stand against trump, or risking anybody leaking that information in a way that might embarrass the president. that, of course, is a capital offense in the republican party right now. that's going to do it for us tonight. tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. it's time for "the last word". >> good evening. your interview was extraordinary as was her testimony today to congress. >> thank you. i was very honored that she took the time at the end of what must have been an exhausting day to come here and be on live with us. i couldn't believe it when she said yes. it was an honor. >> we are going to have her doctor on later in this hour. and there is no resolution about what happens next in these cases. we don't know. >> and the date that her -- she and her family have been told to get out of the country is saturday, and they haven't had that revised. there's public assurances to the

press, don't worry, we'll consider your application. as far as they're concerned with official communications with the government, they're required to get out. >> today would be a good day to clarify it, as would several days before today. it's outrageous we are where we are. >> and the families are stranded. >> thank you, rachel. one of the master minds of senator barack obama's successful presidential campaign in 2008 has advice, important advice for the democratic candidates in tomorrow night's debate. he's urging them to make the most of an issue that most of them have ignored in the debates. we will have that for you at the end of this hour along with a new round of the worst polling yet for president trump in one on one matchups with democratic candidates. all five of the top polling democratic candidates are ahead of donald trump in one on one polls with margins from a four-point lead to a 15-point lead over donald trump.

we will have the details of that poll for you at the end of the hour, and we have an exclusive interview tonight with today's defender of democracy who went viral for standing up to the republican speaker of the house of representatives in north carolina, democratic state representative deb butler. she'll join us tonight. and you'll want to see the video of what she had to do in the north carolina house of representatives today with republicans trying to turn off her microphone in what "the charlotte observer" called a stunning display of contempt for democracy. but we begin tonight with donald trump once again making a trump problem much worse. today donald trump's john bolton problem got much worse. no one makes donald trump's problems get worse better than donald trump. so today when he was asked about john bolton, donald trump would not resist taking shots at john bolton, attacking john bolton. calling john bolton not smart. john bolton resisted responding to donald trump's provocation.

well, john bolton didn't completely resist. he said some very important words. john bolton said i will have my say in due course. that was first reported as a text john bolton sent to "the washington post" and soon nbc news confirmed those exact words from john bolton today, i will have my say in due course. it would have been much better for donald trump if john bolton decided to have his say today and get it over with, but on this, at least, john bolton is much, much smarter than donald trump. john bolton is going to have his say. he is going to respond to the insults that donald trump threw at him today. but john bolton is going to control the timing and the form of his response to donald trump. john bolton has already written one book of memoirs of serving in a republican presidential administration. today he has the makings of a book that could outsell any book ever written by a member of a

presidential administration. and a book that could destroy the trump reelection campaign. i will have my say in due course. might due course be, oh, a year from now in september or october of 2020? at the height of the presidential campaign? might that be the moment for john bolton to release his second memoir of service to a president? might that be when and how john bolton has his say? and what would that book do to the trump reelection campaign. donald trump should be very worried about john bolton's next book. this is a -- there is a small group of new york literary agents to handle books like this, and they would all advise john bolton to have his say in a book and to maximize the value in the marketplace, john bolton should say nothing between now and when the book comes out. that means that every day of

john bolton's silence becomes more ominous for the trump campaign. one of the clues of what would be in such a book was offered to "the washington post" today by a course identified as one of bolton's allies speaking on the condition of anonymity, and that ally told "the washington post" that bolton was not surprised by trump's latest outburst after working alongside him and becoming familiar with his behavior. that is the story that john bolton has to sell to book publishers working along side him and becoming familiar with his behavior. every detail of the behavior that john bolton witnessed or heard about. john bolton is in a position to become the best-selling author ever of an inside the trump white house book, and he has enough time to write one and get it published at the height of the presidential campaign, and that book could be worth several

million dollars. a life-changing amount of money for john bolton, and so obviously if there is anyone working in the trump white house who actually has donald trump's best interest in mind, that person would have told donald trump today not to antagonize john bolton. not to say what he said about john bolton today. >> i follow on your decision yesterday to mr. bolton. what led you to decide to part ways? >> so john is somebody that i actually got along with very well. he made some very big mistakes when he talked about the libyan model for kim jong-un. that was not a good statement to make. you just take a look at what happened with gaddafi. that was not a good statement to make. it set us back, and frankly, he wanted to do things not necessarily tougher than me. john is known as a tough guy.

