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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  July 22, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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visit your local xfinity store today. that's our show for today. thanks for watching. "a.m. joy" will be back next saturday. next up, alex witt has the latest. >> you are so lucky to go out into the disgusting, hot, sticky weather outside. i get to stay in the ac. i'm glad for that for once, let me tell you. >> amen. >> all right, have a good one and a very good day to all of you. i'm alex witt at world headquarters in new york. high noon in the east and 9:00 a.m. in the west. an unprecedented release of top-secret documents.
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new reaction from a former trump campaign aide about his wiretapping in the russia probe. >> i sat in on some meetings, but, you know, to call me an adviser, i think, is way over the top. >> no fisa application has ever been seen by the public in the 40 years since that law has governed national security wiretapping. so it was -- it's an extraordinary spectacle, just in and of itself. >> also, michael cohen. revelations about his secret recordings, stormy daniels' attorney talks about what could happen next. >> this is not the only tape, i can tell you that for a fact. i think he's ready to tell the truth and ultimately, i think he's going to cooperate with us. >> he is not only unsure of what's going to happen, but he's incredible lia incredibly angry. this is something he feels he has collateral damage, and the president has done nothing to help him. plus, the new report you just have to hear about the accused undercover russian agent
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who may have given her financial support. the reporter who broke that story is joining us. but we have new reaction from carter page, the former trump adviser at the center of the newly released doj documents now pushing back on the surveillance application that he was an agent for the kremlin. here's what he said earlier. >> you did advise the kremlin back in 2013 or 2012, somewhere in there. >> jake, that's really spin. i sat in on some meetings, but, you know, to call me an adviser, i think, is way over the top. informal, having some conversations with people. this is really nothing, and just -- an attempt to distract from the real crimes that are shown in this misleading document. >> and the president taking to twitter several times this morning, in fact, claiming the surveillance applications proves the russia investigation is a witch hunt and a scam. some republicans on capitol hill are at odds over these fisa
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documents, as well as the so-called steele dossier, which the documents say was only part of the basis for the surveillance application. senators marco rubio and lindsey graham. >> i don't believe that, you know, them looking into carter page means they were spying on the campaign. i also don't believe it proves anything about collusion. i don't think it's part of any broader plot. the only plot here is the plot to interfere in our elections by the russians. >> if you ask the fbi today how much of the dossier on trump has been verified, almost none of it. >> but you say mostly, not sbirl. therefore, was the surveillance justified? >> no. if the dossier is the reason you issued the warrant, it was a bunch of garbage. the dossier has proven to be a bunch of garbage. >> more now with kelly o'donnell, national security analyst, "time" magazine. so kelly, following the president, of course, in his new jersey estate, the president
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with an active day of tweeting, which you've been chronicling for us. what are you hearing? >> a flurry of tweets this morning, alex. and now with a break in the weather that looks favorable for golf, one might presume that the president is on the links. we don't know that for certain, but that's a supposition. but prior to doing that, the president was watching tv this morning. that's reflected in his tweets. and the most recent one he has on his twitter feed is again referring to his helsinki meeting with vladimir putin. i had an all caps great meeting with putin and the fake news used every bit of their energy to try and disparage. it's so bad for our country. the president feeling particularly stung by the criticism of his lack of a forceful public condemnation of putin while standing with him in helsinki of russian interference, which is well-documented by the u.s. intelligence and law enforcement communities. and the president not understanding, it would appear, or not agreeing with the reaction to his handling of russia, especially in light of the high-profile meeting with
