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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  March 2, 2019 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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donald trump has win enormous incentive to remain in office as long as he remains in office t justice department will not indictment him or put him on trials for his crime. he loses that protection as soon as he leaves the white house. he'll do whatever he can to make it tough for him to go. >> joy, just to clarify, i have zero faith in him. >> you heard it here first, matt miller. thanks to matt miller and joyce. that does it for our week, thank you so much for watching, i am nicole wallace, i will see you back here on monday at 4:00 p.m. top secret clearance, let's play "hardball."
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>> good evening, i am steve cornacki in for chris matthews. chris will be back for his vacation on monday night. tonight though we continue to follow the explosive news that president trump lied about how jared kushner received his security clearance. four people briefed on the manner told new york times that president trump ordered his chief of staff to grant his son-in-law top secret security clearance. the decision was so alarming that john kelly, he wrote a con testimo
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contemporaneous memo. al also, don mcgahn, wrote an outline the cia had of his recommendation that it would be reje rejected. kushner was granted permanent clearance by career officials after the completion of the fbi background check with no involvement by the president. the decision ended months of drama over the matter. john kelly had limited kushner's access to the most sensitive because according to the washington post, he was uncomfortable with kushner's status. president trump backed that decision. take a look. >> that'll be up to general kelly. general kelly respects jared a lot. general kelly will make that call. i won't make that call. i will let the general who's right here make that call. >> u.s. intelligence officials had flagged a number of concerns to the white house like reports, foreign intelligence officials from china and reisrael and mexo were discussing ways they can manipulate kushner and other concerns relating to the trump tower meeting and two other
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meetings with the russian ambassadors. the russia related context were of particular interest with the special counsel, robert mueller and his team. not just by trump himself but by kushner's own lawyer and by his wife, ivanka trump. take a look. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues but the president had no involvement pretending to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> just two months ago, the house oversight committee launched an investigation into the white house's security clearance process in today. elijah cummings threaten to subpoena the white house. >> i am joined by forme deputy
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chief of staff, ken dilanian and omica oyang. thank you for being with us. these memos are being reported from mcgahn and kelly. have our commit confirmed that at this moment, they still exist some where. >> no, we have not. it is one of the reasons we are seeking cooperation from the white house. failing that, we have to reach out to mcgahn and kelly to try to get their individual cooperation with the committee and ask them to produce those memos. >> the conversations and the communications between your committee and the white house, i say in this letter tonight that your chairman, elijah cummings, he makes effort to make this and not go public with this and so
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forth. have they been cooperative or any explanation or he's not confirming it? >> no, steve, they stone walled these requests. our concern about security clearances predates this incident by over a year. we have been concerned about the interim security incident. how did mr. porter get any kind of security clearance. this is not the president would say or try to get documentation about process and issues that. we knew there were issues of jared kushner and now we know how bad they were. >> how much time does the white house have before your committee move on a subpoena? >> i think mr. cummings indicated in today's letter, this is your final warning and we give you around march 5th,
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after that, we'll resort to other legal means. >> the other question that you alluded to a minute ago. this involves memos from mcgahn orac or kelly. if there is subpoena issues at the same time, would you be reaching out to them? >> certainly with general kelly, there could be an opportunity for voluntary compliance. he was bothered enough about the nature of the denial of the security clearance and the fact that the president lied and told him to over turn that negative recommendation and grant it anyh anyhow. i would hope upon reflection, general kelly may voluntarily cooperate with the committee and produce that. >> congressman, gerry connoly, thank you for joining us.
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>> my pleasure. >> ken dilanian, what can you tell us of the status of jared kushner, what kind of clearance or access does he enjoy right now. >> our understanding is he holds a top secret clearance but not a top secret clearance that gives him access to information. that's what some people calling a higher level of information allowing you to access to cia and nsa. because of the president's orders, the white house security office did grant him a top security clearance even though members of the white house staff have recommended doing that based on the fbi background. there are two processes here, both the fbi and the cia flagged concerns of jared kushner's background including issues of foreign influence. it can be mitigated but there is
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no mitigation in this case. does he still have these issues or subject to foreign influence. of course, the other issue is the lies. >> just when you say potential influence, things that are flagged. we go through the headlines but take us through specifically what are the kinds of things that are setting off alarm bells there? >> well, obviously he got a real estate empire that has financial relationships with foreign countries. his major investment on 666 avenue got a huge infusion of cash associated with qatar fund. these are potential avenues of foreign influence on him. it does not mean he's influenced. it is a concern that officials would have that anyone would have to mitigate and then look, let's go back to the beginning, he did not fill out his initial security clearance form correctly. he neglected to list any of his foreign contacts. that would rule you out as a clearance holder.
