tv Kasie DC MSNBC December 29, 2019 4:00pm-6:00pm PST
leading politics about the races to watch in the 2020 elections. but first, what a long, strange trip 2019 has been. this summer the president spoke on the phone with the leader of ukraine and asked him for a small favor. and just under five months later, he became the third president in the history of this country to be impeached by the house of representatives. believe it or not, this year we also saw the release of the mueller report, remember that? a document once seen as the greatest threat to the trump presidency. and while the president battled those investigations, both of which he dismissed as hoaxes and witch hunts, democratic white house hopefuls battled it out on the campaign trail for the right to take him on this fall. candidates came and candidates went as the mood of the electorate came into a clear view. what came of it all? a nation starkly divided, the most consequential in decades.
senior white house reporter for nbc news digital, shannon pettypiece. for hillary clinton's campaign, elrod and rick tyler. let me begin with you, if i can, shannon. when you look back at the year that was for president trump, what stands out the most for you in 2019? he's pretty much been able to dodge all of the charges that have come his way politically speaking except for now he has become the third president in this country to be impeached. >> well, you know, and the year pretty much where we started it as far as his support and approval ratings. when you go through the tweets, you mentioned the mueller report, the indictments of trump's close associates, and obviously something as huge as impeachment, an impeachment inquiry and all the things
surrounding the ukraine call. we've seen his approval go up and down but within the margins, within a percentage or so. and it's one of the higher points of his administration. we continue to see this pattern of his base sticking by him, him having a floor of around 38% or so of support out there regardless of what he does so far, and, of course, on the other side, the opposition to him remains just as equally strong. the divided country that we had this time three years ago in 2016 still appears to be there, and it's hard to see much shift in that other than maybe around the margins highere and there. >> given what she just said, what is the big picture you're taking away from this year? >> well, you would have to say that the impeachment is historic. it's only happened twice before
in american history. we'll see what happens in the senate trial. but it's just donald trump's continued ability to sort of get away with everything he has. by the way, the people surrounding him don't. we have many people who have been indicted, many people who have served time and are serving time. we've seen a lot of administration officials come and go, we have a lot of acting officials, cabinet members. so this white house is not running on all cylinders, as ty say, and i think donald trump became more and more emboldened, and that's what got him in trouble. i think the president could have avoided an impeachment if he had said, the call wasn't perfect and i wouldn't have done it that way again. i think it was impeachable, don't misunderstand, but i think it would have been a harder case to make if he had just admitted that he did some wrong, but he seems congenitally programmed to not ever be able to admit a
mistake. >> yeah, you're asking a lot fort president to admit any kind of mistake. adrian, let me read you this excerpt from jonathan lemire who wroits for "the associated press." the first line of president donald trump's obituary has been written. while trump is all but certain to avoid removal from office, a portion of his legacy took shape. with he became just the third president in american history to be impeached by the u.s. house. the two karlz of impeachment approved along largely partisan lines stand as a constitutional rebuke that will stay with trump even as he tries to trivialize their meaning and use them to power his reelection bid. he's likely to be acquitted in the senate? >> i don't know if it certainly undermines the moment, but it certainly disappoints a lot of people, and it disappoints a lot of independent voters, many of
whom support impeaching and removing him from office. we have to remember just a month ago, a fox news poll came out saying that over half the american people support impeaching and remoovving the president from office. that certainly includes republicans, that certainly includes independents. people definitely agree that these jurors like lindsey graham and some of these far right republicans who have already made up their minds. tha they're supposed to be independent but they've already determined what they'll do about impeachment. i think when you get to the minds of voters and ask them, why are you supporting a democrat, or why are you supporting a republican, or why is your mind made up? you will find that a lot of people are turned off by electorate representatives that have already determined what
they believe will be the outcome of donald trump, and they're very disappointed by that. >> obviously the president has taken on a lot of political rivals, including hillary clinton. he's beaten her, he's taken on the mueller report, he's dismissed that. washington was really embodied by both parties, and that was by house speaker nancy pelosi. there was this iconic image from a white house meeting in october that became an iconic image of sorts. pelosi using it as an example of her willingness to stand up to him literally and figuratively. fast-forward a few months and pelosi's handling of the impeachment battle has led democrats singing herdetractors. tim ryan, who challenged pelosi back in 2016, told "politico" that she is the best democratic leader he has ever seen. if asked if he would do what she
did if he were the democratic leader, he said, probably not. she's literally in a class by herself. give me your take, adrienne, on nancy pelosi and how she's done this year. >> you couldn't ask for a better speaker of the house, and it's like everything she's done in her career led up to this moment. she has such a strong grip on the caucus. even though they may slam the press every day, deep down they highly respect her. there is no one who could best lead the country, best lead her caucus, best lead congress in this pivotal moment. and i certainly remember just a couple years ago when people like tim ryan thought about challenging her, some members. heath sschiller, i think it was back in 2007 when she ran for speaker, challenged her for speakership. these guys go into this with maybe 15 to 20 votes. not a well oiled machine. if you're going to take on the queen, you need a real apparatus
to do it. she's proven time and time again she's the best leader for this moment. >> he she outmaneuvered donald trump. she also may be outmaneuvering mitch mcconnell as this impeachment trial unfolds. why are they struggling to deal with her, so to speak, shannon? >> well, we'll have to see how everything unfolds as impeachment progresses. but i think it is interesting to see how having a strong a adversary has made her even better and stronger herself. it's a characteristic you see in donald trump, where a lot of his supporters and allies will say the stronger the adversary, the better he is. you've almost seen the flip reverse h reverse happen on that. i've been told president trump still has enormous respect for her, and the issue over sending the articles of impeachment to the senate and holding them up
created an enormous amount of chaos and anger and frustration in the white house and sent people scrambling trying to figure out what to do and sent trump off on a twitter storm against her. one person i talked to said he was already at about an 11 on the furious scale with impeachment, and that just sent it up a notch. so if her goal was to get under his skin and cause a little bit of chaos in the white house and upset the president even more, she was successful at that. i don't know if that's the goal. i don't know that's what's behind that, but i can certainly tell you from where i'm sitting, that's one of the by-products of all this. we have seen that a number of times where she's able to get under the president's skin and she was able to if not get an upper hand, throw a counterpunch where you don't have very many people in the party, including those running for president, who are able to do that as effectively. >> guys, we have a lot more to get to tonight. when we return, democrats and republicans argue about the pace
of the impeachment process in the senate. part of a much larger argument about fairness. beyond the beltway. how impeachment will affect races in wisconsin. we are back after this. wisconsn we are back after this cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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has hasty sham impeachment and now they may speed up a trial without gifving it a fair hearing. "politico" writes that nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell are working to exploit this unmapped wilderness to their advantage. 20% fewer democrats believe it will be fair. shannon, let me get your opinion about the senate. does, in fact, nancy pelosi have a role to play in this? the longer she drags this out, are she herself and her party at risk that the public opinion may sway against the process? >> well, it is a very fine line that democrats have had to walk through this whole process. and timing has been crucial. there was a perception that the mueller investigation, the
