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tv   Weekends With Alex Witt  MSNBC  December 15, 2019 9:00am-11:00am PST

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that our show today and joe has to go, and he is leaving. "a.m. joy" will be back next week at the same time. and joe just walked out. >> yes. and you are headed to the fun holiday party and we are right behind you on sunday. and i wish i could come to yours. >> yes, leave and come back. it is a pause and wait. >> and all right. for everybody at 1:00. if i am not here, that is where i am. and a good day for all of you here from msnbc headquarters in new york, and high noon in the east and 9:00 a.m. in the west. and barreling towards the full house vote on impeachment, and
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new clarity of where key figures stand. and history on the horizon with both sides digging in. >> this is a continuing threat to the integrity of the elections now. >> my fear is that you weaponize impeachments for political gains in the future. >> and so we were not given a fair trial in the house. >> and this is a real vote of conscious, and a clear and present danger to the democracy. >> and inside of the white house, a new look at the attitude of the president and what drove the record tweet storm this past week. new polls where the president stood against each other, and who is gaining ground. and plus -- >> i'm so happy that everybody flew here for the holidays, and i'm even more happy that they did it impeaching trunlp. >> and aless sovn "saturday night live" and watch and learn ahead. >> but now, new today, on this day, 83 of the impeachment
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inquiry, lawmakers are streamlining the message of impeachment warn nag ting that president's conduct is going to be far beyond the inquiry. >> threat is going on and it is a clear and present danger from the democracy and something that we not turn away from because the republicans in the house refuse to do their duty. >> this is a crime in progress against the constitution and the american democracy. we cannot take the risk that the next election is corrupted through the foreign interference solicited by the american president which he is clearly trying to do. as congress is getting closer to the historic vote set wednesday, republican lawmakers are firmly defending the president's action. >> for me, my stance for impeachment has been a violation of the law and ni have sad
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through the hundreds of hours of hearings and i did not see bribery or extortion. meanwhile, mixed messages on the republicans of how they would like to see a senate trial play out. these are two distinct takes. >> you can be sure that we will allow the president to defend himself as well, and that means that if the president wants to call witness, and if the president wanting to call hunter biden or the whistle-blower, and the senate should allow the president to do so. >> i would prefer it to end as quickly as possible. use the record that was assembled in the house to pass impeachment articles as your trial record. i don't want to call anybody. i don't need to hear from hunter biden and i don't need to hear from joe biden and we can deal with that outside of impeachment, and i don't want the talk to pompeo or pence. >> and joining me right now congresswoman madeleine dean from pennsylvania and member of the financial service and judicial committees. and you heard it right there.
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this is a divide, two prominent senators cruz and graham demonstrating the differences there. what do you make of this how they are not on the same page at this point? >> well, i think it gives me the opportunity to reflect on the work that we have done over the course of the last several weeks in judiciary and most importantly in the last week having the evidentiary hearings and asking good questions and also presenting where we stand. what is clear and uncontroverted and that is what i would ask the senators the keep thinking about is that the president sought to interfere in past elections and in the upcoming lek shun. for his own good, and for his own personal and political gain, and asking a foreign country and leader to help him out, and to announce the investigation of the opponent. imagine if i did that in my original election or the upcoming election and i went to the foreign country and said, could you help me out and
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announce an investigation into my opponent, would i be worthy of the office i held or tossed out? i hope i would be tossed out. we have a clear and present danger and threat that is ongoing because of the behavior of the president. they put forward no evidence to show that it was not the case. so i hope that in the days leading up to the house vote, my colleagues on both sides of the aisle reflect on the vote and know this it is a vote about truth and upholding the constitution and not just mouthing the words that we call it presh shoushcious and true t ourselves, and it is troubling times, and it is a reflection of the votes. >> you said it so well with the hypothetical one if you were to do something similar, and you are absolutely right right there, and if you were to have the scenario of the short trial versus the long trial, and what do you think that democratic colleagues were to see? >> well, i have to admit that i
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am not going to prejudge what goes on in the senate, because my duty is a member of judiciary in the house. whatever the senate does, i hope they do it with impartiality. that is the obligation. to already hear leaders say that we will work in full coordination with the president and with his lawyers is malpractice. it is a violation of their oath of office, and the oath they will take as jurors so i hope they give it full, fair and impartial consideration. >> and to your point, i wanted to hear what pam bondi said about your point, and mitch mcconnell working hand in hand with the white house. here is that, everyone. >> so we were not given a fair trial in the house at all, and so now to the scenes or the and we deserve to be working and we should be working hand in hand with them, and the rules of evident will apply, and these are the senators to decide if our president is going to be impeached which will not happen. >> what is your reaction when that is going to happen?
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>> i think of the notion of what the framers wanted to protect which is a co-equal branch of government, and congress is a co-equal branch and we are not complicit with the president, and we don't need permission of the president. it is a fundamental misreading of the constitution. if we simply mouth the words that we value the fact that we are to be a check and balance on one another, judiciary, executive and congress, then we are going to actually devalue our constitution. there is nothing more, or less at stake, and that is literally upholding the constitution, and so i find it absolutely puzzling that the senate wants to be in full coordination with the department. it does not make any sense. >> and it is extraordinary, because here on msnbc, and i listen to one of the legal analysts who read the ver bait
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of the oath th bsh v -- verbate and other senators are calling this a fit decompli. >> and well, i had the chance to be home over the weekend and i had a chance to hold my two grandchildren, and i sat here thinking of the generational duty that we have. i am so privileged to have worked on the judiciary committee in this time. it is a sad privilege, but i couldn't tell you how much important sfoirt my grai important it is for my grandchildren and yours, and i cannot imagine that the senators are going into that vote lightly. i hope they don't. where do they want to be remembered in the history books having propped up the most indecent corrupt president of the united states, and torturing their own words and votes for
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such an indecent man who has upheld his office and betrayed the national security and free and fair elections or will they want to be remembered for having voted for truth and for the american democracy. i can't imagine it is any less than that. >> as you were going through the 14 hours of the judiciary committee hearings, what was going through your mindings of the house republicans and their interpretationings of the facts? >> just the behind the scenes reflections i have had. because my team, and my staff in the district and d.c. have helped me to prepare to be as concise and fair as possible under these circumstances, and the whole judiciary colleagues and their staff, and we were united in silently, and we didn't have to express it for the good of the country. i contrast that with what i saw happening on the other side of
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the aisle specifically in our hearings. they were united in defense of one man not worthy of their words, and their actions, and in defense i guess of themselves and the political standings or the re-election. the divide could not have been so grand, and it was so wonderful to be on the side of people just working round the clock literally in the committees and on my staff for the good of the country i to uphold the constitution, and i would be puzzled every single time i heard the mistruths coming out of the mouths of the people across the aisles. >> but that is when the cameras were on, and when they were off, did you ever interact with your colleagues across the isle, and did any of them commit to private political theater? >> i did not have that obviously, and we had very little breaks, but when we would
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break it would be to go back to confirm what we were doing, and being as precise and fair and accurate as we could be. i had some interactions with the particular member of the committee doing media and we had a conversation about family and faith and things like that, and then the person goes right on the media to mouth the words to support a president who does not deserve their support. >> and your colleagues, denny heck, and zoe lofgren said they would like to vote to impeach the president, but he thinks they are afraid to do so. and what about you? you are a democrat in a state that trump won, and can you relate to the fear, and the fear of the president that will call them out, and explain why they may think that way? >> i can't. first of all, both of them are wonderful members and much more
