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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  July 20, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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obtained. on the tape they reportedly talk about payments to a former playboy model who says she had an affair with president trump. the time spoke to the president's legal team, rudy giuliani, trump's lawyer, con firchled in a telephone conversation on friday that mr. trump had discussed the payments with mr. cohen on the tape but said the payment was ultimatelily doultimately done. mr. trump had directed mr. cohen if you were to make the payment related to the woman, write a check rather than sending cash so it could be documented. in the big scheme of things, it is powerful evidence mr. rudy giuliani says. joining me by phone now, michael
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scm smith. >> what more can you tell us about the reporting here? >> this was the stuff that was seized by michael cohen's office. the feds went in and took stuff from his office. this is one of those things. michael helcohen did this secre two months before the election. they're discussing what would be a second payment to the model. the second payment that would ensure her silence going forward. this was after the nationa national -- this was another payment and a second payment.
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>> do you we know why michael cohen would be recording donald trump secretly. >> no, that's an interesting question. why would a lawyer be recording a conversation with someone. that could be seized. we know michael cohen had a history recording a lot of different conversations to a lot of different people but why on such a sensitive thing would he secretly do this. was he doing it as a way to have leverage on the president later or was he doing it in a way of protecting himself as a lawyer saying look, i have done the work that i am supposed to do and here is the evidence client telling me that. cohen is under a tricky spot here of all sorts of investigation and connecting to the president and these payments. cohen who is showing indications that he'll be willing to flip on
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the president and cooperating with authorities and in exchange of not going to jail for so long. >> do we know whether michael cohen has other tapes or secretly tape donald trump on other occasions? did we think this is a one off? of all the conversations that we know between him and trump, this is the most significant one that we know about. this is the most significant that we know about. and we know that there is other ones where he's calling and leaving the president messages or brief conversations with him but nothing of this substance. this is the most sensitive one. >> for folks who have not been following the story as closely as we have. the woman we are talking about and this is not stormy daniels, this is karen mccdougal, this i an affair that she claims happens for a year after melania
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trump given birth to barron. >> this affair occurs around that time. that is personal and political problem of the president. this is no t a legal issue for him. there is nothing legally wrong here. this may look bad and problematic but at the same time the legal front on the campaign finance front where they're investigating michael cohen and how these payments are made, the president is fine. i want to bring in kristen welker here. i know that you just talked to rudy giuliani, what more did he tell you. >> reporter: a source that's close to him familiar of the entire matter and we are trying to get reaction from rudy giuliani himself. the source underscores the quote by rudy giuliani and confirms them in "the new york times," i will highlight the reporting in his team of the big scheme of
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thing of powerful evidence, that from rudy giuliani and that's what the talking point is going to be from the trump's team. what has hung over this issue with michael cohen, the entire time and what makes the white house and the president so nervous frankly is the idea that think about who michael cohen is. he was the president's long time fixer. he's not just his personal attorney, he's someone who knows all the details of thorny matters in trump's life. will michael cohen cooperate with investigatorinvestigators? he has been very clear when donald trump was about to become the next president that he'll take a bullet for the president but now his tone has shifted. he's been given interviews indicate something he's thinking about. president trump was asked about this in june. take a look at what he had to say.
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>> i did nothing wrong. >> you have to understand this stuff would have come out a long time ago. i did nothing wrong. >> is michael still your frien?s >> i have not spoken to him. >> is he still your lawyer? no, he's not my lawyer. >> you are asking me a question. >> i want to know if you are worried if he's going to cooperate with federal agents? >> no, i am not wored becauried i did not do anything wrong. >> just behind where i am standing, craig, that question of whether he thought michael cohen would flip, he said i did nothing wrong and he went onto say he's no longer my lawyer and i have not spoken to him in quite sometime. we are going to try to get an update of reaction.
