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tv   Up With David Gura  MSNBC  December 2, 2018 6:00am-7:01am PST

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gentler nation he thought if the nation were to get any kinder it would cease to exist. >> i'm not a fanover bush. >> jeb bush or hillary clinton? >> poor jeb bush, low energy. it's sad. and i respectfully say i beat the bush dynasty. >> president bush revealed the feeling was mutual. he said i don't like him. he is a blow hard driven by ego. >> your dad when he watches the debate some times throws a shoe. >> he doesn't aim very well, but y. >> the spotlight in the wreak of
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mourning for the president. >> out of respect for president bush we cancelled it and we'll have it back in washington some time after the funeral service. >> he is eager to talk about what he sees as a successful g20. most want to ask him about a string of bad headlines to argentina and back early this morning. his former lawyer pleading guilty to lying. the return of the parting dangle coupled with praise and continued speculation about the future of robert mueller's investigation. up with me this hour is a former spokesman and a columnist. he is author of the book "branding america". we have aiesha and christin.
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i this start with you. let me ask you about this week of mourning we expect. there was an open question if president trump and his wife were to attend we know they will be at the funeral in washington d.c. >> they are going to be at that funeral. president trump has declared wednesday a national day of mourning. as you pointed out, it comes after those stark tensions. what we witnessed yesterday was sorts. you're absolutely right in that president trump really spent the day paying tribute to his former predecessor wondering a bilateral meeting and then again at that dinner with president of
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china. he maized former president george h.w. bush calling him a great man talking about the fact he was looking forward to paying tribute and the other revolution that he reached out personally. that is significant because of all of the tensions that you mentioned, because there was a bitter battle between candidate trump and candidate jeb bush. the president making the decision to put the tensions aside. he didn't attend the funeral of barbara bush or john plaque cane but clearly he thinks it is important for him to attend this funeral of one of his former predecessors. i would make the point that what we are seeing on display is the divide in the republican party, the moderate branch versus the pop list branch. this new era and the fact that former h.w. bush represented
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that more moderate branch. so president trump is back here at the white house today. he doesn't have any events on his public schedule. we'll be watching to see if he weighs in there. >> thank you very much. let me ask you what she is talk thereabout. this being a moment which the more conservative part is with the republican party. she mentioned senator john mccain. it feels like we have been here before and not many months ago. there was a degree in the republican party. >> yeah. i do want to go back to something she said. she is talking about how the president decided and made the choice to show up and be presidential which is what she would be doing. i'm glad he reached out. if any sitting president wouldn't have called the family of a former sitting president that passed away that would be huge. i fund us given the president
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credit for being human and being a leader and we shouldn't. he created so much of this divide. i'm hopeful, i appreciate the fact that we are continuing. i did not agree with george bush's policies but he was certainly an american war hero. he had a certain level of patriotism he brought to the job. i'm hopeful it will have some influence on this president who has not shown up to the office in the way that a president should. >> are you optimistic as well? do you have this same hope that there will be a lasting change as a result of this? >> everybody hopes so. i think everybody hopes there will be more civility. i will tell you that i think oddly enough when president trump was running and really hit below the belt he didn't attack
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anyone on policy. he didn't attack jeb push on policy. >> just on sleepiness? >> well, he attacked him personally, small hands. you know, being low energy. so what i think is that even though he cut jeb bush down i think he has respect for the bush family. when he was talking on that clip he said i defeated the bush dynasty. when you're referring to that you think you were a big deal to defeat that. i think he respects the bush family. i'm glad that he reached out. it would have ban really bizarre moment if he did not reach out and contact any of the bushes to send his condolences. i think going forward with this unity i would like to see it continuing. the odds of it continuing probably is zero because it will
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be back to business as usual. >> do you share that pessimism? i'm thinking him saying he respects one aspect of it. >> yes. >> it is not a personal respect necessarily. >> no. >> his comment was how he beat them. it was all about president trump. is trump going to stay off of twitter? is he going to resist the temptation that he wants to sound off on? i don't think he will be able to. i think for if five times he acted like the president of the united states we all sit here and go exactly. >> he showed up and did your job today. should we give you a round of applause? you're so great for coming today and being on television. >> yeah. >> it's a much bigger issue here. when you compare george bush and the bush family to donald trump and the donald trump family, that is so stands out. george bush was all about public
