tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 6, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
fed? >> say the shucky ducky thing again. that was good. >> that's on chuck todd now. my thanks to the panel. i'll see you back here monday for deadline white house at 4:00 p.m. trump's darkest secret. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president trump put aside killing obamacare and his threat to shut down the border. he has given up altogether his birtherism theory about president obama being born abroad, but one thing he has never given up on in "s" his obsession to hide his tax returns from it is american public. now democratic congressman rs to force the irs to turn the returns over.
neal is setting a 1924 law that states upon written request, the secretary of the treasury shall furnish such committee with any return with any information. while the law could not be more clear, the president is talking as if it doesn't apply to him. big surprise. here's trump earlier today. >> i'm under audit, but that's up to whoever it is. from what i understand, the law is 100% on my side. >> hours after those remarks, the president's lawyers made it clear that trump will fight to keep his tax returns secret from agreements in a detailed four-page letter to the treasury department, trump's lawyers wrote the chairman neil cannot legally request and the irs cannot divulge the information. the ways and means has no legitimate committee purpose for requesting the president's tax returns and it's all about just scoring political points against the president. trump's attorneys are urging the treasury department to get a
legal opinion from the department of justice before allowing is irs to turn over their president's returns. it comes after he suggested that he intends for the attorney general as if you were his attorney general to get involved. >> with the irs, not to disclose to the house ways and means committee your runs the? >> you will speak to my lawyers and the attorney general. >> will you direct the irs to do that? he will speak to my lawyers and the attorney general. >> he does not like this issue. he wants to hold those secret. meanwhile, other indications in anticipation of the request, he has already taken other steps to protect himself. we'll get to that as well. but first i'm joined by congresswoman judy chu of california, a democratic who sits on the house ways and means committee. of bloomberg opinion and joy reid, host of "a.m. joy," and david cornyn. thank you for joining us.
what do you make of the president out saying it's illegitimate for the government to carry out the law? that sounds to be a contradiction in temples. >> the law is totally unambiguous. it says that, upon request, the irs shall furnish those tax returns. it doesn't say may furnish. it says shall furnish. in fact, in every 6103 request that has been made, those returns have been provided. never has a return been denied. this is over the nearly 100 years of the existence of this law. so if the president doesn't provide it, it would break precedent and it would actually break the law. >> tim, it seems to me that this president will take all kinds of heat for not disclosing his tax returns. you will have people imagine he is covering up crimes or that
he's not as rich as he said or he doesn't pay taxes. kinds conclusions that reasonable people, not just people on the left, will think he is hiding. why is he willing to pay that price? is it so horrible that he will do anything to keep the secret? >> chris, donald trump has never cared what reasonable people thought. that's not going to start happening with his tax returns. when he is putting out that he is under audit and that's the reason he can't turn it over, that's a complete red herring. richard next to of all people, richard nixon turned his taxes over while he was being audited. trump said he was being audited for 12 years and no one in the irs believes that. the irs in the past has come out and said it would be unusual for someone to be audited a few years in a row, much less 12. and then i think the other issue here of him punting this over to doj and saying that the olc has a role in determining this shows how much
he blurs the lines around separation of powers. congress is exercising its legitimate oversight powers when the requesting of the president of the united states be transparent and straightforward about potential financial conflicts he or she may have in administering their duties in the executive branch. and these tax returns speak to those things. i think the reason he doesn't want them to come out is because he would see possible funding or investment from overseas that gets into things like influence from russia or the gulf region or china. things he doesn't want talked about. it would reveal how robust his business really is. another thing he doesn't want to talk about. i think he'll do anything he has to avoid this, but he's on shaky legal ground to say congress doesn't have a right to get the documents. >> trump's attorneys called congressman neal of the ways and means harassment. the law he is following was
written in part to give congress the ability to scrutinize the tax returns of executive branch officials to investigate conflicts of interest or potential improprieties because of the tea pod dome scandal. of the early 1920s. joy reid, as any student of history knows, this is the low point of credibility. warren harding died from it. the horrible thing is people using their influence at the department of interior to make money. the worst corruption is all about money. trump is now saying this exactl relates to him, it seems to me. >> the same way he treated the emoluments clause. michael cohen's theory that he never intended to be president is that donald trump doesn't feel that he has to follow any of the traditions that any prior president has to prove that they are not using the white house to make money. they are not making money off the office. he doesn't care what he has to do to stop people from finding
out about his businesses. donald trump and tim o'brien know this is better than i, donald trump has always operated with the help of con signature lee ariarys. people who help shield him from consequences. he believes he seems to openly believe that everyone in the executive branch is supposed to do the same thing. why can't he have an attorney general who will protect him and he wanted to fast track getting the irs counsel in and saying that's more important than getting william barr in place. that he wants all these people in place who have either written op-ed or otherwise demonstrated that they believe he doesn't have to follow the rules. >> the law here is clear. i don't know how many laws or pages of legal arguments he makes, he has a problem and he knows it. >> i think at some point in the trump years, we are heading to a true constitutional clash.
