thanks for being with us and picking it up in new york for velshi and ruhle. >> guess what my friend? i am right next to you. andrea mitchell. hello everyone. i am stephanie ruhle coming to you live from aspen, colorado for the tenth annual aspen security forum, a place where the most critical questions about the safety of our nation are answered by top level government leaders and experts. my panel just wrapped a few minutes ago and i am back with you for another hour of news. trust me, we got a lot to get to. coming up in the next 60 minutes, big news just released court documents in the michael cohen case. the fbi believed that then candidate donald trump was closely involved in a scheme to hide hush money payments to adult film star stormy daniels. here's the question. what does that mean now for a possible case against president trump on campaign finance violations? also today, locked up. accused sexual predator jeffrey

epstein will stay in custody as prosecutors continue to build their case against him. plus, more. >> the hard working americans, saying that ignorance is pervasive in many parts of this country. >> a crowd chants, send her back, during a trump rally when he starts to attack a member of the squad yet again. we'll begin this afternoon with new details in the campaign finance violations case that put former trump lawyer and fixer, the guy who is currently in jail, myrickichael cohen in pri. that included hush money payments to porn star stormy daniels. now we know the fbi believed the president, himself, donald trump, was involved. search warrants related to a 2018 raid of michael cohen's home and office released today by the southern district of new york describe a series of calls back in october of 2016 between

trump, cohen, and former white house communications director hope hicks. that resulted in cohen agreeing to make an illegal campaign contribution paid directly to stormy daniels. the federal judge who denied the government's request for limited redactions to protect third party interests called the violations in the matter a matter of national importance. he says, it is time that every american has an opportunity to scrutinize these very materials. and scrutinize they have been. joining me now, nbc news correspondent, tom winter. walk me through, what have we learned from these documents that we didn't know this morning? >> i think a couple things. as far as the over arching scheme we've known about this. we've known there were payments made, we know that the payments were made, you know, on behalf of, according to what michael cohen said and other documentation these payments were made on behalf of the president's campaign to pay these two women for affairs they

say they had with the president that he has strenuously denied. we've known about that. that is not new. we've talked about this probably a hundred times. what is new today is the president in his engagement with michael cohen on this issue according to phone records. these are not the president's phone records. they were not listening to the president's calls based on the information that's in this affidavit. what these were, were records for michael cohen's phones. basically, they detail five specific conversations that michael cohen had with the president in one of those certain circumstances he is on the phone with hope hicks, who was his press secretary at the time. basically the calls start on october 8th, which is right after the "access hollywood" tape comes out. the fbi writes in their affidavit to get the search warrants to get into michael cohen's apartment, his home, his hotel, basically saying, look. we believe these were discussions that were had because the access hollywood story came out and they wanted to tamp down on these other stories involving other women.

so the phone calls start at 7:20 p.m. on october 58 cording to these documents, four-minute phone call between trump and cohen and 8:03 a phone call between trump and cohen and the publisher of "the national enquirer" the head of american media. this phone call occurs on october 8. there's a series of discussions back and forth. i won't detail all of them because it goes on for several pages in these documents about arranging a payment to stormy daniels through her attorney. then on october 26th, the day that money is funded into escrow, essentially saying, michael cohen says, okay. i'm going to give her $130,000 for this payment, into escrow, as long as we get the documents back from stormy daniels and her side the day that payment is funded in the morning at 8:26 cohen and trump talk for three minutes. then at 8:34 they have a minute and a half phone call. there are other text messages and messages between cohen and other players that day. then on the 28th of october leading up to the election in

2016 at 11:48 a.m. there is a five-minute phone conversation between trump and cohen. that's the day that essentially we get the done deal. this whole payment involving stormy daniels is complete. so it's an important timeline. it's a new timeline to us. it details just how involved individual number one which michael cohen identified at the time the president, then candidate donald trump, was involved in this process. >> okay. from what you have just outlined to me, i hear this and i think, wow. this is bad news. this is bad news for hope hicks, potentially david pekhar, potentially the president. the president's attorney puts out a statement at the same time saying we are pleased the investigation regarding these ridiculous campaign finance allegations is now closed. we have plain tained from the outset that the president never engaged in any campaign finance violation. glad this thing is now closed. the president is also saying via twitter, i did nothing. this thing is now over. how is it that you're saying, wow.

