a very good day to you. i'm richard lui at nbc headquarters in new york city. there will be no solution to the partial government shut down it appears. a short time ago, majority leader mitch mcconnell adjourned the senate until thursday. however, he said he would call the senate back if a deal is struck. democratic leader, chuck schumer said the president should not expect any bill to pass that includes $5 billion for a wall. earlier president trump tweeted that he's in the white house working hard, negotiating with democrats but he convened a small group of only republican lawmakers to discuss border

security. about 800,000 government workers, though, are affected by this shut down as we hit hour 17. roughly 420,000 considered essential are working with no pay and another 380,000 are on unpaid leave. joining me now, "wall street journal" white house reporter vivian solama, political report for the "washington post," eugene scott and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. a lot of boxes and expertise. krist kristen welker in new york, what has happened since you and i spoke about an hour ago. >> it's striking that leader mcconnell has said this is not going to be resolved until thursday, after christmas. we were talking about the optics problem, the optics of having a government shut down over christmas. this could be potentially politically very difficult for president trump, for the republicans. i have been talking to sources

behind the scenes and they're very concerned about the impact on the republican party. of course, president trump in the oval office said that he would be proud to shut down the government over his border wall. the president wants $5 billion for the wall. democrats are saying we're not going to give you $5 billion. they are probably talking about some type of number in between. where do they end up. that's the question. let me read you one tweet, though, richard, the president tweeting a short time ago, the crisis of illegal activity at the southern border is real and will not stop until we build a great steel barrier or wall. that really stood out to me. he's talking about a steel barrier, not a wall. not the language he campaigned on, potentially a sign he is ready to compromise to some sten extent here. listen, this is a critical issue for the base. they're the ones turning up the heat. they're the ones saying shut down the government. this is not what they initially wanted. >> the word or.

mike mccarra we were reporting and discussing thursday, it's the 27th now, was that a surprise on the hill that the majority leader said okay, we're going home. we're going to go enjoy the holidays and if something happens we'll get back here. >> right. somewhat of a surprise, and you're right, there's the option that they could come back on the 24th and the 27th. both mitch mcconnell told us as he walked off the senate floor which is now closed tfor the ret of the day and all day sunday. they shut down the count down clock can keep on ticking at least until monday and the senate is going to be in what they call a pro forma session, they come in, bang the gavel rgs there's no -- gavel, there's no legislative business. they would have the option of a breakthrough. it does not look like that's going to happen right now. mike pence, mick mulvaney were in the capital meeting with

chuck schumer in his suite of offices, pence walking past reporters a clutch of reporters as he left the capital, says we're still talking, but that is some soft comfort to the 800,000 individuals who work for the federal government who are directly affected by this, not to mention a lot of federal contractors who are dependent on contracts with the federal government. and one other thing, kristen was talking about the optics here, here's a question for you, is the president going to go to mar-a-lago to spend christmas with his family if in fact this isn't resolved by the 27th at the earliest. you talk about optics, you talk about republicans feeling as though they're dealing a weak hand here, congressional republicans, what happens in those are the optics, so that's an open question as well, another pressure point, richard. >> eugene, under what deal might either of the houses say come on back, we're going to vote on something, what is that something that will bring them back? >> i would imagine that the president wants to see democrats entertain the possibility that

they will agree to some parts of the wall in a way that he would be able to communicate to his base that they are agreeing to something, some barerer, he just needs them to say we will entertain some of it, not perhaps the whole 5 billion. some of it. the democrats don't want to do that. their base, everybody is mindful of their base. they base doesn't want to see them con secede at all, especia since the prince hasn't been based on data. when he continues to say this is going to stop crime, he hasn't produced a report proving that it will do that. given that, democrats do not want to see their lawmakers concede because why would they at that point. >> we have to of course bring up the word here, jay newton small, kabuki theater as we look at what's happening potentially around us. the vice president had met with chuck schumer and they had a good conversation and the

