tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 27, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
with the impression that you want the moment to end. >> you want to end on a slow hand shake. >> like almost, you want it to end. >> that is true. >> where is lawrence o'donnell, is he going to come down? >> we made it. turns out silence can be powerful. a star witness. let's play "hardball." >> donald trump's lawyer, the friend he honored with praise now looms as the state witness against him. michael cohen says that donald trump, the man sitting in the oval office knew beforehand about his son and son-in-law and
paul manafort's meeting in trump tower to obtain from the russians on hillary clinton. repeat. michael cohen says trump knew ahead of time. good evening. i am chris matthews in washington. source a sources confirmed what cnn reported last night that trump's former lawyer and fixer that trump knew in advance about a meeting at trump tower in june 2016. the source told nbc news that cohen -- that meeting with russians has long been a key focal point in the mueller investigation. it involved three top campaign officials.
donald trump jr. jared kushner and paul manafort. information that would incriminate hillary which he was told was quote part of russia and his government's support for mr. trump. the assertion that trump had knowledge of the meeting before it took place suggest he approved getting help from a foreign power. that means trump's repeated claim of no collusion, it would appear that he would be more than willing to do so. knew about the meeting until it was revealed in news report last summer. asked whether he was awe are of it last july, he told routers, no. i didn't know. let's listen. >> did you know at the time that they had the meeting? >> no, i didn't know anything
about the meeting. it must have been a very unimportant meeting because i never heard about it. >> no one told you a word, nothing. >> nobody told me. it sounded like a very unimportant meeting. >> the revelation contradicts the president's son who said this after the meeting broke last july. >> a lot of people are going to want to know this about your father. do you tell your father anything about this? >> it was such a nothing, there was nothing to tell. >> donald trump jr. could now face legal jeopardy because in his testimony before the judicial committee he denied saying i never discussed if with him at all. donald trump saying in a tweet i did not know of the meeting with my son don jr.
joining me now is eugene, shann shannon pettypiece. i want you in that order, what does that tell us about trump? >> well, number one, this conforms to everything we knew about donald trump and donald trump jr. except for the denials, we had the denials but what we know about donald trump and what we know about his son and desire for his father's approval and the relationship, the way the organization worked and the way the campaign worked, it seemed inconceivable that he didn't know probably before that meeting and certainly right after, there are those phone calls. we know he made phone calls to a blocked number right before, right after the meeting. >> blasted out that he had some dirt.
>> significant that there is a witness now who is going to say i was there at the meeting where he was told. >> i think it brings him closer to the co-conspirator. that was the phrase, if he knew about this meeting then he could have been involved in any conspiracy that could have come out of it. there is a lot of if's there. >> what are the if's? if there is collusion. >> what about the intent to get dirt on hillary. >> so intent -- >> his son and his campaign manager showed up for this russian to get dirt. >> intent is not enough to be a crime. this emphasizes that there is so much about this investigation that we don't know. we don't know what various witnesses are saying. we don't know what is in
e-mails. and mueller does. each piece tells us how much we don't know and how much twists and turns that are going to be ahead. >> the fact that trump has prior knowledge of the meeting aligns other. at the same time his son was scheduling that meeting, just two days before the meeting itself, trump promised in his speech that he would soon reveal something big about hillary clinton. here he goes. >> i am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week and wee agoing to be discussing all of the things that are taking place with the clintons. you are going to find it very informative and very interesting. >> there was a big tease. additionally as donald trump jr. was planning the meeting, he had two phone conversations with somebody with a blocked number. we know from other witness
testimony that trump senior has blocked phone lines in his primary residence. trump thought he was getting juicy dirt on hillary clinton and the fact that he may have been working with his son. >> a lot of people are saying, we need corroboration from michael cohen. i think he has corroborated what we already know. i look at this evidence as a career federal prosecutor. and the first thing i thought of when i saw the e-mail string, when you have don jr. receiving e-mail information that says russia wants your father elected. the russian government is in your father's corner and they are ready to provide you with dirt. human nature would tell us that he would have run to his
father's office. pop, pop, russia wants you to win. human nature tells us he had to do that if he didn't know that russia was already in pop's corner. if he doesn't do that, what can we infer from that that he already knew that russia was in pop's corner. and this is just another day at camp collusion. either way you cut it, it is bad for don junior and for the president. >> rudy giuliani was saying this about michael cohen. >> he doesn't have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. >> that was wrong and that was in may. but now that cohen is willing to say that the president knew about the meeting, giuliani's tune has changed. >> he has been lying all week. he has been lying for years.
