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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 6, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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a day. mueller's team filing their sentencing memo on michael cohen and filing their memo on paul manafort. we can learn a lot about his alleged lies and former trump campaign aid george papadopoulos, he'll get out of prison. we'll be covering all of it for you on a special edition of "the beat" tomorrow at 6:00. as for right now, it's "hardball" with chris matthews. no defense. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington with a special counsel's probe looming over his presidency, donald trump today resumed his attacks on the investigation. after a brief two-day hiatus. resorting to his usual talking points, trump made the unfounded claim on twitter that without the phony russia witch hunt, my approval rating would be at 75%. it's call presidential
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harassment, he said. now we're learning that trump's impulse everyone twitter habit may be his own line of defense against the reckoning that may soon come. t "the atlantic" is reporting there is no plan to deal with the upcoming revelations from special counsel's office. quote, according to a half dozen current and former white house officials, the administration has no plans in place for responding to the special counsel's findings. say for expecting a twitter spree. remember giuliani's claim last ago he was drafting a counterreport to discredit the results of the investigation? giuliani now says he hasn't drafted anything. according to "the atlantic," giuliani said it's been difficult in the past few months to even consider drafting response plans or devote time to the counterreport. white house sources also say they recognize the, quote, if you tilt of drafting a strategy that trump will likely ignore anyway, closed quote.
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part of the problem according to one former trump official any attempt to plan ahead, quote, would mean you would have to have an honest conversation about what might be coming. well, some potential revolutions from mueller's office could come as early as tomorrow. that's because we're expecting sentencing memos to be file on the case of this is a big one, michael cohen actively cooperating with the special counsel and paul manafort who is has broken his plea agreement by lying to investigators. it means we could learn about the information each witness has given to or withheld from mueller's prosecutions. that's tomorrow. joining me right now is democracy congressman eric swalwell who sits on the house intelligence committee. heidi przybyla and chuck rosenburg, former u.s. attorney and former senior fbi official. thank you. i'll go to congressman swalwell about this now. what do you make of the trump team, according to reporting by "the atlantic," they don't have a defense. rudy giuliani was bsing when he said we're going to come out
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with a report to match mueller's report. now they're saying we don't have nothing. we're going to play shortstop on this and just see which way the ball hops. >> good evening, chris. how do you prepare somebody who is a stranger to the truth for what's about to come? of course there is no way to defend him. he will take his own course. he will continue to obstruct, tamper and try to influence the investigation. but here's where his staff should be prepared because the president calls it presidential harassment, by it's really just the end of the presidential immunity that he's enjoyed. so there are going to be subpoenas coming his way to the white house, to the trump organization. there is going to be a call for witnesses who came in and gave us a bunch of bs stories to actually be straight with us or be held in contempt of congress. there's going to be an effort to want to know if the white house is willing to finally come clean about what happened, so this isn't going away. they can't just wish this away. the american people gave us 40 new members of congress to put a balance of power on all of these abuses of power.
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>> what do you make -- just to make that point of your last one, give you a chance to make it. we've had mueller going at this guy for a long time now. i call him the iceberg because you don't know what he's got but he's going to hit hard when he hits and the "titanic" could well sink as it did in history. how does congress make this stronger assault on trump's definition of the truth or lack of dealing with the truth. why is congress jumping on here matter? help me. >> because we have a presidential election in 2020 and we were attacked in the last one. if we can't weather another attack like we had in 2016, a democracy can't survive. so if we're going to harden the ballot box and make sure the american people have the awareness they need, we have to know just who the president's team worked with in the past, how the russians pulled this off and put reforms in place so that it doesn't happen again. we are now much better able to do that, but that means taking an mri to everything the trump team did with the russians and perhaps also the saudis.