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senior of me to their service, but they may have these conversation, but we are seeing the political fallout and the wrath of the president. i have to say that i don't know whether it is who i am or the district i serve, but i compartmentalize it completely differently. i don't care what the president this of what i am doing. i care about what i think and my conscious, and obviously, the wrath of the president falls on anyone. think of what he did in terms of the young who is "time's" person of the year. and 16 years old, and masterful young woman who cares about the threat to our planet up against a bully who cares nothing for the threat of our planet. so i don't care about the political fallout, and that is not just because i am a seat where my constituents believe and most of them and not all of them believe i am doing the right thing that i have been
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constitutionally called to do the right thing. i hope people can divorce the political and it is going to be a challenge for some in tough seats, but why are you here? if you are here only to save your seat, and your vote reflects self-preservation, i'd say get a new line of work. >> i respect the path that you are on, ma'am, congresswoman madeleine dean, and congratulations on the 2-week-old and 7-week-old grandchildren. that is the best. >> thank you. >> and joining us is natasha bertrand and natalie, and you just heard the conversation, and what is your thought of hearing congresswoman dean? >> well, i would say the judgment of the senators of how the trial is going to go on. >> the fate de compli. >> yes, the difference of mitch
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mcconnell and pat cipollone in the senate, and how this is going play out. and mitch mcconnell has said essentially that he wants to acquit the president and have a fast trial and he wants the american people to move on, and the republicans' defense has been well, you know, the clinton impeachment, they coordinated with the other side of the house, but there is not one ous -- ounce of what is going to proceed. so with regard to the vote, we may see some democratic defections, because they are tough, and moderates and nancy pelosi set them free on that, but it is going to be a unified vote for the republicans. and in the senate, it is a unified republican effort to make it go as quickly as possible, and already coordinating with the white house on that. >> but natasha, you heard nadler and schiff laying out quite pointedly if the president is
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not held accountable, and how the future elections could be corrupt, and how is that message resonating? >> it is not. we are not getting any indication that there is going to be many if any republican defectors in the senate. mitt romney said he is not taking anything off of the table and he may consider voting in favor of removing the president, but with 53 republican senators and 67 votes required to remove the president, this is obviously, kind of, and we know how is it going the go, and we know it is going to be acquitted in the senate, and regardless of the implications that this has for 2020 and the fact that the president is going to feel emboldened after he is acquitted by the senate, and we have seen that he is already emboldened and even with the prospect that he is going to be impeached and meeti ining rudy giuliani and talking about the ukraine dirt,
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and still giving a meeting with volodymyr zelensky, and so he is doubling down. after the acquittal of the senate, there is going to be further emboldening. >> and so, as we are looking across the house, natasha's point, they are undecided of how to vote, and particularly those in the trump districts and one democrat on the record saying he is going to oppose impeachment, and today, we are learning that person congressman drew of new jersey was going to take it a step further and leave the democratic party and register as a republican on that vote wednesday. is this a big deal, elena, or no deal at all? >> it is a huge deal. i have spoken with some of his colleagues, especially one of those moderate democrats in trump districts like congressman van drew, and they say that your constituents voted for you as a democrat, and he is abandoning the party, a one upside that
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people have thrown around which is one less democrat that is defecting if he switches parties, but it is a strong signal and definitely for the republicans they are feeling emboldened by this, and proves the point that the entire process is a sham. democrats are concerned more so about the other defectors rather than someone switching parties and it is a huge deal, and there are people who said they have met with them about doing so this week. >> and the timing, and the report is that he is going to do it after the vote on wednesday, and it is almost as if he wants to make burn even brighter, because were he to change parties before, then he would be another republicans voting against impeachment, but he is making a big statement so afterwards, hey, bipartisan support for not impeaching this president. >> it is definitely, i think that what congressman van drew is doing is a personal decision.
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he is not looking for what the best interests of the democratic party might be, but he is someone who i have spoken to with him a lot on the hill in the last few week, but in june, i had an interview with him, and he was then fully against any sort of idea of impeachment. so he has not changed his opinion at all. it interesting though that he wants to switch parties like you said the timing of it after a potential impeachment vote, and lot of to republicans have been meeting with him behind the scenes and eager to have him come over to his side if this is the path that he chooses. >> and interestingly, you are writing about who among the democrats could vote against the impeachment, and look at the guest list of the white house congressional ball, and what did you find there? >> so, there were six house democrats who attended the congressional or the holiday party at the white house thursday night. there were also justin amash who recently left the republican party to become an independent, and democratic senator tammy
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baldwin who was there, and maybe others, but those were the people we could confirm who were there, and it is interesting that people at the white house, and some democratic and other people who have been working on the impeachment, and they it is a islittle bit odd that your colleagues are spending hours on the judiciary panel discussing articles of impeachment, and meanwhile, some of the congresspeople who came out, and like congresswoman ullaria who has said a she will be voting for impeachment, and so it is odd to be there at the white house the celebrate the president's white house party and as this is pointed out and axios has reported that this happened in the bill clinton impeachment, that some people did attend that voted to impeachment. >> and i say, oh to, be a fly on the wall. i'm here at the party, and cheers to you, sir, but i am
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going to vote to impeach you. thank you, ladies. >> thank you. and new coming up, rudy giuliani's trip to the ukraine and from someone who came back from that trip, and more on what the president's personal attorney found there. and "saturday night live" is a cold open going viral as they describe the politics of the season. >> i am so happy that everyone flew here for the holidays and more happy that they did it, and they are impeaching trip. >> it a disgrace, what crime did he commit? >> the crime of a alpha male who gets things done. >> and what are you seeing? >> you think three bad boys are -- oh, you mean, how trump is definitely getting impeach and then definitely re-elected. >> i'm greta, and i have a christmas message, in ten years,
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i don't know what he found, but if he wants to come to the judiciary committee, and rudy, if you want to come to tell us what you found, i will be glad to talk to you. and we can look at what rudy has and joe biden and hunter biden has got after the impeachment. but if rudy wants to come to the judiciary committee, and testify about what he found, he is welcomed to do so. >> that is lindsey graham
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inviting the president's personal attorney to testify before his committee, and giuliani after an interview with "the wall street journal" says that he told the president more than you can imagine on his controversial trip to ukraine. and now joining us is the u.s. global affairs reporter dan delouis who got back from ukraine, and tell us what is the most remarkable thing that you discovered there? >> well, first the ukraine government is desperate to avoid saying anything about this whole impeachment drama, and they don't want to be seen to be taking sides so they are trying to avoid comment at all costs, and they want to retain the bipartisan support they have always had, and they are trying to navigate a minefield, and you can see it for example, because they have not named an ambassador to the united states to replace the one who has left. months have gone by, and they are weighing exactly what name can they offer that will be
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acceptable to the trump white house without damaging their interests. the other thing that, the other takeaway from ukraine is that the idea that ukraine interfered in the 2016 elections just baffles anti-corruption activists, and the people in ukraine. from their point of view, that is a piece of propaganda that started with the kremlin and russia, and has no credibility, and that i say that the people pushing this idea, and who are meeting with rudy giuliani themselves have no credibility, and most of them have political links to russia or russian oligarchs. >> dan, when you say that the first person that you discovered there and when you say they are anxious about, you know, the not appearing to be part san towards the united states, is that going all of the way up to the top? i mean, how anxious is anxious? >> put yourself in president zelensky's shoes. this is an impossible situation. >> yeah. >> he does not want to be seen
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lying, but he does not want to have to comment on that, and they are going out of the way not to comment on it. of course, they have at, they are at war, and pro russian forces occupying the eastern ukraine and peace talks in france last week, and nothing dramatic came out of it, but zelensky was able to hold his own, but you will hear the people privately in ukraine officials and former officials, and the suds nunited states is taking a leading role in those talksb and deferring to germany and france and many other examples where they feel that the u.s. is going to be supportive, but they won't say it publicly. >> and what about the discussions that you had there, and does anything make you believe that giuliani's claim that he has found more information than we can imagine, and is that accurate? can you tell us about the officials with whom giuliani met on the trip? >> we know who he met with.