we keep saying there is a crisis and there have been flash points ready, by that i mean there's going to be a point in time he will be told turned law you must do this and he's not going to do it. >> is this impeachable if he ignores the law? i'm going to tell the irs not to release it? >> that's committing a crime. >> this will end up probably in the courts and may even go up to the supreme court before a guy named brett kavanaugh and his comrades there. there is no way he will let this happen. he will order steve mnuchin if he has to say no. and they will take this cocourt. bill barr has shown -- >> our country will be determined by roberts and and hish and maybe gorsuch. administration have to follow a very clear law or not, that's going to end up being a
tremendous fight. there may be others coming down the pike too here. >> new reporting suggests that the president may have already taken steps to shield himself as joy just suggested. "the new york times" revealed earlier this year trump asked senator mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate to prioritize a confirmation vote to be the chief counsel of the irs. chief counsel of the irs. think about that why he cared so much about it. most curious was the urgency of trump's ask. -- request. trump indicated it was a higher priority than voting on william barr as attorney general. as the story notes, trump's request raised questions about whether the president had other motivations and so why was the president so determined to get this guy confirmed as the top lawyer inside the irs? the democrats made no secret of their plan to obtain his tax returns, and as "the washington post" points out, the timing is very difficult to dismiss as a coincidence. michael desmond was confirmed
for the job. for the job in late february as a tax attorney who briefly advised trump's company before he took office. as the "new york times" points out, he worked with sherry dylan who is currently a tax lawyer for the trump organization and best known for addressing potential conflicts of interest just before trump took office. dylan backed the claim that he is under audit saying his tax returns have been under continuous examination since 2002 by the irs. tim o'brien, it looks like he put more preparation to hiding his tax returns than any summit meeting with any world leader. this seems to me far more important to him, hiding his papers. >> remember when he rolled down the escalator and announced that he was running for president? the first thing he spoke about was not policy or how he wanted to serve the american people. the first thing he talked about and the thing at the top was that he was worth $10 billion.
there are two things to take note of with that. he is lying. he is nowhere close to being worth $10 billion. the second thing is he defines himself by pretending he is worth $10 billion and getting his tax returns out would give a lie to all that posturing he has been doing for decades around those sorts of numbers. and then again, it gets to what it would expose about his financial relationships at home and abroad. there are many weaknesses donald trump has, but one of his core strengths is he has a reptilian ability to survive and he knows when things are a threat to him and he actually thinks ahead of those things in the ways he doesn't think about other things. he was asked about it repeatedly during the campaign and repeatedly said in the early days of the campaign, of course i'll make them public, of course i'll make them public. as it wore on, he dreamed up an
excuse of being under audit and therefore, been unable to release them. >> congresswoman, where do you see this fight? if you are right with the law and he has a lot of lawyers, he is not right with the law. even though he's put people looking out for him, where does this thing end up? how many months does it take to get it to the supreme court to win your case? >> we are going to continue to pursue this. actually they are supposed to provide the returns on april 10th. we are going to send another letter asking for them. this may go to a subpoena eventually and may go to court. but we do know that we stand on solid ground. certainly we deserve those returns. every president for the last four decades have revealed their returns voluntarily. he is the only one that has not.
