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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  May 28, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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not in any rush to get a deal done with klein. markets are responding negatively across the board. thank you for watching. i'll be back at 1:00 with stephanie and 3:00 p.m. eastern. deadline white house with nicolle wallace begins right now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c., where donald trump just returned to the white house after a tour de farce in japan. you can take the dictator loving president out of america but you can't today grievance obsessed dictator lover out of the american president. the trip went off the rails as so many scenes in this presidency do with a single tweet. "the washington post" reports, like many strategies to influence and contain the president, the carefully planned japanese attempt hit something of a skid on trump's first full day in tokyo when trump fired off a tweet in a single missive undermined his national security
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adviser, aligned him with a brutal dictator, and attacked a democratic rival on foreign soil. here is the offending, "north korea fired off some weapons, which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. i have confidence that chairman kim will keep his promise to me and also smiled when he called swampman joe biden a low iq individual and worse. perhaps that's sending me a signal? the backlash in response to the ridiculous statement, including from republicans, the president went further in a press conference yesterday. >> does it give you pause at all to be appearing to side with a brutal dictator instead of with the fellow american former vice president joe biden. >> kim jong-un made a statement that joe biden is a low iq individual. he probably is, based on his record. i think i agree with him on that. >> in response, vice president joe biden acted more
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presidential than the president by waiting until donald trump returned to the u.s. just a few hours ago to weigh in. he issued this statement through a campaign spokeswoman, quote, the president's comments are beneath the dignity of the office. to be on foreign soil, on memorial day, and to side repeated with a murderous dictator against a fellow american and former vice president speaks for itself. and it's part of a pattern of embracing autocrats at the expense of our institutions, whether taking putin's word at face value in helsinki or exchanging love letters with kim jong-un. trump's performance over the weekend turned the american presidency into an international embarrassment on the world stage. "new york times" describes the outing this way, quote, throughout his visit, though, mr. trump acted like a man who could never be fully present. from start to fini, his stay in japan was defined more by his focus on politics at home than diplomacy abroad. expressed as a running refrain
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posted online, seemingly every time he was left alone with his screens. he really is six. that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. joining on set washington potts columnist eugene robinson, robert costa national political reporter, frank figliuzzi, former fbi, peter baker chief white house correspondent for "the new york times." all lucky for us msnbc contributors. i want to start with robert costa and peter baker because your colleagues who were on this trip turned in pulitzer worthy dispatches. i read all of annie and all the coordinators on this trip's stories like i was reading something out of the on i don't know. let me start with you because we started with parker's reporter. your thoughts. >> when you look at political theater of this trip, there was
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a lot to cite, write about. colleagues wrote incisive reports about what president trump did. what didn't happen, a trade deal with japan, sanctions on north korea. any progress on a chinese trade deal. all these important policy pillars for the trump administration relatively left untouched by this trip. instead the president engaging with the emperor, engaging with the japanese prime minister. >> peter baker, it's a great point and something i wondered why it was missing from biden's statement. donald trump didn't just look ridiculous, debase the office, he looked weak sucking up to a dictator and looked like a loser by failing on big foreign policy objectives they set out for themselves. >> well, look, this was meant to be mostly a ceremonial visit. the real test is a month from now when he goes back to tokyo, osaka japan for g-20 summit.
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that's where he'll meet with president putin and president xi and a lot of big items on the table. sumo wrestling will not be one of them. it will be the fate of north korea. it will be the future relationship with russia. it will be big issues. i think that'sen wo of the reasons why this disconnect with his own national security adviser is very interesting. he contradicted john bolton on whether north korean short range missiles violated u.n. reillusion and contradicted john bolton whether the regime changes will be the desire america seeks. the beginning of the trump administration you had a security team seen as restraining the president. now when it comes to north korea and japan you see it the other way around. the president seems to be restraining his hawkish national security adviser on how hard to push these rogue states. >> frank figliuzzi, i worked in
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the last republican administration john bolton served. it's hard to be at odds with john bolton, he's foreign policy version of per missive parent. he gives him a lot of running room to let trump be trump. my point is to run afoul of john bolton is to run afoul of u.s. national security interests. >> in fact, we could joke to run afoul of john bolton, maybe align yourself with a ruthless dictator. well, he's done that. he's done it on a foreign trip. nicole, there's actually national security implications to this president's conduct while he's abroad and other places. by that i mean, he's being played. world leaders now understand that if you suck up to him enough, and if you hit the right button by perhaps making statements against an opponent of his, in this case joe biden, you will win his favor.
