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tv   MSNBC Live With Ayman Mohyeldin  MSNBC  December 16, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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that does it for us. the news continues right now. >> those are some powerful images and pofwerful words. thank you very much. a lot to break down this hour. under the microscope, almost every aspect of president trump's life now involved in either an investigation or a lawsuit of sorts. it goes far beyond the mueller probe. a federal court judge strikes down obamacare. president trump is promising great health care to replace it, but millions of americans are facing the prospect of no health coverage at all. turkey's foreign minister claims that president trump is getting ready to extradite and exile a cleric, something trump said he would not do. it is designed to ease pressure on saudi arabia after the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. let's begin with individual woes and legal woes. nearly all of the president's organizations are now under
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scrutiny of sorts. this comes as michael flynn is about to become the first member of the trump administration to be sentenced in the russia investigation. the front controversy on this front and center on talk shows as you imagine this morning. >> the responsibility of congress is very clear. park yourselves on the sideline and let mueller complete this investigation. >> i'm hoping mr. cohen will come before congress where he can tell the american public exactly what he has been to saying to mueller without interfering with the mueller investigation. >> the president is telling the truth, yes. this man is lying. is that a big surprise to you, that michael cohen is lying? >> why should we believe you now? >> because the special counsel stated emphatically that the information i gave to them was credible and helpful. there's a substantial amount of information that they pose that
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corroborates the fact that i am telling the truth. >> good luck. after what they did to flynn, the way they trapped him into perjury. >> you're saying good luck. no way, no interview? >> they're a joke. over my dead boyd. >> the special counsel did say you were doing your best to tell the truth about everything related to their investigation, everything related to russia. do you think president trump is telling the truth about that? >> no. >> what ought to concern us the most from an oversight point of view is, is there any entanglement with a foreign power. >> we want to take a closer look on how these taheadlines are impacting the trump's white house. the president's legal team still don't know what flynn told special counsel and the visitors. could we get more information on what flynn told mueller before his sentencing? the russia probe is negatively
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impacting how americans view the president. a brand new nbc "wall street journal" poll shows that a majority of registered voters believe trump has not been honest about the russia probe and a source tells nbc news that trump was in the room with his then lawyer and now former fixer michael cohen and tabloid pub e -- publisher david pecker. it all comes as his inaugural committee is facing scrutiny for how it raised and spent its money. joining me to break all of this down, david corn, glen kersher in, and eleanor cliff. let me begin with you. we want to go over the new nbc "wall street journal" poll and some of the numbers. startling figures. 62% think trump is not telling the truth about the russia investigation. half of registered voters now say that the probe has given
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them doubts about trump's presidency. help us understand, what is going on in the trump white house right now when they look at this growing distrust among the public with how this president and these investigations are playing out? >> i think they're looking at a potential impeachment train coming faster at them than they expected. i don't think that's the real problem facing this president. the democrats are reluctant to pull the impeachment trigger as long as republicans in the senate are still backing this president. as you know, it would take 67 votes in the senate to convict him. right now republicans are still supporting this president. in fact, self-decliared republicans support him by 85%. it's a smaller group than it was, but the president has considerable support. he is looking around and he's worrying about that support cracking, but the legal
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challenges coming at him, i think we are entering into sort of the realm this this president might have to make some sort of a plea deal. the name that comes to mind for me is former vice president spiro agnew who cut a deal to resign and pay a hefty fine so he wouldn't have to go to jail and resigned as vice president during the nixon administration. he was receiving bags of money in the old executive office. the criminality that this president is being accused of is multiple. his family is entwineed as well. i think the president must be feeling really squeezed and we're seeing that reflected in the number of tweets that he is issuing, some of which don't really make sense. >> it's funny brought up the tweets because i'm going to david about this. i'm asking you to make sense of these tweets for us.