conversations continue to move forward. is that relevant given we much watch the president, we must watch what he says and what he thinks really. >> there's two groups as mitch mcconnell said as he convened. there are two groups that are important, one is the president and the other is senate democrats because they have to agree to give over the vote in the senate to get something done and so it's these two groups that have to come to an agreement. i think senate republicans they're there, they're still, you know, obviously mitch mcconnell is the senate majority leader. he's still gaveling in the senate or gaveling out the senate. really the negotiations have to happen between the president and democrats and there doesn't seem to be a lot of budging on either side. there's in incentive for these guys to move because, again, they're appeasing their bases, their bases don't want to see them must have on the issue -- move on the issues and democrats have an upper hand because in two weeks, they will come in, take over the house. they will basically say we're not passing the bill that the house passed this week which is

the president's version of that bill, and then they really, you know, then there's the president's back to square one with no chamber of congress passing anything, and you start all over again, where are we going from here. to the degree that the shut down doesn't affect a lot of people. you're not going to see a huge disruption of tsa, acts at airports or mail with christmas coming, that kind of thing, i think that people aren't feeling the pain and there isn't going to be a huge amount of outrage to push them forward and it pleases their bases in the meantime. >> vivian, and oh, by the way, of course we're watching the count down clock. and a timer as we watch the actual seconds and minutes get bigger, but there's the count down clock of a new congress. did the president all of a sudden say, oh, boy, yeah, 12 more days. this is something i got to stand for now. >> it's certainly a symptom of his negotiating tactics where he likes to talk tough in these types of situation, and a lot of

this of course stemming from that very contentious oval office meeting that he had with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer ten days ago where they publicly argued about many issues and ultimately the president walked away from the meeting saying you know what, i'm going to take the mantle, i'm going to take responsibility for the shut down and that was sort of his earlier negotiating tactic. as the hours crept on yesterday and we got closer and closer to the actual shut down, he started tweeting in all caps at times that that is democratic shut down, and so he is obviously very frustrated with them, and he's feeling the heat as we get closer and closer to the house flipping and democrats taking over. he's really feeling that this is a sign of what could come for him. >> a person that's often sat during those briefings and asked the tough questions, kristen welker, there's also a very busy week in the russia investigation related to, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, you pick the headline, you have asked the

question is this a big part of why he's doing what he's done in the last 24, 48 hours? >> it could be. and i think that that's the way think about almost everything that the president does right now. it is consuming him. it's consuming his administration, richard, and as you point out, it is marching forward. look at all of the people from his inner circle who have pleaded guilty or been indicted or in some way been wrapped up in the russia investigation and the democrats are now going to have oversight. that was one of their big arguments for why they should be elected, and now that's going to be a reality. i have been talking to those who are close to the president and they say here's what's happening, the reality of a democratic house is sinking in ever more every day, and so that is kwhi you are seeing the -- why you are seeing the president somewhat backed in in this situation, did he not understand the politics, how much leverage he really had, because the reality is he doesn't have a whole lot of leverage because of the politics, because of the

fact that the democrats are about to have power. >> eugene? >> but that's a situation that the president himself has created, despite campaigning on being a great negotiator, he uses his rallies, twitter account and even press conferences to attack these people that he really needs to work with to actually make his agenda a reality. one thing that he also hasn't been really mindful of is the fact that his base is not as large as it was before the midterm election. he lost ground with white working class women, some with evangelicals, the reality is he has been playing to this group of americans who aren't sizable enough to help him do what he said he wants to do. >> jay newton small, if he is losing that ground at the moment, is his messaging in this particular shut down resonating differently than the other two in terms of duration, 69 hours, and this one is now in hour 17. >> certainly the president's rhetoric, i think, is right

where it always is in a sense of his tweets and his outrage and his all caps and things like that. i do think in washington there is this striking kind of apathy about this shut down. i mean, it's sort of the third time in two years, and people are shrugging. it's noticeable, i remember the first time i saw the government come to the precipice of a shut down, when the grand bargain was failing back in 2011, people were freaking out. people were up at 2:00 in the morning. strikeingly, last night, the capital, it was shut down and everyone was gone by 89 p.m. -- by 9:00 p.m. last night. there isn't the same sense of urgency, and if there is a sense of urgency, it's in donald trump's tweets. >> the hall monitor watching that very idea is mike, and you noted that earlier, and behind you it was completely empty. the difference this time around in terms of intensity, we are looking at a market, changes in