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this changes the page significantly but it is another controversy that he has to deal with. >> michael schmidt. when it was revealed that this post-ga payment happens days before the election, what was the response of the administration? >> the campaign says trump did not know anything about this. we know it is a false statement. this story ran on november 4th, four days before the election and he laid out how this payment had been made. there was a lot going on at that time as you recall comey had sent a letter to congress about reopening the clinton e-mail investigation and that soaked up a lot of attention there. this received some but not
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nearly as much as that. the campaign says they knew nothing about it. they said this was new to them and it is hard to believe that folks certainly the president's lawyer knew about it at that point. >> to be clear michael schmidt. this is not just of the details of a man having an affair with a woman. investigators are looking at whether michael cohen broke campaign's finance laws or whether he was part with a group of people that broke campaign finance laws. >> this is about payments and catch and kill. that's the issue that's being looked at here and whether these payments that were made to folks in connection with this violated campaign finance and some type of donation, any type of aiding
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the candidate in a way that was not reported and that was not being transparent about. >> michael schmidt, "new york times," one of the author on this article here. kristen welker, just to be clear here, we do not have a briefing scheduled this afternoon, is that right? >> reporter: no briefing scheduled at this point in time. this is the type of friday where the president is preparing the leave and head to bedminister. we'll shout questions to him about all of this. >> i know you will be shouting questions to him the loudest. come back if you have more news kristen welker. a former u.s. attorney and deputy assistant attorney under clinton and chuck rosenberg and
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senior fbi official. rudy giuliani says this is powerfully exculpatory. >> this would be exactly where rudy giuliani need some credibility to fill this and he had none. the notion that it takes with one's lawyer discussing hush post-gam payments that you already denied resulted in campaign violations but possibly wire fraud and bank fraud and it is bizarre on its face and seems like the sort of reflexive 180 degrees spin that rudy giuliani have been employing for many months. there are more tapes to come. it is complete spin control and
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he lost his credibility on these issues. >> legal implications for president trump in this case? >> yeah, there is several, craig. it is an interesting set of questions. >> the filter team, the team that obtained the materials from the search executed by the fbi has to review all of those materials to make sure there is no attorney/client privilege. if it is privilege, it cannot go to the prosecution team. basically if mr. trump and mr. cohen are discussing a crime on that tape and tlas crihere is a for the exception and the tape can go to prosecutors and they can use it on trials. mr. trump and mr. cohen who are charged of violating federal election laws. if you make a payment permitted by law in order to influence an
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election, if dow you do it in c or check, however you do it, if it is an excess of an amount, that's a crime. >> the government has to show it is perfectly shown to influence the election. >> is this past privilege review and the feedback they were showing it to rudy giuliani means it is already determined that it is not in the privilege documents and more over, of course, rudy giuliani will be waiviing whatever privilege he had. it is in the koesher pile, is that fair? >> i think that's fair. i think that's fair craig, what i was trying to do is explain the framework of how these things are processed and of course if it is already passed through privilege review, it means the team likely concluded there is a crime fraud exception. like harry, i would not rely on mr. rudy giuliani
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characterization of anything here. if he says today is july 20th, ill stii would still consult a calendar. >> the same question i asked our last guest here. michael cohen, why would he be recording secretly? is that customary or am i missing something? >> in trump's world maybe customary. the notion that you can't trust donald trump is well in grain and all his associates. maybe he's just a guy who likes to tape. this is a mother load. they seize everything and when ever he would have had the impulse to tape over many years, they may have it. that puts cohen in a tough position because when he goes into talk to the prosecutors, remember this came from the prosecutor, jaundirudy giuliani not from cohen. he has to know everything he has and probably don't remember what
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it is, they know it already. it is hard for him not to be forthcoming. i assume that he did not trust trump and we know that in some way he was not really acting as his lawyer here or was engaging in some kind of frauds. so he wants to protect himself. >> chuck, does this tape put more pressure on michael cohen to make a deal of some sort to be fully cooperative? >> well, michael cohen presumably always knew about this tape and any other tapes and evidence. i don't think it changes the calculation for michael cohen. my experience as a federal prosecutor is that almost anybody who was the target of an fbi search becomes a defendant and almost everybody who's a defendant becomes a cooperator. it is their interest to avoid jail time and mitigate jail time to cooperate. we are getting a peak of the stuff that cohen has known for a long time.
