tv MSNBC Live With David Gura MSNBC July 22, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
adviser, carter page. and the debate over that fisa warrant continues. former trump campaign chairman, paul manafort, set to stand trial just three days from now. what will that trial tell us where robert mueller's investigation is headed? and looming deadline. the trump administration now has just four days to reunite all migrant families. will that deadline be met, and what will happen if it isn't? we begin with the government releasing more than 400 pages of previously classified warrants related to the surveillance of trump campaign adviser, carter page. the heavily redacted documents describe page as an agent of a foreign power. today he is denying any involvement with the kremlin. >> this is so ridiculous, it's just beyond words. i've never been an agent of the foreign power in any -- by any stretch of the imagination. >> president trump has also weighed in on this, claiming the release of the documents confirms the justice department, quote, misled the courts in the
early stages of the russia investigation. joining me now is msnbc white house correspondent, geoff bennett, along with lynn sweet. she's the washington bureau chief at the "chicago sun times." katie fang. and anna restusia, warehouhite reporter. jeff, there was the release of these two memos and this document in full with redactions. that it would sort of settle the matter. help me understand the political cauldron in which this is playing out. i mentioned the tweet from the president. we've gotten statements from members of congress. this has not ended the political story surrounding this application for surveillance. >> that's right, david. look, this is far from settled. and this fisa application has really been at the heart of a largely republican-fueled controversy over alleged fbi bias against the trump campaign. so we saw today the president in a series of tweets try to make the case that these newly released, newly disclosed fisa application documents prove that
there was fbi bias against him. that this investigation was weighted against the trump campaign. so here are just a couple of tweets to give you a sense of what's on the president's mind. he says this about the documents. he says, as usual, they are ridiculously heavily redacted but confirm with little doubt department of justice and the fbi misled the courts. witch hunt rigged. a scam. and he adds, looking more and more like the trump campaign for president was illegally being spied upon, surveillance for the political gain of crooked hillary clinton and the dnc. so the president trying to make the case that the surveillance warrants of his former campaign aide, carter page, were politically biased, even though if you look at the nonredacted parts of the documents, you'll find sentences like this one over and over again. this was a quote. the fbi believes that page has been collaborating and conspiring with the russian government. not only that, the document makes clear the four judges who signed off on the warrant, all of them were appointed by republican presidents. so i think the president's statements today are really just
the latest indication, the latest instance of him being at odds with the justice department and with intelligence officials. >> lynn sweet, i'm holding the document in my hands. all 400-plus pages of it. i don't think laser printers in washington have been so taxed since the release of the 9/11 commission report. there it is. i want to get your perspective. i'll read a little bit from what it has to say about carter page. knowingly engaged clandestine activities, other intelligence-gathering activities for or on behalf of such foreign power, about to involve a violation of the criminal statutes of the united states or knowingly conspires with other persons to engage in such activities. and therefore, is an agent of a foreign power. we're trying to get a portrait here of the role that carter page played. with what relief do we have now? what detail do we have now as a result of this document? >> well, what is coming out now, is this the bigger picture and i want to add for context, carter page got on the radar of his agents as early as 2013 when his name came up as a potential --
as a potential target of russians trying to recruit spies, agents, intel in the united states. so i think that's important in knowing when this story started. and it's 2013, before trump even thought of going in a run for president. well, what we learned, unfortunately, isn't enough. because this is heavily redacted. so i don't know if anyone could really draw iron conclusions from it. but you learned that there was a probable cause that included disclosure that information from the steele dossier came from a source with an axe to grind, with a cause. but often we know as journalists and agents will tell you, people that give out information often have a reason for wanting to talk. what you use that information is for a path to the door, fisa court allowed agents to open the door and walk through it to see what's there. >> andrew, we've heard a lot from devin nunes, the chairman
of the house intelligence committee about this application. he sat down with brett bear of fox news back in february, around the release of the republican memo from the house select committee on intelligence. let's take a little listen to their exchange. >> did you read the actual fisa applications? >> no, i didn't. and this has been one of these bogus news stories that have been put out. so the agreement we made with department of justice was to create a reading room and allow one member and two investigators to go over and review the documents. i thought the best person on our committee would be the chairman of the oversight committee, trey gowdy. >> and here, be andrew, i want to get into just how extraordinary this is. he's talking about the way things were for those committees, how few members of congress got to see this document back when it was classified. the president of the united states declassified it, and then you had many organizations requiring -- sorry, filing for a request to get the thing released to the public. this is an extraordinary thing, to have this available now. >> yeah, it is.