interest rates, dhanchanges tha normally say that's okay. now you're not going to have the backstop of a comfortable wallet. >> and going on what jay newton small was saying, in the past, all the federal workers that have been thrown out of work or furloughed get their measure back paid and the senate has passed that measure. even if this goes until january 3rd when nancy pelosi and democrats take over as rulers of the house, they can put something on the floor and pass it lick split. or to supply back pay to workers. the republicans are playing a weak hand here. there's no question about it. the senate already voted. there was already a deal in place until that meeting with speaker ryan, kevin mccarthy, and the conservative members, mark meadows and jim jordan in the oval office, in the west wing, when ryan said they're going to go back to square unone. a vote in the senate, five hours long, behind the scenes

negotiation, they kept the vote open. at the end of the vote, it was apparent that there were only 46 votes for the wall. that's obviously fewer than a simple majority of 50. it's far fewer than a super majority, a filibuster proof majority of 60. so both sides are dug in now. it's sort of, again, a dreary ritual here in washington. everybody wants to look like they're open to negotiation, the walking back and forth, the meetings in the capital, the photo ops, the departure shots and the lunch at the white house today. but really, each side is waiting for the other blink, and democrats feel very confident that the side that blinks is going to be the president. >> vivian salama, thank you very much. jay newton small, eugene scott. mike mccara, and kristen welker, thank you all. coming up, a second top national security official resigning in protest after jim mattis's stunning rebuke of president trump. g rebuke of president trump. (chime)

- [narrator] meet shark's newest robot vacuum. it powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. one dock, two sharks. the shark ion robot cleaning system.

not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. energy lives here.

the top u.s. diplomat leading the fight against isis is resigning in protest following the president's decision to withdraw u.s. troops from syria. we learned that in the last 24 hours. brett mcgurk told of his decision last night. mcgurk was set to leave his position early next year but will now depart at the end of this month after splitting with the president over syria just days after he defended the u.s.

mission there. >> it would be reckless if we were to say, anyone who has looked at a conflict like this would agree with that. >> mcgurk's departure follows that of secretary james mattis who handed in his resignation on thursday. that's a day of the president's syria announcement. that announcement was reportedly sparked by a phone conversation between the president and his turkish counter part, according to "the washington post." joining me now, crihristopher hill, and michael alan, former special assistant to george w. bush and staff director for the house intelligence committee. and vivian salama, during the rise and fall of isis. ambassador hill, let's start with you on this. who is brett mcgurk and what are we lose something. >> well, you're losing a lot there. he's quite a dedicated public servant. he worked for president bush. he stayed on through president obama and then he stayed on

through the current administration. he knows the players in the region, frankly, like no one else. he's -- no one else. he's courageous and he's imaginative. the whole idea of having this force in syria, force that didn't always take the front lines but rather were enablers, worked with other forces is part of brett's legacy to put together in huge coalition, and frankly, that's why it was so successful. when we look at the departure of general mattis, we have to understand there could well be a cascading effect. general mattis joining this administration was a signal to many others that it's okay. you can work for your country and still work for donald trump. and now that proposition is going to be sorely tested as we have seen in the last 24 hours. >> vivian, will we see a cascade? who might be next? >> you also know brett mcgurk because of your time in baghdad as bureau chief there. >> sure. it's entirely possible.

there's a lot of outrage in the government. when i first met brett and a lot of other of these officials, it was 2014 when the islamic state group had taken over a third of iraq and syria. nobody wanted to go back to war there. everybody had an aversion based on the 2003 u.s. led invasion of iraq during the bush administration that had gone so badly, no weapons of mass destruction were found. nobody wanted to go back, however, they believed, the united states felt at the end and brett mcgurk being the face of the discussions, we needed to be there for our allies in iraq and help them regain control of the country when everything had gone so poorly and their military had crumbled. it wasn't a case of we want to go and be, you know, participating in wars around the country, it was about containing this threat, and people like brett mcgurk, people like general mattis, they still believe that the u.s. being on the ground in these places is absolutely necessary. it's not about fighting wars over there. it's about preventing these wars

from somehow making it here in the united states. and that's why these gentlemen felt so strongly, the way that the president abruptly announced his withdrawal and basically dismissed the advice of his advisers, they felt they can no longer do this, and i'm sure others are feeling the same way. >> we're talking about two individuals, general mattis, as well as brett mcgurk here and when we think of the idea of institutional memory, these are certainly two individuals that are gargantuan in the respective spaces of that very idea. michael alan, as you look at the resignation, and vivian was moving to that of general mattis, just the shock waves that came across the institutions not only here in the united states, the beltway, but also internationally, how much does that worry you? >> it worries me a lot. i worry about some of the other generals or state department officials who have had to deal