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heck, he's the guy that hits record to capture the conversation. so, my expectations that you will see michael cohen at some point cut a deal with the government in order to cut his own losses. >> harry, go ahead, first of all -- i want to ask you in addition to what you are about to say, this new reporting, what does it mean for the possibility of campaign finance violations? >> okay, first just let me say whatever cohen did here, the tape and other conversations present the possibility of a conspiracy and any agreement to do something unlawful with an overt act would present liability to everyone who agrees. so if there is some kind of agreement of the president and the nominee coming out of the tape, it matters. the violation is as your
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correspondent said, it sounds technical. they got something of real value here and they did not have to pay for it and there is a whole another public policy issue that in this country we could have the press in possession of a valid story just kill it because their cozy relationship with the campaign. something funky happened there for the american people rights to know. in finance, the execution of it probably involves with banks and the playboy model herself, mcdougal. again, conspiracy to do all of these things. >> i don't want the truth to get lost in all of this, chuck. reality is administration before the administration, the campaign denied all of this. none of it was true and there is no women and there is no affair.
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and now all of a sudden you got rudy giuliani who's saying and again in a statement to "the new york times" that yes the president was on the phone less than two-minutes talking to his then personal attorney and the president's logic was we should write a check if we are going to pay her off so at least there is a record. let's not pay her in cash. how do they reconcile the two versions of the story? >> i don't think there is any reconciling anymore, craig. as i mentioned earlier i don't believe mr. rudy giuliani is credible on this or many, many other issues that he has addressed. if i want to truth and sometimes it is hard to get. the place i look is court and for the work of bob pmueller an his team. this may take some time. it is not clear to me that mr. cohen is ready to plea anything or that he'll be charged any time soon. if you want to see what the truth is and if you want to see
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what a principle, detailed thorough investigation looks like, look at the stuff that bob muller files in court, that ought to be your post, not what rudy giuliani says or the statement comes out of the white house. look for the work of these prosecutors and theseagents. that's the truth. >> chuck, thank you. there is the legal analysis, let's turn to some political analysis here. fiphillip rucker and hughes shorts, all of them msnbc political analysts working hard on a friday afternoon, gentlemen, thank you. mr. rucker, what does all of this mean potentially for president trump? >> it could be damaging for president trump. we know why the president was so concerned a few months back when michael cohen's office and hotel
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room were raided because he knew there were recordings of this nature. we don't know what other recordings the fbi may have. this is only one conversation but it could potentially be troubling for the president, i suspect we are going to see some sort of reaction over at the white house later this afternoon from the president as he heads off to new jersey for the weekend. and also is important because it shows the president's statement and the statements of defending him including in the white house have not been true about this nature. he denied the affair itself and now he's been recorded on tape discussing it with his lawyer. >> i think you are alluding to hope hicks. she says the affair were untrue and we had no knowledge of any of this, what can they say now?
