fact he did not do anything and he was falsely accused, why should he be charged? >> also a fair point, too. anyway, the challenge of these stories, that's for sure. courtney kube by, thank you. >> that's all have i tonight. we'll be back tomorrow. more "meet the press" daily. post night one on the debate. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now tonight, a fact check on president trump's race-baiting plus his policies. the lawmaker who took on trump today joins us. let me tell you something had, a little msnbc housekeeping, "hardball" comes early because chris matthews joins to us preview this debate within this hour. then this other story we've been talking about all day, new trouble for trump's latest national security pick. we begin tonight right now with some facts. first, donald trump is very unpopular with black voters.

that is a fact. second, that unpopularity and the lack of supporting evidence from the white house makes mr. trump's latest defense of his attacks on a prominent black lawmaker very unlikely to be true, trump claiming he's getting support for his race-baiting. third fact, before we broadcast any new claims from the president tonight, let's look at policy facts about his administration. because it is currently pushing right now a new rule that would deny food staffs and assistance to 3 million americans. the same rule would also operate to potentially kick 500,000 low income children off of programs that provide either free or reduced price school lunches. now, that is a huge deal for low income americans white or black, rural or urban. it's precisely the kind of policy that civil rights leaders and leaders of communities of colors and yes, leaders like congressman cummings have been criticizing and advocating

against. this is the policy meat on the rhetorical bone of donald trump's hateful politics of 2019. it's not just what he says. it's what his federal government under his administration is doing and because this is "the beat," we have a few more facts. in march, the trump administration pushed to slash funding for affordable housing programs in america as well as pushing cuts to the education department, curtailing key after school programs, ending teacher training programs, and curtailing grants for supplemental school programs. those are government operations that are designed explicitly to lift up to provide opportunity, wherever in america, from omaha to yes, baltimore. and this we want to present you in this news broadcast is the policy context for donald trump now defending and repeating his tirade against congressman cummings. >> a large african-american

population and they really appreciate what i'm doing. and they've let me know it. they're so happy that i pointed out the corrupt politics of baltimore. it's filthy dirty. it's so horrible. and they are happy as hell. what i've done for african-americans in two and a half years, no president has been able to do anything like it. unemployment at the lowest level in the history of our country for african-americans. the ones that like it the best what i'm doing are african-american voters. >> i'm joined by marc morial, ceo of the national urban league, joel burke ceo of hunger free america which does a lot of work that addresses what we're talking about in cities as well as poor parts of rural america, and the host of woke af. thanks to all of you for being here. i have a few more facts. i wanted to bring each of you in first, down the line what we just pointed out where the

rhetoric meets the policy. >> donald trump is engaging in a weapon of mass distraction. he's using race to take the focus off racial conversations, hateful conversations to take the focus, ari, off of what you just told us. and that is that there is no comprehensive urban policy, that there's been an assault in donald trump's budget proposals on education programs, housing programs, an assault on the fair housing rule at the department of housing and urban development, work requirements for medicaid, draconian policy mernz they align with his rhetoric but because we're talking about his rhetoric and his untoward attacks, these things are going to some extent unnotice pmd we notice them. we're pushing back on them and fighting them. the other thing, ari, if african-americans are calling the white house, then i guess there are rhinoceroses, buffaloes and elephants roosting

on the roof of the white house. >> fair. >> joel, you might not look scary to our viewers and this is your first time on "the beat." but what you know and what you do might be scared of donald trump because he seems to want to talk about some of these problems which i mention are in cities as well as other parts of the country. as a political foyle, as something to use to incite or to demean. rather than i believe the way you are working on them which is we are a rich nation with a lot of people struggling to even get fed. >> there's no question trump and republicans frankly for decades before him wanted to give the nation the false impressioning that everyone getting snap, the new name for food stamps was nonwhite when the largest number of americans getting snap food stamps are white. >> he is trying to cut the food support support for something that clearly goes to, and i'm not saying we should divide it