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you would be done at that point. he got a lot of special treatments here. >> take us through a little bit of folks hearing of the security clearance process and the executive branch for the first time. all of this different area of government that don't get a lot of attention from day-to-day and a lot of procedural stuff gotten new attention of the trump era, take us through how this process would work in jared kushner's position? >> well, thanks, steve. suddenly clearance is hot in washington and around country. one of the things that i can tell you from having worked at doj for 18 years and served as an employment lawyer in terms of dealing with people who are trying to come work at the department and sometimes having hiccups in their background is that what happens is and this is similar with respect to the white house but investigators are on the ground looking into
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foreign contacts and neighborhood and your former employees. they're trying to run downey issues that could impact your ability to be trusted so what happens is the investigators sort of dig up anything there is on you. they presented to career officials whose job day in and day out is to evaluate across the board, the types of issues that everyday people have and they then take those evaluations and recommend whether they see no issues in you having a national security access or having top secret clearance or they raise red flags. when those red flags are raised, it is incumbent upon the employer, the agency to make the call. here we know there were some disputes and usually when there is disputes, frankly, we are on the side of not granting the clearance. >> former acting attorney general sally yates who trump
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fired. she weighs in, quote, "hard to know which is dangerous, jeopardizing our most sensitive national security information." have we lost our ability to be shocked? we have comments from trump called by this reporting. just in terms of the law here and the procedure, he does have the power, is that correct? >> that's right, we never had a president before who's been so cavalier about national security secrets. the president is the ultimate classification authority, he can decide what is or what is classified or who sees what information. the real challenge is presidents have always looked out for the national interests and try to prevent people who can be
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compromised by foreign governments or others from having access to that information. they're very concerned of leaks, they are very concerned of people taking onto themselves to put that information out there and they're also concerned of people who decision makes could be swayed by behalf of potential interest. >> if trump does have the right power to do. if it turns out that he lied about it in the public but it is not illegal in the court of law, what's the end game here? >> this is an issue of political norms. but, no presidents since watergate have dared to do that. most presidents don't comment on justice investigation. we can find no presidents over ruling the security establishment. our sources told us when we reported on this, they never seen their own work over ruled
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by a supervisor in the white house, generally the bureaucrats get to meet these. abby lowell says at the time that kushner got his clearance by the book. he's now saying, mr. lowell was not aware that the president had intervened. very specifically speaking for himself and not his client. >> that's an interesting twist. the possibility of this, we just talked about this with gergerry gerry connoly. they're saying hand these documents over. the prospect of the house committee ultimately being able to compel the white house to do this. what are those prospects? >> right, certainly there are always a give orr ta take betwe the white house or congress in terms of what types of documents
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they're willing to turn over. i would expect for it to be a hard fight because it goes to the core of the trump's family. i expect house oversight is going to have to go other routes to what they need and that may be looking at john kelly and getting it directly from him. >> micah, this reporting changes our understanding of what has been going on behind the scenes there. the reporting back last year when kushner had been okayed for security clearance in a lot of people's mind, put to rest of these questions. >> i think that was a little premature when you look at the financial and entanglement. and his deceptiveness about his contact. the idea that it could be put to rest without some blind trust was of stating the case. what we saw in the cohen
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testimonial this week is how the president gives instructions to people. he gives a mean look, he expects his orders to be followed. all right, thank you all for joining us. coming up, the growing witness list, congress wants answers from the man who knows the trump organization finances inside and out. plus, president trump said he did not hold kim jong-un responsible for the death of otto warmbier, a blistering statement from warmbier's parents who say now we must speak out. >> after a week of setback for president trump. one person does seem to be on his mind, michael cohen, his former fixer, just how much damaging is cohen's testimony this week. we got a lot to get to, stay with us. to, stay with us. great news, liberty mutual customizes-