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so foreign policy actually becomes shaped not by what a world leader believes or how he conducts himself or whether his philosophy alliance with america's philosophy but rather who can suck up the most at the right time to this president. so what it means is our allies can no longer rely on us to have their back no matter what. the president of japan tried to hit those right buttons, the president with red carpet and other ceremonies. what does the president do, alliance himself with kim jong-un who just fired short range missiles, risking the security of our ally japan but alliance himself and says i'm not worried about that and says i agree with him with regard to my political opponent. what's it all about? it's personal interest over national interest. that concerns me from a security standpoint. >> you know what, frank, you just hit on really the crisis that unfolded before us. it wasn't just the lunacy of it.
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as you always do, you bring it back to our national security. but i think the most sort of scathing indictment of the president's conduct you just put your finger on. everyone saw the images from saudi arabia. everyone knows how to get to yes with donald trump now. the point is the shiny dictator doing a lot less to sort of tickle his fancy, stole the spotlight from the foreign leader sucking up to him. it does represent sort of an escalation of his vulnerability and weakness and his craving of attention. >> look, every country performs psychological assessments of the american president. they try to figure out how best to do this. so when the president says he's the most transparent president in history, he's got a point. he is transparently vulnerable and easy to read. north korea has got his number at this point. my question is moving forward, have we crossed the point of no
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return with regard to foreign nations getting entangled with our internal political cam papers and elections. i fear we may have crossed that point. >> eugene, you've written a lot about sort of the echos of autocracy. i wonder if that's the wrong frame. are we there already? >> well, we're somewhere we haven't before and somewhere i don't particularly like us to be. that was one of the most disgraceful performances ever by a u.s. president on foreign soil. i say one of the, because donald trump has been abroad before. there was a time alluded to north korean general, kowtowed to putin. he keeps doing this. as frank said, any world government that doesn't have a detailed psychological profile of donald trump at this point, which detailing what puttons to push when, is guilty of malpractice. of course they all do. of course kim jong-un knows what he's doing. he knew what he was going when
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the north koreans attacked joe biden. that's why they attacked. they knew that would be more powerful than sumo and emperor, everything else. the japanese laid out all they have. that's all they got. they got the emperor. they don't have anything more. but kim jong-un knew that joe biden, that's the way. >> that's the trigger. >> that's the way to the man's heart. >> kareit would seem to suggest donald trump not rowing with security interest, one of the examples you could put up there would be kim jong-un and donald trump saying the same thing about joe biden. >> it's really scary. he basically followed the dictator and attacked a former vice president on american soil, as we keep hearing. it's unbelievable. this is not the way we do
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things. what has happened, donald trump has broken the office of the presidency so much that it's not recognizable. let's not forget, u.s. taxpayers flew him across -- around the world. what does he do, he appearingry tweets. donald trump once again shows when he goes to a foreign country, it's not about our interest, it's about his personal interest, his political battles. he puts it on display and he allows himself to be played by dictators over and over and over again, sides with them. our allies are just sitting there like the japanese in japan. they are like what else can we do. like you said, we gave him everything. sure, south korea is concerned, japan is concerned. what else can they possibly do to have this president stand up against kim jong-un? >> robert costa, let me ask you about some of the dynamics between what ashleyly parker and josh reporting about how he