nobody that i know that knows him that hasn't warned me that if his back is against the wall, he will lie like crazy. >> criminal lawyer with a bad case. really bad situation. malcolm, tell me what you think. you are an expert on this. and putting it together, what we now know trump knew before, the fact that the son-in-law, the son, and his campaign manager had a command performance. tells me it wasn't just a lead they were working on. this is the big show. let's get to that room and that russian. >> it absolutely has to be that sequence of events. there is no way that donald trump would have made a statement about a speech with information forth coming without some press yen of what is going to be happening. this is not camp collusion. this is camp conspiracy against the united states.
even though they didn't receive anything, they went in fully intending to get dirty tricks information from a representative from the crown prosecutor of russian, with a gru russian intelligence asset former agent in the room. this thing is barely below he s is -- espionage. he may have the date that trump told him of what was going on and maybe even knows. who knows at this point. but all we know is this. trump had to have known. there is no way. you know, his son is not like general dreedle's son in catch 22. pop, i don't know what is going on. >> michael cohen is drawing a straight line between the president and potential
collusion with russia. new report is connecting more closely to the kremlin. informant to the top official. tied to the agency of the russian state quote scores of e-mails and transcripts and legal documents paint a portrait of natalia as a well connected attorney who served as a ghost writer. >> i want to go back to jeeugen. the people around president trump who support him politically, will support a shooting on fifth avenue at this point. what more evidence are you going to get. they are going to say russia is more our friend than the deep state. >> there was collusion in plain
sight that we have been talking about. don't forget the cover up, the obstruction of justice. trump drafting the falstatement the plane. >> which he said he didn't. >> which he said he didn't but of course he did. and he had been, i believe they have been laying the groundwork for, no, collusion, no problem. it was fine. it was worth it because we kept hillary clinton from becoming president. however, there is that conspiracy against the united states thing. >> i think they knew they did something wrong and because they acted like, maybe they read something called the logan act or something. not supposed to be negotiating foreign policy. >> sent sean spicer and other officials saying he didn't talk about sanctions and then it turns out that they did talk about sanctions. the same thing about the statement, then the story
changes. looking at the defense, obviously discrediting the witness. protect trump. he didn't know about it. i didn't know about it. maybe something going on down here, but i didn't know it. >> he can't throw his son under the bus though, and son-in-law. manafort is already is under the bus. >> vanity fair reports that -- as an attack on him. if anything he appears embolden by the escalating confrontation to trump. spoken about a treasure trove. this is something, a treasure trove of information that he says he could unleash against the president. there is a lot more to come.
there are three more cases. we are hearing all of this stuff. there is always more here. >> i think this is going to be something of an indictment palooza when it is all said and done. the open questions that remain, are, what form does bob mueller's action take moving forward. is it going to be a report to congress, a series of indictment, and if it is, does it name the president as an indicted co-conspirator, an unindicted co-conspirator, that makes -- >> can he indict family members, top aides to the point that everybody in the public realizes this isn't bridge freelancing. to the point where the president, he is just burned up by it. >> bob mueller can and will indict everybody that the evidence supports indicting. he is driven by one thing, a rule of law.
i learned how to be a federal prosecutor by him. he is governed by the rule of law and the rule of law alone. he sees this evidence of criminality and he is going to do the right thing. >> the titanic has hit the iceberg. more time for you next time nance. the summit is off, it is on. and i don't get. this is he completely in charge of the president? if you are wondering who is in charge of us from protecting from meddling. keep wondering. latest report. looks like the dems are going to get the house. and the "hardball" roundtable how michael cohen went from fixer to state witness. and how the boss is reacting behind the scenes. let me finish with trump with a much and this is "hardball" where the action is.