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i know, it's a tall order. let me put this one up. he obviously talks a little about michael flynn but i'll read you the last tweet within a few minutes of us starting. the russian witch hunt hoax started as at insurance policy lock before i even got elected. it's very bad for our country. they are entrapping people for misstatements. lies or unrelated things that took place many years ago. nothing to do with collusion. a democrat scam. one of the earlier tweets about 30 minutes or so ago, he makes reference to general flynn saying it looks as if general flynn's defenses are incidental to something larger which is for the prosecution to figure out if it can find a path to donald trump without quite knowing what that crime might be. it stops looking like prosecution and more looking like a persecution of the president. he's citing this according to "the wall street journal." thank you, he says. people are starting to see and understand what this witch hunt is all about. here's the interesting thing, david.
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jeff sessions should be ashamed of himself for allowing this total hoax to get started in the first place. jeff sessions who still, even though he left or got fired from the position of attorney general, expressed loyalty to the president in very comments he's made publicly, but let's talk a little about general flynn for a moment and now that we have these new tweets from the president. are you expecting general flynn to give the special counsel team more information between now and his sentencing comes tuesday? >> well, i'm not sure he's going to be giving anything much in the next 48 hours, but according to filings that mueller has already submitted, he's been highly cooperative on a number of issues, some that were redacted, that were blacked out, so we don't quite know what they were. one of the things he was cited for cooperation on was investigating the trump/russia campaign connections if there are any and what's there. when trump is out tlrhere, thes tweets you just showed me, it sounds like someone who doesn't have full command of his
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faculties. when he says these are for unrelated lies, michael cohen admitted to lying to congress about a deal that trump had with russia during the campaign that he didn't tell the american public about that involved cohen being in touch with putin a own office. i mean, that was a form of collusion. not what we talked about beforehand. that was a form of collusion highly relevant to this investigation and shows that trump was betraying the american voter by not revealing that while he was out there campaigning. so for him to say these lies have nothing to do with him? he either doesn't understand reality or he's just willing to say anything about anything which is why those numbers that you showed from the nbc "wall street journal" poll are going so much against him. >> let me, glen, read you, again, this is from the tweet just a few minutes ago saying they're entrapping people for misstatements, lies, or unrelated things that took place many years ago, nothing to do with collusion.
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do you see it the same way? do you see all of these cases that the special prosecutor robert mueller that he's been building up, whether it be with general flynn, michael cohen, whether it be the russians that have been indicted? george papadopoulos? do you see that they're simply entrapment and have nothing to do with the collusion case? >> no. this entrapment claim is a diversion by giuliani and company. here's the thing. general flynn had a really strong adept criminal defense team working for him. if there was an entrapment defense under the law, i can assure you it would have been asert asserted by flynn's defense team. because they knew there was no entrapment, because flynn lied willingly, readily, and repeatedly, the defense knew they had nowhere to go on the law. what did they do? they advised him to plead guilty.
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general flynn entered a knowing, intelligent, guilty plea why? not because he was entrapped but because he broke the law by lying to the fbi. the defense team when they wrote that memo, yes, they tried to minimize the nature of his lie. they tried to distinguish it from the circumstances under which papadopoulos lied and alex vand vander swan lied. they did that because they themselves? jail and they were trying to show the judge that maybe general flynn's lie wasn't quite so bad. i would argue just the contrary. it was more significant because he was the national security adviser talking dirty on the phone to the russians. >> i asked you guys about the
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illegal hush money payments which the president has said was not a violation of campaign finance laws. even trump's lawyer rudy giuliani trying to explain why those payments to both stormy daniels, i did not violate campaign finance laws. watch this. >> think about this. suppose he tried to use his campaign funds to pay off stormy daniels. it wouldn't be totally illegal. if it's not a campaign expense, it can't be a campaign contribution. >> but the corporate contribution would be clearly illegal. >> no, it would not be. it's not a contribution. you do not pursue a president of the united states for questionable interpretation of the statute. that is completely wrong. it's harassment. this special prosecutor was there for collusion. then he went to obstruction, campaign finance. >> glen, what do you make of trump's legal defense in that argument that giuliani was just making? >> so this is giuliani just sort