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attacked his national security adviser, the tweet double downed on the press conference. the japanese might end up at a saki bar at the end of the night wondering what could we have done. i wonder if john bolton would be at the other bar saying what could we have done. we've shown him the satellite images. is there any exasperation about the things he says about kim jong-un. oh, he writes me love letters and i'm going to ignore my intel committee, talk about sending my intel chiefs back to school when they talk about the real threat. i imagine john bolton was on this trip. any insight into how that relationship stands. >> the insight we've gleaned with conversations with white house officials, this is an administration that governs and runs its diplomacy through ch s chaos. at best they are arguing to reporters and allies chaos keeps adversaries on edge. they don't know who to trust,
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president trump's word or national security adviser john bolton's word. critics say this is unmanageable way to run foreign policy. not have any coherence to the statements you're making or direction you want to make u.s. foreign policy go, the doctrine you're trying to build. president trump goes from fire and fury with kim jong-un to love letters with kim jong-un. this is something john bolton is aware of at a deep level. he encounters it daily. it's part of the challenge of being national security adviser. he doesn't leave, quit like so many others because he wants to be part of the power structure. >> frank figliuzzi, let me read you some of the dictator-like conduct from the president. if you could just continue to flesh out the image of what is evaluated when foreign leaders and foreign governments and especially american adversaries try to figure out how to get to or pull one over on the president. attacking the president, calling the media enemies of the people, supporting a propaganda machine, retweeting things false, fake videos, fake news. joking about running for two
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more terms, not respecting the diplomatic norms. encouraging, tolerating violence on his behalf, questioning and deny legitimacy of political opponents. what does that look like from points abroad? >> well, look, robert just used the word chaos. we are in chaos. this is almost a deliberate strategy of chaos so that no one can figure this guy out. what the result is, we can't rely on our institutions anymore. we don't know what truth is anymore. we don't even believe ourselves, our media. we don't know where to seek out facts. what happens in an environment of chaos is that person creating and generating chaos, in this case the president, becomes the arbiter of fact. everything focuses on him. not on policy, not on legislation, not on institutions, but it's all about him. eventually, that collapses. it's almost the chaos of a cult.
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it's almost the culture of a cult. so around the world, our allies are thinking they don't have our back anymore. we're going to begin doing unilateral transactions in our own self-interest and our enemies are thinking, this guy could be ours. he might like us if we suck up to him enough. none of this strategy is ultimately going to prevail and could get much worse, nicole. >> peter baker, annie carney writes about the gravitational pull of the president to his screens. children know it doesn't take too much to break the cycle, punishment and reward. this president saw reward to tweeting about following on the trip. democrats investigating him. mark warner, threats of impeachment, 1994 crime bill, libelle laws, rolling thunder, their legal challenges to getting a permit, jussie smollett and border wall ruling
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and i think there were a few more off topic. that's what we grabbed ahead of time. what are the particular challenges to covering a president who swerves all over the place and never really gets to the business at hand? >> yeah, you know, my fn told me i had 18% less screen time this week than last week. i was pretty proud of that. i don't know whether his screen time goes down when he's overseas or not. the original thought was when he took office, he wouldn't do that much tweeting overseas because he wouldn't have that much time, phone might not connect, might be security issues. he seemed to have solved that. he seemed to be up 24 hours a day in japan, tweeting on indianapolis 500. he's our national commentator, national a play by play man. he's weighing in on all sorts of things that go far afield of his main job as president. television, foreign politics.