up to, a program that helps kids eat. you're saying the majority of whom are white and some of whom are black and the main thing that unites them is they're hungry. >> that's correct. the states that have the highest level of snap food stamps participation per capita are southern states that voted for trump. his supporters are going to learn the hard way that racism doesn't put food on the table. not only are they taking snap away from 3 million americans most of whom are working, the rest children, senior citizens, working people, veterans, but they're taking food away from 500,000 kids in school meals. when you lose snap eligibility, you lose schools meals eligibility. his race-baiting isn't going to change sthag. >> we've always known that donald trump is a racist, that his policies would be racist. these people, the ones that have benefited from government programs don't care because what

lbj said many, many years ago, if you can teach the poorest white man that he is better than the best black man, you can pick his pocket. donald trump is that used car salesman going around and picking the pockets of poor working class people and he's saying you know what, i know that you're a racist deep down and i'm just as racist as you are if not more. it doesn't matter that i started a trade war and you faerp, are no longer able to toil your land. it doesn't matter if i've closed the factories. it doesn't matter that i myself benefitted from putting mai-tai and clothing lines into china as opposed to american factories. none of that matters. what matters is that your whiteness supersedes everything else and you should be celebrated for that. that is what donald trump is doing on a day in, day out basis. >> you put it that starkly. the question becomes is donald trump on to something because he would argue he made his narrow electoral path in the electoral college in 2016 on this kind of race-baiting and saying today

it's working. let me put up the next fact i promise, which is you have donald trump saying well, african-american unemployment has actually dropped. that's a piece of this. of course, that began here as you see, if you want to go through the history, most starkly in the turn around after the financial crisis under barack obama. 9% after that recession. and then i want to mention the politics. donald trump claiming that african-american voters are happy with those attacks on cummings we discussed. look at the national poll out new tonight, poll centers, we didn't write the question, pollsters asking americans if donald trump is a racist. 51% reporting back yes, and nearly every group of voters you find a majority including independents, democrats, women, whites with a college degree, blacks, hispanics, younger americans, older americans, just about every group till you sort, mark, bipartisan ideology.

>> so i'd say this, that you know, donald trump, his 2016 election was predicated on lower african-american turnout and the presence of a third party candidate on the left. those circumstances are not going to be present in 2020. i predict there's going to be massive turnout because as donald trump stimulates his base, he stimulates the anti-trump base equally. the anti-trump base. those who want a different america and want a president who unites. the other thing, donald trump can't own 4% unemployment on his watch and not own the rats in baltimore. mr. president, the rats are yours, the rodents are yours, the gun violence is yours, the opioid crisis is yours. korea and china and mexico, those are yours. >> you look at what it takes to be a mayor which is all about accountability. you got to the own the roads,

the pot locals and you might have to own the rats. you have a president who acts like a pundit who if you believe him on his best day who just woke up and noticed these things. he's the president. doesn't he have more power to take care of this. >> he has more power than all of this. he's acting like president of part of america. he wants to hand pick, the counties, neighborhoods he's going to lead. he's the president of all of america. >> danielle, let's talk about the burbs for a second. >> where i'm from. let's not only pretend that white people live in the burbs. >> we're crushing a lot of misleadingtropes tonight. the burbs, we're told, don't like this at all. i want to read some quotes from suburban women. "i don't like the way he talks about other people. i'm just an shaped to be an american right now. of all the people of the disrespect and the lies and the stuff, it's too much for me and the way he treats people, it's

horrible." >> yeah, well, you know, i'm glad that these women that were asked, their opinions on donald trump and his rhetoric are now speaking out and saying oh, my goodness. there was one in that report that said you know, sometimes you just need a strong businessman and this is how you know, business is done. i'm saying that's how patriarchy is done, this idea you're allowed to be a jerk, you're allowed to talk down to people and demoralize them because that's what it takes to get the job done. the other thing is many of these women are the 53% that voted for donald trump in the first place. and now they're surprised that he's actually ho said he was going to be. so i'm glad that they are waking up but should they be applauded for it, i don't think so. nor do you need a poll to tell you that donald trump is a racist. i think it's great because pollsters need jobs all you need are eyes and ears and to be able to read twitter. then you would know. i think that america has to