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service. he was a world war ii hero. he was shot down during the war. his whole life was about public service and serving the public good. >> they had humility. >> as john f. kennedy said don't ask what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. the bushes lived that through. the trump family is all about how much money can we make off of their businesses. that is the biggest problem we are facing right now with donald trump and that's why he should not be in office. >> this is an issue and there are a lot of people that say
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it's a lot happening. these are men who had faults as well. you are comparing him to president trump to ignore a lot of that because of what he is is describing. his approach to public service, his approach to the job that he did. >> there is a conversation he had about character and who they were and that's conversation to be had about what they did. those things overlap of course. i'm never going to forgive the fact that he gave us thomas. we could go on and on and on but i totally agree that we are at a moment in time where this opportunity to reflect on what our democracy means, what it looks like, what is showing up to your job as an elected official, as leader of the free world should feel and look like,
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the respect for the white house. it's a great time for us to be reminded that these jobs are consequential. so you should have so much humility. you should approach it as the most serious thing you ever done and you should be representing the people. donald trump could give two cares about us. he is the person who is going to save and he is the one who is doing and he is earning, right? >> but there are. there are people that really believe in donald trump and donald trump made a lot of promises to his base and he -- the base feels like that he has delivered on that. you know, his slogan when he was campaigning is promises made, promises kept. i think that's why you're seeing a continuance in popularity with his base. they feel like that they have
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gotten their good out of him. i feel like his base is pretty solid. i think that even in the midterms when you saw it it was very close. you saw it inch out in some races because of donald trump and his popularity. >> back to the sense of character is that because you have a guy who delivers for white supreme sis it does not make it fundamental to our values as americans. i want to be really clear that just because people -- some people like donald trump it doesn't mean those folks are the soul of america. >> think about the contrast between president george h.w. bush, i never felt they were only talking to one-third of the country at any point in time. donald trump only talks to those people and everyone else is excluded. i think that's a very very different type of tone that we have seen from this president
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and as we think about his legacy i don't think anyone could question his devotion for wanting to do what he believed to be right for the american people and i don't think donald trump thinks about that at all. >> and even worse, he has no sense of history. one thing that george bush had was a sense of history. he knew his place in history. he knew how important it was to continue the nato alliance. he knew how important world war ii was in terms of defining the world as we have had it today. donald trump couldn't pass a sixth grade civics exam. he does not make decisions on what the world has come to and where we are going. he has no sense as an american as to what we are about. >> he has a gut. >> he does have a gut. we saw president george h.w. bush by not going. you left the republican party. talk a bit about how republicans
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protest in the year 2018 against donald trump, against what they don't like. how loud were the protests? how big a deal was it that you didn't have a lifelong republican going to that convention and standing alongside donald trump. >> i think it was a very unprecedented situation. i think it shows people who have done absolutely nothing as donald trump destroyed the fabric of this country. this is the part we used to talk about. we need to have balanced budgets and not have trade wars and on and on and on. it has ban complete rejection of conservatism. i hope as people celebrate the legacy some of these republicans, now that they have lost their seats that maybe some of them will actually find their real voice and say what they say
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behind the scenes at private events to all of us, talk about what they don't like going on and take part of their party back. what they are doing is unsustainable. it will lead them to being in the minority. new details on the mueller investigation and the correspondence and the russian government. first, good news and bad news from giuliani an that investigation. - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations, so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free.