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putin and the invitation extended for putin to visit washington later in the fall. today, carter page has been making the rounds on television. what's interesting to remember about page is that the trump campaign at the time was one of 17 republicans vying for the nomination. really an outlier in many days in the early days. and they lacked any kind of foreign policy advisers, all the most credible, most experienced foreign policy advisers had already signed up with other campaigns. the senators and governors who were running. so the trump campaign was looking to have some people to put on a committee to advise. carter page and george papadopoulos. that's what we see in the documents that have come out from the foreign intelligence surveillance corps about surveillance on page. here is page speaking today saying that he just doesn't understand this document. again denying he's done anything
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wrong. >> you know, look, i mean, when i was there in july of 2016, you know, people -- a few people might have brought it up in passing. but, you know, again, it's a major economic issue. and, so you know, there may have been a loose conversation. i'm very careful in terms of, you know, making sure that there's a clear record. there is nothing in terms of any nefarious behavior. >> okay. >> and there he's referring to sanctions against russia, and was there conversation about trying to ease those sanctions in a future if he were successful trump presidency, long before we knew what the outcome would be. >> page says he handled that issue carefully. that was one of the prime areas that officials were looking at. would there be any kind of a deal made or an influence game on the front end to try to deal with sanctions, which, of course, were imposed for issues like russia taking crimea, that part of ukraine, and making it
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its own. and the meddling in the election that led to the expulsion of russian diplomats and all of the international drama we have seen in the months since. alex? >> all right. kelly o., thank you so much from berkeley heights, new jersey. we'll check in with you again. meantime, joining me, frank figliuzi, a former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi. good to see you, as always, frank. very quickly, because we have a lot of things to get to here. regarding carter page, the president tweeting this morning, department of justice and fbi misled the courts, and the trump campaign for president was illegally being spied upon. what is your reaction to that? >> so, alex, i never thought i would be saying this, as someone who used to head up counterintelligence investigations for the fbi. but i'm actually glad that department of justice released this document. it's unprecedented. we have never had a release of a fisa affidavit before, and it's worth reading for anyone in the public who just wants to see the behind the scenes work.
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but look, we now know that devin nunes has been lying to us because of the release of this affidavit. each and every time they have said that it was based substantially on the dossier, that they didn't advise the judge properly, that the dossier might have been flawed. that christopher steele was cut off as an fbi informant because of issues. all of that, each and every time, has been a lie, because this release shows us that the so-called footnote to the judge about issues with the dossier and christopher steele is at least a page long. we also see that each and every one of the renewals, the document gets longer. why does it get bigger and bigger? because they're showing the judge all of the good take, the productivity they're getting, from this wire. and by the way, you can get a fisa affidavit simply by saying that an american is being targeted. but they went a step further. this document says that page was actually not just a target, he was actually colluding, collaborating, conspiring with
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russian government officials. >> so then, frank, why has he not been arrested? >> so a couple things. first, a fisa affidavit, you're actually saying to the court, this is a counterintelligence case. we're not looking at this criminally right now. we're doing this for intelligence-gathering purposes, wrapping up a cell, identifying intelligence officers' methodology. secondly, you want to let that run, so you identify everyone. and lastly, there may be a strategy here, if they don't have the criminality yet on page, to hold off and indict and -- or if they do have criminal charges waiting, to indict americans after the russians in this collusion part have been charged. so the other shoe is going to drop here. but if carter page is telling the public that he doesn't get this affidavit, he's lying to us, as well. >> okay. let's get to what else i want to talk to you about which is stormy daniels' attorney who as you know spoke this morning about michael cohen, about that secret recording of the 2016 conversation with the president about paying off a former playboy model, who said she had an affair with trump.
