tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC April 30, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PDT
right now the equality act is so important. when i hear these democratic candidates on the trail, i want to hear more about the equality act because without it, you can drive from one coast to the other in this kuccountry right and as an lgbt person, your rights change and that is not fair, that is not american and i'd like to hear more about these equality act as these folks are running for president. >> the book is mama's boy, a story from our americas. dustin lance black, thank you very much for being on the show with us this morning. >> thank you. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> hi there. this morning let's make a deal. 90 minutes, speaker pelosi and chuck schumer will meet with discuss something that they might agree on. infrastructure. but after reports that the two sides had similar ideas for a plan, will we see bipartisanship
or bickering. and a number of the trump family filing a lawsuit against deutsche bacnk and capital one o stop the subpoenas. and rod rosenstein formally notices the president that he will leave his post at the justice department next week. plus any minute now the acting dhs secretary will testify on capitol hill after the president announces a new plan to overhaul the immigration system. we begin today with the potential for new fireworks at the white house. in minutes president trump will welcome nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to talk infrastructure. peter, we all remember the three
time there's three met, things got a little wild. is that what we're expecting today? >> reporter: yeah, there was that meeting in the situation room that nobody saw but reports were that the president stomped out, walked out after pounding his fists on the table. that time it led to the longest government shutdown in this nation's history. so i guess the biggest takeaway from what will happen about an hour and a half from now is if anything is to get done in the next 18 months, today will give us a pretty good indication of that is the case. the two sides focusing on what has been a common cause for democrats and republicans, this idea of an infrastructure project. but the real question right now is how much it would cost and how they would pay for it. nancy pelosi is saying this deal would need to be more than a trillion dollars, perhaps as much as two trillion. certainly that would require tax increases likely or certainly other painful compromises. pelosi saying any infrastructure
investment would need to include clean energy initiatives, the democrats are calling for protections for veteran female and minority owned businesses as well. how will all of that sit with the president? we'll find out a short time from now. the democrats do see some value in demonstrating that they can get things done right now, not scloo exclusively investigating the president, but it is the backdrop over that constitutional clash as they relate to the president and his finances and his administration that will make for another tense face-to-face today. >> so they are thinking impeach. they are talking immigration as well. tell me that could come up? the trump administration is proposing some big changes for asylum seekers. >> reporter: yeah, we've learned about it in the form of a memo sent to the now acting secretary of homeland secretary kevin
mcaleenan and william barr. the president wants to impose new restrictions on migrants. some of the items detailed in the proposal, a charge of a fee to asylum seekers to process their applications. the restrictions would not take effect immediately. the president has given 90 days to draw up regulations to carry out his orders. this is the first significant changes to asylum policy since mcaleenan replaced kirstjen nielsen of course as secretary of homeland security. but it is more evidence of something that the president has been focusing on. he did it going into 2016, going into 2018 and again right now. he is really focusing on the idea of cracking down on illegal immigration and in this case what is effectively a legal process, those trying to seek asylum in the united states. >> all right, thank you, peter. let's take you now to geoff bennett on the hill where the battle is escalating between house democrats and attorney
general bill barr and his scheduled appearance thursday. give us an update. jerry nadler has issued a new threat to compel barr to comply. what exactly is he saying? because barr isn't worried about being shameless. you have to legally force him to go. >> reporter: right. and to bring people up to speed here, the attorney general is objecting to the format of thursday's scheduled hearing. so nadler wants the committee lawyers to be able to grill the attorney general on the mueller report. about a are oig are barr is saying he will only take questions from members of congress. now the committee has announced that they will formally vote to authorize the extra hour for thursday's hearing that would allow the lawyers to ask those he questions. and nad ler nadler is also still threatening a subpoena. >> the attorney general is afraid to subject himself to questions, that may indicate
lack of confidence in his own position. it is not up to the attorney general to tell the committee how to conduct its business. >> reporter: so bottom line is that the democrats are still going to have this hearing even if barr doesn't show up, even if it means leaving an empty chair behind the desk where he should be sitting. now, we talked yesterday you and i about lindsey graham who chairs the senate judiciary committee. barr is scheduled to appear there first tomorrow. graham just yesterday, he said he is encouraging the trump administration to ignore congressional subpoenas to use his phrase, he says president trump should fight these subpoenas like hell. >> wow. tell me about kevin mcaleenan, acting dhs secretary, he will be testifying before a house subcommittee any moment. is this about asylum seekers? >> reporter: this is an appropriations committee hearing. so he will defend the department that he now leads. he will ask for more money for more resources. he has been on a media blitz since being on the job. of course he told lester holt