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he has no financial relationship? >> that's what i said. that's what our position is. >> manafort with a shakey response. >> bob mueller is accusing of crimes and lies and not ruling out slapping manafort with new charges. manafort is a key figure in the
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expanding russia probe. he was at the meeting. let's take a look at key events that lead to the meeting. it was initiated by this man who e-mailed don jr. his response, if it's what you say, i love it. he loved it so much a week later he was join bid med by manafort. the three men closest to trump's campaign allegedly never briefed him on the meeting. wikileaks publishing the e-mails four days after trump jr. messaged him asking what's behind this leak i keep reading about which puts the focus on these two men, what they knew about the clinton campaigns. he said he lied and is ready to die in jail. roger stone who said ahead of this wikileaks.
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>> i actually have communicated with them. i think it pertains to the clinton foundation. there's no telling what the october surprise may be. >> it is a complicated game of telephone. did they share that information with president trump or as mueller referred to him, individual number one. let's bring the panel back in. i want to have you react to all of that. there's so much to keep track of. we are looking forward to filings this week. what should we be focused on? we also know during that period of time donald trump, two days before the trump tower meeting after he wins the new jersey primary says he will hold a
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press conference to detail all of the bad stuff about the clintons. he doesn't do that. he doesn't do it because somebody talked t-- some sense into him. it is a federal crime. so what happens? a few days later the stuff is roger stone is really donald trump's hatchet plan. they came up with a plot where he was supposedly fired in early or late -- >> giving the illusion. >> right. it was to give plausible deniability to do whatever he had to do under cover for the campaign and then what happens but they use all of the stolen e-mails to help donald trump get
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elected. that's what goes on during this time from june, july, august. they are using wiki leaks as a campaign boiler room that normally reacts to problems that come up during a campaign. after the access hollywood tape what do they do? within hours they are releasing e-mails that were stolen relating to hillary clinton's campaign manager. so and in the course of all of this they are also making sure that the republican platform is watered down with respect to sanctions on crimea. all of this that comes out this week is that all of a sudden they have him pleading to something relating to the russian investigation. the reason a prosecutor does that is because he is about to bring an indictment that will relate to that subject matter. if you have somebody that will be a cooperating witness you want them relating to that
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overall conspiracy which is basically the same conspiracy that mueller had the russians, the 13 russian opreratives indicted on in july of last year. if you look at the scope of that conspiracy which is not only the breaking end to the democratic national committee and stealing those e-mails but also the staging and release which is exactly what donald trump, roger stone and the rest of this crew was involved in. >> you're taking all of this in getting that full story from nick. the president has said that. it seems like it is growing in size and growing in magnitude. as you look ahead to these filings we'll see this week. >> a lot of people are worried as well as the president. i think that you can't help but be worried, any of us, if there
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was anything going on with any of us and everyone around you, you know, was either subject to investigation or indicted or -- you can't help -- >> it's not a good look. >> but worry. >> also, another thing is giuliani, when they had the written answers that he had to give he has already filled this out. then you have cohen that, you know, agrees to go full throttle on what they need. he has answer to questions. we don't know what mueller has. he has a unique way of keeping everything close to the vest. so you don't know. >> yes. >> and let me quote donald trump on this. you should be asking donald trump for his answers. there is no legal impediment to donald trump providing to the press what he provided to mueller. >> yes. >> we should be looking at what
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donald trump says on these issues. >> all right. president trump, if you're listening, heeding his advice there. will the meeting actually happen this week after a year of heat heated rhetoric? that's coming up. trump's christmas decorations took a lot of heat. saturday night live defended her in its own way. >> sure, the trees look like jagged teeth in the blazing hot mouth of satan himself. if hillary won bill would have been doing the decorating so that hall would be 100% leg lamps. (vo) gopi's found a way to keep her receipts tidy,
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he was schedule today meet to keep the federal government open. as you may remember, a week on crime and when it substantially raised taxes. meeting cancelled.