decide and white america in particular has to decide how they want to show up and who they want to be and how they want to model their families, their children and their future after this president. >> danielle, we appreciate you as a guest. you can do more than one thing. you bring the moral clarity and the shoutout to the suburbs. and a little shade for the pollsters. that's fine. i want you all to stay with me on the panel. one of the other questions that comes up, is who is going to step up to trump in person. tonight's debate is who looks the part for that, whatever that means to voters. we're going to show you something. donald trump having to deal directory with a protester calling him out for all of this. virginia state lawmaker basically gets proverbially in trump's face protesting at this speech in jamestown. >> right here in virginia, your predecessors -- >> you can't send us back. virginia is our home. mr. president, you cannot send us back. virginia is our home.

>> you hear the delegate there saying and we're watching this footage pretty powerful, you can't send us back. the sign you see there says deport hate the person we're about to hear from was ultimately escorted out of the event but not "the beat." ibrahim samira, welcome to the beat." >> thank you for having me, ari. >> absolutely. we just saw that footage. i want to understand and viewers to understand, why was it important to you being a lawmaker being able be in that room to use your freedom of speech that way? >> it was extremely tough decision to go into it. this is a monumental celebration for virginia. 400th anniversary of democracy not just in virginia but in the entirety of the western hemisphere. and here we have a president coming and espousing all sorts

of xenophobic rhetoric and hate and we have here a jamestown, virginia, that stands for essentially immigrants coming to the americas in pursuit of a better life. and the body which they created was supposed to be representative and democratic and upholding the values of virginia, that which we have in on our seal, anti-tyrannical. >> when you decided to do this you're taking a risk. the president might come after you which he did. i'll show that in a moment. before i show that, did you factor that in? did you think you could achieve something by going at him directly? and we talk about civil rights. we all know there's a rich history of direct action in this country of the idea that sometimes doing things in the same room or in front of the building or in front of the pro testifies is different and more powerful than wherever else we may say them. give us your thinking about that. >> absolutely.

i mean, something that sticks in my head is some of my mentors were telling me for martin luther king, for one, there was 100 that came before him. that struggled that failed. and look, i worked hard in my own life. my parents have sacrificed a lot. my family has sacrificed in the face of poor immigration policies. my father in particular in a victim of poor policy of the united states the federal government. look, the risk is unbearable to think of what would happen if we allow trump to just come and energize his base here in virginia when we have an election in 2019. we're looking to flip the legislators blue and make sure. >> you wanted to counter him. talk about a dramatic president, youent waed to counter him with your own message that would be seen and heard. it was heard. let's look at the president about you. take a look. >> the only problem, john, gave

the protester 100% of the time. and i don't care about coverage. the last thing i need is coverage. but lay, john, 100%, not word of the speech. we were there about the speech. the protester didn't look so good to me. i'm going to be very nice. but you gave him 100%. >> your response. >> look, the president of the united states has done this time and time again where he wants to shut down media. he acts like he's in a tyranny here. we're going to make it loud and clear that our constituents here on the ground as democratic representatives myself included of herndon, virginia, that they are a diverse community that respects equity, that wants to enable people on the margins to uplift them to, give them good policy to, fight against systemic discrimination of all kinds. this is what every democrat in the country is hopefully fighting for and this is our pathway to victory in 2019 in

virginia and in 2020 all across the united states. >> i'm about out of time. the last thing i noticed is you basically confronted him over your view and your criticism that he has been discriminatory and racist. and what seemed according to his own words to bother him was that you took some of his media time. >> uh-huh. well, you know, his media time is so valuable to him as somebody who is from hollywood. i completely understand that to his perspective, but in reality, look, this is the time for americans to rise of all kinds of all types of all backgrounds. we're here to uplift people for the betterment of everybody across the board, their health care, public health overall, education. real policy initiatives that will advance america forward for the next 100 years. >> something we've been discussing throughout the top of our show tonight on a day that like other days has been stressful for the body politic.

