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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  October 5, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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thanks for being with us. here's ali velshi. >> thank you. have a good rest of your afternoon. stephanie is on assignment. brett kavanaugh is a step closer to being a supreme court justice. here's how this day unfolded so far. >> i saw what they did to robert bork. i saw what they did to clarence thomas. that was nothing compared to what we have witnessed here in
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the last three months. >> never before have we had a nominee display such flagrant partisanship and open hostility at a hearing. >> i do not see how it's possible for my colleagues to say with perfect confidence that judge kaf fall has the temperament, independence and credibility to serve on the united states supreme court. >> give notice that totally uncorroborated allegations of officially, officially enough to destroy an american's life. or will declare our society cannot and must not, will not set the bar so low. >> the question is, is it the sense of the senate that debate on the nomination of brett m. kavanaugh of maryland to be an associate justice of the supreme court shall be brought to a close? the yays and mandatory under the rule. the clerk will call the clerk.
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>> mr. alexander? senators collins, flake -- >> mr. manchin? >> negative? >> murkowski. >> on this vote, the yays 51. the noes are 49. the motion is agreed to. >> i'm glad our colleagues decided to close off debate. now as this 30-hour post cloture period ensues. >> with so much at stake we should not assure a nominee to the court without confidence. i will vote no on the nomination. >> do you plan to vote yes tomorrow? >> unless something changed. i don't see a better process. >> what do you -- >> i -- no. i admire her a lot. a lot. everybody had to make their own decision and i think the world of her. >> i did not come to a decision
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on this until walking in to the floor this morning. i have been wrestling with whether -- whether or not this was about qualifications of a good man. or, is this bigger than the nominee? and i believe we are dealing with issues right now that are bigger than a nominee. i believe that brett kavanaugh is a good man. i believe he is a good man. it just may be that in my view he's not the right man for the court at this time. >> all right. we are following a dramatic and historic moment on capitol hill. the supreme court seat rests in the hands of three senatorsful right now, we are glued to the
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senate floor with debate over the nominee will go on for up to 30 hours. earlier, the chamber voted 51-49 on cloture. two of the three key senators voted to end debate and proceed to the final step but it is not over yet. meanwhile, following protests inside and outside of the capitol. joining me is msnbc's garrett haake on capitol hill. nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house for us. garrett, let's start with you. how did the vote go down today and how does that influence how we should think about what happens tomorrow? >> reporter: with the two of the key republicans in this case, senators collins and flake voting yes, flake coming out afterwards saying the yes is final unless something else comes out about brett kavanaugh, a bombshell overnightme. one of the senators, lisa
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murkowski, voting no. you just played her sound. she agonized over the vote for the duration and meeting with alaskans late yesterday afternoon, talking to sexual assault survivors, internalizing a lot of this and you heard that in her remarks explaining the decision to vote no saying brett kavanaugh, good man and not the right man for this moment. and then there's joe manchin, the lone democrat what's yet to make a final decision on the vote waiting until the very end to cast his vote, waiting to see what the outcome was, what the vote count was before casting the vote the move on to the final phase of the game. watching two senators, collins and manchin, waiting to make the final decisions an getting the next piece of the puzzle when senator collins is giving a speech outlining the choice she's made and to the best of our knowledge, joe manchin has not made a final decision yet. he was still in the secure room
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of the capitol going over the fbi reports as late of this morning and tight lipped about his final decision at this point. >> all right. let's just play this out. if collins votes against kavanaugh or decides to, we are in a 50/50 position, manchin -- it's been said doesn't want to be the deciding vote, whether he feels that he wants to vote for kavanaugh, he wouldn't want to be the democrat who put him on the supreme court. >> reporter: yeah. that's right. >> is there -- what's the likelihood or just not close enough to know? >> reporter: it's tough to say. look. opponents of kavanaugh need both to vote no. bat .1000. to win this thing outright a. 50/50 split is i think less likely because it puts joe manchin in an awkward position. does the last democrat want to be the vote to put a conservative on the supreme court? does he want to be the guy that goes against his party?