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it looks like they were open for business with anyone that wanted to help them. but it's our democracy that's at stake. this isn't about one person, it's about whether the rule of law and free and fair elections will still persist in our country. >> heidi, two related questions. does trump know what's coming from mueller? and secondly, has he prepared his team of lawyers to defend him? >> he may have some sense of it because according to that -- >> he knows with don. >> according to giuliani himself, it took three weeks for the president to answer a series of questions that should have taken two days. part of the problem that he's facing also is simply a staffing issue. first of all, his chief counsel on this has been held up by some kind of a security clearance problem after don mcgahn left. secondly, think about it from the staff's perspective, chris. either you are a staff member who yourself may have legal exposure or you're a staff member who doesn't want to have that legal exposure. so he's not -- he's surrounded by people who aren't talking straight to him as well and
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people that believe even if they do, he's not going to listen to them anyway. he's going to ignore them, do his own thing on twitter. >> as heidi mentioned, rudy giuliani also suggested the president had some difficulty answering those written questions posed by mueller's team. giuliani told "the atlantic," answering those questions was a nightmare. it took him about three weeks to do what normally would have taken two days. wow. this comes a month after the president made a point of saying he personally answered the questions very easily. let's listen. >> my lawyers aren't working on that, i'm work on that. i write the answers. my lawyers don't write answers, i write answers. i was asked a series of questions. i've answered them very easily. very easily. >> chuck, when does self-delusion hit the floor? >> well, fair question. you know, heidi made this point and congressman made this point, the president seems to have some trouble with the truth. what any good lawyer needs to be -- an effective good lawyer, complete unvarnished truth from
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their client. without that it's going to be very hard to push back on anything that prosecutors do or on any report that is written. >> what comes first, the chicken or the egg? somebody who is really guilty of a murder, for example, they don't run in and tell their lawyer, i did it. so i'm told. >> well -- >> so does trump -- he doesn't tell everybody i was working with the russians or i obstructed justice. he's not going to tell that to a lawyer, is he? is that illegal what i did? is he actually going to have that conversation? >> well, should he have that conversation? absolutely. will he, in my experience, chris, as a prosecutor, defense attorneys, very good defense attorneys often learn more about what their client did from me, the prosecutor, than their own client and that's unfortunate. >> yeah. >> no matter what it is you did, if you want someone to mitigate it for you, someone to make a bad situation as good as you possibly can, you have to tell them the truth. >> but the criminals tell the lawyers they did it? >> some do. most don't. >> anyway, "the atlantic" also
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reports according to congressional sources there's been little communication between the white house and the president's republican allies in congress. according to a senior republican aide, we haven't heard from the white house at all on this. you think there would be more of an effort to have a coordinated response. members want to help but can't if they're not getting information. congressman, i know you're on the other side of the aisle. do you get the sense that republicans are out there working hand in glove with the president? i ask that because 89% of republican voters are still with the president. >> i'm afraid to see what republican colleagues of mine would do if they did have a line of communication because what i see underground in the house intelligence committee and above ground in the house judiciary committee is an effort at almost every stop to protect the president. >> yeah. >> at many points it's actually obstructing. so i have a hard time believing that's true. we've had witnesses come in before the house intelligence committee who were feeding back -- their lawyers told us they
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were feeding back their questions to the white house. it seems like they're well-aligned. i don't necessarily buy that. >> so mr. nunes, the chairman of your committee, i'm told january 3rd it's typical. >> yes. he had a line of communication to the president before the campaign. we saw that it -- all throughout the investigation they sought to protect him. here's a classic example. i think the public should know this more. every single one of the interviews we did, dozens of people we interviewed with respect to russia, all of their transcripts are protected from going to mueller. we think there are a lot of lies that were told and devin nunes has tried to stop us every time. that i think is doing the president's bidding and protecting those people from criminal exposure. >> sentencing memos will be filed tomorrow, detailing the cooperation that michael cohen has provided to investigators as well paul manafort's crimes and lies that cost him his plea deal and probably his liberty.
