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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  July 17, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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the house set to vote on impeachment later this afternoon. congressman al green who introduced the articles says it's a chance to, quote, punish the president after his attacks on the four progressive congress women of color. house speaker nancy pelosi who does not support impeachment defended the squad just last hour while ba moaning last night's near party line vote on a resolution condemning the president's language. >> when you say were you surprised, were you disappointed? my expectations are not great, but you always hope that they might do the right thing and say that that language that the president used was not -- was beneath the dignity of the president, beneath the dignity of the people he was criticizing. >> for his part president trump is gearing up for a reelection rally tonight in north carolina and he's already hinted that he intends to keep the feud alive, writing on twitter today that he will, quote, talk about people who love and hate our country
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during this speech. and the president may have given us a preview of his line of attack this morning, tweeting out a lengthy quote from republican senator john kennedy calling the democratic women cranks and whack jobs and insulting their intelligence. but why is the president so eager to breathe new life into a couldn't certificates sri that many critics including some members of his own party have called racist? well, it may actually be part of his campaign strategy. as one of my next guests writes, quote, with three days of attacks on four liberal minority freshmen congress women president trump and the republicans have sent the clearest signal yet that their approach to 2020 will be a racially divisive reprise of the strategy that helped mr. trump narrowly capture the white house in 2016. our big question today is can president trump's reinvigorated strategy of racial resentment win him a second term in the white house. joining me mark murray, nbc news
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national political reporter monica alba, "new york times" white house correspondent annie carney and wanda summers. great to have all of you here. annie, we mentioned your article and i thought this also from your article was particularly fascinating and important so i'm going to quote it. brad parscall has been telling people that it's very hard to persuade voters in the current hyper partisan political landscape. mr. trump's reelection strategy instead is to solidify his base and increase turnout. how do these attacks play into that strategy? >> these attacks do help him. these attacks do resonate with the base. i think trump is on to something when he says people like it. people like it. the people he is referring to are his hard score supporters, what brad parscale -- >> white, not college educated, often male. >> that's right.
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that's right. and what brad parscale is saying there is that his theory of the case for 2020 is that there is not a lot of voters out there left who don't have a hardened view of what donald trump is and who he is and so the best way to win is to get big turnout of their supporters in states like wisconsin, pennsylvania and florida and not necessarily to win -- persuade or win over large swaths of new voters. >> i was going to say, mark, that's always been true, it's always been true especially when you come down to the end if you talk to any of the internal pollsters as i did during my time at the white house, the actual number of people who are persuadable are so very small. even looking at that, does the strategy hold water? can the president increase turnout among his base enough given what we've seen at the polls and the losses that he has taken? >> chris, it is possible that he's able to grow the republican base and at least that pro-trump
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base, but you even look at our brand-new nbc "wall street journal" poll that came out over the weekend and his job approval rating is almost as high as you could get it, where it's 89% among republicans. just 7% among democrats. our latest poll had trump at 48% among independents. that's a higher mark where we've seen, it's usually been in the mid 30s. while i do believe overall that our modern politics is about base strategy versus base strategy, there still is a sliver of the middle of the electorate that does decide elections, in i russell westbrook between 5% and 10% could be in that hard middle and a lot of times and before president trump where you ended up having president barack obama, president george w. bush, their focus had always kind of been on the middle of the electorate knowing that that's actually what wins and loses election. for trump it's going to be a little bit harder given that he only won 46% of the popular vote in 2016, that meant that 54% voted for someone else. for him to be able to have that base strategy he might be able