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he encouraged by by netanyahu, prime minister of israel to get his coalition together by wednesday's deadline. pretty unusual for a president to intervene in another company's politics that way. he can't restrain himself. he wants to tell us what he's thinking about any topic that seems to come up. that's sort of the way he operates. >> another country's politics he's familiar, welcome to gene. biden, like so many of the democrats running, the message delivery was as much a part of the message as anything. he waited to respond, responded forcefully and said with all the dignity of the office. i have doubts whether that's going to be enough. i think at some point you have to call out -- >> you know, i don't fault that response. i think that's the correct response. i share your question about whether in the end that's going to be the way to go up against
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donald trump, if, indeed, joe biden ends up being the candidate to go against donald trump. anyone is going to have to deal with what is the method that's fog to be effective. do you try to respond in kind? do you stick to the high road as opposed to the low road. so those are questions. but given this instance, i think that was the correct and proper way to respond. >> karine, part of his point was this is not how we do things. i think to peter's point, donald trump has successfully sort of reframed how we do things. i just wonder if there's some way to bifurcate the response where you have surrogates making a sharper, quicker point and you wait until the president -- >> it's a really good question you're asking, because even for us in the movement, we're exhausted. we don't even know what to do. the man is attacking marginalized communities constantly saying things to debase the office. you just are put in a situation
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of how much fight do we have to continue to do. it is a question for whoever is a nominee for the democratic party. do you go, like you said, do you stand above the fray and fight in that way, or do you take it to where he is? we saw with 17 republican candidates, that did not go well with them, at least with marco rubio and others. it is going to have to be to talk about the issues and energize the base. that's what democrats are going to have to do. we saw that in 2018 and it worked. >> i did see one thing over the weekend. i saw figures that showed engagement. >> i saw that, too. >> of his tweets have gone down. >> people are tired. >> peter baker, robert costa, to you and your colleagues on this trip, unbelievable reporting from both your papers. thank you for it. frank figliuzzi, thank you for spending time with us. when we come back as joe biden faces off against the president today, it may feel like the general election is under way. biden isn't taking anything for granted as he preps for his
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first town hall this afternoon and proceeds with caution to avoid the pitfalls of being the front-runner. also ahead, the magic of a moment, how the 2020 democrats are moving up in the polls by maximizing their media exposure. the media primary within the primary. the lone republican calling for donald trump's impeachment over mueller findings today takes on attorney general barr. all those stories coming up. ba. all those stories coming up. slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery.
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from donald trump to the man he just can't stop thinking about. next hour in houston joe biden will hold the first town hall of
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his 2020 candidacy. he does so as the clear front-runner in a crowded democratic primary. ahead by 17 points. that's according to the latest polling averages. but for biden, is there a potential cost in terms of momentum and grassroots enthusiasm to playing it safe and minimizing risk as his party's front-runner. joining our conversation mark leibovich, chief national coordinator for new york magazine and msnbc contributor. first let's go to houston where msnbc's garrett haake is right now. what's the goal today, is he going to talk with trump back and forth or move on to the minds of the people in the democratic base? >> i think we might here a little about this back and forth with donald trump but the centerpiece we'll see from joe biden is rolling out his public education plan. the campaign has released top lines from it. we're told he'll go into greater depth. it's a town hall event but a town hall event with union
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teachers. education top of mind. of course the vice president's wife is a teacher. this is one of those issues that's been close to him for him. what i've seen so far will look similar to what we've seen from other democratic candidates with one notably difference very in line with the joe biden brand. that's a focus on making sure students go from high school to career ready and not just college ready. it fits into the kind of blue-collar joe biden messaging we have seen so much for him. frankly for me, i'm somebody who loves town halls. i think seeing candidates take questions from actual voting human beings is such a great service. seeing that from joe biden today i think will be very instructive to see where he's at as he's getting into being the guy, the front-runner, taking questions -- unscreened questions from regular voters. >> garrett, it's such a good point, you brought me right back in town when john mccain got a question from one of his supporters in michigan about whether president obama was a
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muslim, saying she's afraid of him. the forum. what's that look like for the biden campaign. are they eager to have joe biden moments or anxious because of their big lead in the polls? >> i think they are confident in their guy being their guy. the thing about joe biden we know who he is. he's been in the public 40 years. he doesn't need viral moments as much as other candidates do. he does need to reconnect a little bit. he needs to establish himself as a figure separate from barack obama. i make a point, trying to talk to voters around events. what i hear from joe biden at a coffee shop this morning, other candidate events, he is a known commodity but they want to see what he's like as the guy and not as barack obama's number two. there is some reticence there to see a guy they are used to as joe biden the number two in that number one slot. so i don't know that he needs a
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viral moment, but he needs to consistently show he can be presidential on his own. we'll start to see some of that as he continues to ramp up ahead of the first debate, which i think is the thing all these candidates are looking at now. how can you be maximally prepared for the first debate, the moment most of america starts to tune do this sort of thing. >> garrett, don't go anywhere. jump in if we head in the wrong direction in terms of what you're hearing from the voters. i want to bring karine in. you're nodding in a lot of this. >> i think garrett brought salient points to the conversation, which is voters want to see the candidate on the stump. they want to be able to ask him questions. he's in houston, texas, today but we're talking about the four early states who are used to having direct access to the presidential candidates. he can't outrun a general election campaign. he cannot do that. he needs to be out there on the stump taking questions, putting out policies. i'm glad he's putting out an education policy today. he needs to do that.
