tv Meet the Press MSNBC September 30, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
that does it for me. join me next week at 5:00 p.m. to break down major stories of the week reach out to me as always on social media. i'm going to hand it back to my colleague. playing a little tag team. >> we'll catch you monday through friday as well. enjoy the rest of what you got there, my friend. new developmentmes to tell you about the investigation into brett kavanaugh.
christine blasey ford has not yet been contacted by investigators. this comes after ford's attorneys told "the new york times" they have not heard from the fbi despite repeated efforts to speak to them. all of this happening as the white house is placing the blame on lawmakers for any limits on the scope of the federal background investigation. >> they have free rain. they'll do whatever they have to do. whatever it is they do. >> the white house is not micro managing this process. this is the senate is dictating the terms. >> for more, let's bring in nbc's jeff bennett at the white house. jeff, okay. so it's been ever moving here. question being who's on the list that we know about? and who is not on the list? >> great to see you, richard. there are reports that the fbi spoke with deborah ramirez today in the investigation into supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. nbc has not yet independently confirmed that. but we have confirmed that the fbi has not yet contacted dr. christine blasey ford. it doesn't mean that they won't.
but they haven't yet. meanwhile, president trump and senior white house officials are pushing back against our reporting that the white house has laid down ground rules for this new fbi background investigation into the sexual assault and misconduct allegations leveled against brett kavanaugh. democrats have said a limited investigation could taint kavanaugh and the confirmation process, criticism about which president trump is saying in a tweet, wow, just starting to hear the democrats who are only thinking of obstruct and delay are starting to put ott wout thd that the time and scope of the fbi looking into judge kavanaugh is not enough. hello. for them it will never be enough. stay tuned and watch. after our story broke, the president told me on the white house south lawn that the fbi should have free reign to do whatever they have to do. he sent out a tweet late last night saying the same thing. but two high level sources tell our colleague that his comments and his tweet have not changed
the limits imposed by the white house counsel's office on the fbi investigation. the fbi has received, we're told, no new instructions from the white house about how to proceed with this week-long investigation. n white house officials say they are not micro managing the process. that may be true. but they're certainly in charge of it. because this is not an fbi criminal investigation and instead an fbi background investigation, the white house in calling for the probe sets the parameters. that's how this process works. the white house has steered julie swetnick and kavanaugh's alcohol use may be off-limits. you can understand why there are concerns that limiting the investigation could play a role in determining what if anything the fbi finds. >> what do we know about the would you say counsel and his role in all of this, if any? >> as the white house counsel, he and his team of advisors are in charge of setting the
parameters and telling the fbi effect who they can and cannot inview. when you hear white house receiv officials say it's up to the senate and fbi, they say it's really up to don mcgann and his team to lay the ground rules for any fbi background investigation. in in case, the reopen the investigation into brett kavanaugh, richard. >> wrap up on the latest on what nbc can report at this hour in terms who have is on the list and who is not or spoken to or not. jeff, thank you so much there at the white house for us. let's bring in "new york times" congressional correspondent cheryl gates, former senate judiciary committee staffer, loo he issa grav -- lisa graves and ets risk management operator and frank faglusi. he is also an msnbc contributor and nbc news national security analyst. the longest title we got for you today here. frank, kick us off, if you will.