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to do it again, but, boy, it's going to be kind of like pulling an inside straight once again like he did in 2016. >> annie, you quote a political scientist at uk davis, he told you, the president and the republican national committee know if you prime attitudes toward democrats you are more likely to win their votes. it's a very effective strategy. is that what's at play here? >> one thing i want to just stress here is that this is a little bit of a reverse engineered strategy. the campaign did not know that he was going to tweet what he tweeted about you can go back to where you came from, that he tweeted on sunday that has led to this four-day news cycle about us versus them and people who hate our country. they are saying that this campaign like 2016 will be driven by the president's instincts and so they are now looking at this and saying there is a political upside to this strategy that he started, but they didn't -- there wasn't a strategy to have him start this
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fight. they are now looking at a fight that -- >> but the sentiment is not necessarily different. i mean, it's not shocking to anyone who has followed him and from the very beginning of his last campaign he's calling mexicans rapists. so, i mean, maybe that it wasn't plotted in the way you would prepare a speech, but they can't be stunned by the fact that he would say something like this. >> there's very little he can say that can stun people who know -- who work for him at this point. no, there is a through line of his attacks from the last election to here that he -- the racial lines, the cultural wars, these have been the meat and potatoes of his presidency. >> so let's go back, mark, then, to thoindependent voters you tad about. >> the risks are that you end up alienating them. that's what we saw in the 2018 midterm elections and from the moment of the president's inauguration where by and large
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they have been with the democratic base. we ended up seeing democrats win independent voters in the 2018 elections, saw democrats win over moderate votes. the path to success for democrats is pretty simple that they keep enthusiasm at equal or a little bit more enthused going into 2020 and also that they continue to win over the middle of the electorate. this is where it kind of gets into the strategy or as annie ended up putting it the reverse strategy here where all of a sudden if they can try to elevate the alexandria ocasio-cortezs, the squad, whose numbers aren't as popular as a generic democrat, particularly in parts of the midwest of the country and the places that will be battle ground states that maybe they try to alienate the middle of the electorate but i would argue we've actually been talking about the president and his rhetoric and his remarks a whole lot more than the squad and their favorable numbers over the last few days. >> but you can bet that tonight he's going to go -- and the argument that he's going to make, they are way too liberal, he will start using socialism,
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he will start talking about how dangerous that is for our country and he's doing it at a time when there's this brand-new ugov poll that the squad is mostly under water nationally, you referred to that although frankly politicians of both parties in general are not particularly popular, but can the white house really bank on these women being unpopular in places like the rust belt to move their agenda forward? >> chris, particularly when less than two weeks from now we will be focused on the next presidential debate on the democratic side where those presidential candidates and not the squad will be taking center stage. obviously the democratic nominee will be the person who will be in the spotlight and the center of the president's attention come next year. but i do think overall this is -- if there was one strategy in 2016 that president trump and his campaign wanted to do and what we will probably see again is just muddy it up, have it as ugly of a race as possible, socialism, the squad, everyone,
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throw everything against the wall and to hope that that depresses kind of democratic turnout. >> so what the president seems to want to do is paint all the democrats with this broad brush as mark just referenced, you know, liberal, socialism, use all those kinds of words that he keeps using. can it work? should democrats be worried? >> i think there is some concern among democrats and you see this fight over centralism versus progressivism. i think the question is, though, whether or not he can sustain those attacks. i think it's something to mark's point that we're likely to hear him reference tonight, but whether or not he will actually be able to effectively do that when you have a field that is so large and diverse, it includes folks likes former vice president biden, senator michael bennet of colorado and folks like bernie sanders who was just on your air and senator elizabeth warren. the field is so diverse i think it could be difficult for him to portray them all as so far left and so far extreme like this group of young progressive
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members of congress, it will be curious to see whether or not this is a message that resonates with independents. >> and how they respond, all of them have responded to it and we will hear a lot more about that. i want to play in particular, we saw the members of the squad on morning television this morning and here is how ayanna pressley responded to what the president had to say. >> we can talk about and spin out on -- about hateful words, which are predictable prompt by the occupant of this white house and i call him that not because i don't have respect for the oval office. >> but it's not that you don't have respect for the oval office, you call the president of the united states the occupant. >> because he is only occupying the space. he does not embody the principles, the responsibility, the grace, the integrity of a true president and so for that