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are there other people that we should be meeting with? >> so alan weisselberg is the chief financial officer of the trump organization. alan weisselberg made the decision. the signature, the bottom, i believe it is alan weisselberg. alan weisselberg. weisselberg, weisselberg. always alan weisselberg on the check. >> that was michael cohen repeatedly implicating alan weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the trump organization. we are at that public testimony this week, cohen identified
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weisselberg by name more than 20 times. he's now come under increase scrutiny by congress. he's a potential witness cannot be under stated. corey lewandowski says in his book, weisselberg knows of every dime that leaves the billing. weisselberg received partial immunity from prosecutors last summer for his testimony about hush money payments to silence two women before the election. according to cohen, it was weisselberg devise the plan and reimburse to cohen. >> are you telling us, mr. cohen, that the president directed transactions in conspiracy with alan weisselberg and his son, donald trump jr., as part of a civil criminal
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conspiracy of financial fraud, is that your testimony today? >> yes. >> nbc news learned the house intelligence committee intends to call weisselberg to the. nbc news is also reporting tonight, democrats of the house ways and means are crafting a request for trump tax returns. >> joining me now, natasha bertran. thank you for being with us. natas natasha, we mention there, weisselberg, 45 years around the trump empire. when you look at the circle of people around trump, usually in some way you hear from them in public. this is somebody who managed to stay close to trump and entirely behind the scene for more than four decades. talk about the role he plays in
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trump's world and what he would potentially be in position to shine a light on. >> it is interesting that we heard nothing from him. he's obsessively private. the trump organization is a small organization in terms of the amount of people that work there. it is kind of like a mom and pop shop in a way. he's able to have the ability to everything that the trump organization did in terms of its finances. when donald trump jr. said that russian assets and money makes up a disproportionate amount of the trump's asset. weisselberg is in the position to tell congress whether or not it is true. when we talk about millions and millions of dollars in cash by the trump organization, where does that come from? weisselberg is in position to tell congress where that money came from. how did he insert $200 million
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into his scottish golf course that is were failing. where did he get that money? all things that weisselberg could potentially be able to answer. that's what makes him so valuable here. this money came from a foreign entity. this money was used in an elicit manner. he could be part of these crimes is another question. >> caroline, there is always sorts of possibility here, things he may know or things he may be able to connect the dots on. the question is, would he be willing to answer any questions on those fronts? >> well, you know i think congress is certainly going to put the questions to him. it is hard to know how he's going to get out of, coming up before those committees and talking about what he he knows. i think the commit ttee has learned clearly that the trump organization is a criminal enterprise and to get to the
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bottom of it, they're going to need to follow the money and the one who knows where the money is is alan weisselberg. >> i guess my question is cohen was there voluntarily and going to prison in a few weeks. maybe in terms of his reputation, something was motivating him there to volunteer everything to say this week. if you are weisselberg, what would prevent him showing up and pleading the fifth? >> he's cooperating with the southern district of new york. he knows that he's got a lot of liability out there and it is very possible that he could see that it is in his longer term interests to speak with candor about what he's been involved in and the role that he plays these variety fraudulent enterprises and tax fraud and so forth. he's got a lot at stake. the prosecutors have a fair
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amount over him cooperating with the committee as well and maybe really in his interest. >> that's a question too is sort of a division of labor of questions. if congress is interested in these things and weisselberg is not interested in talking about them, is there a concern there if you are congress and is there an idea of granting some kobe brya kind of immunity. >> potentially, i would tell you as a former federal prosecutor, any time you can turn the cfo of an organization whether it is a small mom or pop which this organization had been described at or large publicly traded company, the cfo is a gold mind. it is the cfo that you want to get. here he's a potentially a valuable witness for both congress and prosecutors.