that the department would not reinstate the family separation policy even though julia ainsley and i reported that president trump had encouraged the department to do just that. people who i have talked to who know him well say he is a could rear official, he served under former president obama, that he is not some sort of trumpian fire breather. we'll have to see how long that lasts. but what he is here to do today is to make the case to lawmakers who control budgets to give him are more money, more resources to do the kind of immigration enforcement that he thinks that he needs to do. >> thanks so much. let's take you to ken dilanian. ken has new details about the big resignation at the justice department. rod rosenstein, this is the sga who oversaw robert mueller's russia investigation. now officially resigning. this is no surprise. but tell us a bit about the letter. >> reporter: well, look, rod rosenstein as you said appointed robert mueller and he stayed because he wanted to see the
mueller investigation through. and he has done that. and it is rare that the number two at the justice department becomes a figure in the news, but rosenstein became practically a household name. and i think that he will forever be known for defending the mueller investigation and being attacked by president trump for doing that. but he will also be known for the way that he went out with really warm words for president trump and also for positioning himself for give attorney general barr top cover the way some see to distort the findings of the mueller investigation. and in that resignation letter you mentioned, he had very kind words for the president. i'll read a line to you. he said i'm grateful to you, that is president trump, for the opportunity to serve for the courtesy and hugh more you often display in our personal conversations, and for the goals you set in your inaugural address. patriotism, unity, safety, education and prosperity. what is so sodd about this, donald trump spent two years attacking the justice department
and fbi, arguably core roading the rule of law in this country for years to come and rod rosenstein knows that. he spent his career trying to uphold the law. so i hope at some point someone gets to ask rod rosenstein to explain why he went out this way for warm words who spent so much capital attacking the things rod rosenstein believes in. >> he went out with a love letter. thanks so much. now to california where molly hunter is standing by and we're learning new details about a u.s. army veteran now accused of plotting a large scale terror attack in the l.a. area. the santa monica pier of all places. what can you tell us about the suspect and what was he planning? >> reporter: good morning. that's right, we're actually outside the santa monica pier. the suspect was a 26-year-old guy from the area, his name was mark steven domingo. he was arrested in a sting
operation. the fbi says they were working with a human source that delivered bomb-making materials to domingo and he was arrested short li there after. they caught him because he was discussing violent jihad in online chat forms. he talked about he wanted another las vegas, he talked about retaliation for the christchurch, new zealand moo mochb mosque bombing. and that he would swear allegiance to isis. the quote that stuck out to us, a human source in the chat room with him said what is your plan, is your plan just to go and get caught and he said martyrdom, r bro. he discussed targeting specific sites here in l.a. he discussed long beach, huntington beach and as i said the santa monica pier. but he didn't actual li have the
capability. heed a but he talked about shooting cops, jews and even his next door neighbor and authorities say actually for those discussions, he actually did have an arsenal and ammunition to carry that out. >> wow, that is amazing. thank you so much. now we turn to a court battle raging this morning, you know i love this story, involving president trump and three of his adult children. they are now taking drastic new action to stop two specific banks from responding to congressional subpoenas and it all has to do with the president and his family's finances. let's get the details from our nbc news investigations reporter tom winter. so they are suing my alma mater deutsche bank and cap one, the two banks that bank team trump. >> exactly. this is a bit of an unusual suit. they are not going after the people that issued the subpoena,
which is congress, they going after the people who will respond to the subpoena which is deutsche bank and capital one. now, capital one folks might remember seeing capital one-on-one of the checks that president trump -- >> to michael cohen. >> exactly correct. it was submitted in congressional testimony. and we know from the president's own personal financial filings that he's provided since taking office that he has over $100 million of debt -- or his company does involving deutsche bank. so these are two particular areas of interest to the president. and according to this lawsuit that was filed last night in the federal court here in manhattan, deutsche bank says that they will provide this information by may 6. so there is really a clock here that is ticking on whether or not this information gets turned over to congress or not. in addition to that, deutsche bank says that they do intend to turn over this information. i mean they have been subpoenaed not by the president, but by congress. so they really have to probably reply to congress unless a judge
issues an injunction here and rules whether or not the subpoenas are valid or not. >> and does president trump and his family have a valid case here? . >> you know, i think when you see the bred tadth of the subpo, i think there might be a question by a judge saying whether 24 goes beyond congress' oversight. when you look for data that goes back to a period well beyond when the president was even up for election, before he was even a candidate. so we'll have to see how the courts might come in on this. if it is something that occurred while the president was in office or in the election or transition period, it is tough to see here where a judge would strike down a request from congress that has a lawful oversight over some of the issues that may be at play here. and congress has elicited an awful lot of temperature where they have been able to get them information that might provide a cause to get into this. >> all right. we'll leave it there.