thanks so much. all here in new york with me. we have a lot more. up next chris matthews is here live from detroit. later, a beat special report why the conventional wisdom about the large field of the. and my exclusive interview tonight with a former trump executive on the president on 9/11 and why that's the time he chose to lie. i'm ari melber. you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. watching "the beat" on msnbc. ping] {tires screeching} {truck honking} (avo) life doesn't give you many second chances. but a subaru can. (dad) you guys ok? you alright? wow. (avo) eyesight with pre-collision braking. standard on the subaru ascent. the three-row subaru ascent. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru.

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round two for the democrats tonight, ten candidates taking the stage in detroit, key battleground state of michigan. we'll see elizabeth warren face off with bernie sanders on the same stage this year for the first time. i'm joined by political expert and the host of "hardball" with chris matthews the one and only chris matthews live in detroit. tell us what needs to go down tonight, chris. what are you watching for? >> well, you're looking at the polls. everybody watching the show has been looking at the polls. it's winnowed down to about five candidates, pete buttigieg at the bottom, biden at the top. i would say starting now, august through the fall with all the holidays this month off and then of course, christmas holidays, the holidays then, it's not a

lot of time between now and february 3rd when it comes down to it. you'll see further winnowing from five candidatesed to three. most people would say there are three tickets coming out of iowa. tonight the two people probably the most in jeopardy of not making three would be buttigieg and i think sanders. sanders has been fading, warren has been rising at his cost. at his expense right along. biden is holding up there in the 30s. i think the future is probably harris because she looks very good once you get minority voters. you don't get minority voters in iowa but you will in south carolina and the big super tuesday states a month later. i think in fact, you start voting in california february 3rd. so i think it's about three. i think the fight can sanders stay in the fight tonight. >> michigan as you know a lig

labor state. has warren taken out some of the things that used to define him. let's take a look at the two of them. >> i believe in a democratic socialism that works for the working families of this country. >> the american people deserve freedom, true freedom. >> bernie has to speak to what democratic socialism. >> you are not one. >> i'm not. all i can tell you is what i believe. and that is, there's an enormous amount to be gained from markets. >> so many people think of her as obviously progressive. what are we ta to make on the way she's coming in at him on that issue? >> the market's create the wealth. the government plays a role in terms of the safety net. and distributing some of that wealth. government's not going to create the wealth. nim me a government that runs a successful economy anywhere, even the scan knave canadian states that is bernie talks

about are free market states. they take care of people who need to be taken care of. but they have free markets. bernie is a socialist and believes government should run the economy. that's what he believes in. i think that's a hard sell for most older democrats who have been through the cold war, through all these fights. they don't like what they see in communism or socialism. i think i would say she's -- about a year and a half ago, she took me to lunch and said two things i think are telling right now. she said first of all i'm a democrat. i'm not a socialist. number two, i believe in free markets. i'm not a socialist. ideologically in terms of partisan identification, she's very different from bernie and wants you to know it. >> you said you guys were at lunch together. i'm reminded of one of the old democratic primary burns. where is the beef. i think that could be asked about some of the newer faces who have to go through there long process which you've covered these races, sometimes

the people who look good at the beginning don't fare, as well. take a look at beto o'rourke acknowledging his troebls in the debates. >> i realize i wasn't seeing everything that was happening because you're so tunnel vision focused on the question and your response. was so focused on my answer. so widening that focus to see the larger picture i think is going to be helpful to me. >> is it harder than it looks for the rookies and is that going to help narrow the field, as well? >> i think we're going through a new face now. the phase for the last year or so you might call it the haagen-dazs phase. everybody has their own flavor. i love buttigieg this week or beto this week. now it's winnowing. all these guys and women around 1% are stuck there. i do think the voters have begun to decide they're watching biden because he's the old guy that's been there. he's the steady as she goes. there's bernie because he looked