we know from jeff, right, who is contacted in terms of what we know right now. who has not been. what do you take from who is on the list that we know of at the moment? >> so i think this is very important to talk about. there's every indication tonight that there are tight handcuffs being placed on the fbi. if this were going to be a broad, deep inquiry into kavanaugh, we would already be seeing multiple people being interviewed. you would already be hearing reports of that. the fbi would be surging hundreds of agents in various field offices to tear through records, photographs, dorm records, payroll records at a safeway, finding the house in suburban maryland, documenting the construction of the house. we hear none of that happening. en that -- and that is a bad sign. the president says the fbi has free reign that is he is not
being truthful. despite the fact that president is pointing his finger at the senate, the direction to the fbi's coming directly from the white house and there is not even evidence yet tonight as you are reporting that dr. ford is even on the list to be interviewed. >> cheryl, reflect on what frank said there. and what are your sources telling you in terms of who is in the discussion about who will be contacted? who will be on the list or not? >> so what our reporting shows is that senator mitch mcconnell, the republican leader gave don mcgann the white house counsel a list of four people to be interviewed. those four people are deborah ramirez who had accused judge kavanaugh of exposing had him is environmental to her when they were freshmen at yale, mark judge who is the good friend of judge kavanaugh who christine blasey ford says was in the room when she was assaulted. p.j. smith, another friend of judge kavanaugh and leeland
kaiser, a friend of christine blasey ford who christine says was at the party. so that's what we know. the fbi presumably is working today to interview those people. i think there are very big questions about what will happen if those people raise names or incidents that ought to be further explored. how much will the fbi have -- how much leeway will the fbi have in pursuing other leads? we know, for instance, that julie swetnick who made allegations that judge kavanaugh was involved in sexual misdeeds, gang rape in high school, is not someone to be interviewed but mark judge supposedly is to be interviewed about julie swetnick and about her claims. i guess its big question is how wide will this investigation spread? and one thing that i would note is that the white house is characterizing thises
characterizing this as a background check. that is different from a criminal investigation. so we also have expectations that are set differently for a background check. >> john flannery, make those distinctions between background check, criminal investigation as was just noted by cheryl. >> i conducted an investigation into whether the fbi withheld information from the senate labor committee and the confirmation hearings of ray monld i don't kn -- raymond donovan. what they withheld in the investigation under the direction of the white house, reagan's white house, it appeared they withheld the fact that there was a tape from my old office, a wiretap, showing he was mobbed up. en that was withheld from the committee and therefore compromised the ability of the senators on the committee to advise and consent to the nomination. similarly here. no background investigation that was serious as it was regulated by white house counsel mcgann before the hearing and then we sat on a railroad as we tried to
exclude any pause that would allow members of the committee, the judiciary committee, to look at the thousands and thousands of documents. and then they beef about the fact that a senator on the committee respected an individual's confidentiality and then when it came out they attacked her for not revealing it sooner. so from the background investigation is at the direction of the white house which is a serious flaw. and the investigation should be whether or not this nominee assaulted women sexually including but perhaps not limited to dr. ford. and they should follow a lead as best they could in the week that they had and they could assign what agents that they needed to get it all done right. >> lisa graves, as we look at the process moving forward, we just getting word in that senator dianne feinstein who is ranking member on the senate judiciary committee has just sent this letter here to don mcgann. just within -- well, what we
know in the last five or ten minutes. and in that letter, she is requesting certain pieces of information. specifically she is saying here that chairman grass sley is requesting a supplemental background investigation with the nomination of judge kavanaugh to be an associate justice of the supreme court. given the seriousness of the allegations before the senate, i am writing to questirequest to e the committee with a copy of the written directive sent from the white house to the fbi. if the fbi requests any expansion beyond the initial directive, please provide the names of any additional witnesses or evidence. so this being your former beat here, lisa, what do you make of the ranking member here, senator dianne feinstein putting this out on twitter and saying she is reaching out to these two very influential individuals? >> i think it is proprly appropriate for senator feinstein to make that request