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>> they can say when the transcript is released. the statement is not true. we need to see that transcript but when ever tape collides with political people, it is always a bad result. you got all the transcripts that was made and now he has the promise of more tapes on the raid of mr. cohen's office. >> hughes, what's your gut tells you on this? do you believe this is all just smoke or do you believe there is a fire lurking here? >> oh, there is a big fire here near the aspen security forum. what it does though craig, early nbc reported on the iran influence operation, the entire week was designed to build people up that iran was preparing to attack our infrastructure and now this story has stepped on that completely. >> again, for folks who have not been following the story as
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closely as we are. we are talking about karen mcdougal here. here she is a few months ago. >> what everyone saw on tv, i didn't see in in man. i see a kind man. >> if melania trump is watching this, what would you want her to know? >> oh, tast tou it is a tough o. >> or say to her? >> what can you say except -- i am sorry, i would not want it done to me. i am sorry. >> eli, how did they spin this now? how does the white house try and spin a story like this? >> i don't know how they'll spin this and respond of the
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specifics of the affair. i was talking to the people who were working at the campaign of the late stages and they said it was taken for granted and there is going to be issues with women coming forward and michael cohen, it was his job basically to fix them. if they respond to this today the way the white house has to other things like this that kro cropped up. you may see them express frustrations that the counsel investigation going far beyond the skup of the question of the election and the election of interference and possible collusion question that this is a whole another realm of inquiry of the president's personal life and they may argue of the court of the politic opinion that it is going too far. as far as cohen talking to people close to him today, as loyal as he seems, the fact that he recorded his conversations
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with trump may have been an indication that we can see it that even at the time he knew that maybe he had to protect himself given what trump was asking him to do and i think the white house, the deepest fear of the president and the people around him and the legal team is not knowing what other tapes may have come out of the radar of michael cohen's office. michael avenatti representing stormy daniels, he was on last hour, he spent some time talking about what you talked about. take a listen. >> the biggest problem for the president and i have been saying this for some time that michael cohen is one of or was one of the world's great evidence hoarders in that. >> he maintained past cell phones and multiple audio recordings and he maintained documents and e-mails and text
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messages, that's a very, very bad thing to the president. >> michael avenatti characterization of michael cohen there as an evidence hoarder. how concern should that make team trump? >> very concerned. >> it makes the people around trump deeply concerned, officials in the white house have absolutely no idea what sort of records were seized by the fbi from cohen's office. president trump's personal lawyer trying to navigate this mueller probe have no idea what was seized by cohen's office. as we know just from the reporting about michael cohen and his priactices as an attorney, he did keep a lot of record and he did a lot of work as donald trump's fixer. that's more than being a personal lawyer, that's fixing a lot of sticky and difficult situation. if there is a record or audio trail in the form of e-mails or
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other electronic records that could be very problematic for president trump. >> hugh, i am goung ing to poses to you as well. why would a personal attorney be recording conversations of a man who's running for the president of the united states? >> i will tell you right now. i have been teaching law for 22 year and practicing for 35. i don't know any lawyer who does that to their client unless their client requested it. i am awfully glad that i never had this conversation and every reporter and every client who ever did have to ask themselves a question, what was he recording and of course, almost every lawyer is an everyday hoarder, there are obligations of ethics to retain files that's useful to your client. the idea that is seized and he's taping other public figures, there is a lot of spines throughout michael cohen's world and not just president trump.
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>> you make a good point. i am thinking that i am pretty glad i never had a phone conversation with michael cohen. >> you and me both. >> phillip rucker again, maybe it was you or the previous guest suggested that this white house may respond a little later on this friday afternoon. you cover this administration for some time and based on how we know how they handle crisis, what do you think the response will be? >> the response will be done by president trump himself. he see himself as the best communicator in the building and i don't think anybody who communicates on his behalf is going to stick their neck out there commenting on this issue. i think they should rather leave it to him. he leaves the oval office and walks to board marine one and you will find kristen welker and all the other correspondents there shouting questions and
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he's attempted to come forward to answer those questions so i think about 3:30 or so when he heads off to new jersey will be a good opportunity for him to weigh in. >> phillip rucker and eli thank you and hugh hewitt. >> much more on vladimir putin's potential visit in the phenomena. much more on that right after this. but what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor? what if there were millions of them? join us for the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's. register today at alz.org/walk. and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid,
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if that meeting takes place in washington, i am hopeful that meeting will take place this fall. >> mike pompeo there with the ambassador of the united nations nikki hailey applauding a potential second meeting of vladimir putin. d new details to report of vladimir putin's visit to washington. president trump has asked his national security adviser, john bolton to relay the invitation among the topic up for discussion and into russian meddling today. cnbc aired the interview of the second meeting. >> is that in the works? is it planned? >> i would say it is in the works. we have been having a bad relationship with russia for many years. and you know that may be wrong. it may be that you can't do anything.