all this bad stuff happened. and the president is spiking the ball. which is it? >> well, i think the bottom line is and i think we saw it from the mueller report and from the department of justice. they believe they cannot indict a sitting president. >> hope hicks isn't a sitting president. neither is david pekhar. >> he is okay because he signed a nonprosecution agreement. he signed an agreement with the government we heard about in december of last year when michael cohen was sentenced. basically he provided substantial testimony to federal prosecutors and to the fbi in new york in the course of the investigation. it was very helpful to them so they agreed not to prosecute him and not to prosecute american media which is the company he heads and the company that publishes "the national enquirer" as long as they took certain reforms as well. basically from a legal perspective essentially he got a clean bill of health. >> trump's lawyer says pleased

that the allegations surrounding these ridiculous allegations is now closed. >> he is accurate because the reason this material is unredacted today and we're able to talk about it is because prosecutors in new york, southern district prosecutors notified the judge and told the judge, look. we have now concluded this part of the investigation. the media company sought to get access to the search warrants because we knew they'd contain these details we are talking about today. prosecutors said, look. we still have certain aspects of our investigations in the search warrants that are still being investigated. we don't want that out into the open. the judge agreed. now prosecutors have said, look. we're done with the campaign finance portion of this. your honor, we're willing to unredact that. >> and it was the judge who said i believe the american people should hear this. should hear this for what purpose? hope hicks still living her life in l.a. when she gets a subpoena basically laughs at congress and says i'm not talking.

so is it that the judge wants the american people to hear this for our own personal interest? for democrats or congress possibly moving forward with an impea impeachment proceeding? from a legal perspective if the case is closed do you really think they'll reopen it? >> i think what the judge is doing here and i haven't talked with the judge and i don't expect him to take my calls but when a judge looks at this they say, look. there is a lot of underlying information. michael cohen before he pled guilty was going to be indicted and indicted on a lengthy indictment that would have likely included all of these details. so it is information and details concerning the president that haven't been made public before. the other thing you have to look at with respect to hope hicks is whether or not there's actually a nexus to a federal crime here. if hope hicks is facilitating phone conversations and is aware of phone conversations, she is not necessarily being involved in or directing or complicit in the scheme. from a legal perspective,

whatever we may think about that from a -- from the way that it looks whether we think that is acceptable behavior, whatever we may think about it there needs to be a legal nexus to a crime. it is not clear to me from the search warrants, certainly the president's involvement in the timeline raises significant legal questions if he wasn't holding the office of the president but from a hope hicks perspective is she just facilitating phone calls and aware of the discussions in which case could you really charge her? i don't know. i think from a legal -- you need a legal analyst. >> guess what? we've got two of them. let's bring them in. former federal prosecutor glen kirschner and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. glen, to you first. as unsettling as this report may be what does it actually mean in terms of legal consequences? >> let me use tom winter's great reporting and jump into the legal issues that i think this raises. now, first of all, we see in the documents that were just released this sentence. it says, now this is right after the access hollywood tape is

released, on october 8th, 2016, at approximately 7:20 p.m., cohen receives a call from hope hicks. 16 seconds into that call, trump joins it as a three way conference call and they talk for four minutes. here's where i think the legal issues arise. hope hicks reportedly said, i have no recollection of that call. now, that might make it sound like it's a he said/she said, with the he said being michael cohen saying, wait a minute. we had this three way call with, you know, soon-to-be president donald trump and discussed this blockbuster access hollywood tape and the implications of it for trump and the stormy daniels issue. and hope hicks tells federal investigators, i have no recollection. that i think gives hope hicks real legal exposure because it is no longer he said/she said. >> but, glenn, where and with whom? >> here is where. >> this information is new to you and i but not new to