with the kurds, our allies, our brothers in arms in northeast syria, those who have really bled more than anyone else to root out syria and to give the united states and its allies a more, you know, frankly a better position there geopolitically. i worry about those that have looked those individuals in the eyes, being unable to continue to serve, and you know, to try and defend the indefensible. i don't think it's going to happen, and i'm really worried about those knock on effects. >> kwhowho's the backstop, ambassador hill, who will fill in the two gaps of the two individuals we're at least talking about this hour? >> well, first of all, i agree with the comment about the kurds, i mean, it is hard to get people to work with you, to fight alongside with you when frankly they don't trust your staying power, and you know, there was a view in the past that somehow the u.s. didn't have the stomach for this sort of thing. that view is over. i mean, the u.s. has been

engaged in these things. we have bled. there's no question. and now i think there's a big question about whether we're committed here. so i think some other people are going to have to manage this through this time of turmoil that we have in washington. i think we'd need to be very honest with ourselves about this president. he does not listen to anyone. he reduces everything to a campaign promise that he intends to keep. he doesn't understand why we're out there. he doesn't understand the point that it is better to be there than to be fighting these things in the united states. so i think the first order of business is for some people around the president and including our elected senators and congressmen, to make clear to the president that this is unacceptable behavior. i think the president can be made to understand this, that he has to really step up as a commander in chief here. >> i want to read something from a russian columnist in the "new

york times," vladimir frolof who says quote, trump is god's gift that keeps on giving. trump implements russia negative agenda by default, undermine the u.s. led world order, u.s. alliances, u.s. credibility as a partner and an ally. vivian, who would have ever thought, and we do say this occasional, that we would be at this point? >> a number of people were worried. i want to remind that in 2016, a number of republican national security officials signed a letter saying that president trump was quote dangerous to the country and so there were these concerns going in that he did not have the discipline of a commander in chief in these particularly dangerous situations, but what's interesting is that he does have very qualified people around him in terms of people who know the region and who know the risks in the region. particularly john bolton, his national security adviser who's very hawkish on iran, and believes that iran's

destabilizing activities in the region are of grave concern to the united states, and yet he is standing by the president thus far this this decision to withdraw from syria where a lot of people believe that withdrawal will ultimately create a vacuum for companies like iran and russia to step in and fill that void. it is obviously a concern even for those who are standing by the president at this time. >> michael, very quickly here, i use the word world order in that quote, but should we put the letters dis in front of it now as we look what's happening in countries as i mentioned earlier, france and britain and nato as an alliance. we're seeing that idea of dis, disorder, coming into place potentially. >> yeah, i think certainly in europe and elsewhere, there is a lot out there. i'm worried about the knock on effects, frankly in afghanistan. i'm sure this undercuts efforts to broker a peace agreement so we might be able to pull further troops out of afghanistan. if we just announce another

precipitous hasty withdrawal, i think it undercuts the united states' interests and it undercuts the ability for us to get out in a sensible fashion. i have a lot of faith in secretary pompeo. i hope he can work with the president on this to sort of limit the damage. >> chris hill, michael alan, vivian salano a fascinating conversation with three very smart people. up next, a possible end date for robert mueller's far reaching russia probe after a wild week of legal elements in trump's orbit. week of legal eln trump's orbit. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. great news for anyone wh- uh uh - i'm the one who delivers the news around here. ♪

liberty mutual has just announced that they can customize your car insurance so that you only pay for what you need. this is phoebe buckley, on location. uh... thanks, phoebe. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

kayla: our dad was in the hospital. josh: because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. kayla: do you know how hard it is to smoke in a hospital?

by the time we could, we were like... what are we doing? kayla: it was time for nicodermcq. the nicodermcq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. and doubles your chances of quitting. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how.

this was a very busy week when it comes to robert mueller and his investigation. and it could soon be coming to a close we're hearing. nbc news reporting mueller is expected to submit his report to the attorney general as early as mid february. acting attorney general matt whitaker is also under fire for refusing to recuse himself from the russia investigation despite recommendations to the contrary by justice department ethics specialists. senator dianne feinstein is sfondi responding to a june memo criticizing the mueller probe. she calls it very troubling.