he's so tough he got us into iraq. that's tough. but he's somebody that i actually had a very good relationship with. but he want getting along with people in the administration that i consider very important. and i hope we've left in good stead, but maybe we have and maybe we haven't. >> in washington if you think maybe you haven't parted on good terms, you haven't. >> and you know, john wasn't in line with what we were doing, and actually, in some cases he thought it was too tough what we were doing. mr. tough guy. you know, you have to go into iraq. that was something he felt strongly about. we're over $7 trillion into the middle east, and i don't say it was his decision. you had a president and other people also, but he was very out there, i can tell you. and wanting to have them do it. >> yes, that's right. donald trump was attacking john bolton for what john bolton did and said 16 years ago which

donald trump knew about when he hired john bolton. donald trump just couldn't stop attacking john bolton, and even managed to squeeze in a defense of kim jong-un while he was attacking john bolton. >> but we were set back very badly when john bolton talked about the libyan model. and he made a mistake. and as soon as he mentioned that, the libyan model, what a disaster. take a look at what happened to gaddafi with the libya model, and he's using that to make a deal with north korea? and i don't blame kim jong-un for what he said after that. and he wanted nothing to do with john bolton. and that's not a question of being tough. that's a question of being not smart to say something like that. >> not smart to say something like that. donald trump is surely going to find out that it was not smart to say something like that about john bolton today. leading off our discussion

now rick stangle, a former undersecretary of state in the obama administration. his memoir of working inside the obama administration is coming up soon. he's an msnbc political analyst. maria, former deputy chief of staff to president clinton and a lecturer at berkeley law school is with us. and rick wilson, a contributor to the daily beast. he's the author of "everything trump touches dies". rick, the president clearly doesn't understand what he's dealing wi ijohn bolton. john bolton is going to write a book. people in his position write these books. and this -- it sounded like a threat today when john bolton said i will have my say in due course. >> i they that's the title of book right there. i don't agree with john bolton about many things. certainly not about iraq or

iran. but i certainly agreed with john bolton when he thought it was a crazy idea to have the taliban come to camp david and have a negotiation with donald trump. what he had right was he was willing to speak truth to power and say some of these ideas are just crazy. they're not within the normative window of what public policy is. the reason his book will be very good is that he understands how you make foreign policy and understands just how far outside the window of acceptable practice donald trump is, and that will be what he says when he's having his say. >> rick, imagine if you will, that a john bolton book comes out a year from now in september as the trump campaign is chugging along, anywhere from 15 to 7 or 8 points behind the democratic nominee according to tonight's polling, anyway. john bolton has within his power right now the ability to just kind of wipe out the trump campaign were he to time a book with that kind of intention. >> well, i think john bolton is

one of these characters who is a rarity in washington. john doesn't really care about politics, but he does care about security. you can disagree with his approaches on various things, but the guy never one day in his life said hey, i'm going to do something about iran or iraq or anything else because i think it will be great for me in the election. but he will be conscious of the fact that trump is going to try to frame himself as this particularly potent deal-maker and negotiator and international leader. i think he's got the chance to stick the knife in right into trump's soft underchin at the right moment if he chooses to do so. >> maria, there's a reason there's a certain kind of public ritual at these kind of departures, and both sides tend to be very complementary of the other, even if they don't really

mean it. a lot of that has to do with protecting the position in the inevitable memoirs. >> well, part of it is that. but frankly, and this is where -- one of the ricks said, i disagree so much with john bolton, but he has a belief in policy concerned about the country's security. i think it's misguided, but it's about protecting the institution. and so the fact that trump didn't understand that, frankly, for me the greatest concern is if bolton -- bolton should be talking right now about what he's seen, because he knows how dangerous the world is. and he probably has tremendous insight about how chaotic substantively and procedurally this administration and this