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there has to be a certainde-con. another witness is set to testify. felix sater, according to multiple report, sater pleaded guilty in the late '90s to stock fraud in connection of the russian mafia and trump worked with him on various projects. a 2013 deposition trump down played his association with sater, saying he barely knew him. >> if he were sitting in the room right now, i would not know what he looked like. >> despite trump's sworn deposition, cohen testified that the president did know sater well enough to give him an office in trump tower. >> is it true that president trump knew mobster felix sater
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in 2013 when he made that statement? yes. >> is it true that because mr. sater's relationship to the trump organization that he had an office in the trump tower? >> and on the 26th floor. >> the 26th floor is important why? >> because it is mr. trump's floor. >> based on those facts, is it true that president trump misled at best or worse lie under oath? >> yes. >> natasha, look, this question of sater and the trump tower deal. cohen pleaded guilty of lying to congress over the trump moscow project. sater, what light can he share on it? >> a lot. where to even begin with felix sater? sources have told me that he had this office on the 26th floor and he had a standing meeting with trump every week. when he was an adviser to the trump organization. i think he can probably speak to
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the extent that the negotiations actually went on right, it is just another corroborating witness to what michael cohen told the committee. michael cohen is not the most credible person in the world. when you ask sater to describe all the efforts he took to pursue this massive real estate deal in 2016 with his russian contact, he boasted of knowing about it and he boasted about knowing all sorts of high kremlin officials. i think he would be willing to go into details because he's not at the trump camp at this moment. his allegiance right now is whoever can help him to avoid trouble. cohen can then gain some stability. >> manafort's lawyer filed a precinct memo tonight. it appears to be an attack on robert mueller. special counsel attempt t
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to villify mr. manafort as a long life felon is beyond. gregg, what's manafort's team is up to here? >> well, this is an unusual approach i can tell you. having filed and read many such filings. look, the mueller report, the mueller filing, i should not say the report, we have not seen that yet. the sentencing memo was pretty harsh. it was no holes bar. i think for good reasons based on what we know about the case and manafort's conduct and about his life with cooperation. and so, i guess his team thought they had nothing to lose and perhaps something to gain by taking a swing at the special counsel. the judge will see through this and i expect a very, very tough
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sentencing for mr. manafort. >> all right, gregg brower and and natasha bertran. thank you for being with us. up next, what can he do? we'll take a look at not just him but the big question, one of the big questions of 2020, will a dark horse candidate emerge? stay with us. ic playing ] mm, uh, what do you do for fun? -not this. ♪ -oh, what am i into? mostly progressive's name your price tool. helps people find coverage options based on their budget. flo has it, i want it, it's a whole thing, and she's right there. -yeah, she's my ride. this date's lame. he has pics of you on his phone. -they're very tasteful.
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hi governor, what do you have to say about climate change? >>. >> i am running for president because i am the only candidate. our nation's number one priority. welcome back to "hardball," jay inslee, democratic governor of washington state. he says he's running for president. he joins a very long by this point list of democratic candidates and here is the thing. not only he's part of a long list of kacandidates but let me show you where he starts out. his morning consults, he's been doing a bunch of democratic
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polls here. you are used to see all these names, go through all the usual suspects, you got a nine-way tie of candidates of 1%, gillibrand and governor hickenlooper and below them, jay inslee at 0%, that puts him at 19th place. that looks to be where he's starting out. not well-known and a ton of competition. he's going to focus on climate change and make it as his calling guard. we'll see if it raises traction. whether it is jay inslee or anybody sitting here at 1% or 2% or 4%. the folks two start out at the back of the pack, the potential dark horsehorses, the ones that to go from last to first. we are used to see folks starting out with a real base of support ends up winning the nomination like hillary clinton. how often does it work the other way? there are a couple of other
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examples in modern times, we thought we'll take you through them. early on in the 1972, democratic race again. not everybody ended up running. primaries worked differently back then. george mcgovern ended up being the nominee. he did not so well in the general election. 76, here is a famous example, one of the first polls you saw from gallup and at the bottom you saw jimmy carter. he went from worst to first. he won the presidency. that's the most famous example that i think of a dark horse will emerge in '88. what really helped him, dukakis,
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he eventually won the nomination. they thought george bush senior was in visible but turns out he was not. >> on the republicans side, last time around our poll, on the eve of donald trump's campaign announcement, he was at 1% in our poll and he over came this field and won the presidency and maybe one of the reasons so many democrats like jay inslee are looking at the democratic field right now saying why not me. i may start back there but if trump can get to the top, maybe i will too. up next, a backlash over the remarks of otto warmbier, it was a tough week for president trump, when the dust settles, can we expect anything will change politically. it is coming up next. change politically it is coming up next you still stressed about buying our first house, sweetie?
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there had been many weeks of the trump presidency. this one has been particularly rough for the president, the house terminate his national emergency at the southern border that sets the stage for what could be similar to the first presidential veto, also. michael cohen accused trump of multiple crimes opening the possibility of new congressional investigations and trump's summit with north korea, kim jong-un, went nowhere. he had to walk away saying north koreans asking for the lifting of all sanctions. kim wants economic sanctions removed but did not ask for removal of all sanctions. the president drew criticism for
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defending the dictator over the death of otto warmbier and the president takes kim at his words that he did not know warmbier in detention. warmbier's parents responded, this quote, we have been respectful during this summit process but now we need to speak out. kim is responsible for the death of our son, they're responsible for unimaginable cruelty and in humanity, no excuses or lavish praise can change that. >> thank you. >> president trump gave a clear indication of what part of his very bad week gotten under his skin the most, we'll tell you what that is straight ahead. he what that is straight ahead. their 14 different hotel brands, so i get the right hotel for every member of my family. like a doubletree for my cousins who love their warm chocolate chip cookies. a homewood suites for my uncle who likes a long stay. a hampton for my sister and her kids.