prosecutors. the same prosecutors who charged michael cohen. that's why he is sitting in jail. they didn't charge hope hicks and they had this information. >> here's where i see it playing out, steph, in congress, for hope hicks, not necessarily in the courts. we know hope hicks has already appeared before congress and asserted a bogus privilege. absolute immunity. that battle will move into the courts. >> congress had to take it. >> the courts will decide there is no such thing. she'll return to congress and she'll have to testify truthfully or invoke her 5th amendment right against self-incrimination. congress will have to decide whether to immunize her. i predict they will. then she has to give up the president unless she wants to be held in contempt or perjure herself. it is a long road and we're all frustrated but that is where i see the road map taking us as a result of what we learned today. >> joyce, it's a long road. it's one that thus far doesn't -- hope hicks doesn't seem to mind being on. at the same time, the president

is running a victory lap and his attorneys are saying, case closed. >> it is very difficult i think in some ways to understand what's going on here. and there are many questions that need to be addressed to the attorney general who's been happy to answer questions about his decision making in other cases to determine whether or not he had any influence on the outcome of this case. i'm not suggesting that because i do think that we would see signals from inside of sdny. we would see prosecutors asking to be removed from the case if they felt like it had been mishandled. so the most likely outcome here, steph, is that prosecutors didn't think they could prove knowledge as to hope hicks. and this is an unusual statute, the campaign finance statute. it requires that prosecutors prove beyond a reasonable doubt that each defendant had knowledge that they were violating the law. not necessarily the campaign finance law but some law. perhaps that was the sticking

point with hicks. it looks pretty clearly here and i think the judge strongly signaled there is sufficient evidence to prove that the president was, in fact, individual one, a still unnamed coconspirator in a campaign finance violation here. that may have to await the end of his tenure as president. >> last word? >> just very briefly. look, a lot of people in the new york federal law enforcement have my phone number and i have a lot of their phone numbers and i've been talking with them over weeks and months. nobody has said there's been any interference from the attorney general on this case. i'm not omniscient. >> i thought you were. >> definitely not. but there's been no indication to me there's been any sort of interference in this case. >> by bill barr. >> correct. >> joyce, glenn, thank you both so much. tom. thank you. my friend, i haven't even gotten to say hello. how are things in new york? i am going to send it back to

you. >> it has been a very busy day here in new york as well. jeffrey epstein will stay in jail with the department of corrections. this morning a judge here in new york city denied his bond application agreeing with prosecutors the financeer should remain behind bars. in fact, epstein is charged with sex trafficking conspiracy involving minors and sex trafficking of minors as we mentioned. three alleged victims are listed in the federal indictment against him. we're learning more about what investigators found when they searched his upper eastside home. according to a letter filled with -- filed rather with the judge prosecutors say a safe was found containing about $70,000 in cash, 48 loose diamonds, and an expired foreign passport with epstein's picture but a different name. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk is covering the case for us from the courtroom. >> reporter: jeffrey epstein is staying in jail before he goes to trial facing two charges. one of sex trafficking one of

conspiracy to traffic minors for the purpose of sex. he has pleaded not guilty to those charges. the judge made it very, very quick today. this hearing was short. he came in and he said that there was clear and convincing evidence from federal prosecutors that jeffrey epstein was a danger to the community. they said there was also a preponderance of proof that he was a flight risk. now, unpacking that a little bit the judge specifically mentioned the two accusers that testified during the bail hearing. it's fairly unusual to have that kind of testimony during a bail hearing. many have said that it is a sign of how deliberate and careful new york authorities are being with this case. the judge saying that their testimony that jeffrey epstein was dangerous, they were scared of him being out in the public, that affected him. and today announcing that jeffrey epstein will be in jail. he could be charged if he is found guilty on these two charges, he could be put away

for 45 years. in other words, he could be in prison for the rest of his life. >> thanks to stephanie gosk for that. we just heard from president trump on the squad again. we'll bring that to you shortly. what is he trying to achieve with these continuous attacks? that's coming up. too many people in pain settle

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when your supporters last night were chanting, send her back, why didn't you stop them?