it's extremely extraordinary, it's extremely unusual that the federal government, in response to a freedom of information act request, would actually release this document, even though it is redacted. 412 pages, a little bit of light weekend reading for all of us here. but we actually get to see the government's own thinking here. we get to see them basically justify this application for a wiretap. you know, like we were saying earlier, this is not going to by any stretch put to bed the sort of political in fighting both from the trump administration and from democrats. i mean, you saw a pretty remarkable statement from the president on twitter. he actually put justice and department of justice in quotation marks. he's, you know, going after his own justice department, his own intelligence community yet again after what he was criticized for not believing the u.s. intelligence community's own assessment about the degree to which russia meddled in the 2016 election. but in a lot of ways, i think the president wants to have this fight. it shifts the focus away from his disastrous week after the
meeting with putin, and i feel like he feels this plays to his conservative base. >> another shiny object here. katie fang, i want to get your perspective. talking about the political perspective on this. how about the legal perspective? this has been shrouded in such secrecy for so long, 40-plus years. your reaction to this being out here and how that changes this process, changes the conversation about surveillance going forward. >> i think it shows there is a transparency that the doj and the government is willing to do in this case to be able to put to bed some of the credibility attacks that have come from nunes, among others. the bottom line, what can we take away from this? you're right, it's 412 pages, heavily redacted. let's talk about the stuff that is disclosed to the american public. it shows clearly that christopher steele and the steele dossier that that information was set forth to four separate republican appointed judges for them to determine the credibility of the information that was included. and it says stuff like steele gave this information, he's been deemed to be reliable and that he was a credible source. but then it also says that he was retained to basically get
oppositional research or retained to get information. and that he eventually was suspended as an fbi source after making clear he had unauthorized disclosures to the press. and so nunes really made a big hype about this earlier in the year about the fact that there was this snowing that occurred to the court, and yet what it doesn't address, david, is the reality of the process. this happens all of the time in law enforcement. when you get a search warrant, an arrest warrant, you present facts through sworn affidavits. you set forth what you think is probable cause as the prosecutor or as law enforcement, and then it's incumbent upon a judge to decide if you've met that burden. it could have easily not been sustained. and yet we have four separate applications, four separate orders that are entered and each time those applications came before the court, david, it made it clear, the applications were clear. the basis of the additional new intel that came as a result of the proceeding surveillance. and so there was a vetting process that happened. it was not rubber stamped. and for somebody to claim
otherwise like devin nunes is wrong and legally, completely fallible. >> lynn sweet, where do we go from here? i should say, carter page has not been charged with a crime, even though this has been a two-year odyssey. he was on cnn this morning saying that he had no connections to the kremlin. where does this conversation go from here, lynn? >> well, i'll give a quick political analysis, and that it just stays in two lanes and the people who want to find fault with the steele dossier, i don't see how this -- these documents will change minds or people whose minds don't want to be changed on it. so in terms of the political argument, i don't think it changes anything. now, in terms of where you think this might be going legally and in the mueller probe, we don't know if at some point carter page will have some legal pressure put on him by mueller. and it may be that if we had seen all the redacted parts and if we know the fruits of the investigation, it may be that carter page is not a central figure in this, and then when we know everything, it might not
be. but he is -- partly because he's willing to come on tv and do interviews, he is one of the few windows we have into what's going on and his denial. i just want to point out one thing about denial about being an agent. sometimes people, as intelligence agents say, there's people who are -- i don't want to insult them by calling him a dupe. but a willing dupe, willing player. >> i was going to say before about him, yeah. >> people who don't understand they are being used. you don't get a business card saying, i am a willing or unwilling spy for a foreign country. sometimes that's what agents do. they insinuate themselves with people who can give them information they may not realize it. so there are many ways. one quick very important thing in this story. there is a difference between the charge of collusion, which donald trump says, you know -- there's no collusion. we don't know that yet. mueller's investigation is ongoing. we do know that there is russian meddling. look at the indictments last week. look at, you know -- i could go on and on.
but you've been reporting on this constantly. these are two separate things. let's not conflate them. >> good point. lynn, thank you very much. lynn sweet joining me at the white house. my thanks to all of you for the time on this sunday. the week after the helsinki summit, which was widely criticized, today president trump calls it great. new polling on that summit coming up next. your mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened.