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it is possible. i am different than other president, i am a deal maker. >> the invite coming as the white house whatthad to do for up. the two leaders have talked about a possible referendum on crimea and ukraine. a big boom to putin. the administration is not supporting that referendum and also any such referendum would have no legitimacy. for now, we bring in our columnist from "the washington post." >> david, first of all, does the second meeting, how smart would that be? >> it depends on whether the agenda is prepared or not just donald trump in his mind has an idea of what he wants to accomplish. the agenda setting process has been largely done after the
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helsinki meeting and maybe before also and here is what's on the agenda. and giving up control of that sense and messaging of the world of what the two sides talk about is a mistake. if president trump and pompeo and other in the administration can prepare a clear agenda about problems that matter without sacrificing u.s. interests. i felt more diplomacy is better than less. the idea that you never talk to people even though your adversary is wrong. the preparation has to be done. it needs to begin now with pompeo and trump and bolton. what the heck happened? helsinki? >> we don't know what was said in that room. >> i want to read something in the new york times to. he wrote in part, over the
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course of my career as an under cover, i saw russian intelligence manipulate many people. i never thought i would see the day where an american president would be one of them by playing into vladimir putin's hands, the leader of the free world actively participated in a russian disinformation campaign that legitimizeed russian denial and weakened the credibility of the united states. >> that's a republican congress. >> the republicans have been shocked. i felt since monday's press conference in helsinki, we reached a bit of a tipping point, the defensive donald trump from the summit and on the hill has been less evident.
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newt gingrich was quick to call this the worst mistake of trump's presidency. trump has been screwing around and amend his statements and change the impression and denied. he's a republican from the swing district in texas. he knows what he's talking ability whabout when he says the president of the united states is played in helsinki, you have to listen to that closely. >> david, what do you think is behind the president desire to make nice with vladimir putin? >> i think donald trump in every sense is a disrupter, something was done one way before. he wants to do it in his own way
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and i have described him not of the author of the art of the deal but the man suffered near personal bankruptcy in 1990 who was wounded and defensive and angry and looking for new investors and looking for new partners. that's the person we saw at h helsinki. as i wrote this morning, it is hard for me to imagine he's a control russia asia. if he was, the russians have to be careful and not to make him look so cozy with putin. he's something different. i think his value of the russians that he's so destructive of america's traditional relationships and trading partnerships alliances and why does he do that? because they have something on him and i think that's a mystery i want to leave to robert mueller of the special counsel. i do think that the trump we are
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watching is somebody that's wounded and reaches out to other and over turn the existing orders of things. you can see it in his business career. >> david, thank you as always. >> thank you, craig. >> more on that breaking news of president trump's former attorney, the fbi now has a secretly recorded tape of trump and michael cohen talking about a preelection payoff of the former playboy model. >> the nfl is putting its controversial national anthem policy on hold. the players' association and the league issued a joint statement to freeze the policy and quote, allow constructive dialogue to continue. the move itself is being called a win for players who took a knee this past season. we'll be right back.