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of disassembling and deflecting. michael cohen walked into court and laid out a factual basis of his conduct and trump's conduct, offer today to the court. the court said yes, i find that that conduct constitutes the crime of illegal campaign finance crimes. so the judge concluded this very conduct was a crime. the prosecutors in the southern district of new york concluded this very conduct was a crime. michael cohen pled guilty to the crime and he pled guilty to doing it with donald trump. donald trump committed the crime. this is giuliani just attempting to divert attention. when giuliani says first they tried collusion, then they tried obstruction and all they're left with is campaign fraud, the fact is i suspect mueller will find collusion and conspiracy. it sure seems based on the public reports they have also found obstruction. and this crime is just icing on the cake. this is not them sort of
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scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for a crime. this is one of the many crimes i believe the evidence supports. >> so here's an interesting thing. that trump himself in his own words undercut the defense that he's been trying to make now. because his team has obviously been trying to compare their position with the case and the investigation against john edwards. when the president weighed in on the edwards case, this is what he had to say. >> i always thought he was a sleaze bag, frankly. this is a very, very tough trial to start off with. a lot of people are saying it's not a trial that the government is going to win. i think despite what the lawyers are all saying that it's not a good case from the government. >> those are his words on john edwards he's now using to say in his own defense. what do you make of trump's comments and how do these two cases compare? >> catching trump in a hypocritical statement is so routine that it hardly bears remarking upon. but if the president's defense
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is correct as a purely private matter, then why don't they show did he make other payments in noncampaign years to other women, to other fepeople to protect his wife and son? that might clear him. the notion of paying off porn stars to his supporters still seems like the media and the democrats and robert mueller are scratching the bottom of the barrel. and so the president's argument i think plays with people and i think in order to trigger impeachment, which is treason and high crimes, high crimes and misdemeanors, this is like, you know, low crimes and felonies. and so i'm assuming that mr. mueller has a lot more and we're going to see a lot more about sort of a criminal entintermingg about the president's empire and
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his political aspirations. i think that will be as dangerous for him as sort of the broader picture of the collusion, the financial collusion. >> let me pick up on that point for you, david. now that david pecker is cooperating with the special counsel, what should president trump be worried about? >> everything. i mean, literally everything. has eleanor just hinted at, you showed that chart at the beginning of the show. there is not a single part of his life now that is not under some scrutiny, whether it's foundation, trump organization who is involved with ami in the payoff, whether it's trings r thin -- things with the administration and his family. we've had democrats say they believe don junior lied before that. we've seen robert mueller with the michael cohen case start prosecuting lying to congress. there may be trump family members in line. there are a lot of hammers hanging up there. we're going to wait to see which
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ones drop. that's without any more house democratic investigations which will be beginning in january. it's going to be a long year for trump. >> we're certainly seeing a few different investigations on whether federal level or state level. that is a suggestion that at least to some legal experts they're trying to create a sense of redun ddancy. thank you all very much for your time. coming up, months after many republicans promised to protect an important part of obamacare, a judge declares it to be unconstitutional. what the ruling means for those who depend on it and why the president's plan to replace it may not be so simple. plus will the president shut down parts of the government just to prove a point about his border wall? ...thi s is my body of proof. [man 2] proof of less joint pain... [woman 3] ...and clearer skin. [man 3] proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... [woman 4] ...with humira. [woman 5] humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation
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it's an awful, awful ruling. we're going to fight this tooth and nail. the first thing we're going to do when we get back there in the senate is urge, put a vote on the floor urging an intervention in the case. >> so that was senator chuck schumer reacting this morning to the decision by a federal judge on friday to strike down the affordable care act. in a ruling the day before the deadline, a judge declared obamacare unconstitutional. while the health care law remains in place for the moment, the move sets up a legal showdown that could come to a head around the 2020 election.
