tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC December 19, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PST
what could happen next as democrats and republicans negotiate the terms of the senate trial and what's in store for president trump. any moment now, the house is set to vote on a major trade deal. we're going to break down what it means for american workers and the products we buy like cars, meat and milk. we're going to speak to a republican lawmaker, roger marshall, from kansas. >> your phone is tracking where you go and who you meet. a shocking report hououtlines h the data is being sold and used against you. this is a must watch. right now, an impeachment standoff is under way in washington. house speaker nancy pelosi withholding the articles of impeachment until mitch mcconnell lays out a plan for a trial in the senate. this is part of a historic 24 hours in our nation's capital as president donald trump is now the third sitting u.s. president to be impeached. this morning, the president tweeting in part, quote, i got impeached last night without one republican vote being cast with the do nothing dems on their
continuation of the greatest witch hunt in american history. today we heard from congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle who have different plans for how the next steps in the impeachment fight will go. >> this particular house of representatives has let its partisan rage at this particular president create a toxic new precedent that will echo well intoes the future. >> founders in their wisdom gave the house the power to accuse, the senate the power to judge. we are now asked to fulfill our constitutional role as a court of impeachment. >> it seems like people have a spring in their step because the president was held accountable for his reckless behavior. >> now we have the speaker of the house who is so embarrassed, she admits the failure of this impeachment she will not even send it to the senate. >> let's look at what actually
does happen next. the impeachment fight should eventually head to the senate where a trial begins. members of the house will be chosen as managers to present t the case. they will serve as the prosecution. the president's legal team will serve as the defense and the supreme court chief justice john roberts would preside over the trial as the judge. it's unclear when we'll see the trial take place because house democrats have yet to send the articles of impeachment to the senate. house speaker pelosi suggesting she may hang on to them as leverage for negotiations on the rules for the upcoming trial. now all we know right now is this, congress departs for the holiday recess tomorrow, but the senate has already blocked off the entire month of january for proceedings and soon we're going to find out which lawmakers will serve as the impeachment managers who present the two articles to the upper chamber. house speaker pelosi said she wants the senate to reach a bipartisan deal on the trial terms to determine which democrats to appoint to that
role. keep in mind, the senate is currently controlled by republicans. there are 53 republicans, 45 democrats and two independents. mitch mcconnell has made it clear he's on the president's side and wants a quick acquittal vote and he wants to call no white house witnesses like the acting chief of staff mick mulvaney or former national security adviser john bolton. the reality to remove the president it would take a two-thirds super majority vote, in this case 67 senators. that has never happened in u.s. history and unlikely to happen now. joining me now, nbc national political correspondent steve kornacki the host of "article 2 inside impeachment" and former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york's civil division and nbc analyst maya wiley. thank you for being with pus. steve, let's start with you. senate minority leader the democrat chuck schumer has said he's just met with house speaker nancy pelosi to discuss the path
forward. but, in fact, in prior impeachments it hasn't been the two democrats who lead both sides of the house, it's been the democrat and republican in the senate coming to some meeting of the minds on how this will go. kind of interesting to our viewers that we probably know what the outcome of this thing is. it would be good if they could just agree on terms as to how it's going to proceed. >> it's interesting to put this in context it was exactly 21 years ago today the house of representatives voted to impeach bill clinton within hours of the vote on the floor of the house, the chairman of the judiciary committee and the republican appointed impeachment managers when over to the secretary of the senate, all the network cameras were there rolling live and transmitted, that's the term, the articles of impeachment. the secretary in the senate said thank you we will have our trial soon and they were dismissed. it was an orderly process. this new wild card until the last 24 hours, nobody anticipated that this question of whether democrats in the
house will delay that process or even if they will do it at all. if they delay, they seem -- there seems to be a sense it gives them at least among some democrats some leverage to force mcmcconnell's hand. when you look at the politics might be tough to see where the leverage is for democrats. >> i don't know if somebody was listening to us when we had our conversation but it appears we have news, i'm going to ask my executive producer to give it to me, i'm not seeing it on my phone, mitch mcconnell is confirming that he is meeting with chuck schumer this afternoon. maybe this is according to reporting from frank thorp our man in washington. maya, the chief justice of the supreme court will preside over this. arguably, he has some interest in not making it seem like a sham trial. despite the fact that mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham and others have said they don't require reading the evidence, they don't need to read transcripts or call witnesses, they know where they stand, they know how they're going to vote
