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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  February 21, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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2:00 p.m. in washington. roger stone just walked into a hearing. she tweeted a photo on monday showing crosshairs next to judge amy berman's head. he took that picture down and apologized, which was uncharacteristic for stone, but judge jackson could remind his bail for that. stone is in court as officials tell nbc news that the doj is preparing for the end of the special counsel's more two-year-old investigation. robert mueller is expected to issue a confidential report any day now, any day now, guys. mueller's conclusion will land on the desk of president trump's new attorney general, william barr. what becomes of his findings, whether they're released to congress and then in some form, to the public, is still, though, an open question. one, though, that the president says is up to his, quote,
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tremendous new ag. >> mr. president, should the mueller report be released? >> that will be totally up to the new attorney general. he's a tremendous man, a tremendous person who really respects this country and respects the justice department, so that will be totally up to him. the new attorney general. >> if mueller's probe is wrapping up, there is the issue of what becomes of the multiple investigations that may still be active. for example, conservative author jerome corsi says he was told by mueller's team in november that he will be indicted. so where might that case lead? congress has sent transcripts to mueller to determine whether witnesses like donald trump jr. and eric prince may have lied during their congressional testimonies. like roger stone and michael cohen did. so do those inquiries and where mueller's probe wraps -- when mueller's probe wraps, excuse me. so the big question we're asking today is, is roger stone the last indictment in the mueller probe?
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joining me now, nbc news white house correspondent, kelly o'donnell, nbc news senior investigatives producer, anna schecter. "washington post" national security reporter, matt z zaptowski, ben willis, also an nbc legal analyst. and former trump campaign adviser, sam nunberg. we've got a lot of folks and a lot of news. we'll tripe to get to all of it. kelly, first to you. with news that the special counsel's office is wrapping things up, it has now been reported widely by multiple news outlets, what is the white house doing in preparation for it? >> well, we can imagine a couple of things. that when you talk about the president's outside legal counsel, so not directly the white house, they have long said that they are preparing a counter report to argue the evidence as they see it, to be able to respond. that kind of thing. to be ready with their own sort of counterpunch. within the white house, there is, of course, a department within the white house council's
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office tasked with dealing with all matters that involve the office of the special counsel and the congressional investigations. so they would likely be preparing any necessary statements that relate to things that come out of this report. and then in terms of the press shop, there is, at this point, from talking to advisers here, no specific plan about how they would respond. would it be a statement, would there be any kind of comment, or would they just simply let it become the domain of the new attorney general, william barr? it is the president's expressed public statement that this is william barr's decision. he's a trump appointee, asked extensively about this during his confirmation hearing, about the plan of providing it to the -- considering a transparency, is maybe a better way to say it. and there would be limitations within that report, we expect, with grand jury information and other that i think so may be redacted. but we don't yet know how they are crafting the official
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response. important to note, katie, the president is expected to be out of the country next week for the vietnam summit, hosted by vietnam with north korea's kim jong-un. katy? >> and news does seem to always break when the president's out of town. there's that little piece of knowledge that we've learned over the years. >> we have lived that, yes. >> so what the -- one of the other big questions is, what is this report possibly going to contain? and we've gotten some clues, all of us, from the indictments, the speaking indictments, as they're referred to, colloquially, about what has been going on behind the scenes. but we have one major piece that has not been shown by mueller's team, and that's the charge of conspiracy. matt, this is from your piece today. none of the americans charged by mueller are accused of conspiring with russia to interfere in the 2016 election. determining whether any trump associates had plotted with the kremlin in 2016 was the central question assigned to mueller when he got the job in a moment of crisis for the fbi, the
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justice department, and the country. so if that is answered by the mueller report, i mean, that's a really big charge. should we expect to find out that at the very least? >> i certainly hope so, but what the regulations call for is simply a confidential report that details who was charged and why and who was not charged and why. and there's so much latitude, of course, inside of that, to lay things out, you know, you could see them saying, we didn't find evidence that would substantiate a conspiracy charge, but we found all of this evidence of interaction between trump campaign people and russia. and while it may not have been criminal, it certainly was inappropriate. i hope that the report answers this ultimately question. i mean, this is why robert mueller was appointed, to determine whether my american s coordinated with the kremlin, to influence the election. but i worry that it might not. the way those regulations are crafted, you could also write a