president is, and that's dangerous. i feel like he has an obligation to start talking right now, but perhaps money -- money. >> well, and also rick, go back to the campaign issue. if john bolton has seen how dangerous donald trump is, if he believes donald trump is danger in the presidency, dangerous remaining in the presidency, he's looking at the democratic candidates. there's not one of them that would have invited the taliban to camp david. there's not one of them who will exchange love letters with kim jong-un. john bolton has to look at democratic candidates and say if he believes what he thinks that the country would be better off in foreign policy terms with one of them. therefore, the most effective time to speak, the most effective time to unload is september of 2020 and stop the

trump campaign. >> yes. i suspect you're right, that he would think any of the democratic nominees would be better than donald trump. but to pick up on maria's point, i think he does have an obligation to say something. jim mattis as just come out with a book. he says i still have the quaint old fashion notion that i shouldn't talk about a president who is in power. well, that is a quaint notion, but if you're the secretary of defense or the national security adviser and your job is to protect national security and you see the president of the united states who is meant to protect our national security being the greatest threat to you, you have a moral obligation to speak out. >> james mattis took an oath to protect the constitution of the united states not the president of the united states. it's his own personal notion and one possibly obtained through customs in the military. it's led him to deliver a book everybody is ignoring because he's not telling the story of the experience to be working with donald trump, to be in the room with donald trump. >> i think one of the great difficulties that we've seen

sort of in a second order effect is all these people that he's turned through in the national security side of the equation is not leaving because they're not competent. they're leaving because they can't work in a system that's so random and constantly chaotic driven by trump's ego, trump's impulses. and now driven by the fact that donald trump is to the left of bernie sanders and everybody else. this character of taliban trump this week, john bolton was fired for being insufficiently favorable to the taliban and insufficiently favorable to the iranian mullahs. that's a bizarre world. people inside have a responsibility to say the truth and speak out whether their timing is settlement or now, they have a responsibility so stand up and say this guy is crazier than you can imagine. his judgment is more dangerous than you can imagine. he's an existential threat to

this country. >> i got to say that inviting the taliban to camp david is not a left or extreme left idea. you don't get to the left of bernie sanders with that idea. i mean, it might be a rand paul idea. i don't know, but it doesn't live on the left side of our politics. i want to go to something that's interesting about what donald trump is fixated on. it's when john bolton actually defined what he thought denuclearization meant in terms of north korea, and he used a definition that was what most people were using at the time. and that is what donald trump was finding fault with today when he was talking about the so-called libya model. it was an exchange on fox news that john bolton had. let's watch that. >> okay. so let's talk about your position, the u.s. position

going in. what the u.s. wants from kim. will president trump insist that kim give up, ship out, all of his nuclear weapons, all of his nuclear fuel, all of his ballistic missiles before the u.s. makes any concessions? >> yeah. i think that's what denuclearization means. and we have very much in mind the libya model from 2003 and 2004. there are differences. the libyan program was much smaller but that was basically the agreement that we made. >> maria, it seems the problem that john bolton got in there with donald trump is he actually defined denuclearization which is something donald trump refuses to do. >> not only did trump refuse to do it. he also listening to today's comments, he referenced gaddafi and focussed on the ultimate of what happened in libya not understanding what bolton was talking about. i think going back to this question of does bolton have an obligation, i think at this

moment everyone -- how much more proof do we need about what is going on? you would normally -- mattis, you don't undercut a sitting president because you don't want to weaken the president. but frankly, we have so much evidence of how incompetent this president is, it's almost like someone needs to tell the emperor he has no clothes. that this is -- it's time. it's time. >> maria, rick, rick, thank you all for starting us off tonight. i appreciate that. and when we come back the republican dirty tricks in north carolina this morning that the governor calls their most deceptive stunt yet. the democratic governor is fighting with the republican house of representatives. but the woman you see right there is going to join us. she's the one who fought for democracy in the house in north carolina today, deb butler joins us next.