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president trump took a victory lap of sorts on the south lawn after the gdp numbers. trump touted the republican tax overhaul saying americans are getting far better paychecks. that is despite showing real income and growth has slowed and remain stagnant. some economists say the gdp may have been artificially inflated in this quarter by a flood of exports as country races to stay ahead of a potential trade war. we'll be right back. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪
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trump from continuing his pro ma -- bromance with vladimir putin. the two are jockeying their next face to face meeting. in a statement, white house press secretary. you remember last week president trump invited putin to washington but that was put off. john bolton explained the delay saying the next bilateral meeting will take place after. >> there is something off putting about the fact that our
president being so willing to accept the beckoning call, the siren song or whatever of vladimir putin. he says come on over and trump says, well, i can come over there, isn't he still pending an invitation from this president. isn't he still supposed to say, i will come to washington first before you invites him there. no respect from that little guy to the american president from what i can see. >> he is dissing him over and over again and getting away with it. >> look, leaving all of that aside, vladimir putin seized crim crimea in violation of law. we can't go to war against russia, but this is hanging over. and secondly, donald trump has been briefed that vladimir
putin. meet with him and have a lovey dovy summit. neither seems appropriate. >> what do they want? start with putin. why do he want to be in the embrace or company of our president? >> clear that when he sits down with the president, he gives him his talking points. when they stand together otherwise, it is trump saying the russian talking points. scripting trump on montenegro. on the u.s. exercises with nato. and it is disturbing when the president stands next to putin, he doesn't seem to remember what the american national security priorities are. >> that is a good point, why would they take this side of the argument, well suppose little montenegro which is nowhere near
the russian border, couldn't exercise or respond to article five which we go to the rescue of any member of nato. why would he take a wacko argument. why would he do this? it is a rhetorical question. he seems to be working for the russians. your thoughts. >> we don't have proof of that. but i know of no rational explanation. trump is a guy who is willing to get into fights with canada. he wants to be tough with other countries. tough on trade. a lot of supporters are glad about that. but why wouldn't he be tough with russia. unless you take into the candidate that he is in theory, with vladimir putin. >> well, russia is not a great power. i know they are meeting in
johannesburg with other meeting powers. and why do we treat them as equal. not as equal. trump treats them as the other great super power. that is out of date. >> after reagan, and after the fall of the cold war, russia deteriorate deteriorated with power. they wouldn't qualify being in the g8. >> 19 months into his presidency, no coherent trump administration strategy to combat foreign election interference. today president trump. late tate the white house released a statement. he was tolerating.
he won't even hadmit it happene >> i have talked to a lot of current foreign officials. i can't find anybody who has seen this strategy. and they are pretty sure it doesn't exist. even own cabinet officials are saying, look, they are trying to do things that they can do. to combat foreign election period. but they need a whole of government strategy, presidential leadership that would unite. some of these problems are really hard. russian interference on twitter and facebook, first amendment issue there. the only prayer we have solving it is through presidential leadership and we are not seeing any of that from donald trump right now. >> comes just days after he tweeted he was quote very
concerned that russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the up coming election. based on the fact that no president has been tougher than me. according to forensic analysis, russia hackers have targeted senator clare mccaskill. hackers went after her last august. let's listen. >> we must lower our taxes. and your senator, claire mccaskill. she must do it for you. and if she doesn't do it for you, you have to vote her out of office. >> confirmed the daily beast reported while this attack was not successful, it is ourntrages
that they will get away with this. putin is a thug and a bully. putin and trump are double teaming claire mccaskill. it looks like that. >> whether or not the president is aware what the russians are doing, it is coincidental. that at the exact same time then the russians start attacking. >> who is the monkey and the string and who is the guy with the organ grinder. >> thank you. up next, 100 days out from the midterms now. the tea leaves are looking good for the democrats. are those predictions overestimating the public's concern with russia. this is "hardball." the democrats are taking the house. and going to pick up at least 30 seats. i have said it before.
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again, democrats to win control of the house. force to defend 42 open seats. that is the national poll among women and independents. republicans are in store for something like a shaellacking. what tells you of all of the leading indicators, that it looks like the dems will grab the house. >> two ways of looking at it. the macroand the micro. and the macro is looking at ballot test. and the other is the micro approach. and right now, democrats need a 23 net seats to gain a majority.
there are 34 republican seats that are toss up or worse. this is, i mean, republican majority has been in danger for well over a year. and it's pretty serious. i have been saying maybe a 65% chance maybe of democrats getting the majority. now, it is closer to 70%. democrats look in line to pick up between 20 and 35 seats. the odds of hitting 23 are high. >> how many people in the democrat versus republican side are anxious to get into that voting booth? >> that is one of the findings in the "wall street journal" poll, something like 63% of democrats on a scale of one to ten rated themselves as tens of interest. and 48% of republicans.