russia investigation dragged on too long. voters got fatigued with it. there was time for the president and his allies to sort of muddy the water around it. so the belief has been for democrats that speed has been on their side. but no action was going to be taken in the senate before -- i believe it's early january when the senate reconvenes. so now there is this two-week window or so, or even longer than that, where i think a lot can happen in early january. members are going to be back in their districts. they are going to be hearing and getting feedback from their constituents, so that could influence things a bit. but ultimately, it will get to the senate. there is every indication that mcconnell wants to see this as a speedy and not drawn out process, which i think will benefit democrats as well. then you'll have the president having his real moment to respond to this on the senate floor when he will have his
lawyers there, at least we believe the white house counsel pat cipollone will be one of those making publicly on the senate floor the president's case. that's not really something we saw at all in the house trial, though you did have republican members who advocated for him. so i think for republicans and i think for the president, it will be their key opportunity to try and adjust public opinion on this one way or another to whatever extent folks can be swayed at this point. >> hey, rick, let me get your thoughts on the republican party on this. you have former senator jeff flake writing this. my colleagues, the danger of an untruthful president is compounded when an equal branch follows that president off the cliff, into the abyss of unreality and untruth. call it the founders' blind spot: they simply could not have envisioned the article brarchl a betting and enable such
dangerous behavior in the article ii branch. should they come out for the president and say they want a fair process, they want to see witnesses, they want to see something that mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham and senator blunt are all pretty much saying is not going to happen? >> what i see among the republicans are poll-tested courage, that is, if their states are telling them that they need to have a drawn-out trial, then they'll get on board. i don't know who is going to have that position. but remember, damon, before christmas the original argument against the democrats were process arguments, and one of them was that they rushed this and the president had no witnesses when the fact is virtually every witness they had in the impeachment inquiry were all trump appointees, employees of trump appointees or government officials, people who work in the administration. in fact, they were all trump witnesses and trump didn't like what they said. so what's the answer now? the answer then was let's have a
speedy trial with no witnesses, and that should tell every american, which is why they want to hear from witnesses, if, in fact, trump did nothing wrong, then let's hear from the people who can exonerate him. one would have to only conclude that trump doesn't have anybody who would actually exonerate him and which is why we're not hearing from them. >> meanwhile president trump obviously now has more than one reason not to be focused on the supreme court. you got the justices agreeing to hear the president's appeal of lower court orders that require his banks and accountants to turn over financial records to congress and prosecutors in new york, and, of course, there is now increased focus on chief justice john roberts who would, by any measure, oversee his impeachment trial in the senate. and, of course, you may recall that the president and the chief justice have not always seen eye to eye. in fact, after the president criticized someone he called an obama judge last year, roberts
wrote a response. we do not have obama judges or trump judges bush judges or clinton judges. what we have is an extraordinary group of dedicated judges doing their level best to do equal right to those appearing before them. adrienne, the politics of this is obviously not lost on anyone. what could it possibly mean if you have chief justice john roberts overseeing the senate trial in the impeachment of president donald trump? >> well, a couple things. first of all, chief roberts has been someone that frankly many democrats have been surprised by over the years who was a bush appointee who has been pretty fair and impartial on major decisions that come before the supreme court. he's made it very clear where he stands on this. he's not going to look at partisanship, he's going to look at the facts. he's going to preside more cont impeachments that has taken over this country. so there's that.
ultimately, i look at the big picture. how does this affect politics? how does this affect 2020? i'm not sure the details of justice roberts overseeing at trial, the witnesses coming to testify or not coming to testify. there are factors in play, but how does that actually ultimately affect the outcome of how many senators, how many republicans vote to impeach trump in the senate, and then how does that actually come into play in 2020? i'm not sure all these various machinations affect donald trump, but i do think trump will become more and more unhinged if he sees somebody in such a powerful position that he can't touch, like justice roberts coming forward and overseeing this. i think that's where you start to see, how does trump handle this? what kind of -- how unleashed and unhinged does he become on twitter and with reporters?
i think that could have more of an impact on the ultimate outcome of 2020 as opposed to all these factors that come into play of the process. >> you can almost see the faces of his senior advisers if he has to go to twitter to go against chief justice john roberts. when we return, the impact of impeachment is being felt far and wide. after the break, dave wasserman in a "politico" report joins me on how the proceedings are affecting house races across the country. we are back after this. country. we are back after this i am all about living joyfully. ♪ hello. the united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. rewarded! going new places and tasting new flavors. rewarded! traveling lighter. rewarded. haha, boom! getting settled. rewarded.
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i guess what i say is i believe this is just a better fit for me. this is who i am, this is who i always was, but there was more tolerance of moderate democrats, of blue dog democrats, of conservative democrats, and i think that's going away. >> that was congressman jeff van drew, one of the three democrats to vote against articles of impeachment. and the very next day he announced that he was switching parties. meanwhile a recent nbc news "wall street journal" poll says voters are split on how impeachment will impact their vote in congressional races. 30% say they're more likely to vote for members supporting impeachment, 33% say they're less likely to vote for a member supporting impeachment, 34% say it makes no difference. joining me now to break it down for us, house editor for the
cook "politico" report, dave wasserman. ga dave, good to talk to you, as always. give me your view on how impeachment is affecting the broader landscape. is this concerning in the mind of nancy pelosi as they go into 2020? there are 31 districts that trump carried in 2016. there are only three republicans in districts that hillary clinton carried in 2016, so those democrats in those trump districts do face risks from needing to cobble together a coalition of their own base voters whom they would lose if they opposed impeachment, which we saw with jeff van drew, and they also need to hold onto a few trump voters in order to carry these districts and preserve nancy pelosi's gavel as speaker. so this is a very difficult tightrope for those democrats to walk, and right now the best thing going for them is that
with voters short attention spans, this could be forgotten by march. >> i know you've been traveling around some of the key battleground states. i think arizona and wisconsin, just a few to come off the top of my head, including maine on the senate side. but talking to voters about impeachment, what are your key takeaways from those conversations on the ground? >> look, democrats are going to argue that they absolutely needed to pursue impeachment because otherwise it would be an abdication of constitutional responsibility, and that's a perfectly reasonable argument. but when i speak with democrats from a lot of these battleground states, particularly from smaller towns and more rural areas, they acknowledge that this is not playing well with the voters who are still persuadable in those places. the polling that we've seen nationally suggest that trump has picked up a couple points in terms of his a propproval ratin. we saw a poll out of wisconsin, a very highly rated poll. marquette showed impeachment was
40% in favor, 52% opposed. this is not going well for democrats in the court of public opinion. what is going well is voters dislike president trump. that's still true. >> let's run through some specific house races that i know you've been paying close attention to, including congressman jeff van drew from new jersey here announcing that he's recently switching parties. what are some of the key races that stick out for you? >> so in new jersey's second district, jeff van drew is going to be running as a republican with trump's blessing. sometimes party switches take, sometimes they don't. in the case of justin amash in michigan who became an independent in july, i think he is kind of his own island right now, and doesn't have much of a path to reelection considering he's a pro-life, pro-impeachment incumbent and i'm not sure there is a market for that. in van drew's case, he's going to have cover from president trump, which is important in the republican primary. he still retains a base of goodwill among voters who have never seen him as particularly