when we did a 6103 request of richard nixon, gerald ford and nelson rockefeller, they provided their returns. so the basis for providing them is very, very clear, and we feel that we will stand on solid ground in court. >> is this impeachable if he said no way, josé, i'm not going to do it. i'm not releasing my tax returns. i'm telling my people not to do it, my treasury secretary, my irs chief counsel said no. i say no to you guys. is this impeachable? >> first things first. we want to see what is in those returns. but certainly i would have to say we he doesn't provide his returns. and that is very serious. that is not what the president of the united states should be doing, the most powerful man in this country.
the man who has the sole ability to sign federal bills into law and has power over an entire branch of government. that is not what he should be doing. so we will look at it, but first things first. we have to first establish whether he has provided us the returns or not. >> thank you so much, congresswoman. i want to go to joy for the last question. the politics of this. do you think on the democratic side in the u.s. house of representatives, which is a new congress, a lot of young people, a lot of progressives. do you think they will stand for this or if he thumbs his nose at all those people, will they fight now more -- with greater toughness? for an impeachment move? >> the reality is, i think anyone who cares about the constitution should hope they do. donald trump has repeatedly asked the question and everything he does, who is going to stop me? he doesn't respect the emoluments clause and constitutional limitations. on the presidency of the united states. he thinks this is a city council that he can buy off and stack the executive branch with
cronies and people willing to protect trump first to do his bidding first. he tainted the justice department this way and tainted every department from interior on out, education, everything is all about protecting him and him alone. that's not the way american democracy was meant to function. we don't have a king. but donald trump is testing the proposition that no one is going to stop him. and the democrats are the only game in town where that is concerned. the house of representatives is the only constitutional entity that can put a stop to this's president's of the constitution. the republicans are not going do it. they made it clear they will do nothing and let him do whatever he wants. he can operate as freely as he wants as long as he gives them the courts. he can have everything else. so i think anyone who cares about democracy, put party aside, if you put a limited presidency that is not a
monarchy, i think the american people better hope somebody stops him. >> you can't put it better than that. well said. judy chu, tim o'brien and joy and david corn are sticking with us. coming up, michael cohen makes a last-ditch effort to delay or even reduce his prison sentence of three years saying he has 14 million documents that could provideats with more dirt trump. plus, the president's golf game and what it reveals about him. >> i just wanted to say, look at that. those hands can hit a golf ball 285 yards. right? those are good strong -- >> i was the best golfer of all the rich people. to be exact. >> i will talk to the author of a new book, commander in cheat. he calls trump a compulsive cheater on the golf course. much more ahead. stick with us. stick with us. ♪ limu emu & doug
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i have lied, but i am not a liar. i have done bad things, but i am not a bad man. i have fixed things, but i am no longer your fixer. >> welcome back to "hardball." in just 30 days, president trump's lawyer and fixer, michael cohen is set to begin a three-year is prison sentence for a series of crimes including violating campaign finance laws and lying to the congress. now cohen is making a last-ditch effort to try and postponement or shorten his three-year sentence. cohen's legal team sent a letter to the chair of key house committees saying cohen regained access to millions of files seized by federal agents including several that have significant value to the committees. cohen's lawyers argue that he had more time to sift through those files that he could provide more dirt on his former boss to the committees. we are learning what they revealed to the special counsel and the house intelligence
committee in his nonpublic testimony. according to his lawyers, cohen provided evidence that president trump was involved in or at least knew about a criminal conspiracy to collude with russia during the election. participated in obstruction of justice including covering up the hush money payments to stormy daniels. and subborned perjury by making false statements about the trump tower moscow deal. when president trump was asked about what cohen could still share -- [ inaudible question ] >> no, they have already got it. it's old news. he lied numerous times in his last testimony. they've had that for many months. >> joining me is jill wine banks former assistant watergate prosecutor, and back with me, joy reid and david corn. a lot of what i read about what cohen's lawyer said he had to use against the president, if you will. why wasn't that available to mr. mueller and his team?