fox news asked are you less than enthusiastic or less than normal and they showed a democratic interest. it is flashing, remember lost in space, danger will robinson. it is flashing danger for republicans. >> didn't want to face it, just get out of the business. >> a lot of times if you have a choice, do i want to have to raise, and beg a lot of money and go through an ugly campaign and maybe i win, maybe i lose. or, hey, i could just bail out now. a lot of people choose the exits. and a lot of them are due for it anyway. but, you know, a disproportionate number of retirements is a leading indicator of a party having a bad year. >> i get a sense this is going to be a blue wave and also red
wave in the conservative states. and tester, and certainly donnelly in indiana. and mccaskill in missouri. where in the eastern suburbs a blue wave in philadelphia for example. >> it is as though the house and the senate are being fought in different countries. the house and competitive races are in the suburbs and start in new jersey and eastern p pennsylvania and go out to california. the senate, it is small time rural america. we could see three quarters of a billion dollars spent on the u.s. senate. meanwhile republicans could be losing their majority in the house. >> during his interview with
sean hannity, president trump previewed his plans for the midterm election. let's listen. >> the economy is the strongest ever. and i am going to work very hard, i will go six or seven-days a week when we are 60 days out. and i will be campaigning for all of these great people that do have a difficult race. and we ving we are going to bring them over the line. so i believe that because we are doing so well as a country and so well with the economy, i think we are going to be surprising a lot of people. >> do you think the president expresses knowledge there, i know, as you just said, he can help in places like montana, indiana, he could help in the red states. but any help in the pennsylvania suburbs? i wonder if he should stay the heck out of there. >> if i were him, i would keep
the president out of competitive suburban districts. he could do republicans good in deeply red states. states that trump carried by 19 points there. he could do a lot of good there. and he could do a lot of harm in in some of these suburban districts where his numbers are awful. if i could just caution, the republican problems in the house preceded the russian investigation. this is not being driven by russia. and there is a danger of people hyperventilating. i think the russian investigation, the mueller investigation is serious stuff and should be pursued. but the recent msnbc "wall street journal" poll, 46% think the investigation should be continues and 38% think it should be ended. and 16% have no opinion.
the democratic base, and people who watch a lot of cable are exercised about this. i have been in 18 states so far this year. you get outside of the beltway and outside of the democratic base, and people who watch a lot of cable, they are not talking about russia. >> i have been through watergate and you have too. i think the investigative reporters, the good reporters of the major newspapers and the serious political figures and most importantly investigators decide what history is going to be made. thank you. i agree with you about the politics. up next, breaking up is hard to do. especially when you are talking about a business mogul and his fixer. on the outs right now and that is putting trump in an uncomfortable position. watching "hardball." making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts.
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became aware of this very recently right before this came out and that's when he was notified. his lawyers talked to him about it right before. and between, president has been very clear on that. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was jay sekulow a year ago discussing when the president learned about the infamous 2016 trump tower meeting with the russians. michael cohen has indicated that donald trump did tell his father about the meeting at the time. contradicting what the team has been telling the american public. let's bring in. no collusion, no collusion, but yes, collusion. >> well, when you look at this, and you see this kind of falling out with michael cohen between president trump and this is the damage that could happen with president trump. right now, you are talking about
michael cohen saying he heard this. or that he has knowledge of this and that other people do. and that is going to raise more questions and even if there could be legal implications obviously, but even beyond that, this idea that did the president tell these bold lies that he didn't know about this and then come out with evidence that he did know. i think that would be a big deal even for this president. >> i got some good stuff on hillary coming up. and all of these phone calls back and forth on these unidentified phone calls with his son and the common sense tells you all three people in the trump lead, the chairman of the party, chairman of the campaign and his son and son-in-law. all came in as if the president didn't have anything to do with it. >> it is inconceivable that donald trump jr. didn't take the russians up to see his father or
even tell him about the meeting. and the media has caught the president and his staff in a series of lies as you point out, whether the president was aware of the meeting or whether he had any roll in crafting the public statement and he says he didn't and then he does. this is a president where fact checkers have been cataloging his lies for the duration of his term and they are in the thousands. yong t i don't think they are going to take what he has to say, and they are going to look at the evidence. we are trying to figure out who is the bigger liar, michael cohen or president trump. and that is a tough game to play. for years, cohen lied at trump's behest. and we see the president make