partisan but who is a long-time office holder in south jersey, so he still does have a good chance of being reelected. >> adrienne, let me get your opinion for districts that have gone democrat that president trump won back in 2016. what is the strong case that they need to make in order to hold onto those seats when it comes to the topic of impeachment? >> congresswoman slotkin said she could handle this when she made her decision in michigan. to support impeachment, she made it clear to her supporters and voters that she was thinking long and hard about this decision, it was not an easy choice. then she held a town hall coming out and saying, let me tell you why i'm supporting impeachment, explain it to you, i want to answer your questions, i want to have direct conversations with you and then continued over the
course of time to have those direct conversations. if the voters know, especially the swing voters who may have supported her in 2016, maybe they were on the fence. if swing voters know you're having a candid conversation with them and you're explaining your rationale, that's very important. i also think you have to keep in mand, mind, aman, a lot of these districts here, democrats voted these members of congress in. they flipped the district. some of them were independents, some were swing republicans, but overwhelmingly impeachment is supported by democrats. you have to give your base something. you have to keep in mind that the people who brought you, the people who allowed you to win in 2018, in some cases 2016, they are the ones overwhelmingly supporting impeachment. if you keep those numbers in mind, you play to your base, you make it clear along the way to your swing voters, those independent voters, why you are supporting impeachment, the
people who may or may not be swayed by it, having that direct dialogue, all those factors come into play when hoping to get yourself reelected. >> let's talk about republicans who are retiring. house leader mccarthy has weighed in on it recently. watch what he had to say about it. >> for those who are afraid about republican retirements, i would not be. if you take the average of the retirements based upon where, if you look at the president's votes and others, it's an r23. if you're asking about the party and you're asking about retirements, republicans are going to replace. >> he talks about the strength of the party's recruitment in that sound bite and in the rest of that sound bite, i should say. when you're watching this, are you at all concerned, for example, about the diversity of the republican party? there are no african-americans. even will herd, there won't be any once he retires unless they
win new seats. are you at all concerned about the future of the gop trying to recruit members, or do you think kevin mccarthy is right? >> well, i was concerned about the republican party's recruitment of women and minorities, but i'm less concerned about the trump party, because i don't believe, aman, there is a republican party left. but if you want to talk about the republicans as they exist today, if you don't recruit minorities and you don't recruit women, it's just math. it's just a matter of time before those minorities become majorities, or at least you'll have minority/majority populations in many states and many districts. and the republican party has just done a really poor job. we talk about it all the time. we talked about it for years, of figuring out how to make the republican party an attractive party for those people, for hispanics and particularly african-americans.
i had always believed that that was possible. i think we have had such a setback that it may be a generation before we have hope or republicans have a hope of winning back them if we can ever reconstitute republicanism, because we don't have republicanism anymore, we have trumpism. after the break, the president's trade deal is expected to get passed in the senate after the holiday break. but how does it differ from nafta, which he has called the worst trade deal ever made? that's next on "kcdc." "kcdc. [sneeze and sniffles]
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senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says a vote on the usmca will likely come after the impeachment trial. the house passed a trade agreement with a vote of 384 to 41. that may be a big win for president trump who is seen as nafta being the cornerstone of his campaign. great to have you with us, i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> president trump has been talking about tearing up nafta since the days of his campaign trail. how much does the usmca actually differ from nafta? >> not all that much, is the honest truth. there is a lot that stays the same. there are some important differences that we can get into those, but the most important thing that's happening here is that we don't lose nafta. he had made big threats to pull out of nafta if it wasn't renegotiated. that would have thrown the
economies of the united states, mexico and canada into disarray, and that risk is now gone. there is a trillion dollars of trade across north america, and we're actually not just trading goods but we're building products together, and so a disruption to that sort of supply chain, that system of production, would have been massively expensive. so what's achieved by getting usmca passed more than anything else is the protection of that system of production, the protection of those investments and removal of that threat from president trump. >> let's talk about the auto manufacturing base, if you will, for a moment. obviously the state of michigan was critical to the president's victory in 2016, but the congressional budget office predicts that the deal will cost automakers nearly $3 billion over the next 10 years. why would they be taking such a hit in this? >> auto industries are a really interesting example, because there are some changes in the agreement that tighten rules on content. basically you have to produce a larger portion of a car, use
more parts and materials from within north america, and especially within the united states and canada in order to meet the new rules of the usmca. well, that's actually good for auto workers in the united states. it wi itc, the international trade commission of the u.s. government, suggests there will be auto jobs created, but it comes at a cost of more expensive cars in north america because they now have to buy more expensive parts to create them. it comes at a cost to the overall economic growth and overall jobs in the u.s. economy. so a sort of specific win, but it comes at a pretty large costa cross the rest of the economy. >> give us really quickly the perspective on how if the senate passes, how the usmca will affect pharmaceuticalfarm s far part of his base. >> farmers are always on the
front lines when it comes to trade, trade conflict or even trade uncertainty. farmers in the united states have been hit by tariffs in canada and mexico in the past as they disputed over steel and aluminum tariffs. they've been hit by the chinese, they've been hit by europe. fam farmers have been hit left and right when it comes to their exploration. mexico and canada are among the most important markets for u.s. farmers. and then when we take a look at the pharmaceutical industry, the democrats actually achieved something that takes a little bit of a benefit that they were getting away from them. so the pharmaceutical industry was going to get a promise of a minimum of ten years of protection for biologic drugs, the international protection for them during that period, so this strips away that guarantee of six years. the law protects them already, but what democrats did, they gave them the space to
potentially in the future lower that level down, lower that number of years of protection in an attempt to try to get drugs to people faster and at lower prices. >> rick, let me get your thoughts on this. this is obviously one of the signature accomplishments of the trump administration so far once it does get approved by the senate and ultimately to his death for a signature. is this enough in 2020 for him to campaign and say he's delivered to american farmers or the automaking base? >> politically it's a big win, but democrats can also claim it's a big win because, as christopher was just saying, because of the autoworkers and christopher was just saying drug prices. but essentially, and i'll agree with christopher again, nafta was a release of the hardback and paperback with a few important changes to make it updated, but it's not really a significant step. it wasn't the worst deal in the world. in fact, nafta, i think, was a very good deal, and it made it
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kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ♪the beat goes on ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. askentrust your heart entresto for heto entresto. . while much of foreign policy of late has been focused on ukraine, one of the most controversial decisions by president trump was the move to withdraw 1,000 u.s. troops from the syrian border. >> turkey, syria. let them take care of it. let them take care of it. we want to bring our troops back home. it's been many, many years. it's been decades in many cases. we want to bring our troops back home. >> many feared the move would serve as an invitation for turkey to launch an offensive strike on the kurds who the u.s. have previously relied upon in the fight against isis.
that fear was, in fact, eventually realized. the president's decision was condemned from leaders of both parties with congress passing a bill placing economic sanctions on turkey. days later a cease-fire between syria and turkey was struck. that included the u.s. dropping the threat of those sanctions, but the controversy didn't stop president trump from inviting turkey's leader, erdogan, to the white house weeks later. and one person who books whknow it's like to be on the other side of erdogan is enes kanter. he can no longer return to the united states. the government revoked his visa in 2013 after he kept insulting erdogan. enes kanter joins me in boston. there is a lot to talk about, but first of all, explain to the viewers how you became a target of president erdogan.