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very narrow report. we charge the 34 people we've charged so far and allege this. we found no evidence or we found a lack of evidence to find anyone else, end of report. you know, there's this central question of whether the trump campaign coordinated with russia. i don't -- you know, i sort of want to manage people's expectations. i don't know that we will ever get a satisfactory answer to that. >> the president says it's up to william barr. why don't we listen to william barr in his own words about what he thinks or at least what he thought before he was confirmed about what he might be able to be release. >> i will make as much information available as i can consistent with the rules and regulations that are part of the special counsel regulations. >> i don't know -- at the end of the day, what will be releasable. i don't know what bob mueller is writing. >> so, obviously, it's a very vague answer to a very specific question, "as much as i can" and
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that can be read in a number of different ways, as ben was just saying. so the question we asked at the top of the show is, is roger stone going to be the last person we see indicted by the special counsel? or do you expect to see another indictment or another -- or more than one indictment before he sends his report to william barr? >> so i think that is not clear. and i think there are several distinct possibilities. and it goes to the question of what "wrap up" really means. one possibility is, wrap up means you file all the remaining indictments you were going to file and then you drop the report on bill barr's desk, right, in which case we might see a flurry of activity in the next few days or couple of weeks, as we head towards this wrap up that. that's not the tone of the stories, but that is, you know, possible. second possibility is that -- and this is the one i actually think is most likely, is that
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what wrap up means is that the office of special counsel is referring back all the remaining cases that it hasn't yet finished, back to more conventional justice department components, because it is focused principally on the behavior and the activity of the president. it feels it has answered those questions to the extent that it can, and its report is focused in that area. and the remaining questions are going to be referred back to the other justice department components, as some of them already have been. still a third possibility, which is the one that's most favorable to the president, that all of these cases that we thought were, you know, forth com organize might be forthcoming have in fact petered out and shut down means really the investigation is done and this is the wrap-up report that actually follows the completion of all of the investigative and
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prosecutorial activities. all of those are consistent with the term "wrap up" or finishing up. they are very different from one another. and of course, none of them answers the most important question, which is, what is the substantiative material that is contained in that report? >> you've got that right. and the thing about language is that it can be interpreted so many different ways when you use terms as broad as "wrap-up." sam, we have you here for a very specific reason. of all the people we interview, you are the one who has actually sat down with the special counsel's office multiple times and you've sat down for grand jury testimony. you've been in the room. you know what they are asking. there are questions about other people and whether or not other people within donald trump's orbit might be indicted. stone has been indicted. corsi, jerome corsi has said that he believes he's going to be indicted, but he so far has not. there was a lot of talk about don jr., but don jr.'s name has
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never come up in any of the -- or at least don jr. has not been indicted. from what you were asked and what you can tell us, without violating any agreements you made with the special counsel, what do you see happening? >> i can't imagine that the special counsel is not going to release something that shows a road map for the house to investigate a conspiracy to answer it as a political question. >> impeachment, you mean? >> correct, for articles of impeachment. there is no way that in light of even what we've seen in these indictments, which you've reported on, you've seen the way that they've gone very systemically, from the russian, the private russians, to the russian gru, to even roger, mentioning roger, getting to the edge of the campaign vis-a-vis bannon and manafort or gaetz, e gates, we don't know who roger was in contact with earlier in july. i can't imagine that information won't become political. and i think there's another