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with his ten attorney, michael cohen, secretly taped, talking to a payment for a playboy model two months before the election. i want to bring in ari melber and ari, i want to start with you, you had breakfast with cohen a few hours ago. >> yes, i did. he reached out this last week and said let's hook up and talk. i have known him for 20 years. he's the guy that when you are fighting with donald trump of some issues in new york, he'll set up the meeting and he was the go-to guy for trump and he'll try to get everybody on the same page because trump would not get on the same page with us. he'll try to get a dialogue going. we knew each other and he was straight with us and he was always honest and even if we
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disagreed. >> his loyalty of the president has been well documented. did you get, i know most of the conversation is off the record. did you get the sense that somehow perhaps his loyalty has shifted? >> i got the sense that his loyalty is to his family and country. that's the direct quote. he said it one time or 20 times. which gives me the real feeling that if there is in fact things of this president did, he ought to be concerned. i think cohen made it clear to many this morning that he's not going to be some sacrificial land for something that was done wrongly. he clearly said that he's disappointed in the president where how he turned out and attacked him in the media and he was going to do what's right for
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the write patriotic. >> you get the sense that he's done a lot of soul searching in this. now, whether it is spin or not, i know from the last year that i dealt with him that he's a straightforward guy and he's looking for a break. he would say that on directly and getting on politics nation. i left there feeling that he's definitely going to say of what he knows and means when he says it. >> all right the president its on tape with michael cohen talking about this payment. you are an attorney, is it ridiculous to record a client secretly? >> did you say he was a rever d reverend? >> i guess practically you
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practice the law here. >> i do what i can. as usual, i will start bringing in insights and direct knowledge to the situation we are learning here in this moment on the news that michael cohen is telling people like reverend sharpen that today he's thinking of the country cooperating with prosecutors and not defining them. that's number one. number two, if the new york times story bears out that the recording was made, the legal question was why did the attorney record his client this way. one of the ways that you protect client's privilege is you keep it in your brain and not recording. that brings me to the final point. kanye west says i got a lawyer to keep within my safe. you knew the line. >> yes. >> the question is did michael
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cohen put these recordings in a safe or did he do it to protect himself. this is to protect himself which is fascinating and potentially bad news for the white house. >> while you were dropping some knowledge on us here, a source familiar with all of this again all of this is continuing to break as we report it here. eam eamon javers that the president was quote "unaware" that she was recorded. there are other tapes but the president's legal team are not aware of other substance tapes. >> that goes to the exact point. if the president was not aware that it would seem to be the kind of recording that was not made for trump's benefit as a client but made for some other reason. >> i think also when you read the new york times story that came out today about the tape,
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rudy giuliani, said well, there may have been some recording but no money was passed. he seems to have knowledge of what was on the tape. all i can say to quote another rapper "something, something just ain't right." >> second one to beat here. your attorney, rudy giuliani, saying that this is exculpatory evidence. what do you take of this? >> we don't know. he's making a claim that he can't possibly support if he has not heard the tape. that'll be the nicest thing. the other thing that i can say is rudy giuliani would seem to be making allegations or claims without regard of the fact that we see him do other at other ti this case.
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>> also, you have relationship with rudy giuliani and you have known him for a number of years. >> almost as bad as donald trump. >> to quote another rapper, it sounds like he's saying you are getting around in the sense of reporting. mr. rudy giuliani and his comments regarding this case would fly in the face of what the administration have said all along. hope hicks' communication director says the event never happened and we don't know what this is about. how can rudy giuliani acknowledge, yes, there was this phone conversation months after the administration in. nothing to see here. >> you are representing a client that stands in front of the world in hins elsinki and says thing and comes back and said that's it is just one word that he got wrong. they have to admit to contradiction all along. >> you say contradictions, are some of them out right lies?
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>> they are out right lies. in a legal proceedings you can't try to play word games or spin games. if there are tapes that in criminate anyway of the president, all exposes that they were absolutely lying because we don't know who mueller's people have interviewed. now you are in an area where this is not -- to quote the god father, "get ready for the big pay back." >> james brown here. >> who that al sharpton does not know.