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be our guest. want to save on mobile? just ask. want to demo the latest innovations and technology? do it here. come see how we're making things simple, easy and awesome. plus, come in today and ask about xfinity mobile. a new kind of wireless network designed to save you money. visit your local xfinity store today. welcome back. i'm david gura. the director of national intelligence is back peddling, a question about a white house announcement that president trump is planning for another summit with president putin caught him off guard. but in a new statement, dan coats says, quote, some press coverage has mischaracterized my intentions in responding to breaking news presented to me during a live interview. my admittedly awkward response, he writes, was in no way meant to be disrespectful or criticize the actions of the president. joining me now, kevin cirilli, chief washington correspondent.
malcolm nance, terrorism analyst, author of "the plot to hack america." kevin, let me start with you. this was a rather extraordinary moment on stage, at the aspen security forum. my colleague, andrea mitchell, interviewing dan coats, director of national intelligence. and it was a moment of real honesty. reacting to something he clearly did not know about. now we see him walking that back. i want to get your perspective on what it means about the degree to which he's involved in the operations of this administration, what it said to you about how marginalized someone like him might be in policy-making decisions. >> david, look, it looks like the head of the intelligence community is getting their news from president trump's twitter, just like the rest of us. but it's quite remarkable. because it really does show the growing tension between president trump and the intelligence community. it also just illustrates, probably the best illustration we have this week, of how quickly the president was articulating u.s. rousso relations following that
helsinki meeting with russian president vladimir putin. and it would also suggest that the president faced intense pushback, not just from top intelligence community officials for how he was communicating his positions regarding u.s./russian relations, but also from many of the top republicans, even republicans who have traditionally stood in lockstep with this administration. look no further than former speaker of the house, newt gingrich. >> malcolm nance, how has the political terrain changed in the last week since helsinki. bill crystal, long-time republican, writing for the "weekly standard," here's a tweet he fired off today. reading trump and some of his defenders are this morning, thanks to the infantilization of our discourse. the denigration of our institutions and indifference to facts and truth. that is not a statement embrued with much optimism. your reaction to it. what's changed since last monday. >> well, you know, there are two various -- how can i put it?
there are two factions when we're talking about what has changed. there is the people who are traditional, mainstream republicans who saw the helsinki summit as a shocking event. who really saw president of the united states supplicating to a certain extent to the president of russia, denying facts found by his own intelligence community, disparaging the united states government. and they were really shocked. the other hand, you have trump's supporters. based on everything we have seen so far, they don't care. in fact, they saw his meeting in helsinki exactly as he saw it. a rousing success, and that trump was playing 3 and 4-d chess and fooling vladimir putin and getting the best of him and why can't we all get along with moscow. so long as those two groups differ, it doesn't really matter. we on the other side who actually see things in a fact-based world have to come to the realization and understanding that trump's base,
37% of this country, absolutely don't care what happens, so long as donald trump tells him it's a good thing. >> kevin, after that summit, and you were there for it, for the news conference that followed, there were calls for members of the administration who were there with the president to resign, including there were demands in a newspaper out in salt lake city for jon huntsman, u.s. ambassador to russia, to resign. he's written a piece for the "salt lake tribune," saying, i am appointed by the president, but confirmed by the national senate. i am charged with representing our country's interests which in the case of russia are complex and often little understood. popular punditry is ill suited to describing the acts of courage, dedication and patriotism i regularly witness as chief admission overseeing one of america's most sensitive overseas outposts. i want to get your reaction to this. i'll go back to something i brought up in the last hour. you have a guy like ambassador john bolton, president's national security sizer who for so much of his career, a hawkish
stance toward russia and vladimir putin, and he has now been charged by the president of the united states as being the courier to bring an invitation to the president of russia for a summit here in the fall. >> you know, i think this is a great point that you're making. because there are two things that i would note. first and foremost. the if ifirst is with regards t policy. without question, the president's performance in helsinki was a change in terms of the political optics of how a sitting president of the united states communicates u.s./russian relations while oversees at a summit of this nature. but on policy with regards to the u.s. opposition to the gas pipeline, as well as with regards to not lifting sanctions, with regards to russia, because of their annexation of crimea, sanctions imposed under the previous administration, the obama administration, all of that u.s. policy remains the same. now with respect to ambassador huntsman's column, you did hear an intense pushback from