>> it probably was available to mr. mueller and it was before it was taken from mr. cohen available to mr. cohen, and it could be available to him again while he's in prison. either in one of two ways. one, prisons do allow computers and my understanding is this was his hard drive that has been returned to him. so he can use it while he's in prison. he does not have to be outside of jail for that. or he can be housed very near to congress if congress wants to talk to him or any prosecutor wants to talk to him. he still can serve his sentence while cooperating. >> if you are a prosecutor and had access to mr. cohen and with him all his stuff is 14 million files which is almost incredible to think about. i don't know how many i've got, but that's a lot. 14 million. would you think he would know where the bodies are buried in a way that mueller may not have known where to go?
>> yes, it is very likely you need a guide through that many files, and it would be helpful to have his cooperation. and since he wants to reduce his sentence, it really behooves him to act in his own best interest by giving whatever he can possibly think of. but this happened obviously during watergate, many of our witnesses were serving jail time while they were being prepared for trial. we brought them in daily from a nearby facility. many of them were from fort hal bird. and they cooperated with us fully. this is in the days before computers so they had documents. my understanding is he does have boxes and boxes of documents. that might be easier for him to review and refresh his recollection which is what witnesses always do. it's easy for him to refresh his recollection by looking at the computer or actual documents.
>> let me ask you. david, i will put my cards on the table. i looked at what we are getting with the mueller investigation. we're finding out there was more alarming information about perhaps obstruction of justice or all kinds of evidence that there was collusion.ht balanced there, finally balanced about whether he called the equivalent of prosecution with the president. it would seem to me if you have 14 million files, that could tip it the other way. in both cases, collusion and obstruction. don't we want more information? >> the prosecutors had this information and took it and gave it back. that's why he is getting access to it now. it was about a year ago he was raided, right? so they've gone through it the way they can. i agree with jill. there's probably a way he can go through that and maybe find some things that would re-trigger a memory.
>> they're going to give him all this in prison? >> it depends on what the prosecutors want. if they think more is there. >> who are the prosecutors now? >> we're talk about the southern district of new york and others picking up the bits and pieces of mueller's investigation. a lot of this is probably not related to russia, but the 10 years he spent working for trump. remember, we missed testimony this past week. felix sater was supposed to testify publicly. what's his story? it's about trump's business deal in russia while he was running for president. who was the point man with that? that was michael cohen. there is more to come out there and hopefully michael cohen can contribute to that story after sater testifies, but i think there is a way for him to do that and prove the sentence should be reduced even if he goes to jail. >> joy, the president in his walk by he does with the press, he deigns to answer questions on the south lawn. he said it's old news.
that's one of the biggest tropes in politics. been there, done that. forget about it. or this one. on my shoulder. but the fact is we know trump and often the path to his truth is the opposite of what he says. >> yeah. >> if cohen has been working with the guy, tom hagin, all these years, he knows all the skunky stuff, he's done. he knows it all. every time he heard the word russia, he's got it. even if prison, he has nothing else to do except dig for dirt to get him out sooner. i'd be afraid of him. >> donald trump should be. he was the person closest to him and knew most. given the fact that we have seen so many people caught up in this scandal we can all call russia gate give such light sentences. 14 days here and 12 here. george papadopoulos served 11 days. manafort got a good deal for all that he did to defraud the united states.
manafort to me got a good deal for all he did to defraud the united states. so what would be the harm in letting this guy help the american people understand more about what the president of the united states was up to? if there was dirt. i would say congress is the only one who can do it now because william barr stands between us and robert mueller. so congress is the only entity who can do it. put him back in front of congress and let him tell what he knows. >> jill, i had this great scenario like a prison movie where he's sitting in jail, wherever it is, someplace reasonably posh. and the other guys are lifting their barbells. and he's sitting there on his computer figuring out how to screw the president of the united states. i think it would make him a popular guy in the jailhouse. tell me how that would work. would he be able to get the others to help him with the paperwork? really. >> the jail house lawyers could help him, i'm sure. people would be volunteering, i'll bet.