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he's in a tight election race and this is the parlor came on capitol hill, figuring out this vote in west virginia. voting for kavanaugh, liberals in west virginia, certainly fired up and paying attention, might say why bother with this guy? voting in favor of kavanaugh, maybe it allows him to say i'm joe from west virginia. i'm not co-oped by d.c. as to what he believes about the merits of the judge, the merits of dr. ford's allegations, joe manchin has said nothing. said he wants to review the fbi report and since looking at it he's been a ghost here on capitol hill. >> kelly, what's the white house's position on this right now? >> reporter: there's relief, confidence. a senior official said to me they're happy with where things stand right now. believing that they will get across the finish line and however narrow this margin, if brett kavanaugh becomes the next associate justice of the supreme
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court that will be a battered victory for the trump white house but it would still be a victory. one of the calculations for joe manchin as garrett was explaining. he was there just over the last weekend. i was on that trip to wheeling, west virginia, where the president talked about the kavanaugh nomination and there to support the republican attorney general of the state to encourage supporters to vote for him. and joe manchin, previously governor of west virginia has a lot on the line. he did vote for neil gorsuch last year and some people in the manchin circle told me they don't feel they got a bump for that support of gorsuch last year in any perceptible way. will that factor into the calculation? we are a few weeks away from a critical election for joe manchin. of these final undecideds, he is the only one facing voters in a little over a month and that could make a difference so at
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the white house there are things that they can try to do to encourage support for kavanaugh to quiet any ongoing reservations that may exist but really the big hurdle happened today, not only with this advancing it but also the signal from jeff flake who is a conservative and was always sort of wanting to vote for kavanaugh and now that he's ended the suspense, susan collins has been in the close touch with the white house. i have not heard of a phone call to try to encourage her. that's something we're trying to get at to see if there's encouragement coming from this end of pennsylvania avenue. >> to underscore this point, manchin, whatever he thinks, may be influenced by what susan collins does and we'll learn what she plan to do at 3:00 this afternoon. she's going to do that. and, garrett, to what degree is susan collins influenced by both
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lisa murkowski comment that she isn't going to vote in favor of -- certainly didn't vote and probably not vote in favor of brett kavanaugh and by heidi heidkamp? >> reporter: make no mistake. susan collins will make her own vote here and they're all extremely close. there are not that many women in the united states senate in general and they are very tight-knit group in the center of so many of these controversial votes today. some viewers may remember the photo after the health care vote of two of them hugging and talking together in an elevator after that very long night. the fact that heidi heidkamp said she would be a no vote and if you watch the clip on north dakota local television as i know you are a big fan, as am i,
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she was emotional in this. this was not an easy decision for her either. they have agonized over the choices and tend to talk and support each other and you have to think there's an effect, if it's enough to change a vote, i can't say. we'll find out soon enough. >> we're watching it closely. 3:00 p.m. is when we expect to hear from susan collins and going to be an influential decision. thanks to both of you. joining me is historian john meacham and was with me a week ago. jeff flake then asked for this delay for further fbi investigation. john, i just want to play some sound that we got from senator murkowski a little earlier. >> i have been wrestling with whether or not this was about the qualifications of a good man
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or is this bigger than the nominee. and i believe we are dealing with issues right now that are bigger than a nominee. and how we ensure that our institutions, not only the legislative branch, but our judicial branch, continue to be respected. this is what i've been wrestling with. >> john, senator murkowski has articulated a concern that other people have here that is not necessarily tied to whether or not you believe that brett kavanaugh was involved in sexual assault. might not even be about his temperament now or a partisanship displayed. it is about what it does to the supreme court, what it does to the process of nominating a supreme court justice. strikes me that her commentary could be used by others as cover to vote no on kavanaugh. look, this is now bigger than
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brett kavanaugh. >> i think that's right. i think what senator murkowski was articulated as i interpret it, a vote at this point for judge kavanaugh would be a vote for explicit partisanship and a signal -- i think she says issues bigger than the nominee, a signal that if you have one set of testimony from a woman and one set of testimony from a man you believe the man. and she -- i'm guess -- believes that that's not a durable view, way to go forward. it's an interesting articulation. it seems very honest to me. and i think that what we'll see in an hour or so, a couple of hours with senator collins is going to be a really remarkable moment. is she going to side with that kind of common sense view of the senator murkowski articulated or will she decide that, in fact, you go with the good man despite
