the plane, i get on my instagram and all i'm saying this is dance craze from drake. there's a kid in new york that created the dance. i don't know if you guys maybe have some audio here or
something to play it. but this is the dance, you know. >> how do you feel about it? >> so, it's crazy to look at these things now, because i feel like because of the internet and we have so much access to viral videos, like, any time things take a week to go rviral, but now, it's incredible to see millions of viewers and people impactfully attacking this song in such a quick time, it's just -- >> well, yeah, and the culture can spread so much more quickly. i saw simon says, your big hit, has over 10 million views. i'm sure a lot of those have come since it came out. >> yeah, and it goes away and it comes back and it's a new bunch of kids rediscovering the record all over again, so, it's just amazing in that way. >> like these kids be coming in as djs. you have kids that are -- >> everyone can share whatever they find. >> a lot of kids didn't know what simon says was until you
came out with it. not like still standing because dwight mckeen wrote that. >> to bring it all together, i don't think people knew when you recorded that song you were talking about bob mueller when you said, control the game like tomb raider. >> ah. >> now we know that, if you don't know. i want to fit in a break. thank you for being apart of our panel. as always, check out "politics nation," sundays, 8:00 a.m. we'll be right back. even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
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doe show." 9:00 p.m. tonight, richard engel is broadcasting live from london. congressman adam schiff joins and they've added me to the mix. i'll be part of the special coverage. be sure to check that out. that does it for us. be >> i told myself the worst part of dying is being afraid of dying. and if i'm not afraid it won't be so bad. >> reporter: she was a college student. found on a lonely road in texas. >> we figured she had been sexually assaulted and dumped here. >> reporter: tough questions for her boyfriend. >> where was i the night before? what had i been doing? when had i last seen her? >> i really thought he could be our killer. >> reporter: but while police try to prove it, another attack. >> he has got me by the throat and he's shaking me and he's yeg at me, telling me not to say a word