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we have an exclusive interview tonight with deb butler, because today the democratic state representative deb butler finally had enough from the republican speaker of the north carolina house of representatives tim moore, and deb butler went viral today letting tim moore know exactly how she feels. >> mr. speaker, you are making a

mockery of this process. you are deceiving all of north carolina. your leadership is an embarrassment to the history of this great state. at this moment in time, you are doing the unspeakable. is this the legacy you want? >> "the charlotte observer" described what happened in the north carolina house today as a stunning display of contempt for democracy. here is the sequence of events as described by "the charlotte observer". tim moore called a surprise vote to overturn democratic governor roy cooper's veto of the state budget just after a session opened at 8:30 a.m. wednesday. democratic lawmakers and the media had been told by republican leaders that there would be no vote in the morning. enough republicans aware of the secret plan were there. with only 64 of the house's 120 members present, the vote to override passed 55-9. if all democrats had been

present, the vote to override could not have passed, because the veto override requires 67% of the vote of the members present. the charlotte observer said, not only was the house vote dishonest. it was carried out by a republican majority that courts have repeatedly found to have gained seats through illegal gerrymandering. it was an illegitimate majority acting in an unethical way. when representative deb butler rose to object, she was not recognized to speak by the speaker. republicans attempted to turn off her microphone. she kept speaking, switching microphones to find one that would work while republicans called capital police into the chamber. democratic colleagues of deb butler's surrounded her. in the video you'll hear some of them talking about not letting anyone touch her. they were there to protect her as she spoke. the few democrats in that room were going to make sure that deb butler got to speak and do what

they could to make sure she would not be arrested for exercising her rights as a member of the north carolina house of representatives. and luckily one of her colleagues had the presence of mind to grab a cell phone camera and start recording video. here's how it began. >> process. you shall not do this to democracy in north carolina, mr. speaker. how dare you do this, mr. speaker. i will not yield. >> we're not going to let anybody touch her. >> i will not yield, mr. speaker. i will not yield. >> there is no -- >> you shall not disrupt the process, mr. speaker. how dare you subject this body to trickery, deceptive practices, hijacking the process. we have been here day and night

for months defending what we believe. and you would submit this body to trickery, deception, deceit? it is so typical of the way you conduct yourself. how dare you, mr. speaker. >> joining us now for an exclusive interview is democratic state representative deb butler. thank you for joining us tonight. i hope you still have your voice left so that you can tell us what happened there. so where were you? how did you discover what was happening on the house floor? >> thank you, lawrence, for having me. i tell you, i'm chronically punctual in all things. i happened to be there early. i knew there were no votes, but because it was 9/11, i thought we'll have the pledge of allegiance and prayer. some commemorative speakers. by luck i was there and saw it begin to unfold and was just --

aghast, and tried to intervene as best i could. >> and you've all known this could happen if you didn't have enough of your members there at any given time, so you've been kind of steadfastly making sure that you always had enough people there to block any attempt to do this, to override the governor's veto of the budget. what's at stake for you and the democrats and the governor in the budget? >> you know, lawrence, north carolina is a place that used to be revered for public edminated because we have not fully funded our department of environmental quality. our schools are crumbling because of a lack of infrastructure. and we have the working poor, of course, who have not enjoyed health care because of our failure to expand medicaid. it's a travesty, and governor cooper has fought very hard as

have i and our colleagues. we have been steadfast. i'm one of the whips in our caucus. i have asked people to forego cancer treatments. i have asked them to come after surgery. i have asked them to miss anniversaries and birthday parties and first days of kindergarten so when i saw the speaker about to rob my colleagues of their hard work, it was more than i could bear, and i think you saw that. it was a day that i'll never forget, and i'm humiliated north carolina has sunk to this level, and, again, i will not yield, lawrence. i will not yield. >> that was very clear today, and the governor speaking earlier on msnbc said that what they did today was a lie. they lied to you about what was going to happen there this morning. and then they got together