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however, legal experts tell nbc news it's likely that both documents will contain sections that are blacked out, as was the case with the sentencing memo mueller filed tuesday in the case of michael flynn. chuck, tell me, a lot of us were depressed by a lot of that black covering up of a lot of this interesting stuff. but it looks like general flynn's going to get off. cohen, will he get a couple of years and manafort will get the rest of his life? what kind of a message do you think we're going to get tomorrow in the filing? >> manafort's going to be at the higher end of bad and cohen is going to be at the lower end of bad. there's no question. there is a really simple formulation for what you should expect tomorrow. if it's public, it's not going to be sensitive. if it's sensitive, it's not going to be public. people should not be surprised that prosecutors and agents keep out of the public record details about ongoing investigations. it's precisely what we saw with flynn. >> so if there are a lot of redactions, you think that's bad for the president. >> if there are a lot of redactions, it's bad for somebody, it might be the president, but it's absolutely
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bad for somebody. where the speculation comes in is trying to read redactions. >> looking at it as a nonlawyer, which i often like to remind everybody. i look at it common sense wise. you've got one guy, his lawyer fixer. every time he got in trouble with a woman or a scandal, he calls up michael cohen. he's the guy he calls in the middle of the night. then the general who is going to be head of national security for him. it seems to between the two of them, the guy the hotel and the miss america or miss universe, all that stuff and the other guy who handles the big picture, the macro stuff. you're going to find out if there was collusion because one of these two guys will know about it. that's going to be in these findings, i think, coming from cohen, who apparently is coming clean. >> not only collusion but whether mueller's investigation extends well beyond russia and collusion and into the tentacles of the trump organization because that was -- remember, when trump really started his freak out was when there was a raid of cohen's offices because that is the treasure trove in where all the secrets are for
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how the trump organization operates. as we're seeing, and the congressman mentioned earlier, you know, whether it's the saudis or the russians, there is a lot of interconnective tissue there when it comes to his financial dealings. michael cohen has the lock and key to a lot of that. >> let's talk about that with the congressman. congressman swalwell. go ahead. my big question is if you're sitting down with some sodium pen thol, truth serum and michael cohen trying to save his keister from prison. what would you go after? >> one, what was the president's knowledge of the trump tower deal that was being set up at the end of 2015 and now it looks like all the way to the middle of 2016, even after he was the nominee. two, did the president know about the trump tower meeting where the russians offered dirt on hillary clinton? three, did the president know about the wikileaks dumps that were coming? michael cohen, the reason he's so relevant, he's one of the only individuals who lived in all three of trump's worlds, his personal world, his private -- his personal and private world,
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his campaign world and his financial world at the trump organization. so i hope the american people get that moment as we saw in watergate where michael cohen sits down, raises his right hand and gives a full al cushion and com comes about what happened. >> well said. thank you so much, congressman eric swal -- coming up, the latest of the north carolina vote theft investigation. could a new election be called in that house race? that's a rarity but i don't see how they can say this was a fair one. plus, risky business. "the washington post" has reported a saudi-funded lobbyist paid for 500 rooms in trump's hotel after the 2016 election. that's a lot of rooms at 700 bucks a bite. and the "hardball" roundtable weighs in on trump's -- without the mueller probe his approval rating would be, well, 75%. trump reportedly said he's not worried about the skyrocketing debt because he thinks -- well, he thinks when that comes it will be trouble but he won't be around to shoulder the blame. isn't that what he says with climate change.
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simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. back to "hardball." on the night of november 6th this year, voters across the country send a resounding message of disapproval to the republicans. let's face it, according to nbc, the latest numbers have democrats gaining 40 seats in the house of representatives. 40. having suffered losses nationwide, some republicans, however, are out to subvert the message. watch them. republican legislatures in wisconsin and michigan in a move that seems to usurp the will of the voters are motiving ahead with legislation to knee cap incoming democrats elected to statewide offices like attorneys general and governors. this comes as new details of what looks like vote stealing continued to emerge down in south carolina. the state's board of elections has launched an investigation in the tar heel state into
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irregularities with absentee ballot in the ninth congressional district with a particular focus on robeson county. mcrae dallas to a seemingly larger effort to collect absentee ballots. he was hired as a contractor to work on absentee ballot outreach for republican congressman mark harris. earlier today we learned the democratic challenger there dan mccready has rescinded his concession speech. documents posted on the election board site show that he turned in nearly 600 applications for absentee ballots. you're only supposed to ally for your own. subpoenas issued for harris' campaign, the firm that haired dallas as well as a candidate for sheriff in the same election who also hired dallas. if the board determines that it has found evidence of irregularities that may have tainted the results, they can call a new election down there. didn't know you can do that. for more on that, i'm joined by leigh ann caldwell, nbc news political reporter down there in north carolina.
