tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC November 12, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
>> four hours from now the doors will be open on capitol hill, impeachment hearingings for the president of the united states. already preparing for what will be what will be a historic day, what is the mood? >> mlawmakerers are just trickling with in and there is increased gravity of the moment. congress has not done much more than keep the lights on. house members set bills to the senate where they died, but now in front of the entire country, they will be debating the most
c ground in a sense that you have seen people like nikki haley come out and sayty may not have been appropriate, but it is not impeachab impeachable. this is the most important thing that they will do in their publish service and we're getting that feeling. >> a fantastic team here. matt miller was chief spokes person for the justice department. and the nsc. and the senior white house reporter for nbc news. you have been reporting specifically specifically on the white house in the last 24 hours, how are they preparing
for tomorrow? >> this is something they called for. they wanted public hearings. there is a hope from the white house that a key element that comes out is distancing the president from these witnesses. house republicans they're hoping will make the argument that none of these people had direct conservations with the president. and of course the white house has so far effectively blocked anyone from testified who has had direct conversations with the president, for example chief of staff mick mulvaney. they have seen in past public hearings. they seem to not go as bad as expected. think about the cavanagh hearing. the mueller testimony, they're hoping that republicans can chip
away at the witnesses a little bit. the trump campaign are also really gearing up, we were told they have about 20 staffers and a rapid response team watching this, fact checking and watching social media. so i think it is not coming so much from the white house that is struggling with the communications team and the messaging team so far. >> is the white house playing ball at all? the argument in the beginning was yes, we'll put forward documents and give you people to talk to. they said we'll do this if there was public hearings and there are. when they first put out a letter saying they would not cop raope, they asked out official briefing
us, if democrats cooperate, and the senior official declined to comment, they say i will not comment on hypotheticals. the white house is still doubling down that they don't like how this process was carried out but they don't think they should have to cooperate because they don't see this as a valid investigation because as president said repeatedly he believes his call was perfect and that is the message that he will continue to convey. they are suggesting that is something impeachable. >> one, the call transcript shows no pressure. two, skbrkszelensky says there pressure, the ukraines were unaware the aid was delayed, and
it was ultimately given to them. any time you have the president talking to the president of another country that is not as powerful and that needs something there is inherent pressure. but you don't even have to look for it in the phone call. the president says i need a favor though immediately after he raises this question of buying military equipment from the united states. but it is not just any one phone call. there was a month's long campaign that the ukrainians were aware of. we found out to one of their other points we found out that the ukrainian government new early in the summer. even if they had not found out until late august, we know what happened then. they say if you don't give us
what we want, we will not give you the aid. it got caught because the whistle-blower came forward, te was take ton the hill, and they were caught. if they had not they would announce these two investigations. >> katrina, you were part of the nsc. in terms of holding up aid, how unusual is it for the chief of staff and the omb to approve this and the asians that -- aid. you have members of the career staff going to lawyers and reporting things they think are
unusual and an abuse of power. you have testimony that some of the same individuals came up with in the meetings. it must have been quite difficult for them and also quite unusual. so i mean we're seeing a lot here to is very outside of the norm of the way that the nsc operates. >> this is the first time you're on the show, but if you say the word unprecedented you have to pay more $2. now saying there is infighting in the white house. mick mulvaney against path s eerks palone. >> this is something we're hearing from the very beginning. these two are supposed to come together and help present the president on how to encounter this. as chief of staff, he wants to be the one driving the chip on
this. they argue this is a league issue that should be run out of his shop. the prop is both of these officials have full-time jobs. and the white house council's office is a massive operation on it's own. a lot of the president's add vie vors to what quarterback for the president, and be singularly focused and the white house of the president has yet to do that, they're bringing out a couple officials, pam bondi being one of those, but part of the reason some people think the white house has not been able to inflict it more, that is something that has been a hallmark of this white house. the factions, the infighting,
that we continue to see. >> we know that if they had something to say, wouldn't he be jumping at the jump to testify. >>. >> they had a chance to jump at the witnesses. they did not present mick mulvaney, mike pence, or other people that could come forward and put together an offense for the conduct. there is a chief of service plan, and they don't have a lot of good. if mick mulvaney's truth aligned with the president's truth, isn't that a mass i have win for
them. >> there is a reason you see them blocking any of the witnesses that are close to the president, people like mick mulvaney and others. it is one thing to go out and say something at a press conference, another thing to say it at an interview. there is another thing to come under oath. that is why i think you don't see others come forward. if they gave answers it would hurt the president. >> the gop wants to argument that the president's he was thinking about rooting out corruption. they argue that his mind-set did not do anything wrong. >> one of the ways you count near is looking at the mind-set and immediate actions of all of the people who weren't the
president who were becoming aware of this conspiracy. all of this is evidences in the way they thought they were doing something wrong. so he seems to be the only one that deny think this was wrong. >> he needs to show the american people what we need to see. one is fact finding and two is shining a light on issues for the american public. tomorrow they are shining the light on what happened and let the american people see for themselves and judge for themselves people like bill taylor. >> and the number one thing that republicans need to do? >> republicans need to be consistent with their oath of office. what they need to do if what they're trying to do is protect the president is stop the harm.