>> it all started back in 2013. you know, president erdogan and his family was involved in a corruption, and i started talking about these issues six years ago, and just because i had a platform, when i say something, when i tweet something, it always becomes a conversation and it goes viral and they hate it. that's why i was talking about all the issues in turkey like we don't have no freedom, we don't have no democracy, an abuse of human rights. that's why when i talk about these issues, the turkish government hated it, and that's how i became a target. >> this year, as we just mentioned, the u.s. withdrew its forces from syria allowing the turkish government in the military to operate inside syria? a lot of people have criticized that from a human rights perspective. what was your reaction to that whole incident with the u.s.
withdrawing its troops but at the same time turkey maneuvering inside syria? >> right. i will just say this. of course, i'm not an expert of what's going on or whatever, but i feel like turkey should stop syria and turkey should definitely stop working with the isis-minded militia on the ground. and what's happened over there in syria is definitely human tragedy. there are lots of innocent women, innocent men, innocent kids are dying just because of what's going on over there, so it's definitely breaking my heart. >> what do you make of the overall u.s. policy towards your country? since you are somebody who follows it very closely, how would you -- >> right. >> -- react or comment on president trump's handling of policy towards turkey? >> of course, i mean, it's definitely sad that when i see the president of united states is meeting with the dictators like president erdogan because it just -- in the end, he -- i
mean, it's very sad because, first of all, don't get me wrong. i love my country. i love my people over there in turkey. but definitely what i see, the country i'm playing right now, where i earn my respect, where i earn my money and my life, the president of this country is working with and meeting with people like erdogan. definitely -- i have no words for it. >> let me play for you my interview with turkey's foreign minister. i recently met with him. >> right. >> i asked him about potential u.s. sanctions against turkey. here is what he said. >> right. >> sanctions and threatening language never worked. and u.s. should also understand -- and i think they did understand, and president trump is against sanction. but if there is a sanction coming from that, turkey has to reciprocate. this is for shafrure.
>> what would that look like? >> we don't want to speak on the worst scenario of our relations. we are trying to overcome through sanctions, through dialect, through understanding each other. i think in that case we will also have to consider. >> in your opinion, can turkey's international relations issues be solved with dialogue? or do you believe sanctions are required? >> right. you know, it feels like the past ten, whatever, 15 years, dialogue did not work. and, you know, i have been friends with lots of senators and congressmen and congress women. when i sit down and talk to them, they are telling me the only solution is going to solve this problem is sanctions. so i feel like if you put sanctions especially on erdogan and his family about his wealth, i feel like it's going to solve some of the problems. so i believe, yes, the sanctions can be, can be the solution. >> all right.
let me get your thoughts really quickly about your own personal situation here in the u.s. >> right. >> are you at all concerned that you could be extradited back to turkey? has it caused you to think about speaking out? >> i mean, what i heard about the extradition, i started laughing because if you look at -- i don't even have a parking ticket in the u.s. there are rules and laws, checks and balances in america. so that's why i don't believe it's going to happen because all i'm trying to do is trying to play basketball in nba and my second job is trying to be the human right activist and freedom fighter. so i don't think these are going to make me extradite back to turkey. when i hear that extradition word, it just -- the first thing comes to my mind is just they are scared. they are scared about -- of my voice. they are scared of, you know, the conversations i bring. so it doesn't matter what they say. it doesn't matter how they, you know, come up to me. my only thing is, you know, just
keep fighting for freedom. keep fighting for democracy and try to be "the voice" of all those innocent people who don't have one in turkey right now. >> i'm curious to get your thoughts on how the nba reacts to you speaking out. the nba doesn't have a good track record given what happened with china earlier this year and the controversy surrounding some of the players and executives. >> right. >> who were criticizing the chinese government on human rights. but has it had an impact on your career and your team? has the nba said to you, look, we need you to tone it down a little bit? >> so, i had a conversation with adam seibert twice and he texted my phone. and he said, he said to me, let us know if we can do anything for you. we got your back 100%. not just adam silver. the commissioner. you know, if you look at my coaches, my teammates, you know, all the fans, it just gives me got my back. you know. it's amazing to see i got a lot of support from my teammates.
we've been having this conversation in locker room, you know, almost every practice and they are telling me, let us know what can we do for you. so that's why it just gives me so much hope. it just gives me a lot to just see my teammates react to me this way. so, you know what, they know that i'm doing this for innocent people and no matter what, they got my back. >> do you think, really quickly, do you think other nba players should be vocal in speaking out about human rights around the world, whether it is turkey or china? >> you know what, because -- when you say human rights, it's for innocent people. it's for people who don't have a voice. so not just in turkey. you know, i'm from turkey. but if i see something wrong in any country in the world, i will go out there and speak about it because it's just being a good human. and you -- just because god gives you this platform so i can
have others' back. so yes, i feel like more people -- not just basketball players. you know, actors, singers, rappers, if you have a platform, i feel like you need to talk about these issues because you have millions fans, million people idolizing you. so i feel like, yes, they should definitely say something about it. >> enes kanter, thank you so much for your time. wish you the best of luck with the boston celtics. i appreciate it. >> i appreciate it. thank you guys. thank you for inviting me. >> we have more to come in the next hour of "kasie d.c." we're going to break down some of the key moments that have shaped the race for president for 2020. it's been a head spinning whip latch, those stories and much more when we return. more when we return. to put on our website? i mean i would have but i'm a commercial vehicle so i don't have hands... or a camera...or a website. should we franchise? is the market ready for that? can we franchise? how do you do that? meg! oh meg! we should do that thing where you put the business cards in the fishbowl and somebody wins something. -meg: hi. i'm here for... i'm here for the evans' wedding.