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several former officials, and a guy andre dirkach who studied at the fsb, the kgb academy in moscow who was involved in a pro russian political party known for supporting a set of anti-protest laws back during the uprising in 2014. >> you met with him, hang on. you met with him in ukraine this man you are describing? >> giuliani did. >> oh, giuliani did, okay. >> and i have met with one of the people who is supportive of his effort, and we interviewed him, mr. andre telechenko, and he has made allegations, but never produced evidence, and i also met with the anti-corruption activists who say that they interfered in the
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elections is a conspiracy theory, and no evidence to back it up. >> thank you. and new details on the horrific fatal stabbing of a new york city college student. what they are saying about the teen suspect next. he teen suspect next.
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some new details on the stories that we are following for you this hour. the police are searching for the gunmen that opened fire in a busy mall in atlanta. there's a shot right there, and the video showing the chaotic scene on saturday as the holiday shoppers are running for cover, and the argument between three people in the food court escalated into that shooting. one person was ouwounded. a north carolina sheriff's deputy is under investigation for slamming that student to the ground. i mean, look at this -- i mean, this officer walking down the hall thursday with that student and suddenly picking him up and violently throwing him not once or twice, but remarkably that child is said to be in good health, and as for that man right there, he is going to get a talking to, and then some.
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and in new orleans, a state of e american sif a cyber attack and as a precaution, they were shutdown after a emergency was impacted on their system, and this is more than similar attacks have attacked more than 100 governments across the country. and the mystery surrounding the death of barnard student tessa majors is unraveling. and my colleague is following the story. >> yes. >> and what about the investigation? >> this story is so disturbing. yesterday at the park there was a dive team looking into the waters for evidence. right now, only one arrest against a 13-year-old boy, and the most jarring is that the boy made an initial appearance in
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court, and he gave a chilling account of what happened. apparently a group of three teens out in morningside manhattan and they wanted to commit a robbery and while they were out there, according to the detective to cause trouble. they spotted a man, but didn't carry out the crime with that individual, but then saw tessa majors, and the boy said that he witnessed the stabbing, and what was so disturbing is the fact that it appears that there was a struggle. tessa allegedly bit the finger of one of the attackers and she was placed in a choke hold. there were items taken out of her pocket, and it goes on and on. so the 13-year-old is currently being held in custody until tuesday where he will make another court appearance and right now officials are still looking to make more arrests in
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the case. >> look, we were talking in the commercial break, i told you as a parent, it is the most horrifying thing, that you think of the news perspective, but let alone as a parent. but i have to think about the kids as well, the students on the nearby columbia campus. are they frightened? >> yes, barnard college is just a few miles away from columbia, and so there is a lot of fear and rattling the nerves, because a lot of the students walk by the park. this crime happened right around the 7:00 hour, and obviously, it is dark, but this is a community who has improved the reputation over the course of 20 years. >> really has. >> in the '90s there was a list of crimes that happened in and around the park. but they have really cleaned up the act, and then we have this now. so. >> all right. so, kathy park, thank you for staying on the story as horrifying as it is. >> and now, back to washington,
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with the spector of impeachment at the white house, a midweek flurry, and in fact the tweets ending at 123 which is amounting to one every 12 minute, and gee, what else can you do if you are tweeting that much. and joining me is anne guerin, contributor from the washington post, and msnbc contributor, and so, anne, what is going on in the white house walls when they realize that the president has gone on a tweet storm of this magnitude, and what does it also say about the president? >> well, alex, it says a couple of things about the president's mood which is pretty agitated, pretty angry. he is clearly, he is using the twitter finger to express that anger when he is not in front of the camera, and the 123 tweets on thursday coincides with the
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day-long impeachment hearing that was taking place on thursday. and it broke his record from four days prior on sunday which is sort of the gateway into the week that the president was really dreading. even though he does say as he said on the white house lawn the other day, that he thinks that impeachment is going to be ultimately a political benefit for him, he just hates it. he feels like this is a stain on his legacy, and that it impugns his legitimacy which is something that he is focused on. he doesn't like it. the 123 were tweets that were proof of that. of course, he went after a lot of people in that 123 tweets as well. >> i want to get to specifics as well. when he thinks that this is going to help the re-election campaign, and the stain of impeachment, and what is your reaction of that? >> well, he is the third president impeached ever, and it is not a club that he wanted to
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join, and the fact that it is clearly a motivator among his political base despite the fact that republicans are unified behind it, which he is pleased to see, and vociferously so, which is pleasing him more, despite those things, he is not past the fact that he is being impeached and he does not like it. he feels it is unfair. and he's lashing out as a result. yeah. so the specifics on the tweets. here is one, the jab at the 16-year-old swedish climate activist greta thunberg, and he says that she needs to work on her anger management of course after she was named the "time" magazine person of the year, so i will guess that, anne, you asked the white house about this, and what kind of response was a tweet like this? >> well, we did ask, right when this happened on thursday, and initially there was no response. and one of my colleagues
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actually called every person that the president went after in a series of four or five tweets, and we got no responses whatsoever to his attacks from the white house to his attacks on those people, but in the case of greta thunberg, then the first lady's spokeswoman who is also the president's spokeswoman, the press secretary stephanie grisham did issue a statement friday. making a distinction between what the president is doing and what basically pam carlin had done the law school professor who had invoked the name of the president's son during the impeachment hearing a week ago, and stephanie grisham's statement avoids what is in front of us is that the president was essentially cyberbullying a 16-year-old girl
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on twitter. >> all right. ann guerin, good to see you. thank you so much. unfit to be attorney general, and that is the verdict from bill barr from one of his predecessors and eric holder and the scathing op-ed of the man who occupies his former office. we will look at that next. r ofe we will look at that next. i'm your curious cat, and you know what they say about curiosity. it'll ruin your house. so get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like meow.
