tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 26, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PDT
tonight for this thursday evening. thank you for being here with us. good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in. >> america is coming back like we used to be. >> the man at the top of the polls finally enters the race. >> we are in the battle for the soul of this nation. >> tonight, can joe biden's general election strategy to attack donald trump work in a contested democratic primary. >> i dream about biden. >> then is the president creating more problems for himself when he calls his former white house counsel a liar? >> don mcgahn is a really good guy. >> pay appreciate that the president does have a concern for christian values. >> a trump supporting evangelist calls for mayor pete to repent. william barber is he to respond. all in starts now.
good evening from new york. i'm ali velshi for chris hayes. the man who has been leading the democratic primary polls since they started is officially in the race. after waiting for 19 other candidates to enter the field, vice president joe biden officially announced his candidacy in a video basically saying his entire reason for running is donald trump. specifically, trump's comments after the white nationalist rally in charlottesville. >> he said there were "very fine people on both sides." very fine people on both sides? those words, the president of the united states assigned a 85 spreading hate and those standing against it. i knew the threat to this nation was unlike any i had ever seen
in my lifetime. the core values of this nation are standing in the world and our very democracy and everything that made america america is at stake. that's why today i'm announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. >> trump responded as he usually does, on twitter, giving biden a nickname, saying i only hope you have the intelligence to wage a successful campaign. it will be nasty. you deal with people who truly have some very sick and demented ideas. if you make it, i will see you at the starting gate. biden who really shied away from attacking trump ducked questions about his decision to run as if he is in a general election and not a priprimary. >> the debate about president trump that you have to get through the primaries first. why are you the best choice for democrat something. >> that is for the democrats to decide.
>> what do you think about the mueller report? >> you will find all this stuff in time. >> is the case against donald trump strong enough for impeachment? >> after joining with the highest poll numbers of any democrat, biden has baggage including 30 years of senate votes. his treatment of anita hill during clarence thomas's confirmation and that biden touched women in ways that made them uncomfortable. joining me now is jonathan allen, reporter and author of shattered, inside hillary clinton's doomed campaign. titled biden bets on democrats' fear of reelecting trump. let's talk about what that means. he bets on fears of reelecting trump. >> you heard the vice president right there. that was not barack obama's message of hope and change in
that video right there. he was talking about what's at stake for america. the character of our nation and what makes america america. the dangers, he said, of giving donald trump another four years. what he is arguing to the democratic electorate and the broader general electorate is that donald trump has given another four years, america will be changed. that's a fear message. that's saying if you do this and if you go down that path of donald trump, you won't be able to go back to what you had before. it's a very, very different message not only from what you heard from barack obama, but from the other democrats that are proposing very big ambitious left leaning proposals. >> democratic pollster and msnbc analyst. let me ask you this. what is the zeitgeist of the moment?
joe biden said some weeks ago, i am an obama-biden democrat. what is the thing he's trying to capture right now, because a big portion of the party would like the party to be as jonathan allen said more progressive and a larger portion would like it to be more progressive to do what nancy pelosi said and continue to win in those swing districts influenced by moderates. what is joe biden in the mix? >> i'm going to back up for a moment here and understand what an obama democrat is. you have to go a long way back to find a democrat who won back to back majorities. you have to go a long way back to find a republican who won back to back majorities. when he is talking about an obama democrat, you are talking about a big party. obama brought 8% of the electorate were people who never participated before. it's about broadening and expanding the party and bringing
more people into the conversation. this back and forth about progressive and or not fro gressive is an elite game. when you talk to the real democrats, they are talking about kitchen table issues and the division happening in this country and health care and they are talking about not just a job, but a way where they can get ahead. this left and right and who is progressive or not, i don't think it's a real conversation. >> jonathan, biden claims to be the og progressive in fact. he has been fighting for the policies and even in the midst of the criticism that joe biden had about anita hill and his habits about touching people. many said this is a man who had ledge administration and has been as he describes as a
progressive. >> he has been a progressive after the progressives got to the progressive position. he was against roe vs. wade and in favor of the iraq war vote that he since regretted. he was in the southern block of senators on that one. almost never where he started. he will talk about it a lot. that was after the anita hill hearings. this is not something who is going to lead on the progressive wing. the only thing he is going to make, and this is the anniversary, the 100th year since warren harding ran on a return to normalcy. he will be making the return to normalcy argument. >> almost never where he started
with jonathan. if the zeitgeist is about that with some people and that is probably true, he will have to make the argument that he is involved. i see a poll from the "wall street journal" and i have trouble believing this is true. it asks the most popular and unpopular presidential traits. letting the most popular. african-american and a white man and a woman and a person who is gay or lesbian and then a person over 75 and a distant 6th or 5th is a socialist. >> they are measuring something, but clearly democrats want diversity. biden does have a record that he will have to explain and it's going to get the progressives and opponents plenty of firepower. they are going to have to come at it because he's a front-runner. you will see the next two weeks trying to figure out how to chip
away at biden. that's part of it. had a field. that's a safe place for joe biden. >> good to see you both. joining me now for more on biden's 2020 strategy are president and ceo of the american progress. she was the director of domestic policy for the obama biden policy and michael steele, former rnc chairman and msnbc analyst. two of my favorites. let's start with you and take this question oust democratic primary. joe biden is acting like the presumptive nominee and in the lead. assuming he were to prevail, what does it look like against donald trump?
