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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  December 6, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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it's been quite the emotional week for a lot of americans. we all said our goodbyes to george h. w. bush. those cannons were fired at the bush library as the 41st president was laid to rest next to his beloved wife and daughter. we will be back with more "mtp daily." >> good evening, chuck and thank you for that. we are covering a lot of big stories tonight. new pressure on trump family members. also, donald trump's hypocrisy put on blast today by an old undocumented housekeeper risking everything to speak out. i have a special report you dater tonight and his legacy and the lessons. we begin with the top stb.
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not one, but two guilty former trump aides. robert mueller and michael cohen. why he ripped up manafort's plea deal. they must explain the nature of the crimes and lies which you call the legal break up. manafort was account said of being a liane and a cheater and the head of a criminal experience. people already know that. what we don't know is what else he did after all of that. stuff that got the big deal with the special counsel blown up. then there is the other deadline. a recommendation for michael cohen and not only bob mueller who oversaw 70 hours of interviews, but crimes by the
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prosecutors in new york. that could be very interesting. it could reveal new intersections and suggest new names who could be in hot water in the special counsel probe which is why everybody republicans and democrats and partisans and everyone agreeing on know one thing. it's time to gear up for mueller friday. naund that, it's possible we won't learn anything tomorrow. that's because of this. mueller might not want us to know the information. he might not want us to see it just like he didn't with these filings. robert mueller can take any information or redact it or submit it under seal.
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the excitement that you are hearing right now is real. a lot of people as i mentioned are excited to find out what's going to be in the filings. it could be a lot and could be public. but no, it didn't mean that anything must be revealed. he can always show it to the judge without showing it to us. think about the white house is. they have no plan for how to handle the next stage. they are not even putting together even a draft plan that ripped up and the approach is more like and geez ug take the wheel, but scarier. then a piece of information news and today smling that the wikileaks founder julian assange could be extradited to the united states. that ties in with a lot of other loose ends.
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the former chief spokesman matt miller and a national political reporter from the "new york times" covering a lot of this. your view is at the intersection and that was your job. what can be public and what they make of it. how do you view that and where do you see it going? >> you are right what you allude to. that's reading between the redactions tomorrow. there are a couple of things we can hope to find out. i am most interested to see what the southern district of new york has to say. a few months ago, they stood up in court said the president of the united states violated campaign finance and we don't know about that since then. we hope we will find out and how significant it can be and the
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extent to which it's ongoing. the critical question is what were the lies he committed? were they related to lobbying business. if it's the latter, we will see it redacted. if it's the former, it's hope. it doesn't have anything to do with the investigation. that's a big question we should be looking for. >> your view is, if the lies relate to something that brings in michael cohen has the kind of thing that mueller may show to the judge saying these are big lies and not show to us. >> the lie with the president and the aspect of the russia investigation. that's what mueller is still investigating. more importantly he won't want the president or any other subjects to know.
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there is something that getting them out of the kranch and into the hundreds of a judge, if the investigation is shut down or ended, someone has the authority to make all of it public. >> joyce? >> matt is exactly right about this. from a prosecutor's point of view, you are hesitant not because you are trying to keep it concealed or disappoint people, but because you want the investigations to get to their conclusion. you want all of the evidence out there to get into your hands. people are aware if they are investigated or where you are headed. it can be difficult or dangerous for investigators. you will see prosecutors until
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everything is complete. there is a second layer of that and information you obtain through the grand jury can't be willie nilly until it becomes used in court or in certain other situations. prosecutors have to hold that closely. i'm afraid that that's what we will see tomorrow. it may be disappointing. you afraid as a news consumer who wants more exciting news? >> i think for us news consumers, it may not be great. he has been more forth coming in indictments. >> i would imagine. >> we are happy to have you so interested in interesting news days. they would be comfortable. it may be the most judicious way to proceed. >> that side is how not to
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reveal any information in the public. they are saying just a little bit. >> your view of all of the above and your view of rudy giuliani. that's so odd about his client. i will show you what he said. answering these questions was a nightmare and it took about weeks what would normally take two days. we have seen the indictments over the plea filings and we may not have the bombshell evening and from the news side. we have seen the special counsel be judicious and what he reveals and i expect that to continue on the question of the president's lawyer. rudy juligiuliani said we don'tw
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what to make of it. the president himself said previously that it was no problem for him to answer these questions and he did it all himself. we have the answer saying it was a nightmare and what that means. it's kind of unclear. giuliani attempted to posture through the media and that has always had the daylight with the president himself. just because the president's lawyer said one thing, we don't know how accurate that is and other times we don't know if it reflects the personal views. we will give you more for your analysis. that's known as a careful publicati publication. you don't use the l word, lie, liberally and throw out big attacks without the evidence. here's more of rudy. he sounds like he is being