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the counter argument and the evidence and the facts that have been put forward. >> there are a lot of people wondering if this is a major test of the nascent me too movement. when you look at some of the most important movements we have seen in the history of this country, success a year in is not the way we ultimately judge them. suffrage or civil rights. how do you answer that question? if brett kavanaugh succeeds, is that a setback to a movement that is about women's voices being heard? >> i don't see how you could interpret it any other way. just as bluntly as i can put it. if you have this moment where a woman alleges something, the man denies it, the investigation into it seems to have been somewhat truncated, seems to me that a kavanaugh victory now
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will mark if not a setback certainly not -- no progress for this movement. and social movements take a long time as you say. change happens in america when the voices of the powerless intercept with the powerful. and this is one of those moments from the outside that seems to be -- have all the conditions for this to be a big movement of advancement for the me too movement. and it also has the capacity to be a significant setback. i don't think there's -- i think people will try to argue around that and they'll talk about qualifications and process. but from a common sense, you know, layman's point of view i don't see how you interpret it any other way. >> i'll speak to you later in the show. jon meacham, thank you for your comments. democrats argue that judge kavanaugh shouldn't be promoted because of the angry testimony
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last week. up next, the role that temperament plays in being a supreme court justice according to his own past remarks. maybe he is not eligible for the job. a live look at the senate floor. this process could last up to 30 hours. we have special coverage all day. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. at humana, we believe great things are ahead of you when you start with healthy. and part of staying healthy means choosing the right medicare plan. humana can help. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits when you're sick. but keep in mind you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan can cover your deductibles and co-insurance, but you may pay higher premiums than you do with other plans. and prescription
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welcome back to our breaking news covering of judge brett kavanaugh who cleared a major
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hurdle in the senate today. his testimony had many lawmakers questioning his temperament and impartiality. he said i was emotional. i might have been too emotion at times. i said a few things i should not have said. the testimony was opposite of what he said a judge should be in a speech in 2015. >> to be a good judge and a good umpire, it's important to have the proper demeanor. really important, i think. >> no, no, no, no, no. you got this up. i'm going to talk about -- no. i'm going to talk about my high school record if you're going to sit here and mock me. >> to keep our emotions in check. to be calm amidst the storm. on the bench, to put in it a vernacular, don't be a jerk. >> the behavior of several of the democratic members of this committee was an embarrassment. you have tried hard. you have given it your whole.
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what goes around comes around. >> it's very important at the outset for a judge to be an umpire to avoid any semblance of that partisanship. that's the first probably most fundamental thing for a judge to be an umpire. >> this whole two-week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit. fueled with apparent pent-up anger of president trump and the 2016 election. revenge on behalf of the clintons. >> with me now, mimi roker and mili wiley. let's start with you, maya, and the most recent new that is murkowski is not going to vote in favor of brett kavanaugh and she without going down this road about brett kavanaugh being not right for this job because of -- she believes the allegations of sexual assault or these thing
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that is we just saw temperament, partisanship, she said this is now about something bigger. >> yes. >> and you and i were talking about this. what's she mean? that this whole mess has become such that there's no way to make brett kavanaugh suitable for this job anymore? >> i think so. she wouldn't say that pointedly and talking about and what protesters in d.c. and in other states have been saying is this is almost become a referendum of whether we believe women about the level of sexual violence and what it means for them to come forward with their stories. and to vote for a person who's now nominated to the highest court of the land and accused and not had a full investigation of those allegations came out very aggressively in that senate hearing last week in a way that was quite partisan. this is created an impression for many that we will have both a noncredible democratic process
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of selecting justices and that we're sending a signal quite clearly to the nation that we have not got on the a place in society where we value and are willing to address sexual violence. >> we in society and, mimi, the idea of a supreme court justice who doesn't see it that way. i want your reaction to former supreme court justice stephens explaining why he is now standing in opposition to brett kavanaugh. okay. hold on. we don't seem to have it. stephens said he's a fine federal judge and should have been confirmed but i think his performance in the hearings caused me to change my mind. he demonstrated a potential bias of enough potential litigants before the court he would not perform the null responsibilities. where do you think that fits in? he talked about left wing groups and democrats and in 2015 said you're an umpire. you can't talk about those things.