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joining us now, eliza collins, emily tish and former spokesman for michael steel. let me get your reaction to the decision. a "wall street journal" poll found that health care is at the top of the list when it comes to what voters want in terms of policy changes. how will friday's decision play out in all of this? >> i think politically it should definitely be putting republicans on edge certainly. it was a very prominent issue in 2018. it drove a lot of voters decision. a lot of independent voters decisions to ultimately come out and vote for democrats. when no matter how you fflt abo -- felt about the law, it is the law. it is part of our health care system. if it is struck down, it would mean 130 million with pre-existing conditions may be turned down to health care. it would mean cuts to tax
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credits for nine million people who are getting credits to the marketplace. it would be actually really devastating for a lot of americans in their health care and the fact that republicans are still standing up and saying this is a great idea, let's keep going, what a political winner for us would be a huge mistake on their part. i have to think they're not happy the case is moving forward so they should show they're not and they should stand with democrats and intervene in the case and not repeal forward. >> what is the end of the road for this for republicans if it is, in fact, overturn sed? what else do they have in opportunities to try and overturn obamacare as we heard obamacare responding to the ruling say thatting republicans will never stop trying to overturn it? >> well, it depends how far republicans want to go with this. it's assumed that this ruling will be appealed and it will keep moving up through the court system, but in the meantime, the law is in place. republicans in congress have some real decisions to make. do they want to team up with democrats to shore up the health care law, or do they want to
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double down and sort of side with the republicans that pushed forward with this ruling? republicans saw this was a potent issue and it did go in favor of democrats on the campaign trail, especially pre-existing conditions. this ruling is saying that all of it is unconstitutional needs to be struck down. it should make republicans uncomfortable, buzz thecause tht saw what happened in the campaign. there's a chance for bipartisanship moving forward. i'm just not sure if both sides will be able to come to the table. >> around the midterms i'm sure you saw as we all did the sound bites of many republican candidates to some extent saying they want to preserve pre-existing conditions and some would sound like they are very much in tune with protecting some aspects of obamacare. you had susan collins who believes today the ruling will be overturned. you had steven miller from the white house saying the ruling would be upheld. i'm curious to get your
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thoughts. which gop is likely to be correct on this one? >> it will keep working through the courts. there's a reason every serious effort to repeal and replace obamacare has included protections for people with pre-existing conditions. that's long been a priority. i think after a decade of trench warfare on the affordable care act it's time for both parties to kind of move past that debate. i want democrats to recognize that the desire for change in our health policy is in part because of the defishsciencies obamacare. i want republicans to realize we will never get that great moment of president obama signing the repeal of obamacare in part because he's no longer president. both parties need to find a way to address the health care challenges of today, not relitigating an issue we really concluded about ten years ago. >> in the past few days, republicans have been pressing the point that this ruling will not affect people's ability to get health care for 2019. are they already becoming aware of the potential political perils of this ruling? >> well, i think that we need to
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let the courts do their work. in this case it will continue working its way through the courts. what i hope is republicans and democrats in congress and the administration can find a way to come together to recognize that this is not 2008 anymore. in 2018 going into 2019, there are amazing things being done in our health care system through innovation, to lower costs and improve outcomes and we need to embrace and support those efforts. i think the affordable care act and these single minded fight to repeal it without a good replacement option have been impediments in that effort. >> let me ask you that same question about the midterms in 2018 as we saw many prominent republicans campaigning on the platform they would protect people with pre-existing conditions. how will they handle this? how will they square this round peg, so to speak? >> well, it's a lot easier to talk about something when it was a law, right? pre-existing conditions were there. the house and senate -- the
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senate failed to repeal obamacare. so it was still law. and so they can say of course i want to protect pre-existing conditions. this ruling puts it back squarlly squar squarely in front of them. there is a high chance that does end up getting overturned. republicans are in a tough spot. to michael point, they should come to the table in theory and democrats should come to the table and figure out how to actually move forward if both sides do think pre-existing conditions are so important. there's a real opportunity for bipartisanship. democrats took the house. republicans have the senate. they could really move forward. there are pieces of legislation, compromised legislation that has been floating around for the last couple of years, not been brought to the floor yet, but there are possibilities for people to come forward and do protections for pre-existing conditions. >> something tells me this is definitely not the end of the debate on obamacare. eliza, thank you. emily and michael, stay with us. is the white house planning
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to extradite a turkish cleric to help ease pressure on the saudi arabian government? we'll discuss that right after the break. our dad was in the hospital. because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. but then, we were like. what are we doing?
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welcome back, everyone.