and try to create news moments that breakthrough, but that is a tall order with how focused the american public is on this right now. >> a very, very big day. thank you all so much for what we prepare on what will be a historic moment in american history. moving on, jimmy carter back in the president this morning as he awaits brain surgery. he will undergo a proceed your at emery hospital in atlanta to relieve pressure on his brain caused by bleeding from recent falls. he is the longest living president in u.s. history. coming up, more on the impeachment level fights. could infighting make it impossible for almosts to get on the same people age going on the echbsive.
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president obama and it allows children of illegal immigrants to remain in the united states if they were brought to the country by 2016. since 2016 the trump administration has been working to butt an end to the program. pete williams is joining me live, what is being argued? it is not just about the future of the program. all of these people currentfully it are at risk of deportation. >> right, all tied into the future of the program, they have to remove every two years, but here is the issue. if president obama could start this pram by presidential action, why can't president trump stop it by presidential action. and what the defenders are arguing, is we want to stop daka. they say we want to not stop
them. the trump administration said we have to thut it down because it is illegal. is it illegal. the trump administration says yes. that is the main problem here, but the defenders say this sort of thing has been done many times before by previous administrations granting parole saying you can stay in, we will not enforce the law against you. you can stay, go to work and college. and they say the trump administration didn't want to own shutting it down and said basically our hands are tied because it is illegal. one other question, the trump administration says you know what because it is an exercise of discretion, it is not reviewable by the court. president trump tweeted about this and he said that one problem with daca is that many of the daca recipients here, he
said many of them, no longer young, are far from angels, but you can't be in daca if you had a criminal conviction. you to show you're being a good citizen, you served in the military, gone to school, get a job, if the supreme court strikes daca down, he thinks there be a deal with congress, but in any event, the supreme court is probably not going to rule on this until next spring. >> pete, thank you so much. we'll be checking in later today. moving on, new violence taking place this morning after an is ra -- is raisraeli air strike kild
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welcome back, i'm stephanie ruhle. we talked legal strategy and now we have to talk politics. we're counting down the hours to one of the most consequential days of the trump presidency. they have stood united against impeachment, and on the other side of the aisle, how will democrats convince the public that the president needs to be removed less than a year from election day. joning me here is david rutger. and brett stevens, op-ed columnist for the "new york times." when the democrats are making their case, who are they
speaking to? >> i think they're talking to persuadable voters, districts that had red and blue members of cog, and i think it is really very simple. do you support a president who be sm besmerched an opponent, who lied to everyone about everything and now says all of that is okay. would you sfort in a democratic president in it is that settled. >> besmerching in the contest of someone with the power do to do it. if hillary clinton had done this, i know exactly where you
would fall down on the issue of impeachment. >> i'm talking about republicans that spoke against the president in the past, lawmakers like will hurd that we know is laeing office. how important is it for the president to keep a united front on these hearings. i'm not talking about jim jordan, but what about that small rest of republicans that play ball here. >> he needs to keep that fire wall. he needs to keep a united front. i would see the will herds of the republican party lean with staying with the president. they know they're leaving office but they're political future will they want to keep running or whether or not they want to make money by being lobbyists and lobby on behalf of republican and establishment interests, they need to keep a base cultivation and they know
