regular season, took it to another level in october. >> while you're speaking let me flashback to that bloop single in arizona in game seven, 2001. >> it was the throwing era. it ruined that whole thing. >> tyler kepner, vanderbilt's finest. >> we were assistant sports editors together in 1994. >> that's correct. and look at you now. the book is "a history of baseball in ten pitches". tyler, great to see you. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhl picks up the coverage. >> we have a lot to get to this morning. focus on this one starting with the shocking new report that white house officials actually considered transporting detained migrants into sanctuary cities to retaliate against president trump's political adversaries. and now polling third in iowa, mayor pete buittigieg after the

candidate was attacking his religion. >> i'm not critical of his faith. i'm critical of bad policies. i have a problem with religion being used as a justification to harm people. and especially in the lgbtq community. >> and in just moments, former senator hidy heitkamp and former trump economic adviser gary cohn will be here to talk all things news and their new competition challenging college students to hack the future and do something no one in government has done. actually fix social security. you know this all week long we have watched as this president and the administration has hammered the immigration issue. portraying migrants as thugs and killers and threatened to blowup the entire immigration system if this situation does not improve. here's you on question. are we any closer to actually fixing the problem?

the president has all sorts of complaints. last i checked, he's in charge of solutions. i have a fantastic team here today. we're going to actually try to find some of those solutions, because you know what? the president likes to watch cable news. maybe we're going to help him out. first i want to remember where we started the week. on monday we were telling you about dhs secretary kirstjen nielsen forced to resign amidst trump's growing frustration over the spike in migrant arrivals. at least four agency officials were ultimately pushed out. this comes as the president's anger has been on full display as he has repeated -- while blaming the surge on everything from congress to the courts. z >> they have to get hid of the whole asylum system because it doesn't work. i don't mind closing the

borders. i'll do whatever is necessary to stop an invasion of our country. that's what it is. nobody can believe the decision says we're getting from the ninth circuit. it's a disgrace. we're fighting the bad lawins, e bad things coming out of congress. >> the whole asylum rules, laws, and regulations have been taken advantage of by people in a very bad -- people in many cases. >> i'm going to have to call up more military. but our military can't act like a military would act because if they got a little rough, everybody would go crazy. >> and today, you're not going to believe this one. we are learning that there was another idea floating around the house. nbc news has confirmed that on two separate o kagccasions the p administration tried to pressure immigration authorities into releasing migrant detainees into so-called sanctuary cities in attempt to punish democrats, including peeker pelosi.

an official told nbc the plan was rejected and is no longer under consideration. sarngt wea san officials in those cities want to protect immigrants from overzealous federal policies worried that they force the population deeper into the shadows and do nothing to solve the issue. i want to go to hans nichols at the white house. hans, what more can you tell us about these proposals? in plain speak, they wanted to take migrants who were being detained and stick them in those -- put them in those sanctuary cities and release them with the idea let's cause some problems and havoc for democrats that don't support the president's immigration policies. within the united states, attacking other cities, political officials. >> reporter: in plain speak, according to one former dhs official, they have these plans and they discarded them because they're, quote, so illegal.

this morning the white house seemed to be saying two things. on the one hand, they're saying this wasn't really serious, this was more of a thought exercise. at the same time, they say they had to do something because the cities on the border accepting these migrants, it was an unfair border. a white house official is saying it's totally ridiculous to say this is politically motivated. at the same time they say democrats were asking for this. democrats like nancy pelosi were saying immigrants are welcome. that's what they do by declaring themselves sanctuary cities. here is where the issue is and where the reporting will be interesting. we're going to find out or try to find out how high this went and what the origins of this idea and krusdoes donald trump support him. is this something that he would support? because the issue doesn't go anywhere. when you look at the march numbers for the border, over 100,000 illegal crossings.