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welcome back to "kasie d.c." i'm aman m. we're over a month from the iowa caucuses. we want to look at the moments that shaped the 2020 campaign thus far. in 2019, a flood of candidates entered the race including senator kamala harris who made things official in front of a 20,000 large crowd audience. through the spring, more than a dozen additional canned datsz would join the field including former vice-president joe biden who topped the polls immediately. with front runner status came, as you can imagine, a lot of attacks like this one from senator harris in the very first debate. >> it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of
two united states senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country. there was a little girl in california who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bussed to school every day. and that little girl was me. >> soon after that, billionaire tom steyer would join the field, pumping millions into his campaign and sparking a debate over buying access to the race. as the summer turned to fall, elizabeth warren rose overtaking biden in some polls, october 2nd the bernie sanders campaign announced the senator had undergone emergency heart surgery. he'd be back on the debate stage less than two weeks later and has risen to the top of many polls since. in late november, another billionaire michael bloomberg would jump in and start spending millions of his own. in december would see senator harris leave the race. mayor pete buttigieg gained momentum in the early nominating
states and top tier candidates sharpening their attacks against him. >> i think the mayor -- looking for somebody who doesn't need job training. >> i am not the first person to talk about this range of policy options. neither is the vice-president. naturally, being a little bit biased, i believe that my plan is the best plan. and i think voters increasingly view that as the case, too. >> i'm very glad that mr. buttigieg is worried that i have been too easy on upper income people. i happen to believe that when you talk about programs like social security, like health care, like higher education, they should be universal. >> unlike some candidates for the democratic nomination, i am not counting on republican politicians having an ee punxsutawney phil epiphony. >> under joe's plan we retain
the status quo. >> that's not true. >> so, the mayor just recently had a fund-raiser that was held in a wine cave full of crystals and served $900 a bottle wine. think about who comes to that. >> i have not denigrated your experience as a local official. i have been one. i just think you should respect our experience. >> you actually did denigrate my experience, senator. it was before the break and i was going to let it go because we got bigger fish to fry here. >> now, as we take the wide view of 2019, it is clear that some things have changed, like the diversity on the debate stage and some things have stayed pretty much the same. joe biden still nationally leads basically where it was this time last year. and with that i'd like to welcome in my panel. with me on set, author of the washington post's power up newsletter, jackie. national security correspondent for politico and msnbc contributor natasha bertrand.
and adrian is back. survey the 2020 field for us, where it began january 2019 and where we are ending this year. how do you -- how do you rate the candidates so far generally and what do you say is the driving force in terms of the central issue? >> well, i still think the central issue of this entire primary, the main core issue that's driving the decision makers is health care. and that's really what -- it tends to be the dividing policy line between, you know, the progressives and the moderates in this party. i think one of the biggest take aways we observed and learned over the course of the last year is that if you're running to win the democratic nomination, democratic primary, you can have it both ways in the sense -- you can't straddle that lane between being progressive and moderate. you have to pick a lane and go with it. we saw kamala harris straddle having it both ways on health care. and she ultimately lost a lot of support and she had to drop out of the race. but we've seen bernie sanders
really lean into medicare nor all. he's made it clear he's not wavering on this position. that is where he stands. and his numbers have not only held up. he's increased his size over the course of the last two months. we see elizabeth warren who came out a few weeks ago and said actually i would allow people to keep their private health insurance who like it. she has dropped a little bit. the bottom line is you've got to pick a lane and stick with it. joe biden has done a great job of articulating his support for obama-era policies. and again, you see the leader on the progressive side, bernie sanders who has really made it clear that he supports an array of progressive policies. it's really hard to have it both ways. that's the biggest take away that i see from this year and i think that's going to be the biggest, you know, the biggest debate that we have going forward as the primary process starts in february of 2020. >> jackie, let me pickup on that point as well and ask you what is the biggest take away for you as 2019 comes to an end and 2020
kind of heats up on the presidential front? >> yeah, well, there's two things. and actually you touched upon both of those during that montage of moments during this past long year. piggybacking on what adrienne said. it begins with the moment that on that debate stage when kamala harris attacked joe biden over his position on bussing. and, you know, that was obviously a very big break out moment for her. she has since dropped out of the race, but i think what it really did overall was point out that joe biden might not be the inevitable front runner. he might not be the nominee and that there actually was a lot of space in this race. and it sort of underscored a lot of his perceived weaknesses that maybe he would not be able -- would not be prepared to take on donald trump in a general election. and even now we are 50 days out from the new hampshire primary and voters are still really undecided. you saw a bunch of candidates have their break out moments
just in this last debate and go up in the polls . >> right. speaking of joe biden, let me play you guys this sound bite really quickly him addressing the need to restore integrity. watch this. >> you know, we need to restore the integrity of the presidency, of the office of the presidency. and it's about time we get that underway. my job, and i think the job of all of us up here, is to, in fact -- well, that's not true. some are going to be actually voting in the senate. my job is to go out and make the case why he doesn't deserve to be president of the united states for another four years. >> natasha, let me bring you into this and widen the conversation out a little bit, specifically on the issue of impeachment and investigation and burisma and hunter biden. it has obviously become a rallying cry for republicans, president this, rudy giuliani. has the investigation changed so far in a way that could potentially impact -- when i say investigation, i'm talking about the giuliani investigation, what he's doing in terms of going after joe biden and his family. has that in any way, shape or
form affected how 2020 plays out in the year ahead? >> yeah, i think we have yet to see because members of congress, particularly lindsey graham in the senate, they have asked the state department, for example, for more information on joe biden and his dealings in ukraine while he was president, et cetera. so they are still conducting this, this investigation into what he and his son were doing vis-a-vis ukraine while he was vice-president. whether or not that actually weakens him, though, is debatable because joe biden has very artfully, i think if you talk to many strategists, avoided giving this conspiracy theory any oxygen. some might say that he needs to address it a little more forcibly, but he has made it a point to avoid giving any attention to the idea that he acted inappropriately while he was vice-president. repeatedly, the people who testified during the impeachment process said that joe biden
while the optics might not have been good of his son being on the board of this gas company in ukraine while the vice-president was in charge, essentially, of ukraine policy under the obama administration, nothing was done that was illegal in a way it might have been ill legal for the president to solicit a bribe from the ukrainian president, which he, you know, allegedly did according to democrats in the summer in his phone calls. so that is a point he has emphasized here. i think the biggest inflection point or one of them, anyway, in the 2020 race is yet to come when the 2020 race collides with the impeachment inquiry, with senators who are running, having to go back and participate in the senate trial. we don't know when that trial is going to take place. but it's certainly going to be potentially fascinating moment for the senators to have their break-out moments ahead of the election. >> jackie, i'm curious to get your thoughts. how large of a shadow will impeachment cast, not just on the logistics of campaigning but as a central issue for voters? do voters of the democratic base
care where these senators are coming down on the issue of impeachment? >> well, as the recent washington post abpoll showed, democrats, overwhelming majority, support impeaching donald trump. so it is important for i think these candidates to be firm on that matter. as we saw at this past debate, candidates are approaching this in very different ways. you have elizabeth warren focusing on the corruption aspect of this. then you have people like andrew yang who are more focusing on the facts there are structural problems and not focusing on impeaching and impeaching donald trump is not going to solve all those problems. as natasha said, it is going to be problematic for senators sitting on the bench listening in silence. senators are not allowed to speak during these testimonies. and not out there on the campaign trail. it also could rile hurt people like senator amy klobuchar who are just finally seeing a bump in their polling. so, you know, that also could be part of nancy pelosi's calculus
to maybe withhold these articles until perhaps after the new hampshire primary or after the caucuses. >> interesting. adrienne elrod, thank you so much. the year in climate change to rising sea levels, historic flooding and some of the hottest days on record. but first the sobering images that made us stop and think about house the u.s. government is handling immigration. "kasie d.c." is back after this. in a world where everything gets a sequel. it's finally time for... geico sequels! classic geico heroes, starring in six new commercials, with jaw-dropping savings. vote for your favorites at: geico.com/sequels ahhh, which way do i go?! i don't know, i'm voting for our sequels. with geico, the savings keep on going to a screen near you. not the leg! you dang woodchucks! geico sequels. vote and enter to win today!
