that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more meet the press daily. "the beat" starts now. >> good evening. i'm in for ari melber and we're covering a lot of developing stories. democrats firing back after donald trump sued deutsch bank to try to stop congress from getting his bank records. plus a criminal referral for a top trump ally accused of lying to congress. and joe biden playing up his ties to president obama as he tries to break out in the 2020 race. we begin with the escalating stand-off between trump and congress over trump stone walling the investigation. the chairman of the oversight committee, now seeing jail time could be on the table for witnesses who ignore subpoenas. >> there is no tool in our tool

box that we should not explore. we will look the a all the those tools from a very practical standpoint. maybe we just want to deal with the fines. i don't know. but it's either fines or prison. that's the threat as democrats are in the middle of a huge power drug with trump attorney general bill barr after democrats that they want him to face additional questions from committee staffers they're preparing a subpoena if barr does not show. now chairman cummings raising the stakes and making it very clear, democrats are in uncharted territory. watch this. this situation where we can't get down. and by the way, can i get one single white house witness?

>> with me, from "the new york times," and the former managing editor of "time" magazine. i'll start with you on this one. fines or jail? neither of those are very good prospects, to say the least for the attorney general. you're talking about the attorney general of the united states here. possibly fines or jail if he does not show up for this thursday testimony. is that the only way the democrats can go about this? >> there are other ways. i would say let's bring it on. this is a conflict between article one branch, which is congress, and the article two congress, the executive. there's supposed to be conflict between them. these are remedies well within its power. the executive can resist and ultimate they judicial system will decide but this is exactly how our system of checks and

balances will work and we're seeing it play out in front of us. >> barr threatened not to show up on thursday. so many subpoenas when it come to financial records. so he's not just talking about bill barr here. he's talking about all the stops along the way the trump administration has made to keep congress from pursuing the investigation that they are pursuing. >> i mean, that's right. first, if the house isn't going to pursue impeachment proceedings, the unfortune thing is there are not more republicans joining them. this isn't a partisan matter. this is to hold, just checks and balances to hold this white house in particular accountable. that's not a partisan effort. it is ashame that republicans have become a party that are unwilling to perform their central obligation in

government. >> richard reich, the former clinton cabinet secretary, calling to arrest bill barr. he is saying get ready to arrest him for not showing up. he said no question, about issuances of security clearances. no questioning anybody about presidential tax returns. such a blanket eaddict. he is calling for the possible arrest of the attorney general. that's where we are right now. >> i think that's a little extreme. it is separation of powers and there are all kinds of things that you can do. i thought that joe biden moved the ball a little further than anybody today by saying in fact, by resisting cooperating with a legitimate investigation by an oversight branch of congress, that is a potentially

impeachable offense in and of itself. apart from everything in the barr investigation, which sit a really interesting idea. >> do you think they'll follow through on all these threats? i think there's a lot of ground to cover. this is a good place to start. they didn't exist because of the white house' inappropriate behavior so they're doing business as usual which is the exact right way to proceed. it is an extraordinary situation. but at this point, the house is using as up, the exact means within its power. and that's, they're doing their job. >> i want to go back to the point you made about joe biden. we have not necessarily heard such strong language coming from people running for president of the united states except joan. we've heard from elizabeth

warren that she was calling for impeachment after the mueller report came out. what do you make of it? >> i think it is a smart point. it is another bite out of the app. if you're trying to obstruct a legitimate investigation by one branch of congress, that is a potentially impeachable offense. high crimes and misdemeanors is whatever congress says it is. >> you have chuck schumer and nancy pelosi meeting with the president early this morning. chuck schumer basically going on the record and saying that he thinks they can negotiate with the president when it comes to that while they're investigating the president as well. i would say i think they're giving him too much credit. let's take a listen. >> how hard is to it work with this president on infrastructure when he's stone walling you on investigations? >> well, we can, obviously we