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reason i'm not dis honoring the office, he does, every day. >> and i guess as we talk to mark about, you know, whether or not there is a down side to this, i wonder, does this energize the base even more or how much more can democratic voters or even independent voters who are worried about what they hear coming out of this white house be energized to get out there and vote, to make donations, to volunteer for campaigns? >> sure. so one of the things i hear that's really interesting when i spend time on the road covering the democratic presidential field is there is kind of two camps, there are folks who want to see someone who is going to punch back at this president, they see him as a threat to democracy, they are very concerned about the future of this country and then there are folks who don't want to see a candidate who is going to really get down in the mud with him. they want that high-minded rhetoric that talks about the values of this country we are rather than who we are against. what i heard from congressman presley's comments is essentially an argument that this is not who we are, these
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are not our values and it's not similar from what we're hearing from democrats on the campaign trail. >> we mentioned that the president is going out tonight for one of his reelect rallies. moni monica, what are trump's base saying about these attacks? >> we've actually talked to people who have been lined up here since the early morning hours and the resounding message is the same, these supporters are not phased or bothered at all by the president's latest attacks on the four congress women of color. in fact, if anything, they're energized by it. this takes me back to something we saw repeatedly in 2016 and in the year since. the president is sort of at his best and strongest when he has a clear enemy or foil and we certainly see that on display in rallies and expect to do that later tonight. take a listen to what one of his supporters said in terms of how these jabs at the congress women and the so-called squad actually will be a campaign move going forward. >> i think it is actually a strategy for him. i do think he's trying to make
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those four the face of the democratic party because their polling numbers are so low, i think he thinks if he can show the every day american that this is the new face of the democratic party that it will be not good for them in a way. >> reporter: so campaign officials tell me to expect that kind of strategy to be on full display tonight and it's interesting because if you remember, chris, today was originally supposed to be mueller testimony day. >> right. >> reporter: so the campaign planned this rally as counter program, but when those plans changed so, too, did the focus, but of course that new kind of reverse strategy that annie refers to came over the weekend. this presented a perfect and clear new strategy for tonight that we can expect to see, chris. of course, all of that starting with those tweets over the weekend and everybody unsuspecting that it would lead us to this point for wednesday night. >> i think whatever the day there's always something in the donald trump news cycle that he can talk about if he happens to have a rally going on. monica alba, thank you for being out there.
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annie, want na, mark, always good to see you as well. in just a couple hours bernie sanders will deepen the divide between progressives and moderates in the 2020 field by renewing his medicare for all plan as joe biden makes the case for beefing up obamacare. and we will take you inside the new way for these democratic candidates to raise money. not through big donors but dollar by dollar online. right after this break nbc news digs through the archives, uncovering something about the president and a man he says he was never a fan of. accused child sex predator jeffrey epstein. accused child sex predator jeffrey epstein. is just a button. ♪ that a speaker is just a speaker. ♪ or - that the journey can't be the destination. most people haven't driven a lincoln. discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. right now, get 0% apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles
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well, i knew him like everybody in palm beach knew him. i mean, people in baum beach knew him. he was a fixture in palm beach. i had a falling out with him a long time ago, i don't think i've spoken to him for 15 years. i wasn't a fan. >> president trump says he was never a fan of accused child sex predator jeffrey epstein but nbc news has en covered archived video that shows the two men chumming it up at mar-a-lago in 1992, years before epstein was first accused of paying teen girls for sex acts. in the video you see trump greet epstein and two others ushering them into a party. that's where trump appears to talk to epstein about his female guest, seemingly saying, look at her, she's hot. the video shows trump surrounded by women, one of whom he slaps on the butt after taking his moves to the dance floor.