and i think that request should be honored. you have an extraordinary situation in the colloquy between the senators on the judiciary committee on friday it was clear that this was a time bound supplemental investigation but zinld to lodesigned to look into the credible witnesses, the credible allegations against brett kavanaugh. en that would include all three women in my opinion. you have the sworn statement of jul jul julie swetnick and dr. ford's testimony. that is not enough. all of that should be included along with any witnesses that they suggest and any witness that's really come up as part of just looking into it. it shouldn't be limited by don mcgann. i think it's highly irregular in many ways for this to be limited in any way in terms cof which witnesses can be spoken to. they've been trying to orchestrate the deep sixing of the truth. what the fbi does and what it does well is do an investigation where it follows every lead that needs to be followed. and that's what needs to be --
that's what needs to happen here just as james comey wrote today in the "washington post." that's the job of the fbi. and if anyone is obstructing it, that should be stopped. >> and why don't i read a little bit of what james comey did say in an op-ed in the "new york times." in part, once they start interviewing, every witness knows the consequences. of course, the bureau won't have subpoena power but most people will speak to them, refusal to do so is its own kind of statement. frank put that together with james comey and what he just said. i'm talking about dianne feinstein's letter there to don mcgann and ray as well. >> yeah, i think we need transparency here. i think the american public and the judiciary committee needs to know exactly what the directives were from the white house to the fbi. what handcuffs have been put on? why are they not being allowed to do what they need to do? and if the fbi comes in and says we want to interview additional people and additional leads, the following accusers have come in,
survivors have come into our field offices and reported information. we would like to take the statements. we need to hear that and the senate needs to know that. >> and, cheryl, reflect please again. dianne feinstein, the ranking member here, she will will show the letter again. nicholas fanned tweeting it this out. this coming from the ranking member. is this about transparency what frank is saying? >> it is. democrats are very upset that they were cut out of the discussions that led to the white house directive. i was done only by republicans on the judiciary committee. i talked yesterday to senator dick bloomenthal. he said we need to know the scope of. this he indicated that the democrats were going to be getting together to try to draft some response. i gather that this is the response from senator feinstein, the top democrat on the committee. but democrats feel like they have a stake in this and, you know, they deserve to know too. >> all right.
cheryl, thank you so much for stopping by on a sunday p lisa, john and frank, we'll see you shortly. thank you for being here too. coming up, how the kavanaugh-ford hearing impacted women and sexual assault victims across the country as they brought their own stories forward in an unprecedented way after this. after this
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you're allowing somebody to sit in the supreme court. >> you're telling all people in america that they don't matter. they should keep it to themselves. if they told the truth, they're just going to help that man take power anyway. that's awhat you're telg all of these women. look at me when i talk to you. you're telling me that my assault doesn't matter. what happened to me doesn't matter. >> perhaps the most played interaction after the testimony from brett kavanaugh on the hill this past week. two sexual assault survivors there con fronting senator jeff flake inside an elevator. it's a scene that's becoming more and more familiar unfortunately. survivors speaking out about their individual stories. that's the important part. and using the experiences to bring about change from workplaces across the country to the highest court. a new vice on hbo documentary is exploring the issue of consent. what it means in the me too era.
the producer is uche lisually b the camera but no the this time. she decided to go public with her own story. >> i remember when i was about 18 and that was the -- there was a guy that is a friend of mine who i just thought was the most beautiful person in the world. and we had gone out one night. we were drinking a lot. and it wasn't until i kind of turned around and saw him naked and he started taking my clothes off and pushing my head down that i realizeded that i really not a tiny part of me wanteded to do that. it's only really now that this moment of cultural reckonning has come about that i think so many of us are thinking about our own experiences and our own sexual encounters. >> she joins us now. when you watch that, it takes
you back. >> why did you decide that this was the right time? and now that you have told your story, what is your reflection on having told it? >> yeah. i mean it's been a pretty tumultuous year, i think you would agree, over the last 12 months or so since the harvey weinstein allegations started coming out. this is a documentary that we've been working on for the last few months. it seemed like a pretty opportunity time to talk about this. we asked women to come in and share the intimate moments. it only felt fair to declare my own story up front, declare my own personal biases, of course. and to try and move foefrd arwa talk about how sexual con sent plays out in our lives and beyond what is happening in hollywood. >> it was about the headlines, it was about transparency and about your own story. all of those together in terms of why decide up front i want to say that i've also gone through this experience. >> sure.