but he certainly can do it from jail. they allow computers. he can use his computer and find what he can be refreshed with. i think he probably has a lot more to give and a lot of it will be of value to the southern district, which is the one place that hasn't been as sold on his cooperation. mueller thought he cooperated fully. so if he can help the southern district make cases based on real estate fraud or whatever else he knows about that happened in their jurisdiction, that might help him get his sentence reduced. when you look at his sentence compared to the others, it is a stiff sentence. compared to them. but i'm sure that the judges who made these judgments used the guidelines and feel that they have fairly sentenced him. so unless he gets cooperation from the southern district recommending that he be lightened, he got that from mueller.
so we'll have to wait and see whether this letter intended to get him a lighter sentence and to delay his starting his sentence is effective or not. >> thank you so much, jill wine-banks, joy reid, and david corn. he can put together quite a team. up next, joe biden and donald trump are already kpangds jabs and we haven't even running the bell for the first round. after this break, biden against trump.
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i just want you to know, i had permission to hug lonnie. [ laughter ] >> you guys can sit on the edge. i don't want you to have to stand. by the way, he gave me permission to touch him. [ laughter ] >> welcome back to "hardball." that was former vice president, joe biden today speak publicly for the first time since a number of women alleged he made physical contact they felt was inappropriate. biden spoke with reporters after addressing a conference of electrical workers. >> if i made anyone feel uncomfortable, i feel badly. that was never my intention. ever. >> are you sorry for the way you -- [ inaudible ] >> i'm sorry i didn't understand more. intentionally to a man or a woman.
>> is this whole episode of the past week, is this going to change how you campaign? >> i think it's going have to change how i campaign. >> biden acknowledged he is running for president, but not yet a candidate. but that's not stopping president trump from taking swipes at his would-be opponent. >> do you think joe biden -- >> no, i don't see him as a threat. i don't see him as a threat. i think he is only a threat to himself. >> the president's publicly confident about his chances versus biden, if norkts in january reported the president was fixated on biden who mr. trump regards as the most dangerous potential opponent. trump's concerns seemed evident. shortly after biden finished his remarks. the electrical workers and the president tweeted i employed thousands of electrical workers, they will be voting for me. i bought them, i own them.
shannon petty piece and mike. ma'am, memory thank you, both. mike, you are the expert. you know, i don't know. to me he's obviously who he is. he is overdoing things with personal space. i haven't noticed it, but all in the pictures, i've seen it in in the television shots. he does it. >> he does it. he said i get it. i understand i have to live in my space. on stage, he can't help it. this is who he is. >> sorry he doing it to make it lighter. hugging that kid around his neck. >> you can hear the advice from staff. his instinct is to do one thing and he tries to make light of it. i was there. he had to come out and apologize. not really. joe biden isn't in the mood to apology, but he knew he had to address it. i can tell you, other campaigns were jumping on this. they thought maybe he had moved beyond it and he brings it up
himself. >> do you think the people, is anybody behind pushing this story. people would delight in it. people delight in the zero sum game of politics. is anybody known to be pushing >> on the trump world universe where i sort of exist, they are kind of delighted to see this and they feel like it is the democrats starting to cannibalize themselves which is what they have been waiting for and hoping for. there is a bit of glee among them to see the me too movement which they felt almost derailed kavanaugh coming back to bite the democrats is the way they view it. their strategy and what they have been advising the president to do is sit back, let the democrats fight amongst themselves and look presidential and when you get an opponent, you can go after them. the president hasn't done that. but that's sort of the strategy they've been hoping for. >> is trump more afraid of biden than he is bernie at the other end? >> i think he is obsessed with his firewall, the states that he
flipped from blue to red. biden is the most likely to flip them. what's always going to be interesting about covering this primary is the president is going to be color commentator. he can't help himself. but joe biden is the candidate he sees as the biggest threat. >> he can't call him a socialist and go after him about abortion. the usually targets don't work with joe. he can't call him an elitist. >> i agree. when you talk to people in trump world, their biggest concerns are michigan, wisconsin and ohio. those purple states. when they look at the head-to-head polling between trump and the democrats, biden is the only one within the margin of beating them. if they hold on to everything from last time, they can only lose michigan and pennsylvania. they feel like wisconsin is almost lost and michigan and pennsylvania is what they have to hold on to. >> the former vice president and president trump traded jabs on