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the white house denies any affair took place. but michael avenatti now says there's more than one recording. >> this is not the only tape, i can tell you that for a fact. there's multiple tapes. >> you don't know if there are more tapes of president trump, though. >> no, i do know there are more tapes of president trump. there's multiple tapes of president trump, number one. the president knew that his attorney, michael cohen, had a predisposition towards taping conversations with people. and cohen had shared tapes with the president along the way during the ten years of legal representation. >> do you know what's on the tapes? >> i know the substance of some of the tapes, yes. >> okay. your reaction to what you just heard. >> so we have to plan on the possibility and probability there's more tapes here. and let's not be fooled by the fact that trump attorneys have so-call so-called waived their attorney-client privilege for the segment of this one time. what's really going on here, they're saying, we've heard this tape. we don't think it blows back on us. but let's understand what that means. it means that the content of
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that very conversation may not be criminal in nature, but the context of it when the president says let's pay by check, what does he mean by that? check from what organization? what bank account? was it fictitious? would it be money laundering? would it be a federal campaign election contribution violation? so there's -- a judge -- a special master has ruled that that's not privileged? because it doesn't contain criminality, but the understanding between the two parties may very well be criminal in nature on how to execute such a payment. and if there's more tapes like that, it's likely that there is more dirty conversations than this one. >> okay. the president, as we look at what he tweeted yesterday, and it reads, inconceivable that a lawyer would tape a client, totally unheard of, perhaps illegal. is what michael cohen did illegal or unethical? >> so, look, new york state law permits one party to the conversation to tape the conversation. so number one, not illegal. number two, is it somehow a special criminal violation for
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lawyers? no, it's not. number three, could michael cohen face ethical or bar charges? yes. it's quite possible. but nothing about what he did is illegal in the state of new york. >> okay. i'm going to ask you to be a betting man, if you will, and give me some sort of a percentage on the likelihood that cohen flips on the president at this point, if there is something to flip on, we should say. 50%, 60, 70? what are you thinking? >> if the president of the united states does not pardon cohen in the next 30 days, michael cohen is going to flip on the president. >> that's a statement. so you say just with a matter of time, it's 100% certainty, in your mind. >> if he's not getting a pardon, he's flipping. >> okay. frank figliuzi. thank you. all right. jay, to you first and your biggest take-away with the release of the carter page fisa documents. >> it's stunning to see a fisa
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document out in the public. i've never seen anything like it in all of my reporting. and it's so fascinating to see how methodically they build these cases and how long the documents are. all the different sourcing of the documents. and i think it's also really ironic that the justification for releasing this document is trump's own sort of lowering of the secrecy standards, so that devin nunes and the house republican committee or the chair could release that three-page memo and his investigation into the russia sort of -- the charges of russia conspiracy and the election. and so it's really using their own justifications that this document ever came out or trump's administration's own justifications that this document has come out. so i think -- now this one has been released. >> and bob, with regard to president trump's tweets this morning, he says this fisa application once again proves that the justice department misled the courts.
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somewhat of a predictable response from the president. but is it accurate, given all we have learned today? >> well, it's something that trump can use to go on offense, certainly. and both sides are using the release of these documents to their political advantages. and both are making the case, as senator graham did. but also splitting the republican party. rubio defending department of justice. they have supported the mueller investigation and department of justice. so it was a very tough week for the president. so i think he just seized on something where he could go on offense as opposed to being on the defensive with his meeting with putin. >> yeah. that's like a pr spin or a political calculation. but in terms of accuracy of what we have seen today, is the president right or wrong? >> no, i think he's definitely exaggerating, without a doubt. there's no doubt about it that the nunez memo now is under a lot of criticism. adam schiff this morning, the ranking member on intel, going after it.