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aspect here. remember, rod rosenstein has put out multiple statements pant when he is going to leave this justice department. and i think that that goes to what he wants released. and i think that the reason that we're now hearing that this report is going to be released very soon is because barr has named his replacement for rosenstein. and i think that in general, from what we've seen being reported, very quickly, whatever isn't released by barr will ultimately get drip, drip, dripped out, anyway. >> so you think, from what you experienced, that the special counsel's office is working on a road map if not to actual charges -- again, you can't charge a sitting president, according to doj statutes, of course there's questions about that -- at the very least, they're going to have a road map to impeachment for -- >> well, a road map to their findings. i'm not saying that mueller is going to say whether or not the president is going to be impeached. i don't think he can. and remember, ken starr, even
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when he talked about the reasons why he decided not to indict hillary clinton, the reason he was able to do that is because hoe he was operating under the watergate law, which meant he was accountable to congress. this is the justice department. and as you mentioned, there were plenty of things that i gave to the grand jury about donald trump that i don't think should be released in the public purview, as well. these are things that were personal. that they were issues that i don't think -- >> unlike the ken starr report, which got very personal, you think? >> yes, it did. >> map, if there is a road map that could lead congress to consider impeachment, if there are impeachable offenses, how much of an obligation does barr have to give that directly to congress? >> i think congress is going to try to get that, whether barr wants to give it to them or not. look back at the hillary clinton e-mail investigation. very soon after that, we saw the fbi publicly release in response to freedom of information act requests reports of interviews, 302s, they're called, a detailed
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investigate civil summary. and these were just like reporters requesting them. congress is going to be all over barr and all over mueller to release whatever materials they have. if that report is like a detailed road map of what he found, great. they can probably get underway with whatever they want to do more quickly, but even if it's not, i think they are going to scrutinize this investigation, just like we saw the hillary clinton e-mail investigation scrutinized. they're going to call him before congress, if they feel that's necessary. they're going to subpoena materials if they feel that's necessary. and they're going to get answers to what he found to help inform whatever it is that they want to do. >> and individual democratic lawmakers, mostly, have said that they plan on doing exactly that, especially if they're not getting all the information that they want from william barr. ana shechter, you're at the courthouse where roger stone is. there was a gag order in this case. what's the likelihood that roger stone walks out of that courtroom? >> reporter: we have no idea what's coming, but clearly, this judge was extremely upset with
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the way that roger stone has been conducting himself online. she was personally attacked on monday. he disputes that, but she's sort of taking no prisoners by immediately calling this hearing. so this is a surprise. and when i -- you know, you watched roger stone walk in, it's just a reminder of the historic times we're in. yet another one of trump's inner circle is being called into a federal courthouse. it's a really crazy time right now and roger stone is yet another one of these characters who finds himself front and center. so the judge has a lot of leniency today, so it could be anything from a slap on the wrist, but she is calling into question today, she's going to decide if his bail should be revoked. so he could go to jail today. and his inner circle, everyone's really nervous. and nobody had any inkling of what's to come. so they know, it could be a surprise and he might not walk out of here. he might be on the next flight back down to florida.
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we really don't know. >> she did put a gag order on the case. roger stone likes to talk. he continued to talk. and this morning there was an instagram, ana? >> reporter: this morning, there was an instagram -- yet another instagram, just an hour ago, there was an instagram of a passage from isaiah, a biblical passage. so h so he continues to post, and continues to post that hashtag, roger stone did nothing wrong. the judge really takes issues with these statements. the gag order, specifically stated that she's concerned that these public statements that he's making could tamper with the jury. and potentially affect a trial. so, she really is taking this seriously. also, let's remember what roger stone is charged with. it's lying to congress, but it's also witness tampering, intimidating witness randy credi credico. and so when he puts out these photos and a photo of her, he
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might say, it was not to intimidate her, but it is a little bit intimidating to see something like that and she's clearly taking that very seriously. >> her head with a target behind it. ana shechter, kelly o'donnell, matt zaptowski, ben wittes, and sam nunberg, thank you very much. until now, mark harris appeared to be on the fringe of recent ballot fraud allegations in the ninth district, but then his son took the stand and he changed everything. emotional moment at the hearing, that is ahead next. but right after this break, actor guijussie smollett is in court on charges that he faked a hate crime for personal gain. what the chicago police superintendent wishes the media was focusing on instead, that's next. a was focusing on instead, that's next tion. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave.