over half of them were family members. there is still a situation on the border that this president wants to address. let's see what he says about this plan and whether or not he actually embraces it. >> i want to bring my panel in. robert kosta, which means his show is going to change 38 times between now and this evening. as always, good luck to you, my friend, robert. national correspondent for pbs news and david jolly, first time back since becoming a new father. welcome. former republican congressman from the state of florida. roberto, i am going to you first. take me inside this story. using migrants to punish your p political enemies, it seems like a whole new level but maybe inside this white house lots of ideas are thrown out and what actually makes it across the finish line is what we should be concerned about most. >> it's jarring when you see the headline, but it's not jarring for my sources inside of the

white house who say that steven miller, the president's top policy adviser and president trump for weeks have been trying to take control of the department of homeland security, frustrated with the migrant surge, and now you have these two people along with others who are allies in the administration floating these kind of ideas, thinking through a hard line policy, how can they make it even more hard line as they battle with democrats and look ahead to 2020. >> you have done -- we need to remind our audience the president doesn't have to take control. he has control. he's the president. you've done extensive work covering this issue. i want to share what "the new york times" reported. they said the country is now unable to provide either the necessary humanitarian relief or even basic controls on the number and nature of who is entering the united states. when the president talks about closing the border or blowing up the system, those are vague terms. but what do we need right now? because we're now over 50 days from the president calling this

a national emergency. >> that's right. look, it's absolutely true that the system is taxed. it's overburdened. what we have right now, the resources cvp and ice have are not enough to meet the needs that are coming across the border. there are more families and children coming across now than ever before. it's taxing the system in unprecedented ways. that is absolutely true. what we know from the report suggest just how far the administration is willing to go to try to solve that problem. they're not putting the resources in the places where my sources within cvp and dhs could use the resources. the processing centers which is where they take the families and children into custody, i've been inside those. they are horrible conditions for family, horrible conditions for children. there's no invest ment going in there. they need more border patrol agents. everywhere i've been along the border, they say we need more people, we need more immigration judges to process the cases faster. and it's important to point out

when i.c.e. takes those folks into custody after they cross the border, what they do is have an unofficial arrangement with border town volunteers. there is a system with nets works and organizations that help them accept people, get them on to the stage. most of those who cross don't stay in the border towns. a lot end of making their ways to families or elsewhere in the united states. that's an important thing to remember. we shouldn't be surprised the administration is willing to float things like these. we've also seen them float the idea of a binary choice, presenting parents with the choice either when you come into our custody voluntarily be separated from your child and have your case unfold in our system, or sign away the rights that your child has, the protections the children have under united states law and then remain indefinitely in detention. i don't think this is the last time we're going to see a proposal. >> take the deal, face the wheel. i can't think of a more difficult option. david, as complicated as this is, let's add on the rhetoric,

because that makes it more complicated. we know that the majority of people there are families, legally seeking asylum, fleeing the most dangerous of situations, but most americans are clearly not on the border. they're depending on the news or what the president tells them. here's what the president has been saying. >> think of these people, let's have an open border. they'll flood your houses. they'll shoot you. they'll take over your house. they'll take your car. they'll probably stay there. why not? nice place, right? nice place. they'll probably stay in your house. >> okay. no one is calling for open borders. i'm pretty sure no one else is saying that they are going to be flooding cities with home invasions. how much does this complicate things? >> that's a damning clip you just played there and the reason why is it represents a sociopathy. i hate to use the term, but if

donald trump truly believes that, that these caravans are full of thugs and criminals and he said isis members issue embedded in there and then at the same time his administration is suggesting releasing people into cities run by his political adversaries, that is suggesting the president, steven miller, his administration is willing to increase the likelihood of crime in communities run by democrats. that's an element of sociopathy that has to be discussed. the president either doesn't believe his own rhetoric or if he does, he is considering a plan that truly represents a new low, if you will. this story has legs. consider how quickly it got independently confirmed and the timeline is important. because we're seeing all these turnovers at dhs. the president recently said i want to go in a tougher direction. you know the way these stories work. it takes time for reporters to source these. they've been asking these questions for a week or two before they published that story last night and it was quickly iy