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>> right. and this is -- there's two distinctions i want to make here. one is, there's an issue that maya was talking about, about this being a bigger issue, a referendum on view and treat victims of sexual assault who come forward. there's the issue of judicial temperament and the rage, his outbursts, almost seeming instability and he can apologize and say that was because of his emotional -- the emotion of the time but, guess what. it's emotional in courtrooms and someone has to be able to control those in order to be a good judge. as he himself said. there's a third issue what justice stevens is narrowing in on, this is not just about temperament but literally whether he can do the job of a supreme court justice and what tipped it for justice stephens because kavanaugh identified by large group name as you said, people seeking revenge for the clintons.
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left wing opposition groups. people who are, you know, upset about the 2016 election. that encompasses a lot of sort of different groups like the ucla, planned parenthood. they were euphemisms for groups to have cases in front of him and as lawrence tribe explained of an article he referenced, under the constitution kavanaugh cannot sit on cases involving parties that he now has identified in this way as sort of his enemies because he cannot have the appearance or likely the actual conduct of someone who is impartial. this is just -- yes. go ahead. >> maya, this is as pete williams said to us, a supreme court justice only really ever recuse themselves if there's a direct relationship to the case they're seeing. no one could have to cause brett kavanaugh to recuse themselves with the nature of the court
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recuses are difficult on the supreme court. so, he might say, i can judge this fairly if it's the aclu or planned parenthood. these cases could be heard by the supreme court and many, many millions of americans who look to the supreme court as a branch of government upon which they rely now. there are people i think two years ago didn't pay much attention to the supreme court who think now it might be the saving grace for america. >> i think that's exactly right. we are talking about literally -- let's back up. there is actually a case that may well work itself up to the supreme court where the democratic party is actually a party to the case. the party brought the case. so given his statements, it would be very hard to imagine that he could stand as he did i think in "wall street journal" "wall street journal" op-ed and said no matter what i said, trust that i'm impartial. actual, the judicial code of conduct for federal judges says,
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no. you know? actually, he's already in my view and as a lawyer i would say he's already violated the judicial code of ethics for a sitting federal judge. and that makes it extremely difficult to imagine him in this role and one other thing we should point out is the american bar association today did something that is highly unusual. it re-opened the evaluation of its qualification for his supreme court nomination. i don't remember a time when that's ever happened and that's the profession saying, which doesn't do it on a partisan basis, purely based on qualification, is actually saying, we have enough concern now that we're going do re-evaluate. i think that's something the senators need to take into account before they vote. >> in op-ed that brett kavanaugh wrote, it is kind of interesting because there's no one in the world thinking that his testimony was not well prepared and well thought out.
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he conveyed the message. he chose to convey. maybe in concert with the white house. maybe for as people said for donald trump to maintain the president's support but to come out a week later saying maybe i was too harsh. forgive me for it. that seems unusual. again, i think unusual for anybody. highly unusual for somebody who wants to be a supreme court justice. >> well, yeah. it is unusual and it's inaccurate. it wasn't something he said in the heat of the moment. many of the remarks we're all talking about were in his prepared remarks. this was calculated and thought out. and it -- for him to now say, oh, it was the heat of the moment is just disingenuous and yet another disingenuous statement by brett kavanaugh. >> thank you both for your help in covering this story. the latest jobs report shows that unemployment is at its lowest level in almost half a century. we're going to talk about how much credit president trump is going to take for the new rate next. we are watching markets for you.