we have breaking news. violence escalating in venezuela this morning. opposition leader calling people to take to the streets and join him in what he calls the final pa phase of operation liberty. let's bring this gabe guttierez who is live on the phone. you have been covering this sorry for quite some time. what is going on there today? >> reporter: well, as you mentioned, the opposition leader guido has been calling for months now military defections that hasn't quite happened on a large enough scale in order to tomorr topple maduro's government. but today he did ask for
venezuelans to take to the streets and he called this the last phase in the operation. he was next to an opposition leader who is meant to be under house arrest, lopez. and third, the government has said this is a coup that needs to be handled. so it is unclear what happens next. there have been some clashes this morning, some tear gas canisters that we've been seeing on video from caracas. but again, this is guido asked to military defections. and you can see from the supvid there is some smoke, tear gas canisters being fired. it is unclear what the next step
is here. but as you know, qguido still support from other nations. maduro government still has support from russia and china. this is a high stakes battle as the u.s. watches what happens in venezuela. >> thank you so much, gabe. secretary of state mike pompeo just moments ago tweeted about what is happening there. today interim president announced stop of operation liberty. the u.s. government fully supports the venezuelan people in their quest for freedom and democracy. democracy cannot be defeated. we'll keep you up on this story as it develops. coming up, all eyes here are on the white house for the big infrastructure meeting between democratic leaders and the president. and we'll be speaking to small business leaders about why we need more spending on
infrastructure and why they are willing to pay more to get it. and up next, former vice president joe biden hits the president where he believes he is the strongest. the economy. what biden said and why it could be a very effective message. that is next. that we're playing "four on four" with a barbershop quartet? [quartet singing] bum bum bum bum... pass the ball... pass the rock.. ...we're open just pass the ball! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. yea. [quartet singing] shoot the j! shoot, shoot, shoot the jaaaaaay... believe it! geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. believe it! geico could save you fifteen percent we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com
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on abc, biden made the boldest statements to date about his role in anita hill's 1991 testimony against then supreme court nominee clarence thomas. >> i believed her from the very beginning. but i was chairman. she did not get a fair hearing. she did not get treated well. that is my responsibility. and i committed that i am determined to continue the fight to see to it that we basically change the culture where a woman is put in position where she is disbelieved .as committee chairman, i take responsibility that she did not get treated well. >> taking responsibility. and saying let's get better. we can all agree let's get better. also out on the trail today, beto o'rourke who is fresh off release of his first big policy proposal centered on climate change. mike, do you first. biden in iowa and he has a new
campaign ad out. walk us through the strategy. >> think about this, i don't believe that we've ever had somebody win the presidential medal of freedom and then go on to run for president of the united states. and so if you are a candidate for president and you have that on your resume, you sure as hell use that early on. and what is important, we not only hear joe biden laying out his vision for the future, but more importantly we hear barack obama at that moment when he award joe biden the medal of freechl praisie freedom praising his krablgts character and vision. >> this is an extraordinary man with an extraordinary career in public service. somebody who has devoted his entire professional life to service to this country. when joe talks to autoworkers whose livelihoods he helped save, we hear the son of a man telling his kids he lost his
job. we hear the father who rode the rails hoemg every night so he could be there to tuck his kids into to. >> reporter: we also heard the vice president talking about how yes, he is proud of the record that he had with president obama, but thousand it is time to build on that record. >> build on that record. i want to talk about his speech yesterday because to me, he hit the president in a very sensitive spot. a place where the president could truly be exposed for a bait and switch. the economy. let's listen. >> the country wasn't built by wall street bankers, ceos and hedge fund men. it was built by you. it was built by the great american middle class. the stock market is roaring but you don't feel it. there is $1 trillion tax cut last year. did you feel it? did you get anything from it is? of course not. >> trump, he is taking your