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to collaborating remotely with your teams. giving you a nice big edge over your competition. that's the power of edge-to-edge intelligence. new admissions from the former fbi director who is a frequent target of president trump, james comey. >> i was wrong.
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i was overconfident in the procedures that the fbi and the justice had built over 20 years. i was responsible for that. and that is what i am telling you, that i was overconfident in the procedures, and the attorney general found significant mistakes, and that is important. i hope that people stare at that, and learn what it is like, and human and flawed, but deeply committed to trying to do the same thing. >> this is coming after the inspector general's report found an inspection into then candidate president trump's campaign, was not politically motivated, but some mistakes as james comey admitted there. >> and now, the director of the protect democracy in the obama administration, ian bassin, and what is your response there of james comey and the biggest take away from the i.g. report? >> well, it is no surprise to those of the civil rights community that law enforcement makes mick takes, and it has
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been pointed ofourth a long time. it is problemt aic, but the difference of what i am doing right now, and what james comey did earlier today, we are operating in the land of reality where we are acknowledging that is one of the findings of the i.g. report, burr but not the dominant one, because the big one is whether or not the president's outrageous claims whether there was a politically motivated finding against the campaign were true, and that is not the case. in fact, the investigation of the trump russia conspiracy was authorized. that it was properly based. >> so comey, yes, he admits to sloppiness of the department when it came to the fisas, but he is defending the agency's actions and the nonintentional nonpolitical approach, and take a listen to the next sound bite from him. >> the fbi was accused of treason, of illegal spying, of tapping mr. trump's wires illegally and opening up a
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investigation without justification, and being a criminal conspiracy to defeat and then unseat the president. all of that is nonsense. he found things that we were never accused of which is real sloppiness, and that is concerning as i have said all along, and it has to be focused on. >> so he is talking about the mistakes, but ian, is this a vindication for comey? >> look, what it is, it is a clear rejection of the claims that the president is making that the department of justice is out to get him, and this is why it is important, because the protect democracy, we have assembled a group of experts who have been studying the autocrats around the country, and they have taught us what the autocrats will try to do which is to politicize independent institutions like law enforcement, and the civil service, and this is the game that president trump has been engaged in since he came into power and that is to delegitimize the entities that could hold him accountable like the department of justice, and it is important that he rejected
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the false allegations against doj and it is important that we don't attribute false equival t equivalents to the errors that the doj found went on and the big picture that the people of the department of justice were not behaving in a politically biased manner. >> so can i ask you as an aside, protect democracy was found in early 2017 which is going to coincide a year or so into the presidency of this president. that is not a coincidence, right? >> right. we recognized when donald trump came into power, we realized that the united states is not immune to the trend around the world, and the freedom house has been studying democracies around the world, and what it is showing is that democracy spread through the latter half of the 20th century, and improved in the countrieies they were n and then you can see the retreat from autocrats of turkey, hungry
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and brazil, and the united states trying to dismantle the democratic organizations and so we formed to protect institutions around the world. >> we will have you back to discuss these matters. thank you very much. >> coming closely to the inner circle that the president is saying that the impeachment will help his campaign, but do voters across the country agree? that is next. ry agree that is next. for what's next. (man) we weave security into their business. (second man) virtualize their operations. (woman) and build ai customer experiences. (second woman) we also keep them ready for the next big opportunity. like 5g. almost all of the fortune 500 partner with us. (woman) when it comes to digital transformation... verizon keeps business ready. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster
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the textured cloths grab and hold dirt and hair no matter where dust bunnies hide. no more heebie jeebies. phew. glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. new reporting from the washington ho"washington post" white house is trying to turn impeachment into a win. the post reports by friday, even as the house judiciary committee passed two articles of impeachment against trump, the president had begun telling allies that maybe impeachment wasn't so bad after all. joining me now, chris lui and lauren zelt. welcome to you both. let's look at this article. it goes on to say that all week at white house holiday parties and in phone calls with allies, trump privately mused about
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trying to prolong the impeachment process because he says it helps his re-election prospects. here is the question, lauren. impeachment is never a good thing. is trump being delusional here? >> well, i think that what he is saying in that statement is that this is ginning up his base. we have seen clips throughout the week of very, very ardent trump supporters who think the democrats have been trying to do this for three years. so i think there's the possibility that it does gin up his base. i think it's a possibility that it could gin up the democrat base as well. i think realistically, once there goes through the senate, as it stands now, it doesn't look to me like he is going to be convicted of anything just based on what senators are out there saying at this moment. i think if democrats are -- feel strongly about removing this president, it's going to have to happen in the fall. it's possible they could run on
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this. just the same way it can fire up the republican base. i think both sides are going to be very amped up in 2020. politics aside, does trump welcome this stain on his legacy? >> well, i mean, i'm sure not. i mean, it is a stain. it's a very difficult time for our country. i mean, we are actively tearing each other apart every day over this and over a lot of other things. this is a stain on his legacy, whether or not he gets re-elected, he will be one of few presidents that faced impeachment proceedings. >> chris, there's a new fox news poll out that shows 50% of voters think the president should be improeached and remov. 41% think he shouldn't be impeached. does this suggest that impeachment could play to trump's advantage in 2020? >> i look at that poll and i look at the fact that among independents the support is risen 7% since october.
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i also look at a cbs news poll that came out today that's showing a rising support for impeachment. i'm not sure this helps trump. i would caution people against reading too much into where all of this could go. it's very conceivable we could go through a very contentious senate trial and a week or month later we are talking about something different. that's the world of trump. on a week where he racked up legislative gains, for the vast majority of people in this country, other than impeachment, their lasting memory of this week is the president attacking a 16-year-old swedish girl on twitter. she became person of the year. there's high information of voters and there's low information. even on the deals he cut, trade is a hard thing to message for many people. >> i'm curious, chris, because the fox poll, it says 53% of voters believe trump abused the power of his office. 48% think he obstructed congress. 45% say he committed bribery.