and completely on the president's side, can the chief justice do anything to cause them to behave like jurors in a trial? >> well, this is an important question. let me correct one thing. i was an assistant u.s. attorney. you gave me a big promotion. >> in our minds you were. >> thank you. the presiding officer here in this case, the chief justice of the supreme court, technically has powers to make decisions on evidence and witnesses. the senate rules allow 51 senators to overrule whatever decision the chief justice makes. in other words, the senate retains the power to make the decisions on evidence and on witnesses if 51 senators hang together. so i think part of the question here, and i think this does go back be to steve's question about the politics of this, is about are there four senators out there that democrats can say look, seven out of ten americans
want this to be fair, so that's not seven out of ten americans want him impeached and removed, but even if they are opposed to impeachment and removal, they think it should be a constitutional process and it becomes then a political calculus to say, do you want to be on the side of fairness or do you want to be on the side of a rigged trial. >> this is an important point you make because steve, in the house process, as you know and you've been studying, they have not moved dramatically but there was a sense of let's go through this process so that anybody who is undecided about this, who watches it, has a chance to look at it. wouldn't the senate want to do the same thing? the conclusion seems to be largely foregone it is not likely that they will vote to remove the president of the united states. so there's some safety in mitch mcconnell saying why not have something that feels like a real trial? >> there's a question there, too, do you have a trial ta lasts weeks, into february, that involves calling all of these
witnesses that take center stage in american politics, this is the political question for republicans, do you grant it that sort of prominent platform or do you say, if your rhetoric is out there, from relationships, the rhetoric, this is a sham, never done like this before, we don't take this that seriously, do you treat it in kind and say hey i move to dismiss this. that's what they could do. the democrats tried that at the start of bill clinton's trial in '99, dismiss it, let's not consider it. they didn't have the votes. went to a full trial. took a month to get that done, five weeks. a question for republicans f this does come to a senate trial of some sort is there an early notion dismiss and what maya is saying is right, do all the republicans stay in line or susan collins for maine who has to run for re-election in a state trump might not carry does she feel politically safe doing that, if she joins with democrats on a key vote, expose her to a primary challenge. those are the political calculations. >> tweets from president trump
which these days is not unimportant if you're running for office. maya, doug collins who has been running things for the republicans in the house said on the house floor, sort of threatened democrats and said, you are setting the stage for what's going to happen when one day house democrats are in the minority. let's play what he said. >> it has been said today where is bravery. i'll tell you where bravery is found and courage in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered and this majority say be damd with anything we're going to impeach and do whatever we want because we won an election. i guarantee you one day you will be back be in the minority and it ain't going to be that fun. >> i got to give it to collins he has stuck to his message for the last few days, he has repeated a few themes and the underlying theme is this is an unfair, not entirely legitimate process. >> yes. he repeats that despite the facts.
i think that's what -- it's great theater and so much of this is about playing to a public audience that may not have all the same facts. for example, a lot of the process the democrats followed were created by the republicans. nancy pelosi was clear she didn't want to go to impeachment and got heat from the left of the party because she was holding back on impeachment. and then at every turn, you have republicans essentially saying, we won't even stand up for our
bipartisan right to have oversight over the executive branch in appropriate circumstances. that makes them seem a little disingenuous because how will they feel if there's a democrat who is a president saying i'll give you not a thing when you're in the majority of the house. i think that's part of the constitutional crisis we're in. one other thing i would say is, if trent lott during the clinton impeachment and tom daschle did sit down and work it out together. what americans fundamentally want is work it out. >> yeah. i remember it was very clear there were a lot of democrats who thought this was vindictive and partisan the way it was but they still had what looked like a more functional process than it looks like we're going into here. thanks to both of you. steve and maya. check out steve's podcast article 2, inside impeachment, wherever you get pod casts. it is worth listening to. steve breaks this down very,
very clearly. we are following breaking news. a manhunt underway in rode ooild. police are tracking a suspect at large after a shooting leaving three people injured. this reportedly happened at a senior living facility in westerly, road ooild in the southwest corner of the state. we will bring you updates as we have them. coming up next breaking down the trade deal between the united states, canada and mexico and how it could affect americans wages to the price of a new car and we're going to speak live with republican congressman roger marshal of kansas a member of the house committee on agriculture and has things to say about what the trade deal is going to do for american farmers. stephanie ruhle has an interview with 2020 candidate michael bloomberg. how one of america's richest men says he'll address income inequality. you're watching "velshi and ruhle" live on msnbc. ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪
welcome back. the house is expected to vote on a new landmark trade deal i like to call the usma. this is the deal that is going to replace the easier to say nafta. usma. it stands for the u.s./mexico canada agreement. it's a wide ranging trade deal likely going to be in effect for at least 16 years. under the new deal, here are some key parts of it. there are lots of it.