really good last time. he wanted to split iowa with hillary last time. the two coming on are warren and kamala harris. women are showing their stuff there year. we all know what's going on. young people and people of color are demanding their say in this party. the days where the white guys run the politics are over. biden has to fight for his seat like all the rest of them. i do think it's winnowing now from now till the end of the fight in iowa, we'll go from five candidates to three candidates. coming out of iowa, i would bet on biden still being there, kamala being there and i think elizabeth, too. i think bernie will be out by then. just look at the projections. you can go every week and see elizabeth coming, you've seen the numbers. every week she comes up, he goes down. if you project elizabeth the way she's been going and follow the projections all the way through early february, she's up there

with biden. i just think kamala has been the hot ticket in the campaign so far. she's shown her stuff and knows how to campaign. we'll see. i don't want to write anybody out yet. i see a pattern here. >> as you say, it shows how closely the votes are listen. they watch the last debates. we'll see a lot of candidates tonight. god willing, we'll be seeing a lot of chris matthews. we'll see you, sir. there you have it. 7:00 p.m. eastern tonight. do not miss this edition of "hardball." and my big shoutout to the university of michigan. back in 30 seconds. a special report on the size of the democratic field and why the conventional wisdom could be wrong. field and why the conventional wisdom could be wrong. vanced safety technology on a full line of vehicles. now, at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2019 es 350 for $379 a month, for 36 months, and we'll make your first month's payment. experience amazing.

but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? when democrats step on stage tonight and tomorrow in detroit, we know one thing will be similar to their last debate in miami. the sheer size of this field. 20 candidates up on these stages. 23 total running. it's a pretty glaring feature of the early race that people know about which makes it a news item and a punch line. >> a flood of democratic candidates all trying to pull ahead of the pack. >> there's an old african saying, if you keep quiet for long enough, you can hear a new democrat joining the presidential race. >> this big field is in just cited as a fact. pundits suggest it is some kind of negative because it's confusing leaving basically many

struggling to decide or democrats are courting "disaster" or there's this challenge for the party's donors, parts of the race that feel like competition within one pot on the donations, 23 democrats raised a combined total that's less than clinton and obama combined at this point in their primary. as we head into tonight's crowded debate, here are facts to keep in mind for the conventional wisdom that maybe the democrats have too many candidates. first, it is true our brains like choices but not too many. cognitive experts call this choice overload and it's been documented. there's books about the psychological challenges of getting hit with too many choices. one study suggests we basically struggle to identify any big important differences after about six choices. that's why is politico has this story, too many democrats are running in 2020 according to science and why malcolm gladwell, the author of best

selling books told us the field is too large for most people to make sense of. >> if you are thinking about this from a purely rational perspective and you would legitimately like to know who is the best candidate or who is the candidate who most, best matches your own sense of where the country ought to be going, it is all but impossible with a field this large. >> so 23 candidates isn't the ideal number or our minds individually. but is it a good number for a party hosting a large primarile? republicans had a famously large field last cycle 17 and went on to win the electoral college. with 2008 was quite an open race because there was nos top official running from are the incumbent bush administration. obama's path to the white house wasn't ruined by running against seven pretty famous dems including biden, his later vp or clinton his later secretary of state. while the field was not as large as this year, the competition made for a very long calendar. clinton insisted on running till