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second day in a row with the markets that have turned a lot lower and lower than yesterday. so the dow is now off more than a percent. 310 points. i'll explain it to you in a little while. brand new car and totals it. and as if that wasn't bad enough, now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it? you'd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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it's been a wild week in the markets. the dow hit another record close wednesday, almost hitting the 27,000 mark and then yesterday seeing a major selloff and this morning we started in the green but look at when's going on pretty much all day so far. the dow off about 285 points. take a look at what's going on. first of all, interest rates. this is what you have to think about. in the united states they're continuing to rise. the 10-year treasury, an influni influential bond, at 3.23%, the highest in years. this is because of news that the economy is steadily growing and new jobs are being created. when an economy starts to feel a little hotter, you see interest rates go up. we got the new jobs number this is morning from the labor department and indeed in september the unemployment rate dropped to 3.7%, that's a number we haven't seen in nearly 50 years and anybody following me for a last quarter century knows
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i say please don't pay attention to this number. this is the most important number. the number of jobs added. 134,000. not bad but not close to what we have been doing in previous months and hourly wages close 2.8%. the average hourly wage is higher than it was a year ago. still these are all generally good indicators of economic growth and ironically is what is pushing the selloff that we are seeing now on wall street. let me show you the sectors that saw the most new jobs last month. health care, which is just a consistent grower for years. even through the recession. 26,000 new positions. by the way, doesn't all mean high-paid doctors or nurses but could be home health care aids and it's a good area for growth. transportation and warehousing, up 24,000. construction jobs up 23,000. manufacturing jobs increased by
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18,000. president trump has taken credit for declining unemployment and a booming economy and he deserves some credit where credit is due. but i always like to remind the president this is when he became president. this is since the end of the recession. this is 2009. march 2009 when the stock market bottomed and i think -- like to think of it as the end of the recession. that's the unemployment rate. okay? and in fact, if you see it's almost flattened out a little bit under trump so make what you want of it. i think they take too much credit and get too much blame. i just need you to understand. i'm going to block it off here. theis the donald trump part on the left. everything behind me, obama part. in truth, america's current economic expansion is nine years in the making. that well proceeds the president. bring in john harwood of cnbc, editor at large. it's a tiresome conversation,
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john. i don't want to belabor it. not blaming the president. he's continued things going on a nice tear. get back to the stock market. why are interest rates rising and why does that spook the markets? 3.23% for a yield for the 10-year. not all that high. just the highest in many years. >> well, the fed has embarked on a campaign of raising interest rates, jay powell said we're still not at a neutral position. monetary policy is easy. he plans to raise rates more. and the danger is that the economy overheats and everything then -- we flip into a recession and people are -- you know, the current expansion finally runs out of gas. not that surprising that the jobs number is lower on a monthly average under trump than it was at the end of obama because as you said it's a nine-year expansion.
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that's very long. and at point it ends and where the skill of the federal reserve comes in over how exactly they manage the return to steady state monetary policy. >> listen. if interest rates are going up and the fed chair said we're not there yet, it's a human nature, right? stocks are the only game in town, when you can't get 1% with the money in the bank you play the stock market. when you can go to a bank for 2% or 2.5% and it goes up like that, there are people regular investors and professional investors who are just going do take the money out of the market. what do investors think about this? pairing down the investments or a reaction to a quick increase in interest rates? >> i do think over time there's more of an inclination to move money in the way you suggested because everybody seems to agree, this is a highly valued stock market right now.
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you have to wonder if you're in stocks right now, am i in the best position or given the fact that interest rates are going up, is it a safer thing for me to move money into, you know, fixed income assets? and i think that's a driving some of the decision making. >> all right, john. thank you. >> yep. we follow a tense scene on capitol hill. democrats and republicans making fiery speeches of whether judge brett kavanaugh should be elevated to the supreme court. protesters outside and inside the building rallying against kavanaugh trying to keep the pressure on the key senators and going to capitol hill next and first counting down to the midterm elections now. you are watching "velshi & ruhle." ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure. now up to 30 grams of protein for strength and energy!
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discover.o. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover. it's very rare for senators who vote yes on cloture to then flip and vote no on final but it's happened. there have been recent high-profile very significant votes where that has happened. i did have a conversation with senator flake this morning. >> do you plan to vote yes tomorrow? >> unless something big changed. i don't see any better process. >> what do you -- voting no? >> no. i -- admire her a lot. a lot. and everybody had to make their own decision and i think the world of her. >> i did not come to a decision
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on this until walking in to the floor this morning. i believe that brett kavanaugh is a good man. i believe he is a good man. it just may be that in my view he's not the right man for the court at this time. >> should step back and think about this. they're trying to rush it through before anything newcombs out. they're afraid of what might come out. i think they should look at the nominee and say, fine. he might know the law well. he is not somebody who should be on the u.s. supreme court. >> showed him to be what he really is, a political operative dressed in the robes of a judge. not someone whose temperament and words are befitting of the supreme court. >> welcome back to the coverage. brett kavanaugh passing a key hurdle on the path to being confirmed to the supreme court after a 51-49 cloture vote.