75% of the components of a car or truck be must be made in mexico, canada or the united states to qualify for zero tariffs. 30% of the labor on a car or truck must be done by workers earning at least $16 an hour. and that 30% increases to 40% by 2023. the deal strengthens labor protections by requiring parties to adopt labor rights as recognized by the international labor organization. this is relevant particularly in mexico. mexico has got to make it easier for workers to unionize and hit certain implementation benchmarks or face penalties. interagency committee will form to monitor mexico's labor reform standards. the deal protects u.s. farmers preserving the agriculture relationship between canada and mexico and the united states. canada and mexico are the
largest export markets for the united states. canada has a highly complex dairy system but the usma allows the u.s. to sell more to canada as well as poultry and eggs and in return the united states will allow more dairy, peanuts and peanut products and a limited amount of sugar in the united states. nafta eliminated tariffs on most agriculture products. usma keeps them at 0. dispute settlement a big part of the deals. it's going to keep the settlement terms known as chapter 19 from nafta. chapter 19 stipulates an international panel will settle trade disputes between the three countries not u.s. courts. meanwhile, chapts 11 gave investors a special process to resolve disputes with governments in nafta is eliminated for canada and mostly eliminated for mexico. there are additional rules on intellectual property, data and the environment but the most
important piece of the usma is that it exists at all. because by doing this it eliminates uncertainty relationships with two of the u.s. most important trade partners. i want to talk about the agricultural side with republican congressman roger marshal of kansas, a member of the house committee on agriculture. congressman, good to see you again and thank you for being with us. >> good afternoon. it's great day in washington, d.c. finally the day is here the biggest economic legislation we're going to pass in recent decades for kansas farmers. thanks for having me. >> let's talk about farmers are having a tough go right now, particularly because of the trade war that's been going on with china. tell me what the benefit is to u.s. farmers and u.s. agriculture of this deal? >> well, mostly this deal gives us certainty in agriculture. we have mountains of grain
sitting all over kansas, mountains of corn and wheat and we will have place to go with those. it's going to create thousands of jobs. go back to the certainty and don't forget this is going to put more leverage on china because this is the most comprehensive, the highest standard any trade agreement ever negotiated. president trump and u.s. tr bob lighthizer have done an incredible job. >> you went down to mexico at the beginning of the negotiations. i'm sort of puzzled that a negotiation was done mostly by republicans has the goal of providing further labor protections for mexican workers and, in fact, opportunities to unionize something republicans don't tend to love doing in the united states. talk to me about this. >> well, i was a little bit surprised too, but from day one two years ago, ustr bob lighthizer wanted to make this legislation bipartisan and he did. representative -- ambassador lighthizer understand this from decades of work up here on the hill and he created a bipartisan
solution. things we needed, things that were needed. this is called a win/win situation and everybody wins. >> steven mnuchin, the treasury secretary told cnbc the usma is going to add half a percent to gdp growth. that's a lot. do you think the deal is that good? >> i do. you're the economist and i'm a simple physician. the gdp gross when economies become more efficient. i think this deal makes our economies more efficient. i think that intellectual property chapters, the digital trade chapters are going to make our economies more efficient today. >> let me ask you about the other things that you and i have talked about that challenge u.s. farmers. one of them is immigration and uncertainty around immigration because u.s. farms employ a lot of immigrants, some of them documented, some undocumented and the ongoing trade war with china which has set back in particular our soybean farmers.
