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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 24, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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and everyone. i'm nicole wallace. have a great weekend. we'll see you monday. off to the races. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. after this month's midterm elections, democrats may feel the wind at their back as the sprint toward 2020 kicks into high gear. with president trump campaigning for reelection, there's a host of democratic hopefuls. raising money, visiting key states and honing their messages as they look to challenge him. but even as the 2018 midterms brought a big victory for democrats with a new majority in the house of representatives,
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"the new york times" reports that some wins and near losses have raised questions about whose vision of the democratic party will emerge victorious in 2020. and it raises questions about whether democrats can deliver a consistent message to voters and unite behind one nominee from a slate of candidates who could range from socialists to pragmatic sen pragmatic centrists. a few familiar names loom large. a morning consult poll taken in the days following the midterm found joe biden is the early leader. bernie sanders came in second. but to underscore the desire for new faces, beto o'roarke fresh off his loss in the texas senate race came in third. senators elizabeth warren of massachusetts, kamala harris, cory booker of new jersey was
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just behind. none of the others earned as much as 3%. none of the big named candidates have officially announced their entexs for 2020. but on the stump in the waning days of the campaign, many seemed to be previewing their own 2020 pitches. >> democrats choose hope over fear. democrats choose unity over division. and most importantly, we choose truth over lies. >> ideas that just three years ago were perceived to be radical and extremist ideas are now ideas that are supported by the vast majority of the american people. thank you, iowa. >> we are better than this. and that's what we're fighting for. and so let's think about it in the context, then, of what's at steak. there's so much at steak. >> this is not a time to curl up. it is not a time to shut up. it is not a time to give up.
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it's a time to get up, to rise up, to speak up. it's time for you not to wait for hope but to be the hope. >> it's our time to fight back. are you ready to fight back? it's our time to fight back. >> joining me right now is heidi przybyla, jonathan allen, donna brazile, and john bray bender. donna, you're miss inside on this thing. what do you think about now and how we look forward to all the way to november 2020. what does it look like to you in terms of the candidates? >> i'm excited, chris. this is my 11th presidential season. i know i'm a little older than a few of my colleagues here. 11 presidential seasons. we've going to have the largest, most diverse group of candidates that we've ever seen in a democratic party.
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yes, we will have a basket of elected officials. we'll have a bunch of nonelected officials, but what really excites me is that you're going to see new blood, new energy, and we won't have to count on count dracula for new blood. >> what do you make of this? we have the top line here. basically even the top line, even joe biden, everybody knows who he is, is getting 28%. is it 28? 26. >> yeah. >> that's only a quarter of the vote. everybody knows who he is. this is not ethnicity or age. it's diverse in terms of numbers. nobody is secure here. >> right. well, in elections past to donna's point, there would be an unspoken rule for some of the others who have practically already announced their campaigns to kind of step back and wait on joe biden, but joe biden himself as said don't do it. this is going to be a wide open field. and there is no prototype.
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there's going to be a knock down drag out fight between the progressive grass roots and the more pragmatic kind of blue collar prototype candidates. the only thing that i think may be off the table is the tough guy kind of, like, gutter fighter model that, frankly, a lot of democrats told me right after trump won was what they needed. they would need their own tough guy to go toe to toe. >> like mark cuban. >> how about cory? look, i shouldn't say this, but i don't think anybody who yells ever wins. every time you get out there with that oratory, people are like interesting, but he's not the next president. reagan soft spoken. obama was soft spoken. bill clinton hardly ever yelled. who is going to blow the doors off? >> you have a 747 full of candidates coming in as donna points out. i think it remains to be seen. the democratic party is very
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divided over who they want. undecided is almost as popular as the top candidate in their joe biden who has universal name recognition. who's the candidate that gets in there and blows the doors off? i think it's the candidate who proves themselves exciting to people. >> beto o'roarke. >> look at beto o'roarke. i think that he will be in iowa as much and as often as possible in the early months of 2020. >> do you think he wired this that he would run even if they lost? >> i don't know if he was planning ahead, but the best outcome for him to run for president is losing by the small margin. if he had won the senate seat, no one would taken it well going from austin to des moines in the first stop. >> all right. why don't you be the trump whisperer here. who does he -- who is he rooting for? i get the feeling when he does things like elizabeth warren, something she's a winner, some don't think so.