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the final vote is coming this weekend. back with me is msnbc's garrett haake. i've been telling people in the 3:00 hour when i'll be back we are going to be hearing what appears to be susan collins' decision on this. others may make a decision based on what collins does and she puts it into flux. what do we know about this? >> reporter: that's right. susan collins would be if a yes vote essentially gets republicans where they need to be, at least 50 votes in favor of judge brett kavanaugh. as much as i think she's tired of being in this position of being such a deciding vote on so many issues, here we are again awaiting her 3:00 p.m. announcement and the capitol hill team here is so good. some producers saw susan collins leaving lunch with a bunch of key republican senators in leadership including mitch mcconnell. i'm told he looked to be pretty happy coming out of a lunch
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meeting with susan collins. nothing matters and all matters and these are the conversation that is susan collins is having in the final hours before making that announcement. and it doesn't mean nothing. >> this is literally like reading the tea leaves. you're seeing what soup they eat and whether anybody pointed a finger at anybody. >> reporter: right. >> because it matters. this is going to be one of the most influential votes. you have covered a lot of influential things. this is it. do you have a sense that around there everybody realizes that this is a day similar to the health care vote where john mccain walked in and gave a thumbs down? >> reporter: yeah. it feels that way. the stakes are high here. you get the tension in the air. you get how personal this is for so many of the senators on both sides feeling like the vote to last for a generation if kavanaugh is seated on the bench or someone else is, carries a lot of weight politically. carries a lot of weight
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emotionally. there are protesters here, both of the variety we have seen on television and more dramatic protests and people visiting from basically every state meeting with senators telling them their personal stories. there is no missing the importance of this. there is no missing the tension of this. really, i think your comparison of the health care bill is apt. it's the only vote up here that has the same emotional resonance. people on both sides are completely dialed in on this. >> all right. we'll be in close touch throughout the course of the day. with me now is white house correspondent or the white house correspondent for -- back with me is author of "the soul of america: the battle for our better angels" among many other books, jon meacham. shannon, you wrote that trump is gambling that support of the imperilled supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh drives republican voters to the polls in november and save his party's control of congress. democrats are saying, exactly
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the same thing, for their party's voters. so both of them betting on this nomination energizing their bases. >> right. and ironically, somehow the supreme court justice being accused of sexual assault is one of the best thing that is the white house feels could have happened to them right before the midterm elections because of how it's energized republican voters and obviously, yes, it is energizing democratic voters, too, but the difference republicans feel is that democrats were already extremely energized, at a level 11 but in the days before the kavanaugh hearing they felt apathy in the republican party even among the base there's big concern about turnout. they had been struggling to find an issue to resonate with republicans. it wasn't the tax bill. they were thinking maybe it would be impeachment and threats of impeachment and as soon as i would say the moment that brett kavanaugh stood up there, raised the right hand and began that really emotional testimony, i think guess was about last week
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now, they have really felt the momentum turn and they're feeling very strong and encouraged about the way things are playing out for them despite how controversial and bruising this process has been. >> jon, a week ago thursday we were watching the testimony, the world was enraptured. it was one of those -- you know, there's nobody that didn't say that was a moment in american history and then the next day the senate vote and jeff flake asking for the investigation, how does this compare and how will it compare to other turning points in american history? are we -- has this become a flashpoint and a turning point that you think we are talking about for the next 50 or 100 years? >> i think we'll be talking about it in context of the court, absolutely. it's in a way bigger than the thomas/hill hearings because justice thomas wasn't seen as the swing vote in the way that judge kavanaugh is. to go back to something you were talking about a second ago, i
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think this is more significant than the health care vote in this sense. the health care vote was a piece of legislation that could be revisited. >> correct. >> it is very difficult if not impossible to revisit a supreme court confirmation. and there may be democratic efforts to continue investigating, possibly to launch an effort to impeach judge kavanaugh if he is justice kavanaugh, a very longshot, indeed. so this is an interesting intersection of two things. of partisan fury with this historic opportunity to shift the balance of the court. and one of the things we're seeing, if in fact judge kavanaugh is confirmed over the next couple of days, is the payoff of really a 40-year, 50-year almost strategy on the part of republicans not to be eisenhowered or nixoned or george h. bushed again. you haven't used those -- >> what do you mean by that?