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candid. when you look at everything that happened, the president devoted much energy rather than prepping for the mueller report. the thing that upetettes potus the most is the treatment of manafort. as an objective journalist, i wonder how you viewed that. trump himself tried to minimize not that i care about how he was treated and he was in it for himself. >> that squares with the statements we have seen from the president in the past. when i hear that, i think about how the president has used his account to encourage people like manafort or roger stone who defied the special anne arundel and he has prized their guts or loyalty. people are said to have worked
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more closely and seems like another example of that with the head and those around him are giving a thumbs up for those who stay at arm's length and say that the president has behavior that he admire and he said that himself. ecuador is signalling that assange might get prosecuted and there is a debate over whether they should be prosecuted for anything and there is a narrow debate over whether at some point wikileaks did something that looked more like state action looked like that on behalf of russia. ted malik is not a household name and they reached out to get to wikileaks and here is new reporting from the guardian
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saying mueller's investigators asked this academic about his frequent appearances with the closest reps with julian assange. do you see this as a place where mueller is finding a crime or he is just trying to get ducks in the row for people around wikileaks? >> there is something here. there is not the links in the chain. we know jerome sourcy told roger stone the timing and the rough timing in october and the content related to podesta about the wikileaks dump. we don't know where he got that information. he said he came up with that on his own. >> in mareness he said it was a divine intervention on a flight with his wife and it came to him and he knew it. i want to put that on the record.
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>> fair. maybe that's a better claim to reality. back in the real world, and the person he was going to reach out to and didn't get an answer. he was frequently on rt and went that day and there was a lot of speculation. that's to corsi to stone or what we don't know, what mueller's team will be trying to put together, interviewing everyone involved and we know they interviewed a number of them and trying to see whether they can put that together. if they can get their hands on assange, he is indicted if he is extradited. try to get him to cooperate as
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well. >> did you think there was a good chance at that point? >> talking about what the department did. they didn't indict him and there were no charges. you hearing this? full spokesman mote. i'm sorry i asked. >> on the 2010 case just about publishing a leak from someone who claimed to be a whistle blower, they could make a charge against him. >> it being looks a lot more like espionage. >> we will have to see how this goes and why a lot of prosecutors and attorneys didn't think there was that case we have to see because of recent events. unless the facts change.
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stay with me. i want to bring in congressman joaquin castro and i appreciate you making time with me on a busy mueller friday eve. >> i think tomorrow will be very important. i feel like we will have more leads and a better understanding. on collusion and obstruction of justice and money laundering as it relates to trump and the people of his orbit. >> none of us know how much will be redacted. probably a good bit. it will come out of tomorrow with a better sense of who will be going. who will be in jeopardy of prosecution and which strains, which of the three buckets present the most danger for the president and his team. >> in the technical area of interbranch investigations which a lot of people don't think
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about, and there is a sort ever quiet or careful bruinication between his russia probe and the congressional ones. they used lies as a matter to prosecute. >> i think the michael cohen situation online to congress was the hip of the iceberg. they almost certainly will be prosecuted for lying. he first said to adam schiff and eric swalwell he had no advanced knowledge and he admitted he did. he basically gave us both sides while we were in the committee room. >> i haven't heard you go that far. you think authorities written record evidence that roger stone
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perjured himself? >> absolutely. >> do you have knowledge of how the mueller probe would deal with that? >> i assume at some point they would bring forward the charge and whoever else. if there is nothing else to charge him with, he lied to our committee. >> what are do you think about that? >> it's interesting when you compare transcripts and they are hesitant to charge someone who clarifies their testimony in the same sitting where they say something is false. if he is clarifying the earlier comments, he may get away with it and if he is told different stories, i would defer to the congressman who heard him do it. final word? >> in january they will have a
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chance to read the transcript and when you compare the two answers for me in that room. this gentleman perjured himself that day. >> fascinating and at least i heard joyce vance. thanks for your analysis tonight. >> coming up from the moscow project to the trump tower meeting, we will break down what it does for one person in particular. this is pretty big. trump's housekeeper speaking out on behalf of all the undocumented and taking on his hypocrisy and risk. the art of the deal and tony schwartz back on the deal. urging mueller witnesses to defy the fbi. what it means. you are watching ari mel burn on the beat.
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unstopand it's strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. court filings could dial up pressure on donald trump, jr. michael cohen was once close to the family and met with all of the trump family members and he has been talking to mueller. the meetings go back to august and even lied about the outreach about that famous trump tower idea. he also dished about briefing the family members of donald trump within the company.