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"empire" actor jussie smollett will appear in court this hour. he turned himself into chicago police this morning, facing a felony charge for allegedly staging an attack on himself, because investigators say he was unhappy with his salary. according to police, smollett claimed two men beat him on the street at 2:00 a.m. on january 29th, poured bleach on him, put a rope around his neck, and yelled racist and homophobic slurs. today, as chicago authorities updated the public on the case, the city's police department superintendent, eddie johnson, delivered his own scathing indictment of smollett. >> before i get started on why
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we're here, you know, as i look out into the crowd, i just wish that was families of gun violence in this city got this much attention, because that's who really deserves the amount of attention that we're giving to this particular incident. i'm left hanging my head and asking why. why would anyone, especially an african-american man, use the symbolism of a noose to make false accusations? how could someone look at the hatred and suffering associated with this symbol and see an opportunity to manipulate that symbol to further his own public profile? >> joining me now from the courthouse in chicago is nbc news correspondent, ron mott. ron, we've got a couple of questions for you. first, though, what's happening -- what's the latest with smollett? >> hey, there, katy, we're expecting this bond hearing to get underway in about ten minutes' time. we don't expect that jussie
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smollett will speak at all in this hearing. essentially, the prosecution will lay out a few facts, why they think they are in a position to argue for a certain amount of bail. the defense, if they don't agree with that, may counter, and the court will set conditions of bail. we do expect that he will leave the courthouse probably just off the camera position to the left over here. a producer tells me that his family, some of his brothers, walked into the courthouse here, just a few minutes ago. we're not expecting this to last very long. because the indictment was handed up from the grand jury, we're going to waive some of the preliminary hearings that we had. just to go right to bond conditions, and he presumably will meet those bond conditions and leave. >> ron, you're based in chicago. chicago police department superintendent, eddie johnson, who we just heard, was very blunt in his assessment of this case a little bit earlier, saying that he really regrets the amount of coverage that this case got and how little coverage
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general gun violence in chicago gets. ron, you did a big story on gun violence back in december. tell us a little bit about what's been going on in chicago? give us that reporting that we have not been paying enough attention to? >> well, the good news, katy, number one, is that we've seen a couple of years now where the gun violence and the gun crimes here are on the decline. so that's obviously always good news. but the one thing i have asked superintendent johnson this a number of times i've interviewed him is the clearance rate for homicides in chicago is very low. we're talking about a quarter of all cases here are solved within "x" number of months. that's not very good. i ask him, how do you expect to bring the crime rate down even more if the people committed these murders aren't being caught. so they know they have a challenge there. but his frustration, and i've sort of had a sense this was building over the past 10 or 15
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days while they investigated this particular case, hearing from sources in the police department that they were frustrated by the tweets that were going out by certain reporters on this particular story and we sort of saw it come to a head this morning when superintendent johnson said, man, if you would just give this kind of attention to some of these homicide cases in chicago, maybe we can solve some of these tragedies for these families here. so that's the backdrop of what w we're up against here. this case lasted 23 days and it took a twist last wednesday, those two brothers from nigh ja -- nigeria returned to chicago. >> stay off twitter until you know off the facts. let law enforcement doi its job. next, the coast guard lieutenant accused of plotting domestic terror and is the u.s. doing enough to combat this particular type of terrorism? erm truecar is great for finding new cars.