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his campaign needs to put him out more, not less. >> is this something they are inclined to do? >> i would hope so. i would say this. yes, he's a known entity. yes, he's the joe biden everyone has seen for decades on the national stage. as a presidential candidate he's been a monumental failure. he's run extremely unsuccessfully twice. in 1987, didn't make it to 1988 and 2008, barely got to -- i don't think he got to new hampshire in either case. so yeah, he has a lot of work to do. i will say this, i was in new hampshire a few weeks ago. he didn't do a town meeting but did one event at a pizza place where he took questions and a house party where he took questions. he looked out of practice. i talked to voters afterwards. he rambled quite a bit, went from here to here to here, which is a biden phenomena. >> whoever is running will be against donald trump who can't stay off his phone and on topic.
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>> no doubt. >> this is something i've observed talking to republicans, i think democrats will hold their nominee to a different standard. >> the notion joe biden is a safe pick for democrats goes to the assumption that this is going to come down to the lesser of two september agaogenarians. there's let's play safe governs success in early polls. >> he has had early success in the polls. >> way ahead in the polls. way ahead. >> everybody began to say he needs to get out there more and needs to do this and that. he kept rising in the polls. if i'm running the biden campaign, i'm saying i think i'm doing okay right now. and so yes, he's got to start doing town halls. he'll do the first one today and we'll see how he does.
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he'll be joe biden. i don't know that you can compare the sort of loose ends quality of joe biden versus ultimater ca utter chaos of donald trump. there's a contrast there, we'll see. >> karine i want to ask you about biden facing, start point of interaction with voters we'll see today. headlines about smaller crowds others are getting. i invite garrett to jump in about anything he's seen and coverage how they are not putting him out there all day every day. i don't know if they are pacing themselves. sometimes if you don't make it, you regret not leaving it all on the field. >> you said it perfectly, leaving it on the field. this is it. this is game time. we're talking about a presidential election. i would tell the biden campaign
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less crowds is not a good thing. you want the energy. if you are running as the front-runner, it is good to have a crowd to give you that energy. i just really disagree -- i know what they are doing. we talked about it. they are trying to control him. he's known for having gaffes. he's 76 years old. he probably is a little tired. you can't blame him for that. i think you really -- you have to fight -- if you're wanting to be the nominee and you're the front-runner, you have to fight for it. i think the base wants to see that. again, we're talking about iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada, these are folks that are accustomed to seeing candidates all the time. they go to multiple rallies, multiple town halls and they want to ask their questions. sometimes they don't have one candidate right now, they have three of them. then they decide as it gets closer and closer. i think that's a mistake they are making. >> garrett, let me do this, if i were on the campaign, my response to this sort of criticism would be, hey, we're
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just getting started, you're going to see plenty of joe biden and pick up the pace as the race intensifies. is that too much or the view inside the campaign? >> no. i think you're on the right track here. the biden campaign feels confident it's getting the message where it needs to be gotten. they are in the lead. they raised more money than anybody else in the first 24 hours. they are raising more money than anybody else most likely now. by what metric do you want to measure them by. the crowd thing, i think we have a tendency to fight the last war, look back on what we missed last time. i remember thinking in trump campaign big crowds didn't matter mitt romney had big crowds, too. guess what, it did matter. we're all thinking about crowd size. that's the way donald trump keeps score. that doesn't mean we have to keep score. people that come to a rally isn't analog to people who come into the booth and vote, especially in early states as people point out. they expect to meet these
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candidates, ask them questions face-to-face. a town hall meeting or house party with 20 or 30 people can be just as effective as a big rally if you're able to make that personal connection in a state where you're talking much smaller group of people voting. i do think the crowd thing is notable but i don't think it's the only way or primary way we keep score at this point. >> all right, garrett. your washington for being so on the mark today is we're going to keep you around if you can stay with us for another block. will you stay? >> you bet. >> all right. after the break, finding momentum in media moments. how the 2020 democrats are beating the president at his own game by using television to make their case. online equity trades? uh, i'll look into it. (phone rings) lisa jones! lisa: (on phone) hey carl, what are you charging me for online equity trades? (nervous chuckle) lisa: and do i get my fees back if i'm not happy? like a satisfaction guarantee? ugh. schwab! lisa: oh right, i'm calling schwab. thanks, carl! wait, lisa! lisa...