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does trump think she's the one he wants? he keeps doing nicknaming with her as if he's trying to turn her into the front runner? >> i think he feels elizabeth warren won't play in rust belt states. i think he thinks bernie sanders would be a fine opponent. i think he thinks joe biden would be. >> think he's afraid of joe? >> i don't think donald trump thinks that way. i don't think he's worried about it. here's what people don't understand. everybody is saying who is the front runner? just as important is who can stay in the race to take votes away from somebody? >> who has the staying power? say iowa goes for elizabeth warren and elizabeth warren wins in new hampshire and kamala challenges here in nevada. and then you go to california and she cleans up. who else can -- it's about warren and harris. okay. is it over then? it normally would be. the one who wins in iowa and
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challenges. or is there a guy like biden or a beto o'roarke or somebody who stays in there for ten or 20 contests and finally goes around the corner and wins? is that possible? >> yeah. because of the proportional rules within the party. i'm still on the rules committee. one of the things we try to establish in the rules committee is to not just get the states to spread out a little bit, but to ensure that we have the kind of diversity and the selection of delegates that we have in every other aspect of our party. in 2008 and 2016 the democratic party clearly favored the establishment. but the voters wanted an outsider. that's why you saw barack obama come straight up the middle in that very talented field of candidates in 2008. and in 2016 hillary clinton was the favorite, and bernie came within a distance of pulling it off. had the election gone another month, bernie would have caught up. >> if they wouldn't have had the debates on nfl night. >> that's another conversation
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about the debate schedule. i believe the outsider might be able to accrue delegates. >> vice president biden and senator warren indicated a time frame they're thinking about. let's look at this. let's watch. >> i don't know. i don't know. i still don't know. i have to make my decision what i'm going to do. i have until the first of the year. >> here's what i promise. after november sixth i will take a hard look at running for president. >> what's the delay? why don't they just get in this thing? >> they want to see how the post midterm period turns out. they want to call donors. they've been holding off until the midterms to make all the calls except for the few close people to them. they want to see the is the money there? are the staffers there? do the polls look good? >> they haven't decided in life they want to be president? >> i think a lot of them -- >> these guys -- bill clinton
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and a lot of them, i'm not knocking bill, these people, you can tell when they ran for student council when they were 13. >> they all want to be president. you've seen it go 50 states. if they want to be competitive and play in that and get delegates going in the convention. it could be a contested convention. they'll have to be able to raise serious money. >> heidi, one potential factor in 2020 could be age. president trump will be 74 on election day 74. 74. by comparison senator sanders will be 79. former vice president joe biden will be 77. elizabeth warren will be somewhere near that but much younger. senator harris will be 56 and senator booker will be 51. he's the kid in the race. i grew up thinkinging hiezen ho
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was too old. people still want someone around 50. >> i think bernie sanders pretty much blew up that notion in the last election cycle. and age doesn't matter until it does. until there's an alternative that is a new shiny kind of inspiring face like a beto o'roarke. i think what's going to be more important than age is who can bring that secret sauce of appealing to those midwestern industrial states in a working class appeal while also keeping this new coalition together of the republicans, the more affluent suburban moderate swing voters and not alienating them. not going too far to the left. i don't know what will emerge in the primary -- >> that's what you'll have. >> when you court during the presidential process, when
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you're courting voters, you're looking for somebody who can appeal to your heart and also your head. democrats tend to like candidates who a feisty and can wake you up in the morning but at nighttime keep you fired up. i think they will look for someone with some energy, somebody with new ideas, because after all, we're competing against donald trump. >> speaking of insides, i mentioned earlier in the political poll about hype political field, beto o'roarke was third nationally. here's how beto o'roarke thanked his supporters on election night. >> everyone who allowed themselves to hope and to believe, and to be inspired by one another and to turn that into action and into votes, and to do snag no one, no one thought was possible, to build a campaign like this one solely comprised of people, people from all walks of life, it is the greatness to which we aspire and
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the work that we're willing to put into it to achieve it by which we will be known going forward. >> o'roarke's campaign against ted cruz may have galvanized democrats in texas but also nationwide. as "the new york times" notes, buzz around a possible o'roarke 2020 bid has left some party outers skeptical. tom vilsack sold "the times" we're always looking for rock stars, but i don't think the country is looking for rock stars. whoa. what was that about? >> oh. >> i think he's wrong. he was not a texas candidate. he was a national candidate. make no mistake about it. we will show early in the polls. he has a national personality that's engaged. he checks the boxes. i think he's a credible candidate. the other thing, let's remember, they're not talking to midterm election voters. you're talking to now very progressive voters who are going to determine this nominee. the party, i believe, has moved
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to the left. i think that's the most engaged part of the party. as they move forward the candidates will move left. i think he picked a lot of the boxes that others don't. bernie sanders, last time was credible because of how progressive he was, and they accepted the fact that he was old. now he's four years older and there's other people that are just as progressive. my advice to joe biden would be always get seated next to bernie sanders. then he looks younger. >> what do you think of beto? will he do it? >> there was a lot of analysis before he lost that that would be actually the best thing for him. >> you just said that. >> yeah. but before he lost as well. that there was foresight that would be a potential path for him. he does bring all those -- he's kind of inspiring and has the populist appeal. texas -- a state that's coming close for contracdemocrats. >> how does o'roarke work with other democrats in the race? >> he's about 64.