why didn't you ask them to stop saying that? >> well, number one, i think i did. i started speaking very quickly. it really was a loud -- i disagree with it, by the way, but it was quite a chant, and i felt a little bit badly about it but i will say this. i did, and i started speaking very quickly, but it started up rather fast as you probably noticed. >> so you'll tell your supporters never to say that again? >> i would say i was not happy with it. i disagree with it. but again, i didn't say that. they did. but i disagree with it. >> they were echoing what you said in your first week. >> i don't think you'll find that. i disagree with it. >> that was the president at the white house moments ago as the backlash continues to grow on his attacks of four congresswomen of color. he was speaking at a rally in north carolina last night where this happened. >> when you see the four

congresswomen, oh, isn't that lovely? representati representative alexandria, ocasio-cortez. but cortez -- somebody said that's not her name. they said, that's not her name, sir. i said, no, no. i don't have time to go with three different names. we'll call her cortez. representative ilhan omar. she looks down with contempt on the hard working americans, saying that ignorance is pervasive in many parts of this country. and obviously, and importantly, omar has a history of launching vicious, anti-semitic screeds.

[ chanting ] send her back. send her back. send her back. send her back. >> all right. just to be clear the president in his statements a few moments ago tried to say that he tried to stop it. you can clearly see in the video that he kind of nodded along early on. did not try to actually verbally at least stop it and allowed it to take place. congresswoman ilhan omar, alexandria ocasio-cortez both responded within the last hour. watch. >> i want to remind people that this is what this president and his supporters have turned our country, that is supposed to be a country where we allow democratic debate and dissent to take place. and so this is not about me. this is about us fighting for what this country truly should be and what it deserves to be. >> this is not just about threats to individual members of congress but it is about creating a volatile environment

in this country through violent rhetoric that puts anyone like ilhan, anyone who believes in the rights of all people in danger. >> all right. so far 36 republican lawmakers have condemned trump's tweets, but still some havien't gone tht far. here is republican senator lindsey graham talking about it earlier today. >> i think the president is in a tug of war with his opponents. the question is, do i think the president is a racist? no. let me tell you why. if you're somali refugee and you are wearing a megahat and you're a big trump fan you'd probably be having dinner at the white house. he lashes out at people who are critical of him and his view that are hurting the country and in his view are hurting the country and that's what this is all about. >> joining me now nbc news white house correspondent, good to have you with us. a lot to break down. i want your perspective as somebody who covers the white house and in touch with people

inside the administration. what is the president's strategy here when he goes after these four congresswomen? is there something more sinister at play? dare i say something political at play beyond what some have called racism? >> look, ayman, i am not one to ascribe strategy to donald trump where none exists. on sunday when he first fired off the racist tweets there was no strategy. he was reacting to something he likely saw or read in the moment. now as the campaign embraces really the president's rhetoric as you see the president there try to do some damage control about the racist rant last night, that strikes me as a talking point aimed at damage control. the reason why i say that is because we also saw kevin mccarthy the house republican leader say much of the same thing in his press conference earlier today that the president when you heard that chant tried to talk quickly to stop it. we know just based on the video and based on reporters who were there, our colleagues who were there last night at the rally made clear the president didn't start talking immediately. he took in the moment and then

he continued on with his attack. now you see the president and his allies lindsey graham among them trying to rationalize and refine this racism, try to say it's really about ideology when, really, the president is giving his make america great again base some powerful imagery in the form of these four congresswomen. four women, one hispanic, one african-american, two muslim, one of whom is a somalian refugee. so if there is any strategy here at all it's this. donald trump stands little chance of increasing his own favorability numbers. he's really never shown an interest in expanding his base of support. what he does ayman is he goes on the attack. he smears his opponent as a means of destroying them to try to increase his opponents' negative impression with american voters. that's what he did with hillary clinton in 2016 and what he is doing now with these four congresswomen. in light of the fact that he doesn't yet have a democratic nominee. these are the stand-ins for the foil that he so often needs when

he is on the political attack. >> so you brought up an interesting point about how some of the republicans have been responding. you mentioned lindsey graham who tried to make an interesting, somewhat odd comparison saying if it was a somali refugee wearing a megahat in support of the president the president wouldn't go after them. a lot of people, a lot of white men criticized the president, the president does not go after them with the same kind of racial vitriol we saw him go after these four women of color, congresswomen. why are some republicans still backing the president on this? what is their objective in this? what do they have to gain, somebody like lindsey graham or kevin mccarthy? >> lindsey graham i think is the best case study of this. what they have to gain is job security, right? the republican party has been remade in the image of donald trump. one way we know that is because the latest reuters poll taken after sunday after the tweets came out, donald trump's standing with republicans actually went up a bit as a result of those tweets. and so lindsey graham running for re-election in south carolina, he knows as any good politician should know where they stand politically and