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well, tomorrow is a critical day for the wealthy finance ear. the judge set to rule on whether to grant bail after epstein's lawyer says his client is willing to put up as much as $100 million. he has pleaded not guilty to current charges. joining me is stephanie gosk. if the clip underscores anything that epstein has or had friends in high places, right, he was in high places. what else does it tell us? >> he skernl was. he was running with that social set, upper east siders, west palm beach, it's a fairly small circle, they were socializing together. we knew donald trump had some kind of social relationship with jeffrey epstein. he has characterized it in conflicting ways, however. in back in 2002 he told new york magazine that epstein was, quote, a terrific guy. 2008, fast forward, jeffrey epstein bleeds guilty to
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prostitution charges involving minors in florida and then eventually would be prosecuted, indicted here in new york city on sex trafficking charges and when asked about it last week, president trump said he was not a fan of jeffrey epstein and there had been a falling out. we have tried to pursue what that falling out was and we haven't gotten any answers from the white house. >> the bail hearing, though, on this which sets up tomorrow was fascinating. epstein's # $7 million town has in manhattan, there was a locked safe containing what prosecutors said was piles of cash, some diamonds, an expired passport dating back in the 1980s featuring a different name and a different country. what do we know about that. >> well, it was one of the most interesting moments in that bail hearing from monday. everyone raised an eyebrow, what was this all about. we didn't know what country it was from and we didn't know why he would have had it. the federal prosecutors
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specifically asked the defense team why he had this passport and they responded last night in a file that said the passport was issued from austria and that it was being used because epstein had concerns about traveling to the middle east because he was a wealthy practicing jewish man and was afraid he would be kidnapped by terrorists. >> so he might be able to use that for something -- >> for his security was the argument. exactly shoo cynthia, the federal judge overseeing epstein's case is expected to announce tomorrow whether he can get bail and remain on house arrest during his trial. prosecutors say many, many photographs of young-looking girls were found in the safe and that the prosecutors have identified at least one person among them who claims to be a victim. you also had the emotional testimony of two alleged victims. what's likely, though, ultimately to be key in this bail decision? >> well, the first thing to know
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is in this sex trafficking statute the rule is no bail. so there is a rebuttable presumption, which is -- which means if the defense can come up with a set of conditions that would protect the community and make sure he is not a flight risk, they have the burden, and they could rebut the presumption. but recognize the judge starts out saying probably he should stay in jail. and then when you look at all the other factors, some of which you have mentioned, he's a flight risk, he's rich, he has this -- has the passport, he's got the diamonds which would suggest he's ready to go. he has this staff of people who have been helping him do things illegally for years. he has planes -- >> he'll put up $100 million. >> okay. well, we don't sell justice that way. so i don't think that matters one bit. because, for instance, what he's saying he's going to put up his $77 million place in new york. guess what, the government is
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going to take that $77 million place in new york anyway when this case is over. that's going to end up being forfeited i predict. so that $77 million place doesn't even matter to the government. what basically he's saying is, look, i'm really a rich guy and would like to live like a rich guy. let me see how much i can pay you so i can stay living in a gilded cage. that is not an argument that is going to go anywhere with the court. more than that, this is a judge that has been very sensitive to that type of argument. >> it is going to be an interesting day in court tomorrow. thanks to boldt of you. next, back to the future. bernie sanders set to revive his key 2016 issue today medicare for all. but is this the debate democrats want to have ahead of 2020?