basically to sneak this one by you all. >> it's telling, lawrence, that there was no media in the chamber. we have had a plethora of cameras all day every day. i'm informed one of the reporters has a text message from the speaker of the -- excuse me, the chairman of the rules committee saying there would be no votes. hence the absence of media. and you're right, had my colleague not caught it on video, it would have gone by. and it would have been unknown to anyone, and so i'm so thankful he did that. we're trying to sanitize north carolina with the lie today, call these things into clear focus and -- do what we can. >> were you aware that the republicans had called in the police, the police, and they were approaching you and that's why your colleagues were

physically surrounding you? >> i gathered that pretty quickly. i saw them out of the corner of my eye. i heard my other colleague candy smith say, we're not going to let anybody touch her. heard someone else say no, sir, not today. the sergeant at arms was there. he cut my microphone off. in fact, the speaker cut my microphone off. i kept turning it back on and continued to shout. you know, it's a tragic day in north carolina politics, honestly. we used to be known as the shining star of the south, and now we are a place of scorched earth politics, and i am as proud as i can be to be a north carolina democrat. we gained ten seats on them in the midterms, and this has put steel in the spine of every person in my caucus. i cannot tell you the deluge of

support i have received from republicans. not the -- not the ones on the house floor, but republicans across north carolina, independents, people from indiana, tennessee, across this country, and they're saying to me things like you said what we're all thinking. i'm just -- i'm glad that it turned out that way, and i'm thrilled that i was able to be a part of it. >> you did not yield, and your voice was heard all over the country. north carolina state representative deb butler, thank you very, very much for joining us tonight on this very difficult day for you. really appreciate it. >> thank you very much. up next, you have seen maria isabel bueso, she testified to congress. we'll show you more of her testimony today. her doctor will join us as the deadline for her deportation continues to approach on saturday with no clarifications

from the trump administration that she will not be deported. and later, important advice from david bluff to the democratic candidates for tomorrow night's debate. there's an issue he wants them to really go after donald trump on instead of going after each other. we'll have that for you later in this hour. places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. it's an honor to tell you that [ applause ] thank you. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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a sub committee held a hearing about the new trump administration policy of deporting people including children in the united states for life-saving medical treatment. that's what the hearing was about. the trump administration policy to send people to their deaths by deporting them from the one place in the world where they can receive life-saving

treatment. and this, this was the first republican question asked at that hearing. >> why would having an open border policy pose a security risk? >> that's what they were thinking about when they had people in front of them who would die, will die into the trump administration policy of deporting them is carried out. rachel maddow has been leading our coverage on this story for two weeks. she was joined in the last hour by maria isabel beuso. here is some of what isabel told the house oversight committee today. >> would affect 2000 people in the world, and this is a rare disorder. my life expectancy was very

short and the doctor said i might not live into my teens. after the time of my diagnosis, there were no approved therapy. in 2001, i met a doctor at usf at a hospital in oakland who had a treatment. he was desperately needing more patients to participate in the research. i was selected for the trial and my family was invited to come to the u.s. so i could participate in the study. the first time i participated and -- thanks to the study all the trials now have a safe and effective treatment that will help them live longer and have a higher quality of life. doctors told me that if i stopped the treatment, my condition would decline quickly and i could die within months. after the approval my family relocated to california so i

could continue receiving this life saving treatment. my parents live a middle class life. my father is a computer engineer and sponsor for an h-1 visa so he could provide for us. in 2009 we petitioned for a change in status. we were granted it for humanitarian reasochanging poli denied. i want to live. i am a human being with hopes and dreams in my life. >> i want to live. she actually had to tell the republicans that on the committee. i want to live. and they still wouldn't ask her about why she was actually there. after this commercial break, we will be joined by the doctor who has been keeping maria isabel beuso alive. the doctor who invited her to come to this country to participate in the medical

studies which have successfully kept other patients, other kids alive. thanks to isabel's participation. one of the real heros of this story joins us next. ♪ ♪ ♪

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now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? last hour. >> today was the hearing, and it was a great opportunity to share my story of the situation, and what's going on. and i hope that after today both parties can really take attention to this nightmare, this situation i don't think any human being should go through. it has been overwhelming. devastating news. >> joining us now is the doctor who has kept isabel beuso alive longer than anyone thought possible when she was a child. dr. paul harmatz, thank you for joining us. i'm sorry to report to you that there was no resolution in

washington today of the looming deadline for deportation, and isabel has said she's still not sure what's going to happen. >> thank you, lawrence. we are really reaching the 11th hour, and i am feeling inspired by their testimony today. jonathan, isabel, the other panel members that were supporting their position, but as you just said, we don't see -- we don't see a resolution in front of us, and i just keep hoping that media pressure, support from congress, rational thinking, kindness, will turn the tables and this will be reversed by saturday.