playbook. michael, how serious is this fight for middle class voters is this because remember the trump voter was born out of the broken bifurcated economy while obama and the coast were seeing a huge improvement, many parts of the country, the flyover states, were not. president trump has not delivered for those voters while he says look at the record breaking beautiful economy and just points to the stock market. is joe biden going to be successful exposing president trump for this? >> yes, i think in fact at the heart of joe biden's rationale for his candidacy is his deep concern that president trump essentially stole this economic argument away from democrats, that they should have been waging. he framed this argument yesterday in moral terms saying it is the moral obligation of our time to restore the middle class in this country. you played that sound bite of saying did any of you benefit
from the tax cut and it was clearly no from the crowd. and we also began to hear some initial policy proposals from 9 vice president. there an argument in the democratic party about whether this is about leading or elect ability and he talked about the $15 minimum wage, he talked about repealing the president's tax law. and he he also talked about eliminating corporate loopholes that as he said reward wealth instead of work. and so that will be a lot of what we hear from joe biden going forward. he will continue that message today here in iowa. >> president trump talks about closing up those loopholes, amazingly they are still there. garrett, beto released that $5 trillion climate change plan and he now has to sell to voters. you and i know how important this is, but there are a lot of voters who still feel disconnected from climate and will a $5 trillion price tag get them excited? >> reporter: the plan itself
very well might. the o'rourke campaign feels pretty good about the rollout. they feel like homost of the coverage has been positive. and the fact that they started with climate is driven in part by what he sees on the campaign trail. both in terms of actually seeing the effects of climate change like the floods in iowa to what he hears from voters. i myself have been surprised but perhaps the campaign has not been about how much the climate change comes up. that is always a topic oftentimes he is asked about supporting the "green new deal" or not. i suspect from now on going forward the answer to that question will be what o'rourke told reporters yesterday, he thinks his plan is more ambitious and bolder than the "green new deal" and they believe this is something that they can continue to sell all across the country to anyplace that has been or might be affected climate change. and it has also gotten the attention of at least one of his rivals, washington state
governor jay inslee who has based essentially his entire rationale on combatting the climate crisis. one of his aides tweeted about it saying essentially talk is cheap and on o'rourke's record doesn't match up on climate. there is approximately a 5% chance that he will respond to that tweet. i see that mostly as jay inslee punching up. but it does speak to the fact that voters at least in a democratic primary very much do care about this issue that o'rourke will now be selling around the country. >> all right, gentlemen, thank you. up next, we just spoke about biden's economic message. but within sector of the democratic electorate is not happy with some of the anti-big business rhetoric coming out right now. who is worried and why. that is next.
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lauren lopez is a political reporter, and gabe de-ben debtity national correspondent, and gabe, this is amazing to me because president trump, he railed against wall street. he railed against corporate america and wall street doesn't vote for him. and now quietly many wall street donors are saying i can't stand trump. i think he is a whack a do. but if my choice is elizabeth warren or trump, i'm not buying a maga hat, but i'm going to vote for him. >> they are basically terrified of elizabeth warren and bernie sanders both because of what they see as anti-wall street, anti-capitalist in? way rhetoric. so they are not necessarily saying we got to go for trump, but they trying to find a candidate that they think can actually win and that can actually beat donald trump and not be too hostile to them. and a lot of them are finding that pretty difficult. >> laura, you cover democratic candidates. do they see any kind of political down side by having wall street upset with them? and let's just make something
clear. is this about political donations? because it is hardly like hedge fund managers are a big voting bloc. >> right. i think political donations play a big key here. warren and sanders have both sworn off corporate pacs. warren has probably gone the furthest when it comes to even swearing off big fundraisers, something that she knocked frontrunner joe biden on earlier this week. but warren i don't think sees any risk to this. her anti-greed, anti-corruption platform she thinks is resonating well with voters. i was following her in south carolina and she talks a lot about her proposal to tax, a wealth tax that would tax people who are very wealthy, have are fortunes of $50 million or more and it would be a 2% tax on them. and that resonated really well with voters. so far she hasn't seen really any down side to pushing this. >> gabe, $50 million or more.