the last state. back then pundits said clinton staying in would hurt obama as the nominee just like today people worry about the large field. competitive primaries in those often unforgotten states didn't hurt obama, might have helped. which brings us to the third and final point. the political question is not whether a large field initially makes the decision more complicated for voters. it does. more choices take time. the political question though is different. that's how a large primary shapes the party's standing. consider a race when democrats were desperate to win back the white house as republicans -- post nixon, post watergate when 16 candidates were running in '76. it was a highly competitive time. >> the race is believed to be so unpredictable that a relative handful of votes may decide the outcome. >> the closest presidential primary ever held in new hampshire is over and olympian ford squeaked to victory by a

peculiar gin of 1300 votes. >> for the first time the nbc news poll showed carter making a strong showing as a contender. >> few experts thought a georgia peanut farmer would come out on top. large primaries helped him prove he could stand out. the choice may have provided more time for votes to learn about him. it's not just when there are more candidates running, it's what they're doing. in another year when democrats did lose, '84, jesse jackson ran on a platform many called extreme at the time. free community college, and a rainbow coalition of human rights for all. >> our pligs to feed the hung drig,ings to clothe the naked, to house the homeless, to be teach it the illiterate, to provide jabs for the jobless and to choose the human race over the nuclear race.

>> and jackson problems he wasn't political fringed. that year jesse jackson won one out of every five votes in the primary, he won five primaries outright and registered millions of new voters as democrats who were tuning in partly for him. the dynamic is back in play right now. this large democratic field generating a large amount of interest. 33 million people watched the first debates. we'll see if that continues tonight and tomorrow. you take it together and the trends are pretty clear. more choices are hard, they can be mentally exhausting. but that exhaustion comes from working out. which is the thing that makes you stronger. and building up a political movement can be like building a muscle. you have to work it. wasn't it the great emcee missy elliott who asked, is it worth it? let me work it. you know, trump won the electoral college after a long, large primary. if democrats want to flip that and reverse it, they may need to

get through a long large primary of their own. now up next, donald trump's intel chief pick is hitting all kinds of turbulence. we'll explain. hitting all kinds of turbulence. we'll explain. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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one of the republicans who posed some searching questions for bob mueller in the big hearing is on deck to enter the trump administration if he can get past headlines like this. intel officials unloading on congressman john radcliff has the least qualified person ever nominated to this post. fellow republicans wants him to prove he can move beyond the diehard persona he's had to protect intel's independence. radcliff touting how he put terrorists in prison as a prosecutor citing his work on a specific terror case. but it turns out his name doesn't even appear in any of the traial record for that case

and no evidence he ever prosecuted any terror cases. even in gop hands, not every republican pick gets through with trump. his last two names floated for the fed failed to get through the fed after new reporting unk their nominations. i'm joined by joyce vance, former federal prosecutor. >> good to see you, ari. >> on this bit about him claiming he was involved in cases that he wasn't, how big a deal is that for someone with this track record? >> you know, it seems to me that it's a very significant overclaim to say that you put terrorists in jail when you didn't. i puckett that when the record is finally reviewed, it will reflect that as assistant united states states attorney with responsibilities for terrorism and national security, he did oversee investigations and the fact that they didn't go to trial might be important, it might not be, but the reality is that even as a prosecutor, if he had been doing serious terrorism

cases, let's say he actually had been the lead prosecutor on the holy land case which it's clear he was not, that alone doesn't qualify you to be the dni. the skill sets are very different, diplomacy and prosecution. >> you're suggest that he's hyping a thing that he didn't do which even if he did it might not be enough which again goes to the wobbly start of this. i was in the room with him and mr. mueller during that hearing. i watched him and i actually thought and i reported some of his questioning was very effective in substantively reckoning with mueller's approach to the report even if people disagree. it was not strictly the kind of name calling that we've seen from the president. take a look at one moment from that hearing. >> americans need to know this as they listen to the democrats and socialists on the other side of the aisle. volume 2 of this report was not authorized under the law to be written. i agree with the chairman. this morning when he said he