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there are not too many people who fit on that list and a major player in the company and here is what donny deutsch explained to me. >> this is just the tip of the iceberg. the trump business empire is going to be picked apart for the next 20 years. that's built as a criminal enterprise. >> that's a man who knows what cohen knows. the meeting with russians that trump jr. organized and paul manafort organized. we don't know what will be publicly released. we can see a lot of redactions. we know that mueller asked trump about the project that is a presidential level question and that was related to the meeting at trump tower. that is all out there.
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here is a former judge and his view on where this is all headed. >> do you think that any of trump's inner circles are going to get indicted? >> i don't know who, but donald junior told friends he expects to be indicted. >> do you expect he will be indicted? >> yes. >> wow. >> it's not surprising. you don't even have to wait for tomorrow. you know that michael cohen will be testifying about the russia matter and there will be no reason for muler to have him plead guilty to other changes relating to what was going on with trump moscow.
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they got cohen in the public stuff. they are saying it relates to another defendant. >> other defendants? >> as a prosecutor, they would want the witnesses plead guilty to what they will testify to. if you look at what he pled to with the russian trump tower, it goes right into the sweet spot of the trump tower meeting and everything relating to the stolen documents and e-mails from the democratic national committee. it starts in june 4th with don junior getting the call and the e-mail from ron gold stone saying he will get the dirt on hillary clinton and backing donald trump. we don't know exactly what happened between the june 4th and june 9th meeting. all we have are the e-mails. we don't know if the e-mails
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with gold stone said he goes to trump's secretary and we would bring him personally. we know that donald trump had a press conference. don junior was right next to him at the time and he said a press conference will explain all the bat things. >> it's possible that don, jr. has an over active imagination and is worried he will be indicted. don, jr. knows ther or thinks this because he has been warned that he is a target. >> i don't think he has to be warned. we know about the joint defense agreement going on and everybody is going to see mueller. what questions they are asking. they had a pipeline by virtue of
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m manafort into the trump legal people. they know the focus here. they know obviously what michael cohen can say. michael cohen to his lawyer said that donald trump knew about that meeting and they backed off on this. >> on both sides of that. >> they know that the mueller team came down like a ton of bricks. he was not spilling the beans on what his client would say. >> a matter of the details. thank you very much tonight. meanwhile, sean hannity has vees for those who are witnesses and defy the fbi. we will get into that in 30 seconds. ♪
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the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪ >> donald trump's adviser has a message for a new witness not to be a snitch. >> if you grew up to revere the fbi agent and some crime took place in the neighborhood and maybe a little bit of information, but you don't quite recall, but you are sure you do. the advice is don't talk to the fbi. >> wow. that's sean hannity giving out advice saying my advice, don't reveal what you know about
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potentially crimes that were committed. it is a remarkable turn around for sean hannity. he was a big public critic of a so-called stop snitching rhetoric and people were discouraging others from cooperating. >> it's called the stop snitching campaign and taking urban communities by storm. do not cooperate with police no matter how bat. the result is crimes are going unsolved. this is being marketed by corporations and fuelled by the rap music industry. >> she saying in his view not what he is doing now. he would be the leader of this movement if that's what you want to call it, but this is coming from urban communities.
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>> people are dying in the streets in our cities and people are witnessing these crimes and there is a concerted effort not to tell the police or cooperate with the police. that's a phenomenon we better pay attention to. >> hannity is telling people not to smich after the recent praise for saying he won't testify against trump. the toll ticks editor, jason, what do you make of this drastic public hypocritical obvious change of heart? >> it shows he doesn't know this history of hip top. >> he was talking about stop snitching and he said that steps from a legitimate distrust of the police and law enforcement. he has no reason to distrust the
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fbi. he is wrapped up in the same corrupt business that michael cohen and the president is involved in. he is going to snitch and doesn't want other people to come forward. >> it is remarkable and why do you think that sean hannity thinks he can get away with this. if he wants to encourage people not to cooperate with the feds, include his own former lawyer, michael cohen who had the weird role of being a hannity and trump lawyer, this is all public. don't you think hannity's own viewers and followers are going to find out about this? >> they will eventually. one of the many reasons he thinks he can do this is because he's a rich white guy. he sees that the government and members of this administration will protect him. i have to go back to this to begin with. he changed his mind and went on
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the air and said snitches get riches. at this point in time, there is a rule is in smiching on this presidency. shawn hannity can say don't snitch or work for the fbi, but it doesn't apply to papadopoulos and a lot of other people will go down. and how much they align, this is bigger than media i hhypocrisy i want to ask you if you think this is channelling donald trump's legal approach and say never talk to in spite of your love of law enforcement, don't talk to them ever. if you say thing long thing and they throw your blank in jail. i wonder about this civil libertarianism that we see from
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parts of the fox news supporting groups. and if you are not doing anything wrong, they show they don't believe in the rule of law. if donald trump had not done anything wrong, his son wouldn't be afraid. and if shawn hannity wasn't knee deep in the muck, he would keep his mouth shut. she is just as guilty as those he is trying to defend. >> that's why we wanted to put a spotlight on it. plenty of reporters and lawyers had those views. for it to be blatant the way he talked about urban communities
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and the way he tried to smich for that stop snitching effort and now doing this. it's out there for everyone to see. we always appreciate you coming by the beat. >> thanks, ari. >> up ahead, speaker ryan preparing to leave wng and what the fact shows. a housekeeper revealing insults and humiliation. tony schwartz knows a thing or two about how it works.