that is not your average wall street person, investment pro or even corporate person. so you actually wrote in your piece, you quoted an investment professional who has voted democrat his whole career. but suddenly he is saying what matters more, my social values or my paycheck. why are we framing it like this? why are we framing it in a way that it has to be one or the other? there are plenty of candidates -- you've got a former congressman from maryland. you've got joe biden. you've got john hickenlooper. a string of democratic candidates that are not you're a capitalist or a socialist. why are they allowing the far right to frame this way your only choice is full socialist if you don't vote with trump? >> and you've hit on something that -- >> john delaney. couldn't find his name. >> you have hit on something that is frustrating to folks who have been donors to democratic
candidates in the past. this is not really a competition between socialism and capitalism as we're letting it turn into in this national conversation. but i think some of 9 frustration is wall street is being used at a boogeyman. not necessarily as much in previous cycles, but they are nervous about someone like bernie sanders. and even when you look at someone like joe biden, joe biden doesn't have a long history with wall street. he never had to raise a lot of money with them when he was running for senate. he obviously was number two to president obama. he is trying to change that now. and a lot of them do like joe biden, but they are still not 100% there yet. >> but laura, again, are we -- are they allowing someone else to create the narrative? steve schwartzman, co-founder of blackstone who went with president trump to saudi arabia and on that trip raised a $40 billion infrastructure fund, steve schwartzman who benefited immensely from the fact that carried interest though the
president promised to get rid of it remained in our tax code, which is an extraordinary hook for the private equity industry, he said yesterday if there is a dramatic change, if democrats win, it could be a shock to the economy. they are allowing massive republican donors to push this narrative that democrats are going to tax the hell out of them and shock the system. and your average voter out there, while they might not be a democrat or republican, are saying i don't want to shock the system. why are these democratic candidates not shutting it down completely? >> i think that on the trail they are trying to do that. on the trail a lot of voters aren't necessarily listening to trump when it comes to that. they still feel as though that the economy has not gotten better for them. so while the good headlines of good gdp numbers and the economy that is booming may sound -- have good sound bites for trump and may let him shift the
message a bit when it comes to democrats, on the trail voters are saying our wages are still down. health care costs are still soaring. we still want to see action on prescription drug prices that are high. and so that is where democrats are really trying to hammer their message and focus on that because we saw that in 2018, it worked for them and they are hoping to carry that momentum with them into 2020. >> we'll soon find out. remember the investment community, a lot of times just somebody with a 401(k). president trump didn't have the votes in the last election. he sercertainly wants them this time. up next, we'll speak with small business leaders about infrastructure and why they say they are willing to pay more to improve it. but before we move on, we talked about the escalating conflict in venezuela. you are looking at a live image of the streets of caracas as citizens and members. mi of the military are there in
proper position for what opposition leader juan guaido calls the final phase of operation liberty in an attempt to topple nicolas maduro. senator marco saying this is the moment to take to the streets. we are continuing to monitor the situation and will update you here on msnbc. so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com if you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. proper position for what usted . proper position for what to most, he's phil mickelson pro golfer. to me, he's well, dad. so when his joint pain from psoriatic arthritis got really bad it scared me. and what could that pain mean? joint pain could mean joint damage.
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u.s. chachl bettmber of commerc today's infrastructure meeting could be historic. he is just one of a number of business leaders who believe that the president and democratic leadership have political and economic incentives to cut a deal. and finally address one of america's most urgent problems. a survey of small businesses found that more than a quarter say mass transit in their area is poor or very poor. less than half said their local roads, bridges and highways were in good condition. vaughn hillyard is in charlotte, north carolina where they are badly in need of help to improve their transportation system. vaughn, tell me what people are saying because again, take me to the suburbs and rural america where they don't even have mass transportation. people are dependent on the roads and possibly high gas prices. >> reporter: good morning. these conversations up in washington, d.c. are the very basics of talking infrastructure. when you are talking
infrastructure, you are talking about waterways, sanitation, you are talking about air travel. but when he come to the suburbs of charlotte, talking about one of those things is congestion. you have these bottleneck type situations which for folks in most of america's major cities you've sat in traffic for, but what are the kofrconsequences? my car one emissions, lack of productivity, and also to be frank mental health care. so while washington is having those conversations, i think our capitol hill colleagues say there is 11 democrats meeting with the president this morning, you are a civil engineer here in town. you were you work in infrastructure. what should the folks in d.c. be taking into account? >> the community has really thought that this bill is overdue. our infrastructure has been given a report card grade of a d-plus by american society of civil engineers and there is common agreement that lot of work needs to be done.