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>> they have been all talk and they have been no action. >> we are all here as a very friendly well unified group. >> pelosi will meet with president trump on tuesday. the agenda is largely the same. a bit of news ton shut down front discussing a budget deal while washington and the country prepares. >> what are folks thinking might come of this meeting? you have democrats looking forward. how does it change this as they go into the meeting on tuesday? >> we are in the moment that happens right after an election where one party takes over part of congress that everyone is feeling each other out. it is kind of like the first
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moments of the eighth grade school dance. >> yeah. they are eyeing each other. no one wants to be the one to, you know, break the bipartisan veneer and bring the one back to total gridlock. democrats have no incentive to cave on any of these things. so, you know, for trump what he can get in next few weeks after the house actually changes control we'll have to see. i wouldn't expect a huge breakthrough. >> how do you see that? >> i think it is very thin. i think she is the person that has gotten the most done in probably this generation. she knows what she is doing and
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how to negotiate. i think it doesn't mean it's just a venn neaeer. no one intended to give donald trump a wall. so he can go and ask the mexican president for the money he said. he will make mexico pay for the wall. i think part of that conversation, the delicacy a that we need to government to run. and so there has to be some coming to terms around something in order for us to keep the government open. i think there's some kind of staged approach. it is a staged approach that perhaps the democrats agree to something that comes down around maybe building a wall that three or four or five months out when we get into the new congress could be dialled back. >> here we are. it has been a few months to keep the government open again. you were working on the hill. let's talk about what's normal now.
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there was some speculation, kwig as it was, that we would see a return to normal order. that seems like it's a done thing. does it provide any leverage? >> here is a reality. the new reality is funding by short term resolutions. we haven't had a budget passed in probably a decade. we'll get to the brink and everyone comes in and comes to some three month extension to carry it in. i think, you know, you guys are right. no incentive to give trump anything. they will not give him a border wall funding. if there's any type of resolution it will have to include the separation of children and families as well. we'll see how it plays out. don't discount how it plays. if things go south he will not hesitate to try to distract people away from the mueller probe. zb you're so optimistic. let me have you weigh in here. >> i'll tell you, if nothing gets down on immigration, if it
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is in a lock standstill there's two things. number one it will enforce the republicans to take back the house in two years. they will say nothing has been done. it is total gridlock. the other thing of it is it is going to define the message of the democrats of not doing anything. they campaigned on health care and a lot of other issues if nothing gets done then a lot of constituents voted these people into office, they say we want to get things done. >> what they will get done is that they will love that. all right. coming up here starts to crystallize. we separate fact from fiction.
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>> welcome back. there are parts of the so called steel dossier that read like a novel. it alleged russia has compromising information on president trump. we are learning some of the less allegations are true. remember former fbi director james comey sounding the alarm on abc news. >> you can't say for certain that the president of the united states is not compromised by the russians. >> it is stunning but it's the truth. it's possible. >> all right. let's compare what we learned
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from the plea deal with one of the allegations prepared by christopher steel. in the so called dossier we read he was levly engaged in a cover up in the attempt to prevent full details with russia being exposed. let's compare it is what he pleaded guilty to. ken, i know you found your way through. nick has his copy as well involving post-it notes. let me start with you cht get us up to speed here. help us understand how much in court this week. >> i will find this note of skepticism. it is a key component of the coverup cht it referred to the
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alleged conspiracy, not covering up a trump tower moscow deal. he was a key figure between the trump campaign and russia. stepping back it is raw intelligence. it was gathered by a former british intelligence officer. he was relying on sources inside russia. it is logic that many details would be inaccurate. the larger point is that steel knew perhaps even before the u.s. intelligence community knew that the russians had an ongoing operation. it was in the dossier and it is absolutely true. the dossier makes about six main including the trump campaign that have not yet proven true.
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given the tapestry of evidence that robert mueller has gathered over the months of this investigation we can all sorlt of conclude that it is much more logical and likely that some of these things are in fact true than when we started. it is much easier to believe these things are the case. in fact that it had advanced knowledge of wikileaks. we still haven't seen evidence that they have provided that to the trump campaign but we know from documents they had advanced knowledge that the russians had hacked. i think we are many steps closer. what nick sketched out before the break was what he thinks happened. i want viewers to understand that's not yet proved. there is so far no evidence that the trump tower meeting played any role in the conspiracy theory. >> i want to have you respond to that. >> absolutely.