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time now for we said, they said. focusing on controversies in the president's inner circle starting with michael cohen. heading to prison for three years. >> trump or his campaign under investigation, well, that's nothing new. robert mueller's team has been digging for the better part of two years, but the u.s. president is now under pressure like never before. >> his fixer has been fixed. lawyer, loyalist, and now a convicted man, michael cohen. >> does the punishment fit the crime? >> absolutely, it does. it sets a precedent. it also makes him the example unfortunately. >> michael cohen certainly went down swinging. this is going to make the white house nervous. >> so the uk's guardian asks the question who wants to be donald trump's lawyer saying among all the positions normally considered to be the worst jobs ever, solar engineer, decomposition cleaner, british prime minister. it truly ranks as less desirable
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than trump's chief of staff, a job literally nobody wants. th th >> that is really has been a lo goodbye. >> three chiefs of staff in less than three years of being president. part of the reason why barack obama can't manage to pass his agenda. >> of course, this makes three chiefs of staff for trump in two years. >> once again, we're playing who should fill the role? i think kanye is going to fill every role, but i guess maybe he's a little busy right now. >> who knows, maybe kanye. the irish times said the president is increasingly isolated. has just announced that they can customize your car insurance
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new developments in the case of murder order journalist jamal khashoggi. tour key's foreign minister says his country is? talks with president trump to extradite a long time foe of turkey's president erdogan. >> this guy and the others belong to this organization. 84 names that we have requested the united states to extradite. they shall be extradited to turkey. >> do you believe you're closer to having that happen? >> well, last time we met in
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buenos aires, president trump told erdogan they had been working on that. >> the foreign minister referring to president trumps meeting with president erdogan last month. there was a report white house was looking for ways to extradite -- that's according to two senior u.s. officials and two other people briefed on kwts. we' we'll be right back to talk more about this. stay with us. chevy also won a j.d. power dependability award for its light-duty truck the chevy silverado. oh, and since the chevy equinox and traverse also won chevy is the only brand to earn the j.d. power dependability award across cars, trucks and suvs-three years in a row. phew. third time's the charm... but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient
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welcome back, everyone. an objective and thorough investigation. that's what the family of a 7-year-old girl who died in u.s. customs and border patrol custody is calling for. the father of that child now disputing border patrol claims that his daughter lacked food and water for days. the father saying she was in good health when they were apprehended. a possibility one of his top advisers -- >> we are about five days from a government shutdown. republican leadership says there's no plan. what is the president's plan and will he shut it down to get this
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$5 billion in border wall funding? >> we're going to do whatever is necessary to bill the border wall, to stop this ongoing crisis of illegal immigration. this is a very -- if it comes to, absolutely. >> i want to bring in my panel and welcome to the conversation professor at university of texas victoria defrancesco. good to have all of you back with us. victoria, let me begin with you. this deadline is looming. the question now, is there any kind of compromise we could see in the next five days to avoid a government shutdown? >> so what we've been hearing is rumors that maybe the president is going to accept to kick the can down the road and deal with the border wall funding in january. my sense is that he sees that public opinion as a result of this girl's death is not where it would need to be for him to stake that claim and shut down the government because of the border and then put this in the larger context that even though we do have migrant care -- ca
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caravans coming, undocumented immigration is low. it's at one of the all-time lows compared to what we saw in the 1990s and the 2000s. the idea of a wall really isn't necessary in terms of quote/unquote fixing immigration. what's needed is to rethink our asylum policy, how we can make it more efficient, how we did get more judges down there to hear the asylum cases, but the border wall is a waste of money. trump knows it, but he also said he would do it. he's going to have to find a way to wiggle out of it. if i were a betting woman, i would think he'll kick it to january and keep kicking it down the road. >> you wouldn't know it from the hi hysteria that illegal immigration is down. here's the interesting thing. president trump this morning
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defending his border policies by tweeting against the democrats and president barack obama. in fact, here's what he wrote. the democrat as policy of child separation on the border during the obama administration was far worse than the way we handle it now. remember the 2014 picture of children in cages. the obama years. however, if you don't separate far more people, will come smugglers use the kids. giving you a chance to assess that claim. is that claim made by the president accurate? >> no. i feel like what we're seeing right now is when someone's thrashing right before they start going under. he's just thrashing anything he possibly can so that he can try to get some sort of win out of this. he knows he is in an un winnable political position. if he does kick the can down the road, he would have to face a house led by democrats, most likely by speaker nancy pelosi. part of the impact of having democrats coming in controlling one house of congress is there's no longer a blank check for