and here in charlotte, i work with a group who have done a lot of land development and we've seen a lot of growth here, but it has really been challenging on a funding level to see our infrastructure match all the growth here. charlotte has done a great jobim proving everything they can, but when he don't get the funding from a federal level, it is difficult to see the benefits. >> and you just opened up the first line of light rail. what can be done, is it an extra road or lane, what can be done that the federal government can contribute to? >> building an extra road is an option, but statement you're limited by space. so investing in public transportation. we've done a great job here in charlotte working on a links light rail that is really flourishing, but we don't have
the funding we need to keep it expanding. and what we also need is a look at the future and look at how autonomous vehicles will play a role in traffic as well as how everything such as stoplight organization traffic design will be impacted. >> and we'll be coming to more people like you as the conversation takes place up in washington, d.c. >> all right. vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. now we have to turn to wall street. nasdaq and s&p hit all-time highs monday. 2000 millions of americans, it hardly matters. according to a pew analysis, roughly half of the money in 401(k)s, less than 20%, directly own stocks. and while the economy expanded at more than 3% in the first quarter, the median american husband hold has just $12,000 in their bank accounts and retirement savings. it is just one example of how some believe capitalism is broken. the subject of a new series in "the guardian." dominic rush is joining me now.
when my car is broken, i get it fixed. i don't throw it out. are we framing the conversation in the wrong way saying it is capitalism or it is socialism? you talk about the kings of capitalism, highest paid hedge fund manager out there, jamie dimon, who are saying capitalism needs to evolve or die. what does that mean? because it doesn't have to be capitalism or socialism. >> i think you're completely right. at the moment this country seems to be plsplit in two political lines and we're seeing what is a real problem. 40% of americans can't get $3400 together in case of an emergency and that is a figure from the federal reserve. that is a frightening situation. and now there is clearly a crisis, but trying to deal with it by saying either socialism or capitalism is kind of dangerous and ridiculous i think. >> now that we see the big
business guys, highest paid hedge fund manager this year writing this piece, what does it mean when they are showing concern about the situation? yes, they doing more in terms of philanthropy, but are they actually taking action to say let's change the strubt cture o our businesses? >> if you read ray dalio's piece, an amazing analysis. but when you get to the solutions, there is nothing there. it is kind of airy rubbish that we've heard before. it is the we need more conversations, we need more bipartisan cooperation, we need to set up think tanks, all this kind of stuff. there is no "there" there. when obviously the reason they are doing is now a because we're entering into a political season why elizabeth warren and bernie sanders et cetera are putting forward genuine policy proposals that would tackle some of the income inequality that we're
seeing and the fact that so many major corporations don't pay any tax at all. amazon made $1 billion per month in the first three months of this year alone and yet paid virtually no tax last year at all. >> why is it that these business leaders are now under pressure? there is one history professor quoted in your piece saying they haven't felt this kind of pressure since the 1930s. is that because we just went ten years ago through the financial crisis, banks and auto industry recovered, but all of us people who lost those homes at the very least have destroyed their credit and at worst still aren't back on their feet or have homes again? >> yeah, this weekend there was a trump rally in wisconsin, green bay, and we talked to people there. very similar to the people you talked to the left where everybody feels incredibly in-ask you are in their jobs 37 they are looking for different solutions. but the problem is the same. i think ten years on from the financial crisis, we're still feeling incredibly insecure. >> still feeling incredibly
insecure. we need solutions. but i don't know that we need to blow up the system. we have to find a way to work together. dominic, thank you so much for joining me. we'll be right back. arthur brooks is here. or child. or other child. or their new friend. or your giant nephews and their giant dad. or a horse. or a horse's brother, for that matter. the room for eight, 9,000 lb towing ford expedition. high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine.
welcome back. we just talked about how for many in this country capitalism as it stands is a dirty word, but is it getting a bad rap. economist arthur brooks says it is and argues that it is a system worth fighting for. >> people in the wealthiest countries in the world are increasingly turning against the very system that's lifted us out of poverty. >> if india did not adopt economic reforms, there would be 370 million more. >> the american dream is always predicated on you work hard, you get the right grades, you go to the right schools and a lot of time, it doesn't work that way. >> the real poverty exists when a young man or a young woman grows up with no dream. that's poverty, man.