twitter yesterday. the president tweeted a video mocking biden's statement promising to be more mindful of permanent space writing welcome back, joe. biden responded i see that you are on the job and presidential as always. that was sarcastic. >> there was debate on his team about whether to respond. do you take the high road and move beyond it? what was interesting is he was trying to calibrate it. they thought trump did him a huge favor. here is the party able to rallyaround biden against trump. >> unintended consequences. i have been trying it out in my head today. this has been three days, every day i read all the papers, three columns a day. it was strong arrangements, some were nuanced, but it seems this gives biden a chance to be a fighter. one thing we know about the democratic progressives, whatever they think of moderates, they're not big on moderates, but they want a fighter. if biden can spend these days
showing he's a fighter and he's not going to roll they might like that. >> it's interesting. is he going to take the trumpian approach to this controversy and in the "access hollywood" tape, trump's advisers tried to say to apologize and he made an awkward video and he let go. and said i have to do what i'm going to do. biden on that stage today could have let it go, tried to drop the subject, let's get everyone to stop talking about it, which is what lava people advised him to do. instead he brought it back up and leaned into it and made a joke about it and went out and didn't really apologize. he didn't bow down and apologize over and over again. >> it's the old role of politics. never explain or complain. your friends don't need it and enemies won't buy it. think about that one. shannon pettypiece, trump didn't invent this. the lengths donald trump will go to win a golf game. what he describes as trump's habitual cheating and what may
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welcome back to "hardball." during the 2016 parking lot campaign, donald trump frequently boasted about his golf game. let's watch. >> i've been a gold golfer over the years. >> i think i deal with pressure well. i won many club championships. >> does trump know how to close? >> i hit a ball 280 yards. stand up. am i club champion? do i hit the ball good? do i hit it long? is trump strong? huh? >> what is your response to -- [ inaudible ] -- that you cheat during golf? >> that's absolutely false. i win at golf. i win at golf. that i can tell you. >> as president trump uses golf to attack his opponents in a
speech to house republicans, he said that house intel chairman adam schiff would be a weak off the tee golfer who could only drive the ball 50 yards and compared the fed chairman to a bad putter. in his new book, "commander in cheat: how golf explains trump," rick writes that donald trump doesn't just cheat at golf, he throws it, boots it, and moves it. he lies about his lies. he note that is the way trump is how he does a presidency, which is to operate his rules are for other people. a rich history of trump's career ranging in cheating during the game to lying about his scores to convincing people he won club championships. but did he actually win championships? that's up next. you can't miss this on "hardball." "hardball. that's not a bug, that's not a bug! (burke) hit and drone. seen it, covered it.
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so, i'm partnering with cigna to remind you that your emotional and physical health are more connected than you think. go in for your annual check-up. and be open with your doctor about anything you feel. physically, and emotionally. body and mind. cigna. together, all the way. that's better. welcome back to "hardball." trump likes to boast about how great he is at golf, saying he won 18 championships. that's like an nfl quarterback saying he won 18 super bowls. it's a lie. it's so over the top crazy town it loses all credibility among all golfers. the author takes a look at those championships.
he compares it to bowling with bumpers. two were at clubs that were not open yet. that's tricky. one was not the right number of holes and an executive said trump wouldn't have won the 2004 championships because he never won any of the eight years i worked there. which leaves two at trump international where riley said he never saw a signed scorecard. he notes the final score on the 18 club championships is lies 16, incompletes, two. confirms, 0. joined by the acclaimed sports journalist, rick reilly, author of "commander in cheat: how golf explains trump." >> how about the won he won in philadelphia at bed minster that is 87 miles away. he calls up and says who won the championship today and i go, joe shot a 75. well, i shot a 72 up here. make me the champion. >> he shot par. >> he said he shot 72. they had to take joe's name off and put his.