>> well, i'm hoping it will. and it's the intention of what we're doing with these stories to help make that happen. but it's kind of stunning to me that isabel was visiting with kevin mccarthy today, the highest ranking republican member of the house of representatives, and kevin mccarthy picks up the phone and calls donald trump about things all the time, and there's no evidence that he did that today, and this is such an easy thing for the trump administration to clarify, and it just hasn't happened yet. >> they just -- at the hearings the disassociation of the questions versus the imminent death these patients are all facing if we stop therapy at this point, and i -- you know, i know isabel very -- 20 years of taking care of her, almost 20 years, but you know, i think

each of the cases, you're facing a death sentence, and it's -- as she was describing, she's tried as much as she can to lead a positive life to help other people, to teach, to advocate. she has a life-threatening illness and needs this therapy which is not available in guatemala, and i -- i'm just hoping just like you say that something will break in the next two to three days and we'll see a resolution. it is heart breaking, and can i see the exhaustion on isabel's face. she's a lively, vivacious person, and traveling to washington, having interviews, it's -- it's exhausting. she has a serious illness, and we're putting her through this entire process.

i think everybody's support is keeping her on track and it's gotten her this far, but i really worry about her health at this point. thank you. thank you, again, for your support, lawrence. for joining us again tonight, and please stay with us as we continue to cover this story. we really appreciate you joining us again tonight. thank you, doctor. >> thank you. when we come back, david plouffe has some very j very important advice for the presidential candidates debating tomorrow night. there's one issue he really wants them to bring to donald trump tomorrow night. not attack each other. go after donald trump on this one issue most of them haven't even talked about in the debates. that's next. you should be mad that this is your daily commute. you should be mad at people who forget they're in public. and you should be mad at simple things that are unnecessarily complicated.

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another round of devastating polling today for the president of the united states. and very strong polling against the incumbent president for the top five democratic candidates for president. a washington post abc poll shows the top five democratic candidates for president are polling in front of the president. joe biden is crushing donald trump in the poll by a 15 point margin. bernie sanders beats president trump by nine points.

senator harris leads trump 50-43. and pete buttigieg leads trump 57 i've 43. since the last time this poll was taken all of the democratic candidates have significantly increased their margins over donald trump. last night republicans squeaked out a two-point win in a north carolina congressional district that donald trump won by 12 points in 2016. today david wasserman identified 35 congressional seats that republicans will have to defend that donald trump won by less than 12% last time. all those districts are in play now that republicans are underperforming by ten points since 2016. after this break we'll be joined by wick wilson and neera tanden with their interpretations of the latest polls and we will get david plouffe's advice for the democratic presidential candidates on the debate stage tomorrow night. david plouffe, who helped mastermind barack obama's 2008 presidential campaign, says the democrats should all be going after donald trump on one big issue tomorrow night that most of those candidates have actually been ignoring on the debate stage.

david plouffe says the democrats should not be fighting each other tomorrow night, they should be fighting donald trump on this one big issue. that is next. you get more than free shipping. you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on. you get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. you get fast and free shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. that's what you get when you've got wayfair. so shop now! ♪ ♪ applebee's handcrafted burgers now starting at $7.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood