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according to the government, the coast guard lieutenant who was arrested friday on drug and weapons charges is going to be in custody for at least two weeks until the government can show evidence or bring more charges against him. the coast guard flagged christopher hasen to federal law enforcement because of internet
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searches of extremist websites at work. federal prosecutors say a cache of firearms and over a thousand rounds of ammunition were found in his basement apartment and they say they found more evidence that he aspired to commit mass murder, including a spread sheet of targets that included democratic lawmakers and journalists here at msnbc and at cnn. joining me from the courthouse in washington, nbc news correspondent, hans nichols, and rolling stone contributing editor, janet rightman is here as well. she's writing a book. so she's graciously decided to join us for a moment. hans, first to you. what is happening down there? what can we expect? >> reporter: so we can expect potentially additional charges to be filed against mr. hassen in the next 14 days. the judge, judge charles day in this case, essentially started the clock ticking. and there's a 14-day window to either offer more evidence that hasan poses an immediate threat to the community or come up with additional charges.
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listen to how the prosecutors when they just spoke moments ago couched the threat. >> the sheer number and force of the weapons that were recovered from mr. hasan's residence in this case coupled with the disturbing nature of his writings appear to reflect a very significant threat to the safety of our community, particularly given the position of trust that mr. hasan held with the united states government. >> investigating potential threats to life or acts of terrific remain a priority of the fbi and we will continue to dedicate significant investigative resources to those types of activities. >> reporter: so the fbi worked very closely. the special agent in charge with the counterterrific task force, that they're basically arguing here, as you look at this man's history, the amount of weapons he had, his drug use and the online searches that he was doing and the acceleration of that, that he presents a threat to the community. the judge basically agreeing with that, but saying only for
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14 days, otherwise you'll have to show some more evidence. >> and "the washington post" has a little bit more on what investigators were able to find of his online. they said that hasan has been studying the 1,500-page manifesto of right-wing terrorist anders brevic, taking steroids and narcotics, believing it would heighten his abilities to carry out the attacks. when they raided hasan's apartment, they found a locked contain eer loaded with more th 30 vials of what looked to be human growth hormone. so janice, you're writing a book on american extremism. we're seeing more cases or we have heard bigger stories in the news of white supremacists who are -- or people who claim to be, who are looking to attack
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politicians, the government, the media. we just came off that man who was sending pipe bombs to various prominent politicians, democratic politicians, donors. and to folks in the media. what is the u.s. government doing to focus on this side of the terror issue? we hear so much about foreign terror? what are we doing to focus on this? >> i think they're finally beginning to pay attention to this issue. i think for a long time, it was not the focus. and certainly during the post-9/11 era, it was definitely not the focus. we focused on international terrorism and even after barack obama was elected, when there was a real concern that there would be some of an uptick in right-wing attacks, this was a political hot potato. and it was really a subject that was a very tough subject for the right wing. >> why? >> oh, well, in 2008 and 2009,
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there were some research done by dhs and the fbi showing that the election of obama plus the financial crisis could lead to an uptick in the far right. and this was kind of a routine -- it wasn't a full -- it was like an internal report and it was released and it got the attention of the far right they turned it into a massive political issue. dhs rescinded it. >> became problematic to investigate these sorts of things. >> but i think since trump, it has become obviously more of a concern. the internet has fueled a lot of this conversation. it's -- you know, also, the far right is a very horizontal, just, all -- you know, all ideological movements have become very horizontal in this age of the internet, when you can just sort of post whatever you want to online. and while the fbi was for sure, for sure tracking teenagers who
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followed the islamic state or would post support for the islamic state and in some cases arrested them and in some cases put tremendous pressure on them as 15 or 16-year-olds, this is not done for the most part for the domestic extremists -- >> or suspected domestic extremists. >> with this guy, hasson, we don't know if he was acting -- was he going took into account on this? we don't know if he had co-conspirators, we don't know if this was a fever dream that he wanted to be anders breivik or if this was a real thing that he wanted to be an anders breivik tack, but the point is, we don't know because there hasn't been a lot of focus on these guys. >> put up that graphic one more time, talking about domestic terror fatalities compared to islamic extremist fatalities. 71% to 26%.