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>> per another important that a lot of americans are tracking is the roller coaster that the dow plunges almost 800 points and
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ends up down 79. they point to the erratic leadership and trade. he said that deal with china was close and he was a tariff man and threatened to bring the heamer down on china. i am about to speak with tony schwartz with the art of the deal and saying the trade conclusion was about his failure as a leader. he said he's not worried about the national debt because he would be out ofors before the bill comes due. they displayed a total lack of self awareness. and they said they spet it out and have to put up with the humiliations and on the day he said he would run for president were searing.
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>> when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they are not sending you. they are not sending you. they have sending people who have lots of problems. they are bringing drugs. they are bringing crime. they are rapists. >> ceo of the energy project and coauthor of the art of the deal and the way we work is not working. always good to have you here. this is perfect in the sense that this individual like you has worked with donald trump and comes to adjust her view of donald trump and she said this tonight. i want to be clear with this. at great personal ring to her deportation status. >> we are in a crisis of leadership which trump is leading. we need a form of leadership and a transformational leadership.
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what we have is the worst kind of leadership. we need leader who is have a perspective or a world view that is deeper and wider and longer term. instead what we have is a leader who is narrow and shallow and x expedient. the critical element for leaders is that they are grounded in core values and the values are what root them. what you see in a situation like this is that trump will talk about undocumented immigrants in a way that serves him well. at mar a lago. he will hire them because it works for him. that's the narrow part of his perspective f. it serves me, it's okay. and what he just said about china after the g-20, all the great things that we are going to happen 24 hours later, he
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realized oh, my god, maybe this is not going to happen and he went the other way. that is really addressing the longer term which is what is the impact when you say something like that and you are the president of the united states? to totally up end the markets. lying is a feature and the reason he didn't achieve much is that he didn't have a majority. i didn't have enough republicans in the house. >> sheer lying about what he had to explain a truth which is that they didn't get a lot done legislatively. i wonder how you do that with someone who obviously used lies to advance himself and the tares he is struggling with most is the swift accountability for
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lies. the law and the markets. >> if the people around you don't trust you, anything you say gets dismissed or diminished. look what happened to the people around him. they all left and they have either been kicked out because they don't see a path forward. they have just distorted because it's hard. >> when you look at this with the markets, is this something you see as a long time trump observer will impact him with those who follow other stuff. if the market goes down and we will see a tweet from trump how it's the fault of the democrats
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or the fake global warming. advocates or some other idea. doi see this would have an impact or a long-term impact? there is no question that what trump is doing is going to put him in a position where at some moment six or 12 months from now, even the economy is not going well. i am fascinated to see the greatest of all time. he is the goat of scapegoating. that's not the goat you want to be. >> that's his remix.
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always good to have you on the beat. we will fit in a break and my special report on paul ryan's tenure and speaker from i had pock rhyso deficits and why it marries tonight. that's next.