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cast. we have a month until the first debate right here on msnbc.
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while much of the attention bandwidth is dedicated to front-runner joe biden other candidates are hard at work trying to manufacture their moment and having a lot of success, i might add. while there are 1,000 ways to do that, "new york times" points out it's a different game than it used to be. quote, getting air time has been key to winning decades. in 2019 as democrats each argue, they are the ones who can cancel a tv star president's 24 hour reality show, a meta aspect to each appearance. you do media in part to prove you can use media to win. marco, we were talking about this. i actually think this is one of the equalizers. joe biden doesn't do a lot of interviews. pete buttigieg is making news almost on a daily basis. kamala harris's questioning of attorney general barr is something we refer back to as we go down the rabbit hole. >> one piece of this that might
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be overlooked, one thing to get attention, have a media moment, another to do it in a way that serves your message. you mentioned pete buttigieg who has been deft not just in stepping out and taking on donald trump but his message as next generation of voters. alfred e. newman thing. i had to google -- i'm not sure that was his best moment. he had time to do this when he could have been talking about his trade deal to china. privated to taking him on and making a broader point about something donald trump apparently is failing at in pete buttigieg's mind. a two-part process, the second part gets overlooked. >> you have an impact, you do a deep dive. you profile -- >> i have a huge impact. >> when you head out, who is on your radar. who do you want to report out
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and why? >> a lot depends on -- a lot is just logistics. i was in iowa two weeks ago. pete buttigieg was in minneapolis,north. elizabeth warren was here, sanders, klobuchar, those are people i saw. biden in new hampshire two weeks later. it was easy to catch him. some lodge esks, some who is out at a given time. part is who is breaking through. i'm obviously much more interested in people who -- joe biden, obviously and bernie sanders two front-runners i'm going to be more inclined to see but there has to be a reason. again, i hate to make the media the test case for what is interesting and what voters they'd to worry about, but a lot of it is just -- >> i'm not talking about the media as having any importance because i worked on campaigns. sometimes the media is helping get your message out and sometimes against you. one of the vehicles. the democratic candidates are using us, some to more effect than others.
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elizabeth warren -- there was a question, distorted on the right, where is the disconnect. if you're a good candidate and covering events, snarky, elizabeth warren the delta between what she's doing as a candidate. she's put out more policy than the trump administration in two years. she's actually a very good candidate. she's one of the smoothest messengers on the trail and she doesn't get a ton of press. not bad press but not enough press for that standing. >> she's starting to move up in the polls. i think it's because she has those tons of policies. she's actually giving voters what they want, talking about issues, how she's going to make their lives better. it's amazing to watch. you see her connecting with the crowd. she's kind of a big force on stage. she really connects. that's part of what garrett is saying. connecting with the crowd, being out there, that retail poll six. she's to add we're talking about media and where we were. eleven years ago, we have to remember twitter in april of 2008 had just started. >> i was on the campaign and i
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didn't have twitter. >> yeah. so the point i'm making is that now you have these social media platforms, plus the retail politics. then if you add policy to that, there's ways to connect with voters. there's ways to get yourself out there, because we are in a different place in 2019. >> garrett, who is doing this the best? who is using us to their greatest advantage at this moment? i'm just curious. >> it's tough to say. i think mayor pete has done a very good job of using speaker views, town halls to make his moment. he's made himself accessible and brings things to the fore every time he does this. elizabeth warren has exceeded expectations. this is about exceeding expectations whatever they may be. that's part of the reason beto o'rourke has struggled here. he was so good with those viral moments. the reason most of the country learned beto o'rourke's name was the moment about the kneeling nfl players. that viral moment was so good he