are here to do something for the american people. >> in previous meetings, the president has said if these investigations continue, i can't work with you. he didn't bring it up. i believe we can do both at once. >> two things. one is that these guys, pelosi and schumer, are quite experienced at this and i think they understand you can catch more bees with honey than vinegar. infrastructure is an area where the president does have an interest on building things, putting his name on things and that's actually, that makes sense that he would work with the democrats on this. the problem that everyone will have on from 42 is the republican party, which is grounded in new york city with the subway. it is not between democrats and the president but between the president -- >> you make a good point. how many times has the president president had infrastructure throughout the last two years of his administration? if there's one place there could

be a bipartisan every, it is on infrastructure. the question is, if it is going to happen. especially when you plane trillion-dollar plus plan in front of the president and you would not give the money he needed for his border wall. if you're in the president's position, i can imagine he would not be on board with that. >> it is in both their interests to do it. and particularly if there are impeachment proceedings and there's an investigation. he says look, i'm still delivering on this great benefit to the american public even while i'm being harassed. >> i want to bring in barbara boxer. >> i'm sure you just heard, we were talking about the infrastructure the pleasant. they made the point that you can still make deals with the president while investigating them as well.

>> absolutely. there is no job. i served for ten years in the house, 24 years in the senate. i was the cheryl of the environment and public works committee which was responsible for the highway bill. and i will agree that i think the tension will become more between republicans and democrats. because before i left, i was able to put together with jim inhofe, my republican friend, a five-year infrastructure bill. that's about to run out in about another 84 or two. but it was half the money that they're talking about now. you have to look at the vehicle miles traveled. you have to do a wealth tax with this president. mitch mcconnell has said he's not that excited about it. you have to do both.

that's what it is. oversight and legislation. they're refusing to show up for the congressional testimony. saying that he doesn't want to be interviewed by congressional staffers. do you think we'll see barr testifying on thursday in. >> i hope so for the sake of this great nation. we have equal branches of government. as it was stated by your guests, it is very important that the administration allow congress to do its work so i hope so. if he doesn't show up, it's shocking. it would really be obstruction of congress and that's very serious. and i think joe biden made good point. you have one thing to look at obstruction of the investigation that mueller did. now you see in plain daylight a president who is saying, my staff won't come. the papers won't come. i don't care what you do.

i'll see you in court. it is chaotic, frankly. >> what legs does the attorney general have to stand on when he says he doesn't warm to be interviewed by congressional staffers? since when do you provide testimony and you can dictate who it is that is asking you the questions? >> by the way, there is a history of people being questioned by staff. if you go back to watergate, iran-contra. there is a history of cabinet officers being questioned by staff. the reason he doesn't want to be interviewed by staff, the way it works, each congress person has five minutes. instead of asking questions, like passing a baton from one to another, they just ask questions so they go get 30 soekds their evening news broadcast in their local district. so congress should decide, hey, we'll have a plan and a narrative and have questions, or

yes, let's have staff people question the attorney general. he should be competent to answer those questions. >> senator, the "washington post" is warning that it is making more democrats consider impeachment. what do you make of that? >> i have to say myself, watching all of this, it looks like he's asking for it. i remember politicians in the past that that follow me around. you won't find anything. he is really doing this. i think that's why nancy pelosi was very smart. she said let's just start the investigations and follow it wherever it goes. nothing should be off the table as far as i'm concerned. nothing should be off the table. so are you saying you think the

president actually wants congress? >> i would not know what he wants. he doesn't make any sense to me. we have hearings. the republicans had a staff attorney who was hired for the express purpose of questioning. this goes on all the time. you have to say what are you hiding? by hiding everything, and even now his personal attorneys are suing deutsche bank. you have to say, what is the congress going to do? they have to protect the country. not only from this president but from what this whole thing sets in terms of precedents for the future. how the president can delay and distract and move away from our constitution. it is dangerous. >> all right.

thank you, guys, for joining me. i want to talk about venezuela. massive upheaval in venezuela today asle have been following. protesters taking to the streets in an attempt to oust nicolas maduro. the interim president was elected back in january. now moments ago, lester holt talking to secretary of state mike pompeo. watch this. >> have you or anyone in the administration spoken to mr. guido? we've continually spoken with him all throughout this. you see he is in the streets and we're not seeing him since this morning the russians told him to stay. >> you can catch the full

interview on "nightly news" tonight at 6:30 p.m. eastern. coming up, the most powerful democrats in washington hit back over trump's new lawsuit to keep his financial documents hidden from congress. >> he's prepared to fight us tooth and nail and we're prepared to fight him back. so we want to follow the money. dramatic testimony in the first ever hearing that had many in tears. you're watching "the beat." tears. you're watching "the beat.