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>> how does he do with black women in the south. the most royal voting and provide delegate after delegate in the nominating process, and how does he do with blue collar working class white voters in pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. the general election states that flipped in the governor and senator races this last time from trump to the democrats? >> well, i just gave him my book on bobby kennedy. he wins in all those candidates. the round table is sticking with us. coming up, there are dozens of sleeper candidates for 2020. is there a chance for one of those to breakthrough to pop up and get to the front of the pack to be the top candidate? plus the democratic party is looking for signs of life in the midwest, the rust belt that used to be called. we don't say that anymore that went big for trump in 2016. the upper midwest. can trump hold onto those in 2020 or do the democrats who did incredibly well in the midterms in the midwest do it again in
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we've just gone over the more obvious picks for 2020. there are dozens of sleeper picks who could prize in popularity over the next year. no one here as officially announced they're running but some have said they're thinking about it. others have worked about getting their messages out during campaigning for other people. >> i've said i've been seriously considering running in 2020 for a while. >> i believe that i've been called to fight as hard as i possibly can to restore that moral integrity and decency. >> that sounds like a yes. >> i'm thinking about it. >> i think that we've got to nominate somebody that can bridge some of the divides. >> the short-term divisive
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thinking that republicans have is not resonate snchlgt. >> it is really important for us to make sure that if we are given the responsibility to govern that we govern in a mag pragmatic way that makes sense. >> not just to governor but to prepare for 2020, a blueprint where the focus is on workers. >> we need to focus on what matters to people. that's an optimistic state of togetherness. >> the state of our nation is hopeful, resilient and enduring. >> are you looking at it? >> absolutely. >> i'm seriously looking at it. i say the more the merrier. >> we're back with our panel, heidi, jonathan, donna and john. i look at the second round of the kid's table. it's pretty impressive. i can see four or five of those people as president. it's credible for me. sherrod brown, mike bloomberg if he'd get past the primaries.
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>> there's -- you talk about hickenlooper, sherrod brown, names we hadn't been talking about and are not even on that polling sheet. >> tell me about ji-- it's goin to help with some people. >> she's made her mark in the senate on the issue of sexual harassment both in the military and on capitol hill. so in a way she was in a tough situation because she had to lead in that moment. and democrats did not want to be accused of being hypocritical of casting a finger at the other party. >> you think she's in the running for president or vp? >> we'll likely have four or five women candidates in. this will be the first presidential election in the me too movement moment, and i think you will see a serious number of women running. we've never had an issue of which woman to choose from. kamala harris, elizabeth warren,
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and on and on. we've never had that. >> we've had no paradigm. men it's like let's be john wai wayne. maybe not braarack obama. he's more lax. but hillary won the popular vote. she lost in the states that matter. we know all this. >> but it's not going to work this way. having done the last three presidential -- been involved in some way. these debates are different when they do two tier. if you looked at the republicans debates, the first tier, the nonprime time debate was more substantive and much better but nobody could move any numbers because they only had one fifth the audience watching that. >> does the cut off come when networks say you're in the first tier? >> that's what happens. and it's almost impossible to move out of there because nobody has seen you in prime time. unless you have a huge national following that gives you money but doesn't tell pollsters
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they're voting for you or you're a self-funder, it's virtually impossible to start low and move up. >> how big, how large can the first tier be? can you have more than seven people up there? >> some tv networks tried to put 20 up there at once. i think you can probably legitimately have ten. >> i think ten is the starting point. >> but if you have ten, you have to figure out who is on the lower one. you can't do ten and two. if you have 12, they're more inclined to do six and six. >> can they mix it? >> i'm saying based on the history of the last election cycle, the biggest election -- -- the biggest election is to be on the prime time debate. >> most of the candidates we've mention have had made trips to iowa. they all go to iowa, and, of course, new hampshire. long shot possible candidates
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have taken multiple trips to iowa for the caucuses. this includes john hickenlooper, and former maryland governor and 2016 candidate martin o'malley. senator jeff merkley and john delaney have announced he's running. and mayor pete buttigieg, and michael avenatti and tom steyer. i always thought trump has the support of the angry white guy. i didn't think there were that many to win the key states. there were. i'm not willing to write off outsiders. i mean a nonpolitician like a cube snn. >> the rules are out the window. >> schultz? >> it's the candidate who excites the voters. this is democracy in action. we've seen a breakup of the