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michael cohen is basically under skruting in the southern district of new york for allegations we know that is confirmed by under scrutiny in the southern district of new york for allegations that we know and we've confirmed were originally investigated by bob mueller. while this is happening the big question hanging over these other track investigations are did this international conspiracy ultimately involve americans close to trump on the other side of it. if it didn't, then it won't be that bad for the white house. if it did and if what we are seeing in this very unusual week where people across the spectrum, including many conservatives, said there is no rationale for u.s. security, while this news apparently is tightening in multiple probes in the united states, that is the big question. are there americans on the other side of that conspiracy? is in the only tape, michael
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cohen recorded donald trump in ways donald trump didn't know about. what else did he record? >> according to a source, there are other tapes. the white house is acknowledging, that, one source saying that. michael avenatti reminding us of something he said on our air on a number of occasions that there isn't one tape, there are multiple tapes. not to put you on the spot, reverend al. during your breakfast with michael cohen did he give you any sort of indication whether he spent time talking to the special counsel? >> he did not directly say that he had talked to the counsel, special counsel. he did not say he had not. he did keep reiterating he is going to stand up for country and family first and he wanted me to be very clear about that. and i told him i was going to tweet that we were having breakfast and found out he also tweeted that i was one that he wanted to talk to. so we'll see. stay tuned. >> i have a question that craig is too nice to ask. at any time did he try to record
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you or the bacon? >> there was no bacon. but if he recorded me, it will come out exactly as i reported it to craig because all of us know that you should be straight with craig melvin. >> always. thank you. that tweet, by the way, the aforementioned tweet from michael cohen, i have known rev for almost 20 years. no one better to talk to. going back it this "new york times" reporting nwhat does thi tell but the way that president trump handled his business, handles his business? >> well, i think this is the big problem. i don't think bob mueller will try to take measures or issue a report that questions the the legitimacy of a president. if there was old money-laundering or old real estate crimes or potential or civil or criminal violations, i
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don't think any of that will be something that mueller uses to go after the white house, but, but if the way he did business was so sloppy and so reckless and did touch on 2016 or collusion or russia or potential abuse of power, if that's what hand there are recordings of it i think that's within mueller's purview. >> the other point you have to look at when you talk about mueller is we keep hearing of the possibility of him actually interviewing the president. and if he has a volume of things that he knows and the president answers in a way that is untrue, if they in fact do ever have this interview, you talk about perjury, what is what has gotten other presidents into problems. >> i want to bring in washington correspondent ayman javers to talk about his new reporting on this development that the president was unaware that he was being recorded by michael cohen.
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what more can you tell us? >> i can tell you i got off the phone with a source familiar with this who told me exactly that. the president was unaware he was being recorded. this was a surprise to learn that he had been recorded. i can also tell you that the president's legal team is not aware of any other substantive tapes. they are aware of other tapes that contain innocuous commentary, things like, michael, could you please call me back? that sort of thing. that doesn't mean that other substantive tapes don't necessarily exist. it's just in terms of the awareness of the president's legal team at this point. >> unaware. did your source give you any sort of indication as to whether the president or those around him were mildly annoyed that these recordings were being made without the president's knowledge? >> yeah, i can't go any further than that. i don't have any reporting on the president's state of mind when he learned about this. i think as a human reaction anybody who had been recorded
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without their knowledge might be a little bit annoyed about it. that's just speculation on my part. the source not providing any information about what the president thought about all of this. >> did they characterize how many additional tapes they were aware of, even if the information on those tapes is, as you describe it, innocuous? >> yeah. the way the source described it as not aware of any substantive tapes, but they are aware of other tapes, plural, that contain innocuous things. you know, sort of the call me back kind of commentary. no information on exactly how many of those there might be. again, like i say, that doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility that other tapes exist. it just gives awe sense of exactly what the president's legal team knows as of right now. >> adding to the breaking news here. again, originally reported by "the new york times." ayman there from cnbc reporting that president trump did not know he was being secretly recorded by his then attorney michael cohen. more on all of this after a
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that is going to wrap up this action packed hour of msnbc live. katy tur picking up the hour right now. >> craig, i have my voice back. >> you sound better. >> i do, i feel better. >> i was concerned about you. you have a lot of breaking news to get to. >> it is 11:00 a.m. out west and 2:00 p.m. in new york, and lordy, there are tapes. we are following breaking news this afternoon. just months before the
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presidential election, trump's long-time lawyer michael cohen recorded a conversation with the then-candidate. the topic of that recorded call, payments to former play-by-play model karen mcdougal. mcdougal claims she had an affair with donald trump in 2006. the fbi is in possession of that call because they seized it in a raid on cohen's office earlier this year. the news comes a day after the special master in cohen's case rejected over a third of his legal team's requests to keep documents seized in the raid protected under attorney-client privilege. it comes amid a lot of speculation about where cohen's long and well documented loyalty to the president now stands. spoiler alert. what loyalty? according to someone with direct knowledge of him, michael cohen believes donald trump has thrown him under the bus. and now cohen, if needed, is ready to do the

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