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maybe this is why trump is worried. the new york times reporting deutsche bank executives have compiled reams of trump's financial material to hand over to house democrats including trump's tax returns. and now trump and his children, they are doing everything they can to prevent it. suing both deutsche bank and capital one, trying to stop them from complying with the subpoena. the house chair saying he wants details on trump's foreign business ties. >> the reason that we're concerned about the financial issues is this investigation began as a counter intelligence

investigation. not as a criminal probe. was a foreign power exercising influence? we want to ferret out, determine if this is some other form of compromise. >> and deutsche bank is tightly linked to the president loaning him more than $360 million in reason years of even though it was could not chewed that had trump had once exaggerated his net worth by over $2 billion. today eric trump attacking democrats. >> we're just, this is presidential harassment. it is not just my father. airing, i want to see all your bank records. i want to know how much laura spent on baby formula for luke, how many beers tiffany had on a friday afternoon in georgetown. >> and today mafline water who issued the subpoena with adam schiff is saying this. >> the relationship with deutsche bank is unusual.

why would they lend him billions of dollars? he's prepared to fight us tooth and nail and we're prepared to fight him back. >> joining me now, he's been into trump's finances for years now. his book the trump white house is called, it is even worse than it looks. what a title. also, i'll start with you. we just heard from eric trump on fox news. he said the subpoenas are presidential harassment because he says congress wants to go as far as to find out what his wife is spending on baby form landfall not necessarily sure that's what they're spending on. what do you make of that? >> i think that's pretty silly. if the president had met the usual standards that had presidents had met, we would not

be here. he's gone to such lengths to try to hide. the president's response is consiste consistent. this is really different. he's at a significant legal advantage here. unlike where the court, the dispute between congress and the executive branch where the court are reluctant to step in, it is not even trump as a private party. it is a third party. one thing to try to resist and not turn over documents that you have in your possession. an entirely other thing to go to court and try to actively block someone from turning over documents. especially when they are willing to do and it steam ask the congress for a subpoena. i think he faces a very high bar. and i seriously doubt he may be able to do that here. >> well, there are disclosure

obligations. so he's exactly right. the president is arguing that he's suing as a private citizen. i'm sorry, are you fish or fowl? he has to make a choice here. >> he's been blocking every probe. in your opinion, it works against him. i will say that it seems he is particularly keen blocking this. any release of any financial statements. plan financial statements, loan approvals, up to his tax returns. >> there is not now and there's never been a scintilla of evidence that he is a billionaire. much less a $10 billionaire. he said he was worth more than $10 billion. as president, his statement shows $1.4 billion and even that

is inflate. secondly, one of the things we'll learn from these transactions is whether there were covenants or side deals that somebody else was guaranteeing or providing some favor to deutsche bank. there may or may not be such a thing but the investigators will learn that. remember the deutsche bank has been fined $600 million for laundering to russians. and they've been fined over $22 billion. and it is not a huge bank. i think you can argue that given the sham tax shelters, that from an american perspective, it is an american organization. >> they have made the case that they are hook into deutsche bank in particular with donald trump's dealings because they want to see if there is any money laundering going on. so we know when it comes the capital one, there was a $35,000

check cut to michael cohen to pay off someone that we well know and we've been talking about for quite some time. we heard from michael cohen about all of this. >> i am giving to the committee today three years of mr. trump's personal financial statements from 20 level, 2012, and 2013. which he gave to deutsche bank to inquire about a loan to guy buffalo bills and to forbes. it was my experience that mr. trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes. >> so we have, matt, these hush money payments that were made from capital one. we have this statement from michael cohen, made in his testimony, talking about deutsche bank where he says he inflated his assets. we have republicans saying this is a fishing expedition. this is presidential harassment.