republicans, and i would note the republicans who came out against this case in point senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, the top republican in the senate who did hold a vote for a nonbinding resolution to say, hey, wait a minute, even the idea of president trump considering former ambassador to russia, mcfaul, to go overseas to be interviewed by moscow officials is a nonstarter. and right before that, sarah huckabee sanders of the white house saying that was not something that the white house was actually going to do. >> malcolm, last question to you. i'm going to summarize what trey gowdy, the outgoing republican congressman of the house oversight committee said. the president either needs to rely on the people he's chosen to advise him or they need to reevaluate whether or not they can serve in his administration. painting a picture of the isolation of this president, talking about the argument for jon huntsman stepping aside, because the views of the president are in keeping with his own. what that summit illustrated in real fine focus was the degree to which this president was going it alone, not paying
attention to experts. he's been so fond of not doing for so much of his administration. >> right. well, you know, trey gowdy, the key word there is outgoing. trey gowdy is an outgoing republican. so he feels that he can speak his mind now. again, that does not reflect the president's base, and it doesn't reflect the president. to be honest, donald trump has reduced the united states government to being his admin staff. to essentially, you know, writing down what he says, whenever he says it. and, you know, approving his travel claims. so for the most part, those people who think that they're actually guiding policy, and who think that they're maintaining the stability -- you know, of the united states within russia, including ambassador huntsman, who, you know, he's right. he is maintaining a very difficult mission. a mission made more difficult when the president allowed russia to get rid of 700 embassy support staff, and said vladimir putin was saving him money so that he didn't have to pay them. when the president speaks, that is the executable u.s. policy.
whatever else happens underneath that is people trying to play catchup. >> malcolm nance and kevin cirilli in washington, d.c., i appreciate it. even as president trump prepares for his next summit with vladimir putin, reviews are coming in for the one he just held. a new "washington post" abc news poll released today shows 50% of people disapproving of the president's performance last monday in helsinki. the president set off a political firestorm as we were just discussing when he praised a now scuttle deal that would have allowed the kremlin to interrogate u.s. citizens, including former u.s. ambassador, michael mcfaul. here is ambassador mcfaul earlier. >> here's where it gets scary. there is something called interpol, where they can go around in third countries and stop people like me. mr. browder, his book is called "red notice," because that's what you put in the interpol system, and he has been harassed for years by the russian government. >> ambassador -- that is bill
browder, putin's main target, the man who links everyone on the list, a financier, human rights activist and said he would be killed if he fell into russian hands and joins me now. thank you very much for the time. and i just want to mind michael mcfaul's twitter feed for a second here. something he tweeted earlier this week was, i did not ask putin to attack me and helsinki to raise book sales. he's just published a book. please stop with these cynical quips. having putin accuse me of committing crimes is a serious matter that will complicate my travel and work for a long, long time. this is something with which you're familiar and i want to get your perspective on this. being a target, as you have been, how has that affected your life, mr. browder? >> well, i have been a target of vladimir putin ever since 2012, when the magnitsky act was passed by the u.s. congress. i was responsible for advocating for it. sergei magnitsky was my lawyer, killed in russia. and since then, vladimir putin has been trying to have me arrested through interpol and
through other means to get me back to russia so they could effectively do what they did to sergei magnitsky, which is torture and kill me in prison. i've been put on the interpol list seven times, and it's required huge interventions from my lawyers, from other governments and from other people, pressuring interpol to take my name off the list. i was recently arrested in madrid, spain, six weeks ago on a russian interpol arrest warrant. and it was only after tweeting it out that there was such a political firestorm, the interpol intervened a few hours later and got me released. mike mcfaul is absolutely right to be concerned. there's a reasonably good chance that russia will abuse interpol in his case, as they have in mine. and it's true with the other people that putin has mentioned and put on that list that he wants to interrogate in response to the mueller investigation. >> we are now at the end of what was a very long week, and i'm sure longer for you and for mr. mcfaul, ambassador mcfaul, as well. it culminated with this 98-0
vote in the u.s. senate on this resolution, rejecting what the president of russia proposed at that news conference. i just want to get your reaction to the length of time it took to go from the president saying it was an interesting offer that vladimir putin put forward, suggestion that you could have a u.s. investigators go to russia to interview or inspect or work with these 12 individuals who were indicted by bob mueller in that indictment that was handed up last week in exchange for talking to you and others. your reaction to how long it took for the president to back away from what was offered. >> my reaction is not good to how long it took. there was an indecent proposal, totally corrupt proposal. everybody else rejected it out of hand within seconds. that should have been the reaction of donald trump. >> i read here from the editorial page of the "wall street journal." a warning to president trump. before he cuddles with the bear again, mr. trump out to say publicly that mr. putin will get no help from the u.s. against mr. browder. that if anything happens to mr.