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used it to raise money and so did ted cruz. both sides paid attention to for their reasons. he's been unable to get that lightning back in the bottle, i think because people expect him to be able to do it. the challenge is greater. there are a couple of candidates who have done a reasonably good job. i haven't seen the one breakout moment. if you're looking for that, maybe we should look for people at the 1 and 2% mark. those are the people when it happens, it will catch our attention in the way mayor pete did. he was so unknown leading up to that cnn town hall. >> i agree with that. i think amazing. this is what i was trying to articulate. it could be an equalizer, not at the top of the poll. there are 23. you have a moment, it's worth examining why that happened. >> look, moments are important. moments that go viral are more important. i would argue elizabeth warren is kind of doing it the
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old-fashioned way. policy after policy after policy, got a bigger operation in iowa than other candidates, a lot of boots on the ground. you know, she's doing the retail thing. she's meeting and moving up steadily in the polls. you know, it wouldn't surprise me that maybe a woman candidate would have to work harder. >> you don't say. >> i'm just guessing here. but also that's -- it seems true to her, true to who she is. >> i think people might overstate a little bit the degree people rewarding elizabeth warren for all the plans she has and issue papers. the two big breakthroughs have been impeachment, which is a big issue, not a small -- >> she was the first. >> she was the first. she did it in a very not opportunistic way. she talked about what it was like to read the mueller report. the other thing for her -- what was it. it was -- >> another news moment. >> there was another news
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moment. fox. didn't go on fox. look, you could argue strategically one way or the other but it gained her a lot of goodwill with the base. >> can i argue with the people she was really, really great there. >> all right. garrett, thank you for spending some time for us. pop back in if any news happens. we want to turn it into a moment, right? we want to see what happens with voters. not turn into, that will be distorted. kamala harris with lawrence on msnbc. i know where i'll be. when we come back, the one republican who has called for donald trump's impeachment sets his sights on attorney general william barr for deliberately misleading the public about the mueller report. that story next. the public abo mueller report that story next. oh! oh!
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we had people at the highest levels of our law enforcement in
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this nation saying they were going to stop a duly elected president of the united states. that could be treason. >> that was liz cheney third highest prp in the house, dangerous accusation of a failed coup. only one member of trump's own party has come out publicly against him, congressman amash from michigan. a few weeks ago he said the president engaged in impeachable conduct. today he set his sights on bill barr in a tweet. attorney general barr has deliberately misrepresented key aspects of mueller's report and decisions in the investigation. he ends with this. barr has so far successfully used his position to sell the president's false narrative to the american people. this will continue if those who have read the report did not start pushing back on his misrepresentations and share the truth. joining our conversation, former
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chief spokesman department of justice matt miller back from parts unknown. i want to get you on all of that. first of all, liz cheney worked at the state department. she knows a coup. calling fbi and justice department people who engaged in a coup is really dangerous stuff. >> really dangerous. in some ways liz cheney has always been there way. what's changed is the republican party. when i was at the justice department liz cheney led a campaign attacking public officials at the justice department calling them al qaeda 7 for representing gitmo detainees in prior practice ignoring that's one of the greatest traditions of the american legal practice, everyone deserves representation. eventually lindsey graham stood up and said she ought to knock it off because it's inappropriate. fast forward, there's no lindsey graham anymore. even lindsey graham isn't lindsey graham. while liz cheney is there, the
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difference is the rest of the republican party is there. you have an attorney general who from inside the justice department is kind of leading the war on both the intelligence community and the people that work for them. >> justin amash, there's only attention to him both because he deserves create for being the one and it's such an indictment of the rest of the republican party. liz cheney included, for continues to lie on behalf of donald trump and attorney general barr. do you think the indictment of barr goes anywhere, carries anymore weight coming from a republican? >> i would like to think so. to believe that, you would have to be ignoring the evidence of the last 2 1/2 years. this isn't new to this, slowly capture the mind share of the entire republican party. and it happened slowly for a while. you had members of congress -- this kind of thing -- this treason comments, remember, at the beginning of the beginni