confirm. the president believes he has people -- there are gangs of criminals into cities across the country. >> a new low is what we could be in for. remember, ivanka trump called the zero tolerance policy a low point for her. i asked where that senior adviser to the white house is now. robert, you wrote earlier this week that her husband jared kushner senior trying to get the president's ear in terms of what jared wants to do for immigration. stee steven miller wants something else. explain both of those plans and why we continue to say well, will steven miller get his way? those words that the president just shared about migrants, that wasn't a written speech by steven miller. those are the president's words. the president is the one who started his presidential campaign calling mexicans drug smugglers and rapists, not steven miller. we keep pointing to steven. he's the guy with the draconian views.

these are the president's view. >> democrats on capitol hill watch a clip like that and they tell the post and other reporters look, there's no bipartisan deal possible if the president uses that kind of rhetoric about undocumented migrants and families. so when you have jared kushner inside of the white house still thinking based on my reporting that he can strike a bipartisan deal and get something on the table that addresses the migrant surge and is comprehensive at some level, you have deep skepticism within the white house and some corners who say mr. kushner is out on a limb here, he's not going to be able to cut a deal and on capitol hill because the president is incapable of having the type of rhetoric that makes a deal impossible in this type of environment. you have steven miller in that vacuum stepping forward and saying let's use executive authority and just keep moving forward. >> my goodness, this is a complicated issue and we must find some sort of solution. thank you all. we've got a lot more to cover.

coming up, wikileaks founder julian assange, it's a whole new day for him waking up in a london jail as the fight over his extradition begins. plus the key to saving social security might not be on capitol hill. but in college crass rooms across the country. you have got to stick around for this. former senator heidi heitkamp and former economic national council director gary cohn are leading the charge. they'll join me in just a few. alright, i brought in ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't.

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. welcome back. after seven years living inside the ecuadorian embassy, julian assange woke up this morning in a london prison. the wikileaks founder was apprehended by uk police yesterday after being stripped of his asylum status despite a not guilty plea and a judge quickly convicted him on charges of skipping bail. ecuadorian president defended his position to strip asylum saying this. we've ended the asylum of this spoiled brat. from now on we'll be more careful in giving asylum to people who are really worth it not miserable hackers whose only goal is to destabilize government. that's a wow. joining me now, nbc news intelligence and national security reporter ken delanian. people who aren't involved in the details look at julian assange as this assorted character who has been in hiding. he finally gets arrested. what they get him for is

skipping bail. it doesn't seem like much. >> well, but what the u.s. has charged him with is conspiring to commit a computer intrusion related to the original leaks of that which wikileaks became famous back in 2010. those lake leaks of iraq and afghanistan and hundreds of thousands of state department -- it told us a lot. as journalist, it was very interesting. a lot of details about how the u.s. did business but the u.s. government viewed it as a breach of national security. they charged private chelsea manning who was the army private in iraq who leaked these materials to wikileaks but had never been able to charge assange because they were concerned a saun concerned concerned assange was acting like a journalist. they charged him with conspiring to hack a defense department computer. and a lot of people who are concerned about press freedom

view that as a very clever prosecution, because it doesn't really impinge on the things that journalists do. there are some things that concern us in this indictment. there is a mention of the classified material and the leaks which in fairness journalists publish classified material every day, but the charge is about computer hacking. the indictment makes no mention whatsoever of assange's role in the 2016 russian election interference effort. >> how long can this extradition take? >> it could take a while, as long as two years if assange appeals all the way to the supreme court and it's already divided british politics. you have on the left the labor party in britain is opposing the extradition of assange because they're saying he's being prosecuted because he embarrassed the national security state. similar arguments on the far left and far right of american politics, but most people agree to this indictment as a reasonable charge against julian assange. >> will julian assange appeal, fight it? i'm going to go out on a limb and guess yes. >> i think so. he'll be doing it from jail.