>> producer of the pursuit and american enterprise institute, arthur brooks joins me now. i want to start with making something clear. you're not defending capitalism as it stands. you're saying this is a system, the spirit of the system works. maybe it needs to be updated and improved. but what i loved, you traveled across the world. >> right. >> mumbai, a small town in kentucky. you want to a buddhist and you saw things in common. >> they are serving others and part of the community and being lifted up through entrepreneu entrepreneurship. since i was a kid 2 billion people out of poverty because the free enterprise is spreading around the world. it does not mean that we don't need regulation or basic human morality and remembering how we can improve the system from generation to generation without throwing it out is the only way we can increase opportunity and
alleviate poverty around the world today. >> why do you see so many millennial s rejecting capitalism? >> they're not. they're going to some anticapit anticapitalist movement. they see the extreme inequality and big opportunity for us to have this conversation. we need presidential candidates and politicians today that are not saying throw out capitalism we need socialism we need to balance the ideas of an economy where we have a great safety net that is really reliable and have people argue about how big it is and the free enterprise that lifts people up and give them opportunity. the only way. >> the answer is somewhere in the middle. earlier we were speaking about democratic candidates who were rallying against wall street. not just democrats. when president trump was running in 2016, he was against hillary
clinton and goldman sachs speeches and flanked himself with goldman partners. are democrats making a mistake or wrong calculation in going against wall street. wall street isn't just a bunch of bankers and hedge fund managers. when you think about the rise in stock prices, who are some of the greatest beneficiaries and hard-working nurses, you know, the man on the street. they're benefiting. so, when we go after wall street, do we understand who that is? >> we don't. it's just an easy thing to do. the right and the left, they do that. we're so polarized and locked down. one thing i'm trying to do in this movie is relax some of these things. a complicated system in our economy and all of us could be better and all of us could love our enemies and our neighbors. that's the secret of coming together. what i hope we go into a new election season and i'm in favor of capitalism and in favor of a
strong safety net that is reliable and lifts people up and i'm not going to pretend that pouring more money in will fix it. we want people who understand that wall street is not evil. on the contrary, this is basically the reason -- >> portions of it are. >> people are varied and perfect. if you look at generation. >> more than people. business practices that you could say are evil without a doubt. >> business practices that we absolutely need to change. regulations that we needed to change. this is great. i mean, this is an opportunity for us to do it. but, remember, the american free enterprise system is our gift to the world and it's actually making all of this wealth possible so we can have this conversation in the first place. >> also not unique to the united states. in spain's election on sunday, the socialist party there picked up 123 seats. now, that is a bit shy of the majority, but what does that tell you? >> what happened in spain on sunday was a rush to safety. so, what is happening is the
polarization that has occurred in so many other countries had not happened. the populism had not happened and it started to happen in spain and started to freak people out and they went to the safe party. it just went to, it's kind of like people going to the center left and that is what is happening. i lived in spain for a long time. i loved the country, i have to say. but really freaked out about the far right party that was gaining votes. >> is it a mistake for democrats to allow this narrative. you're going to be a capitalist or socialist? >> huge mistake. huge mistake for the democratic candidates to go in this direction. americans want to earn their success. americans are not very interested in income inequality, they're interested in opportunity inequality. >> it is the fact that is harder to move from the bottom to the middle ever since we have been keeping record. >> you are darn right. >> that is a fact. true in the wake of the financial crisis for the past
ten years the gains have gone to the top 20%. that is what happens in finance crises. let's look at it as an opportunity to improve theist ism and have a dialogue between right and left, not about getting rid of the safety net or controlling the means of production of some crazy conversation like that. let's use the free enterprise system to get us the resources that we need and then talk about the safety net that will enhance opportunity not just trying to equal incomes. >> winners shouldn't take all but we don't want to simply get rid of the game. arthur, thank you so much. arthur brooks "the pursuit" will be available to watch online may 7th. i highly recommend it. that wraps us up for this very exciting hour. i am stephanie ruhle and see you again at 1:00 p.m. with my partner ali velshi and good news rules today on twitter and instagram. coming up right now, more news with my friend, hallie jackson.
violence on the streets of venezuela right now as the venezuelan opposition leader announces what he calls a final phase to remove president nicholas madur, ofrom power. people streaming into the streets. we are talking with the reporter covering all of this. we are also watching what is happening at home. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi meeting with the president to talk about something they should be able to agree on, fixing up the bridges and roads and when they met back in december we ended up with the longest shutdown in u.s. history. the white house says this meeting will be closed to reporters, but they said that the last time, too and then this happen happened. so, if reporters