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from the lawmakers' perspective, will this have any sway? >> it should have sway. i would argue that they should take this seriously. this is a historic moment. this is one of the most solemn responsibilities that any member of congress can have. this will probably be the most consequential votes that many of them will have. the problem is, you've got a senate majority leader, senate judiciary committee chairman who aren't interested in an impartial examination of the facts and law. they would rather do a white dcwhitewash of the process. i think that helps democrats. that fires up their base. look, none of this was on level. this will, i think, get more momentum to get people to the polls. it's a big unknown at this point. >> chris and lauren, thanks for your time. were white power signs flashed at the army/navy game? we will show you the video. that has the military investigating. at has the milita investigating. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer,
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good day from right here msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's day 83 in the impeachment. it has been a busy morning on the sunday talk circuit. let's bring you up to date. >> these facts are uncon electroverdicted. >> this is the beginning of the end for this show trial that we have seen in the house. i think it's going to come to the senate. we will have fair proceedings and it's not going anywhere because the facts aren't there.
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>> it is the responsibility of the american people to hold these senators accountable. >> this is a real vote of conscience. >> the president deserves to be hear. we should work hand in hand with him. these are senators who will decide if our president is impeached, which will not happen. >> this is not political. we should not be looking at those things. this is the defense of our democracy. do we stay a democratic republic or do we turn into a tyranny? >> we begin with the headline, a dire warning. the top democrats on the house intelligence and judiciary committees saying, what's at stake if the president's misconduct goes unchecked? >> this misconduct goes on, the threat to our election integrity coming up goes on. it's a clear and present danger, i think, to our democracy and not something we turn away from because the republicans in the
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house refuse to do their duty. >> this is a crime in progress against the constitution and the american democracy. we cannot take the risk that the next election will be corrupted through foreign interference solicited by the president, which he is clearly trying to do. >> joining me now, melanie zeloni. is that the democrat strategy? is it saying the gravity of this is lost on republicans? >> yeah, absolutely. what you hear from democrats right now is that this is not a political process for them. this is a stand. they are standing for the constitution. even though they know this is likely acquitted in the senate, they say they have to check this president. if he goes unchecked, he is going to continue his behavior and try to interfere in the election in 2020. some of that also is a way to neutralize some of the arguments we heard from the gop, which is that the democrats are ramming this process through the house trying to get it quickly done before the 2020 elections and
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iowa caucuses. they are trying to say the reason we're going so fast is because there's another election around the corner. they don't want this president and his powers to go unchecked. >> i'm curious. nadler said he didn't know if any republicans would break away from the party, break away from this president on wednesday at the vote. what are you hearing on this? >> gop leaders that i talked to are confident there's going to be zero defections. at least in the house. i just sat down with the leader -- minority leader kevin mccarthy. he said they were taking steps early on to ensure there was no defections. they have been checking in with members on the fence initially. they made this about ro saproce a way to make it seem that no matter what came out of the investigation, republicans would view this as tainted. they made it about shirts or skins. a defection would be viewed in the party as a betrayal of trump. something else to keep in mind is that a lot of the moderates were wiped out in the last election. you have a more conservative gop
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conference that's been loyal to trump. that's why we are not expecting a single defection. >> that's a good point. one democrat is going to be voting against impeachment. he is in a trump district. he is very likely to leave his party and register as a republican after that vote wednesday. here is what chairman nadler had to say about this. >> what he is reacting to is public polling that shows he can't get renominated in his electorate in his district since 24% to renominate him and 60% to nominate somebody else. more to the point, this is not political. we should not be looking at those things. >> what are you hearing on this? is this significant, this defection? >> look, it's not going to change the democrats' math. he was expected to vote no. that's not going to change. it does hand republicans a huge talking point now that they can say, this is divisive and unpopular that democrats are fleeing the party.
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it's important to point out that this is more of a political calculation for him than it is a principled stand against impeachment. we have reporting that he had just gotten polls from his district that democratic voters didn't want to see him re-elected. only 24% thought he should be re-elected. he is viewing this as a chance to save his own political future. i think he will score major points with trump for doing this. his support would go a long way in a potential gop primary. >> by your estimation, it's an isolated thing? it could bear influence on other democrats who are -- >> well, we're not expecting other democrats to look at this and say, now i'm going to switch parties. certainly, it could put pressure on some of the swing district democrats to rethink whether they will vote for this. at the end of the day, democratic leaders are expecting around a half dozen defections. it will be more than the two who voted against the initial impeachment resolution.
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they feel confident they have the vote for articles of impeachments. not expecting republican defections. all eyes will turn to those 30 swing district democrats. >> okay. thank you for that. we are getting reaction from the white house following criticism that it is working hand in hand with republicans on what looks like an inevitable outcome to the senate trial. hans nichols has that for us. a good sunday to you. what is the white house saying on this? >> reporter: they have modified their argument slightly. before, it was this idea they were only talking coordination with mitch mcconnell, one of the jurors in the trial, and the white house, were just -- it was about the calendar. it was about the timing. we heard this morning from pam bondy, a more robust defense the president and mitch mcconnell can talk about anything and that fairness demands it. >> we weren't given a fail trial in the house at all. now it goes to the senate. these senators, the president
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deserves to be heard. we should be working hand in hand with them. we wouldn't be doing our job if we weren't working hand in hand with the senate to clear the president. >> reporter: it seems like as we are on the eve of this hoe mmom week. tuesday, the rules of the debate. what amendments will be allowed. wednesday, we have the actual vote. it seems like the closing arguments, if that's the right term, may be soon to do closing arguments, but it seems like we are having a fight about process. you have chairman nadler saying this is totally corrupt to have one of the jurors behave in this way as well as a foreman and coordinate with the defendant. you have these dueling narratives. you have an outcome that doesn't seem in doubt. the president will be impeached. then in 2020, in january, he is likely to be acquitted by the
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senate. >> thank you for that. as the senate gears up for the trial, there are warning signs of potential division. there's republicans that are sending mixed messages on specifically how they want that trial to play out. >> you can be sure we're going to allow the president to defend himself as well. that means, i believe if the president wants to call witnesses, if the president wants to call hunter biden or the whistle blower, the senate should allow the president to do so. >> i would prefer it to end as quickly as possible. use the record that was assembled in the house to pass impeachment articles as your trial record. i don't want to call anybody. i don't need to hear from hunter biden. i don't need to hear from joe biden. we can deal with that outside of impeachment. i don't want to talk to pompeo. i don't want to talk to pence. >> joining me to discuss this,
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betsy woodruff swan. how pervasive is this split among the senate republicans, whether to draw out the proceedings, call witnesses or keep it short as demonstrated by the sound bites from cruz and graham? >> many senator republicans are keeping their heads down because this is a topic that puts them particularly the moderate republicans in a tight spot. one thing from that clip you played from senator graham that's important and worth noting is the fact that he mentioned hunter and joe biden in the same sentence as he mentioned secretary of state mike pompeo and i believe vice-president pence. for many of the republicans, the question is, does the senate trial become sort of a huge, all encompassing, very busy, lengthy process including a bunch of witnesses from both sides, or does it stay very narrowly tailored and efficient, focused on the bare minute number number of witnesses?