joining us now danny sovalas, and frank figliuzzi, and msnbc national security analyst. danny, because you're sitting here in studio, those are just some of the developments in this week. and if it wasn't shut down day, if it wasn't a shut down debate in the last couple of days, this would be full of opportunities here to discuss what happened this week. what stood out the most and again we didn't cover it all here. >> the punitive attorney general bar submitted a memorandum unsolicited essentially saying that the president cannot be investigated or prosecuted for obstruction of justice, that the interpretation of the obstruction statute is no good, and it doesn't hold legal water, which is astounding because nobody asked for it. >> yeah. >> and the other part of that is

was this an audition for the job of attorney general, a role that this, that barr had already held under a previous president, so initially, many of us thought, he's certainly qualified. >> was it a flag up the pole, hey look at me. >> you would think somebody who already had the position might be above that. at the same time, the fact that it's unsolicited and it takes an expansive view of executive power, to paraphrase nixon, when the president does it, it's not illegal. that's the gist of this memorandum, which, again, nobody asked for. >> how big a week was this, frank, and again for the viewers, monday flynn's sentencing delayed, tuesday, the trump foundation agrees to be dissolved as well, this amid the sdny lawsuit, right, which the president may have some concern about. wednesday, the attorney general nominee barr, what danny was bringing up, that memo that is critical of the mueller probe. thursday, mueller may issue his report in february.

how big of a week was this all said? >> it's a devastating week for the president and his team. let's add something more to that, richard, which is the revelation that the president has angrily lashed out at whittaker. we've just learned, he calls whittaker at least twice, angry with what he's seeing in the sdny filings. let's combine that with the nbc reporting that maybe mueller is going to wrap up as early as february: what does this mean? it means this is going to come right back to whitaker because william barr, as much as we talk about the mystery memo that we wrote, i agree with danny, this is extremely disturbing and out of the blue, it may not matter, though, because if mueller wraps up by february, the report goes to whitaker. he's being lashed out by the president, between a proverbial rock and hard place. if i'm mueller after this week of developments, here's what i

do, i'm going to stay on course of the strategy of making the report to whitaker secondary to telling the full story through speaking indictments. if we're talking about a february wrap up, the next shoes to fall, i predict will be roger stone and jerome corsi and look for those indictments to tell us a story that includes russian collusion. >> and would that be that nerve here, danny? >> frank is exactly right. there is a real possibility that we may never get to read the mueller report, at least in its full incarnation, complete expression. we may get a summary of that through another avenue. it may never see the light of day. mueller has been speaking to us the entire time, through his indictments filled with detail, the kind of detail that you don't normally see in an indictment, which can be a bare bones, bare minimum pleading designed just to get over the

threshold, so mueller's report we may never see but in a sense, we have all seen a lot of it already. >> frank, what's next then? >> well, i tell you what if i'm roger stone i'm spending the holidays with my family, i'm getting my affairs in order because i'm anticipating either cooperating fully or being indicted and everything he said so far indicates he is not going to cooperate, so i think that's next up. jerome corsi may presoocede tha we'll see, they may come together. don't forget, we have in the district of columbia, we have maria butina who's cooperating, we may see that in a mueller indictment or further developments with regard to how russia has completely penetrated campaign financing, perhaps through the nra, so lots to come, the next couple of weeks, very very busy. >> danny cevallos, frank figliuzzi, thank you so much for wrapping up the week with us on the investigations. still ahead, president trump saying he would own the

government shut down. now he says it's the democrat's fault, how we got here, and how this could all end next. e got h this could all end next.

take your razor, yup. up and down, never side to side, shaquem, you got it? come on stay focused. hard work baby, it gonna pay off.