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comes to mind when thinking about 2019 and u.s. immigration policy. it is an image that is still hard to look at, so we want to warn you before we show it to you. oscar alberto martino ramirez was frustrated because his family from el salvador could not request asylum. he attempted to cross the river in june with his daughter virginia letter i can't. he was able to make it across the river and set valeria across the river bank to get his wife. the little girl panicked, got into the water and the current swept them away. the office of inspector general published these photos in a report and described poor conditions and overcrowding at the rio grande valley migrant facility. one senior manager called the situation a, quote, ticking time bomb. and while the number of migrant families crossing the southwest border were at record highs for the 2019 fiscal year, new asylum policies were also enacted, including one called the remain in mexico policy.
that policy has kept more than 60,000 central americans in mexico as they wait for their day in court, hoping to come to the united states. joining me now from washington, d.c. to break it all down is nbc news correspondent covering the departments of justice and homeland security, excuse me, julia ainsley. julia, good to have you with us. walk us through this remain in mexico policy and how it has developed throughout the year. >> so this is one of the kia si key asylum policy in large part because immigrants are giving up. they're coming to the border to claim their legal right for asylum. and rather than staying in the united states until their court date, which sometimes can be one or two years into the future, they're being sent back into mexico where they wait in sometimes what are dangerous condition ands tent camps until they are bussed back across the border for their day in court. but the day in court doesn't look like how it normally would. these are tent facilities most of the time where they are teleconferencing with judges who
are elsewhere in the country. it makes it a lot harder. preside the translators are also teleconferenced. lawyers want access to the facilities so they can see, make sure due process is being followed, and the trump administration isn't giving them access. we understand asylum is granted at a far lower rate for the immigrants sent back across the border than those who would come under a normal process. a lot of them are giving up. they're having to go back to their home countries because they say it's too dangerous for them to wait in mexico and try to come in the legal way. >> i know that by a lot of accounts certainly human rights organization ands others say that the trump administration has tried to make it more difficult for immigrants to be eligible for asylum. walk us through what efforts they are undertaking trying to suppress asylum seekers from coming into this country. >> the remain in mexico policy was the most successful, but it seemed like over this year we saw the trump administration
throw one new idea after another at the wall to see what would stick, what would actually be let through in the courts. and so far remain in mexico has been allowed to stay, although there have been some challenges. it still could be challenged further. but other policies include agreements that the department of homeland security and the trump administration made with central american countries that basically said anyone who comes through these countries like el salvador, honduras, guatemala, mexico, need to get asylum there. if they don't get asylum in those countries, they shouldn't be eligible in the united states. the only one that seems to have stuck so far is guatemala. as we understand, only about four people have been deported to guatemala. those would be people from el salvador and honduras who would have passed through guatemala on their way to the united states. but sometimes -- this is where it's really tricky as reporters. you want to report on every single policy that is rolled out, but sometimes you wonder if there is more bark than bite. sometimes, for example, with
that policy, you know, we covered every iteration of the agreement. how this would affect asylum seekers. and then when i went back to ask i.c.e. how many people have you deported? for a long time the answer was zero. so they'll have these policies in place, but they don't actually implement them right away for a number of logistical reasons or court challenges. also a lot of people might say these policies are designed to scare immigrants. they aren't actually going forward with them. >> jackie, there's been a lot of turnover at the department of homeland security. three secretaries over the past year. one nominated by the president, others acting. i'm curious to get your thoughts as to why there is such upheaval at the department of homeland security. this has become one of the more controversial departments in the united states right now. >> yeah, and i think a large part of this is due to the fact that the secretaries have not carried out the president's orders or wishes in the manner that the president would have liked. you know, there have been, as julia said, a lot of spaghetti thrown at the wall, but there
also have been, you know, policies enacted that are going to be a lasting part of the trump administration's legacy. from the child separation policy to the fact that the administration next year is only going to allow in 18,000 refugees resetled into the u.s., the lowest number in history. there has been this wchasm what they want hence the amount of volatility we've seen in staff turnover. >> natasha, this has been a significant issue for the president, particularly the issue of building the border wall and who will pay for it as he continued to say mexico. that has not been the case over the past several years. is 2020 likely to see immigration, both on the presidential side, president trump side as well as the democratic field side, be an issue that gets voters out to the polls? >> i definitely think that trump is going to try to make it an issue, right, to galvanize his base. and that, of course, is going to
be one of the main things he focuses ongoing into the election. it's important to remember also this is not necessarily something he wants to draw attention to. because despite diverting billions of dollars from the pentagon, military programs, training afghan security sfoerss, providing military clinics to military families, expand missile defense in alaska, things like that. he has not built a singular new linear mile of boarder wall since he took office. that is remarkable. there's been a lot of construction done on certain portions of the fence. the wall that, you know, previous presidents have -- had already erected. but he has not gotten this signature promise done. and now the record number of vacancies at d.h.s. because so many top officials are not willing to carry out some of his more cruel policies, frankly, being spearheaded by stephen miller, an advisor to him, who has now, according to recent emails, been shown to have sympathies and ties directly to
white supremacist ideology. it doesn't seem like trump is going to, you know, want to necessarily focus on this issue, but he will, of course -- he's not necessarily known for being the most truthful person in the world so i imagine he will continue to tout successes that haven't necessarily materialized during his tenure. >> all right, guys. stay with me. julia ainsley, thank you for your reporting on this. when we return, 2019 was a record-breaking year for all the wrong reasons when it comes to climate change. we're going to take a look back at the amazon wildfires and catastrophic flooding taking place around the world. i've always loved seeing what's next.
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we'll have a, an economy based on wind. i never understood wind. i know windmills very much. i studied it better than anybody. they're very expensive. they're made in china and germany. very few made here, almost none. but they're manufactured, tremendous if you're into this. tremendous fumes, gases are
spewing into the atmosphere. you know we have a world, right? so the world is tiny compared to the universe. so tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. you talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the it's going into the air. it's our air, their air, everything. >> that was president trump trying to explain wind mills and greenhouse gases one week ago tonight. meanwhile, july holds the record for the hottest month ever recorded on earth. and in august, iceland held a funeral for the country's first glacier lost to global warming. on the other side of the world, the amazon started burning. meanwhile, sea levels rose leading to record flooding world wide. venice, italy, was left reeling from the worst flooding the city has experienced in years. the venetian council voted against a measure to fight against climate change.