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zbur lena maxwell and republican strategist. leeann, tell us about how it looks down there overall for this vote stealing thing. >> yeah. sure, chris. so i'm in robeson county, and robeson and the county adjacent, really ground zero for this alleged voter fraud or election fraud that's been taking place. it has to do with absentee ballots. we have spoken with voters who said that random unknown people came to their doors and said that they would collect their absentee ballots and then mail them in for them, even saying you don't have to fill it out, i'll fill it out for you or, here, i have some stamps, i'll mail your ballot for you. and so what the state election board is looking into is how rampant and how widespread this is. they have held two closed-door hearings that tell them that there is enough there that they are not going to certify this
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race. they must hold an evidentiary hearing with all the evidence that they found in their investigation by december 21st. they have a couple of options there. they can certify the race, they can hold a new election or they can continue to investigate. we're going to have to wait for them to make that decision until that hearing, chris. >> john and stacey, two questions here, elections and criminality. you can say that the guy, harris, won by enough votes, they're going to let it go. they can have evidence of cheating. you also have to put away the person who did it, i think. somebody's out there getting people, unsuspecting people, older age people mailing them absentee bottoms they never asked for and showing up when they know they're going arrive and say can i have your absentee ballot which i know you've got. i'm going to fill it out. >> that's fair. let's not forget, too, the republican in the primary also had concerns about irregularities. >> about this kind of stuff. >> look, we mentioned michigan and wisconsin where republicans
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are gaming the system. this is potentially fraud. which all of us should agree is outrageous. >> i hate people that cheat. >> frankly, in this profession that i'm in, it's outrageous to me that you can play hard ball. that doesn't mean you cheat. >> i'm with you. >> if you cheat there should be consequences, both to the person who is responsible, and, frankly, if there is cheating that went on, they should redo the election. >> you're talking about people who are unsuspecting. not everybody knows all the rules. if somebody comes by and acts official. they seem like an important person. they have that manner about them. i'm here from the election bureau. i want to help you get your ballot in, which, by the way, you didn't know you were going to get until we mailed in for it. that's the scary part, completely taking the vote against the person. >> it's going completely against the will of the american people when you're not allowing them to fairly cast their ballots and to make their voices heard. so you're basically subverting democracy. the great irony is that reasons are the ones always talking
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about potential voter fraud. but when we actually have a case of real potential voter fraud, it's the republicans doing it -- >> okay. >> i agree with john -- >> zerlina, are you saying republicans are more likely to cheat in elections than democrats? you're smiling. >> no, what i'm saying is in this case, the republicans are talking about fraud but they're the ones actually doing it. >> i grew up in a big city, okay? i'm sorry, it's been done before on the other side, too. >> sure, of course, chris. i'm talking about in recent years. >> of course. fair enough. the executive director of the north carolina gop said he would support a new election only if fraudulent activity could be proven and shown to have change the outcome of the november election. let's listen to him. >> we need to have a public airing of the facts very soon by the board of elections. if they can determine that there was wrongdoing and that those people should be criminally prosecuted under state and federal law, which we fully
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support, but that -- but numerically it could not have changed the outcome of the race then mr. harris needs to be certified. >> earlier today "the washington post" reported that both his party, that's the republicans, and a regional political director for the national republican congressional committee were warned of voting irregularities in the county during the primaries. as john mentioned. the nrcc denies those reports. raised concerns about his re-election campaign two years ago. let me get back to leeann. it seems to me the question is, if there is taint here, if her was cheating, criminality, should the election count, even if the numbers don't add up to the difference between the winner and the loser in the first count? >> yeah, it's interesting what dallas woodhouse said. he said that he would support a new election if there is enough evidence that would change the outcome. all he's stating is the law. that's what north carolina law says and that's what the board
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of elections would have to do if it would change the outcome of the election. you know, i talked to him just before we went on air about that "washington post" story and how they're saying that pittenger, who is the republican who ran against harris in the primary, made these concerns to him and the party after the primary and said, look, there is something shady going on in bladen county and robeson county as well. and woodhouse said he didn't remember. he couldn't confirm or deny. it's not something he recalled but he said it's very likely that they did say something, it just didn't register at the time. and now they're trying to really distance themselves from it and say what -- say what's happening here is sickening and horrifying. but they're also protecting their candidate, mark harris. woodhouse told me as well that mark harris had nothing to do with this and he is an innocent victim. that's still a very open question, especially since a consulting firm that mark harris