said donald trump is not above the law. he's not. but he damn sure shouldn't be below the law which is where volume 2 of this reports him. >> he has every right in that role as a politics on the committee to make that case against the mueller report and to some degree against mueller. how does that experience which we could argue is pretty recent, right, joyce? i remember interviewing you about that hearing recently. how does that political posture differ from what he would be called on to do and what would the core of his job be in this new post if confirmed? >> you know, those comments made for good theater, but they weren't truthful. it was disingenuous. he was twisting the lawen a suspect that he knew that if he was as good of a prosecutor as he claims to be. and that has nothing to do with the sort of independence that we expect from the dni. this is someone who for instance, with coates' dni, when the president came out and said

rush yad wasn't responsible for election interference, coates was quick to sigh no, we've got direct evidence. that's what the intelligence community needs because the dni is the person who leads the intelligence community. that mission was created after 9/11 and this is sort of the person who replaced the director of the cia passed individual who leads the combined intelligence agencies. what we don't need is for donald trump to place a bill barr at the head of the intelligence community. >> all important food for thought. former u.s. attorney joyce vance. thank you so much. >> thanks, ari. >> we're going to fit in a break and turn to a beat exclusive. barbara rez on the false statements about 9/11. >> i was down there also. and i'm not considering myself a first responder, but i was down there. spent a lot of time down there with you. n there. spent a lot of time down there with you eaf blowers. [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out.

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congress finally acted to guarantee health care for 9/11 victims and firefighters. this is a fight led my many public servants from new york as well as jon stewart who spoke tirelessly about the bravery of first responders. now at the ceremony signing this bill into law is, donald trump got in on the action. he said while he doesn't consider himself a first responder, he was down there. >> many of those affected were firefighters, police officers, and other first responders. and i was down there also.

but i'm not considering myself a first responder but i was down there. i spent a lot of time down there with you. >> fact check false. and former top trump org exec barbara rez is here to break this down. see worked at the real estate company that donald trump also plugged when he called into a local tv news station to discuss those horrific attacks. >> 40 wall street actually was the second tallest building in downtown manhattan and it was actually before the world trade center was the tallest. and when they built the world trade interest, it became known as the tauflest and now it's the tallest. >> i play that clip not because it's a lie and it was not that tall. but because of the portrait of the mind that on 9/11 is still plugging things on the radio. donald trump can't help himself when it comes to 9/11. a signal event for new yorkers,

americans and the world. but he does really manage to overreach here. why is that. >> you know, he's he's a tremendous opportunist. 9/11 is something you can run with and he has run with before and i think he's taking advantage of the fact that he can get his name in the paper, all over the paper. but more momentum, bring up some stories, talking about trump was there at 9/11. and imagine him saying i don't consider myself a first responder. well, how would anyone ever consider him a first responder? stupid statement. and yet, you know, that's how much involved i was. i was almost a first responder. >> yeah, have you ever heard of this term humblebrag? >> no. >> humblebrag is when. >> a humblebrag. >> yeah. >> sure. >> so you're bragging and then you add something in to deflect it. this is the closest trump would come to to prending to be humble. in saying i don't consider

myself a first responder he's injecteding the false claim that someone anywhere might have thought he was doing first responding when he was plugging his building that day. >> absolutely. i'm going to tell you a little story. >> you know what, barbara? >> yes? >> tell us a story. >> we had a tragedy in the trump organization. there were three people, two top executives of the atlantic city casinos and one very high up gentleman. and they came to new york for a press conference at the plaza. and then they went back to atlantic city, and the helicopter crashed and they all died, and it was a horror. it was a horror for everybody. >> he writes about this in one of the books. >> well, you know, i haven't read his books, i confess, but i will tell you this. it wasn't very long after that that he was putting out the word that he was supposed to be on that plane or that helicopter, and he didn't at the last minute. he got pulled off the plane,

other words he'd be dead now. total, total lie. >> inserting himself into the story people he knew, he knew he wasn't going to be on the plane, they died and he inserted himself. >> he said look, i was supposed fob on that helicopter and i'm just lucky, making news. making himself part of the story, a very important story and undermining the fact that three people died, just like he is undermining in what happened in 9/11 by exploiting it. >> and that brings us to the other piece of this, because this is such a pattern, as you say. this is not just him saying something stupid without anyone connected. we're literally showing a story we've been covering here for weeks, which is whether there is going to be funding for these people who did to the valor on 9/11. he also is claiming, and i'm going play this for you, he says he predicted osama bin laden. you worked around him. was he reading a lot of foreign affairs and doing counter intel type research? did you see a lot of that? >> no. >> did you see him with maps of the middle east?