>> everybody watching this show is familiar with this guy's slip of truth or whatever you call it. with his slip of truth. but let me ask crow about doing it in your face. you're playing with him, and you're keeping an honest scorecard, and he's not. you know he's not keeping the score. >> he's open about it. we were having a $10 bet total give me a 4. >> you're not even on the green but you've got to give -- >> and can't chip to save his life. dude, i've seen him put around bunkers, that's how bad he
chips. i played with clinton as president. his first shot was i'm playing that one but then he'd hit six, six more to practice. >> but he wasn't as dishonest as trump. >> that's illegal but not dishonest. but trump is so bad, he'll kick your ball into the bunker if you're not watching. >> didn't you write in your book he'd take somebody else's ball if he wanted it? >> yeah, he's done that. what did people say, well he cheated tiger woods. tiger woods, dustin johnson against him and faxton. >> the essence of golf is character because you can so easily cheat that you have to be honest or it doesn't make any sense. >> of course. we call our own penalties. you're 200 yards over there, i've got to trust. >> it's all about trust. meanwhile president trump has fixated how often obama played golf while he was president. let's watch. >> we have a president who doesn't fight. he goes out and plays golf all
the time. he plays more golf tan the guys on the pga tour play. i'm not going to be playing much golf. i like to play golf. you know, i'm a good golfer, believe it or not. i should play obama for the presidency. >> i like beer. anyway, donald trump has spent 177 days on his golf property since becoming president. he tells the working people out there i'm not going to be some elitist playing golf all day. >> and by the way last here he played 66 times. do you know how many times he posted his score which you're supposed to do to keep it fair? once. >> what is his handicap? >> 2.8. do you what jack nicholas' handicap is, 2.5. >> so in other words he plays golf in the mid-70s. >> but he doesn't. >> but he says he does. >> but it's all baloney. if he's a 2.8, queen elizabeth is a pole-vaulter.
it's not possible. >> this is if you want to have fun and get to bad at night because it's just totally -- it's not exactly harmless. >> it gets worse. you know he keeps eight goats on one of his courses you know why? in a pen, gets an $80,000 farm tax break. >> i have a club in virginia. do you all know my club? it's the best there is is in the tri-state. our golf courses are world class. louden county on the potomac river, one of the most beautiful clubs you've ever seen, and one of the best golf courses in anywhere world. i own just about the greatest clubs in the world. >> you wrote in your book he overvalued those properties by millions of dollars. every course is worth $25 million. >> he said they're all worth $50
million at the same time he was suing the tax lords for valuing them over $2 million. tonight he's at trump los angeles and that's the course he said is better than pebble. and if you walk into trump los angeles wearing a pebbles shirt -- >> what does it teach about life? >> golf is like bicycle shorts. it reveals a lot about a guy, and this reveals everything about him. >> thank you, rick. great writing again and great book. this is the weekend. this is your fun for the weekend, like trump or not. well, if you really don't like trump, this is your perfect book. what real sportms manship looks like, you're watching "hardball." s manship looks like, you're watching "hardball. great news, liberty mutual customizes...
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i want to say something about a team that didn't make it to this weekend. the university of north carolina basketball team and what they showed us a week ago tonight. i'd gone home last friday to watch the game and i caught the incredible shooting by auburn. did they really hit 17 three pointers? how did they beat that, and then came what i want to talk about tonight which is not about the final score which is all auburn, but a scene of sportsmanship that grabbed me the moment it happened and stuck with me and probably always will. when he twisted his leg going down headed to the basket. you could tell it was really a bad injury. but even faster to realize it was north carolina player branden robinson, number four there who reached down to help him up. in an act of real sportsmanship the carolina team helped him off the floor. but i wanted to recall the team that did want make it tomorrow but will be remembered for what it showed us.
so let's hear it for them. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i'm under audit but that's up to whoever it is. from what i understand the law has been 100% on my side. >> trump pulling out all the stops to block house democrats from seeing his tax returns. >> i fight like hell to pay as little as possible. can i say that? i'm not a politician. >> tonight how the president has stacked the irs in his favor and whether it will work. then -- >> i just want you to know i had permission to hug melania. >> then the political calculation behind joe biden's nonapology tou
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