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strength of the party system over the course of the last dozen or so years due no part to citizen's united. at the moment what you've got is voters deciding and donors. >> are they going to have a chance for voters to see them? i do think in this uber crowded field, what may be also a key determinant is who gets in there the earliest and gobbles up all the best talent and makes all of the connections and all the money. there's already stories running about there being a staffed talent shortage in the state of iowa because there are so many people starting to go there and recruit. >> let me say something boring. new york. i have been in this business so many years. longer than you even, donna. and i always notice in the end, it's like the yankee's. they get all the publicity and all the players. they have attitudes about the players. if you have that new york media thing behind you like hillary clinton had. if you have it like kirsten
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gillibrand, i think there's power behind that. i would think one of those candidates is going to be a new york candidate, whether it's kiersten or mike bloomberg. do you notice this? >> three new york candidates. >> who is the other? andrew? >> yes. if you have three, all of a sudden the nonnew york candidates are in the race for new york. so it's -- >> the new york media market in jersey. i want to go back to jonathan's point. for a few days oprah's name was bantered about. and while she didn't take the bite, there's an appetite for somebody different, totally different. >> michelle? >> well, look, i like michelle. >> after this tour? >> after this tour, after selling out 12 arenas, she's a rock star even without running. >> don't you think a lot of that type now, and again, donald trump changed and created the model for doing that. don't you think a lot of them
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sit there and say and look at everything going on in the country, why do i need this? look at followers, engaged followers on facebook. oprah is in a different st stratosphere. she has more -- >> she's not running. i used to say this about collin powell. someone said he always looks good. the minute he comes out an guns, he loses half the people. then abortion rights. then by the time you're done, you've lost almost everybody. >> rudy giuliani learned that in 2008. >> i love this. it's going to matter soon. up next, signs of life for democrats in the midwest. many of the states that flipped red for trump two years ago flipped back blue this time. how serious a threat is that to trump's reelection? how good does that look for somebody from the midwest? amy klobuchar is looking interesting for a lot of people. and sherrod brown just got reelected handily in ohio.
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the toughest of those states for democrats. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪ whoa! the mercedes-benz winter event is back, and you won't want to stop for anything else. lease the gla 250 for $359 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. the united explorer card makes things easy. traveling lighter. taking a shortcut. woooo! taking a breather. rewarded! learn more at the explorer card dot com. and if you get lost, just hit me on the old horn. man: tom's my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house...
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(boy) hey look, i got it. bounty, the quicker picker upper. in 20 16 donald trump toppled the blue wall in states that have long eluded his party. two years later democrats in the
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same states september contests for governor and senator. the trump hold on or will democrats take back those 46 electoral votes in 2020? i'm back with heidi przybyla, john, donna, and jonathan. pennsylvania, ever since penn state joined the big 10, it's a midwest state. and coming from philly, i know i'm not really in pennsylvania. it starts around redding. but here's the question. has trump got a hold on that like on the south? i don't think he has a hold on the midwest? >> i don't think anybody does. throw out ohio. ohio is not going to vote the same as michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. i think he won it by ten points. the second thing what people don't understand. i've seen this in all the states. donald trump did x in 2016. and the republican candidates
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did y, much lower in 2018. therefore, it was a referendum on trump. they don't like trump anymore. trump was a third party candidate to many of those voters. they are sons and daughters of reagan democrats. just because they voted for trump didn't mean they were a republican voter. many of the voters, i believe will come back to donald trump. >> if they have the wrong kind of democrat. >> the minute they voted barack obama, i believe the message and messenger will matter in terms of democrats. >> you say the same thing. these things are not galvanized new republicans. they are people on the fence. >> they are on the fence. i think it matters who we select as our nominee if the democrats can regain the states and rebuild that blue wall. >> our recommendation is hillary clinton. if you could choose to do that for us, we would be -- >> i'm going to force you to do this. this is on the tape right now. why do republicans hate hillary? >> wait a minute. i want to be clear.