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so here is the headline from our political team today, healthcare wars. at the center of this critical issue for democratic voters this afternoon is senator bernie sanders. he's just a few hours away from giving a full speech devoted entirely to his medicare for all plan. it comes as his poll numbers are dropping and he needs to reclaim the role of leading progressive in the race. just last hour sanders gave a preview of that speech to my
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colleague, ali velshi. >> virtually every study out there shows that medicare for all will cover all of the people in our country at less cost than the current dysfunctional system. at the end of the day we have got to do as a nation what every other major country on earth is doing, guarantee healthcare to every man, woman and child as a right. the current system is not to provide quality care to all, it is to make billions in profit for the insurance companies and the drug companies and that is exactly what they are doing. >> sanders' address is coming two days after binder released his plan to keep the obamacare and build on president obama's central achievement. once a central issue in his 2016 primary race with hillary clinton this battle of healthcare with biden is something sanders wants. this is binden warning a crowd
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about medicare for all. >> how many of you like your employer based healthcare. if i come along and say you can't have it anymore. that's what medicare for all does. you cannot have it, period. number one. there is a hiatus spot in between, by the way, how long it's going to take. >> sanders accused the front runner of spreading lies straight out of the republican playbook. here is two critical conditions why this matters, first, polls consistently show healthcare is a top issue for democrats and second medicare for all could be a risky strategy. a july cnn poll shows 30% of krths support a plan that would replace private health insurance. joining me is nbc news national political shorper shaquille brewster. this is not a new fight for bernie sanders although he has a few elements we are going to hear about where you are. he says on one hand it's less cost, on the other hand he admits it could cost 30 to 40 trillion dollars and force a middle class tax increase. how does he make that argument?
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>> reporter: chris, i will keep this quick because there is a fire alarm going on, i believe we do have to leave. senator sanders there is signage that says no copay, no deductible and no premium. he will make the case that this is a time to focus on his medicare for all program and healthcare for all. he wants to radically and fundamentally change the healthcare system. that's why he's pushing back on some of the democratic candidates who are saying that his plan would be a little bit too disruptive. he's saying that is the point here, he wants to fire back and go after these health insurance companies. chris, i'm going to have to toss back to you. >> shaq, you can. get out of there. joining me former senior advisor to hillary clinton's campaign and msnbc contributor adrian elrod and former strategist for bernie sanders's campaign mark long aback. let me ask you the question that i just asked to shaq before he got booted out of there because of a fire alarm. how does sanders make a case for something that expensive and
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that forces taxes to go up? >> first let me just be clear, i don't speak for bernie sanders in this campaign, but i think he makes a clear case that, you know, the cost would be shifted. taxes are going to go up but your insurance premiums will be eliminated. so the overall cost there is going to be -- is going to be lower under his system, he argues, than it would be under the current system. so, you know, it's a clear tradeoff between huge insurance premiums that we all have and they continue to go up every year and the need for taxes to replace and pay for the health insurance. >> i want to play a moment from sanders' april town hall. it's relevant here. take a listen. >> how many people get their insurance from work, private insurance right now? how many get it from private insurance. okay. now, of those how many are willing to transition to what the senator says a government
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run system? >> so you saw overwhelming support there for medicare for all, but here is what our own nbc poll shows. 72% of democratic primary voters are in favor, adrian, of medicare for all, but other studies suggest that once you explain that it would force them to swap their current insurance plan for a public plan, the support drops dramatically. does that put the ball in biden's court to help people understand? this is complicated stuff. >> it's complicated stuff and you just hit the nail on the head that when you look at medicare for all in concept it's very popular. when people realize the next question becomes -- or how do you feel about losing your private health insurance what we saw in that sanders town hall in april was not exactly emblematic of how a lot of people are feeling across the board. to your point in your poll it shows when people realize i'm going to lose my actual health insurance, maybe not. i'm not sure that i want to actually go this far. this is going to be the ultimate defining issue in the democratic
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primary which is why you're seeing bernie sanders tess dropping in the polls, he needs this moment to remind voters where he stands on healthcare, that he has, you know, led the progressive fight on the fed care for all concept and of course joe biden was one of the architects of obamacare. a lot of americans don't want to lose their private insurance, they like obamacare and want to see it fixed not repeal. in that second debate you're really going to see this. >> between these two you have a pretty clear divide and add to that what i said earlier, which is every poll shows that healthcare is at or at least near the top of democratic voters' list of concerns. so can any candidate go much further without being clear, either i support medicare for all or i don't and here is the alternative? >> well, my view is the candidates who are doing the best inside of a democratic primary on this issue are biden, bernie and elizabeth warren because they've taken clear positions. i think, you know, biden's