yeah. i felt like it was -- i needed to say it. i also felt like i wanted to move on from that. and still apply my journalistic credentials and explore sexual con su consent and why there is misunderstanding around that topic. >> we're going to get to that. you have moved on then? >> have i moved on? >> you said you wanted to try to move on in a way being a survivor by telling the story. so the question, is you know, after you have gone through this and now so many people have seen this approached you probably to talk about the story, too? >> yeah. >> has anything changed? >> i think in some ways it helps to address it. i think i like a lot of other survivors have for a long time kept it to ourselves and i think that that's one things that come out in the last few days that a lot of people do. there's a lot of issues that come up in terms of self blame and in terms of regret and not
wanting to relive the traumas. and so, yeah, i think now that we are coming to this moment of cultural reckoning that in some ways does it help to share that. and in some ways it is comforting to know people that have been through the experiences and terrifying to know that so many people have. >> and it's not right for everybody, right? >> of course. >> i want to play more from the documentary. let's watch. >> and so by default, everyone believed you. and you didn't have to do anything or change anything and you got to keep everything the way it was and i had to leave everything and leave everybody. >> in addition to hurting you that night and causing that trauma, i had ten years of opportunities to right that. and i -- i -- i discarded you in this process. >> there are survivors facing her attacker, right?
what is called reformative justice, right? and that session that happened right there, how important is reformative justice in those sessions? >> i mean, so restorative justice is a very simple concept which is trying to facilitate a dialogue between in this case a sexual offender and the survivor. and it is essentially trying to allow the survivor to take the driver's seat and to talk about their own experiences, to talk about the impact that that has had on their lives and in this case the survivor that we spoke to here had harrowing details of the impact it had caused huge ptsd for the last ten years. she considered committing suicide. and it allowed her to say that to the person she really wanted to hear it most. and to ask the questions that really only that one person could answer which is why did this happen? how can we stop this happening again? so it really allowed her to feel
heard. i wouldn't say that is the solution for everyone. it was just interesting that this is one alternative solution to the criminal justice system which as we know doesn't necessarily do justice in all cases to cases of rape and sexual assault. >> what would be one of the take aways that you now had having gone through this documentary, having to talk about this topic very openly personally as well as objectively? what is one of those? >> it's incredibly complex topic. it's very uncomfortable for me personally to talk about. i know that for a lot of people to talk b it about. it is also important that the topic of sexual con sent is playing out in all of our lives every day. and so it's important to know that so many other people have been through similar experiences. it's also important to know that there are alternative options out there for coming to some form of solution and to move
this conversation forward. >> thank you so much. correspondent and producer, i appreciate you sharing your story. we appreciate you sharing the difficulty and the complexity of what this is all about. and there are so many parts to it and we're all trying to learn a little bit about it. >> it's a very nuanced conversation. i appreciate you having me. >> any time. you can catch the documentary on youtube or hbo go or hbo now. do look for that. coming up, with control of congress on the line, the president hits the trail to rally the base in favor of kavanaugh. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there.
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a vote for judge kavanaugh is also a vote to reject the tactics of the democrat party, mean obstructionists, mean resisters. for the last 18 months, democrats have spent every minute trying to overturn the results of the last election. >> president trump rallying supporters ahead of the mid terms. voters to decide who will win control of the house and senate. and the outcome may hinge on what happened in the supreme
court confirmation fight. let's bring in if a political consultant and president of capital strategy, scott bolden, former chair of the national bar association, kevin surilly for bloomberg tv, grace crowell for new york one. kevin is wearing specs today. quickly to you, my friend. what do you make of where the winds are blowing now? right? 37 days. we just spent a full week talking about nothing but the supreme court. and another week, one might guess, also the headline, not necessarily good, some might say, for one party or the other. >> i think that's a great point. look, president trump campaigning in west virginia in a state that candidate donald trump carried by 42%. and this, of course, is the same state where the centrist democrat from west virginia is in a tough re-election battle.