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hired is the one that hired the ones running this absentee ballot operation, chris. >> is it your sense working in politics that a candidate wouldn't know that he had a real dangerous crook out there, somebody out there basically manipulating the numbers? >> absolutely that is possible. absolutely it's possible that the firm that hired them did not know this individual was going to do that. there's a lot of bad people. >> moral judgement -- are you still responsible for something done on your behalf with your money? >> it depends what you mean by responsible. you should scrutinize this. >> this guy was getting 40,000 to win absentee ballots. he was told to win. >> i understand that. there is a presumption in a campaign you are hiring professionals who are going to do this following the law. that is not impossible. in fairness, there are a lot of rogue consultants out there that think this is the right way to win a race. if the people hired them -- >> zerlina, here is your chance, do you think the republicans
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should join in the condemnation of what happened? >> certainly. absolutely. it potentially impacted the republican primary. republican voters have not been able to have their votes fairly cast and their voices heard, so i think this is an issue that goes to the heart of our democracy. it's not just about this one election but it's also about the voters having faith that their votes are going to be accurately counted by those election officials so we don't need this political gamesmanship. if we want to make access available to everyone, we should make voting easier, we should expand early voting and we should make voter registration as easy as possible so that more people can vote because, you know, it's really a competition of ideas, and if republicans were confident in those, they wouldn't be doing the cheating and the election rigging. >> i agree. you know, i do think that we have to not only make sure nobody cheats, we have to make sure nobody thinks people are cheating. we've got to get that out of our system. there shouldn't be nonsensical charges, you're right about that, zerlina. vote cheating, it's totally out
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of hand. it depresses people's confidence in the system. thank you leigh ann kald. up next, why was the saudi government paying big pucks to put up groups of u.s. veterans at trump's hotel right here in washington. you see a picture of it. were these vets being used to advance the interests of a foreign government, the saudi government or deliver business to trump? or both? what do you think? this is "hardball," where the action is. we opened our doors with 70-megawatts, 35 mules, and an ice plant. but we brought power to the people- redefining what that meant from one era to the next. over 90 years later we continue to build as one of the nation's largest investors in infrastructure. we don't just help power the american dream. we're part of it. this is our era. this is america's energy era. nextera energy
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i believe prince mohammad did know what was going on. somebody gave the order and either he gave it or watched it being given to gut mr. khashoggi like a fish. >> if you want to buy our weapons and integrate your economy into ours, there is a certain price to be paid. don't chop somebody up in a consulate. that's not too much to ask. >> wow. those are outspoken republicans. welcome back to "hardball." lindsey graham, both republicans making the case against saudi arabia in the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. graham is one of the co-authors of a bipartisan senate resolution introduced yesterday called saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman or mbs complicit. actually, that's being nice. i think he ordered it in khashoggi's murder. president trump has apparently dismissed charges of mbs' role in khashoggi's death, but a new
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report has once again raised questions about trump's vocal defense of the saudi government and his own financial entanglements with that regime. according to "the washington post," saudi-backed lobbyists paid for 500 rooms at the president's hotel here in washington just three months after the 2016 election. the report notes that lobbyists spent more than $270,000 to house six groups of visiting u.s. veterans at the trump hotel, which trump still owns. the lobbyists who ran the trip say they chose trump's hotel strictly because it offered a discount from that rate and had rooms available, not to curry favor with the president. i'm joined now by washington state democratic congressman denny heck, who sits on the house intelligence committee. what's the smell of this seem like to you? that's a lot of money. about $300,000. >> the smell of that is the kind half wants you to grab your nostrils by your thumb and index finger and squeeze tightly. look, this is potentially the violation of who knows how many
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conflict of interest statutes. it certainly raises the issue of the emoluments clause of the constitution. there are three mentions of emoluments clause in the contusion, one in article i, two in article ii, which require the president to report to congress, submit to canning any gift or receipt of gift from a govern government which he's absolutely refused to do. that's not surprise. he's the least transparent, the most opaque president in history. >> by the way, presidents, even when they get a gift, a horse or a pony or a vase or anything or a ring from a foreign government it. they have to look at it, appreciate it and then give it to the national archives. they can't take anything. >> let us remind viewers this is the no only in the constitution but what all modern presidents have done. president kennedy refused in part to accept honorary citizenship in his ancestral homeland in ireland because of this.