nbc's garrett haake telling us that democrats and the white house are still far from striking a deal to reopen the government and with majority leader mitch mcconnell sending the senate home until thursday, that just happened moments ago, begins to look like a shut down. also david perdue, telling

garrett, vice president pence came to democratic leader chuck schumer with a new dollar figure that president trump will accept for his border wall, between the $1.6 billi $1.6 billion initially negotiated in congress weeks ago and then the $5 billion figure that was passed by the house but rejected by the senate this week. joining me now is democratic strike thattist -- strategist and republican strategist, susan del percio. they're talking a new number, moving off their respect i have sides. >> or are they? >> that's the question. >> and who is the one that is giving in right now? susan? >> well, i think that there may be a little room for compromise, but i don't think you're going to see anything more than a 1 point something, it may be 1.95, but it won't go up to 2. >> you don't think they will split the difference here? >> i don't. >> does it really matter? >> it does because the democrats are in a very good position right now, and they are in a way

able to dictate the terms because the president is weak. he is weak across the bow, he's weak in his administration, he doesn't have sa chief of staff, an out going chief of staff, he's weak on charity, investments, his campaign. he has it coming from all sides. all he really needs to do is say i'm putting up a smart wall or jared kushner did innovation and technology and we now have a smart wall and we're going to use drones and it's going to be the best wall ever create or whatever he wants to say because i think the democrats are able to be in the captain seat right now. >> any other day, potentially, this would be a shut down, but as you were alluding to, we have a lot of other major factors with general mattis leaving, with syria happening, with the markets and now the nasdaq being

in bear territory. these are big issues added into this. >> that's absolutely right, and i think susan is correct in pointing out all of these issues. it won't surprise any american that a politician is being felled by a broken campaign promise. this is particularly important because the more he becomes isolated in his personal and close political affairs, the more he's going to become isolated congressionally, and to me, that's what you're starting to see. having said that, if he were to come out as susan has said and say, look, here's some innovation. here's us funding the wall that does exist. here is us trying to fund some innovation at the border, i think democrats can buy into that. right now, he's sticking the way they are, and democrats, as you said, are in a strong position. >> timing is everything, as they say and let's look at timing, i have a new poll, npr, pbs news hour, maris poll, do you support or not support this statement, president trump should compromise on the border wall to

prevent gridlock. in the poll, overall, close to 60% say yes, that he should compromise. then it asked, well, president trump, should he not compromise. overall, 36% say no, i don't agree with that or i agree with that, that he should not compromise. you're seeing a two to one variance. >> most people want to see things get done, and here's the thing, when you go back to trump's campaign rallies, when you ask people there, do you really think he's going to build a wall and mexico is going to pay for it. they would say no, but we like his fight. that's why it is true, he can't take yes for an answer, and the problem he faces now is that he's already backed out on a deal that with pelosi and schumer and he just basically screwed over mitch mcconnell by doing what he did. >> basil, you can say on those

technicalities if you like, but going back to all of these things on the camel's back, is this a heavier weight this time around and might one of these things break it because we're looking at markets, i keep going back to that because we have had the worst december. >> yeah. >> no santa claus rally here. >> i go back to something an earlier panelist said, there does seem to be more apathy than previously. my guess is part of that is because a lot of voters went to the polls saying we want democrats to take a turn in leadership. it's a wait in see come january. clearly the burden is going to be on us when that happens. i think there's going to be long-term impact in terms of the economy, but the truth is we have to turn around quickly when democrats take charge. >> it's hard to have a stable stock market when you have such an unstable president. >> going back to the polling quick will, susan, president trump should compromise on the border wall to prevent gridlock.

independents two out of three agree with that statement. theoretically, the swing votes, we are going to have another election starting post haste come the new year. >> and you look at the republicans up there, and that's 29%. that's less than the 35% of his base. people just want to see the simprjob get done and if the president is looking towards 2020, he has to look at broadening his base. this is a no brainer. again, he can have a small wall. he can do something. the democrats will give him something on border security. all he has to do is ask for it. >> but is it just that? >> no, it's just that. >> it is just that. but he's intractable. he doesn't compromise. >> where can democrats play this, they're about to be in power 12 days from now. >> that's what i'm saying. they're not overplaying it now, but all eyes will be on democrats come january, absolutely. >> and how can they overplay it, susan? you're a republican strategist,

if you were to help your side of the aisle. >> well, i mean, if they go too far, if they look like they're not willing to do anything and just be vindictive, as long as they keep with we are for border security and we're willing to give x amount for drones or more patrol or something and come up and look reasonable, then they're okay. once they start going like absolute, and they have to be careful because there is a progressive part of the congress coming in, a newly elected progressive wing of that congress or the democratic congress and they will be yelling a lot. >> that's what i was going to say, if we get to a point we're talking about abolish ice, that's when it will start to backfire. >> this was also during the holidays, a christmas shut down. susan del percio, basil, a big legal battle is coming over obamacare after a federal judge in texas ruled it unconstitutional. that came as a surge of people

signing up for the program in the closing weeks of open enrollment for 2019. for much of the sign up period, enrollments were down, 10 to 15%, but in the end, about 8 1/2 million people did sign up. that's down just 4% from last year. up next, a tough year for facebook, ending with many users thinking about breaking up with the social media giant for good. o opportunity is everywhere.