browder, if he should fall for a bridge or be shot as he gets out of a car, the world is going to blame vladimir putin. is that something you're seeking as well? are you disappointed you haven't gotten something so forceful as that from the president of the united states or have you given up on that? >> i haven't given up on anything. i've been involved in this struggle for a very long time. fortunately, i live in britain, i'm a british citizen and the british government has come to my defense in a very robust way. in case of the british government, putin has approached the british government 12 times, and within seconds, they have rejected those approaches without any question. and i feel legally protected. but the "wall street journal" is right, which is that it's not just extradition that i'm worried about. vladimir putin is a cold-blooded killer. he has a history of killing his political opponents. i am a political opponent. and we have seen a lot of terrible things happen in a lot of different countries, in particular in great britain, where they have tried to kill
sergei skripal recently, and there's a very long list of other people that vladimir putin is responsible for killing. >> so there's the fear about what might happen to the person. also fear about what might happen to the policy. you mentioned the magnitsky act, the sanctions levied on russia. we have seen the magnitsky act has expanded to include other countries, as well. how worried are you about the policy here going forward? what is what happened in helsinki, what's happened since tell you about the longevity of that policy that many people think has been quite effective at crimping a lot of these russian oligarchs? >> the magnitsky act was not an executive order. it was an act of congress, which means to repeal the act would require an act of congress, which based on that 98-0 vote, supporting mcfaul and myself and others, i don't think congress has any intention of with drawing the magnitsky act. having said that, enforcing the magnitsky act is a responsibility of the government. and this government, the trump administration, has enforced it properly up until this point. they put high value targets on
the magnitsky list. now the next critical moment will be in december. that's when they add new names to the magnitsky list, and it will be very important to see whether they do or don't add any more names this december. >> bill browder, appreciate the time. thank you very much. again, at the veend of a see lo week. we turn to paul manafort after the break. his trial set to begin this week. what can we expect in the courtroom, and what will his trial tell us about where bob mueller's investigation heads from here? nds, colleagues, gathered here are the world's finest insurance experts. rodney -- mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it's a gift. and jamie. -present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? ♪ insurance. that's kind of what we do here. ♪ if his denture can cope with... a steak. luckily for him, he uses super poligrip.
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paul manafort's trial begins this week in virginia. he was robert mueller's highest profile catch so far. the chairman has been charged with money laundering, tax fraud and other crimes. the special counsel's team has close to 500 pieces of evidence on paul manafort, including e-mail exchanges with the former ukrainian president, statements from mercedes-benz of alexandra, photos of the putting green at paul manafort's house in the hamptons and photo of the pergola there. also plenty of overseas bank records. joining me to talk about this case, former u.s. attorneys greg braugher and dan goldman, msnbc legal analyst. this trial is happening, one trial of two that paul manafort faces. your sense of what we can expect as this gets under way this week. >> so this is the tax fraud and mortgage fraud angle. this is not the angle related to the unregistered foreign agent or money laundering or any of manafort's activities in connection with ukraine in the
2014 and preceding that. so this is what i would argue is the duller of the two trials. this is going to be a heavily documentary trial. there are going to be a lot of tax records and essentially what the government has to show is that manafort funneled this money from his activities in ukraine and did not disclose it and did not pay taxes on it. and then at the tail end in 2016 and 2017 when the money dried up, he used the properties you mentioned in the lead-in as collateral to get loans, except he lied on the loan applications. so that's essentially what this trial is about. i would expect to see a lot of those photographs you mentioned of the fancy cars and houses, because the rest of the trial is not very sexy. >> greg, i want your opinion on that, the sexiness of this, the portrait of paul manafort the government has collected. how easy a sell is this going to
be for prosecutors, do you think? >> dan is right. this is what we would call a document case. it's going to be dry. it's a complex investigation, but, of course, the challenge for the government, for the prosecutors, is to turn a complex investigation into a relatively simple and if possible sexy story for the jury at trial. i'm confident that this experienced trial team will be able to do that. but i see a relatively straight forward evidentiary trial when all things are said and done. >> how big a moment is this going to be, greg, having paul manafort in the courtroom? this is going to attract a lot of attention. a lot of the special counsel work is played out in documents. we have made hay out of a lot of the indictments. it's a big moment though, as it moves into the courtroom, isn't it? >> it always is. it's showtime for the prosecution team. they have been preparing for this. i wouldn't be surprised if they have engaged in some mock trial, mock jury sort of exercise that's not uncommon for big cases like this.