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president carter was actually required to sell his family peanut farm that had been in the family i don't know how many generations because of this. all other presidents respect this except this one. >> do you get a sense the saudis are buying our president? >> buying as in -- buying or bought? >> your tense is up to you. >> well, listen -- >> do you think they're -- they're putting -- buying hotels at his hotel to curry favor with our president? >> if they weren't, why isn't he revealing it? why isn't he submitting it to congress? why isn't he being more transparent? what has he got to hide. >> i'd like to know the whole thing about the guy. i can't figure out the president in this regard. originally i gave him the benefit of the doubt. i thought he was trying to develop some big deal withed the saudis that was going to be good for everybody and lately i get the feeling it's a lot more petty reason. >> it's long past time for us to re-evaluate our relationship with saudi arabia, that's for sure. listen, if they want to be a
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member of the community of civilized nations they have to begin acting like it and ordering the murder of a journalist certainly doesn't -- >> how sound is that -- you're on the committee. how sound is the cia case that mbs, the prince, ordered this killing? >> obviously, chris, i can't reveal what it is that we've been briefed on that is of a classified nature, but i sit here before you and i tell you i agree with senator corker who said if this was in front of a court of law, this guy would be convicted within 30 minutes. >> mike pompeo is backing up the president, why? >> who knows. >> mattis, the secretary of defense is backing -- they're all together on this. >> no, they're not. chris, they're not. why is it that our classified briefing for all members of the house next week includes secretary of state pompeo, secretary of defense jim mattis but not the director of the cia gina haspel? why is that? >> because she knows the truth. >> all right. there you go. >> thank you. congressman denny heck of washington state. up next, the passing of
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president george h.w. bush puts the current occupant of the white house in stark contrast, don't you think. as the former president was being laid to rest today, president trump was tweeting about his own popularity. how do we make sense of this massive shift in the makeup and the priorities of the republican party, don't you think? you're watching "hardball." rson that loves to tailgate? (click, beeps) ( ♪ ) how about a new tailgate? ring in the holidays with great deals across the buick lineup. use your avenir cash allowance to get over $6,200 below msrp on this 2019 enclave avenir.
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welcome back to "hardball." today, former president -- late president george h.w. bush was laid to rest in his presidential library down in texas alongside his wife barbara and daughter robin who died at i think age 3. the past six days have been filled with tributes to the life and character of the 41st president and longtime friend and bush's secretary of state james a. baker spoke at the service in houston today. >> he used to say that one of the things he liked best about me was that i would always tell him what i thought, even when i knew he didn't want to hear it.
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then we will have a spirited discussion about that issue. but he had a very effective way of letting me know when the discussion was over. [ laughter ] he would at me and say, baker, if you're so smart, why am i president and you're not? [ laughter ] >> well, as family and friends were gathered in texas for his service, the 45th president was busy tweeting here in washington about his approval rating and how it would be higher if not for the special counsel's investigation writing, "my approval rating would be at 75% rather than 50% just reported by rasmussen." well, to note, by the way, nbc news has concerns with rasmussen's polling technology. in the midterms, it showed republicans, just for keeping things honest, ahead in the generic congressional vote. they did not win in this election. let's bring in tonight's "hardball" roundtable.