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and that's part of the reason, alex, i think these documents were released. rosenstein and republicans who are allies of trump in congress, they don't get along. so this is, i think, a really direct shot at that. and, of course, now trump is also saying let's remove all those redactions and make everything public. we'll see if that happens. i doubt it. >> okay. relative to the michael cohen recording, let's listen to a bit more of what michael avenatti said earlier. here it is. >> i think you've seen an evolution by michael cohen over the last month or so with the retention of lanny davis and others. i think he's ready to tell the truth. and ultimately, i think he's going to cooperate with us as it relates to our search for the truth. >> what's your reaction to that, jay? >> things are certainly getting interesting on that level, as well. and in speaking to those in trump world, they have always been much more worried about the michael cohen case than they have, frankly, about another case. because they're looking back now at ten years of where he worked with donald trump, where he knows where all the bodies are
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buried, where he did potentially a lot of shady things. and so -- and he had said earlier on, you know, i really would like donald trump to pay for my legal fees. donald trump said he's not going to pay for his legal fees. and this is a guy who has got to now basically choose, is he going to be loyal to the president or protect his own family. and every single time that happens, people always choose their own families, which means that it's going to be -- if he ends up cooperating with the government, he could really spill a lot of beans. not just relating to the russia investigation, or relating to stormy daniels, but all kinds of things. >> yeah. your thoughts on all of this, as well, bob. >> it's a real problem for the white house that michael avenatti and michael cohen are now becoming buddies. and as jay mentioned, that lanny davis has been retained. those are all bad signs for the president. and that's why the president has repeatedly gone after the whole seizure of cohen's records. because, as many say, this is more of a threat to him than
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mueller. and mueller certainly a threat to the white house. but this could be more. >> okay. got another topic to get to you guys with the reaction to the new statement that dan coats put out about his initial reaction thursday. we saw it when andrea mitchell broke the news about an upcoming meeting with summit number two, really, in washington. i'm going to read to you his statement in part. some press coverage has mischaracterized my intentions in responding to breaking news presented to me during a live interview. my admittedly awkward response was in no way meant to be disrespectful or criticize the actions of the president. to whom is that statement specifically sent, bob? >> i mean, you have to think -- when that statement comes out, you have to think, why did that come out? and certainly the president has reportedly been upset with that exchange between andrea mitchell and dan coats. a remarkable statement there. so you would have to think that word from the white house got to coats, ask that led to that
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statement. >> jay, your thoughts on that one? >> when he heard the news, he said, well, that's going to be special, in a way that clearly meant that it was -- i mean, almost sarcastic. and so he's clearly trying to pacify the president and say i didn't mean to insult you, i didn't mean to undermine your messaging here. and that, you know, i respect you as president. obviously he was the one who appointed dan coats as the director of national intelligence. so he's trying to walk it back and trying to manage his boss. >> jay newton-small, john cue zach, thank you so much. why vladimir putin wanted to interrogate michael mcfaul as part of what the president called an incredible offer. but our next guest says the president may not have committed tre treason in helsinki, but there are grounds for impeachment. guy! let's do this. (♪) okay you gotta be kidding me. hold on, don't worry, there's another way. directions to the greek theater. (beep)
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you don't want foreign influence. that doesn't mean that carter page had any role in the trump campaign, from what i'm told, he was a nobody on the fringe. >> former white house adviser to the president earlier today, trying to downplay carter page's role in the campaign. his reaction coming up on the heels of the unprecedented release of the fisa document. this one outlining how the agency justified its surveillance application. joining me now, democratic congressman, adam smith of washington, ranking member of the armed services committee. nice to have you back to the broadcast, and good day to you. i want your biggest take-away of
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the release of all of these carter page fisa documents, especially the way we saw how it was politicized. >> it's kind of shocking they would choose to release the fisa document. i'm reasonable sure this is ununprecedented. and it's clear the republicans were using this to try to make their point, and then they just said what they wanted to say, despite what the documents said. the documents make it clear, they had every reason to get the warrant on carter page that they got. and to investigate him in the way that they did. but, look, this is all part of the republican effort to undermine bob mueller's investigation and try to distract people from the facts, the very clear facts of russian interference in our election, and the very clear facts that people at very high levels of the trump campaign appear to have had interactions with those russian agents that were interfering with the election. those are the facts, and this document really doesn't change that. >> how much do you think the document actually weighs into the mueller investigation? how much will they matter?