one of the leading faces in the climate fight, 16-year-old greta thunberg being named time magazine's person of the year. joining me from washington, d.c., "the new york times" energy and policy reporter, coral davenport. great to have you with us this evening. let's talk about these issues. climate change got a spot in some of the most recent democratic debates with about 13 minutes and a strong discussion by the candidates to try to flesh out their positions on it. what are these positions on policy, including rejoining the paris climate agreement that president trump is pulling the u.s. out of say about shift in climate change awareness in this country and in this race? >> well, it's really fascinating, aman. i've covered climate change, politics and policy for over ten years and i have to say every in every single presidential race, midterm race, i've geared up and gotten ready. this is the time we'll see climate change breakthrough.
and it never has. it's just never been a central issue in, in a national race. and for the first time ever we are finally seeing that. as you say, the candidates have put forth incredibly aggressive policies. joe biden sort of the classic moderate has put forward a plan to zero out u.s. carbon emissions in the next 30 years. that is honestly a radical proposal drawn straight from the green new deal. and so -- and we've seen, as you said, climate change getting a lot more time in the debates than we've ever seen. we've seen candidates competing to have the most aggressive climate change plan. and we've seen as you said, greta thunberg the activist on the time magazine. protests around the world. what is that telling us? one thing that's really changed just in the last four years is what's called attribution science. we now have science on the ground saying the impacts of climate change, the flooding,
the heat waves, the food loss and the sea level rise are not something that are going to happen in the future. they're measurably happening now, and they are affecting people's lives. they are peaking people's pocketbooks. they're affecting industry. and that, i think, has been a big part of the change. >> we are also living in an age right now as you very well know where one side is living in a climate change denial type of mode. it is something that is constantly touted in certain media in this country. as you mention, there is a big push among young activists to try to have this a central issue in our politics, in our policy. how do you think politicians and the country in general, having a discourse, when one side is not even acknowledging the crises and the problems? is this one of those you try to find middle ground type of approaches or does one side just need to plow through if they can with the policies to try and save the planet? >> well, this is, this is an issue that has become so intensely politicized, so
intensely polarized as you've said. and we have a president -- and thus the leader of the republican party -- who openly mocks the established science of human-cause climate change. so what do you do with that? i think that there's a debate going on among policy makers and in the activist community. i think there's a large group in this kind of activist far left community that says we're no longer going to try for middle ground. we're just going to plow through and fundamentally try to remake the economy. on the other hand, if you look at polls about americans' views on the issue of climate change, we divide it up by age. broadly, the u.s. broadly is still pretty split between how democrats and republicans approach the issue of climate change. but younger republicans, particularly republicans under age 35 who have grown up being taught climate science in the same way that they're taught, you know, smoking is bad for
you, this is just a thing. a larger number of younger republicans are sort of saying, you know, even if i identify as politically conservative, this is just a basic fact and i want to see my leaders address it. and i don't see it as, you know, as a -- >> polarizing issue, yeah. >> or a fact to be questioned. >> right. >> so i do think we're starting to see some -- you know, i can say that behind the scenes certainly some republicans in washington acknowledge this and will talk about it. you do not see them anywhere near, you know, getting up and getting onto the mics on capitol hill saying we need to do something. >> as a journalist, rate for us the trump administration as someone who reports on the facts, because he obviously touts himself as being pro environment. he always touts his administration, what it has done. on one hand he promotes his deregulation of fisheries and all that stuff that works for the economy, but he also says that we have clean water, we have clean air, blah, blah, blah, he also kind of says he's nz going to do anything that
disadvantages the american economy vis-a-vis towards other countries. as a journalist, rate for us how the administration has performed on the topic of climate change so far. where would you put him? what has he done? >> well, the biggest things that this administration has done are to very systematically move forward with undoing, rolling back and repealing the main climate change -- the only climate change policies that the united states ever had in place. under the obama administration, the epa put out -- the united states first-ever climate change policies. one to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from cars, and the other one to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from, from coal-fired power plants. president trump has made it a center pe center piece of his deregulatory agenda to do that. the trump administration's own
analysis found that rolling back those rules on coal-fired power plants are louing more co2 from coal plants into the air, could actually lead to the deaths of about a 1400 more people a year. and that is something that that's both a human impact, bull that does translate into an impact on the economy as well. >> coral davenport, thank you for your reporting. still to come, tech talk. scrutiny on tech companies as they combat the spread of disinformation and fake news. "kasie d.c." back after this. ."s i don't have time for pretreating. what even is this? it looks like cheese but it smells like barf. with tide pods, you don't need to worry. the pre-treaters are built in. so you just toss them in before the clothes. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice!
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in 2019, the spotlight on big tech got even brighter. and the tension between congress and facebook seemed to come to a head during an october hearing in which mark zuckerberg struggled to defend his company's policy on political ads. >> under your policy, you know, using census data as well, could i pay to target predominantly black zip codes and advertise them the incorrect election date? >> no, congresswoman, you couldn't. we have, even for these policies around the news worthiness of content that politicians say and the general principle that i believe that -- >> but you said you're not going to fact check my ads. would i be able to run advertisements on facebook targeting republicans in primaries saying they voted for the green new deal? if you're not fact checking
political advertisements, i'm trying to understand the bounds here, political gain. >> i don't know the answer off the top of my head a. >> so you don't know if i'll be able to do that. >> i think probably. >> twitter c.e.o. jack dorsey took the opposite approach to all this banning all political ads on his platform citing the viral spread of disinformation is a new challenge to our democracy. in 2019 we also saw the rise of deep fake videos making it increasingly difficult to separate reality from the computer generated. joining me now to unpack all of this is dylan bier, for nbc news and msnbc. dylan, good to have you with us. let's talk about the different approaches between twitter and facebook. how do you see facebook's refusal to fact check political ads in the lead up to the 2020 election? >> obviously that didn't play very well in washington, given the tape you just showed. i think this is a really complicated issue and i think that that juxtaposition between the way facebook handled this and the way twitter handled this
made twitter seem like they were taking the appropriate step and being responsible in a way that facebook wasn't. once you actually unpacked the policy that twitter put into place, it became clear that the issue is a lot more complicated than i think facebook's critics initially understood. there's actually a lot of criticism from democrats, including elizabeth warren, to how banning all political advertising was going to help entrench powers like, say, president trump and corporations, and was going to hurt smaller grassroots organizations that relied on the new reach that social media platforms have given them. so from terms of how this plays up to the 2020 election, look, facebook is still considering potential tweaks to the policy. but fundamentally, they are not going to ban political advertising and they are not -- they do not want to be in the business of fact checking every single ad that every single candidate puts out. but there are areas where they can sort of make exceptions and
do certain thing where the lines are a little more clear-cut. one of those things, for instance, is census data. anything that basically tries to misinform voters to skew the census which would therefore have a very negative effect on our elections, that's an area where facebook can say, there's no gray line here and we're willing to step up and combat those ads. but once you get into the business of deciding the truth of every single statement that every single politician makes, it gets very murky. so it's going to be, in the world of political advertising, it's going to be a murky cycle. there are going to be people who try and sort of stretch the rules. and facebook is going to have to do what it has always tried to do, which is adapt in real time. >> you brought up elizabeth warren. let me play for you this sound bite about her talking about big tech. watch. >> look, here's how i see it. you can run the platform. that is, you can be the umpire in the baseball game, and you
can run an honest platform. or you can be a player. that is, you can have a business or you can have a team in the game. but you don't get to be the umpire and have a team in the game. >> jackie, are we likely to see an appetite among members on capitol hill to tackle the issue of social media in the elections? there's been talk about trying to potentially break up big tech companies or trying to regulate it to some extent. is that likely in 2020? >> well, it's interesting because this year i think is really the year that members of congress sort of had a wake up call about the influence of big tech and how detrimental that could be to potentially our election cycle. it doesn't -- congress is moving forward in the right direction. as dylan pointed out, there have been antitrust investigations, journalism from nbc news and the washington post specifically have been incorporated in some of those hearings. you've also seen hearings and investigations into facial
recognition technology. so you're seeing members of congress really get in the weeds on these issues. whether or not they can act quickly and in time for the 2020 election is a different story. i mean, one moment that really stands out to me from this year was during the mueller investigation. you know, i think the take away from that was not -- the biggest take away and perhaps the most important take away was not that robert mueller didn't recommend or decline to recommend whether or not the president should be impeached, it but that he said the russians are still meddling in our elections. they're doing it as we sit here. and, you know, that was, again, another reminder that there is -- there are a lot of different things at play here. and all of them are colliding on social media. when it comes to interference in u.s. elections. >> yeah, and do that point, natasha, to jackie's point about the mueller investigation, we know by a lot of u.s. security assessments that the russians and now maybe the chinese, perhaps even the iranians have exposed some of our vulnerabilities in our elections and intend to do so in 2020.