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now, there's skyrizi. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 3 out of 4 people achieved... ...90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections... ...and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection... ...or symptoms such as fevers,... ...sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs... ...or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. i feel free to bare my skin. visit skyrizi.com. the campaign manager for barack obama's first presidential campaign david plouffe has some very strong advice for the democratic candidates who will debate each other tomorrow night. he wants them to go after the president on the job loss from the trump trade war. he has tweeted almost a million jobs estimated to be killed by

the incompetence of our own president by election day. our candidates this thursday night must pound this more than each other. joining us now, neera tanden, former senior adviser to president obama and hillary clinton. she's the president and ceo for the center for american progress. and rick wilson is back with us. and neera, this subject of the trump trade war and the trump tariffs has not been emphasized as some of us might have expected it to be by the democratic candidates and certainly not by the questioners in the debate. and so it's hard for the candidates to try to steer over to something that the questioners generally have not been bringing up. but david plouffe i think has a very important point there. >> absolutely. and i think david is a thousand percent correct. i think that there's a real opportunity to talk about how donald trump is actually betraying the voters that he claimed he help. and he's made economic issues a

paramount concern. he's bragged about the economy. well, the way people think about the economy is in their paychecks and in job losses. and this is a cold, hard fact. 300,000 jobs lost because of the actions of a president. that is something i agree, every single democrat should be talking about tomorrow. >> and rick wilson, in what used to be the republican party, every republican senator would be on the floor of the senate every day attacking this president for the trump trade war. >> absolutely. because there was a time when republicans were the party of free trade and party of international trade because we recognized it had a net uplift to our economics in the country. and frankly, bill clinton started to move the democrats away from that pure anti-trade position of the past, and we benefited tremendously from the sort of bipartisan consensus on this. but you know, donald trump is -- there are about three economists in the country who believe trade

wars work. they all work for donald trump, and they're all morons. so here we are. >> neera, the new round of polling, these are extraordinary numbers against an incumbent. people who aren't used to looking at this kind of polling, to see an incumbent in any office being beaten in a one on one by a challenger by 15 points in the case of biden, nine points in the case of bernie sanders, seven points in the case of senator harris and senator warren. these are just kind of extraordinary numbers right now. >> yeah. and i think it's really important to unpack these numbers. what's clear from this polling is that not only is donald trump incredibly unpopular, not only do a strong majority, not a bare majority, a strong majority believe he should not be re-elected and believe that pretty strongly, but there are coalitions that voted for him, groups that voted for him in pretty strong numbers that have moves decidedly against him.

white non-college women were an important voting bloc for him. he won those voters by almost 2-1. they're now 42%, 43% support. that is a massive erosion for him. now, again, it's a year and a half. the democratic party has an ability to perhaps fumble a ball once in a while. i do hope that people don't gain comfort in this. we need to have a massive turnout operation. we need candidates who can withstand the withering assault that will come from trump. that is his one strategy for victory. it is to nuclear bomb the democratic nominee. so we need to be smart and strategic. but he has grave, grave challenges and is in probably the worst position of any incumbent president in decades. >> and rick, there's no evidence that anyone working around the trump campaign with donald trump is telling him anything about

what he has to do in the face of polls like this because there's not a day that goes by where donald trump publicly says one word that could nudge any of those people in the polls who've turned against him back in his direction. >> well, i actually think today the whole thing with the vaping thing, i think that's kellyanne whispering in his ear to go after something that suburban mommies, try to find an angle to get them back. and i do think that he is largely, though, immune to any sort of common sense or guidance. >> yeah. neera, you just watch him as a candidate and say what did he do today to improve polling numbers? without looking at any polls. you just look at what he does today and ask yourself, what did he do to improve his position? i never see him do anything that would improve his position. >> yeah. he never does anything that can get a voter who voted against him in 2016 to actually vote for him, which when you come to office with a minority vote might actually be something you're thinking about.

the one thing i would just quickly say is democrats still have to talk about the economy. that's why the trade numbers are so important. >> neera tanden, rick wilson, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thanks, lawrence. >> that is "the last word." "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. tonight on this september 11th, the 18th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, president trump attacked his now former national security adviser. he attacked the polls showing him losing to democrats in 2020. and attacked the reporting that he tried to change the weather forecast. meanwhile, at a federal prison in upstate new york inmate michael cohen has agreed to cooperate with prosecutors as the manhattan district attorney now investigates if the trump family business cooked the books to pay people off. and ten democrats now just hours away from their next debate. will they go after obama this time? will they attack cheeseburgers or donald trump?