hold on, i'm busy, barbara. i'm looking at afghanistan. well, take a listen. >> i was down there, and i watched our police and our firemen down on 7-eleven, down at the world trade center right after it came down. everyone who helped clear the rubble, and i was there, and i watched, and i helped a little bit. you know, trump predicted osama bin laden, which actually is true, and then two years later, a year and a half later, he knocked down the world trade center. >> i watched when the world trade center came tumbling down, and i watched in jersey city, new jersey where thousands and thousands of people were cheering. >> let me go ahead and ask you an impossible question. was it worse that he referred to it as 7-eleven in that clip or that he said that trump predicted osama bin laden? >> that's a tough one. >> that's a tough one. >> i think the 7-eleven is probably the most ridiculous,

because we've come to know trump and we can understand that he might predict, that he predicted, he say he predicted osama bin laden. but 7-eleven, that's pretty bad. and again, this is seizing the moment and, you know, jumping on this is -- look, i was part of this. this is first responder. and thaw now it all comes up. it's in all the papers. everyone is talking about it, so he jumps on it. oh, i was a first responder. of course. i'm supporting this. the fact that it went through, look at me, this is great. i really appreciate what these guys are doing. i'm part of it. >> yeah. it's -- it's ridiculous mixed with offensive. i always love you coming by. >> thanks. >> can i tell you something funny? >> sure. >> we can keep it real here. >> yeah. >> the times that i feel least like i'm on tv is when you're here. >> thank you. that's very nice. >> you know? because i feel like we're just talking. >> right. >> i hope other people feel that

way. but we could grab a bagel and coffee and just talk about this crazy world. >> it's a crazy world. >> barbara rezze, i hope you come back. fantastic. we're going take a little break, and then california governor gavin newsom has a new law that could make trump release his taxes or get kicked off a ballot. we'll hear from him next. distracted teenager has the car. at subaru, we're taking on distracted driving [ping] with sensors that alert you when your eyes are off the road. the all-new subaru forester. the safest forester ever.

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debate things to tell you. one is i'll be back as part of our special debate coverage, 10:00 p.m. eastern tonight. i'll have an interview with california governor newsom who is fighting to get president trump's tax returns or kick him off the ballot. there is a new bill that would force five years of returns out. this is brand-new news. i'll show you that when i talk to him later tonight. also, an interview we are looking forward, to 11-year-old jaden jefferson who has again a little viral after joining the elizabeth warren press pool. >> what separates you from the other candidates? >> i can only tell you about why i'm in this fight. >> as an outspoken critic of the president what do you think is the worst policy he initiated? >> i guess it's probably taking children away from their families. >> thank you for joining us, senator warren. >> thank you for having me. >> and stay with us for continuing coverage of tomorrow's debates, and we're going have the latest from the fox theater. >> incredible. we're going get into that and a whole lot more, 10:00 p.m.

eastern tonight, decision 2020 with jaden followed by brian williams and our whole team doing our special debate coverage. don't go anywhere because one of our guests from earlier this hour is now in the hot seat. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. who can beat this guy? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in the city of detroit. an hour from now, ten of the presidential candidates will compete in the second democratic debate here. each will be auditioning to show he or she can beat the guy who continues to fan the flames of racial hostility and division in this country for his own personal and political benefit. that's where we begin tonight, with him. president trump is defending his