lindsey graham knows donald trump is far more popular with republicans in south carolina than, in fact, lindsey graham is. that is one reason why you saw there the senator from south carolina try to rationalize the racism. to your point, brendan boyle the democrat from pennsylvania who just happens to be white he, too, from an immigrant family tweeted the other day. he said, look. i am also from an immigrant family, also critical of the president, yet donald trump has never told me, a white man, to go back to where i came from. >> the other point you brought up which is very interesting about the political calculation for the president and his base, we have the u.s. census bureau projecting its data showing that the u.s. really as a whole as a country and in particular swing states, they're growing more diverse more quickly. obviously that raises the question, what could that mean for a president who continues to make derogatory comments and really trade in this racist rhetoric? >> it means that the 2020 race is going to make 2016 look like a stroll through the park.

i mean, i think this is really only going to get worse. for much of the reason i just outlined the president, because he cannot increase his own favorability, is going to continue to go on the attack. the thing is we've seen how this worked in 2018. that caravan of migrants was making its way and the president kept harping on it. we know how that turned out, right? republicans lost a lot of the districts they had previously held and democrats ended up winning the house of representatives as democrats campaigned on issues of the economy and health care. now, it's not the best apples-to-apples comparison because obviously in 2018 donald trump wasn't on the ballot but, certainly, it was a referendum of sorts on donald trump. so you have to imagine how this will play out particularly if one of the more diverse members of the democratic field happens to emerge as the nominee. >> all right. always a pleasure, my friend. thanks for breaking it down for us. as we celebrate the 50th anniversary of the moon landing nasa is making plans for the next moon mission. joining me is nasa administrator

jim birdenstein. we'll talk about the agency's plans next. ♪ limu emu & doug look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ but we're also a cancer fighting,

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all right. welcome back everyone to "velshi and ruhle." 50 years ago today three astronauts were approaching the moon in a craft with a fraction of the computing powers used by your smartphone that is probably in your pocket right now. today nasa is working to harness the most advanced technology to propel a new generation of astronauts back to the lunar surface and beyond. the nasa administrator is here with me now with more to talk about. this is very fascinating. so many aspects i'm excited to talk to you about. let's start with the objective of what we are trying to do in our space exploration. how realistic is it to get somebody to the moon and to mars? >> wonderful question. the answer is it is very realistic. i think we can do it, in fact i know we can within five years. a lot of things have to go right and of course the budgets have to materialize. the goal is to go back to the

moon this time, sustainably. this time when we go to the moon we stay and we go this time with international partners and with commercial partners and we utilize the resources of the moon. we discovered in 2009 that there's hundreds of millions of tons of water ice on the south pole of the moon. water ice represents air to breathe and water to drink. it's also rocket fuel. hydrogen and oxygen. when you crack h2o into hydrogen and rocket that is the same fuel that took neil armstrong and buzz aldrin to the moon. it is available in hundreds of millions of tons on the south pole of the moon. there is a lot more we need to learn. ultimately, we go to the moon so we can learn to live and work on another world using the resources of that world so we can go on further. in this case we want to go to mars. >> i think some folks may be watching and sometimes we get a little spoiled by the fact that we've seen it and done it. some people are wondering why

haven't we done this already? why has it taken so long to go back to the moon? what's different this time? >> in the past, we tried it before. in the 1990s we had the space exploration initiative and the challenge then was some people were suggesting that we take the money from the international space station. it became politically untenable because of delegations from texas and florida and alabama and it ended up dying. then we had the division for space exploration in the early 2000s which was an effort to go back to the moon and on to mars and at the time the effort was to cut the science mission director of nasa. that created a partisan fight which, of course, then killed the program eventually down the road. what we're trying to do is make sure this time when we go to the moon we get additional resources that enable us to go without creating the partisan or political or parochial divides that ultimately have killed it in the past. >> you talk about this exciting operation to go forward both to the moon and ultimately to mars. what is it going to take in terms of government support and private sector support?