like here. where nothing stands between you and your best friends. ♪

. .

some advertisers are questioning whether it's worth spending their money on facebook now. one chief ad agency said they are wondering if enough is enough. this week "the new york times" said tpaeufacebook was giving t biggest names in the tech information. facebook denying this report. joining me now, washington post tech policy reporter and msnbc tech reporter.

in your reporting, this did happen, yes? >> it's another week and a bad set of privacy headlines for facebook, and in this case it's the relationships that facebook had with some of the most recognized businesses, like amazon and netflix and spotify. in facebook's defense, the company said it struck these relationships because it gave consumers access to features they wanted and helped them to use facebook on apps the apps they wanted to use it on, but facebook started treating their data in a way they did not fully understand about it, and they are talking about regulation and whether facebook should be penalized and what advertisers and users might do in response as well. >> what is the board going to do with mark zuckerberg, if they can do anything at all given the amount of shares he owns? >> the board is not going to do anything about mark zuckerberg. mark zuckerberg is there to

stay, and i think the real question is what is washington going to do about mark zuckerberg. we have had him dragged tomorrow capitol hill to testify, and they are upset with the way they handle user information, and there could be huge fines for the company if they find facebook did wrong. >> 12 days until the new congress, and when we have a new congress we have a new relationship with silicon valley and congress, and will that gap get smaller than it is right now? >> potentially. i mean, it's certainly the case there's a younger crop of lawmakers that uses technology in a way that perhaps the older counterparts did not, and there's an interest broadly across generations and parties at holding some of the companies accountable. when you add to that the fact the democrats have spoke openly about the need for hearings and regulation and the fact they are

going to control the committees that can do those sorts of things in the house, it could be a tough year not just for facebook but for google and twitter and some of the tech peers in silicon valley. >> and you are here on the east coast, you have been watching the markets, a rough year as been said by the cnbc, and numbers we have not seen since 2008. we don't like to use those sorts of benchmarks. is something happening in tech right now that we should be worried about? >> i think you definitely have to keep an eye on some of the social media companies. there's a new wariness among some new investors, and that being said we are entering a year in which we will see a high number of official offerings, and so it's a very complicated market. the issue is going to be are w lawmakers and regulators going to do something about it, and are they going to bring huge penalties against facebook, and then if that happens what does

that mean for the market? that's going to be where the rubber hits the road for the company? >> talk about rubber hitting the road. which elected members, again, representatives elect, are you watching that might understand that rubber hitting the road? >> i don't think it's so much members who are elected opposed to specific members now sitting in positions of power. we talked about the house judiciary committee, and the things they can demand in the form of investigations, but congressm congressman nadler, and adam schiff, he could take over a panel next year and we could see a conversation, not about privacy, but foreign meddling with social media. we saw russia using social media to spread disinformation. there's lots of other members who can control the gavels and demand documents and testimony and other things from the tech executives. >> yeah, you watch the beltway and silicon valley trying to get

together as opposed to moving apart from reach other. a great conversation, and thank you for your specifics. i thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> thanks for having me. >> at the top of the hour, al sharpton, and there's a speech about broken promise pz that there's brushing...and there's oral-b power brushing. oral-b just cleans better. even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. and unlike sonicare, oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. oral-b.

brush like a pro.

so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free.

"politics nation". well, that wraps it up for us here this hour on msnbc.

i turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "politics nation." >> good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's need, the only decision the republicans and democrats have agreed on is to go home for chris. we are at the top of the hour 17 of a partial government shutdown, and that's hundreds of thousands of federal workers in limbo, just three days before the christmas holiday. as the fight over president trump's border wall reached its predicted outcome this week, with senate democrats united in their refuse annual to give the house the $5 billion requested to fun you had the wall, and republican senate majority