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position, you know, reassociates him with one of the greatest accomplishments of the obama/biden administration which was the creation of the affordable care act so i think it's smart politics for him. obviously medicare for all has been at the heart of bernie's candidacy since 2015/16 in the first race so i think it's smart politics for him. i think warren has taken a clear position. those that i think will have problems is those who are flip-flopping and those who don't seem to have a clear position. one of the things at the beginning of your show you were talking about how democrats win on the healthcare issue. i think this is a good debate for the party and we ought to keep this debate on healthcare. remember, donald trump tried to eliminate the affordable care act. under his administration we have lost 7 -- 7 to 8 million americans have lost healthcare. he tried to eliminate a preexisting conditions. so i think we ought to take this battle to donald trump and i think it can be a winning issue for democrats. >> so we have seen, i think it's fair to say, adrian, senators
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like kamala harris, cory booker who maybe straddle the fence, have not been clear. there are people who say they support medicare for all but retain obamacare. don't they have to pick one or another? is this a strong issue for democrats but they have to have clarity on it? >> look, mark is exactly right on this. if you are wishy washy on this issue and we did see that with kamala harris a little bit after the first debate, if you can't quite articulate where you stand on this that's going to be a real problem. >> so will sanders' speech today put pressure on the other candidates to say where they stand on this? >> i think so and i think the debate will play out. you have some senators who cory booker and kamala harris who have put themselves on multiple bills to make it clear that we support medicare for all but we're also open to other options that address some of these issues and obamacare that need to be fixed. but this is going to be the ultimate issue and where it comes down will be, you know, who -- which electorate or candidate is going after and how does that electorate respond to these different plans.
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>> mark, always good to see you. adrian, you will come back with you in just a couple minutes. after the break, donors in the digital age. democrats breaking fundraising records, but how much will money matter in 2020? matter in 2020 so chantix can help you quit slow turkey.rkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives,
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organizations. the $420 million haul has already surpassed the $249 million that was collected this time last year during the midterms. act blue says it's a sign that democrats are excited about the upcoming elections and plugged into political issues at the forefront of those races. but with president trump and the rnc pulling in $108 million in the second quarter alone, will democrats be able to compete? back with me former clinton campaign senior advisor and msnbc contributor adrienne elrod, also former florida republican congressman and msnbc political contributor david jolly, both of whom know a bit about fundraising. do you see a direct line between the act blue numbers and democratic enthusiasiasm that cd translate to votes? >> absolutely. the democratic committee got criticized by mandating grassroots donor thresholds to qualify for the first debates but we are now actually seeing
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this pay off. not only are people giving grassroots donations in record numbers, but campaigns are also invoking strategies that pull in those grassroots donations. so you're seeing this energy on the filed combined with this strategic effort from the campaigns and it's paying off. >> we're seeing pictures, actually, the act blue offices, i was in there and, i mean, if some big issue comes up at the actually see in realtime how people respond to it. look, david, the good news for democrats is that they're raising a lot of money. the bad news is so is trump. half of democrats just about have already spent more money than they've taken in while the trump campaign and the joint if you had raising committees have $80 million on rand, the rnc has $43 million cash on hand that's according to the campaign. when you look at those two things what's your take away at this point? >> so, look, the small dollar donors and the act blue platform that is the bread and butter for democrats right now not just in terms of finances but also
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organization. to your point, chris, donald trump continues to lead democratic presidential candidates in fundraising, the rnc seems to continue to best the dnc, but in the small dollar pool the republicans are very, very far behind. so much so it's become a priority of donald trump, mitch mcconnell, the republican national committee, they have just launched a competitor to act blue, and the reason why is because when you get a small dollar donor to contribute two things happen, one, they are now invested in your campaign in terms of their support and their vote. it typically translates to a vote. it also translates to a repeat donor. what act blue has done which is remarkable is once a democrat hick leaning voter says i will give $5 or $10 they are back the next week or next month giving another $5 or $10 or supporting another candidate. last cycle $700 million came in for democrats, this cycle easily over a billion will come in for democrats. >> they make it easy.