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there are a number of telephone calls that came after the gold stone e-mail where they were trying to get this information and they were going to bring it personally to russia. they were going to say they decided it had to be released there a different way. let's start with the dossier. first of all to understand what it is i think christopher steel was the number one person in russian and british intelligence that was into the russians. he was in charge of m-16 which overlooked the whole russian intelligence. he later left and went into private practice. they go out and they do private investigations. what this really is are interviews he has done with
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russian government officials that he put together. he doesn't identify them by name. he refers to them as sources. he doesn't want to burn the sources and they provide information. what's absolutely interesting here, if you take the cohen guilty plea, the one item you did not put up on the screen, and this is in september -- i'm sorry, in june of 2016 when michael cohen says they were dealing with trump tower in russia. this is what christopher steel has with respect offering various sources. so far trump declined various business deals in order to further the kremlin's cultivation. they have accepted a regular flow of intelligence including on his democratic and other political rivals. it describes what nthey were
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doing keeping in touch with the russians but yet at the same time they were taking these e-mails that were stolen from the democratic national committee and using those to assist the trump campaign and to assist trump getting elected. >> okay. so the similarities we are finding here and what it says to you about the course of the whole investigation. >> yes. if you see or smell smoke there is probably a fire somewhere. it is so complicated but it doesn't take a genius to get that trump wanted to win and there were other people who thought it made sense if they didn't want hillary clinton to win they could help trump win. that's what happened here. there's a relationship around that. >> they lobbied corporations to get retainers. >> after the election. >> yes. >> this is proof that he works for trump and he also works for
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himself and cuts side deals. >> and the whole idea about the real estate and using that to cultivate trump and even that portion you quoted from where he is trying to cover up what was going on with e-mails, that's what he did with stormy daniels and nobody knew about that before christopher steel came along with this report. he wuk making sure that it would not come out before the dam pain. >> we'll leave it there. thanks so much for joining us from washington d.c. the rest of the panel will stick around. still ahead, trump is about the art of the deal more coming up next. helped put a roof over the heads
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applebee's bigger bolder grill combos are back. now that's eatin good in the neighborhood. >> welcome back. he was running for president donald trump spun a web about attempts to in russia. we are unwinding that web. we learned new details from michael cohen. let's take a look back at how
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donald trump's narrative evolved in 2016. >> i have nothing to do with russia. >> she always likes to tie me in with russia. >> i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia because we have stayed away. >>away. >> how many times do i have to answer this question? russia is a ruse. >> he put out a statement talking about a project which was essentially, i guess, more or less of an option, that we were looking at in moscow, everybody knew about it, it was written about in newspapers. i didn't do the project. i decided not to do the project. >> well, in fact, donald trump's interest in russia dates back about 30 years. there were discussions about a luxury hotel across the street from the kremlin back in 1986 and there were visions of other hotels and residential buildings in moscow and st. petersburg. joining me now is jesse eisenberg with propublica and co-host of the podcast i recommend to everybody, trump
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ink. jesse, what did we learn this week, what more did we learn that this family had to build in russia. there was that amazing piece in the "wall street journal" that this really went back 30 plus year. what really was it about russia for donald trump, what made it so attractive to him and the trump organization? >> it was a tantalizing place for a long time, pre the wall coming down. as you say, this was before the model went international. really. so they were trying to build a hotel. and then, of course, the revelation this week is that it continued well into the election, into the point where trump had secured the nomination. so, so it's a consistent pattern here. what i think that people don't understand is the trump organization business model. and that's been a kind of puzzle to me that this has remained this kind of mystery, at least, for the public. so what happens is, you know,
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he's not a real estate developer. kind of a fourth tier real estate developer, but only until the mid-2000s and then he has all this series of bankruptcies. and then the second story comes, that he's supposedly a licenser. you know, you sell your license abroad and it's a hands-off thing, you -- and then the developers develop the properties. that's not true, either. what we've -- we've shown, propublica wnyc has shown repeatedly is that he is a facilitator, he is a middleman. and what they do is they market and they raise money and they are highly involved. and what happened was ivanka -- it was revealed that ivanka was going to secure the architect for the trump moscow deal. now, what's important about this is, who are they facilitating? what are they actually doing? well, they're raising money from money launderers. from criminals. from dodgy characters.