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whatever trump says, whatever the cost he says, whatever program he wants. there's now actual opportunity costs of these huge tickets. look, he couldn't get the border wall down when he controlled both houses and now he's going to say he wants $5 billion for something we don't need and is going to furlough hundreds of thousands of employees to get it done and those employees include i.c.e. agents, tsa traveling during the holidays, include border control, include his own secret service agents who will be protecting him at mar-a-lago if he goes down and takes a vacation during a shutdown. so the optics of that are terrible. he must be hearing that on the inside as well. >> so michael, the optics of it might be terrible, but the question then becomes is the trump administration willing and possibly capable of facing any backlash if it does come down to a shutdown? >> they're going to face a huge backlash if there's a shutdown. they had an opportunity last year to trade funding for the border wall for protection of the dreamers here in the united
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states. they didn't take that opportunity. they've run out the string to the point they are about to have a democratic majority in the house of representatives. they have very leverage to actually change this debate in the next five days. because the president has invited -- has invited responsibility for this shutdown, he will own it totally and completely. shutdowns are unpopular. a shutdown at christmas will be particularly unpopular. i don't think anyone thinks shutting down the tsa going into the holiday flying season is a brilliant idea. that's why you're seeing the president lash out like a cornered badger. he's angry and upset and he's largely out of options. >> one of the most heart breaking things has been watching the death of a 7-year-old girl being used politically. we heard a little of that from republicans who have been making the case and this white house in particular who have been making the case this is why we need the border wall to somehow discourage and dissuade these
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types of immigrants of risking the lives of their children from coming here. do you feel there's been some sort of victim blaming on these people by this white house? >> i do, and i also think that ha half of the story is being told because half of the story has to do with migrants coming over to seek asylum. over the last couple of months, the trump administration has been metering which means they post bus toms and border control agents and they turn away would-be migrants. they only let a handful in a day so these folks end up waiting. they can't get the applications for asylum they're legally entitled to. they're waiting months in mexico which is extremely dangerous. so they opt for crossing over illegally. and also let me note that even though they are crossing illegally, you can definitely ask for asylum if you are caught by border patrol. they are following the letter of
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the law. if congress wants to change our asylum law, they can do so, but as we stand now, these migrants are following the law and seeking asylum, but it's the trump administration that is bottlenecking our border and pushing them into these desperate and dangerous situations that ended up in the death of this 7-year-old girl. >> emily, how has it changed over the past couple of days now that we are hearing the father's side of this story? do we think the trump administration's policies bear some responsibility in this girl's death? >> absolutely. look, this is the second child that has died in the custody of this administration. they have to be talking seriously about that. the fact that they're trying to shift the bram lame to the fami who are crossing and not addressing the problems with the system, if they wanted actually address it and talk about people who are here today, they could be sending caseworkers down. they could actually be dealing with the system that we have in trying to help them make their
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claim, which is all legal. but instead, they're not even not doing that. they're only talking about the wall, which is ridiculous. so the fact that they are not trying to help people and actually trying to continue to blame them is making the situation much worse. >> michael, as the policy to mike asylum seekers wait in mexico made the border crisis actually worse? >> it certainly increased the danger of the situation we had at our southern border. i don't think there's any american that argues against effective border security, smart border policies, so that the united states is making decisions about who comes here legally in a safe fashion. i think that trying to improve enforcement without the mechanisms that are required to do that, without congressional action, and without some sort of a government to deal with those already here has created a much more dangerous situation at our southern bord zbl
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southern border. >> we're going to have to leave it at that. thank you all very much. still ahead, a possible extradition deal between the u.s. and turkey and what it has to do with saudi arabia. we're going to talk live to