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>> ultimately, i don't think it matters that much. this is really a small, tangential issue with congressman nunes and others trying to argue that the obama administration at that time and the fbi under the obama administration sought a warrant on carter page when they really didn't have reason to. but the facts showed they did have reason to. and the other big point that i always like to make is, they're trying to argue that this was done to undermine trump. this was part of some conspiracy within the obama white house to help hillary clinton, hurt donald trump. but they never said anything about it before the election. they kept it quiet. what this was, was a legitimate investigation about a legitimate concern that people very close to donald trump's campaign had close tie to the russians at precisely the time the russians were interfering in our election. if they had been politically motivated, they wouldn't have waited until after donald trump got elected. even then they didn't release
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it. this has simply come out later as part of the investigation. so it's very clear there was nothing political about the effort to find out what carter page was doing with the russians. so, you know -- but, you know, donald trump is going to keep saying what he says, whether it's true or not. >> so in terms of things that you have said, the release of the documents, of course, coming on the aftermath of the helsinki summit and all of this back and forth between the president and some of his comments. you have used the "t" word in telling the "seattle times" that treason might have been a little bit of hyperbole, but then you added there is no question in my mind the united states has the right to start an impeachment investigation. >> i was, like many americans, deeply offended by what the president did in helsinki. the way that he right there asked several point-blank questions, sided with a foreign adversary, who clearly interfered in our elections,
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over our intelligence community. told the world that our intelligence community was wrong and vladimir putin was right. and i think that the treason response was a little bit emotional, just coming so quickly after that. but the remedy when a president -- if a president commits crimes is an impeachment investigation. so mueller needs to do the investigation. the remedy would be impeachment, not treason or criminal trial. so i apologize for the emotional reaction on that front. but what president trump has clearly done is he has tried to stop this investigation into what the russians clearly did, and right there on the international stage, standing next to putin, president trump showed more weakness as a u.s. president than we have seen in a very, very long time, kowtowing to a foreign leader, who is not just trying to undermine america, he's trying to undermine democracy. it's his plan. he wants russia to have more influence and western democracies to have less. that's why he's interfering in our elections and i just wish the president would back our
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intelligence community up, back the fbi up in their effort to stop russia from doing what is such a clear threat to our democracy. >> and you know, interestingly, i want to play a few what republican congressman trey gowdy said about it this morning. here's that. >> the president missed, i think, a really good opportunity to distinguish the united states from any other country, but especially from russia. the united states of america were the victim. we were the victims of what russia did in 2016, and it ought to be a source of unity and rallying around the fact that we're never going to allow this to happen again, and we're going to punish those who tried to do it. and there was this equivocation during the press conference that i'm glad he corrected it, but when you're the leader of the free world, every syllable matters. and you really shouldn't be having to correct it. >> representative smith, your reaction to that. and does it suggest at all to you that republicans may start taking more aggressive steps, especially now the president is inviting vladimir putin to
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washington, d.c., right before we hold the mid terms? >> well, i completely agree with congressman gowdy. and that's what's so fraying about this. and i don't know why. there's a whole lot of speculation about why president trump has handled this the way he has. but trey is absolutely right. this is about the united states. it's not about republican versus democrat. it's not about whether or not, you know, donald trump's victory was great or small or whatever. as a democrat, i'll tell you, president trump won. he won the election. under our constitution. he is the legitimate president of the united states of america. he needs to stop worrying about that, and like congressman gowdy said, this is about america. this is about all of us, not democrat or republican. it's about whether or not we're going to have free and fair elections. elections that are free of foreign interference from russia. we ought to be united on that. instead, the president consistently undermines the effort to investigate, and stop russia from -- stop us from permitting russia from doing it again, which raises the question, why? why is the president doing this? and it just -- it just makes him