>> i think the fact that trump engaged joe biden helps his argument. joe biden's argument is that he is a person who can unite the party and take the argument directly to trump. i think people can imagine him on a debate stage with donald trump. he had exchanges with donald trump where he doesn't shy away. he is an aggressive assertive voice and i think in a party that from the most moderate to the most liberal left person, donald trump is on so many issues, most fundamentally on race and division. the fact that the vice president, joe biden is talking about those issues, it does help make the argument that he's the best candidate against trump. that's reinforing in the primary. the voters are focused on electability.
the more he makes the argument about taking on trump, the more he has the party. they are looking at the polls where he's doing pretty well. >> donald trump appealed to -- and so did bernie sanders, but working class disaffected people that thought elites and the system and global trade had all conspired to make everybody rich but them and taken their jonjobs away. donald trump won on a message of economic populism. joe biden would like to take that message back and has the problem of being part of an administration under which things continue to be difficult for americans. what's his best case when it comes to economic populists? >> it comes from a different perspective. number one, joe is every man. i think joe despite his time in the administration had a relationship, a preexisting relationship with a lot of those
voters and a lot of those workers across the country. they know him. there is a reason why he is going to kickoff the campaign working with union workers in pennsylvania. there is a reason why he is walking the neighborhoods and the streets of the community right out of the gate. he has that connection with people. people understand when he starts talking about bringing it back to the kitchen table and bringing it home for people to retain their jobs and grow their jobs and to get a liveable wage and to have access to better health care. that's a fight he has been on the frontlines of for a long time and certainly led the charge in some respects in the administration. he's got that sweet spot that trump is going to have a hard
time taking from him. trump can go after everybody else to joe's left all day long. there is that center left, center right in the country that will be amused by it. when it comes to bringing home the votes, trump is concerned about what joe can do to peel back the white working class voter who is came to him after barack obama. >> tell me about the white working class and non-college educated voters if joe biden is the kind of candidate who might appeal to them. is he also the candidate who needs to a feel those people to his left who are angry with the way things were before donald trump and angrier now. >> if you look at polls within the democratic party, barack obama himself is extremely popular. like 85 or 95% popularity. there is a contingent of voter who is are unhappy with the obama presidency, but it's pretty small within the party. my own view is whoever the nominee is has to make a case
about how they will improve wages and ensure their jobs and economic dignity and the center for american progress. holding a presidential forum with many candidates this weekend in las vegas. the vice president won't be able to make t but a lot of candidates will be there. joe biden's argument is that he has a claim to those voters, he campaigned in the mid-terms and a lot of swing districts. he campaigned in places like alabama and reached out to those voters and i think whoever the nominee will have to make an argument about how they have the ability to bring back those voters who were lost in 2016 and came back in 2018 in the swing districts. >> michael steele, a lot of democrats say they would like to see a woman on the ticket for sure. how do you think that the two issues that joe biden had to contend with the last couple of months and the resurgence about how he handled the clarence thomas and anita hill situation
and the allegations from women who said he did things that made them feel uncomfortable. will that be enough for him in. >> it will break not so much along gender lines, but along age lines. you will find younger millennial voters between 18 and 25 or 30. they are going to apply today's standards to a process and a period that is 30 or 35 years old and say why didn't you answer it this way and why didn't you address the issue a certain way, the way we would do it today. for older voters, this is not so much of a barn burner for them so much. there is polling that shows that split, by the way. older voters tend to look more
substantively about what are you going to do for me now. i have a business i'm running now. i have got issues related to health care and other things now. to the extent that joe out of the box said look, i'm not going to apologize for what i did then because it was a time and place. the vast majority of democrats support him on the crime bill. they sit at the same panel with him with anita hill didn't raise objections. there was a time and place analysis that can be done, but right now he has to focus what to do about tomorrow. i can only address yesterday, but so much. i don't think he wants to get caught in that trap of having to apologize and reexplain and explain again what he did then. >> they want more now. >> can he get past it? >> i think the vice president is going to be asked about these issues. he is going to be asked about it and i think those are very