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hillary lost pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin, and michigan. how? democrats voted for donald trump. not -- the republicans didn't put him over. democrats put him over. >> i have street credit here. i'm from michigan. in michigan what we saw was not so much -- well, what we saw democrats previous reagan democrats voting. but we also saw real democrats, the base not turn out. this is to donna's point. everything depends on who you choose. you're right, john. this is a midterm election. and so you can't say trump necessarily lost. he did hold the rural vote and can get those people back out again. what can democrats do? they can also get their people out depending on who the nominee is if, for instance, let's say you choose someone like a sherrod brown. >> does it have to be someone who dramatizes it? >> no. it has to be someone who will renigr unite the working class.
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somebody like maybe sherrod brown could be capable of doing that. >> recession? >> i wouldn't rule out -- >> i wouldn't rule out amy klobuchar and some of the other democrats as being able to reach those voters. >> sherrod brown and amy klobuchar. your thoughts? >> no john's point, ohio went about 10 points for trump and sherrod brown just won it comfortably. six points or so. he's got that feel. i've long thought that hillary clinton's best running mate in 2016 would have been -- >> absolutely. he went to yale, but he doesn't let it show. okay? he has that working guy's gruff voice. he comes off as a labor kind of guy. i think he has the message which is keep -- be okay. be solid on the social issues, put economics out front. i a in those states they're risk proned to the economy. they want to know their president is on their side on trade issues and things like
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that. anyway, few voters nationwide, only 25% report trump's trade policies have helped their local economies. according to an nbc exit poll, when you look at voter's opinions by region, one-third of those in the east and midwest report their economies have been hurt by trump's trade policies. only voters in the south report trump's trade policies helped their local economy. john, on this your point? working guys like bobby case y and sherrod brown, they're the same on trump that for social security, medicare, medicaid, leave them alone, and jobs somewhere near so kids will come home. they're synchronized. does a democrat have to be synchronized on that to win those states from trump? >> possibly. the paradox is that's not going to be a primary issue for the democrats. you're talking about the issues, sherrod brown could talk into and others about how well they might be for them in the general election. it doesn't matter.
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whatever candidate comes out of the democrat nomination is not going to be because of issues like trade. >> as you know trade could. it's tied to the economy. >> in 2016. >> it could be one of those issues that will galvanize. >> you don't think it will be health care? >> health care, social security. >> i think it depends on the state. there were layoffs in michigan. will any republicans step up in 2020? will there be a fighter inside the party to topple him? you're watching "hardball".
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welcome back to "hardball". widespread concern about the direction this president is taking the country has weakened trump's reelection prospects in 2020, i think. someone from his own party could further complicate his kanss of becoming a two termer. jeff flake of arizona, a critic
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of the president, left open the possibility of challenging trump. saying i'm not ruling it out or in. somebody needs to run on the republican side. by encouraging a primary challenge, flake has changed his tune since he ruled out that possibility of a presidential run on this show last year. >> are you going to run for president? >> no. no. i'm -- >> sure? this is "hardball". i've got to do this. >> with the last name flake, how far can you go? >> with a name like smucker's, it's got to be good. >> flake is along several republicans whose names have been floated among candidates. also john kasich. kasich weighed in on the prospect just before the midterms. let's listen to the governor. >> are you going to primary donald trump? >> you know, i don't -- right now how do you think a primary
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would go? not great. >> you're going to run as an independent? >> all options are on the table. >> we're back with heidi przybyla, donna brazile and john baybrener. when you're challenged within your party for the renomination for a second term, look out. you're probably not going to get reelected. your thoughts? >> i think gerald ford would have thoughts on that and jimmy carter. you're right. it's definitely bad news. >> george senior too. >> george senior had a problem as well. i think the biggest danger for donald trump is not a primary from his own party but an independent from his own party that takes votes away and denies him the presidency by pulling votes away and n big states and prevents him for winning those from the electoral party. >> i've never seen your party, john, so united. i'm not sure it's healthy. i checked after the primary, after the midterms. 91% of your rank and file voters
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say they're with trump. i've never seen anything like that. does that mean no matter how difficult things get in this, he's still going to end up with no challenge? >> if he ran against john kasich today in ohio for governor, trump would win by 30 points. there's no doubt about it. if you go look at the kpet polls from the last elections, pennsylvania you know well as a good example. barletta ran as donald trump in the senate. he got 88% of the republican vote. 88%. there's no buyer remorse among republicans. the problem is donald trump loses some of the votes and has to make them up among conservative -- >> how does he get those well educated women back after they decide they don't like him?