we know that there needs to be probable cause to gain access to these financial statements. isn't this probable cause? is not this enough evidence to show they should have access to these financial records? >> congress has a very low showing they have to make. courts typically won't even question the motive when it does make it to court. they have a lawful right to have subpoenas answered and i think they'll be successful here. in terms of president's response, i think when you look at the michael cohen hearing and you can see why he's been so worried about people getting a look at his financial records. cohen has always been involved. we know from reporting in the "new york times" that there were years he paid a lot of zpax other years they actively avoluntaried paying taxes.

i think you get a sense of why he is going to such lengths. he sued to block turning over tax returns to congress. you see why is it he's so worried that they might make it to congress? >> will we or won't we see them? that is big question. >> we will see donald trump's tax returns at some appointment. we will see some. the state of new york can go after him. under new york state haws, they are virtually identical. >> good seeing you guys. ahead, joe biden said he didn't ask for obama's endorsement. but today his strategy seems to be all about obama. is it going to work? first more on chairman cummings' prison threat, more in 30 seconds. hreat, more in 30 seconds. head.

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it is either fines and or prison. >> this as trump tries to stop former aides from testifying to congress. as we just reported, he is suing deutsch bank to block house subpoenas, refusing to give access to his tax returns and suing congress for requesting his accounting record. lots of suing going on. with me now, mike quigley of illinois. member of the house intel committee. let's first get your reaction to oversight chair elijah cummings issuing that very strong statement. >> look, it is interesting. before the special counsel's report was issued, the president obstructed this investigation. the long list you just detailed of what the president is doing is his continuation of obstructing that investigation. so obviously, it is incumbent

upon congress with its oversight authorities to use whatever means it has necessary to move forward to prevent this obstruction. i'm not sure, jail time will happen any time soon. that i understand there was something akin to congressional jail where the supreme court currently stands. i'll sure there are other measures more likely to take place. >> we do know the president won't stand down on any of this. he will fight tooth and nail on every single subpoena . >> we're fighting all the subpoenas. the democrats are trying to win 2020. the only wake they can luck out is by constantly going after me on nauns. >> he has put it out there. he is fighting every subpoena. you say it won't be as extreme

as seeing prison for the president but what is the plan to move forward with this investigation if the president is going to be fighting every subpoena? >> no doubt he will. first, courts are loathe to get involved in fights between different branches of government. one of the thing they ask for is a good-faith effort. >> it shows an extraordinary lack of good faithful so i think there are recommendeds here. i think the fines are one obvious measure. i do ultimately have faith that the courts will respond. >> how long would a court process take? we're not, when you talk about courts, this is a multiple year process. >> it can be. there are expedited options and matters involving this high level of discussion.

so we would obviously push toward that end. my colleagues are correct. we will use whatever means necessary to move forward. what i would encourage the american public to understand here is, this is a series of decisions that will decide whether congress has a toothless abuilt to oversee the executive branch. obviously, the stakes are high and we will take whatever means are necessary. i'm just suggesting it is unlikely the courts will put anyone in prison waiting for subpoenas. i think another option is it is possible to use the appropriation process to use a fencing off option to push the justice department to release their aspect of this information. there are a number of means out there for congress to continue to use its oversight option.

it won't be easy. obviously the rule of law is at may but it is a fight we must undertake. >> thank you so much. >> talking to you. >> by the way, a lot more ahead. trump's controversial pick, stephen moore, facing defection and heart-wrenching testimony at the medicare hearing. plus, joe biden tying his 2020 run to obama's legaciful will the obama coalition buy it? that's coming up. that's coming up but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? featuring three new dishes that are planked-to-perfection.

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obama is an extraordinary man. his integrity, his decency. he was a president our kids could look up to. there was not a single solitary day that i served with him, that i didn't, that i was not proud

to be with him. >> so biden very clearly tying himself to president obama on the stump this afternoon. and this morning, releasing a new video featuring obama, praising biden and his presidential of medal freedom ceremony. >> this is an extraordinary man with an extraordinary career in public service. somebody who has devoted his entire professional life to service to this country. he could not have been a more effective partner in the progress that we've made the best part is he's no where close to finished. >> so we can see the strategy biden is deploying linking himself to obama. obama has been quiet on the 2020 field. in the new poll, biden has the lead but we know polls this early don't mean much. the strategy clashes a bit with what he said just last week. >> i asked him not to endorse. whoever wins this nomination

should win it on their own merits. susan is a republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. i want to get you both to weigh in on this new strategy. former vice president biden attaching himself to president obama. >> of course he is, why wouldn't you if you were vice president joe biden? it makes sense. he will look for that obama coalition that got the president elected in 2008 and help him in 2016. it makes all the sense in the world. you can argue it is why he released the video that he did, focusing on charlottesville and racism and anti-semitism and all the things that president trump represents and all the horrible things. and he says, remember. we can look toward our better angels. and time one to deliver it.