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look bad. he should come out as congressman gowdy suggested, and say, this is totally unacceptable and standing there on an international stage, he should have said to president putin, we know what you did, it's wrong, we're going to hold you accountable, and we're going to make darn sure it's not going to happen again. that's what the president should have done. i think republicans are just as frustrated as democrats that he once again did not do that. >> adam smith of washington, thank you so much. good to see you. >> thank you. a top intelligence official has some new thoughts on the president as he downplays this moment. >> the white house has announced on twitter that vladimir putin is coming to the white house in the fall. >> say that again? [ laughter ] ♪
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is it to you a sign that coats wants to keep his job, and if he's sticking with this administration, is he doing it out of a sense of duty to the president or the country? >> i absolutely do think that he wants to keep his job. when he was on stage in aspen, he actually sort of commented on this. he was asked about, you know, whether he had any plans to leave the administration or resign. and his response was, as long as i have the ability to see the truth and speak the truth, i'm on board. so i think one of those -- sort of the way that he framed the answer to that question suggests that he does want to stick around. but i do believe that it is more out of a sense of duty to the country than the president. during the interview with andrea mitchell, it was certainly candid, and sort of his frustrations with the helsinki summit were very much on display. but i think he likely sees himself as a bulwark in the intelligence community to sort of, you know, prevent future mishaps like what we saw in helsinki from happening again. >> well, his frustration was actually on display even before
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that interview with andrea mitchell, for sure. but i know that you wrote about dan coats in your most recent piece for "vanity fair," titled, if dan coats is resigning, he's going out with a bang. do you think that's changed now? does the president maybe not risk having coats leave, because there would be issues, how that would look? i mean, what are your thoughts on that? >> yeah, i absolutely think that if the president moved against coats, there would be a lot of pushback from capitol hill, certainly. i think what you really saw after helsinki was a very united front in terms of the gop in opposing the president. what you don't really see what often. and i actually did have a republican source on the hill confirm to me that this coming week when mike pompeo was scheduled to meet with lawmakers on the senate foreign relations committee, they were originally supposed to just discuss north korea and ongoing developments there. but after the summit, they added a second agenda item, discussing what happened in finland and what happened between donald
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trump and vladimir putin behind closed doors, certainly a source of consternation. and i think when you see somebody like dan coats, who really, you know, stood up for the intelligence community and was the most vocal member of the administration to really push back against donald trump sort of equivocation when he was standing next to vladimir putin, suggests that republicans would likely, you know, not be very pleased if the president tried to oust him in any way. >> here's -- let's take a listen to a bit of what congressman adam schiff said this morning about dan coats. >> the talks in helsinki were productive, but they were productive for vladimir putin. the reality is we have no idea what this president and our president agreed to. it's no failing on dan coats' part. the failing is the president hasn't described to his own intelligence chief what he may have agreed to in that private, two-hour meeting. >> so all of this put together,
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abigail, is coats able to effectively do his job? >> you know, it's really difficult to answer that question, because congressman schiff made a great point. one of the things that's been most difficult is we have seen this continuation of a very troubling trend, where we're hearing more about what donald trump and vladimir putin discussed during that -- over two-hour meeting from russia. we're not hearing anything from our own administration. >> right. >> and if dan coats is in the dark, it really suggests that everybody is. and i think that's certainly worrisome, when you look at some of the issues that, you know, could -- that donald trump could have made some concessions on when he was speaking with vladimir putin. and, you know, was viewed by many in the intelligence community, many at the state department, who i've spoken to, as out of his depth when he went toe-to-toe with his former kgb officer. >> staff writer for "vanity fair", abigail tracy, good to talk with you. why are lawmakers up in arms, even chanting on the house floor? ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people.
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a loud patriotic protest by democrats broke out in congress over funding for election security. take a listen. >> surely we can rise above pandering to party and putin to act on behalf of our freedom and our security. [ banging gavel ] vote yes on this amendment for your country! >> usa, usa, usa! usa, usa, usa!