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welcome back. time now for your morning primer. everything you need to know to start your day. we begin with pope benedict breaking his silence on the sex abuse crisis in the catholic church with an essay partly blaming the sexual revolution of the 1960s and the li libberalization of the moral teachings. michael avenatti has been indicted on 36 charges including tax fraud, wire fraud and extortion. f prosecutors allege avenatti stole $9 million from his clients to support his lifestyle including a private jet, an radauto racing team. he faces 333 years in prison. avenatti denies all of the allegations and contends the case against him is politically

motivated. thousands gathered in los angeles yesterday for the funeral procession of rapper and community activist nipsey hussle. this morning the l.a. city council will honor hussle and consider a motion to rename an intersection in his honor. the city of chicago filed a lawsuit against former "empire" star jussie molette. the city spent investigating his claims of being attacked. smollett has maintained that he has been truthful since the beginning of the case and his lawyer said he would not be intimidated do paying that amount. now we are going to get you back to politics, because today a number of 2020 hopefuls are fanned out across the nation. beto o'rourke making his first stop in south carolina. bernie sanders kicking off his midwest bus tour and a handful of others in iowa. the latest poll from that early

voting state shows south bend mayor pete buttigieg now in third behind joe biden who hasn't even entered the race and bernie sanders. this surge in polling comes as the mayor continues his back and forthwith vice president mike pence responding to comments from pence who said buttigieg's criticism, quote, he knows better. he knows me. in an interview with ellen to air later this morning, buttigieg said this. >> i'm not critical of his faith. i'm critical of bad policies. i don't have a problem with religion. i'm religious too. i have a problem with religion being used as a justification to harm people. and especially in the lgbtq communities. i'm not interested in feuding with the vice president. if he wanted to clear this up he could come out today and say he's changed his mind, that it shouldn't be legal to discriminate against anybody in this country for who they are. that's all. >> that sounds like a challenge. joining me fellow hoosier, former governor and senator of indiana, evan bye.

he's also the co-chair of no labels. senator, i cannot think of anyone better to weigh in on this. you know both of these men personally and politically. what do you make of this back and forth? >> stephanie, i think it's fundamentally a difference of opinion about the role of religion in policy making in our society. they're both people of faith. they just draw different lessons from their faith. the vice president believes that his religious conviction should drive his public policy positions. pete buttigieg on the other hand embraces the approach that john kennedy took before the baptist convention when he said the fact that i'm a devout catholic does not mean i will be taking directions from the pope or catholic church. i can be both devoutly religious but separate that from my positions on public policy. i think that's where the fundamental difference lies. >> what do you make about mayor pete's rise? at this point, he's in third in the polls.

four to six weeks ago not that many people even knew his name and those that did weren't great at pronouncing it. >> little like my last name. i think it's driven by a couple of things. he's authentic, genuine, comfortable with who he is and people are looking for authenticity. he's from south bend, indiana. he's not a part of the establishment or swamp. third and maybe most important for moderates in the middle of the spectrum, mayors are practical people. you've got to make sure the roads are paved, the potholes are filled, the streets are safe. actually doing things that help people in their daily lives which is a refreshing change from the constant back biting and partisanship that prevails in washington. for all those reasons, he's having his moment in the sun and is going to get a real hearing from the democratic nominating

electorate. >> buttigieg does not seem to be z distancing himself from faith. it's as though he's appealing to voters and change the conversation around what family values look like in 2019 and faith. we know that evangelicals were crucial to president trump's win. they may actually be his core unflappable base. do you think buttigieg could make a dent? >> he could. and whether democrats choose to nominate him or not, stephanie, this is such a remarkable moment in american history. nobody has had this conversation with the christian church, with the evangelical base. look, i was a republican that supported marriage equality and my approach was to say to the church this is an empowering moment for you as a church to embrace the teachings of your faith which were traditional marriage. pete buttigieg is saying you know what? i can be christian and gay and i want to have that conversation. mike pence does not get to define for the body politics what it means to be christian in politics. i'm mayor pete. i'm married to another man and i get to be a christian, too, and i get to speak about my faith.