what do you guys want to see from both of these groups to help make that objective a reality? >> it's a perfect question. this time when we go we have these commercial partners doing amazing work right now in lower earth orbit. we have commercial resupply going back and forth to the international space station where nasa isn't purchasing, owning, and operating the hardware. we're buying a service from a very robust commercial marketplace and lower earth orbit. we have in fact within the next year we're going to launch american astronauts from american soil for the first time since the retirement of the space shuttles. that is again, we're going to do it commercially, buy the service not own and operate the rockets. now when we go to the moon we'll buy landers, commercially. we'll buy the service. and of course what that does is it enables us to accelerate the schedule and ultimately save costs and the private companies are investing their own money. the question of why would they invest their own money? they're looking for customers that are not nasa. there is a return for them down the road they're looking forward to. >> administrator, i have to ask

you and not to get into the politics of this but as we were talking on the break you said the international space station and nasa relies on the international community for scientists and help. >> yes. >> it is truly an international effort. we rely on a lot of immigrants who have come to this country who have been part of nasa's success. what do you make when you hear the president talk about the kind of rhetoric we're hearing about immigrants and countries beyond our borders in terms of how difficult that makes your job? what do you say to your employees at nasa? >> know this. when we think about space exploration, in the 1960s this was a contest of great powers. the united states of america against the soviet union. and the goal was of course to put an american flag on the moon to demonstrate to the world that we had technological superiority. that we had a political and economic system that would survive. interestingly, after we achieved that objective, russia reached out to the united states and said we want to partner. 1975.

the aapollo soyuz program came together and we were living and working together in space. then we had the shuttle mir program living and working together in space. even today 20 years on the international space station. know this. space has the ability to transcend geo politics. in fact, it has the ability to transcend even domestic politics. nasa is very fortunate. we have bipartisan support. ultimately because people see it for what it is. this is about humanity going further than we've ever gone before and it is all of humanity. >> do you condemn the rhetoric we hear from the president about immigration and immigrants to this country? >> i want to be clear. what i do as a nasa administrator is science. i don't get into the politics. i stay away from the politics. my job is to dispassionately gather the science and share it with the entire world. >> for that we appreciate it. nasa administrator jim bridenstein thank you very much for your time and good luck with your missions. the 2020 election will be here before you know it but are voting machines prepared to fight off hack attacks?

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this is how car buying was always meant to be. this is truecar. we all use our phones differently. i can manage the time they spend on their phone, who they're texting with, all of that. it's a win for all of us. (vo) the network more people rely on, gives you more. like plans families can mix and match, including the new just kids plan. that's verizon. let's see, aleve is than tylenol extra strength. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain. so this is easy. >> welcome back to "velshi and ruhle" i am here in aspen, colorado for the aspen security forum. as we speak america's elections are under attack by foreign entities with the 2020 presidential election less than 500 days away. this is a big problem. guess who is stepping in?

microsoft. trying to tackle this current, constant threat of cyber attacks. announcing yesterday that it will give away software specifically designed to improve the security of the american voting machines. the tech giant also said, are you ready for this? it tracked 781 cyber attacks by foreign adversaries targeting political organizations so far this election cycle. joining us now two men here to make us smarter and maybe scare us a little. nbc national security and intelligence reporter and former career diplomat and diplomacy professor at the university of denver. to you first. walk us through this. what is microsoft doing? >> microsoft has an open source, free piece of software they're calling election guard. they're working with election machine vendors and local governments to deploy it in a pilot program in the 2020 election and it basically allows people to track their votes through an encrypted system to verify their vote was accurately recorded. the reason that's important is