that folks, your ground partisans, they have rose colored glasses. president trump is very good and very effective at show casing his side of the story. these are the democrats coming after him and these republicans that may be moderate know how the base reads president trump. so i think they will lean with the president unless there are very damming facts that casca cascading out. then i think you will see a slow pivot. >> it is just about looking at this through rose colored glasses or fulfilling the prediction that his supporter wills stand with him if he shot someone on fifth avenue. you have condoleezza rice saying this situation is deeply troubling. >> look i think all of this at the end of thestefanie is
about where republican voters are. particularly on an issue like this, it is those of those voters. they plan to be around here longer than trump. he probably has one more term. so one of the reasons they are hesitant to turn on the president is he set the terms of the debate. he is not parties baiting in the impeachment process. what he calls a witch hunt, a sham, and unfair, that is how they're dealing with the issue. it is possible there will be facts that come out that cause them to raise their eyebrows but i caution that at the very beginning there was many republicans who were raising their eyebrows and being very candid in that they would not
have done what the president did. they would not have said what president said, but however troubled they are, it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. if anything you have seen them move the goal posts to something having to do with a quid pro quo to look, at the end of the day, he didn't do anything that any any other president wouldn't have done. i hesitate to think that anything will change that. >> then how big of a d deal are the next few days. can republicans simply turning the president off and look the other way. circumstancy president erdogan is here. are they big enough distractions for republicans to ignore this hearing going on? >> they will be able to ignore
the hearing, but the lekly hood is whatever i think they think will trump be impeached in the house, but it will come down to what four republican senators might do. they are simply looking to history and i think that is when republicans get worried. he will talk about the strengths of the economy. the tricky thing is turkey is more interesting, it reminds us of the president's fascination with strong men in other countries. where it is putin, xi in china, or erdogan in turkey. he is a supporter of islamism. and he has a number one fan who
res in the white house. >> the problem with this is the process. they're going to be spinning that story that the whole thing is unjust. for democrats, do they need to be weaving their own narrative, or is it just about the witnesses tell their own story? >> i think it depends on which section of the democratic party we're talking about. >> what does that mean? >> if we're talking about bernie and elizabeth, the story is we have to hang them with this. this is damming information. we have to impeach right away. if you're more on the centrist lane, you're going to say let's hear the facts and see if there is legs here. see if they're willing to pull away and support the impeachment
process, so i think they're going to talk about what strategy to take. >> david, the president floated the idea of fire side chat reading what he calls a transcript, but it is a summary. how will this play tomorrow? >> no, i think he will be tweeting and trying to set the table in the morning like he did. i think this is a fascinating part of this. everybody for a change agrees on the facts at hand but they have different interpretations of the fact. the democrats say read the transcript. and when we read the president, he said you should read the transcript, but i believe in it so much he motioned to one of his aids and he said new t-shirt "read the transcript." and he had other ideas, and he talked about reading it aloud because he thinks it gets him
off of the hook. he was firm in that belief and it is the one thing he continued to stick with. and we got the sense in talking to him that he understands the gravity of this and the fact that he is likely to be the first president having been impeached but not removed. it bothers him, but he feels like at the end of the day the facts are on his side. i don't know how much the aids around him understand. i'm not sure that he understands because it didn't seem to faze him. >> vindman said the transcript omitted keywords and frass that he tried to get put back in. >> here is the t-shirt idea. i have nothing to do with this drug deal.