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it's a challenging spot. both sides would like to bring in potentially more witnesses. democrats would love to try to force pompeo and mulvaney to testify, even though they would use legal tools to stop that. republicans would love to bring in joe and hunter biden. it's either/or. either this trial is huge or takes a long time or it's narrow and tight. right now, mcconnell has indicated he prefers the latter, focused. >> what if the president pushes for calling witnesses? is there a sense that there will be a pushback? will the republicans coalesce behind this quicker strategy or not? >> i would be surprised to see a public clash between the president and mitch mcconnell. president trump very much trusts mcconnell and sees him as someone he can rely on as a strong ally in the senate. while we may hear some noise on twitter from the president and some of his allies about wanting
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to bring in the bidens, ultimately, i think if mcconnell decides that he thinks that's a bad idea and he communicates that to the president, i think it's likely the president defers to him on that. with a huge caveat that predicting trump can be tough. we're dealing with a situation, at least in this decade, that hasn't happened before or even starting the next new decade, that hasn't happened before. based on what we know right now, including some of the comments that mcconnell made this past week on fox news, i think it's unlikely that we see a genuine public split between trump and mcconnell. >> what about the comment we heard a moment ago from pam bondy, talking about the white house's position, defending their position to work with senate republicans on this impeachment trial? what's your reaction to what she said? >> i mean, there are all sorts of concerns that we're going to hear from historians and ethics experts about the level of coordination between senator republicans and the white house. remember, part of the reason you
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are not going to see the white house pretending to honor this of the traditions when it comes to impeachment is the defense they have made of the president from day one is that the entire impeachment process in their words is not legitimate. it's not a real thing that's going on. therefore, they don't have to abide by some of the traditions and rules that are supposed to govern impeachment. of course, the process very much is real. congress has authorized it. the house is moving forward to an official vote in a couple days. for republicans, they will be arguing that sort of violating the norms of this process on their end is okay because they are alleging that democrats have already violated those norms. that's the case that you will hear from people like pam bondy and from trump's lie allies in senate. >> what about raising a question with the headline that we heard here, is a trap being set for trump in the senate trial?
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over the past week, i have heard from three seasoned republicans who fear that president trump and the west wing are underestimating the potential danger of a senate trial. it's important for the white house to understand that the weight of history is settling upon the shoulders of the senators. some of them quite weak. and because of that pressure, private conversations taking place and a trap may be sprung for the president in that trial. we have to note, this is written by somebody who worked as a speech writer for reagan and three years in communications with george w. bush. does the white house risk being overly confident here? you think there could be surprises? >> any time you move into a process like the one that's coming forward, there are always risks. to the extent the senate controls it and the extent moderate republicans sometimes have a fraught relationship with the white house, of course, to that extent it's a black box and it's hard to predict. however, ever since the impeachment process began, there
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has been sort of very feefvered speculation that some of the moderate republicans might part ways with the white house. we have yet to see that happen. one of the wild cards for the president and one thing they have to be concerned about is whether moderate republicans break not necessarily on whether or not to remove the president but on whether or not to give democrats the 51 votes that they will need to officially call in witnesses who the white house won't want them to call in order for democratic leader chuck schumer and his allies, for instance, to demand someone like mulvaney or pompeo come in, 51 senators have to vote. to get a vote like that, they need moderate republicans. if the moderate republicans like murkowski or collins, they feel frustrated and angry at the white house, it's possible that on some of the smaller but consequential votes, they might break rank. that's something to keep an eye out for. >> we will do at your suggestion. thank you so much.
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michael bloomberg has been very busy building relationships by funding projects in major cities. some people are questioning the endorsements of these mayors. we will ask one of them about that. a video stirring up controversy during the army/navy football game. did service personnel get caught using the white houser hand sign? we will talk about it next. tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.
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new today, military officials announcing they are launching an investigation into
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west point cadets and a naval academy midshipman who appeared to flash white supremacist hand signals on national television during yesterday's football game. here is video of those moments. you can take a close look as you see some hands behind the reporter there. joining me now, a reporter for "the wall street journal." ben, a welcome to you. what exactly are they looking at? there's some suggesting this is an intentional hand signal viewed by many as a hate symbol. >> west point and annapolis officials are trying to find out what the midshipman and cadets were thinking when they were putting up this symbol. the symbol has a number of meanings. it can say, okay, you are holding up an okay sign. there's an old game that people play where you flash that sign some somebody looks at it you give them a punch. or the white power symbol is what it is commonly associated
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with since 2017 to 2019. the thing the army and navy are having to do whether they look into this, one of the reasons this symbol has been co-opted by folks to use as white power symbol or by the alt right because it's so tied up in these other culturally acceptable norms. there's a real vagueness as to what it can mean at any time. you can say i was doing something else instead of putting up that symbol. >> potential ramifications of this are what? by the way, this isn't the first time a member of the military made a hand signal like that on tv. how has it been handled in the past? >> in the past, last year, a coast guard officer put up a symbol like what the cadets and midshipman were using, put it on national television and was reprimanded by the coast guard. even if the cadets and midshipman were doing something not related to flashing an extremist symbol, the military
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has known this has been a problem in the past and doesn't have a policy in place for dealing with it. the pentagon hasn't responded officially to requests for comment on this. west point and anap snapolis are only ones that said anything. they said, we are putting together a proper investigation. >> correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like it will be hard to prove that was the intent given other interpretations. right? >> that's right. that's one of the reasons why the symbol gained power on the right and in the meme and online community is because of the ability -- the ability to say it means something else. you are able to say, i didn't mean what i was doing with my hands. it was something different. they will have to probe to see what these cadets have said in the past, if there's online presence.