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let me start with this. anita, this question of how could there be a party that looked up to george herbert walker bush and today looks up almost 90% to donald trump? same party? >> well, he's president of the united states. so where do we have to go? he's president. he's going to be running for re-election. he's what they have right now. and so i do think a lot of people support him as he goes around the country. you do see people support him. you do see people that don't like his personality, his tweeting, all that, but many of his policies are traditional republican policies. >> i was a republican and i could not bring myself to vote for him in 2016 because of what he says, how he acts -- >> who did you vote for? >> i ended up voting for paul ryan who has ended up being a complete letdown as well. >> i agree on that one, too. >> i think the point is over the last few days we've seen george
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h.w. bush be eulogized. two words come to mind, selflessness and service. which do n i think what we now see is that there is a problem among leadership in the republican party that no longer exists and this is going to be a problem moving forward because there is enough young people like myself who do not believe in the future of the republican party anymore and are leaving. >> peter, you and i have been friends for a long time. there was a scene at the church yesterday, at the cathedral, which i'll never forget. you had to be two hours ahead for most people because of protocol and safety. in walks the president. he walks all the way up the aisle and takes off his overcoat like he's reggie van gleason or something and hands it to some attendant. something about the way he did it was so big shot. everyone else took their overcoats off when they were in the church. he had to do it in front of everybody and throw it to this attendant. >> what else could he do? he was entering a house that was
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totally opposed to him on every level, whether it be on character, whether it be on selfless service, whether it be on patriotism. this is a guy that had bone spurs that prevented him serving the country. i think the point ultimately is people don't have a place to go. democrats have not offered an alternative, number one. number two, if you talk to dairy farmers, pig farmers soybean farmers, they are being screwed by this president. >> aren't they still being secured by this president? >> right now they have nowhere else to do. we the democratic party have not given them an alternative. >> let's talk about presidential politics. i'm already thinking about 2020. i know you all are, too. cnbc's reporting that democratic congressman beto o'rourke of texas team has been fielding calls from senior operatives who worked on president barack obama's campaign in the pivotal states of iowa and new hampshire. as speculation continues about a potential presidential run by beto in 2020, one columnist at
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"et" "washington post" is already getting whether the democratic rising star, breaststroke, is far enough left. writes, we still have time to pick a politician with a bold, clear, distinctively progressive the literal translation of hope/change campaigning. beto is a lot like obama. true. maybe it's time for left-leaning democrats to realize that might not be a good thing. i'm amazed by this. people like him. he's got charisma like the president. and some on the left saying he's not left enough. explain that? >> there is an amazing wonderful blue collar philosopher who once said naivete in children is often charming, in adults, it's stupid. that's political stupidity. oil and gas, welfare reform, those are all major issues that we need a president to deal with, not to simply scorn them and discard them. second, i think beto's in an
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incredible position, not necessarily about the presidency, but he's captured energy. one of the failings of the obama campaign in '08 was after we one we never had a call to service, and i think beto and his team are figuring out where do you take all that great energy? >> get people in the act. let me go to ashley on this. it seems to me if the democratic party sets as a standard you must be bernie, otherwise an avowed socialist. i'm not knocking it. >> right. >> if that's the political goal line you're setting up, this person isn't for so-called medicare for everybody, free tuition payback, not for a big role for the government in the economy then there not democrats. if that's the standard, you're going to knock out a lot of candidates. >> let's look at this, though, the dnc itself was against bernie sanders and they set parameters to make sure he would not get enough support and not have the support he needed. let's go back to superdelegates and all that. do i do think the establishment in the democratic party will not allow someone too progressive to get back in.
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>> i don't know about that. what about the voters? >> here's the interesting piece -- >> talk about winning a game, can you beat trump? >> you've got to get to the suburban, blue collar middle class voters. they need to start thinking about that obama/trump flip that happened in 2016 that again happened in 2018. if you don't focus on that, moderate swing voters. i am not going to vote for a progressive. i would vote for a joe biden, not a beto o'rourke. >> how do you get people in the industrial states who flipped for trump to senator and governor in michigan, minnesota, pennsylvania, the whole? >> i totally agree. it's like he's only talking about the primary, which is one thing. let's move on to the general election. >> you know what they used to say back in the '60s, ndc. november doesn't count. the hard-left would say as long as we win the primaries, it doesn't matter, jonchgeorge mcg. that mentality is out there. that beto o'rourke is too much like obama. that's a problem? he won. >> it's a problem if you are
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opposed to energy, character, ethical and moral values. standing up and almost beating an incumbent senator who flipped, meaning took the worst of trump's insults -- >> yeah. >> and then embraced it and went to bed with it, so -- >> clearly a lot of people don't agree with her. >> our friend over there, somebody, marcus or fred hyatt over there said let's stir things up in the democratic party. finally, it's not just the volatility of the stock market that should have trump worried -- have him worried now, there is also the growing national debt. estimated the federal government could add nearly $1 trillion in new debt this year. that would be 146% jump from last year in the highest amount of debt issued since 2010. however, the president is reportedly not concerned about $121 trillion debt right now. according to "the daily beast," sources close to the president say he has repeatedly shrugged
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it off implying he doesn't have to worry about the money owed to america's creditors, currently $21 trillion, because he won't be around to pay for it. so what do you make of that? >> the best part about here is the hypocrisy and everything, but this takes the cake because i thought at least a genuine platform of the republican party was fiscal responsibility. >> yeah. >> paul ryan says today, well, that deficit, man, she's the one that got away. what? you had a chance to do something. >> reagan used to say i met all my promises but the deficit. >> you had a majority. >> cheney said deficits don't matter politically. he doesn't care about the future he's basically saying, the sun, the climate. >> this is a guy who racked up almost $1 billion in debt and got to forgiven through manipulation and deceitful actions. so consequently i've been on the hill talking to congress people and senators. the one issue that could be bipartisan and really help america is infrastructure but they can't pay for it. nobody's going to agree to more taxes on gas or user fees and it
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would take it over the $1 trillion debt. >> let's have a capital budget. we can do it. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next these three will tell me something i don't know. we got to rebuild this country. you're watching "hardball." ♪ the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment. now when you go out, you cash in. what's in your wallet? now when you go out, you cash in. for each job exxonmobil creates, many more are created in the community. because energy touches so many industries, it supports 10 million u.s. jobs.