obviously if those two matters could be sort out, your constituents who work in agriculture would be a lot better off. >> absolutely. that's why i'm so glad this impeachment chapter is over in the house so we can get to work on problems like that. one of the biggest problems in kansas is a lack of people for the jobs we have, and there's solutions that allow us to secure the brd and fix a broken immigration system. getting usma done is going to help us with the china negotiations as well. i'm sure you realize this, but if we get usma and china buttoned up we will have done trade agreements with over 50% of our trade partners as far as dollars and cents goes. >> are you worried about the degree to take china and soybeans where they were such a big buyer of u.s. soybeans now a lot of that business has gone to brazil and the chinese are helping the brazilians build out infrastructure so they can continue to provide more and more soybeans to china.
the danger a lot of farmers talked to me about is that even if you end up with a deal with china, even if it's a good deal, we may never get all of that market back. >> certainly. i am concerned about that. again, secretary purdue, secretary lighthizer, we've been talking about those challenges now for months and i think we've been working on solutions already. we have hundreds of millions of dollars allocated to marketing types of programs and the one good thing about soybeans, maybe the one commodity the world can't grow enough of right now that's not even brazil can take up all the needs china has for soybeans the one product we still have a few aces left in, so you're right we have to take on these problem and the best salesmen in the world will be the farmers that grow these products. >> i always appreciate talking to you, particularly about policy. but we have to talk about politics given the day it is. last night on the house floors your colleague doug collins threatened when democrats are back in the minority in the house there are going to be
consequences. i understands the job he has to do. you're not one of those guys who thinks this should be the way congress works, right, back and forth politically motivated stuff. how do you repair what you see the damage of the last three years, how do you repair that? >> yeah. i think i woke up today and it was a new day. i went to the house gym and played basketball with democrats. next i went to a bipartisan prayer breakfast where i think there was 30 or 40 of us that gather every thursday morning to pray for our leaders. i'm going to do a one person at a time. we have solid relationships down here at the member level and the only way we have long-term solutions like this agreement, the usma, is a bipartisan agreement with and that means it's going to be around a long time. i think most of us realize for long-term solutions that we need bipartisanship working together. it's a new day up here. the sun came up.
president trump is still the president. he's given us a great christmas present here with the usma agreement. we'll figure it out. >> good to see you as always. roger marshal is a republican from kansas and he's on the house committee on agriculture and science space and technology. thank you, sir. the senate just passed part one of two of the government funding packages. it passed 71-23. the senate expected to pass the second part today. both measures were passed by the house. they go straight to president trump's desk for his signature. the white house has indicated the president will sign it keeping the government open. two years ago president trump signed a sweeping tax cut plan. >> law. it's been great for business. today's tax cut tracker how some companies paid no federal taxes at all. my colleague stephanie ruhle her interview with michael bloomberg is next. >> we cannot let society go where people can't afford to eat
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democratic race for 2020. according to the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll 28% of democratic primary voters support biden for the nomination. nor bernie sanders comes in second place at 21%. senator elizabeth warren gets 18% support. that is a 7 point drop from her peak in september. seven candidates will take the debate stage tonight at loyola-marymount university in los angeles, the last democratic debate of the year. presidential candidate michael bloomberg is rolling out his health care plan and wants to create a medicare like public option which would be administered by the government but paid for by comer e premiums and build on the affordable care act. my partner stephanie ruhle spoke with bloomberg in his hometown of medford, massachusetts, and talked about his plans as president and who he thinks will vote for him.