and so they'll be ready and it will be interesting to watch. >> dan, i want to shift gears here, focus on another big story here. that is the new-found existence of a tape of a conversation between michael cohen and donald trump, centering on karen mcdougal, former playboy model. there is a threat i want to pull on. michael avenatti, an attorney for stephanie clifford, stormy daniels, saying michael cohen should hand over these tapes, the tape should be made available. your reaction to that, what michael avenatti is suggesting happen here. >> i think that has a lot of public appeal. but i think this exposes a little bit of michael avenatti's inexperience, having not been a prosecutor and not doing much criminal defense work. because i can assure you that the prosecutors in the southern district of new york who are investigating this case and where i worked for ten years would be very upset if michael cohen released all those tapes and then decided to cooperate. you do not want your evidence in a criminal investigation to be made public prior to charging. because what happens is, when
you are talking to all sorts of different witnesses, they now know a lot of what the evidence is related to other people, and they may change or tailor their testimony to what they hear in the tapes. and you don't want that to happen before you charge someone. so while michael avenatti is right, there is an appeal to just release the tapes, release the tapes and the public definitely wants it. the prosecutors do not want that. and i'm sure that michael cohen's lawyers are telling michael cohen that, as well. >> greg broward, do you agree with that? and i'm also curious to get your sense of how things have changed now that we know the tape exists. your reaction just to the existence of this tape and what dan had to say about the prospect of releasing all of them, should there be more. >> i think, once again, dan and i are on the same page in terms of the way we see this one. it's an interesting development. it appears that as though there will be more to come. and this is a good example, if i might, of the concern that doj has had with respect to the
russia investigation. and that is, we have -- you have members of congress asking for documents that may -- may relate to the special counsel's equities, and doj has been reluctant as a result to produce documents that might be evidence in that ongoing criminal investigation. the subject of an ongoing investigation would always like to know as much as possible about what the government has. but it's just not appropriate and it's not the way criminal investigations are done. >> dan, last question to you. yesterday nbc news caught up with rudy guiliani and trump's legal team waived the right to attorney client privilege in light of the fact that tape's existence has been made public in the "new york times." help us understand why that would have happened. >> first of all, i'm skeptical that's accurate. >> i don't. >> i don't see any good reason to do it. even if you think the tape may be exculpatory, they don't know the evidence now. they don't know how it may fit in. it makes absolutely no sense. and i think rudy guiliani has proved that he's not that well-versed on the law, and he also has repeatedly made
misrepresentations. but if that is the case, i still think it's a terrible decision, because just the fact that donald trump was discussing the ami payment to karen mcdougal is very damning evidence against donald trump. he knew that there were payments made to hush people that he allegedly had an affair with. that is a further step than what we knew before about his involvement in a potential conspiracy to commit campaign finance fraud by paying off these people, which is an in-kind contribution in advance of the election related to the election so that the public didn't find out. and to this point, donald trump has denied any knowledge of either the stormy daniels payment or the karen mcdougal payment prior to the election. and if this recording is -- says what we are hearing it says, that's a fact that is very relevant to this investigation. >> dan, great to see you. appreciate it. dan goldman, joining me in new
york. greg broward in washington, d.c. president trump on twitter is again calling them the 13 angry democrats, claiming four more have been added, one who worked directly for the obama white house. president trump is likely referring to recent hire, jonathan krafis, who worked in the white house counsel's office back when barack obama was president. jonathan krafis is one of at least a half dozen additions to robert mooueller's team, all experts in their fields. up next, the rush to reunite. the white house is just four days to reunite all migrant families separated at the border. can the trump administration make that deadline? and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries
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crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be. this the trump administration faces a major deadline to reunite all migrant children separated from their parents. tomorrow status reports on reunification are due. on tuesday, the federal government and attorneys for the
families will make their case in court, and the big deadline is thursday, july the 26th. and as it stands now, 450 families have been reunited. 2,000 children are still separated. here now is the president of the faturo media group. let's start with that deadline. that thursday deadline. still a long way to go. your sense of how optimistic we should be that that deadline will be met. that the reunifications will happen by thursday. >> not optimistic at all. i mean, my sense from what i -- my reporting is that there isn't an urgency. it's not like they're working 24/7 to track down. there isn't -- this is what we've been hearing for the past several weeks, people on the ground report just not hearing a sense of urgency. and there isn't a plan. that there just isn't a plan. so i'm thinking, like, how do you make, you know -- i was like, it's like a 2,000-person high school that you're now having to figure out where each one of those kids is.