what he's doing, he is approaching the topics of identity politics in a way that no other democrat has been able to do yet, which is he's inviting these traditional republican performing communities to the conversation. when he said a couple weeks ago i disagree with chick-fil-a's policies but i love their chicken, that was a brilliant move. because what he was saying is listen, folks -- he was saying i understand this is a tougher issue, but he was also wearing, if you will, his identity politics, his approach to intersectionalism on his sleeve special being honest about who he was. weather democrats nominate him or not, this is a magical moment in american history to have somebody say your quarrel is with my creator. that is a line that will resonate for all of history. >> wow. he seems to be making this more of a policy debate than a moral debate. will he be successful in doing so? >> that's going to be up to the

voters to decide. what's been interesting as a journalist to cover those, exactly what david was saying, that conversation is new and different. in some ways mayor buttigieg is reclaiming a space that has traditionally been given and held strongly, really just by conservative republican leadership and candidates. it's interesting to see him meet vice president pence where he is rather than try to argue on moral grounds or equality grounds, to argue about the policy. also let's not forget today is the day that the president's ban on transgender americans serving in the military goes into effect. and a lot of the arguments pushing back against that are not about morality and equality but about policy. when you have recruiting numbers low for military membership, at a time they haven't been able to make the cost arguments and readiness arguments to support the ban, there are people saying forget about whether it's good or bad. what is good policy here? that's why we see mayor buttigieg kind of putting down his feet, making his arguments right now. >> senator, i want to talk about this new poll that was conducted

by the hidden tribes project. to boil it down, they're saying what democrats look like on social media, on twitter is far different than the democratic electorate across the country and in fact, when you actually dig into democrat voters, they are much closer to the middle than certainly what it looks like in the media, specifically social media. do you buy that? >> stephanie, i do. i think this is just a further reflection of the echochamber in which we find ourselves. if you get your information solely from things like "the washington post" or twitter, you're just not going to really understand what's going on out in most of the rest of the country, including places like south bend, indiana, and the rest of my state. and so that's why the trump phenomenon caught so many people by surprise. if you drive 20 minutes outside of any major urban area, it's

just a different country out there. it's important to understand, you don't have to agree with their policy prescriptions, but to understand a little bit like mayor pete has been saying what their anxieties are, their concerns are, their aspirations are so we can have a conversation about where together we lead this country. i'm not a bit surprised that the social media doesn't always reflect the broader democratic electorate because it doesn't in many ways reflect the massive america that gets their information from other sources. >> david, what do you think of this? you've got centrist candidates like john delaney, john hickenlooper who would say i'm not being pushed to the left because i'm out there talking to voters, but social media does have a big presence and it does influence traditional media and how we see things, because we are not on the road. >> look, it's an incredible platform that you can have the president of the united states and somebody sitting in their kitchen in iowa with two followers on the same platform communicating to each other.

that's an awesome thing. but to your point, if you look at some of the largest twitter followers, those who are most active. doesn't always translate to communities across the country. my father-in-law, we were actually discussing aoc recently and he's a traditional kennedy democrat in central pennsylvania, catholic background. >> ocasio-cortez. >> right. and enamored by her like most d democrats are, but also recognizing her politics are unique to a specific district and there aren't a lot of those districts across the country including central pennsylvania. there are voters in the flyover states, traditionally progressive voters who will perform in ways that may not be as far out there as you see on social media. but they're still going to be there on election day and candidates have to reach them some way other than twitter. >> you covered eastern kentucky. people there are not making the same gripes that we hear on