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♪ ♪ your grace. your majesty.
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your king. a legacy of leaders, speeders and serpent feeders. the alfa romeo giulia, stelvio and c37. as far as cohen is concerned, he's convicted, he's a liar and defrauded at a high level. he has a lot of problems. it is interesting, he lies so much, i watched some of it. he said no collusion, sorry, he lied so many things, he might as well lie about that one, too. he said no collusion and everybody said no collusion. welcome back to "hardball," that was president trump just before he left vietnam reacting to
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michael cohen's testimony to congress. the president came back empty handed from kim jong-un. he's raging about his former lawyer's testimony, firing off a series of tweets. one tweet he wrote this, michael cohen's manuscript shows he committed perjury on a scale not seen before. joining by our democratic strategist and david french. thank you both of you for joining me. sort of the end of the week here, we are trying to make sense of everything we saw. i want to go over the politics of the political reality that emerges this week. aisha, let me start with you of the question of democrats in congress. politically, did they emerge from this week with enough to go forward with impeachment if that's what they are looking to do? >> yeah, what cohen did was he
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showed up with receipts for all the antidotes that we know. he showed up with evidence and a trail that leads us to ask more questions. surely the democrats want to say we'll start impeachment proceedings then we could. it is ultimately to open up a formal investigation to be able to ask questions and to be able to get to the hard of the things that donald trump is hiding and what i believe this hearing did with cohen is not only he produce some initial evidence, if you listen to the democrats line of questioning, they were able to pull out names like alan weisselberg and others and start to ask questions of trump's tax returns that teed up the opportunity for them to follow up on, some of the conversations that was started at this hearing. whether they politically feel like they are in a place to formally call it impeachment
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proceedings and start that pr process. >> i am curious of what do you think from a republican standpoint. the folks on that committee, they were interested in attacking the guy who was going after trump. what do republicans take away in this week in terms of how they view this president and the sense of par real around him. >> republicans are more afraid of the southern district of new york than they are of congressional democrats. if congressional democrats move on impeachment of evidence, again, we have not had the mueller report yet and the full completion of the southern district investigation. if democrats move on impeachment right now at this point, it would be an over reach. at a time where the president is on his heels quite frankly. if you talk to republicans right now, they are far more concerned of what's coming out of
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manhattan and that southern district or perhaps even than they are concerned of the mueller report itself. >> that's an interesting question, too. aisha, cohen gavetrump's charac and the question of trump's, you know, sort of moral fitness for the office, if you want to call it that. i do wonder, though, in terms of fueling an impeachment drive, the fact that he ultimately says, look, i have no evidence of collusion. he did not order me to lie. i have no proof that he ordered me to lie. and he also gave this answer where he said, i've never been in prague in my life. and the significance is there is all of this talk about this dossier, that's a employee to the dossier, it seems, if that aspect is true. did that deprive democrats of some of the fuel they would need for an impeachment push? >> so here's the thing that we've been focused on this very singular idea that russian collusion is the only thing that donald trump is doing wrong. and the truth is, is that what impeachment proceedings would
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allow to happen, and again, i'm saying that the democrats could actually start to investigate this without a formal impeachment, but we need to understand trump's finances. we need to know if he's enriching himself and using this office for the benefit of him and his family as opposed to the benefit of the people of the united states. we also need to understand, if he is putting us in harm's way, if he is even fit to do this job. there are a lot of questions that come up that we need to understand about this trump administration and how it is or isn't in the best benefit of the united states, that go beyond, for sure, just russia. and so i think that that's what we're starting to get to this with character, this character conversation. and the financial, the financial transactions and the shadiness. he's literally being shown to act like a mobster in the way that he conducts himself with the people that he works with. and so we want to be able to get into that. and michael cohen brought some receipts to start to take us there a little bit. and so now i think it's really important for the american people to be able to understand