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usa, usa, usa! >> pretty extraordinary display there. but even those chants didn't prevent republicans from voting down an amendment to add $380 million in federal election infrastructure funding for 2019. congressman dan kildee was on the house floor and described to me earlier the breaking point for both him and his colleagues. >> the idea that we would take down our defenses and not provide states and local governments with the tools they need to defend themselves from those sorts of attacks was -- it was too much for us to take. >> joining me now, sean henry, former assistant director and msnbc cyber security and national security analyst. i want to get to it here. i'm curious about the serious nature of this hacking threat to u.s. election systems. where are these systems vulnerable? >> well, alex, these systems are somewhat disparate. you've got state, local and
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federal election processes. and you've got to think about leading up to the actual election, all the many months and even years of work that's being done by campaigns. then you've got the actual pacs involved, the day-to-day voting on election day. and then post the election, you've got all the processing and the tallying of the votes. so this is a widely disparate process. that being said, the department of homeland security has recently designated our election process as critical infrastructure. critical infrastructure being those systems and networks that are so vital to the american way of life, if they were somehow attacked or disrupted, they would have a significant impact on national security. so the threat is real. and it goes beyond nation states. there are a lot of organizations, entities, adversaries, looking to disrupt our way of life, alex. >> so, sean, a microsoft executive was telling the aspen security forum that his company dealt with a tax on three 2018 election campaigns. is this problem too intimidating
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for the smaller campaigns, and should the government get more involved in trying to protect the candidates? >> i've got to tell you, though we've heard just in 2016 about election issues, this goes back many years, back in 2008 when i was in the fbi and the cyber division, there was an attack by china against both the obama and the mccain campaign. so this is something that's been going on for over a decade. i think that when we think about the capabilities of adversaries, what their tools and tactics are, what their specific motivations are, that it absolutely goes above and beyond the capabilities and the expertise of some of these smaller entities. when you think about counties and local organizations. and that the ability of the united states government with its many resources and its expertise, they can add a lot of value to help protect that critical election process. >> so deputy ag, rod rosenstein, has announced a doj plan to battle election hacking. there are six major threats, in his mind. and i'm going to go through them here.
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direct damage to computer systems. data theft. fraud schemes. extortion. blackmail. attacks on critical infrastructure. and maligned foreign influence operations. your assessment on that? is he spot on with the target there, and would that make a dent on the volume of attacks expected as mid terms roll around if they do invest in trying to foil anything from these sources? >> i think the deputy attorney general is spot on in terms of the type of threats. and he's talking specifically about elections. this is such a much broader issue against all critical infrastructure. electric power and energy, water, et cetera. in talking about specifically the elections, the u.s. government has a lot that they can bring to bear against these multiple adversaries. first they can bring intelligence that they've collected. to make people aware. the local agencies about who the particular actors are and what types of things they should be looking for. they can also provide expertise in terms of incident response, training and the like. at the end of the day, unfortunately, the government is
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not putting up sensors in the isps that are blocking all the malicious traffic. the local agencies are going to be responsible for deploying technology and detecting and disrupting these specific threats themselves. there is an awful lot the government can do, a lot more that's going to require a comprehensive process across all the agencies in the u.s. government, bringing our resources to bear against this most significant threat to our democracy. >> yeah. and less than four months to get it done in terms of the mid terms. sean henry, thank you so much. coming up, after so much debate of the president's handling of the helsinki summit, a new poll shows whether americans think better of it.