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it is this one stop, one click shopping. adrienne, does a crowded field put democrats at a disadvantage? if trump and company have $123 million on hand cash right now, what are they going to have a year from now? >> well, you know, chris, first of all, it's important to keep in mind that democrats collectively who are running for president this last quarter and the second quarter raised a combined $119 million so that's more than trump, more than the rnc. if you are just looking at the collective aggregate number. but, yes, of course, chris, if you have 25 people i think maybe now 24 people with eric swalwell out of the race running for president, of course it certainly makes it more difficult to not just raise money but also to hold on to that money and bank money for a potential general election run if you are to be the candidate. and that is exactly why these small dollar donations are so important because as david just mentioned you can go back to these same donors time and time again and said keep giving me more money until you actually reach the max for them. i think that you're seeing all these grassroots donations coming toward democrats which
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will pay off in the general because the general election nominee for the democratic party unlike the republican party at this point, trump, the general election nominee for the democratic party will be able to go back to all of these donors who gave to other candidates who didn't make the nomination and say, hey, guys, max out to me as well or give me what you can and that's a huge, huge attribute for democrats. >> one of the fascinating things, david, to watch in this campaign is going to be how a more organized campaign on donald trump's side and all this money translate. >> sure. >> does it really change the equation or is it really all about what we're seeing right now, which is donald trump getting in front of those crowds? i mean, he obviously won in 2016 with far less money and resources, but how concerned should democrats be that this time around he has the donald trump persona, but he also has money and organization? >> yeah, donald trump's money does not need to be spent to promote donald trump. we talk about him every day. donald trump's money, unfortunately, i believe, is going to be spent to just
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destroy the negative reputation of whoever the democratic nominee s they have to drive up the democratic negative favorability rating of the nominee to a historic level, like we saw with hillary clinton. that's how trump will use his money. democrats, i think, are going to have to revisit an issue with this, though, their act blue -- or their requirements for small dollar donors around the debates and the issue is this, the amount of money that democratic candidates are having to spend per donor is reaching a level that is really costing democrats a lot of money. they're having to expend a lot of resources to get that next small -- that small dollar donor just to make the debate stage. it's a good thing, it's a good thing to bring in that many donors, but it is coming a at cost and i think democrats may revisit that. >> david jolly, always good to see you. adrienne, thank you for being here. appreciate it. it was an emotional day on capitol hill with testimony from families who lost loved ones aboard those doomed boeing 737 max 8 planes. you will hear from one man who
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lost his entire family as he makes his case for grounding the fleet for good. highway safety rates vehicles for safety, and some reach a level of top safety pick. but only a select few of the very safest vehicles are awarded a top safety pick plus. the highest level of safety possible. how many 2019 top safety pick plus-winning vehicles does your brand have? one. two. how about eight? subaru has more 2019 top safety pick plus awards than honda and toyota brands combined. there's safe, and then there's subaru safe.