2,000. how do you even do that in a span of these many days? when they weren't keeping track? that's what's -- the saddest part. they didn't even care to keep track to begin with. >> i know that you and others have now been looking at those who were separated and have been reunited and, we're beginning to see in finer focus the real toll that that has taken on those children, on their parents, as well. help us understand that here, being separated for weeks, sometimes months at a time. what effect has that had on these children in particular? >> i don't think we know just yet. something that i don't think that people can imagine is that some of these kids, when they get reunited with their parents, apart from the trauma, they're going to hold it against their parents that this happened. we've heard this before. when a parent gets deported, and the child, instead of understanding the broader political context, ends up hating the parent, because why did you come here if you -- you know, that whole narrative of why did you do it if you knew it wasn't going to work out kind of thing. what we know is that physically, because we spoke to a neuro
scientist for our podcast, "in the thick," neuroscientists say there will be impact on a brain. there will be physical impact. how those kids react to that physical trauma, it's as if somebody cuts off your arm, maybe one kid figures out how to get along without an arm, but another kid will be permanently damaged because of the fact their arm was cut off. so we don't know. but i think if we just look at the faces of the children now that we're seeing being reunited, they -- it's not like they have little stars in their eyes. they're completely traumatized over the entire scenario. >> we're getting a better sense of what life was like in the shelters. this is something you have been looking at. there have been allegations of abuse, of children having to do chores under duress and difficulties within these centers. how in keeping is that with what you saw before this particular crisis unfolding so publicly? >> look, david, i was doing this reporting, you know, through
2010. so it was in the lead up under the george w. bush administration and then kind of went on steroids under the obama administration. the abuse has been there. the abuse continues to be there. these detention facilities continue to get fabulous audits from the people who are coming in to see whether or not they're being professional. so the places where i've been, where there has been rampant charges of sexual assault against women oftentimes by women guards against women. and then they just -- their contracts get renewed. so there is -- i guess for me, you know, when i think about this, i'm like, my god, we have been talking about sexual assault, we've been talking about the fact that children are put into cages. they're put into places, iceboxes, that we know women have been sexually assaulted, that men have been taken out back and beaten, children are put to work and told not to cry. this has been happening for the longest time. the difference is now is because
of these policies people finally are paying attention. but it's not just about these 2,000 kids. it's about the tens of thousands of families that have been ripped apart. >> good point to end it on. maria, thank you very much. and up next, taking the heat. secretary of state, mike pompeo, may find himself facing tough questions from senators over president trump's meeting with vladimir putin. he's just one of the stories to watch in this coming week, and it's one of the stories we'll focus on with our own beth fouhy, after the break. i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix.