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there's no way to say at this point -- the military is being very straightforward with this and saying, we don't know what the intent was. we know this symbol has been affiliated with these extremist ideologies in the past. >> ben, thank you so much. let's move on to the 2020 race. we have michael bloomberg who is in fifth place. despite the fact he joined the race late and will be skipping several primaries in early voting states. he racked up endorsements from several prominent mayors around the country. one of those is in california, michael tubbs. >> i think we have a candidate here with the record, the resources and relationships, not just to beat donald trump, but to ensure we live in a multiracial democracy. >> joining me now is mayor
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tubbs. thanks for joining me. first question, what made you decide to throw your support behind michael bloomberg? >> absolutely. i think even the conversation earlier today on the show that donald trump represents a threat to democracy. a top priority for people throughout this country is to ensure donald trump is a one term president. i think mayor bloomberg has the record, relationships and resources that will make it so not only donald trump loses but that the infrastructure and things are in place so it never happens again. >> look at you personally. you graduated last year from a mayoral training program at harvard. michael bloomberg funds that. i'm curious, did you have interaction with him during your education? if it weren't for that connection, would you endorse him? >> absolutely, i think i have interacted with mayor bloomberg on a variety of programs, whether harvard, but other initiatives that are common,
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shared prioritpriorities. we have had conversations around stop and frisk. we have conversations around gun safety. i think part of the harvard thing illustrates why he would be a great president. he understands it's not enough for one person to have the answers. it's about building a team and cultivating relationships in a way you have good leaders in every city and every state. >> how about constituents there? how did they respond to bloomberg when he was there earlier? does his message resonate with them? >> i think when he came, he talk about declaring war on poverty, issues of affordable housing, vouchers pay for housing. people were surprised and shocked. they didn't expect him to come to stockton and to come to speak to our ishz asues and real issu
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with poverty with concrete plans that are at least as progressive as anybody else in the race. i think a lot of my constituents appreciate him coming. he was the only to come to stockton this cycle. they enjoyed hearing from him. but also the fact that he was responsive to needs on the ground. >> what about that past policy that he had, stop and frisk? can you understand why there are those here in new york city, because that was underway while he was mayor, and elsewhere that are uncomfortable with that policy? i know he apologized for it. has it been effective for people to determine it being genuine? >> i think in 2019, we recognize stop and frisk was a terrible policy. as a young black man, i would have been stopped and frisked. i get it. a sign of a great leader who realizes whether th s when theyd apologizes. i think after this apology, put forth proposals that reflect the
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understanding of the criminal justice system. it should really ensure we're all safe. stop and frisk, it was terrible. it was a bad thing. looking forward, we have a president in the white house is stop and frisking and putting kids in cages and having white supremacist marching down our streets. >> can i ask you to look at this big picture with regard to kamala harris from the golden state, a bit north of where you are in stockton? why didn't she appeal more to voters in your area? why do you think her campaign didn't stick? >> i will leave that to the pundits. i was happy that senator harris ran for president. i think as a black woman, particularly in 2020, her message of justice being on the ballot was one that spoke to me and i think the race is less for her not being in it. with that being said, i know the top priorities ensuring donald
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trump is devoted. mayor bloomberg has the record, relationships to ensure that doesn't happen. >> i want to remind viewers after you were elected, we spoke about the pilot universal basic income program for your city. that is part of the andrew yang presidential platform. is the reason why you aren't reaching out to support him -- >> again, i think that in terms of what we are doing in stockton, we are fighting poverty. if you look at mayor bloomberg, he talked about declaring war on poverty and establishing form of income floor through the earned income tax credit. i think mr. yang's proposal is a great discussion to have. in terms of the presidential campaign. in terms of the top priority, defeating donald trump, mayor bloomberg is the candidate. >> mayor, how is that program working out? >> it's working out well, i think. what's fascinating is that we find folks are spending money
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the way me and you would spend money on food, utilities, bills. people are smart. you can trust people to make the right decisions. i think to the point around some of the anger people are feeling in this country, part of it is that people are working but work isn't paying. we have one in two americans, one $500 emergency away from poverty. you have housing affordability issues. folks are saying, how do we make sure everyone in the country as wealthy as ours has a floor to build upon? >> stockton, california, mayor, michael tubbs, thanks. with the next debate a few days away, candidates are spending time in iowa. today, warren makes a sweep of the state. she may not make it to the debate stage. we will explain that next. ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪
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asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. now to the candidates 2020, holding campaign events today in six states across this country. the next democratic debate scheduled for thursday may not go on as planned. all seven candidates who qualified say they will not participate if a union labor dispute is not resolved, including senator bernie sanders who just said this at his campaign rally.
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>> i think there's not going to be a debate so long as there remains a labor dispute. i hope and expect that the dnc will resolve that. >> joining us from washington, iowa, where warren has finished a rally, we have our colleague who has the story on this. shaq, good sunday to you. let's talk about what's going on. did warren make comments about this? you saw bernie sanders being quite clear about where he stands. >> reporter: right. elizabeth warren did not make comments. he was asked about it at a press conference he had this morning. he made comments on that. with sanders and warren here in iowa, there's been a lot of pro-worker messaging. warren wrapped up a town hall. this is something she regularly does, which is a selfie line. anyone who came to the event will have an opportunity to take a picture with her and share a
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moment with her. for elizabeth warren, she was one of the first that came out and said that she would not attend that debate if she would have to cross a picket line. with the striking cooks, dish washers and chefs at the lmu campus, she would not cross a picket line. that position has been adopted by the majority of the 2020 candidates and the majority of the field right now. as that's happening, you have bernie sanders this morning, he was with his pro-worker message talking about minor league baseball. that's a debate right now between the major league and minor league. they are trying to find an agreement. sanders bringing in stakeholders from both sides and trying to talk about wages that minor league players are receiving and trying to increase though wages. both candidates here in iowa, we are 50 days away from the caucus, trying to show their message is on workers, have that pro-union stance. that's whatter s eyou are seein >> are there any indications
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about where this -- it's -- how this will play out, when they may get this resolved? thursday is three days away. they are on strike, those workers. >> reporter: that's right. the strike is relatively new. they announced they were going to have the strike on friday. what you are having is candidates kind of leaving it to the dnc. you heard senator sanders say when he was asked about it. their position is, we are not going to cross the picket line. we know union workers and unions are a key voting block for the democratic party. candidates are making it very clear that they want to support unions. there was a union tall -- culinary unionto town hall that was last week. they will follow what the union says. they will not cross the picket line. they are leaving the negotiations and details to the dnc right now. it seems like they expect to see
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a debate. the logistics, that's what needs to be figured out. >> thanks, shaq. fear of the president keeps republicans in line. that's what we hear from a congresswoman during this hour yesterday. coming up, a look at whether the gop faithful on capitol hill could break ranks. could break ranks.