twitter. what are they actually saying they care about and are candidates getting to those voters? because candidates no different from people in the media follow -- watch twitter every day and respond to the attacks on them. it's hard not to. >> i think some of the lessons we're learning from the studies we're seeing now are that the loudest voices in the room are not always the most representative of that electorate. the challenge for us as journalists and what i've seen on the ground, and i've been all over the country, along the border, and i went to the county that had the highest percent of support for candidate trump back in 2016, there is a lot of overlap. i think the challenge for us as journalists as we go forward and cover this lead is to remember to get on the ground, took talk to people about what really matters to them and to remember that sometimes those different communities, there are conversations happening online that are not representative of what's happening out in the country. that's on us to do better and i think we're going to be up to

the challenge this time. >> senator bernie sanders is starting his midwest tour. he's going to wisconsin, michigan, indiana, ohio and pennsylvania in the next few days. bernie sanders won three of these states during the primary, but we know the midwest was pure gold for president trump. many people in this region have said the system isn't working for me, i'm going trump. well, fast forward two years later. the system is still not working for those voters. we know that incoming equality is worse than ever. could we see those voters now go sanders instead of trump? >> it's possible. bernie won my state very narrowly over hillary clinton three years ago. in an interesting way, he and donald trump were tapping into some of the very same anxieties and frustrations against the elites, the establishment, the belief that the system is rigged, and that the decision makers don't care about the concerns of ordinary americans,

all that sort of stuff. their policy prescriptions lawyer entirely different, but i think that that's one of the reasons the president plays identity politics and other cards to try and change the conversation. that's why the immigration issue is out there. so many other things that he plays that he's going to try and use to divide america and differentiate himself by people like bernie sanders and all the other democrats who are running and get away from things like affordable health care, college afford ability, those sorts of things. where bernie may be stronger, the president will go with identity politic. >> but will the president be successful in doing that? when he ran last time, it was all about drain the swamp, big bankers and carried interest. fast forward. he gave a record breaking corporate tax cut, a tax cut so big many corporate leaders didn't even ask for it. including jamie diamond. he surrounded himself with former goldman sachs partners. so can he again go with the identity politics down with the

elites when you've got to look at the numbers? he has truly hooked the elites up. >> i think he's going to have a harder time this time. what's the old saying? fool me once, shame on me. if the election is going to be decided in places like wisconsin, pennsylvania that david was talking about, michigan, maybe you throw in north carolina, florida, but primarily those three upper mid western states, if the economy stays strong, the president is going to remain competitive. but i suspect he's going to have a hard time making the sale the second time around for exactly the reasons that you mentioned and the fact that for most of those folks out there the underlyi underlying anxieties, college affo affordability, the opioid crisis haven't gotten better and it will be hard for him to dwert th them. >> there is a wrinkle when the person involved might be shameless. senator, thank you so much. you two please stick around.

coming up, another indictment tied to the mueller investigation. this one is a little trickier. it is a democrat. former white house counsel to president obama. what he's charged with next. to licensed agents with geico. hmm? yeah, you just go online, or give them a call anytime. you don't say. yep. now what will it take to get 24/7 access to that lemon meringue pie? pie! pie's coming! that's what it takes, baby. geico®. great service from licensed agents, 24/7.

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time in the white house. joining me now, former federal prosecutor and msnbc analyst glen kersher in. >> three prcimportant takeaways. first, the fact that the mueller team or what started as the mueller team has indicted a democrat. president obama's former white house counsel tends to under yut t -- undercut the mantra that it is made up of 13 angry democrats. i think as a footnote to that, it shows that when you violate our laws, our foreign registration act laws and then you lie about it to the fbi, you will be held accountable when -- weather whether you are a republican or democrat. second they're coming to fruition even though he has delivered to barr. the third takeaway is that this

is a manafort centric prosecution because the dealings between manafort and craig that ultimately gave rise to craig's illegal lobbying. sob ev so even though manafort has fallen from grace, presumably is no longer available to mueller and his team, this prosecution is brought and it's going to continue forward. i think those are three important takeaway. >> indeed they are. thank you so, so much. i appreciate it. this story only gets more complicated. the next story is not complicated. maybe it's a solution. the solution to saving social security. we certainly need one. well, maybe just maybe it's going to lie in the hands of college students. at least that is what former senator heidi heitkamp and former national economic director gary cohn think. they're going to join me next.