>> yeah, exactly what i as going to say, just russians any more. they are very good at this, but it is also other foreign adversaries who are trying to exploit divisions in our society and put out content that is going to galvanize voters to vote a particular way or another, not just in favor of trump and the gop, but also in favor of democrats or also to suppress the vote, et cetera. this is a general effort to create chaos. in 2016 the russians had a very targeted campaign that was aimed at helping trump win. there wasn't that kind of targeted -- there may have been an attempt, but there was no successful targeted campaign, according to u.s. intelligence officials, in 2018 during the midterm elections by foreign adversaries. in 2020, though, trump is going to be on the ballot again, so there may be yet another concerted effort by foreign adversaries to try to meddle in that election as well. and we're already seeing it
happen, right. we're already seeing the russians pushing this narrative that ukraine interfered in 2016. that joe biden has murky ties to ukraine. that he acted corruptly, et cetera. the russians are still behind all of this disinformation and it's really going to be up to partnerships between the law enforcement community, the fbi and social media companies, facebook, twitter, google, et cetera, so monitor this stuff and to make sure that it doesn't get out of control like it did in 2016. >> all right. dylan buyers, thank you very much for your reporting. natasha, thank you for everything. coming up, president trump's decision to pull troops out of northern syria were seen by many as a complete abandonment of the u.s. ally. while kurdish forces continue to fight there, there is a particular group of the kurds a film maker believed needed more recognition. the female fighters. we're going to talk to her about that project next.
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displacing kurds and repopulating it with arabs. what do you say to that charge that -- >> should i be diplomatic to answer this question or -- >> i think you should speak as frankly as possible because these are serious allegations that turkey is trying to to say nonsense. why? so the people from this region who are in turkey or in other neighboring countries as well as northern iraq should be able to go back to their home. when these people go back to their home, it is a democratic engineering? and there are 350,000 syrians, syrian kurds in turkey, among 2.3 million syrian refugees. so if these syrian kurds are able to go back to their homes, is it demographic engineering in favor of kurds. even should be able to go back
to their homes. if they don't have any home left behind, if they're demolished, then we need to build the new ones for them for the ones who are returning. who did the demographic engineering? everybody is blaming that the area that we enter the predominantly kurdish era. >> more of my interview with turkey's foreign minister. it's been more than two months since president trump announced that troops would withdraw from northern syria. turkish forces invaded, and that chaos has not stopped. american commanders are scrambling to protect their forces by military units from turkey, russia, iran and the syrian government as well as their proxy forces. they see these armed groups as a danger they were sent to fight.
the u.s. troop withdrawal looked at by many as an abandonment of kurdish forces was looked at in a new film called "sisters in arms." >> you will find independence without them. >> now, while the kurds have been recognized for their work with fighting with isis, one journalist believed ones a second of the forces needed more exposure, the female fighting brigades. this is the fictional movie based on their fighting. it is great to have you here onset. an incredible movie that foreshadows some of the real-world developments.
let's talk about this movie because you actually visited some of the kurdish area. >> yes, actually. partly the movie has been shot in morocco with a very proficient team of cinema. but, yes, i had the great honor to dircet. i wanted americans to see the faces and the story of the true heroes who fought for us. so i added them in the editing of the movie, yes. >> what did you learn from them when you were so up close with them? what did you walk away from it with? >> the movie is based on this very dramatic narrative, which is really true, that the jihadists were terrified of being killed by the hand of a m wo. when i started to write the script, i was not sure it was
from a spy movie. i had to ask, is it really true they are in a panic when you are hearing them in front of you. sometimes i think this sound would indicate that it is woman in front of them on the battlefield. are they really in a panic? and actually they confirmed to me that, yes, they were really terrified by being killed by them because in their imagination the thought it would deprive them from getting to heaven. >> one of the aspects of the movie that actually ended up happening because the betrayal of the kurds by the u.s. decision to abandon them which led the turkish military and militias to go in there and attack them. what made you anticipate that in writing a fictional movie? what made you think that in fact the u.s. coalition would abandon the kurds once again? >> actually i wrote that dialogue that you just shown more than three years ago.
i was answered by the fact that once the war will be over against isis, the world would want to forget what the brave kurdish fighters and the brave female fighters have done for us because it is almost always the case in history. >> that the kurds are abandoned. >> yes. but honestly, i could not, even a fighter could not have predicted the way that they have been betrayed. >> did they themselves tell you the u.s. was going to abandon them or betray them? >> honestly, i didn't imagine that kind of betrayal. no, it was -- this decision is so, so unfair and so irresponsible, it -- i really think that donald trump has assembled all the critical ingredients to ignite the next war, to create where the next
generation of jihadists is already -- i mean, is going to born from that decision. it will create new terrorist attacks probably in europe, maybe also in america. i mean, it is just the beginning. we are realizing slowly how this decision will impact our future. >> "sisters in arms" is available for viewing in europe now. it will be available on a streaming platform soon in the united states. united states. they're walking into a trap. your orders are to deliver a message calling off tomorrow's attack. if you fail we will lose sixteen hundred men. your brother among them. we need to keep moving. come on! there's only one way this war ends. last man standing.
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that does it for us tonight. kasie herself will be back with you next week and next year from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. for now good night from new york. this is an msnbc special presentation. health care in america. it is a bit like a bad x, you know the one that never treated you right but you will still call in an emergency? even with obamacare, 30 million americans still don't have health insurance and many of those who do are struggling to pay for it. did we not do this right? what kind of nation claims to keep its citizens safe but has no plan for them if they, say, fall off a horse. >> i'm not your typical journalist. i've got