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soup or side you purchase we'll donate a meal to feeding america®. because o, that's good!™ . we're back with the "hardball" round table. >> my colleagues are reporting there is a bipartisan group of lawmakers that want the department of justice inspector
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general to look into alexander acosta. if you'll recall, he was federal prosecutor in miami when he made this deal to let this multimillionaire basically off the hook, almost. >> epstein. >> yeah, jeffrey epstein. >> that story keeps coming back. yesterday, big news coming out of my home state of new hampshire, secretary of state, bill gardener, the longest serving secretary of state in the entire country, now in his 22nd term, he just got reelected yesterday by the lawmakers there in a 209 to 205 vote. very close. but he has been setting, as the secretary of state, and has the authority for the new hampshire primary and has made sure it's remained first in the nation. so go, new hampshire. >> dershowitz is involved in that case. >> a revolt against senator chuck schumer, the minority leader in the senate is looming because he's going to allow manchin, mr. dirty coal, to take
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the ranking democratic member chair on the energy and natural resources committee. >> is that number two? >> that's the number two. with a climate assessment report and millions of people demanding that congress do something that is getting several senators to reconsider their support of schumer, particularly with the 2020 elections and young people demanding that climate adaptation is the bigger issue. >> do you think that schumer agreed to back manchin on this? >> he's the only one who could change it. >> schumer's got a lot of people to keep happy. thank you, peter. inside stuff here tonight. thank you to my panel. when we return, let me finish tonight with pictures of a country capable not just of civility but of through nobility. you're watching "hardball." over 100 years ago,
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we were talking about the model t. now here we are talking about winning the most jd power iqs and appeal awards. talking about driver-assist technology talking about cars that talk and listen. talking about the highest customer loyalty in the country. but that's enough talking. seriously. that was a lot of talking. back to building that was a lot of talking. ...and i found out that i'ma from the big toe lian.
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let me finish tonight with this week's fine pictures of a country capable not just of civility, but of true nobility that train rolling from houston
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to college station today gave some texans the chance to pay their tributes to the first president bush in a fine american way. by showing up they were able to create a portrait of affection and admiration for the ages. the recent presidents and their spouses shared the front pew in the national cathedral. it included genuinely affable moment between secretary hillary clinton and my former boss jerry carter. he was totally enjoying his company. fear to lose elections for the most basic reason that their successor will throw them in jail. it's one reason so few of them accept the results of an election, why they cheat in elections. this is where america's difference. for example, one of the u.s. presidents in that front pew was turned out of office after a single white house term and didn't look the worse for it. the other, up closer to the
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alter, led a light that showed defeat at the polls can do nothing to diminish honor. by the man who defeated him. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> i'm going to washington to be your voice in the ninth congressional district. >> not so fast. renewed calls for a do over in north carolina. >> a new election is not only appropriate, it is necessary. >> amid mounting evidence of egregious electoral fraud on behalf of the republican candidate. i'll ask the head of the state gop to explain. >> good republican act vis don't engage in this behavior. >> it's not just north carolina. >> this is bigger than that one seat. >> what the the republican power grab in wisconsin and michigan means for democracy in america. then -- >> what's come out of