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>> they -- you'll hear a lot of candidates talk about i don't want to make this about donald trump the person. i want to make this about donald trump the agenda which we can get behind. >> what do you think, heidi? >> i think john's right. this is not about a primary challenge. this is about a potential independent candidacy. that will all depend on who the democrats are veering toward. it's just like with mike bloomberg in 2016. he waited to see who the democrats were veering toward. since it was hillary clinton, a moderate candidate and not bernie sanders, he held back. i think it will be the same thing as this process plays out. there will be people who wait in the wings for a potential independent candidate. >> who is this independent person? i don't know anybody right now. >> there's a reason to be worried about somebody like nikki haley who might be appealing to the middle. she wouldn't run as an independent, but who knows. he might throw mike pence off the ticket.
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>> let's speak about haley. i say what about nikki haley as the paradigm for the woman presidential candidate? >> i think she has a lot of appeal. she's a woman of color from a southern state. i think she can appeal to the middle. >> actually, nikki haley specifically ruled out the possibility of running for president when she resigned as ambassador at the u.n. let's watch. >> i will say this. for all of you that are going to ask about 2020, no, i am not running for 2020. i can promise you what i'll be doing is campaigning for this one. i look forward to supporting the president in the next election. >> that is not only tough but cute. this one here. i mean, this one. i'm sorry. i've never seen anybody do that before. pointing to the president. this one here. >> she'll be a force to be reckoned with in 2024 if she runs. she's got now the foreign policy portfolio to add to her state level experience.
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a woman of color from a southern state on the republican side. she could be this nation's first woman president. >> what strikes me about her as a pure political talent, she pulled down the flag ahead of everybody. and when somebody said she was confused, she stopped them and said i don't get confused. there's something about her. she gets on the galloping horse of history. she doesn't let it go past her. she she have a -- does she have a shot if trump quits? >> who knows. >> yeah. >> there's no doubt -- >> nikki and michael pence, who wins? >> they're close friends. i don't know where that would go. >> break my heart. come on. >> it's an interesting battle. i'd like to think they'd be running together as a pence/haley ticket. she's a rising star in the republican party. in a difficult time she did a great job and did it with grace. and we don't see that often
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these days. >> well, maybe she'll get an even bigger job in this administration. there's also been pressure on ben sass of nebraska to mount a primary challenge. he's said the prospect is pretty unlikely. >> what are the odds that you will launch a primary challenge to president trump or run as an independent and run for president yourself in 2020? >> i think the odds are a lot higher that i run for the noxious weed control board in nebraska. i lived on a bus for 16 months five years ago. in my mind i have flash backs of a lot of kid puke on the floor of a bus. i don't think a lot about what job i have. i'm pretty happy living in nebraska and going to d.c. five days a week trying to serve the best way i can. >> that was the nice image. >> yeah. >> flash backs from the noxious weeds. >> i don't even know where to go here. >> i don't see it. i think there's a void right now
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in the senate with the death of john mccain for the type of voice that he provided. and he's a young guy. >> will mitt romney step up and play that role? >> it's not that easy to say you're going to play that role in the republican party. i'm not sure mitt has to relationship to make that happen. running in a primary is a lot of fun. there's no opposition. you meet a lot of people. you go to iowa. they're not voting for anybody until they meet each candidate three times. it really isn't as difficult as he makes it. running for president in primaries is kind of fun as long as you can afford it. >> it's fun covering them. it's a resort. >> but it's grueling. getting to know people, sleeping in cities -- >> you work harder -- >> i love it. i love covering those people. >> the round table is sticking with us. up next, a history lesson about
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the position trump may find himself in next year. you're watching "hardball". your mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened.