about 30% of registered voters, voting counties that have no paper trail, no auditable way to track votes and microsoft is trying to tackle that problem. >> they are offering it but is there an official partnership with the government? like this is a great idea, sounds awesome, but is anyone actually doing it? >> they have partnerships and are rolling it out only in pilot form in 2020. it is not solving the problem yet but election experts have celebrated the fact that a tech giant like microsoft is even getting involved in election security which has been kind of a back water technology wise for years. >> microsoft has said, ambassador, that the majority of these attacks on nation states are coming from north korea, iran, and russia. if and what are we doing to deter these countries? >> first of all, it's tough. it's not like you want to go interfere in their elections such as they are. but the other issue is we don't have embassyies in two of them. >> an embassy is going to stop this? >> no. it is not about having an

ambassador, have tea and cookies with somebody. it is a question of whether you can get other agencies in there who know this kind of stuff, who might work with host government organizations, might be able to get them more serious about dealing with this. and moreover by being on the ground you learn a lot on the ground as opposed to just looking at it from satellites. you learn a lot about what's going on, who's making what, why are they doing this, who are they cooperating with. is this really north korea? are there actors in china in the wild and woolly northeast provinces in china? you know, there's a lot to look at. we don't have people there so we don't -- when you don't have people on the ground you don't know very much what's going on. >> all right. ken, this should sufficiently scare everyone. microsoft said this. they notified almost 10,000 customers in the last year that they have been targeted or compromised by nation state cyber attacks. about 84% of the attacks targeted enterprise customers, generally at organizations, and

about 16% targeted consumers' personal e-mail accounts. what does that signal? are these hacks getting even harder to see? >> not necessarily. what it shows is that our adversaries are using cyber attacks as they have been for years to gather intelligence to try to influence our politics, to steal intellectual property. of those 10,000 they found 781 as you said specifically targeting political organizations, candidates, campaigns. >> in this election cycle. >> in the last year. they're warning this is only the beginning. that is separate from election security. this is about stealing information and manipulating the vote and social media and all the stuff the russians did in 2016 and we don't really have a good answer to combat that. >> ambassador, what is your biggest fear going into the 2020 election as it relates to cyber security and cyber attacks? >> frankly speaking what the russians did in 2016 worked. i would see others trying to do that sort of thing. frankly, i would see even the russians doing it, maybe

differently. and i don't feel, leadership starts at the top by definition and i don't really see, get the sense that our government is really fully engaged with this as a, frankly, question for our democracy. i worry about our management of it and i worry about the continued interests of russia and other actors to push ahead with something they feel has been very successful up until now. >> the rules haven't changed. ambassador, ken, thank you both so much. now back to new york. my friend ayman mohyeldin i did not get a chance to say welcome back earlier. welcome back. we have missed you. >> thank you. >> how is the new baby? >> thank you so much. he is doing very well. hopefully sleeping and not giving his mom a hard time at home right now. good to be back. >> hold on. you mean he is not watching? >> he probably is. >> this is a rule. when your children are at home they must be tuning in. >> with all the news right now i'm kind of worried. i want him to see something a little more positive than our

politics these days. hopefully in a couple days it'll get better. thanks. yesterday on this show right before an interview with senator bernie sanders on his new health care plan we aired two graphics showing americans will pay $3.7 trillion for health care over ten years. we also used one of many projected costs for medicare for all. one of them from the urban institute showing medicare for all will cost an estimated $4.5 trillion over ten years. we emphasize we were incorrect with that. the graphics you are seeing now on your screen are the correct ones. that $4.5 trillion is the cost estimate for just one year for the plan, not ten years. it was important for us to make that correction. all right. tensions are still rising be iran. now we are getting word that more u.s. troops are heading to the region in a show of force. we'll tell you about that next. you're watching "velshi and ruhle" here on msnbc. his luxurious fur calms my nerves when i'm worried about

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welcome back. today in the middle east, iranian state tv reporting that the revolutionary guard force seized a tanker accused of

smuggling oil. the move comes amid heightened tensions between the u.s. and iran. and now the defense department is saying that the united states is sending hundreds of troops to saudi arabia in what is intended as the latest show of force towards iran. joining us now, bureau chief. good to have you with us. let's talk about the oil tanker seizure. what is the latest information we are hearing on that particularly in terms of what it was doing, where that tanker was, who it belongs to, any details as to why they took it? >> welcome back. so the revolutionary guard issued a statement seized foreign oil tanker with 12 crew members on board because they were smuggling oil. they say the ship was seized in the strait of hormuz separating