>> do you think today kids in this town are able to pursue the kind of success you were able to. >> i think we should make sure that every kid has that opportunity. >> do they have it today? >> some do some don't. those who don't get them better schools, better health care. whatever the things they need so they can participate. it is still the land of opportunity. it just isn't as widespread as you would like it to be. >> a portion of this country says the system is so broken they want to start over and it's a system that's enabled you to climb to the top. they look at you and say this guy represents a system that's keeping me down. how do you win those people over? >> i think you have to be careful. if it's just the last few years that's true, those things come and go. if you look long term, we've cured -- we've cut worldwide
poverty in half in this world in the last two decades. when people say things aren't better it's not -- they're not better for everybody, but it is true we've made some progress and we need to create more jobs and give you opportunities, different kinds of jobs that pay a living wage. you can't on $7.15, the national level, you can't feed your family on that and put anything under the christmas tree. >> what does a mike bloomberg voter look like. >> people say welcome. >> doesn't mean they're voting for you. >> if they take time to yell out their window good luck the likelihood is they will. >> you think mike bloomberg's base are the people that live in medford, massachusetts. >> i got elected and re-elected in new york, i got votes from republicans and democrats and every ethnicity, every to see.
my father made 6 grand the best years of his life. i didn't come from money. i had a great family. parents were there for my sister and i. the neighborhood was clean and nice. the schools were okay. i want that for everybody. >> your father never made more than than $600. >> would he vote for me. >> how would he feel about voting for a new york billionaire? would your father vote for that guy. >> maybe say the new york billionaire knows how to get it done. >> stephanie, as you know work for bloomberg's media company for five years and known each other for a number of years. watch her interview tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern on msnbc. tonight watch msnbc for live analysis of the democratic debate with brian williams. coverage immediately following the debate. coming up cell phone apps track every move you make. i'm not kidding.
this is serious. right now sensitive data of yours could be up for sale. we've got shocking details of how public your private life may be. in today's tax cut tracker how some fortune 500 corporations paid no federal taxes this year thanks to president trump's tax cut law. you are watching "velshi and ruhle" on msnbc. should you clean your fridge? stay tuned to find out. male anchor: beats the odds at the box office to become a rare non-franchise hit. you can give help and hope to those in need.
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a big boon for big business thanks to president trump's tax cut law. a report shows that hundreds of american corporations are paying about half the official tax rate under the law. the institute on technology is a left leaning think tank examined the tax laws. "the washington post" reported on the study. let's take a look. before the new law u.s. corporations were subject to a 35% corporate tax rate, but between the years 2008 to 2015 the institute corporations found they paid 21%. everybody carrying on how we have the highest tax rate in the world for businesses, this is really what businesses were paying. jump to 2018, the first year that companies were subject to the new tax law. the corporate rate officially went from 35% to 21%.
however, this report found that nearly 400 companies paid a federal tax rate of nearly half of that, about 11%. 11.3%. the lowest average effective tax rates the institute has found. 91 fortune 500, 91 of the biggest companies in america, effectively paid no federal taxes in 2018, despite combined profits of $101 billion. this as the federal deficit reached nearly a trillion dollars in 2019, growing by 26%. 26%. over the previous year. joining us now is matthew gardner, a senior fellow at the institute on taxation one of the authors behind this report. i have to say, here's the thing, there's no part of the findings that are surprising to people who were studying this tax cut
law as it was going into place. we knew that they weren't closing loopholes which meant that the tax rate was not going to come out to 21%, it was going to come out to lower than that and knew that the stimulus effect that the president thought this was going to have was overstated. >> that's absolutely right. those who paid attention to the structure of the tax cut in 2017, it was pretty clear instead of reforming the corporate tax system as a lot of people were calling for, they were simply cutting corporate taxes and that meant we were going to continue to see a lot of companies getting away with paying nothing. this is the first hard evidence we've had after two years that it's working out this way. it sends a clear message that all the things that were wrong with our corporate tax system before 2017, remain very much so now. >> let's talk about how 91 major corporations were able to avoid
paying a single dollar in federal income tax on their profits because there may be a valid reason in some cases. what are the ways in which they do that? >> the first thing is that they are legal reasons. every reason to think that what companies are doing here is getting their taxes down to zero by using the legal tax breaks that congress has made available to them both in 2017 and in prior years. these include tax breaks that were designed to encourage capital investment, expenses of equipment, search and development tax break, tax break for executive stock options, tax breaks for creating conventional and alternative fuel. there's a tax break for it. almost without exception when congress had a chance to reduce or pair back or even repeal these tax breaks in 2017, they chose instead to make them bigger. the reason they did it, i think it's important to focus on this point, it wasn't because
congress had nothing better to do than to enact this new tax law, they did it because explicit promises were made by corporate leaders, by ceos and business lobbyists if congress did enact these big corporate tax cuts, we would see an explosion of economic growth, more capital investment, more job creation, all the things we want to see. that's why congress did it. >> again, i mean i live for this stuff, right. this is what i think about. the ways in which we can get explosive economic growth. it wasn't obvious this would do it. it was obvious it had some positive effect and it does seem to have some positive effect. everybody, stephanie and i interviewed, said we're going to eliminate loopholes, the most egregious of them. some that will stay because it's economically sound to encourage businesses to act a certain way. they enlarged certain loopholes.