you could send that around. >> thank you all so much. still ahead, more and more former administration officials beginning to speak out but only to sell their own books. so why nothing until their out of the white house? plus the democratic presidential race could soon become even more crowded. this as the latest person to jump in, michael bloomberg is getting more disappointing poll numbers. disappointing poll numbers. at bayer, we create medicine that treats
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less than 3 months until the democratic caucuses, stormer massachusetts governor patrick now considering making a late bid for the president, this comes just days after michael r bloomberg
shoot up the race by getting on the ballot in an early direct state. joining me is the senior atlantic editor. an independent political strategy, and breatt stevens still with me. let's talk about the possible of duval patrick possibly jumping into the race. is there a lane. >> i think, i think there has been a team with him for a long time and he has a more difficult time just because everybody is
taken up, the donors are taken up, and he will have to plant himself and hope that everyone flames out around him. >> i think patrick
may have been a good candidate before bain capital, but he could just run the obama adds against him. if he wanted to get into the presidential race. >> brett, in your latest piece, you say run mike run. >> he has resources to do it, he defeats the strongest argument against the democrats, you have to vote for me. i think he was a pretty good
mayor of new york. >> i think he could beat trump, but could he defeat bloomberg. supporting stop and frisk is a deal breaker. crime murders were way down when mike was here. >> when he ran for reelection in 2005 as a a republican, he won close toe 50e% of the african-american vote. there is clearly a sense in the party that the field is currently split between moderates who don't have the sources, the gumption, the progressives that are probably unelectable. and this is something they can feel that the current field will not beat trump. >> do you see that lane?
>> i don't. i don't see much of a constituency for a democratic billionaire. >> what is your take in when we look at the new poll out of nachz, 54% of voters say they would not vote for him, but others say they would consider it, they were the front runners. >> i think it is an interesting time because you have the two top progressives in warren and stander. senator warren spent her time in the barrel and that is having an effect on her numbers. it is predicated on vice
president biden fading from the scene. he filed in alabama because he has to, right? these are the things that keep a door open. >> who do you think mike running hurts more? does he hurt biden more or elizabeth warren. very few of the centralists have landed a punch against warren. >> i don't think a bloomberg vote sere a warren voter. and they are saying that 54% said they would not, and under that arrhythmiarythmatic that m of them won't vote at all.
let's watch it. >> what is elitist about how she is pursuing medicare for all. >> it's the idea that we know better than people do about what they want. i was not talking about her, but the add tuesday that if you don't agree with me, sit down in the other party. more than anyone running. >> i think is this is joe biden at his best. she not a natural debater and we have seen that. that the normality of the guy, which i think draws him to the place. it turns the fade that we have t
piece about civility and that americans should not fear that form of tension. it is a risk for this kind of fire and furry exactly that reid was talking about, but shouldn't those two people's goal be to defeat trump. >> i'm not a political strategist, i can't tell you what best way to defeat trump is is, but i know what you end up with is an artificial elite consensus and politeness where poor people show, there is a
production for civility disagreement. we're going to get along and paper over differences. we discuss and disagree in a real way without staring at each others throats. we have self governance, when the president calls his opponents human scum, he is not advancing an argument, she is simply repelling a whole universe of people. i think this is a fairly facile idea to suggest that civility and as if sit is a type of secu that is not. when you look back at the midterms.
it is a call for the politics of personal destruction. he meant stop criticizing me. the truth is more important than whether or not we are being polite. >> the president leans toward reprehensible versus respectable. i come down from a political standpoint. i would love it if civilly woit works in these times. that's the thing, only one side is practicing it. right now you have the president that just unloads on everybody all of the time. i'm not saying you should match him word for word, but like a playground bully, if you let him do that he will just keep doing
it. >> up next, more and more high level officials leaving office. why did they wait so long. g offe why did they wait so long. at fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan to cover the essentials in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. because when you're ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward. o♪ ozempic®! ♪ oh! oh! (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®.
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trump administration officials are revealing their true feelings. one problem, they're waiting until they're out of the oval office and selling their own books. the latest example, former amd to the uv nikki haley is talking about how privately she stood up to the president behind closed doors. however, she stays far away from criticizing him. >> any question about his truthfulness, his ability to tell the truth? >> savannah, i talked to him multiple times and when i had issues he always heard me out. i never had any concern on whether he could handle the job ever. >> what about his truthfulness, did you think he was a truthful person? >> yes. in every instance that i dealt with him, he was truthful, he listened and he was great to work with. >> this comes as former national security adviser john bolton has just signed a book deal himself and mick mulvaney are at odds
over toestifying in the impeachment inquiry. the lawyer from bolton and his attorney went to court and said he has aligned himself fully and completely with the president and should not be allowed to join the lawsuit already filed. mulvaney then withdrew his effort to join the lawsuit and suggested he's going to pursue his own. joining me how white house correspondent peter baker. let's start with bolton. we've been saying for days that bolton is a wild card. he left the white house on bad terms with the president, but he's a lifetime republican. now that we know he doesn't want mick mulvaney in his same lawsuit, saying he's on trump's team, what does that tell you about what bolton has to say? >> i think it's very interesting and revealing. these are two men who were clashing while they were still in the white house, just feet away from each other. one in the southwest corner office and the other in the northwest corner. they were going head-to-head.