the persian gulf and the gulf of oman. they said the vessel had been towed on sunday and it was later seized for fuel smuggling. the guard said they impounded the ship which was smuggling 1 million liters of fuel which was being brought in small boats. so far the authorities here have yet to mention the vessel. the iranians have put out a video of the tanker that they seized and it bears the name on it which we believe is the same tanker that switched off its tracking signal this weekend and the situation is still fluid. we have to see who it belongs to and who else was involved in this supposed smuggling. >> let me get your thoughts in terms of putting this in context for us with the increased tension. what do you make of what we are

seeing unfold right now with actions like this and the increased rhetoric from the two nations? illegally smuggling has been going on for decades in the persian gulf. iran has some of the world's cheapest fuel prices due to a combination of heavy state subsidies. so there is a constant battle here to fight smuggling fuel that travels across by land, through iran's many borders or by sea. now, i'm not saying this is the case with this particular tanker, but iran certainly wants to show its power especially now in the persian gulf and beyond. now, this is evident from actions and statements made by top officials. iran's supreme leader has been responding recently to the seizure of an iranian oil tanker by the u.k. he said that iran will not let

this act of piracy by the evil english go unanswered. today the head of the revolutionary guard said that iran can take strong abilities, defensive measures in this region. >> thank you very much for that. we want to cross over to the white house because we have breaking news. president trump is meeting with the prime minister of the netherlands. let's take a listen. >> difficult situation for a lot of reasons. things could have been done better in the previous administration. the previous administration made some very big mistakes with regard to turkey. and it was too bad. so we're looking at it. we'll see what we will do. we haven't announced that yet. >> what is the message for your supporters who are making that -- >> these are people that love our country. i want them to keep loving our country skpmpt i think the congress women, by the way, should be more positive than they are. the congresswomen have a lot of

problems. when you look at the statements they made that were so bad and so horrible to our country, you look at what they said. what they said was something that is hard to believe that they could make statements like that. and i can go page over page over page, many, many statements whether it's about us, about israel, the world trade center and all of the different things that were said. it was a very terrible thing. i'm not happy about when i hear chants like that. i have said that and i have said it very strongly. i will tell you, the congressmen and women have a big obligation in this country and in every country. they have a big obligation. and the obligation is to love your country. there is such hatred. they have such hatred. i have seen statements with such hatred toward our country. i don't think that's a good thing. they should embrace our country. they should love our country. and things would be a lot better.

thank you very much, everybody. thank you. >> is there any chance you might intervene in that contract? >> which one is that? >> the amazon? so i'm getting tremendous complaints about the contract with the pentagon and with amazon. they're saying it wasn't competitively bid. this has been going on for a long time i think probably before this administration. we're looking at it very seriously. it's a very big contract, one of the biggest ever given, having to do with the cloud and a lot of other things. we're getting tremendous, really complaints from other companies and from great companies, some of the greatest companies in the world are complaining about it, having to do with amazon and the department of defense. i will be asking them to look at it very closely to see what's going on because i have had very few things where there has been such complaining, not only

complaining from the media or asking questions about it from the media, but complaining from different companies like microsoft and oracle and ibm, great companies are complaining about it. so we're going to take a look at it and take a very strong look at it. thank you very much, everybody. >> right this way, guys. thank you. thank you, press. thank you, guys. we're leaving now. thank you very much. we're leaving now, guys. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we're leaving now. good afternoon. you just heard the president during an oval office meeting with the prime minister of the netherlands disavowing the chilling response from the crowd at his rally in north carolina lat night, something he did not do last night. in fact, what he did was send a message to representative ilhan

omar who immigrated from somalia as a child. >> omar has a history of launching vicious antisemitic screeds. >> it was a chant and i felt a little bit badly about it. i will say this. i did and i started speaking very quickly. it started rather fast. i was not happy with it. i disagree with it. >> while trump says he disagrees with the chant and claims he tried to stop it, the center back narrative began with him. it stems from tweets over the weekend claiming that four congress women of color hate their country and suggesting people who don't like it here should go back to where they came from, something he defended and doubled down on multiple times since those tweets.