false statements ever single day. it is tricky for prosecutors. >> or it turns out that john dean in water gate everything that he says in his memory shows up on the tape. all of these women he got rid of, he knows everything about trump. trump must be dying with this person out there. >> i would go with trump as being the better liar, the more consistent liar, if he breathes, he lies. and mueller is not going to just have to rely on michael cohen. michael cohen could be just a corroborating in this meeting. junior is not calling meetings without telling pop. >> no way that michael cohen can lie because he is a state
witness. if he gets caught lying, he is finished. he goes to jail for 20 years. not long ago that president trump only had prostive things to say about michael cohen. >> i have also liked michael. >> he is a talented lawyer. >> i mean, they got him on one of the other. how do they do this? >> they can't go with that one. >> the president probably doesn't feel the same way today. look at the president's tweets. at one point, at no point by the way does he directly reference michael cohen by name. according to the daily beast, trump will often stop using people's names if he is convinced they are current cote or if he suddenly finds them --
they're dead to each other. this is god father. >> there is a thin line between love and hate and it seems like they have crossed over. but president trump is known for falling out with people. but in this case, there could be repercussions. and what does michael cohen know. and even if he feels like i don't want to say his name. he doesn't have to say his name. >> in that first video, to me, it is a divorce reference where we are breaking up, but we have the greatest respect for each other and give us our privacy and later, it is through rudy giuliani one of the biggest liars in the world. but michael cohen -- >> first of all, they are going to divide the books. >> michael cohen is in that no-man's land no. where he lost donald trump. he is never getting a pardon. and he has not yet gotten
mueller. >> you never know who you are going to run into waiting for a plane at the airport. take a look at this photo showing special counsel mueller. what do you make of that? this is d.c. >> this is still a small town. everybody knows the pain of 35 x at reagan. and you saw that picture. and you wanted to know. it doesn't seem like either was aware. >> spotlighted it here. there is donald trump with the baseball cap and there is robert mueller. >> in the tip o'neill days, it was a small town where people treated each other with more civility because they might run into each other at dinner or at
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we are back with the "hardball" round table. tell me something i don't know. >> you mentioned the npr poll that came out. everybody is looking at support or supporter opposition to row -- roe v. wade. the group most supportive of overturning roe v. wade is actually republican women more so than republican men. 43% of republican women want roe versus wade overturned. >> wow. >> so chris, being a summer intern sometimes sets you on
your career path in government. but if you look around, most of the interns particularly on capitol hill are from white and wealthy families. >> we pay our interns here. >> good for you. >> most people in psychic income. you are going to make a world a better place. >> resume material. >> yes. but this week, the democratic congressional campaign committee decided to pay a stippen to interns. interns that look more like america. working class kids getting a leg up on a career of government. >> that is only a few. i used to be working there. eli? >> this week with michael cohen in the news. i spend a lot of time talking to people in new york. and i was reminded by one of them of why it is that michael cohen did not wind up going to washington with president trump and joining the administration. the person who was the most
opposed to it and in the president elect ear at the time was jared kushner and people who want to talk about his political instincts, but now, given the estrangement, given the legal consequences and the fact that this is the same guy who greased the skids to get rid of comey, a lot of people saying this is jared kushner and few strikes in terms. >> you made the wrong enemy. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you are watching "hardball."
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trump watch friday july 27, 2018. what trump calls a witch hunt has now caught a witch. his son was about to seek dirt on his rivals. consider the corruption this uncovers. shows donald trump more than willing to collude with a person offering herself as a kremlin agent. it shows trump doing what he has denied relentlessly. showing covering up this grey
matter for months. why have the trumps about so ready to meet with russians upon request. to this very day. putin is in a small country economically, a pathetic land in many ways. why does donald trump snap to so readily at putin's call. why does an american president disrespect our country's old friends, play bellhop to the tyrant in the kremlin. it is embarrassing. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> he will lie like crazy. >> is the fixer flipping? michael cohen's dirt on the president and the infamous trump tower