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and as more people retire, the program seems to be at an even greater risk. in fact, the trustees of the social security and medicare forecast the program's reserves will be reserves will be depleted by 2034 at which point, the program would no longer be able to pay full benefits. well, maybe there is a solution coming. this weekend, a challenge. the road to 2092 is bringing 250 college students together from 28 universities across the country to present a plan to save social security. so, think about it like this. it's like shark tank meets public policy. the winning team gets to go to washington to pitch congress and the current administration on their plan. and the judges of the competition join me now. former senator, heidi hidecamp and director gary cohn. we'll cover news of the day, fed, border, 2020. first, we've spoken to a lot of democratic candidates and none of them had a solution yet to

social security. you're trying to find one with college students. help me understand first how urgent this is. i actually did an entitlement reform college tour a few years ago, we couldn't get college students to care. is that changing? do they realize it? >> i think it is changing, stephanie. the senator and i have spent the semester at harvard teaching a class about the real state of the union. in that, we've gone week by week talking about the current economic issues and we had standing room only with kids wanting to understand the economic problems. we also tackled social security here. if you look at the expenditures of the united states government, we have one being medicare and the other being social security. kids are interested in tackling these problems and when you tell kids somewhere between 18 and 28 they're going to pay in but probably not going to collect.

you said it in your opening, this system will run out of money in 2034. and there's a bunch of ways to fix it. and it's like any other simple mathematical equation. the earlier you get to this equation, the easier it is to simplify it. we're really excited about this weekend and how many kids we have coming together to look at this problem. it is going to face us in the very near future. >> isn't the issue, show, short-termism. current retirees or those close to retiring aren't going to face the problem, the money will be there. the younger generation. they must not want to pay into the system once they look at these numbers. >> stephanie, that is the whole theory of oour presentation. the real state of the union. we talk every moment of the generational transfer of debt and why they have to make these issues a voting issue if they intend to have a solid economic

foundation when they're our age. we really hammered that away. in fact, one of the reasons we're at harvard. so, i think when you get 280 students who are interested in this competition and interested in having that conversation, that speaks to a lot of concern about long term interests in the economy of this country and in these programs. >> i'm going to note gary is significantly older than you. >> that's actually not true. >> not true. but by coincidence, my social security year is 2034. >> it is. >> it is. >> by coincidence. >> everybody is really crying out there for you, gary. >> the interesting thing is if you look at what will happen in 2024. we will have three choices. the government will continue benefits at the current level and deficit spending, which is probably the path of least resistance. choice number two, we'll go from the current 12.4% tax that we're

charging every working individual. charge it from the first dollar that you earn and take that 12.4 tax to 15.18% tax. or we can either cut everyone's benefits by 17% or we can cut the future recipients, meaning if you start receiving social security the day after we trip, they'll cut your benefits by 21%. that's the mathematical equation we're dealing with. real numbers here and real math involves and that's why if we deal with this now in 2019, we can avoid some of these problems. >> how are you going to do that when you have these students are going to come up with a solution. they're then going to present it to washington. we don't hear washington talk about a solution many of the 2020 hopefuls are talking medicare for all. these things only cost more money. >> one of the elements of the judging is going to be political possibilities. and so, it's not just doing the math. because we can do the math. lots of ideas out there and