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other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. in my view, the fisa warrants process needs to be looked at closely by congress. the main reason they issued the warren was the dossier prepared by mr. steele. they never told the court he was a paid operative of the democratic party. the substance of the dossier to this day is a bunch of garbage. >> that's senator lindsey graham blasting the warrant of carter page. let's bring in the dean and msnbc contributor and msnbc
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political analyst. let's get right to it here. senato we just is heard senator graham's take. what's your view? senator, can you hear me? i would say that's a no since he's looking down at the moment. susan, to you. what's your view of all of this. >> it's important, as senator graham said, to look at how these fisa warrants are done. we know that this was signed off by four republican judges. we know that this was one aspect of what mueller is looking at. and i think that at this point, it's just another thing that is making a lot of noise, and a whole lot of noise, that are confusing people and playing right into donald trump's hand, frankly. >> as i was listening, susan, to senator graham, it was not lost on me that he can be a pretty harsh critic of the president on
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other issues. because of that, do you think it's more credible on this issue as a result? >> maybe, but we've also seen from senator graham that if there's a place he can agree with the president, he does. because that fisa warrant is is now out in the public, though heavily retracted, we see all the backup that was given for seeking it in the first place. we see the connection that carter page has. we know why part of it was the dossier, we know that it was mentioned that the dossier was funded by political donors. so we see a lot more. there is two ways of looking at this, and i think it just depends on which political lens you're looking at it through. >> i'm going to be staying with you because we're still having some audio trouble with howard, susan. so it was confirmed without a doubt that the fbi misled the courts. first of all, should the president be worried about whaet
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in the -- what's in these documents? >> i don't think the court was misled by our government. i see no evidence of that, and i think this is just something donald trump does to go into that deep state area. i don't know how scared donald trump should be, but i'm guessing based on the way he's acting, he's pretty nervous and doesn't like it and wants to make sure he can continue to discredit our government, his government, the one that he leads, the one who now he has appointed the heads of the fbi and the doj, and he's looking to just diminish it so whatever they come up with won't be necessarily easily believed by his base. i say just his base because i think everyone else will pretty much take something out of it. >> howard is with us, but i do want to ask you one more question, susan, how does someone like carter page get involved with president trump in the first place? >> the trump campaign, there
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were no real foreign experts who agreed to sign up. there was no intelligence. >> is that because everybody was with everybody else? there was 17 candidates, right? >> there was not only 17 candidates, but people did not think trump was a credible candidate and did not speak credibly in the field of foreign policy or intelligence. so that was -- it was easy to kind of be a nobody and get your way in. so he found a way in, and the president acknowledged his name up front. >> okay. howard, welcome back. >> thank you. >> let's take a look at this week with you, because lots of developments here in the president's orbit this week. okay, so first we have the summit with putin and helsinki. the revelations about the accused russian agent maria butina. now you have these carter page documents with fisa. does it feel like it's building in any particular direction? >> i think it's pretty bad when
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you have a russian agent that's associated with the right wing of the republican party and the nra. so that's pretty bad. secondly the fisa warrants -- the good thing about trump is he's a disaster as president but he's not that smart. so they release the fisa request, and it actually shows that it was justified, 400 pages of justification leaving alone the heavy redactions. so, you know, this just gets ridiculous, but it was a big week for the russians, and i think that an awful lot of people in this country are now understanding that trump is a tragedy for the united states. >> but look, let's look ahead to the president's summit with vladimir putin, the second one. there is a new "washington post" abc poll which found 50% of americans disapprove of the held sink i perfo -- helsinki performance. are you surprised this isn't resonating with more democrats? do you think this has any undue
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influence from what happens in the second summit? >> i think the american people are not ready to call trump a tra traitor, but i do think that what makes this such a bad issue for trump is he's clearly incompetent. he went to meet with kim jong-un. lo and behold, kim jong-un still has nuclear weapons and he doesn't plan on turning any bodies or remains from the korean war to us. he goes to meet with putin and then has to walk back all the things he said. this guy is not qualified to be president of the united states. but most people don't focus on foreign policy. and so i think the economy, which is not as good as trump says it is, but it's certainly not bad, although it's mostly helping the top 1%, that's something people are going to pay attention to. i think most people like the idea of talking to our enemies. what they don't like is having our enemies take advantage of us because we have an incompetent president. >> all right. it was good to talk with the both of you.
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next time we'll have audio all hooked up. have a good week until then. >> i just want to stay on with the producer after this so this doesn't happen again. >> okay, you guys in the control booth. thank you so much. in the next hour, the new report about the accused russian agent and who may have given her financial support. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges... how mature of them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪
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