>> and there are sensible reasons to think that as we thought two years ago, that cutting corporate taxes in a big way was actually not going to stimulate any meaningful sea level change in capital investment or job growth because many if not all had substantial cash on hand. if the market was telling them to hire new workers, to create new productive capacity. >> they would do so. >> it was within their wherewithal to do so. >> here's where the rubber hits the road for most of my viewers, not ceos or share holders in companies. the federal deficit has continued to grow and grow and now the government is talking about things like pulling back on snap and food stamps and things like that. but we were able to afford to give a big tax break to corporations. there seems to be a priority issue in the meendinds of some americans here. >> that's right. i think congress has been able
to live understand the illusion these tax cuts don't cost anything, but at a time when you, as you alluded to, the budget deficit approaching $1 trillion, the revenue loss from this matters. we know from our report that last year because these fortune 500 companies paid 11.3% instead of the 21% they were supposed to pay, that blew a $74 billion hole in our budget deficit for the year. that's not the whole thing, but it's a pretty substantial chunk. you know, while congress could go another year making it a 21st consecutive year without balancing the budget, probably will, in the long run the $74 billion that these big profitable companies did not pay last year is $74 billion that rest of us must pay in another way. it could be the spending cuts you're talking about, probably tax hikes on individual families. one way or another it's going to come out of our poktz pockets.
>> thank you for joining me and the report. senior fellow at the institute on taxation and policy. >> how some companies can track every move you make. public and private. thanks to your cell phone. whokd have access to your data and what they can do with it. and what you can do about it. you're watching "velshi and ruhle" live on msnbc. bc us. bc it's what this country is made of. but right now, our bond is fraying. how do we get back to "us"?
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welcome back to "velshi and ruhle." someone might be tracking every move you make. "the new york times" reports every day dozens of companies are logging the movement of tens of millions of people with smartphones and storing the information in large data files. okay. maybe you knew that part. the "times" obtained one of the files and pored over it for months. the file from a data company that holds more than 50 billion location pings from the phones of more than 12 million americans. the times found the companies, quote, can see the places you go every moment of the day, whom you meet or spend the night
with, where you pray, whether you visit a methadone clinic, psychiatrist office or massage parlor. if you can see the full list you might never use your phone again. joining us sifted through all this information. charlie, you call cell phones the spy in your pocket. >> that's right. >> there's no part of your reporting that we didn't know was capable, but the issue is that the information is gathered and then it can be sold. >> that's right. and this information, this reporting builds off of other reporting here, and what we've really come across, what we obtained was the largest leak of this type of information ever. you can really see the scale of this. and i think a lot of people understand that they're being tracked to some degree, but -- >> sure. some of us thinks it makes our ads better or will tell me there's a restaurant i might enjoy nearby. >> it very well may. what we believe to be the most
astounding thing of this, and what's really actually we think reprehensible is there are companies that are taking this data for one purpose, and then repackaging it and have a secondary business reselling it. they can sell that to anyone and once it's gone, there's no telling who it can go to. >> the anyone is where the problem lies here. it's not just they're selling to it a retailer who wants to sell you more stuff. >> that's right. >> it could fall into bad hands. >> there's a chance for that. we see data breaches happen with not location information but pass words, social security numbers all the time. some of the companies, the middlemen, they are 1345small. we don't know their security or practice for employees to look at this. when you look at the possibility of something -- this data falling into a bad actor's hands, it's high, i think. >> what's the bad actor scenarios? >> we're going to roll out a