the ukraine thing brought it tot to a head. john bolton thought the shadow foreign policy was out of bounds and unwise and he called it a drug deal that mulvaney was part of. so this has now spilled over into bolton's post presidential life in the form of this lawsuit in the form of them saying -- bolton is saying i don't want him to be part of my lawsuit. now, it doesn't mean that if he testified he would necessarily, you know, testify to things that would be bad for the president. we assume that he will testify that he opposed what was going on. but we don't know for a fact exactly what he would say. the people around him have made clear that the testimony we've seen so far about his views of it as accurate, that he did resist this pressure on ukraine, he did think this was unwise and he thought giuliani was a hand grenade as he put it to one aide. but we don't know how the
testimony will play out if you were to sit down and talk to house investigators. >> and then knowing john bolton how you do, is his argument really more about how he sees foreign policy versus the president, a transactional guy who looks at countries like one deal after another, or is bolton believe successful foreign policy is about consistency and persistence? >> yeah, john bolton, he's not the most popular guy on some parts of washington, particularly on the left. he's a very consistent principled conservative who has very strong views throughout multiple administrations, even if it meant he was going against the prevailing winds within his own party. so i think the one thing that makes him an interesting possible witness is he's not likely to sugar coat his points of view if he does testify. he's going to tell you what he thinks. now, he is a life-long republican and he doesn't have any interest in damaging the party or damaging his own future in the party. at some point he has talked about running for president
himself, he already since leaving the white house reconstituted his action committee and picked five members of congress he's planning to raise money for. he wants a future in the republican party. i think that's one reason you see him going to court saying should i testify or not testify. i'm not taking the sides. the president has told me not to, congress told me i have to. let's get the court decide. if he ends up testifying because the court told him to, it's easier for him to say in the republican party in the future, look, i didn't want this. it was forced upon me and i had to tell the truth. >> nikki haley, who is her book and media tour the most damaging to? she speaks out against rex tillerson and john kelly, but at the end of the day you saw she was being very careful and artful dodging the question about the president being honest. is the person she's damaging the most mike pence, ie, possibly eyeing his seat? >> that's certainly the speculation. she left on good terms, one of the few people who has left on
her own terms and people were impressed with how she had done it. she seemed to have an independent image, not seen as too trumpy, if you will, but also loyal to trump. >> weren't those remarks pretty -- wouldn't you say she was pretty trumpy this morning? >> well, that's what i'm saying is now, a year later, she's really thrown herself into one side of the divide within the republican party. she's definitely subscribing herself to the trump side and she's saying basically in effect she thinks he's going to stick around and she might want to be part of the ticket. and if not, she might want to succeed him next time. >> thank you so much. we've got more to cover. we'll be right back. it was like that feeling when you go to taco night at your favorite restaurant. and they're the best-tasting tacos in the entire world. and just when you think it couldn't get any better, they bring you out another taco... ...cuz they made an extra one. ♪ extra taco!
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that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhl. i will see you at 1:00 p.m. and right now i hand off to ms. hallie jackson. >> thank you. and as we come up on the air, the gavel is coming down over at the supreme court for the start of the most consequential case of the term, deciding whether immigrants brought to this country illegally as children will be forced out. look at the live shot here. hundreds of protesters, dreamers and others are demanding their voices be heard. across the street at the capitol you've got the final countdown to the first public impeachment hearings. a split-screen moment this morning. my sources are telling me the president's vas lating between blistering anger and relishing the fight ahead and a democratic source tells