legitimate questions about anita hill and they are legitimate in this moment where we are going through the me too movement. people young, old, everyone within the party wants to see they will have a president and a presidential candidate who is strong and can withstand a lot of give-and-take. i think the vice president know knows that he will have to answer questions about the issues and will be in a debate where opponents raise them and he has to have a comfort level and acceptance that this is not the 1990s. people want to know how you will handle the issues and your attitude towards sexual harassment and the me too movement and mass incarceration. people can understand that happened then, but you have to have a plan and an idea about how you are dreatsaddressing the issues now that are different from the past. >> what are a great conversation. the president stonewalling any
get the data options you need and still save hundreds of dollars... do you guys sell other dogs? now that's simple, easy, awesome. customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. and now get $100 back when you buy a new lg. click, call, or visit a store today. the white house is now denying the request from the chair of the house oversight committee to hear testimony from senior adviser stephen miller about the immigration actions. miller you might recall was also all over the mueller report just one week ago. the president said he is fighting all house subpoenas right now and seeing the oversight chairman to block a subpoena of his financial records. while trump stonewalls any congressional oversight, he is trying to deny woj of the key parts of the mueller report, how he asked the then white house counsel to fire the special counsel, robert mueller.
i never told then white house counsel don mcgahn to fire robert mueller. one of the congressman who sits on the house oversight committee, so named because it is intended for oversight. congressman, good to see you. i'm at a loss for where to start. i will start with stephen miller because he has been subpoenaed to testify about immigration and not the mueller report and the president is not allowing that to happen. >> it's important to understand that this is unprecedented. elijah cummings articulated that the chief of staff and white house counsels testified and numerous aides in both parties have testified. it is factually false when the white house said that white house aides haven't appeared before the committee. in the obama case, solyndra and benghazi and the investigations on the obama white house was producing documents.
>> i'm not understanding what the prohibition should be on stephen miller who everyone acknowledges is the heart and soul of the trump immigration policy. what's at issue here? >> this has nothing to do even with the president. it's all about policy. stephen miller allegedly said differently homeland security people should be fire and replaced and he's the architect of the policy to separate babies from parents and policies on the border wall and the congress said you have accountability to the elected people to explain why you are doing what you are doing. it goes to the essence of separation of powers and the role of congress that this president is defying. >> this tweet about don mcgahn saying i didn't tell him to fire robert mueller. the interesting part is don mcgahn is a lawyer and not just the lawyer, but the white house counsel. not just the white house counsel, but preparing the
president as part of the investigation who said under oath in cooperation with the mueller investigation what he said. the president is not just saying he didn't say something, he's accusing the white house counsel of lying under oath which of course would be a criminal offense. >> it shows that the president learned nothing from this mueller report. you would think he would be thanking don mcgahn and the aides who saved him from further embarrassment. the report said the president attempted to obstruct justice and was inept because of the insubordination. what the president fears is don mcgahn going before congress on television, telling his story. he is not as concerned about the written report, but knows the power of television and he's petrified of that. >> our reporter caught up with the vice president to ask him in the cake of the mueller report
whether he would actually not use stolen information from a foreign government and adverse aerial government. >> do you regret using e-mails stolen by russian intelligence during that campaign and do you pledge to not do so in this upcoming campaign. >> the united states is taking strong action against the founder of wikileaks for seeking extradition and we are holding him accountable for his actions and compromising american secrets. >> that was an interesting answer that had nothing to do with the question that was asked. that went on for a long time, by the way. at no point did the vice president say no, i actually won't. we won't take that stuff. one of your colleagues, sheila jagsonly filed the duty to report and refuse american interference of 2019 with a duty to refuse an offer of campaign
assistance and a duty to report the overture to the fbi which would be the normal response. >> it's sad that we are at a state that the questions had to be asked. how difficult is it for the vice president to say that i will not in any way accept any assistance from a foreign power. that should be self evident. they concluded that the trump campaign had an expectation to benefit from the russians. it's concerning that the vice president is unwilling to flat out say they do not want any help from any foreign country. i support sheila jackson lee's bill that would require any notification to the fbi if there is foreign interference or attempts for foreign assistance to a campaign. >> remarkable that you need bills to do normal things that