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call now to learn more. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? since ethiopian airlines flight 302 took a sudden dive crashing
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and killing all 157 people on board. that was four months after the same kind of plane, a 737 max 8 crashed off the coast of indonesia killing 189 people. p. today the loved ones of the people who died in the ethiopian airlines crash took the fight for better aviation safety to capitol hill. one man who lost his entire family placed the blame squarely on boeing and the faa. >> boeing used this fallacy of following pilot error to avoid the grounding of the 737 max after the crash of lion air flight 610 on october 29th last year. that decision killed my family and 152 others in the crash flight 302 four months later. i miss them every minute of every day. >> joining me nbc news correspondent tom cask ello. and, tam, you sat down with that man who testified today. what does he think can be done
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to make sure that no one ever has to go through what he is going through, which is the loss of his entire family? >> his entire -- >> unbelievable. >> his three children, his wife, his mother-in-law. he admits he is gutted. he is just devastated. he's a canadian-kenyan. he came to washington because he believes congress must hold boeing and the faa responsible. he believes the plane should never fly again. and here is what he said. he talks about scrapping the plane. >> you know, for safety reasons, for the sake of human life safety. this event, they should get rid of that plane. now, i don't believe boeing would do that. and i don't believe they have any intention of doing that. >> so paul believes that in fact
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the max will fly again, and it remains grounded. but he thinks that given the severity of the deception he believes, deception, that boeing engaged in, in not grounding the plane after the first crash, he believes the faa must step in and ensure that it never flies again. that is highly unlikely. >> they are cancelling flights for the max until early november. but there is talk the plane may not fly again until at least next year? >> yeah. that's a real possibility and here's why. if boeing submits to the faa its plan software fix sometime in september, the faa is not going to fast-track this. they are under enormous pressure to be very thorough in their analysis. once they do say, okay, we'll certify the plane for flight, the airlines say they need 30 to 45 days to train their pilots again. so just the conservative timeline now puts this well into november to december before the plane starts flying again. that, therefore, is suggested
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that we may not see this plane fly over thanksgiving or christmas it. >> could well be into 2020. >> in the meantime, what are we expecting out of today's hearing? is there something that it could accomplish? >> more than anything, just applies pressure, more pressure to the faa. like i said, not to fast-track this approval. it really calls into question the faa authorization certification of the plane and whether the entire process needs to change. chris, i need to also tell you that as this hearing was beginning, boeing announced $50 million to the families in near-term financial aid, part of a $100 million fund set aside for the families and the communities affected. but the timing was not lost on people who noted that the hearing was just getting underway. >> yeah. or that they wouldn't want that money, they would like to have their family back. tom, thank you. 50 years ago today the world got its first humbling look at just how small we really are. one more thing next.
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plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪ apollo 11 anniversary coverage on msnbc is sponsored by the unexpected energy of exxon mobil. "one more thing" before we go. >> this week the country is celebrating 50 years since a dream became a reality in the final frontier. for the next few days, the washington monument will be turned into a life-sized rocket honoring the 50th anniversary of
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apollo 11. an american icon projected onto an american icon. neil armstrong's famous space suit polished and put back on display in virginia just in time for the anniversary. to be clear, yesterday marked 50 years since take-off. a go for launch that changed the course of history. aside from the sheer shock of being in space, what must've been going through the minds of these three brave americans? we went through nasa's logs, and it turns out a visual history was created on this day, too. because as neil armstrong, michael collins and buzz aldrin hurled through space, they sent back a picture to us from 128,000 miles away, the first picture of earth outside of earth. the first time we saw how small we really are. it was also the first time a color telecast came from a spacecraft. a breathtaking 36-minute transmission. you know where their ride went
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next. that one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind when armstrong put boot to the moon. and a quick note about the other history made during apollo's launch not by the astronauts but by the crew guiding them on the ground. specifically, one woman. the first-ever to be allowed inside the firing room where all personnel were locked in 30 minutes before apollo 11 blasted off. on the dozens of men in white shirts and skinny black ties, there she was, a 28-year-old instrumentation controller named joann morgan. morgan told vanity fair that she jokes what her biggest decision to wear that day was what to wear that would not stand out because she knew there was hostility from the men about having a woman on the launch team. she spends her time between florida and montana. instead, morgan said there was a
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time when she wanted to spend her golden years on mars. that wraps things up for this hour. i'm chris jansen in new york. >> and sometimes we're only learning about those interesting pieces of history later. all right. it's wednesday, july 17th. and house speaky nancy pelosi says the vote to condemn trump's racist tweets against four congresswomen of color were as gentle as it could be, considering what she called the interappropriateness and disgusting nature of what the president said. >> we were offended that he spoke in such a way about members of congress. but we're offended that he says that about people across the country all the time, "go back where you came from." and that, by definition, those words are racism. >> yesterday only four republican lawmakers joined ranks with all 235 democrats to vote in favor of condemning tr

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