last week he said, i didn't want president obama to everybody doris me. then there was this "new york times" article. then a tweet from president trump earlier in the week where he said, the reason why i'm even here is because of obama-biden. it seems like the biden team got down and says this is the strategy. we'll create the narrative and attach ourselves to president obama. >> it is really good strategy. kudos to the biden team. they're playing it out really good. he doesn't have to get obama to go on air today to say i like you. he can play the b roll. i want to get to that poll that suggests that biden is so high in the polls. cnn put out a poll. an ssrs poll and i have a question about that that i think the viewers should be paying attention to. according to that poll that shows that black people and black women in particular are for biden, nobody under 50

seemed to be polled. it has categories of everybody under 50 that says not applicable. so i'm really curious, who are all these people is this it is so early in the game. i think from a demographic perspective, he with should be really thoughtful about how the support is resonating to the climbed of african-american attachment. >> it is so early on for so many of these conversations to be happening. we do know the african-american female vote will be integral of the so important. as it went to doug jones for that race. it is everything. it will come down to voter turnout as well. this is one other thing. yes, everything is correct. would you rather be ahead in the polls than behind. one thing we've seen with the polling, specially "washington

post" poll that came early this week. the numbers are changing when it comes to, do you want to align with my values on the issues or someone who can beat trump? the numbers stay pretty steady at 44% for, i want someone -- i mean 47%, someone who is aligned with my issues. it has ticked down. it has gone from 49% to 43% as far as someone who they can get elected. which tells me people are starting to get, or someone who can beat donald trump, which tells me this is all about people starting to find their candidates. find their way. and they believe -- >> i don't understand why these two things have to be virtually exclusive. i don't understand why you can't vote for someone who you believe in. >> right. that's exactly it. >> the number is -- that's biden's strategy. to have that link. if it keeps falling as far as importance. >> i need to you stick with me. i know you'll want to comment on this next story.

there's breaking news on donald trump's controversial pick for the federal reserve, stephen moore. moments ago, joni ernst announcing she is a no. and she is saying does moore not have the votes? all of this college as moore takes new heat for comments that he made two decades ago. arguing husbands should make more money than their wives. watch this. >> the male needs to be the bread winner of the family. one of the reasons i said you've seen the decline of the family, not just in the black community but now the white community as well, is because women are more economically self-sufficient. >> i'm sorry. moore says some of his old comments were meant to be humorous. >> yeah, sure. >> then this morning staying biggest problem in the economy is the decline in male earnings. let me go to my all female panel

on this. first, are we surprised that donald trump would want to put someone in place who is a mysogynist just like him? we should not even be shocked about this. but there are receipts and video, there is no way to back away from that. >> it goes to show that there is no vetting being done by the white house. in a republican and democrat white house, you vet your candidates before announcing your intent to put them forward. they just say, hey, let's throw out the name and see what happens. good luck with that. they don't do the homework. they don't check everything that they need to. whether it is the candidate for the board or for a cabinet position. they just let see what the public does. >> so when will they get tired of it? right now, donald trump -- >> will they ever? >> donald trump is trying -- >> they're trying to disagree the things being send by the

nominees. the messaging coming out of the gop. is this in line with the way they think? i don't think it is in line with the way many think. >> i think the fact there are tapes, receipts, it is irrefutable. >> why they never get to the point of actually voting on these candidates. they're so inappropriate. >> all right. thank you both. ahead, everybody. a milestone. the incredibly emotional testimony next. emotional testimony next

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winning this reform will not be easy of the i sit before you today a hopeful man. >> incredibly powerful testimony today from activist ady barkan. the 35-year-old testifying at the first ever hearing on medicare for all as he suffers from lou gehrig's disease. he has continued his activism through his illness, even getting arrested by capitol hill police. pulled into a police vap in his wheelchair. he made headlines for confronting senator jeff flake on a may not and for making this emotional goodbye video for his son who was born just four months before he was diagnosed with a.l.s.