you inspired us to create internet that puts you in charge. that handles anything. that protects what's important. and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi. this is xfi. simple, easy, awesome. mayor pete buttigeig is a historic candidate. the first openly gay in the united states. he has been gaining traction, running third in national polls of democratic primary voters. one of the things he has done is take on vice president mike pence for hypocrisy as an evangelical christian for so
strongly enabling donald trump. franklin graham, a vocal trump supporter himself had about enough of it n. a series of treat tweets he said mayor buttigeig said he's a gay christian. as a christian, i believe the bible which defines homosexuality as sin, something to be repentant of, not something to be flaunted, praise said or politicized. it should be noted, graham never asked donald trump to repent for anything. not for his habitual lying about things big and small nor for his muslim ban or separating families at the border or his personal failings like adultery. he was vocal about bill clinton, writing an op-ed in 1998 entitles clinton's sins are not private. regarding trump, graham told the
associated press, i think this thing with stormy daniels is nobody's business. now he stepped up to the pulpit to attack mayor buttigeig. buttigeig chose not respond, but the reverend doctor has take earn issue with graham's comments and reverent doctor barber from poor people's campaign and a national call for moral revival joins me now. reverend, good to see you. thank you for joining us. what's your issue with franklin graham. >> he and many others try to perpetrate that as such. jesus is clear about what sin is. it is refusing to love people and show grace. sin is refusing to address the issue of poverty. sin is refusing to deal with injustice. sin is refusing to welcome the stranger and feed the hungry and care for the least of these.
he never said jesus said. that's important to recognize. graham said so much that he and others are about what jesus says almost nothing about. so little about what jesus says everything about. there are more than 2,000 scriptures that said what god calls us to be about is how we care for the children and the strange and the immigrant and the poor. you hardly ever hear him say anything about that. yet he tried to present himself as being authentic christianity, but what you see from past comments, it's a form of hypocrisy. >> what's interesting about mayor pete is that he does not shy away from his religion. he does not shy away from christianity and reject the idea that there are some christian who is take issue with his homosexuality. he believes in a fate as he
interprets it that is inclusive. >> sure. this is not new. frederick douglas took issue with the slave master religion because he loved the religion of jesus christ. he had to hate the slave masters. the slave masters told the slaves they ran away from slavery. there were those who used to say black and white people marrying was a sin. it never said anything about segregation being a sin. graham and his not fee lines up with those folks. not only is it on the lgbtq issue, but health care is a moral issue and it's a form of sin that we have millions and millions of people without health care in the richest country of the world. created by policies, not by the immorality of poor people. if you look at scripture and jesus, those are categorized as sin and we ought to be dealing with those in this society. >> you talk about welcoming the stranger and feeding the hungry. with regards to the southern border, that is not the policy.
what is a guy like franklin graham get for attacking pete buttigeig and never speak being these things of which you speak. never speaking about the thing that is the trump administration or donald trump himself has done? how does that enrich franklin graham? >> i don't know how it does, but evidently it does in some way. i wish we had a long show to deal with it, but this has a history in america. they call at this time spiritual mobilizer. roosevelt when he was pushing social security and the new deal. you had the moral majority and other groups that have come out. you know the so-called religious right, i don't like to use the term, but they started around the issue of privatized school and wanted to refuse to engage in desegregation. we had for years this strange form of extreme policies where people say basically if you are
against a woman's right to choose and you are against gay people and for guns and tax cuts, somehow you are on god's side. that's antithetical to everything that jesus live and showed in his lifetime. he can say this is the religion of franklin graham, but he cannot say his statements are the religion of jesus christ and christianity. we have to challenge that. i challenge it as someone who is a pastor and a theologian and loves jesus and i can't find jesus saying any of the things he said. >> you are right. i wish we had an hour to do this. some day you and i will. thank you for joining us. >> thank you so much. god bless. >> republicans caught cheating to maintain power. they call the gerrymandering efforts unconstitutional. tonight's thing one, thing two, stars next.
thing one tonight, when the mueller report exposed the fact that sarah huckabee sanders straight up lies to the american people from her podium in the white house, sam stein tweeted sarah sanders is going to have tough questions to handle at the daily briefing. that is hilarious. she doesn't do briefings anymore, silly.