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who this is in the white house, is he fit to do this job? and is he actually working in our best interests? and that's not simply just that singular collusion? >> the chairman of the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler told the u.s. times, quote, yes, we have unambiguous evidence that the president has committed a crime at this point, i think. do we have unambiguous evidence that he has done impeachable offenses? we've got a ways to go yet. another judiciary committee democrat, rhode island's david cicilline says democrats are proceeding cautiously for good reason, but also said this. >> if you're asking me today if it seems more likely that the president could be removed from office based on what we know, is it more likely today than it was on tuesday, i think the answer to that is yes. >> david french, let me ask you about -- i think what nadler might be alluding to there is this issue of the campaign finance violation. this idea that, hey, a felony was committed to conceal a politically damaging extramarital affair. now, nadler was there in '98 when clinton got impeached by
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republicans by committing a felony to conceal a politically embarrassing extramarital affair. now, would that be a reversal if you took a different position now. but what about republicans who 20 years ago said, that is grounds for impeachment? will they be there saying the same thing? >> you will see a complete flip-flop on both sides if there's an impeachment proceeding that moves forward on these campaign finance violations. and i think that the very fact of that dramatic flip-flop, the very fact that republicans would say, wait a minute, wasn't this litigated in '98 and these kinds of sexual indiscretions, even if accompanied by federal crimes or not sufficient for impeachment? i mean, you're going to see the waters being muddied with people who were a "no" on clinton being a "yes" on trump. people who were a "yes" on clinton being a "no" on trump. the only thing we would be sure of would be that hypocrisy would abound. and i think that's why you've
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seen some of the democratic leadership exercise a note of caution. they've put their foot on the breaks, and i think that's smart, because there's a presidential election just next year. >> all right. that's right. a year and a half away. we just talked about the democratic field growing even more today. david french, aisha moodie-mills, thank you both for joining us. and up next, how much will memories of 2016 impact bernie sanders in 2020? you're watching "hardball." l. ♪ limu emu and doug. hmm. exactly. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.
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could i just interject really quickly, though? we're hearing about a lot of democratic candidates who are meeting with hillary clinton for advice, though, people like amy klobuchar. do you think you'll do the same? >> i suspect not. hillary has not called me. look, we have differences. hillary has played a very important role in modern american politics. >> but you're not interested in any advice from her? >> i think not. >> that caught some attention earlier today, bernie sanders not interested in sitting down with the woman who bested him in the 2016 primaries. and as he said there, it's not like he's heard from her, either. so the frostiness may be mutual. make no mistake, there is no unresolved tension from 2016 between sanders, clinton, and their most loyal supporters. sander e sander's comments today come in the wake of this story a few days ago that featured some clinton campaign staffers suggesting he had acted like a prima donna in the general election three years ago, that
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he had demanded private flights to go campaign against clinton. said one staffer, while i'm not shocked that thousands of volunteers braved the heat and cold to knock on doors until their fingers bled in a desperate effort to stop donald trump, his royal majesty king bernie sanders would only deign to leave his plush d.c. office or his brand-new second home on the lake if he was flown around on a cushy jet like a billionaire master of the universe. sanders, who is known for flying coach frequently, disputed the claims. said he only flew private in 2016 when there was no other option. his former campaign spokesman accused clinton and her loyalists of holding a grudge. quote, you can see why she's one of the most disliked politicians in america. she's not nice. her people are not nice. at the root of this, there are those from the clinton camp who blame sanders, at least in part, for her defeat to donald trump. they say he stayed in the democratic race too long, that it got too nasty, that he did little to heal the wounds that
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had opened up. sanders and his allies, obviously, they feel differently about it. they point to the 17 events that he did for hillary in the final week of that campaign, for instance. now, the question is whether this will cost sanders in the democratic race this time around. how deep do the sentiments of clinton loyalists go with democratic voters. polling now suggests, it may not be that deep. sanders' favorable rating with democrats, 75%, to 15% unfavorable. those numbers aren't very different from joe biden's. the real question may be influence, though. the clinton vets, the activists, the folks who do hold a grudge from '16, will they raise their voices loudly to try to stop him? and if they do, will democratic voters listen to them? that's "hardball" for now. chris will be back here monday night, 7:00 eastern. tonight on "all in" -- >> as far as cohen is concerned, he's convicted, he's a liar. >> lying about a liar's lying more a liar continues. >> he said to me, at least a
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dozen times, that he made the decision on the