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>> dwight eisenhower broke 20 years of democratic control. imagine that. 20 years of roosevelt and truman. he comes in and appointsbrennan. he appoints jfustices who becom liberal decisions. nixon appoints four justices. 1990, george h.w. bush appointed david suitor who is seen as a liberal justice as time goes by. the pledge on the right has been to never be fooled again. this is the natural evolution. that's a lot to put on evolution because it's supposed to be progress. those are the historical passions that are meeting today on the floor of the united states senate. >> remarkable to hear you talk
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about this. you are describing it in the terms we will probably think about this historically. for the last week everything we have done in coverage of this has been with the knowledge that these are historic moments. we'll have another one in just an hour when we hear what susan collins decision will be. thanks to both of you. next, what happens if kavanaugh gets through the senate and is confirmed as a supreme court justice. court justice. oh, look... another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works in just one week. with the fastest retinol formula to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®.
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with our cancer care specialists today. welcome back. we have a final senate vote on brett kavanaugh set for tomorrow. the nominee could be a sitting justice within days. how is his presence going to have an impact on the court's rulings and what happens if another accuser comes forward against kavanaugh? joining me now is pete williams. to the first question, pete. what happens if there are more unsettled issues about judge kavanaugh once he's named to the court? >> two possibilities. one is nothing. you may recall that there have been additional books written
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about clarence accusations that anita hill made. the same thing could happen to judge kavanaugh. you had been discussing the last day or so the talk among democrats of having an impeachment proceeding if theat was the case. there's a real constitutional question about whether impeachment can be used before a person came into office. can you impeach someone for something they did before they became a supreme court justice or is it only to be used for punishment, official misdeeds while in office. that's an unresolved question. >> i've asked you this before. he's talk about the issue of recus recusal. something gets to the supreme court that has to do with sexual assault or something that has to do with other things that brett
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kavanaugh now seems to regret saying or has apologized for saying during his testimony about partisan politics and what he calls left wing groups that could bring a challenge to the supreme court. it's not easy for a supreme court justice to be recused from case. >> it's different on the supreme court. there are only nine justices. there's no spares. in the district court, you get a different judge. on the appeals court as well. there's no stand by supreme justice. that reduces the number that can hear the case and that's never a good thing. they decide themselves whether to recuse. no one else tells them. parties can ask but it's still up to the justice and they usually recuse because that have a personal conflict. they own stock in a company. they decided the case when it was in a lower court. recusal for what you might call strictly sort of partisan or
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policy views is extremely rare. remember, that ruth bader ginsberg was critical of donald trump and she didn't recuse when the ban came before the court and the government didn't can her to. i think defenders of kavanaugh would say what he was criticizing is the way the con for medicati -- confirmation process was being handled. not criticizing liberal politics or liberal view. they may try to draw that distinction. the number of cases he was recused because of this would be quite small. >> thanks very much. pete williams is our justice correspondent. we may be in a world we may have to start having these discussion about what brett kavanaugh on the supreme court looks like. we'll find out in about an hour from now what susan collins will do. she does seem to hold everything
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about this in her hands right now. if she votes in favor of brett cavs n kavanaugh or says she's going to, there's no way he's not going to be confirmed to the supreme court. if she decides she is voting against brett kavanaugh then the math comes into play. we start looking very carefully at joe manchin and other who is are seeking that sort of cover. remember, lisa murkowski said it's not about brett kavanaugh now. it's about something much bigger. i'm going to be back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. stephanie will be back nec week. i didn't want to get in trouble. i wasn't going to say it. now i want to say it. today we have velshi. the other day we has ruhle. we did get an indication maybe
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from lindsey graham and mitch mcconnell on where susan collins might be headed. that in just a moment. it's 11:00 a.m. out west and 2:00 p.m. in washington. this afternoon the eyes of the entire country are on the senate floor. we know after a test vote earlier today that brett kavanaugh's confirmation will come down to a few critical senators. among them senator susan collins who we were just talking about. she is said to announce her ultimate decision on the supreme court nominee in one hour on the senate floor. another senator to watch is joe manchin. a democrat from west virginia who may support trump's nominee. right now he is in the undecided column. senator lisa murkowski, a republican who voted against letting the vote on kavanaugh advance to the floor this morning. that likely signals she will be a vote no tomorrow. earlier tay


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