solutions on how you fix it, including larsen's bill. but we want them to think about who do they have to persuade and how do they create a package that could, infa fact, have political viability and that is the piece that i'm most interested in. to find out how sophisticated these kids are about how difficult politically this task is. >> math and humanity are two different things. medicare expansion is about trying to help people stay healthy. so, how do you marry the two? i mean, the challenge you're giving these kids, do you know how to solve? >> i have, i think i have an answer. >> which is? >> i'm not going to taint the competition. look, stephanie, this is the point exactly. so, every candidate that you've had in here and that msnbc has on, they're talking about social programs. and they're very good at talking about social programs. they're not very good at talking about how they're going to pay

for them. what our competition is how do you pay for social security? you have to come up with a solution. you can't just say, oh, i want to fix it and give everyone something. you have to say, look, this is how we're going to fix it and as the center said, this is politically how we're going to make it acceptable. so, the proposal is a five-page proposal and it's three pages of math and two pages of how you're going to politically be able to sell this to both the republicans and the democrats. >> and i'm guessing that portion of it will be about bipartisanship. >> it will be. >> because social security impacts everyone. i'm thinking right now about immigration. and we're not seeing anyone reach across the aisle. that is something you did when you were in office. when you look at the news of the day, when you look at the president calling something a national emergency that wasn't, but as the days pass and the situation becomes more complicated, it is starting to look as though it is an emergency. if you were to give advice to

those in congress right now as we face the immigration situation, what do you think they should do? >> take the 2013 bill and put it on the floor in the house and then send it over to the senate. we have broad bipartisan support for the 2013 bill. it's the same issue with social security. we know what the solutions are, we've seen compromises come together. we've got to build political will and the one thing we're trying to do at the institute of politics at harvard with all these brilliant concussion kids th have been working with build bipartisanship in solving problems. we're not going to get to a to b in five minutes here. hopefully by talking to young people who we think will be leaders of the future that we will, in fact, be expanding their opportunities to work across the aisle and come up with creative and, you know, nonpartisan solutions to these problems. >> most people across the country do not care about politics. it's not a priority for them. taking care of their families is. but we see the administration, gary, you were a former member of this administration.

we have seen more and more people leave the white house and it seems to be because they're unwilling to follow exactly the president's orders. now, changes potentially coming in the feds. stephen moore and herman cain. taxes not in line with the current administration and now they want to join the board. what is your take? especially with these two gentlemen. >> i think one of them doesn't have the votes. it's clear that four republicans have said publicly they're not going to support. so, i think that name is going to get withdrawn even probably before it gets officially sent up. and the other one will probably go through a process of being heard on the senate floor. and the question is, does he have the qualifications and it will come out in the process. there are some issues around him and i think will be interesting to listen to when he goes through the hearing process. that's why we have an advise and consent process in the united states. >> the biggest question you'll see from the banking committee and that confirmation, are you

really independent of the president? are you really willing to not listen to a dog whistle and do what the president asks you to do. >> what do you think about elizabeth warren's tax plan? >> i think it's kind of interesting because what she's done in a couple simple sound bites here is we had sort of universal consensus among almost everyone on the corporate side, as well as republicans and democrats agree that we should not have a worldwide taxation system. elizabeth warren has brought back a worldwide taxation system. whatever you publish as your earnings we will now put another 7% tax on it. more importantly, we have certain preferential items that you run through the revenue line that you don't run through the tax line to be very transparent and the sec says that. a really obvious one is muni interest. it goes through your revenue line and you do not pay taxes on

it. do we not want people to own bonds any more? >> heidi, gary, good luck this weekend. it's going to be amazing. i want those winners to come here on the show. >> we're excited to bring them here. >> gary, you want to go back to the white house? >> i don't think so. >> he's a no. i don't think so. sounds like you guys are enjoying yo enjoyi enjoying yourselves at harvard. i send you to hallie jackson in washington. >> i'm hallie jackson in washington. an exclusive on immigration and how the pentagon wants to use troops to detain migrants. a story you will only see here as we take you inside a meeting this week about the militarization of the border. we're also confirming that story first out in "washington post" with the white house floating a plan to bus migrants to so-called sanctuary cities. what our cities are saying about the reasons why. the