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and they're also serially lying about the -- they lie around the world. ivanka, donny trump jr., trump, they lie about how many units they've sold. they're lying about material things. >> like trump soho, in other words. >> yes. >> exact same thing. >> the trump soho model goes international. and the trump soho, which propublica and wnyc showed last year, they were being criminally investigated for fraud. because they were making material misrepresentations and it was ivanka, donny trump jr. they had e-mails, and we wrote about this, they have e-mails where they say, well, we can't say that it's 60% sold this week, because we said that last week. we've got to up the number. when it was actually 15% sold. >> how common is this practice, though, among people that do business like the trump family? meaning, you know, selling the brand, selling the name so that, you know -- >> that kind of licensing.
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>> because before he got into office sore some think it's still okay, but the brand was a pretty strong brand. when you saw trump property, you knew it was first class, you knew it was going to be nice, you know, the inside of the hotel, the property was going to be up to standards. so is this a practice -- >> that's not true about the soho. it was like a little -- >> in general. in general. >> it was a dump! >> so of course, there is a licensing model. hotel companies use it all the time, ritz carlton. >> so how hands-on do you have to be with all of it? >> so with their -- they're more hands-on about the marketing, because they were the marketing face. and what they were saying was, they went around saying things like, implying that they actually had equity in the buildings when they didn't. >> right, but is that a crime? >> yes. >> that can be a crime. that can be -- >> i want to know. >> if it's material and if it's a lie, that's a crime. if you've sucked people in to buy. and what you're doing is you're selling to russians, you know, and the russians want to -- or you're selling to dodgy
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characters around the world who want to launder their money into real estate. >> got it. >> and the developers are laundering money. >> jesse, thank you so much. jesse issenberg joining us here in new york. the podcast is trump inc. tonight, the global citizen festival celebrates nelson mandela's legacy on the 100th anniversary of his birth. don't miss appearances from trevor noah and oprah winfrey as well as performances by beyonce, jay-z, eddie verretter, ed shee and more. special coverage tonight at 9:00 only on msnbc. here's co-host trevor noah with a preview. >> we're celebrating what i believe is the beginning of that idea. because south africa is still in its fantasy. >> absolutely. >> we've only had democracy for, what, 30 years? that's a short amount of time. and so on that stage, in the presence of those people, for me, the triumph is that
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genuinely, i always try to appreciate and embody the freedoms that i have been afforded by those who fought and died before me. because i know it's not my work. >> straight ahead on msnbc, "a.m. joy," jonathan capehart and his guests will dig into that new evidence to the extent that donald trump was working with and maybe compromised by a foreign power. you're headed down the highway when the guy in front slams on his brakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. how mature of them! for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ if it feels like you live in the bathroom with recurring constipation and belly pain, talk to your doctor and say yesss! to linzess.
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"a.m. joy" with guest host jonathan capehart starts right now. >> so to be clear, mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs? >> that's what he said, i -- that's what i -- that's obviously what the proposition is. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm jonathan capehart in for joy reid, who's in south africa for the global citizen festival. the nation continues to mourn the death of president george h.w. bush, who died friday night at the age of 94. we'll have the latest on the plans for his memorials later this hour. but first, it was, shall we say, an active week in special counsel robert mueller's investigation, with new details unveiled about trump's efforts to build a trump tower moscow during the campaign and the lies he told ever since. it's clear mueller is connecting the dots and now we're finally getting a clearer glimpse at the big picture. my colleague, rachel maddow, is piecing the puzzle together


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