>> the coming years will be really hard, carl. for me, for you. for mom. all that matters to me is to make you proud of your old dad. because i'm already so proud of you. >> oh >> o from family and supporters all over the country. go fund me is a terrible substitute for smart congressional action. >> joining me is from the center of popular democracy.

thanks so much for joining. incredible testimony to say putting things in perspective to say the least. you are next to him the entire time. how was this testimony for him today? >> thank you so much for having me, first of all and for actually participating in this historic moment for our country. i was not only next to ady today, but next to him this summer as we went across 20 states from california to maine, talking to people and asking them to be heros to help transform our health care system. i'm proud to say that today he answered that call on behalf of tens of millions of americans who know the system of cobbled together care and this go fund me system we have currently in our country is not the system our families deserve. it's not the system that will provide us with the care. we were honored to stand with him as he called for our elected officials to be heroes bypassing

medicare for all. >> do you think his testimony really resonated and people heard him? do you think it's going to make a difference? >> i absolutely think people have heard him. let's be really clear. his voice is one of tens of millions, whether it was the folks on the tour, the fox news town hall with bernie sander where is the fox news audience cheered wildly at the medicare for all system or the most recent polls that say 70% of voters believe we should pass medicare for all. people in this country know their health insurance doesn't work. one thing i want people to understand is that ady and i, we have some of the best insurance available in the private market, but what we know is the system doesn't work for no income people or low income people and doesn't work for the middle class and even folk who is are doing well in this economy like myself, this health care system

doesn't work for our families either. he talked about $9,000 a month with my family and our health insurance coverage. we are paying $900 a month in the copays and deductibles. this is an insane system that prioritizes the profits of health care and insurance companies over the care that our families deserve. we are more than ready to transition into a system where every single person in this country has the care they need to thrive. >> i know that there is a reason why you are so involved in this. it's not just because of ady's story, but a certainly story as well. talk to us about that. >> my husband was diagnose saidsai saidsaid ed with multiple sclerosis and we were well taken care of. we did not think about our health care. we were lucky enough to have private insurance unlike many people. what we realized is that private

insurance is a trap. the approximate were is to make a profit for the companies. when you get sick and need the care the most, that's when it all of a sudden evaporates on you. you spend most of your time arguing to cover medicine that should be a part of your care. you have issues in terms of trying to see the doctors you need and the insurance companies are not listening to the doctors when they prescribe the inside your family needs. we know this system is not working and in fact we heard today in the hearing that if wiper designing a health system from scratch, this is absolutely not the system anyone, democrat or republican, would actually design. we have an opportunity in this moment as the country is ready for transformation. we are in a moment where we have to decide, are we going to be a nation that cares for everyone in the borders and that invests in the help and the computer of

our country or will we continue down this every person for themselves path that leaves far too many families behind. >> we appreciate your testimony. please give our best to ady and we appreciate your voice. we'll be right back, everybody. e we'll be right back, everybody begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life. [horn honks] man this is what i feel like when i wear regular shoes, cramped and uncomfortable. we can arrange a little upgrade. which is why i wear skechers... wide fit shoes. they have extra room throughout. they're like a luxury ride for my feet. try skechers wide fit shoes. they're like a luxury ride for my feet.

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[laughter] (vo) go national. go like a pro. see what i did there? welcome back. get your popcorn ready. bill barr will fis questions on the mueller report before the committee. barr is going to be pressed on

his four-page letter clearing trump on obstruction and his unusual press conference before releasing the report and much,much more. we will have it covered here tomorrow night. see you back here tomorrow morning at 5:00 a.m. and chris matthews starts right now. >> biden riding high. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. big political news on two fronts. the man who man who built a confrontation to defeat donald trump shot up in three major polls. the man he targeted for defeat is escalating and suing his own banks to block the subpoena to turn over financial records. we will get to that soon.

joe biden is o