i think that's where this gets really interesting. everyone is going to have to wait to see what the fbi investigation yields. and then people have to make up their minds. but this is going to be a tough, tough vote for senators. but for very different reasons, i think. >> grace, you and i were talking about this. i think there is -- i was counting. there is some six states that started in person. some of this is already baked in. what is going to happen next week? it's too late jake, right? >> yeah. the contours of this fight are already clear to the public. but in new jersey, which is not far from where we are right now, they started voting on september 22nd. so people had been casting their ballots there and n. races long before they heard the testimony of kavanaugh and his accuser and so they are having to make up their minds beforehand. but i think that they know the contours of this fight. but as kevin was saying, there is still a big question mark
over what happens next. we don't know what the fbi investigation is going to yield. and that additional week that they are spending looking into these allegations is another week in which additional allegations may surface. and we may hear if it's not allegations, we may hear more public statements from people who went to school with brett kavanaugh, high school, college, who may have stories about his drinking, his partying that may undercut some of the testimony that he delivered before the senate judiciary committee. so there is a lot that can go on over the next week. and people are going to be making decisions. some may decide to hold off until they know how this shakes out. >> okay. what we're watching, of course, are polls at least for now. that's all we got. when you look at the political report, right, that's one example in terms of how they've moved four senate seats into the tossup space. we have, of course, the balance of power in the house as well. many are saying it's going to go left. but when you're talking about this topic of brett kavanaugh,
is it better than talking about the mueller investigation? that was our topic for weeks upon weeks. this might be better for republicans. >> well, i'm not so sure about. that even before the kavanaugh hearings, the poll showed that kavanaugh's support among republican women had plummeted 18 points. that should send all the republicans into a panic. if you're a woman still supporting trump at this point or his agenda or anything he's doing, you're pretty hard core. so to have 18 -- 18% drop in support for kavanaugh among republican women, which dropped the entire support by 11 points. and this was before the hearing. i think this could get a lot worse for republicans. we know that there is some funny business going on with this investigation with, this fbi investigation that don mcgann limited it so it's going to be very difficult to get any evidence that's going to matter. if the women start catching on to that, i think it could be a
big problem. you know, men in general, i think, underestimate the impact of this sort of thing on women. sexual assault, sexual harassment, the me too movement is very real. i think that huge drop among republican women has to have republicans in a panic. and i don't know if trump himself could really close that gap. and, again, as you noted, there is going to be more coming out with the press. people will be coming forward. so this is far from over. they're not going to be able to sweep it under the rug. i don't think it is something that's going to help them. >> as the back and forth has been going, the republicans have accused the democrats, especially on the the senate judiciary committee, of playing politics here, potentially taking it too far. i want to play a little bit from senator lindsey graham and his comments about that. >> you're trying to portray him as a stumbling drunk, gang rapist who during high school and college was bill cosby, six fbi background checks over the
years would have uncovered this. what we will investigate is who in dianne feinstein's office referred dr. ford to miss katz. >> scott, your reaction? >> yeah. you know, this whole narrative has been driven by the gop. the democrats have been put in this political prism. but the reality is that dr. ford has been telling this story since 2012. and she reached out to the dems. she wanted to be anonymous. it was only until it was leaked at the end of the nomination here that dems then said, okay, we are where we are. put it in the political prism. take us away from what is really important in regard to dr. ford and a number of women, millions if not hundreds of thousands of wanting to get to the truth. and the republicans seem like they just want this nomination approved. the democrats want the truth. and all of the women who have suffered in silence in connection to sexual assault or