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administration, trump would attack the justice department and you would see people in congress saying, i don't think that's appropriate. even republicans would do it. and they've changed where they're not being silent. you see republicans joining him and repeating the messages that he's launching. not just from outside the administration but now from inside the justice department as well. >> this is all true. i can't make you feel better. this is the reality we've been living through for the last 2 1/2 years. the keyword to the conversation is something he said two weeks ago. he's still out there alone. it's the fact that this is not where his party is, the fact that liz cheney wants to move up the lanranks of leadership is what's driving all of this. >> behind it are real changes to the administration of justice and intelligence gathering. what's so reckless about what liz cheney is doing, is through
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her own career, she knows better. your paper had a piece over the weekend about barr serving as the driving force and securing the power to declassify government secrets. what barr has done is professionalized sort of the debasement of law enforcement. >> i also -- part of me does wonder what -- and it doesn't matter. does wonder what dick cheney thinks of this. but he's an institutional in his own way. he took -- >> i don't think that means anything. i don't think it means anything. in the service of trump, they've forgotten all of that. >> it doesn't matter because he's not in office anymore and liz cheney is the one who's in office. you do wonder what is said privately. certainly within the intelligence communities. >> i think it's appropriate that we're talking about liz cheney and bill barr within the same breath.
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dick cheney is the one that bill barr reminds me the most of. >> me too. someone who doesn't give a bleep about anything and someone who sees no limits to any power of the -- >> and is ruthlessly competent in exercising his agenda. that's the difference. he shares both ill intent and the ability to get things done. >> with a dangerous kicker. he sees the world in the delusional way sean hannity does. jeff sessions didn't fall as far down the rabbit hole as barr has. >> he was down different rabbit holes. >> on immigration. but not of the dismantling of the intelligence community. >> not that one. he stayed out of that rabbit hole. immigration and replacement and
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all that sort of crazy stuff. but you're right. the difference is that barr knows what he's doing and she's systemic and he's efficient and gets things done. that's scary. >> what's the why? why is he doing it? >> i don't know. it's got to be his world view. what's in it for him? i don't know what's in it for barr unless this is something he believes. >> i agree. i think he truly believes what he's putting out there and he -- >> which makes him scarier with rudy. >> he's had this position before. he knows how it works. he put out that 19-page memo interviewing for the job. he believes that a president should not be indicted while in office or for obstruction of justice or anything else and he's taking it to another level by going after political folks that donald trump doesn't like and that's the other scarier part. there is is a rabbit hole that he's going down, going down and
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it doesn't matter in the institution of the doj kind of out of the window. and that's what makes him scary. >> there is a place where barr being a disgrace might bother barr and that's in conservative legal circles. the ted olsens of the world must find him gross for the things he's doing. the george conways find him really gross. is he someone who doesn't care about being elegant. >> no one sort of rallies to their own like the conservative legal establishment. look what they did around brett kavanaugh. they came out of the woodwork to defend him. that's happened with bill barr. you see a chuck cooper who will be out defending barr. so he gets a little bit of that because he's been a member of that establishment for so long. this is the way that donald
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trump has been mainstreamed within the republican party, all of those people can't to think, maybe i wouldn't go as far as bill barr, but at the end of the day we have to win and we have to beat the democrats, and so they justify this type of thing. >> deals with the devil. that's what they've all made. we're going to sneak in a break. we' we'll be right back. u.s. equity trade. when you shop for your home at wayfair,
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if it's tuesday, it's the president's decision to side with the north korean dictator over our allies an unpatriotic act. now biden is firing back. we're going to hear from him ahead. one of the few republicans to speak out against the president is holding a town hall this hour. we're expecting fireworks there and we'll bring them to you live. if it's tuesday, it's "meet the press daily". justic justin amash fired off a series of tweets criticizing bill barr, accusing the attorney general of misrepresenting key aspects of the report and using his position to sell the president's false narrative to the american people.


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