series of stories that talk about this. there's a huge national security implications. we identified multiple pings at the pentagon, the white house, mar-a-lago, places like that. we identified people at protest events. so people trying to demonstrate freely but feel like they're lost in the crowd and not tied to that all the time. you know, you have synagogues, mosques, churches, these types of areas. you can identify in that data who goes where, how often, when some of the places are packed and when they might be most vulnerable. you can look at schools. there's really no regulation in this industry that prevents you from tracking someone over the age of 13 who has consented and then you're looking at kids moving around in schools. >> and some of this information, what we've learned over the last couple years can be bought for very little money. >> the problem with this industry and in reporting on this industry is that it is
completely opaque. people who work in the industry say the online advertising is so complex, this information goes one place and then there's a black box. you have no idea where it's going, how it's being used. there's no real accountability there, and the privacy policies where we click i agree and consent are whoafully inadequate. >> which we all do dozens of times a day probably. >> and i want to stress with all this reporting, this is not to put any blame on my americans who use the devices. you shouldn't feel ashamed if you're someone who does this. this is an industry that is taking advantage of people. >> right. >> and using this to turn a profit, and, you know, is it worth it just for targeted ads? that's something we have to ask yourse ourselves. >> and this can be fixed with proper regulation. we as a collective society can decide privacy is a right, and needs to be treated as much and they can buy my participation in their tracking by telling me about it and offering me some
money. >> absolutely. you can look at a service that offers you turn by turn directions and say that's worth it. i want to give that to them. as long as there aren't any other rules for them to repackage is data and sell it elsewhere. i think there are rules we can put into place. this is an industry, we built this industry, and we can control that. >> i spent much of the morning after having gone through part of the article, i'm not going -- we're not going to discuss how to do it, but it's in the article. i'm going to tweet it out. doing the things that you recommend that people do. can i make my own secure enough that someone is not going to track me, and if i do that, is my phone going to be functional enough for me to use? >> it's on a case by case basis. the first thing you have to do is accept the right now there aren't a lot of rules and regulatio regulations. things might slip through the cracks. that's understandable and we're making tradeoffs. but millions upon millions of
americans have not seen until today what we were able to show at that scale, and so they really didn't have the full information to give their people. >> the decision to go through your phone and privacy settings and location settings and turn things off didn't feel as motivated. when your location services are on, your phone just feels like a more fun experience. it knows where you are. it tells you all sorts oh things. you want your weather, but when you read the article, you realize it's a tradeoff. you might be prepared to mike that tradeoff. >> exactly. it's up to the person, but when we went and traveled around the country, we talked to people, prominent people, regular people, and told them about this, showed them their own information in the set that we identified, and then we asked them to see if their phones for a second to look. and people who thought they hadn't consented to give multiple apps the information had. going and just checking is a really important part of this and just knowing what's out there. >> charlie, good to see you. thank you for being with us, and you can go to the article in the new york times and it does give
you step by step instructions about how you can tighten your privacy settings on your phone. coming up, we'll dig into the impeachment with the democratic senator from a red state, jon tester of montana joins us. you're watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. live on msnbc. what'd we decide on the flyers again? uh, "fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance." i think we're gonna swap over to "over seventy-five years of savings and service." what, we're just gonna swap over? yep. pump the breaks on this, swap it over to that. pump the breaks, and, uh, swap over? that's right. instead of all this that i've already-? yeah. what are we gonna do with these? keep it at your desk, and save it for next time. geico. over 75 years of savings and service.
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3:00 p.m. eastern. here are all the places you can watch or listen to velshi and ruhle. there's no reason not to tune into us all the time. let's turn it over to katy tur. >> other than your mental health. ali, thank you. i'm katy tur. it's 11:00 a.m. out west and 2 p.m. in washington where for the third time in your nation's history congress is preparing to put an impeached president on trial. it is day 87 since the inquiry began, and here is what's happening. it appears as though house speaker nancy pelosi may strategically withhold the articles of impeachment from the senate for now. first she wants assurances that chamber will hold a fair trial. >> i've not prepared to put the managers and