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striking number. >> yeah, actually, i think the adl has a more recent report. some of this comes from the anti-defamation league, that there were lyiike 50 extremist-related murders, just last year, and all of them were far-right extremists. so, you know, domestic extremists are almost 100% responsible for this kind of extremist-related violence in our country. the number of isis attacks in the united states. i mean, when you have a -- the problem is, when you have an attack that's connected to foreign terrorism, it's usually these mass casualty events. it so ups the threat and ups the fear. everybody's terrified. >> and it's used politically. >> oh, my god! it's driven a massive -- look, we have a counterterrorism industry. we have a complex. you know, billions of dollars are spent on this.
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the focus of the fbi, there are offices of the fbi that will ha have, maybe they'll have seven or ten agents who are looking at terrorism and maybe one will be looking at domestic terrorism and that includes the left so, i have heard from my sources that they have been to conferences where fbi officials have stood up and talked about the tremendous threat of antifa and black lives matter and the sort of left-leaning movements in our country, as if those are this serious domestic terror threat. the question is like, look -- >> clearly not! >> the numbers don't bear that out. >> yeah, so, i think this is really an opening for a much bigger and more serious conversation. >> and we hope to have you back. and we wish you good luck on your book. >> thank you so much. >> let us know how that goes. janice reitman, thank you so
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much. the hearing for roger stone has started. once we find out what's going to happen with stone, we'll bring it to you live. stay with us for that. and next up, the bombshell testimony in north carolina that has put a republican candidate in the middle of an alleged ballot fraud scheme. llot fraud . i think it will fit. want a performance car that actually fits your life? llot fraud . introducing the new 2019 ford edge st. capability meets power. in the first suv from the ford performance team. the new 2019 ford edge st
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a small update from the hearing that roger stone is currently in in washington. stone's lawyer, bruce rogo says that the gag order should not be
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changed and he wants to put stone on the stand to explain himself. the judge says he will get an opportunity to do so. again, we're going to continue watching this. we'll bring you any other developments as they arise. in the meantime, there is a lot of drama down in north carolina's 9th congressional district, where the 2018 midterm house race has still not been certified. the board of elections there is looking into allegations of voter fraud that could have benefited mark harris, the republican who won the race. yesterday, harris' son, now an assistant u.s. attorney, took the stand to say that he warned his dad that he had concerns about the political operative he was hiring, mccrae dowless, and that he might potentially use illegal tactics to collect ballots. >> you had suspicions about mccrae dowless from the start? yes. since the 2016 primary election based on those results. >> and you've expressed that to
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your father? >> i did. i love my dad and i love my mom. okay? i think they made mistakes in this process and they certainly did things differently than i would have done them. >> take a look at this, harris, his father, broke down while his son was testifying. today mark harris took the stand himself and claimed that despite warnings of past misdeeds, he had confidence in dowless. >> in the meeting, mccrae has been so clear, i didn't think it necessary to call those same men back and say, do you have any knowledge or understanding that he's collecting ballots? >> joining me now, nbc news capitol hill reporter leigh ann caldwell and jacob soboroff who was with me in north carolina at this hearing just the other day. to leigh ann, harris has taken the stand, i know harris' lawyer says he knew nothing about this and even if it's found that
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these ballots were improperly changed, that's not going to change the outcome of the election. how significant is it that harris' son took the stand yesterday and said that he warned his father? and does that mean we're more likely to hear the board say that this election was tainted? >> reporter: katy, it was extremely significant, that testimony yesterday by john harris. it really undercut mark harris' entire defense. so yesterday, while we had this riveting testimony, emotional testimony from john harris, today, we have this day of uncertainty. mark harris took the stand, insisting that he still was not aware of any illegal activity that could have taken place in his campaign. he was saying that dowless assured him that he worked within the confines of the law. but then at the very end of this section of his testimony, it started to get quite personal. hep called his son young, 27 years old, said he was