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when the guy inown front slams on his brakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. how mature of them! for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ welcome back. even if president trump manages to defeat a republican candidate vying for the republican nomination against him in 2020, there could still be consequences. that's because history shows incumbent presidents who have faced primary challenges from within their own party don't fare very well in the general election come november. in 1992 president george herbert
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walker bush had to defend himself against patrick buchanan. he later lost to bill clinton. in 1980 president jimmy carter was dogged by a challenge from senator ted kennedy. he beat kennedy, but lost to ronald reagan that november. gerald ford faced a tough primary challenge, and eventually lost to carter. president johnson was weakened by the candidacy of eugene mccarthy, and dropped out of the race. we're back with heidi, jonathan, donna and john. let's talk about the president and his own party, how does he stand? is this all over, no matter what happens, is trump the nominee of the republican party, if he chooses to be so? >> if he's on the ballot and he runs, he's going to be the nominee of the republican party. if you've seen a narrowing of the republican party, but they're very excited about him to the joint john was making earlier. 90% of republicans are with donald trump. that's not going to change. he's got them. nobody's going to pull that away
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from him. the danger to him is an independent candidacy that is aimed as a kamikaze mission to keep him from staying president. >> what is the sticky glue that keeps him popular? >> it's conservative republicans that matter when it comes to this. that's the base. and so number one, he gave them tax cuts. number two, he got them two supreme court justices. and number three, as mike pence there as his vice president. conservatives are sitting there and saying for us, this president's been fabulous. they're not going to look among their ranks and say who can we all get behind to take this guy out. >> he's also free to pollute the world, right? there's no more regulations. >> if you want to get into environment, go for it. but i'm just saying he is extremely popular, i would even say loved among these groups and therefore there is not going to be another candidate against donald trump. i would suggest that everybody just get that out of their minds now. >> so the democratic happy hunting ground is not republican votes next time, it's -- who is it, independents? >> independents. >> get the democrats to vote.
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>> independents and also expanding the electorate, getting more young people out there to vote and making sure we choose a candidate that cannot just unite the democratic party but also inspire the rest of the country. >> that's a hell of a standard. >> well, i mean, we have no other choice. donald trump, i was surprised, looking at some of the exit polls, and i was -- i'm like, he is popular in florida. he is popular. i thought he was doomed after several of his missteps. but he's not. he's popular among the republican base. therefore democrats have to not just unify the party, but the candidate must also inspire the independents, millennials and others. >> what allows this candidate, the president of the united states, to get through all these daily things that most people say he's finished now, he's gone, one after another, he's gone, he's gone. he just said something that's racial, that's terrible, he's gone. >> in a word, tribalism, maybe. i mean, to donna's point i think whoever emerges has to, like i
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said before, unite the working class. that was the one thread that we saw between bernie krats and trumpsters was that they really believed in this message of the forgotten man and that whole trade message. and economic advancement. >> the american people are not greedy. they just want what they have, social security, medicare, medicaid, and a job for their kids. that's what people want in scranton, that's all they want. give it to them. heidi przybyla -- this is "hardball" where the action is. >> what we're witnessing every day is the story of our time. >> what's going on behind the scenes at the white house today? >> he could find him 168 in jail. >> he couldn't do this without the best reporters. >> can you find out who's writing on this? >> this one to me is a whole new level. >> take cue one. >> we're going to try to give you the best review of this day
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in the life of this presidency. ♪ ♪ ♪ no matter when you retire, your income doesn't have to. see how lincoln can help ensure you still have income every month of your retirement, guaranteed, at americans rose up this november and rejected donald trump. more unhinged by that than ever, this president declared war on the rule of law.
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but you gave democrats the power to hold him in check. a majority vote in the house can impeach him and expose his lawless behavior for all to see. they just need the will. please join over six million americans and together we can give congress the courage to act. then, we can begin building a more just and prosperous future.
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that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> i am not really shocked or surprised by anything that he may say or do. >> defeating trump. >> you can't let them take your hope away. that's the energy. >> yeah. >> how the democrats won big in november. >> if you love your country you fight for people who make it work. >> what it will take to beat trump in 2020. >> we need to restore our democracy to the people. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. it has become more and more clear since the midterm elections that blue wave people talked about was not just real, but enormous. and now for the first time since donald trump took office democrats are on the cusp of having real power in the federal