sexual misconduct want the truth. >> yes. >> if we get to the truth, then you vote on him. if he gets in, he gets in. if he doesn't, he doesn't. but these women are still going to vote come november 6th. i think they're going to be a big part of the blue wave. >> blue wave. grace, is there a red wave too? the question that's going to be asked for at least another 37 days is which side is more energized? who is getting out the vote more? >> i think initially the democrats seem to have the wind at their backs right now when it comes to brett kavanaugh. here in new york we just had a democratic primary for governor for a number of statewide offices turn out in that primary was more than double what it had been four years ago. and everyone, most democrats, were crediting president trump with that saying, look this is a result of the 2016 election. democrats are so engaged. they are so energized. and that was before we were talking about brett kavanaugh and the allegations. i think there is a lot of energy
on the democratic side. there are very specific democratic senators who have a different set of political questions that they -- and challenges they have to deal with in states that went with president trump before. but i do think that the democratic base is deeply energized. i think women are going to play a key role in november. >> you know, kevin, when we look at the midterm egg timer, is it just too late for the republicans to come forward with a -- another nominee if this nominee for some run does not come to pass? is that potentially one of the bolts of energy that is pushing the republican party to push this particular nominee? >> i think that's a great point n fact, when i talked with sources last week on capitol hill and both the republican and democratic party, they noted that mitch mcconnell would like to see this get voted on before october 1 of the when the supreme court reconvenes. that is now a mute issue. but then before the midterm elections. and that -- we'll have to wait and see if that happens. either way if this were to happen in the lame duck session, then there becomes an even other
type of political tumult. the next judge in line is judge amy comey barrett. she is viewed largely as much p more conservative on the issues of marriage equality, issues of abortion rights then someone like judge kavanaugh. so that is another set that is more problematic for centrist republicans. and very quickly i note just how the different types of democrats that have been lekted thelected we've seen in the midterm elections, they're different types of democrats. >> quickly, sherry. >> look, i think that we're going to see other polls coming out that are going to make it look very, very bad for trump and for the republicans. and once this goes -- and we also know that marge judk judge to do this confidentially. one people start making guesses that judge is saying things that are not favorable to kavanaugh,
i think it's possible that he sud l suddenly decides he doesn't want to have anything to do with this. won't be talked to. they know he lied in front of the senate and they're kchd he would lie to the fbi. you know what happens then. that's why don mcgann wants to make sure the fbi does not talk to kavanaugh. >> if i may jump in real quickly, richard. it may not be about the democrats or the republicans on november 6th. watch the independents, the suburban women and those disgusted with donald trump and how the senate hand thld nomination, wheth -- handled this nomination. i think it's going to be critical in every state. they're going to vote with the democrats. >> all great points made by the four of you, scott, sherry, kevin, and grace. have a good sunday. >> thank you, richard. >> coming up, we bring you the other big stories making headlines around the world. including the climbing death toll out of indonesia running in the hundreds following that catastrophic earthquake next. ca.
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we'll look at other headlines today. 832 people have now died following the earthquake and tsunami in indonesia. that number is expected to climb higher. rescuers are still struggling to reach survivors and several coastal towns due to damaged roads and down communication lines. it's now very, very early in the morning as sunrises. so far there have been no
reports of americans impacted there. soccer star renaldo now faces rape allegations. according to the las vegas police, he's accused of raping a woman at a hotel in 2009. renaldo says the allegations are not true but the sun newspaper is reporting the pom was paid more than $350,000 to keep the incident quiet. europe claims victory at the 2018 ryder cup. two years after the americans thought the ryder cup problems were figured out, europe reminded them why it has owned the match for the past quarter century. u.s. favorites tiger woods and phil mickelson both lost their matches. when we come back for you, the kavanaugh investigation. what should the fbi really be looking at? former fbi official and msnbc analyst is back with us to tell us exactly how he would run this investigation. and the president says he did not watch it but millions of
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only when you book with expedia. will it be a credible investigation? >> that's going to be the big outstanding question. to limit the fbi as to the scope and who they're going to question, that -- that really -- i want to use the word force, but that's not the kind of investigation that all of us are expecting the fbi to conduct. there you have it, the senator of hawaii on the senate judiciary committee answering the question will the fbi be able to conduct a credible investigation?