it used to be a thing when the government cared about transparency with the american people and open dialogue. we are 114 days into the year 2019 and the white house held exactly two briefings. at this point last year, there had been 36. president obama's last full year in office held 50 by april 25th. sarah huckabee sanders was back in the briefing room, but not there to talk to the media. that's thing two in 60 seconds.
all around the country, it's take our daughters and sons to skbork as they call it at the white house, thursday. on this special day, it's not like little jared and ivanka get to run around the white house. the children of staffers and reporters got to come into the white house and the white house pulled out all the stops, even opening up a special room they used only twice this year. that's right, sarah huckabee sanders dugout the key to the
briefing room and chased out the bats and held an actual briefing, but for kids. we would show you the video, but the white house insisted it be off the record. a few of the questions the kids asked, like white what kind of ice cream the president likes and why they are separating families at the border. the children got to meet the president himself and luckily that was on the record. it gave us another strange trump talking to children moment. >> i even love the media today. i see these beautiful children, products of the media. i actually like you much more than your parents. you visited with our terrific presidential photographers. very talented people. you take pictures and you have seen people from all over the world, some of the great pictures that they get.
very talented, talented people. i wish they could make me look just a little bit better. sometimes i think they do it on purpose, actually. they give me pictures and my chin is pulled way in and i look terrible. they do that on purpose. termites, feasting on homes 24/7. we're on the move. roger. hey rick, all good? oh yeah, we're good. we're good. termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. terminix. defenders of home.
that the state must redraw legislative and congressional districts for the 2020 elections because current maps drawn by republicans represent a political gerrymander of historical proportions. it is the process of drawing districts to benefit a certain party by manipulating which voters end up in which districts. republicans have been far more aggressive in drawing districts to their benefit. in michigan staffer bragged the map was a glorious way that makes it easier to jam all the dem garbage in wayne, oakland and mccomb counties into only four districts. the result is in 2018, the republicansy kept control despite democrats winning the popular vote. michigan republicans are vowing to appeal the decision to the
supreme court court that is weighing gerrymandering cases out of north carolina and maryland. we know what the people think because last year michigan voters overwhelmingly approved an anti-gerrymandering proposal that takes the power to draw districts away from the gop-controlled legislature and give it to a 13-member citizens redistricting commission made up of four republicans, four democrats and five people who identify with neither party. it grew out of a facebook post from a young michigan der featured in a new documentary on gerrymandering and how the gop deployed the tactic to subvert the will of the people. katie joins me to tell her story after this.
maryland, and north carolina, ruling that legislative districts were illegally drawn to benefit a political party. more often than not, republicans. and now, a federal court in michigan has ruled that the political maps were illegally rigged by republicans to, quote, historical proportions. and ordered new maps and special early elections. this is a big deal. last year, michigan voters overwhelmingly approved an anti-gerrymandering ballot initiative, which began with michigan resident katie fahey who's featured in a new documentary on gerrymandering called "slay the dragon." joining me now talk about this, katie fahey, founders of voters not politicians. also with me, barrett goodman, co-director of the new documentary, "slay the dragon." welcome to both of you. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> what's the dragon? >> it's the gerrymanderer, it is this thing that we've had since the founding of america. which basically rigs elections
ten years at a time based on one political party or the other having more control. >> and in the beginning, one of these things was shaped like a salamander which got the name gerrymandering, but the point is, this has been with us for a long time. what's different now? >> what's different is that one political party figured out how to weaponize this, old political dirty trick, and make it a national strategy. that happened in 2011, right after the 2010 census. so they figured out that if they won a bunch of state legislatures all around the country, they would control the redistricting process, and they could gerrymander those states so they could basically cheat their way back into power and hold onto power for a decade until the next redistricting. >> katie, how do you -- you couldn't have even been in -- you know, you were a kid in school at the time. how are you involved in this? >> yeah, so i remember learning about gerrymandering in elementary school actually and asking my teacher, you know, if we know it's broken, why don't we fix it? >> excellent question. >> i got an it's always been this way.