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back to the story i brought you a few minutes ago about a possible deal between the u.s. and turkey regarding the extradition of a foe of
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president erdogan. the turkish prime minister spoke earlier today. steve, thank you for joining us. let's put this in context. walk us through the comments that the turkish minister made in terms of what the united states was considering with the compiled cleric the turkish government wants back. why do they want him back? >> well, as much as we know on this side, they identify gu line as the master mind behind a coup against erdogan a year ago ago and they've been trying to extract him from the united states. this is an issue that has come up with michael flynn, but at least in his comments he said thread reached a new understanding about the united
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states that took a lot of us by surprise. you probably know more details about it, but we heard about it on this side. >> what are some of the concerns that human rights organizations and others have about the united states possibly extra diagnostic him to turkey? >> i think the biggest one is the human rights concern that there's no evidence that anyone has seen or come up that gulen had any role whatsoever, even if people in turkey had been animated and acting as if there had been nothing like this. this appears to many like another transactional deal, that in order to get the turks to do something to back off on khashoggi or to pay a price to turkey, this is what they have done. and so they look at him as being used as a currency, as a token in this negotiation between the saudis, turkehe turks, and the
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united states. there's concern where the human rights of an individual are being disregarded because of big politics going on between these big countries. >> speaking of big politics, i know you're there in doha forum, a lot of people you're talking to, what are the geopolitics of what's happening right now between turkey, saudi arabia, and the united states? >> well, right now, i mean, even had iran to that. we had the iranian foreign minister speak here yesterday, and the turkish prime minister was here. so in that mix you have basically all embargo politics, and the view that saudi arabia has essentially engaged in an ongoing embargo that many find an act of war and certainly not constructive either to u.s. strategy or stability in the eject, lindsey graham's resolution to the senate
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resolution that designated mohammed bin salman as the master mind behind the khashoggi murder, it included a section about telling the saudis to end the embargo against qatar. so what we've seen with zarif of iran and the turks and others is essentially building common cause with qatar, if you will, in a way that to understand point the signal, appointed the finger on the saudi arabia as destabilizer of the region, not a stabilizer of the region. >> you brought up the iranian foreign minister. i want to play you the sound bite where he said the sanctions won't change polygoicies on ira >> over the past 40 years the united states have put so much pressure on iran that we can survive with the u.s. pressure. it was more difficult in the early stages. it is less difficult now. the united states can never make the claim that we will not be able to survive without the
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united states. >> on one hand you have many administration going full steam ahead with their iran sanctions, but we have europe in the mix and the iranians and europeans are trying to back door this in a way they can elevaalleviate t. is your perspective from what you've heard, is the u.s. losing or will they bring iran back to the negotiating table? >> it's hard to say. zarif also acknowledged the united states is a major economy, its sanctions do hurt and cause pain, but not enough to change iran's course. it's very clear that the europeans -- but when you get to the chinese, the russians, brazilians, indians, there are others who want to find ways to do business or to barter, if you will, with iran.
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i think in a little mix, the other thing interesting thing that he said was people like senator graham said that saudi arabia would fall in a matter of weeks if it were not for u.s. support, and that was the point where zarif was saying, look, we haven't had u.s. support, we've had u.s. animosity for 40 years and we've stood strong. so he was comparing the relative weight. it was an interesting comment. but i think that the europeans and others are trying to find a way to evade sanctions, and i think one of the big zingers that zarif side is is that he would be happy to trade lessons at a price to other countries on how to evade american sanctions. >> steve clemons, thank you. join me back here next sunday at 4:00 p.m. to break down the major stories of the week. you can, of course, reach out to me on social media at any time.
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i turn it over to my good friend, reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lede, another week of deadlines in and around the white house. the entire trump brand is under federal investigation. but trump loyalists continue to see what their boss wants them to, nothing at all. >> collusion is not a crime. it was over with by the time of the election. >> if it's not a campaign expense, it cannot be a contribution. >> the cooperate contribution would clearly be illegal. >> no, it would not be. >> this is what's so weird, the crime is conspiracy to hack. collusion is not a crime.


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