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welcome back i'm david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. secretary of state mike pompeo facing a grilling on capitol hill as the senate foreign relations committee seeks answer on the trump/putin summit. it comes after mike pompeo cancelled a previous senate briefing on president trump's meeting in singapore. beth fouhy, senior politics editor, joins me now. what are you going to be watching for. you look at this event on the senate foreign relations committee's calendar about north korea. obviously something else has interceded in the last few weeks. how much of the focus do you expect to be on the helsinki summit? >> what i'm going to be looking for is how much frustration is expressed publicly by republicans as they are expressing to us privately about their complete being in the dark over everything that trump is doing on these major foreign policy initiatives. bob corker, the senate foreign relations chairman, has been pretty candid about saying it's time for the administration to step up, come up to the hill, let everybody know what's going
on. but he's retiring, as we know, david. so he's -- freedom is another word for nothing left to lose. he can just say that this is what he's looking for. privately, we know many republicans share his concern that the white house has been incredibly vague about any agreement that was made with president putin. any agreement made with kim jong-un last month in singapore. so this is a chance for the members of that committee to say, hey, let us know what's going on. the thing is, as you know, david, especially in this recent meeting with putin, it was one-on-one. private. the only people who were there were the translators. and it's not clear at all that he's even -- president trump has even informed his top people, like pompeo about what went down in the meeting, what they discussed, what agreements if anything were approached. so pompeo may not know either. so what we saw was bob corker, who had said he wanted pompeo to come up, do an all-senate briefing on the kim jong-un meeting. it got blown off repeatedly. this time he didn't even say we
would like you to come up. he said, you're coming. >> you had mike pompeo up in new york. he was there with the ambassador to the u.n., nikki haley, talking about this next summit. >> right. >> you're going to be watching these republican senators. are you also watching him? i mean, just the degree to which he's in keeping with the president, saying we had this dan coats moment in aspen earlier this week? >> right. >> where is he in that orb and what can you tell about that? >> pompeo is very well-liked by president trump. dan coats is a little bit more of a distant relationship. but pompeo has always been a trump favorite. so he's got a lot more rope with the president. so he is -- he's going to play a tricky role here. he cannot in any way say anything that's going to upset the president. on the other hand, he wants to maintain his own personal credibility with people on the hill. he too was a lawmaker on capitol hill for many years. so he needs to inform them to the extent that he can, show that he's in the loop with the president, but not do anything that's going to anger the president, stepping out of school, as dan coats perhaps to the president seemed to do at that aspen meeting when he spoke
to our andrea mitchell. >> kansas is the segway. we were talking about bernie sanders going to the midwest with alexandra cortez, here in the new york. they were going to campaign together for the first time. this was her foray on the national stage. you were watching that. how in keeping with what you expected was the event out there? >> it was, as you say, her first time out, particularly into red america. you know, it's a different thing to campaign in new york city as a dedicated socialist. same with bernie sanders, very blue vermont. they can sort of be those democratic socialists where it's perhaps fairly safe to do that. going into red kansas and mostly red missouri is another story all together. it looked like the event went very well. senator sanders was the big draw in most cases, as he often is. we've seen that now for years. that he is a magnetic draw and lots of people come out because they want to hear him, particularly young people. and so it was a good
introduction for her to sort of ride his coattails into these places. but then she made a very good speech herself in these places we saw and reported on. her argument is, working-class people are working-class people, wherever they are. whether they're in the bronx or whether they're in vermont or whether they're in kansas. and that some of these issues really are all agreed upon for people who are struggling economically. she and senator sanders, you know, with their very big government sort of approach to solving a lot of problems, has a lot of resonance for folks everywhere. doesn't matter where you live. we don't know whether that's going to be the case. >> i just want to ask you about the trickiness of the position she's in right now. she won the primary, faces the general election and is being thrust on to this national stage. does that always work out when somebody is sort of not swept up from obscurity, but is new to the game, still has this local race to win and now is becoming a poster person -- >> she has to be careful. she is a very young person. she doesn't have a lot of experience in politics. she's made a couple of gaffes in some of her interviews that she's had to kind of walk back a
little bit. so, yeah, she's got to watch it. she doesn't want to flame out too soon. there's always the danger of that, for sure. but this trip into kansas seemed to be a good head start. >> first foray. beth fouhy, senior politics editor here at msnbc. we'll be right back. ♪ ) okay you gotta be kidding me. hold on, don't worry, there's another way. directions to the greek theater. (beep) ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪ohhh can i get a connection? ♪trying find the old me
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eamon. back, buddy. >> i missed a very busy week. i feel like a lot changed in the week i was gone. >> another week. >> i know, but it seems like just another week, nowadays. hello, everyone, i'm in for yasmin vossoughian this hour. spy game. president trump doubles down on claims that his campaign was illegally wire tapped as the doj takes the unprecedented step of releasing heavily redacted documents that debunk his theory. sex, lies and audiotapes. who leaked the secret recordings between the president and his former fixer, michael cohen, regarding hush money paid to a former playboy playmate? new poll numbers show half of americans gave the president a big thumbs down over how he happen handled that meeting with vladimir putin in helsinki. but does it even matter? here we go. >> you did advise the kremlin back in 2013 or 2012, somewhere in there. >> jake, that's -- it's really spin. i mean, i -- i sat in on some meetings, but to
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