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they have had, the clock and calendar determining impeachment. >> they don't like us. they don't like the president. they don't like the president's supporters. they dislike us so much they are willing to weaponize the government. >> house republicans defending the president with anger and frustration during the impeachment hearings. joining me, kurt barde l llla a former republican. here is the latest on his latest article, the headline there. democrats brought a gavel to an impeachment gunfight. trump's 2020 rivals must do better. kurt, with a welcome to you. it sounds like you are angry with the house democrats. who did the judiciary committee not do right? >> i will tell you, i really feel like that democrats have not been willing to fight fire with fire with the republicans. republicans have been very disciplined, right or wrong, true or untrue, they have been disciplined in what they say
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almost every single time a member was speaking or questioning a witness or giving some sort of monologue, they were saying the same thing. there's all of this material from the time that republicans were in the majority when i was there, when they were investigating obama, that democrats have ammunition to throw back in their face. why when they say this isn't fair, why aren't democrats saying, these are the rules you played by? when they talk about closed door depositions and how they were locked out of a process, why aren't democrats saying that republicans wrote the rules for closed door depositions and used them when they investigated hillary clinton? when republicans say they don't have the witnesses they want, why aren't democrats saying, if you want giuliani, pompeo, bolton, mulvaney, those witnesses, why isn't donald trump blocking them? there's so much ammunition to highlight the hypocrisy of republicans. i don't understand why. >> are you saying that a uniform
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response ranks over a focus on truth, on fact? does that rank over -- a lot of republicans, they were on not answering directly in response to truth and fact. does that rank over truth and fact in this day and age? >> i think in this case, what we are seeing -- the support for impeachment has stayed the same from before the hearings to where we are right now, which tells you that anybody who tuned in and watched this, their minds were made up and there's been no change in public opinion, which i think that says the republican strategy for better or worse -- i think it's for the worse -- has been working on some level. the reason why is because democrats have not confronted it head on and batted it down when given the opportunity. i think you can have a fact-based, truth-based argument, but you can take ten seconds and highlight the hop of
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course khypocrisy at play. >> you know the gop players. what's happening behind the scenes with them? >> it's the same story throughout the trump presidency. it's republicans privately shake their head at what the president is doing. they disagree. they will opine about it. they say they can't wait until this period of the republican party's chapter is over. publically, they are afraid to do anything. they are afraid to confront this toxicity that's plagued their party. i'm afraid like we have heard the senate republicans say, that the outcome has been predetermined, even before the trial has begun. fear is driving those decisions. >> that fear is driving the decision over what to do that may be right. right? two of my guests this weekend, they told me they have spoken to republicans who would like to vote to impeach this president but they're not going to do it and it's because they are afraid the president. >> 100%. if people were honest, if you
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had a secret ballot, president trump would be impeached. republicans privately have been bemoaning this presidency, the tone, lack of ethics and morality and conviction. publically, they are afraid of the base that they are feeding to every day that they are unwilling to do what's right. that tells how broken and how fundamentally systemic the republican party is broken. even after trump leaves, whenever that might be, these underlying issues aren't going to be fixed. this has been building for a long time. it goes back to the tea party form at the beginning of the decade to where we are now. for so long, we have seen the establishment republican party have been held hostage by the base. it's gone from being held hostage to being taken over by them. >> do you think republicans believe that voters respond more favorably to leaders seen as fighters, regardless of the facts? >> yeah. i think the tone that we have
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seen from republicans -- this is what we have had, the yelling and shouting, the anger, because i think that they believe that their base, their voters, they equate yelling and shouting and volume to righteousness and somehow this indignation, this false indignation they put on, this display from doug collins and gates and it's reforms, but somehow that that type of tenor will show democrats are wrong. >> thank you so much. will impeachment help donald trump get re-elected in 2020? he thinks so. do voters agree? stick around.
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as congress prepares to take aef an historic vote on impeachment, our colleagues asked voters their take on the investigation that has consumed washington. >> is there anything you look at that shouldn't have happened? >> i would like clarification on the phone call. was it referencing back to 2016
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and asking for information from ukraine, or was it referencing theyou this. i heard about a problem back then. can you look into that? is that unreasonable? >> the problem with trump is has he earned the benefit of the doubt? he squandered it so often. it's unlikely that he is innocent. >> joining me now, political consultant michael singleton and elaina beverly. this is going to be interesting. from that sound you just heard, i'll let you go first, how do you think impeachment is playing outside of washington, d.c.? >> i mean, if you look at
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aggregate data, the polling indicates that, you know, the american people are pretty much where they were in this process when it began and it's a 50/50 split with a slight 1% to 2% margin more people supporting impeachment versus those who don't support impeachment and trump us trump's removal. that indicates an operative that you have to pay attention to some voters who are movable voters. voters who are unpredictable in their voting patterns. i would also pay attention to trying to figure out who are those voters that you can turn out in 2020 who may not have been as involved in the most recent previous presidential elections. so i think from an operative side of things, those are the voters i would look at, try to target, because again i don't think you are going to see any further movement in this. i think once this process is over in the senate, i think people will remain where they currently are today, which is pretty much split. >> but these topics that we
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heard there of the fact that first voter was saying was this 2016 or 2020? what was this all about? the fact that they were suggesting do we -- not certain whether we owe ukraine money, whether ukraine has a loan. the final point when it comes to giving someone the benefit of the doubt, donald trump, he doesn't deserve that based on his past history. what do you make of those comments? >> the last gentleman sort of indicates to me that people are pretty much cemented in their views about donald trump as an individual. with the two other individuals, the lady and the gentleman sort of indicate, alex, that people have further questions beyond joe biden, beyond hunter biden, questions of was trump perhaps somewhat right in what he did even though it was somewhat problematic. those are voters that would concern me if i was a democrat. what that suggests to me is that those people may be somewhat open to an argument from trump
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and some of trump's supporters. that's not a good sign for democrats, specifically in swing states. >> all of this on the heels of hours of televised testimony, hours of discussion in news broadcasts like this one. who do you think comes out of this impeachment battle looking stronger? is it democrats? is it republicans? and relative, especially in terms of the upcoming election. >> well, look, it remains to be seen who comes out on top. we know that the fix is in when it comes to the senate trial for impeachment. we have seen lindsey graham and we have seen mitch mcconnell saying that they are functionally just going to limit the testimony, limit the evidence in order to get through this process in favor of donald trump. but i do think that as impeachment goes on there is some benefit for joe biden as he goes out there and is lifting up his character in comparison to
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donald trump's character. we saw this weekend, we saw jill biden speaking about her husband and how joe biden is the formidable candidate for donald trump to go up against. so i think that as we see impeachment roll out, we are going to see more of pitting of donald trump against joe biden. >> you know, speaking of joe biden, i want to go to a poll out of wisconsin this week which shows five potential democratic contenders matching up against the president. joe biden is the only candidate leading trump in this poll by one point. others are trailing the president by one or two points there. wisconsin is a crucial swing state. what does to tell you? >> i want us to have caution when it comes to the polls. to quote a poll, the quinnipiac poll would say that 2 in 5 voters have made up their minds at this point. so voters are still kicking the tires when it comes to the contenders. and we need to look no further than the 2016 elections when the polls had hillary clinton handily winning michigan and
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pennsylvania and wisconsin and they turned out to be wrong. so it's still early. the polls are still a little bit soft. we know that there is some communities that do not poll as earnestly as others. so it's difficult, it's more difficult to reach, for example, minority voters and voters of color. lastly, there is nothing that -- yard signs and polls do not win elections. ground game wins elections. there is nothing to be said -- nothing can be said more than the importance of having a solid ground game. >> you are right on that one. thank you so much. we are going to unpack this story in "the new york times" and it reads like a james bond novel. the details in the next hour. you too, have a great day. bye,bye.
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♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. save hundreds of thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance.
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we are out of time on weekends with alex witt. thanks for watching. phillip is ready to continue things right now. take it away. >> you are free to go, hit up joy reid's holiday party. >> oh, now i'm going to go. >> all right. hello. i'm phillip men tha. we are following developments on several fronts this afternoon. lawmakers are preparing for a historic week in washington. the full house voting whether or not to impeach the president for only the third time in u.s. history. and that vote is bringing added pressure to democrats in swing districts with one lawmaker already announcing he is leaving the party. will more follow suit? andst