nbc news reports the fbi has not received new instructions changing the limits imposeded b the white house counsel on the reopening of the background investigation into the supreme court nominee brett fbi to inte they deem appropriate at their own discretion. so if it's up to their own discretion, the areas they might look into, what might they be? i'd like to welcome back our panel. lisa graves, john flannery and frank fliguzi. if you were to run the investigation, what would be the areas and the process that you would undergo? so let's start with the first one with you, frank. you say first of all, attempt to corroborate dr. blasey ford and deborah ramirez's allegations. expand on that. >> this isn't rocket science. this is a surge of resources that the fbi is outstanding at doing, but the clock is ticking right now, and the white house
knows that. but if the fbi were permitted to do what they do best, there would be hundreds of agents being deployed and in terms of corroborating all of the accusers, not just ramirez and not just ford but also ms. swetnick. and there's someone out there, a mother who wrote a letter confidentially saying that her adult daughter was assaulted at a bar while kavanaugh was an adult. all of that needs to be in the universe of accusations being fleshed out. how do you do that? a lot of interviews. a lot of reconstruction. a lot of asking people questions about photos during that time period that put kavanaugh next to people he claims he doesn't even know or barely knows. the new haven division of the fbi would be all over yale, pulling records about who lived in what dorm where. finding resident advisers in the dorms, talking to them about which parties and which personalities were involved in heavy drinking and where's kavanaugh in this picture. the baltimore division would be
at georgetown prep and then looking for that neighborhood in bethesda and the house on the corner near the country club, seeing if it still exists. if there's a bathroom across from the bedroom. bed linens that could refresh memories. forensic interviewers would be talking to each of the victims getting them to understand what happened and recall what happened. but there's no evidence tonight that any of that is being permitted by the white house. and at the end of the week of investigation, that's an artificial deadline, i'd be putting kavanaugh in a room with two female fbi agents and see if he blows up at them like he blew up at senator klobuchar and i'd offer him a polygraph. dr. ford took a polygraph and judge kavanaugh should be offered one as well. >> and he has hit all four of his suggestions there. thank you so much, frank. and i want to get reaction from you, lisa graves. your reflection on those four steps that if frank were to do this, he would at least hit
those. >> i think that's exactly right. and the fbi needs to be able to follow whatever leads come up and interview witnesses, not just witness designated by don mcgahn at the request of senator mcconnell. that's an inappropriate and artificial limit. that's not how these investigations proceed. and i think it's really important for the documentary evidence, photographic evidence and full interviews of witnesses not constrained by these absurd five-minute time limits we saw last week to proceed. i think if that investigation -- that type of investigation proceeds, then the senators will have a chance at seeing the full extent of the ways in which brett kavanaugh lied. and i think he lied extensively in the hearing last week and i think he's been lying before this hearing this last week. and that bears on his credibility. >> so talk about the potential lies that fits in directly with point three. pursue perjury question. how would you do that, john? >> i think we already have some pretty good evidence, and the
senators if they did more homework could have nailed him while they had him sitting there. when he says what abovie in bood it's not that. and the other one about the devil's triangle which is a threesome which goes to the sex question. in terms of corroboration, shakespeare and a woman in shakespeare's macbeth said kill fills itself for fear of being spilled. take those calendars that were made so much fun of on saturday night live. we nailed down july 1st as the date this happened. and in the year that it happened. and you may have noticed that when mitchell got that testimony, the republicans didn't want her asking any more questions. she had done her job too well. as for further corroboration, we had the book that judge wrote in which he identifies the summer in which he was working at that safeway which sets in their junior year. so when we had the crazed
presentation by lindsey graham, i guess recruiting for the job at the head of the attorney general's office, he kept saying, well, we don't have the time and date. well, you know, we do. you know who we have it from? kavanaugh and from judge. now i would like to have just 20 minutes with judge. i don't care all this formal stuff. what did you write in your book? what did you mean, and how is it that she put you in the room with someone other than kavanaugh? she just made up your name and put you in the room? this is so much a sesame street prosecution, i can't even believe we're spending the reames of material writing and talking about it. this woman has corroborated four different ways and we act as if she's the one that's tested. so i think that we don't have an honest investigation. >> frank, 30 seconds with you here. what's the check to the fbi moving outside of whatever the
parameters are? or is there any check? will the fbi take it into a fuzzy line area? 30 seconds. >> i think what's going to happen is the fbi is going to go back to the white house and say we have the following request for additional interviews, additional techniques, and it's up to the white house who apparently is taking advice and counsel from certain people on the senate judiciary committee to say, yes or no. but i have to remind you that clock is ticking. agents should already be knocking on doors, and i don't see that happening. >> all right. bill thanks to all of you, frank for giving us our top four and the way to look thats. lisa graves, shawn flannery. that does it for me this hour. have a great weekend. you can catch me on social media. "kasie dc" up next. "what is your nationality?" and i would always answer, "hispanic." so, when i got my ancestrydna results it was a shocker! i'm everything, i'm from all nations.
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♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. tonight -- the u.s. senate, am i right? just when you think you can't take it anymore, they reel you back in. amid some of the most toxic comments in recent memory, a last-action bipartisan moment to remember. undecideds get another week of breathing room on one of their most difficult votes. plus, the president instructs the fbi to reopen their inveig
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