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paul ryan is now on a farewell tour as he retires from congress. capping a career that got him
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second in line to the presidency. tonight we bring you a special report on ryan. what do the facts show about his speakership and what can we all learn from what turns out to be a rather sat ark of paul ryan. what can we learn about today's politics? our special report deals in facts and members and the facts suggest a wider verdict on the republican party's modern approach to the budget to the deficits and the test of president trumpism. whatever ryan's reputation might be right now, let's remember for starters. top republicans used to herald ryan as a budget walk who would help fix america's debt. >> there has been a lot of talk about the numbers. >> hoary understands the fiscal challenge. >> he has bold ideas and he's very smart. >> here argued that he would be bold when dealing with the first
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big challenge. candidate trump. he held back for a moment and called trump out for text book examples of racism during the campaign. >> i'm not ready to do that at this point. i'm now. >> claiming a person can't do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. >> okay. but then how do you campaign for someone who does textbook racist things? in ryan's case, loudly. giving trump a full embrace with a prime time speech at the gop convention and in ryan's case cynically, because as speaker, ryan would habitually lie and claim he hadn't seen what trump said or did to avoid having to condemn it. that was an open secret that was so blatant it actually became paul ryan's own punch line at the comedic al smith dinner. this was during trump's first year in office. >> every morning i wake up in my
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office and i scroll twitter to see which tweets that i'll have to pretend that i did not see later on. >> very funny. i want to be clear, we're not applying a random standard on paul ryan here to confronting trump. we are applying the paul ryan standard. he said he'd stand up to trump. he proclaimed trump's comments were textbook racist and then even when he had the second most powerful post in washington after the presidency, as speaker paul ryan famously folded. now, what about ryan's other major stated passion, the hunger to balance the budget and cut the deficit, which animateed his early rise. he even co-authored a book republican young guns who take on the at that time and sold himself as a new school legislator, a guy as tough on deficits as he was in the gym. >> pull-ups, pushups, sit-ups,
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lots of cardio, karate, jump training, yoga. >> we think we ought to contain and control and cut spending. we think we ought to get our deficits down, not up. >> we believe that we owe the american people a responsible balanced budget. >> balanced budget. deficits down, not up. that was ryan's pitch. we all heard it. and then he got the gavel and he wielded it during two different presidencies. and, again, i'm just going to use the paul ryan standard, he failed. ryan became speaker in 2015 when there was a roughly $438 billion deficit he and oversaw the growth of that deficit to $793 billion. it's now on track to surpass $1 trillion. wow. so whether you think the deficit's, like, super important or not as important, let's be clear, as paul ryan prepares to leave his big job, he ran on cutting it. >> we think the wrong answer is
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to have a new gusher of spending, a new gusher of taxes and a new gusher of borrowing. >> a gusher of borrowing, which is what i just showed you he did. and that's not all. there are some ryan defenders who argue, well, part of that was compromising on policy in the obama era, and that's an argument but, again, let's just do the numbers. the clearest exposure of the ryan hypocrisy actually came just now in the last year because you had united republican government and ryan got one major bill passed into law in the trump era, this $1.5 trillion tax cut, which is growing the deficit. so look at this. when obama specifically left office in 2016, the deficit was around $538 billion. under paul ryan and donald trump, the deficit now grows to $782 billion. that is the change, that is the growth with your paul ryan republican speakership. now congressional budget budgeting can get complicated but this is simple, and i just
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want to put it down because we do the news here. first draft of history, some people say. here it is. paul ryan sold out his promise to cut the deficit. just like he sold out his promise to stand up to donald trump. he literally built an entire 20-year career around claims of fiscal discipline, rising to be his party's running mate and speaker, and when he got that power did the exact opposite of every single fiscal thing he claimed. so his claims to erase the deficit have been so exposed, so blatant, they too have become a punch line. >> our economic plan is simple, we are going to close loopholes, bring down tax rates and erase the deficit. >> could you please be more specific? >> no. >> paul ryan may be laughing, he may go on to a lucrative job, he may not care about selling out a career and a claimed philosophy. he was also -- before i go, i want to tell you this, far less productive than others who have
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had the speaker's gavel. whatever you think about their ideology, nutri and nancy pelosi got several major bills through their house when they were speaker on all kinds of issues. paul ryan basically jammed two major bill votes, only one of which became law, which is the one that grew the deficit. that's ryan's report card. the accountability may already be kicking in. many of ryan's co-workers just lost their jobs coming out of his tenure. democrats experience a massive blue wave, they've gained 40 seats in the house. that's adding a new seat tonight. the largest gain in decades. it is a shotty, hypocritical and, frankly, embarrassing record. i don't say that as an outside opinion, i'm judging paul ryan tonight through the facts and on the paul ryan standard. ♪ the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception.
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transcript will come out within a day. mueller's team filing their sentencing memo on michael cohen and filing their memo on paul manafort. we can learn a lot about his alleged lies and former trump campaign aid george papadopoulos, he'll get out of prison. we'll be covering all of it for you on a special edition of "the beat" tomorrow at 6:00. as for right now, it's "hardball" with chris matthews. no defense. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington with a special counsel's probe looming over his presidency, donald trump today resumed his attacks on the investigation. after a brief two-day hiatus. resorting to his usual talking points, trump made the unfounded claim on twitter that without the phony russia witch hunt, my approval rating would be at


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