after the 2016 election, michigan behaved in a really interesting way. in the primaries a lot of voters -- actually bernie sanders won then donald trump won in the general and when i was going to thanksgiving dinner, i was really nervous. i didn't want to go. my family was very politically divided. thy they started talking about politics. i thought, what do the two characters have in common? it's the message of tear down the system, we have to restart. >> that's right. >> that's systemic frustration that voters feel because they realize when they show up to the ballot no matter who they vote for, they're not getting solutions. gerrymandering is part of the reason why. mathematically, we get divided up once every ten years, whether we show up at the ballot box or not our voices don't matter as much as they should and lost our power to unelect people we don't like and elect people we do like. >> and then you come out, you u merge from thanksgiving dinner and realize that there's -- that the problem is one you should deal with. people are angry about systems that are broken, this is one of the easiest to comprehend, like
look at an electoral map and tell me why that makes sense. so what do you do about it? >> yeah, so i made this facebook post. i wasn't in politics. it got shared a bunch. in michigan we have the ballot initiative process, if people in michigan can write constitutional language, gather a ton of signatures, the populous can vote on it in a general election. i thought lst there's no way the legislature can interfere, let's go for direct democracy, see if people want voters to choose, rather than the other way around. >> what is the solution moving forward? there are going to be a number of these cases, particularly north carolina, now michigan, that are going to -- that are going to the supreme court. what do regular people who are mad about this do? michigan, it did, to katie's point, it got a lot of people out there to vote. some argue, michael moore has been on with me saying that, alone, got people to vote to go out to vote because it was an
initiative that was important to them. what does the rest of the country do? in all of our states, we have gerrymandered districts. >> there are a couple things. we can't rely on the supreme court. betting money is this supreme court will not find with the plaintiffs in these various states, unfortunately because these cases to me are open and shut. what katie demonstrated, katie and her folks in michigan demonstrated in states that have ballot referenda, ordinary citizens can take this on, through the referendum process, they can basically take the power to redistrict away from legislatures and invest it in citizens groups instead. if the state -- if a state doesn't have that ability, i would just say voters should vote on this issue. i mean, if you have legislators not will to give up the power to redistrict, it makes no sense for politicians to be drawing their own lines. it's just a conflict of interest on its face. so vote on the issue. elect those politicians who are willing to give up that power
because right now, it is a totally corrupt system and as you point out, it's affecting states all over the country. >> katie, there are powers behind this. this doesn't just happen. right? influential people put money into certain elections that they can influence so that they, as you said, they got the people in position to be able to be there to redistrict in their favor. can this be fought on a citizen level? >> yeah, i think we're proof that it was. you know, it wasn't just me, it was actually thousands of people putting their lives on hold for two years to dedicate their time, energy, their resources to talk about something that feels like it should have been left in civics class. >> yep. >> the reality is that people recognize that politics is not working for the everyday person, especially in michigan. and it hasn't been for decades, whether the democrats are gerrymandering or the republicans. until we start fixing some of these things, we're going to continue to be unhappy and the people who suffer are the everyday people. we had over 4,000 people gathering signatures.
had425 signaturs gathered. we filled the supreme court and had 300 people outside. this was connected to voters. it felt like a way we could start addressing the issues. >> there's a piece from the film, i want to ask my control room if we've got it. there's a short bit of you in the documentary that i just think captures what you were thinking and how you got this to catch fire. let's listen to it. >> i think flint woke people up. just sitting and watching, like, these politicians just so blatantly disregard the will of the people, you have these officials who feel untouchable. who feel like they can't get unelected because they designed and rigged a system to make it that way. i just reached a point where it was like, why aren't we -- how can we do something about this, like, how? >> there are a lot of people,
barak, in this country, who will watch this film who were the ones who were behind gerrymandering. this is not a random thing. >> no. >> they are not going to like this. as you said, the supreme court, the betting is not that they will rule for the plaintiffs, but they will redouble their efforts to do what they were doing. >> yeah. >> who are -- who are people who want to fix this broken system up against? >> they're up against entrenched money. they're up against plutocrats who have enormous power in this country. they're up against incumbent politicians who don't want to face the voters and have a free and fair election. and it's not -- it's not just republicans. although republicans have perfected the art. it's democrats, too. there's a case in front of the supreme court involving a democratic district. it's really about incumbents not wanting a competitive election. and until that happens, we really don't have a real democracy in this country. >> thank you for making the film. thank you for doing what so many americans will find inspiring.
getting up and taking action about something that you didn't think was right. katie fahey and barak goodman, thank you both for being with me tonight. >> thank you. >> that is all for this evening. tonight in rambling telephone call, president trump repeats no collusion, no obstruction and goes on to reargue the case against hillary and obama and mueller and beto o'rourke's crowd size. joe biden makes it official on video and a fundraiser tonight but going after trump head on and there is reporting tonight he's the democrat trump fears the most. and the news of the $2 million ransom from north korea in exchange for otto warmbier and what putin will tell trump after his meeting with kim jong-un. all of it as "the 11th hour" gets underway on a thursday night. well, good evening once again from our nbc news