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judgmental and had a taste of arrogance. after that, his attorney said, let's take a break. i need to -- we need to go and we need to confer behind closed doors. they went into a plunch break and now they're in closed session. we don't really know what's happening right now, but something strange is going on that we hope to find out when they come from this closed session, katy. >> that is, it's jaw dropping to hear those details. let's listen a little bit more from mark harris himself talking about his son's concerns. >> obviously, i read these e-mails today in a very different intellectual light than what i read them when my 27-year-old son, who is a sharp attorney -- >> extremely sharp. >> extremely sharp, but i'm his dad. and i know he's -- a little judgmental and has a little taste of arrogance and some other things. and i'm very proud of him and love him with all my heart. but this was a father and a son
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and weighing out -- and in all truthfulness, today, he was right. i mean, he, obviously, he was right. >> that's exactly what leigh ann was just describing. jacob, we tried to ask harris a number of questions on tuesday and we didn't get a single one answered. >> i'm smiling not because this is funny, this is horrible, and again, is a very specific example of republican-led election fraud, not democratic led, and republicans are always the ones accusing democrats of election fraud. but particularly, mark harris didn't show any emotion at all when we chased him down the hallway or say anything about his son being judgmental or having a taste of arrogance. he didn't answer one question that we asked him. we asked him, should you have a new election? was there fraud in this election? should this board vote to uphold the integrity of the vote? hep doesn't want to talk to us whatsoever. now all of a sudden he's had a change of heart. and strangely, it comes at the expense of his 27-year-old son,
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who's an assistant u.s. attorney. so family problems, definitely. election fraud confirmed by people in this fraud -- >> ballot fraud. >> excuse me. are they going to overturn the outcome of this election. >> so the gop down there says that the ballots that are in question and leigh ann, tell us if we've got any update on this, the number of ballots in question would not change the outcome of the election. there was still a big question about whether any ballots were thrown out and not mailed in. have we seen any evidence to prove that? >> reporter: katy, that has not even been part of the discussion in the past 20, 22 hours, ever since john harris took to the stand in this surprise testimony. it's almost been a moot point, a side point. now mark harris is just trying to figure out, how to move forward in his own defense. this is incredible.
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we now have two children in this hearing who have testified against their fathers. on the first day, you had lisa brit completely implicate her step-father, mccrae dowless, and on day three, john harris testified against his own dallas, mark harris. it's really taken a turn that i don't think any of us expected and the board is going to have to decide still what to do with this election, beyond the family drama that's unfolding. >> so, lisa brit said her father, mccrae dowless, told her to fill in the rest of the bubbles, the votes down-ballots, if she saw an open ballot, she collected an open ballot and saw it was not finished, to fill it in down the republican line. jacob, the question is all going to surround this legal term of tainted, a tainted election. the it's the lowest bar for this particular election that you need to overcome. but what is the definition of a tainted election?
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and does this meet it? >> when you and i sat down together with the attorney for mark harris, he basically said there wasn't one. and it's sort of the same ambiguous term. and at the end of the day, this whole election could be overturned or thrown out -- >> hold on, hold on. mark harris has just made a statement. he said he's suffered from strokes lately and he now believes a new election should be called. >> wow. >> mark harris, the republican who won this election has now said he thinks there should be a new hearing. let's watch the hearing live. >> is the robinson county board of elections absentee request log, return log.
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>> so mark harris has said a new election could be called. let's listen again. >> mr. chairman, we're offering this to show the three entries on this absentee return log were brought in by jennifer boyd, who worked for mccrae dowless and we believe these are all absentee requests that were gathered and paid for by mccrae dowless. >> and they number -- >> so mark harris, the republican who won the election, even though the election has not been certified, is now saying a new election should be called. he did not -- he refused to answer that question, when we asked him that very specifically on tuesday. but it's not up to mark harris. it is up to the board of elections down here. those folks you're looking at right now, and they're going to be the one who is decide. >> if i could just say, katy, those folks we're looking at on
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the left-hand side of our screen, those five folks, three are democrats, two are republicans. there they are. and four of them have to vote together, a super majority, in order for a new election to be called in north carolina. so i would assume based on the new information that we're getting here about what mark harris had to say there will be a vote at some point. >> we're waiting to get this new sound, leann, for all of the time to take you out to do a live shot, this had to be the worst. >> that's fine i had a producer here who told me this was happening while you were talking. this was obviously a huge development. that is an under statement. what this does is even though the board has to still vote, there is three republicans and three democrats and two republicans, one republican will have to join with the democrats, but mark harris just gave them an invitation to do so. i think they had to make this
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decision, mark harris and his attorneys realize the testimony of his son, john harris, was extremely damming yesterday. and when he took the stand, it was his son's testimony that caused problems but other signals that he would run into trouble including, including, late -- there was evidence released late last night that was an e-mail from mark harris, and they're saying why did i get this at 11:00 last night? there was a lot of questioning about going what mark harris new, what sort of conversations he was having that he was not supposed to be having. so it was a big day of legalese. he was trying to walk a fine line and it proved that he was no longer able to do so and it
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sounds like he will give up. it is also important to say he has an illness. he is not super healthy, he had to drive three hours to get some medicine and then three hours last night to raleigh. so there is a lot going on here and this decision is still surprising. >> no doubt about that, and we're still working on being able to turn around that sound from the hearing, i can read you exactly what mark harris said. he said it has been brought to my attention that i talked to my younger son matthew that i did not think my son's e-mails would be part of, obviously, he said he went the hospital on january 18th and experienced two strokes. he thought he was strong enough to deal with this hearing, but he struggled this morning, let's
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hear it from his own words. >> i believe a new election should be called. the election has been undermined to a new extent that a new election o should be called. dan mccready was not there when we were there, and if we're wrong, but i wonder what his reaction will be to this. >> right now his opponent is saying there will be a new election in race. the operatives, they reported
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reportedly -- the tainted election could have been met not having anything to do with those absentee ballots, looking at early vote totals. they will not have to make this decision with mark harris in the false, now he said he wants a new election as well. >> it happened in november of 2018. north carolina's ninth congressional district, and it sounds like there won't be one for a little bit of time. breaking news in the roger stone hearing, he is now on the stand he is explaining the judge got him back in court today. he just told the judge has spoken, stone is part of all of
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this and it is part of the conversations he may or may not have had with various folks with wikileaks and the e-mails released. he was indicted the other day by mull muellers team, and he decided to put the judge's head next to ro crosshairs. >> secondly, i wrote that roger stone might roll the dice and just violate it. this is roger stone's specialty. working with the public, influencing the media and the narrative. it is how he became a wealthy m man. he could be spending time in
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jail, but he must decide it is worth the risk. the fact that he is apologizing on the stand is not a surprise. he files one of the most intertaping filings i have seen in a long time, it is an apology. they picked up the phone, they found out and they said we're filing something right away to apologize and put it in front of the judge and you're going to say i i'm sorry. >> i'm surprised by what he just said on the stand, he said i'm sorry for my own stupidity but not as much as my wife is kicking me. i am being treated for emotional distress. i let myself and my family and attorneys down. it was a momentarily lapse of
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judgment. people have been talking about me being raped in prison, i'm having a hard time putting food on the table and making rent. have you ever heard roger stone sound like that? >> i have never heard roger stone sound lierk that, however i have been noticing a rising tress level. i think he was making these instagram posts in order to raise money on the stone defense fund. that way people could contribute, but this was just another one of those posts. i wake up every morning to another new post. it bha a different alarm clock. number one. >> how do you expect the judge to respond to this. >> the judge is having his own orders violated.
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they take it personally when they give a defendant a chance or they enter an order telling the defendant not make any money lick statements, and the defendant goes out to violate that order. it will be interesting to see how the judge punishes this kind of behavior. >> thank you, guys, we'll keep an eye on this and we'll take a very quick commercial break. is very quick commercial break. migraine with botox®.
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